The Sun asks: “Should gay people be cabinet ministers?”
From the paper which warned you that a “gay mafia” was running the country.
By George Eaton Published 01 June 2010 16:26
David Laws's resignation prompted many thoughtful pieces on why, in this more tolerant age, a respected politician felt the need to conceal his sexuality. But today's Sun has no time for such liberal hand-wringing. Instead, the red-top runs a poll asking: "Should gay people be cabinet ministers?"
It isn't the fear that some Sun editors believe that gays should be barred from the cabinet that troubles me (they surely don't); it's the fact that the paper views this as a legitimate and worthwhile debate.
There is no reason why Laws's fate should lead anyone to question whether gay people should be in the cabinet. Gay politicians -- including Chris Smith, Nick Brown, Ben Bradshaw and Peter Mandelson -- have all served with distinction in the past 13 years.
By the Sun's logic, were a Jewish minister to resign, we would be compelled to ask: "Should Jewish people be cabinet ministers?"
There is, of course, an unhappy precedent for this sort of thing. It was the Sun that, in 1998, demanded: "Tell us the truth Tony: are we being run by a gay mafia?" This after Blair's cabinet was found to contain, fairly unremarkably, four gay ministers. David Yelland, the then editor of the paper, has since revealed that he was "horrified" by the headline, which was written in his absence.
Twelve years on, after the introduction of civil partnerships, the repeal of Section 28, the equalisation of the age of consent and the legalisation of gay adoption, it's disturbing that Britain's biggest-selling paper still treats gay people as if they're second-class citizens.
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64 comments
That's enough, little Timmy... umm, I mean Abdul. Your Asbo doesn't start til 6pm so why don't you head down to the dole queue and pick up our giro. This house needs a new copy of the Sun for you to read and for me to use as bog-roll, which is far more expensive in this economic downturn. And stop bringing your poor sister Untermenschen into your squalid arguments. I've told her before you can't have her. It's immoral. So stop taking it out on people here who are high-brow enough to not call you an attention-seeking cow-rimmer.
Examples of Abdul's non-fibs:
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/mehdi-hasan/2010/05/labour-lib-coaliti...
15 May 2010 at 15:14
"Michael Hesseltine (sic), Simon Hughes, David Dimbly (sic) just looked at you as if you are just a savage."
16 May 2010 at 12:36
"And Medhi was just a rude bad mannered savage . "
Not that it matters - your last comment just raised the bar of boorishness.
Let the Sun shine through !
Christ! Does Abdul the pig ever go home?!
Perhaps you should commission a poll asking if Sun readers should be allowed to vote.
Didn't J.S. Mill have some concerns about extending the franchise to the ill informed masses / Sun readers?
Up to a point. There may well be a legitimate charge against the way in which the question has been put and reported, or even the motivation for it.
But are we sure about that? I would have thought that both YouGov and the Sun would have been very aware, from the existing public attitudes information, that this would give a "tolerant" outcome: "bigots in small majority". And it is worth knowing how many people are outside that broad consensus, before we all declare that homophobia has been eradicated entirely from the land.
So it is surely legitimate to ask questions in opinion surveys which quantify prejudice. It is enormously valuable that the British Social Attitudes survey does so. For example, as a result of that, we have a very useful finding about the inter-generational dynamics of prejudice. Similarly opinion poll findings about the prevalence of prejudice are useful sources of information for public debate too, though a caveat about how such questions are asked and reported may well be legitimate.
I cannot believe that the Sun could have asked that question! It beggars belief in this day and age. And its o good blaming it on the readers. Sun readers are not to be trusted. Sundar has mentioned some prominent open gay Labour Ministers. We obviouly don't know of the many many previous gay closet Tory Cabinet Members. And that is the point. Be open in future, or forget about it. That is David Laws' Crime. As well as cheating on his expenses.
@swatantra
Not wishing to reveal your sexuality is not a crime and it has yet to be proven if he did "cheat on his expenses"
Handy as it is to work ourselves up about the appallingly unintelligent content of Murdoch's cheapest rag, let's not forget that even the dear old lefty BBC is not above this sort of question:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/dec/16/bbc-africa-have-your-say
If this morning's poll says something about The Sun, what does this say about the BBC?
