that should be 8% not 85,lol

The Act of Union in 1707 was a political union between two nations.It was not freely and fairly entered into by Scotland.Leaving aside the fact that the Scottish people of the day(who were against it)had no democratic rights,the Act only came into being by a mixture of the threat of invasion and the bribery of Scottish politicians.Nevertheless,the Union,despite it's shabby origin,and despite it having been exstensively breached by every Westminster government and parliament since,is a political union between two nations.Scotland would not be seceding from the union but dissolving it unilaterally as is Scotland's right under the Treaty.You cannot be said to be seceding from a union that has ended.Dissolution is what it will be and not secession.That,therefore is the clue for those who are confused about Scottish sovereignty.It lies with the Scottish people and not Westminster.Still,if David Cameron is foolish enough to be a votejacker he'll only be helping to advance independence.

The Claim of Right motion is a master stroke: Labour, Tory and LD MSPs will now have to either get behind a self-evident truth, or else be shown as puppets of Westminster.

In 1994, Labour-run Strathclyde Region held a referendum on water privatisation, a policy being pushed by the Tory government of the day. The result was a massive NO to the privatisation policy. An opposition controlled local authority held a referendum that was against government policy and won. Now, are we really saying that the devolved parliament has less power than a local authority? There are those in the Scottish Labour party who are arguing that a referendum would be illegal, that sovereignty lies with the Crown in parliament, that we are but subjects, and only Westminster can grant such a referendum.

You know when lifelong Labour supporters start upholding the rule of the Crown in Parliament that something has gone wrong in Labour's ranks. A party that once thought of themselves as socialists are now giving a good impression of being Unionists and Royalists. And this before they even choose their leader and their future strategy. Or has it already been chosen for the future incumbent? The notion that the people are sovereign was, of course, brought up by Labour and the Lib Dems in the 1980s in the Claim of Right. It claimed: "We, gathered as the Constitutional Convention, do hereby acknowledge the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of government best suited to their needs, and do hereby declare that in all our actions and deliberations their interests shall be paramount." Labour signed up to that. The Lib Dems signed up to that. It seems still a good democratic basis for modern Parliament - that the people are sovereign, not the crown. How long will Labour's support avoid a split? How many are willing to toe the Unionist and Royalist line?

Fraziel1.

I presume your childish name calling is due to your lack of substance. I always know I have a Scot on the ropes when the name calling starts. It is usually followed by spelling and grammar corrections. What a sorry lot you are. Independence ? I hope you get it, it's what ya'al deserve.

If the SNP hold a referendum, as they are perfectly entitled to do, the westminster government is legally entitled to ignore it as all matters relating to independence/break up of the union etc are reserved for westminster. However,Swatantra, if the Scottish public voted in large numbers for independence or fiscal autonomy it would put huge pressure on Westminster to do something rather than just ignore it.As for unionists being opposed to Scotland leaving but wanting to leave the EU, i do not see and relevance to your remark. They are 2 completely different issues.

Buckskins

You are obviously just a troll.Nevertheless,just in case anyone gave the slightest credence to your remarks,I'll list the economic strengths and potentialities of Scotland.The largest oil and gas reserves in the EU.The largest renewable energy potential in the EU and probably the world.70% of UK coal reserves.A huge earner in tourism.A huge export earner in whisky.Other Scottish food and drink products being exported in increasing quantities thanks to the SNP Government's tireless efforts.Scottish beer,cheeses,langoustine etc.Biotechnology.Engineering.Computer games design.A great location for movie makers.Brad Pitt,Halle Berry and Scarlett Johannson have all been making Hollywood movies here this year.Scotland's first goldmine has just been given approval.Harris tweed is a world renowned brand.A substantial agricultural sector.Several multinationals have annouced investment plans in Scotland this year,and not just in the renewables sector.Scottish Universities doing ground breaking research.The list goes on.Perhaps, Buckskins,you are lazy by nature if you haven't taken the trouble to do research about the Scottish economy instead of making racist jibes.

Buckskins, what is your problem with Scottish independence? Are you seriously saying that the Scots are too lazy or thick to run our own affairs? Seriously?

Your comments yesterday about my country being full of whiners and losers are ignorant, lazy and wrong. Have you ever been here?

In fact Scotland's best export has been its people. They've gone on and run the far flung corners of the 'Empire' and Malawi and BP.
At the end of the day, ultimate power and sovreignity actually lies in 'The People'. They can declare UDI as the American Colonials did in 1776, or remove Monarchs Annointed by God like what happened to Charles Stuart, Alexander of Russia and Louise 16.
So whatever Westminster may say, Scotland could ignore it and walk away. And there's little 'The English' could do about it.

North Sea Oil bankrolled Thatcherism, if only the Conservative movement had the guts to admit to that fact.

It would be nice, when people are on here pontificating about how whatever the Scots people decide isn't "worth the paper it's written on" if they could at least do us the courtesy of learning that there is no such word as "cecede". It's "secede".

Particularly unforgivable when they must have just have read the word spelt correctly in the article itself.

If their powers of logic are anything like their powers of observation then the Scots have nothing to worry about. Nothing at all.

"Your comments yesterday about my country being full of whiners and losers are ignorant, lazy and wrong. Have you ever been here?"

Yes, many times.

BTW, your food is God awful.

Swatantra, I do hope you noticed that you contradicted yourself. You stated first of all that the Claim of Right (which declares that power lies with the people) was nonsense and power lies with Westminster, then you said in your second post that power, in fact, lies with the people. Make up your mind please.

I happen to believe that power does lie with the people, as does Article 8 (I think) of the UN Charter.

the SNP aren't just fighting the 3 unionist partys, they are also fighting the political establishment and a unionist press, yet they did the thing our electoral system was set up for, they won a majority, we scots are sick of being lied to by unionist polititians, i to really hope the torys and labour at wesminster try to interfear with our plans, the eyes of the world are on them and how they deal with this will be watched closly, after all they are always telling us our soldiers and the world that we'll fight for real democracy where ever that is.

The UK Government and Scottish Unionist’s demands for an immediate referendum are cynically politically-based. If Alex Salmond said yes to their specious request, they would be thrown into even greater panic and driven to even greater incompetence than they are now displaying, and that’s saying something.
Their thinly disguised political motive is to make mischief, not to force a referendum. But if Cameron listens to the lunatic voices within hise unionist camp, he might try to force a UK-led referendum, which would be an act of utter political folly with consequences no one could predict.

"Tom Harris insists that the SNP, having campaigned on a platform to break-up Britain and not to turn it into a federation, has no mandate for a referendum on anything other than straight-forward independence. Perhaps he has a point."

In fact he doesn't, as the SNP's election manifesto can easily be interpreted as offering a multi-choice referendum:

http://wingsland.podgamer.com/?p=12059

Harris has a nasty habit of saying things that aren't true. He recently alleged that "SNP protesters" had picketed the Scottish Labour conference with banners reading "END ENGLISH RULE" and "QUISLINGS". Even when people linked to actual pictures of the event, showing a banner reading "END LONDON RULE" (not "ENGLISH"), no sign of the word "quislings" and no evidence that the people involved had any connection to the SNP, Harris continued making his allegations, with their barely-concealed hints of racism (likening the protesters to the BNP rather than the SNP).

He's basically a troll, and his pronouncements should be taken with a large pinch of salt at best, and regarded as flat-out untruths at worst.

Fine, buckskins-but I think you genuinely believe that scots are, on the whole, workshy and self-pitying, and hence incapable of ruiing our own affairs. Sadly, a lot of people in scotland feel that on some level-but most of them don't. All of the people I know work hard and don't expect to have anything handed to them on a plate.

You were unlucky with your food. Next time you're in edinburgh, try the dogs near hanover street.

Anyway, why am I making excuses for scottish food to a texan?

what about those scots living in England - will we get a chance to vote? What if only my mother is Scottish and my father is not? Do I still count? I have no document which states i am Scottish or English - only British -- confused

voters in scotland should be in charge of there fate through a referendumn but be given the full truth? what will happen if scotland goes independent regarding joining the ssr nwo EU? scotland will lose all independence and its very soul ? as the eu is facist antichristian state ? all our divine history will also be gone to our future generations , be aware councilor peter campbell ukip

When do we get a referendum on whether we want a government at all? I don't recall ever agreeing to be governed.

Prat

For the Unionists that still remain (and I notice most of the ones, if not all, on here are English, surprise, surprise) I have two questions for you? I'll help you by providing the answers as well, in case your brains cannot stretch that far.

1) Who has the most factual information about Scotland's finances and her contributions to the UK treasury?

Answer 1) Holyrood and Westminster

2) Who is desperately hanging onto Scotland while Holyrood tries to get Scotland to leave the Union?

Answer 2) Westminster

Now, you may not have the inclination to do the research and find out the true figures for yourself regarding oil, VAT, benefits etc. but do you honestly believe that your Prime Minister is fighting tooth and nail to hang onto a country that is apparently draining your coffers?

Hmmm, if you believe Cameron (or Thatcher for that matter) are such lovely, charitable people then you are completely deluded. Actions speak louder than words people, if Cameron wants Scotland to remain in the Union then it is 100% clear Scotland is better off out of the Union.

It's six months since the SNP won the majority vote and their opponents pledged to make a positive case to remain in the Union and maintain the respect agenda. All they have done so far is go on about the legalities of a referendum, the timing, the wording, the questions, how it will impact on investment and we'll be thrown out of the EU. If this is the positive case for the Union I can't wait for them to get down to the dirty negative scaremongering.

Mike Cobley,
just curious, why the hostility?

"And as for the referendum, where the question in which Scots voters are asked if an independent Scotland should retain 10% of the UK nuclear attack capability? Oh, and gets a seat on the Security Council as well. Why not?"

We want neither of those things. You are welcome to them.