I'd hope The Sun's poll was trying to explore the factors that might lead someone like David Laws to feel compelled to hide his sexuality. I can't think what the BBC could have been up to.
There are certain arse hats that post regularly on this site who seem intent on treating any debate as a dirty protest.
I dread to think if The Sun were to have a Comments Section following this poll?
It would be like staring into the abyss of humanity - and we all know what Nietzsche had to say about that.
Like your first comment Bill Kristol-Balls, well said. Disagree with your second one though, I think the change in his utility and maintenance charges speak volumes as to before receipts needed and after, I also think by his offering to return the money and by his admission that he is in a relationship with the said landlord that he actually did 'cheat on his expenses'
This poll of theirs is highly prejudiced and bigoted. Would they dare - or even be allowed - to publish a poll entitled 'should black or asian people be in the cabinet'? What makes them think they can ask the same question of gays?
silly mistake - I meant "bigots in small minority"
It just tells you what sun readers are like. A lot of people in this country still hate gays. In schools they make fun of gays more than any other type of person. If publically people do not say it, you will find privately and when the public-eye is not on them they will say many offensive things about gays. It's a reality and you cannot sweep it under the carpet.
Wow.
Heterosexuals yet again prove themselves to be hateful bigots toward the very gay people that heterosexuals themselves created.
I've never heard anything quite like it before. Someone should alert the press.
Morality indeed, heterosexuals.
Morality.
Indeed.
Interestingly, Laws says that he didn't join the Tories in the first place because of section 28 ... but even more interestingly, he is reported to have dismissed completely the information that the structural deficit was already 7 billion less than projected.
I'm really tired and nauseated by the distraction of whether or not, his gayness has deprived the country of his genius. The significant thing is that this ex-JP Morgan 'loadsa money' has put people on the dole queue unnecessarily, when the coalition's own propaganda, was that there was only a need for a 6 billion cut. Laws shares the banker class's frame of reference... and that was the one which put us into paying for their financial crisis. I for one am glad to see him go and hope the coalition follows as quickly as possible.
Abdul says - 'Every comment dripping in acid, laced with venom, caked in poison'
Is this a self appraisal?
The arse hat has landed!
(Stroking imaginary white cat) We've been expecting you Mr. Hassan.
Interesting read here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jun/01/sun-poll-gay-cabinet...
Sadly I still have to concur with Baig. I'm afraid those with a more metropolitan outlook are reticient to see beyond the results of BSA surveys.
Homophobia is still rife in places where a small town mentality persists - I have to live in such an area.
It's laughable; I've just picked up the paper after a hard day's graft (with more to be done yet in my own unpaid time); no mention of the fiddling fraudster, Laws who stole £40,000 of my money. And yet there's plenty to be said about other, apparently more interesting, stories over how MP's such as Cameron get paid way less than public service chiefs. How my heart bleeds for them all! They are all so hard done by! What's more; there is then a very misleading reference to how you can apparently claim £26,000 a year in Housing Benefit in London as though it's representative of typical claims which exist Nationwide; well I can assure you it isn't. The media is so one sided! Can't see how on earth the gutter snipe Sun were even allowed to conduct such a poll in this day and age? They'd have been better asking: 'Now, what's your take on fraudulent cheats being fit to govern?
Yes, I agree that the Sun poll is shocking. Anyone care to comment on the BBC one?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/dec/16/bbc-africa-have-your-say
Would anyone expect anything different from the poor excuse for cutting down trees?
http://redrag1.blogspot.com/2010/06/red-rag-scum-plunges-new-depths-over...
Abdul - yeah, why should we bother to attempt to view Africa as a huge and diverse place with corresponding gulfs of opinion?
After all, it's much easier to denounce a whole continent as being populated by ignoble savages who aren't so keen on anal love.
Abdul, I do not believe for one moment that you love the New Statesman, at every turn you try to put it down not with reasoned argument or discussion but just your crass one finger typing one liners. I see that you are so insecure that you have to refer to yourself as the real one god forbid that there where two of you, and would anyone in their right mind want to say that they where you I think not.
Only you can come up with the shi** that you profess on this site.
The Sun might make the point like Perfumo and Thorpe that Laws might have left himself open to blackmail due to him being a closet homosexual if you are out, there is not much the Sun or News of the World can do to you unless there is a sting and try to set you up with a rent boy Mark Oaten case in point. There are more scandals left in cabinet still to come out wether it be sex, drugs or more than likely expenses or flipping like Danny Alexander another pillar of the community.
I'm such an asshole. I just love ruining all the comment pages!
Abdul, There you go again proving my point may a true word spoken in jest I do not need to make a fool of you, you do it all by yourself.
Could someone on the NS writing staff or even the webmaster do something about "Abdul" piggy wiggy?!
Don't you people read the postings??
Of course "gay people" can be in the cabinet. The same rules should apply to them as to straight people.
I wonder what The Scum would be saying if it was Alan Duncan who had resigned instead of shiny Dave Laws?!
The Sun crapola is irrelevant to the issue. No one cares if Laws was gay. The point is that he paid 40 grand in rent to his partner. Gay or not that was clearly against the rules and that's why he had to go. His pathetic defense that he didn't want to reveal he was gay is out of time, out of place and well out of sympathy. I'm sure most of his colleagues in parliament knew he was gay including some who vetted his expenses. Playing the gay card doesn't wash nowadays. He had a cunning wheeze to make 40k on expenses and he got caught. The bleating in the press about how we are all getting carried away in a witch hunt is just so much spin.
I refer to the quickly forgotten Tory party manifesto on the 'big clean up' of politics;(you know the one the Tories voted him in on):
"It is vital that we act quickly and decisively to restore the reputation of politics. Too much unacceptable behaviour has gone unchecked
for too long, from excessive expenses to sleazy lobbying practices. The people of Britain have looked on in horror as revelations have stripped away the dignity of Parliament,leaving millions of voters detached from the
political process, devoid of trust in the political classes, and disillusioned with our system
of government.
We will act rapidly to push through farreaching reforms to restore ethics to politics and revive the electorate’s faith in politicians.
It will take nothing less than a deep clean of the political system in Westminster to root out the
sleaze and dispel suspicion. We will start by cleaning up the expenses system to ensure MPs live by the same standards as the people
who give them their jobs, and by curbing the way in which former Ministers have secured lobbying jobs by exploiting their contacts.
But that is just the start. We will also cut Ministers’ pay and reduce the number of MPs in Parliament. Then we will go further,Make Politics more accountable.
We will clean up politics: the expenses, the lobbying and problems with party funding. We will cut
the cost of Parliament, cut the number of MPs and cut Ministers’ pay. We will give citizens direct
control over what goes on in Westminster, make government more accountable and safeguard the
independence of the civil service.
far further, since the expenses scandal was just the trigger for a deeper sense of frustration.
We promise a total overhaul of our system of government, so that power is passed from the politicians at Westminster back to the people of
Britain. But this is the very least that is needed to fix our broken political system.
Clean up Westminster
The political crisis was triggered by the scandal of MPs’ expenses. We were the Party that insisted that MPs’ expenses were published
online, and we have supported the independent proposals to clean up the House of Commons. We proposed legislation so that anyone
wanting to be a member of either the House of Commons or the House of Lords will need to be treated as a full UK taxpayer. But much,
much more is needed to clean up our politics and restore public trust.
At the moment, there is no way that local constituents can remove an MP found guilty of serious wrongdoing until there is a general election. That is why a Conservative
government will introduce a power of ‘recall’
Change politics / Make politics more accountable to allow electors to kick out MPs, a power
that will be triggered by proven serious wrongdoing. And we will introduce a Parliamentary Privilege Act to make clear that privilege cannot be abused by MPs to
evade justice. The cost of politics has spiralled out of control. We will cut the perks and bureaucracy"
Oh yes Mr Cameron, it's your 'big society' manifesto, did you not forget to insert?....." But as soon as we get in, by whatever means it takes, we'll cut bureaucracy even further and put our beloved manifesto straight through our industrial sized shredder" ........ Along with other clauses such as
" and when any of us gets caught with our pants down; stealing £40,000 from the electorate, we'll quickly be onto the press and get it glossed over in the the way we always did; and what's more, any one caught will get a glowing cv from me and my wholehearted support that should stay on as an honourable MP".
Good grief, why don't they promptly dispatch Dave C out to that massive oil spewing disaster? - he's so big on clean ups' he'd have it cleanded up in a jiffy!!
Unless I'm reading the poll wrong 95% of Sun readers either didn't care if ministers were gay or didn't know. I think that's a pretty good result. Probably would have been much worse on the Daily Mail.
Abdul,No one and I mean no one can post the shi** that you post not even a fake Abdul you have that honour all to your self. Why would any one try to discredit a ejit like yourself, you do it better than anyone else could, so please do not stop with your posting regardless of the shi** you post if nothing else it gives us all a laugh on how stupid you really are including your assertion that someone is using your name and copying "the real one" what an ar** why would anyone ? Gives us the benefit of your political analysis why the Sun thinks it is a bad idea to have gay men in the cabinet instead of the closet.
Raymond, it's probably fairly dangerous to invite our good friend to give us an 'analysis' on anything at all! (I'd leave that to his shrink) I tell ya, he's deeply troubled by his new found dual personality syndrome(DPS); as if one of em wasn't enough!
Oh and by the way, not long ago I listened to the local news and apparently Mr Laws has received overwhelming support for him to stay on as an 'honourable' member of Parliament. Yes, ALL of his emails were in overwhelming support, funny that? as I know mine wasn't and I'm pretty sure yours wasn't exactly a plea for him to stay eh!
Abdul, you see you prove my point is this your attempt at humour, gutter humour at best. Is this with extent of your crital analysis of the question posed. You have found a web site that is not moderated and you are in your element. You respond just like Pavlov's dog, give you a crumb and you jump at the chance to prove to all that read this and any other column that your one finger can type that you an 100% tin plated non entity
No Abdul, my pay is enough thanks. Just making the point that I'm honest and hardworking; unlike Laws the crook, Cameron the conman and all the big chiefs who fleece the Country. The other point being that my hard work is probably paying for you as we await your next gripping pearl of wisdom whilst pondering over whether your next benefit payment will go into your account (you gotta be on the ol benny me ol son as no one is ever gonna employ you in a month of sundays!)
But on the plus side, it's pleasing to see you managed to read that far, did you skip the Manifesto bit? Unfortunately your ol hero Dave C didn't get round to putting it in Beano format for you. Now isn't it time to 'de-robe' and take your meds AAH, there's a good boy?!
Hi Nick, I fully support the Telegraph in all that it is doing to get rid of the more obvious corrupt MP's, in Scotland and Glasgow in particular the Speaker Martin was a good example of how corrupt you can get.I personally knew Jim Devine ex MP he worked his way up from shop steward to union officer did his time in the Labour Party and was finally rewarded by being elected as an MP but rather that being sub'tle like the rest jumped straight onto the gravy train just a little bit late and was caught and rightly so.
I did send an email to David Laws and told him I thought it was a disgrace what he did and he should do the " honourabe " thing I do not think I will be able to use those two words again in the same sentence talking about him. There is more to come out the rest is a smokescreen, civil servants salaries, being gay.
The electorate may be fooled and persuaded that the Telegraph carried out a witch hunt but the facts speak for themselves, who in their right mind millionaire or not would pay back tens of thousands of pounds if you had not done anything. The Telegraph did not fabricate David Laws living arrangements he did.
I bought the book by the two journalists who almost broke the story "No Expense Spared " it is an eye opener as you know the whole scandal started by an American woman who made a request under the Freedom of Information Act brought in by a Labour Government who is having the last laught now, and laid it at Mr Speaker Martin's feet it was his handling of the whole affair that caused the Telegraph to pick it up.
As night follows day there will be more revelations I am sure of that the sooner parliament is cleaned up the better for all of us. Good luck Nick
Thanks Raymond, I've never gone a bundle on Cameron but his stance on Laws beggars belief, he should never be allowed to remain as an MP. He should be facing the oak panelled dock of an Old Bailey Courtroom on deception charges, The Theft Act 1968 'obtaining a pecuniary advantage' charge fits the sheet nicely I'd have thought, if only the CPS would be so bold. A jury of his peers should decide his fate, not Cameron, nor his supposed followers, it would, I'm sure result in his conviction. He shouldn't be lapping up the sympathy suckers, he should be languishing in the green and white tiled cells of some horrible prison. It's utterly shameful that he appears to be able to get away with this, I hope NS makes some appropriate noises. The dust shouldn't be allowed to settle on this one.
It's not so much a question of Dave Laws, rather Dave's Law me thinks!
Nick, Last post before bed I agree totally with you but think of the ones who have gone before you need to get them kicking and screaming from the commons to get them to stand down it is the power and money they make yes they maybe millionaires but in the commons they dont have to touch their millions as we the taxpayer pay for everything the list is endless select committees on foreign fact finding trips, first class travel, free phone calls, employing family members, it goes on and on. Jeffery Archer takes the biscuit in my book sorry for the pun. What about Hazel Blears if there was ever a case it was hers bold as brass, pays out what £12/16 thousand small change its ok she will get it back on expenses ! for work done to her second home, nearly brings down the Prime Minister at the time, bumped out of the cabinet hated by her electorate and what do they do re elect her they deserve her what chance of seeing justice there, she was on with George Galloway an other self serving politican on the Andrew Neil show I nearly put my foot through the tv I switched off she has no credibility as far as I am concerned. Yes a law for them in the old boys club and one for us to keep them in the luxury that they have become accustomed to.
Hey Abdul, will you defintely honour your promise if I lie and tell you I was born n bred in Glasgow?
Abdul, as a fully fledged Muslim; should it not be 'as Allah is my witness?' ah chucks your blowing your cover again KID!
But gay people ARE second class citizens. If they weren't then why would the government segregate them and their relationships into a second classed civil institution instead of granting them access to first class civil marriage and why would gay people so readily accept their second class status?
The UK DOES consider gay people second class and most gay people seem to be just fine with it.
Abdul Amir Hassan still free to post here. Just ignore him and he might get the message.
Why has David Laws been out to be the genius our country cannot do without? He was a nobody before rising to sudden stardom at the back of the poor Lib Dem election result nor did he take our economy to record success in 2.5 weeks. He was a man of no significance before and was paid no attention to so I think we can continue to pay no attention to him with the knowledge that he is back to the insignificant place he belongs.
Why has David Laws been made out to be the genius our country cannot do without? What will we do without him?
He was a nobody before rising to sudden stardom at the back of the poor Lib Dem election result, nor did he take our economy to record success in 2.5 weeks. He was a man of no significance before and was paid no attention to so I think we can continue to pay no attention to him with the knowledge that he is back to the insignificant place he belongs.
Abdul - Just to clarify, I have never, nor will I ever, use your "name" to send fake postings. One of you is more than enough and besides, I can't get my head around a person wanting to post under a pseudonym's pseudonym.
If I were to imitate you I would continually misspell "squeal", patronisingly end my sentences with "kid", "son" or "luv" and deliberately misconstrue other poster's comments of being offensive to minority groups. It's just the sentences themselves I would struggle to construct. Seriously, what recesses of your mind do you have to visit that facillitates the amount of brain spunk ejaculated from your keyboard?
Incidentally, I deliberately used the word "savages" as you yourself had expressed that term in a previous thread - but yeah yeah, I'm shamelessly racist if that makes you feel better. Hey, feel free to copy and paste and twist that statement for one of your future posts - it would be an act of genius and wouldn't be predictably puerile in the least.
Al - I realise we shouldn't really engage with Abdul, but once today's blogs have been written we should instigate a sweepstake on what time the bum clown makes his first post.
An extra bonus could be awarded to the first person he accuses of racism, homophobia, anti-semitism, etc.
Dylan; yes it would be an interesting sweepstake that one! Mind you; I reckon he's got hidden talent that one, a real knack of straying the subject from its original question and turning it around to something else by way of distraction. Perhaps he could get a job as a journalist on the Sun? he wouldn't even have to brush up on his spelling!
Hi Al and Nick, I agree with you totally after last nights spate with you know who, I have decided to totally ignore him and not respond to any of his post as that only gives him the air of publicity.
I do find a delicious irony that the Sun is supposed to be the working man's paper for modern Britain and yet callously supports any sort of right-wing agendas in social situations, and backed a Conservative government that is now seeking to undermine and tax the working class, push them out of benefits despite pushing them simultaneously in unemployment, whilst keeping all the fat kids with their cream.
Look at that, haven't even mentioned the ridiculous headline yet- I'm surprised that in a such a supposedly progressive country, this kind of headline is legal.
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