'The writer Natasha Walter claims that being able to wear trousers and drink beer on her own means sexism is dead...'

And just think, her father was an anarchist who sought to change everything.

In some ways I agree with you, Julie. I've bitten my tongue in polite conversations with women who boldly say they are feminist, "but not THAT kind of feminist, you know?", and I've wanted to bang my head on the table more than once when good intelligent people spout the ridiculous rhetoric of the straw feminist out to castrate everyone with a penis. People are ashamed to say they are feminist even when they agree wholeheartedly with its basic tenants, and that's a real problem.

BUT... this "fun feminism" that you're talking about, be that it exists a lot more substantially than the cleaver-wielding straw feminist, I don't think is as bad as you posit. In this new age we're experiencing where social media and our basic interactions have us existing in a web of stimulus with ourselves trapped in the centre, self empowerment is essential to everything we do. We are isolated in a sea of outside media bombarding us in every direction... Twitter, Facebook, email, chat, market advertising, entertainment media... we can talk to dozens of people and access limitless information anytime we want at the click of a button. This has become the basic life experience of my generation and those after me, and when I'm drawn into so much social interaction that is quite impossible to turn off (and it's pretty much expected that you be available at all times!), isolation and empowerment of the "self" is something I never seem to stop grasping for as much as possible. This is who *I* am, this is what *I've* decided, this is what *I* will do. I'm not sure we find comfort in the group solidarity of a single issue as much now as we do in defining what that issue means to the essential aspect of "ourselves", and then perhaps seeking out others of like mind.

Whether good or bad depends on the viewpoint, but it is the way people are thinking now and our culture is bending to enforce it. I would fully expect there would be changes in how social movements are enacted based on this. But I don't believe that self-empowering feminism is the death of the feminist movement nor disrespectful to those who faced far more than we ever knew to bring us to this point. What our predecessors did changed the world, and it worked at the time and social/cultural environment it was meant for. But that environment has changed dramatically since then and it's time to find a way that works for us here and now. Support each other and work together, yes, but we are not going to make the world better for all of us unless all of us are able to decide what that means in the first place.

We do that... by talking to each other. By telling each other what it means to us, ourselves, and hearing in turn what it means to someone else. They may be shockingly different, but more often than not it brings something new to the table that one person's self-reflection may not have considered before. Academics has taught me to think for myself and to think critically, but always, always hear what others have to say. I didn't reach my views of feminism by reading the word in the dictionary... it was compiled from internalizing hundreds of sources: articles, books, blog posts, videos, and personal conversations with many, many people (some of whom speak the opposite view... you can learn a lot about how people and society work by how they disagree). It's very hard to put yourself wholeheartedly into something until you can define it for yourself, but once you do it becomes an irrevocable part of your identity. I could never stop being feminist now until the day I die, and my parameters of it are constantly changing to incorporate every new thing I learn. I encourage this growth in anyone else I encounter, and I don't condemn them for not going in the same direction with it as me.

I don't feel that trying enforce someone else's views of feminism will win me their support. I'm not going to tell a woman in a hajab or a burka that the symbol of her faith is oppressing her and she should do away with it for the good of all womankind; if she wants to do so and feels strongly enough to face the very real social and cultural repercussions that this action will have on her, then that must be her choice and made for her own reasons. Likewise, I am NEVER going to walk up to a group of rape and sexual assault survivors who gather in the one organized activity where the majority present understand and support them through what they've been through, and tell them that all this Slutwalking is shameful and damaging to the feminist mission, and really, stop making us all look bad already, have some respect for the movement! Because they ARE the movement, they have created the part of it that they needed and were previously lacking! I have nothing but support for this.

I'm more concerned for eliminating the undeserving stigma feminism has garnered and encouraging people to explore it openly and unashamedly. Think for a moment, if every self-empowered female voice spoke up without fear or reservation for what they want, be it fair wages or respectful treatment or equal opportunity or safety, and add to that the voices of the men who stand without fear and reservation with us (because they do exist! And it's in our interest that they be heard alongside us!), I think enough of us might agree on the same things that the sound would be quite deafening. And even if we don't agree on anything (because so many people rarely do), that many voices is still pretty hard to ignore when they speak up. The major concern is getting them to speak up.

There's another way of looking at it. Radical feminists made a huge fuss about them being victimized and since men are designed to protect women and change whatever is upsetting them, men gave those radicals what they asked for / bitched about.

the link for this article kept showing on various pages, so finally i bothered to read it. no idea it was so old. but here's my reaction to it;

with feminists like Julie Bindel you don't need men to denigrate women.

Hey Julie, I just read your article and I have a few question to ask you about the kind of change you, as a "radical, not fun feminist" are trying to make.

So, according to you, doing certain things (like wearing a berkha) are not liberating for women... is that correct? What if lap dancing is a choice someone is making? Same with not working to take care of children? How do you feel about those things? Why isn't liberation letting women do what they would like free of judgement?

Also, I'd like to know how things like the slut walk HURT the feminist movement? A group of girls (and even boys!) standing together, dressing up, and making the statement that they can wear what they like, and they do not invite people into their personal space because of it. Who cares what they are wearing? How is this not an ideal that supports the idea that woman, and people in general can be free? I will admit, that sort of event is not my cup of tea, but I am not about to tell the people who are a part of it that what they are doing is wrong! That ruins the point... people feeling empowered and accomplished in raising awareness to the situation IS the point. Why do you have to shit on the idea because it doesn't jive with your way of being feminist?

I also want to ask... what do you think feminism is? What do you think we should be fighting for, against, and how?

Gender equality is not quite that simple. Heterosexual and homosexual philosophies have to be taken into account.
Then there is the economic side of things. Many wives who can afford to take on the role of home-makers because of their husband's position in the world of work hold no truck with serious feminism. Besides household gadgets they may even exploit their sister sex. It also threatens their husbands' jobs and sons' aspirations. Daughters will be expected to marry well. Or get a career. Common law partners - a partnership made in heaven for men.
Women with looks to trade and if they are oriented towards the male sex do not profess to admire women's advancement. Get that dowry!
A unquantifiable proportion of gay men are also quiet happy with the status quo.
There is little doubt that women invented agriculture and that everything else rests on that vital invention.
So even if womenkind has rested on its laurels since that epochal development all other scientific or hi-tech advances could not have taken place without agriculture.
Huntin' and Fishin' is all very well but compared to the agi-business it's merely a pastime for men.

Unisex

So where does this leave us men who are trying to strive for a fair and equal world for everyone? There's a lot of us out here. I don't recall ever having been in a position to prevent women reaching the boardroom or put up barriers to their progress through life, nor do I have the power to influence broader attitudes towards women in society.

I hope that the women who have loved me in the past have done so because I'm a decent chap worthy of a woman's love and not because she's insane enough somehow have fallen for her oppressor.

Anyway, nice article sweetheart - keep up the good work as it's kinda cute!! *pats liddle lady on the head*

"We need to bring back the radical edge to feminism, and do away with any notion that slutwalking, lap dancing, sex working or Burkha-wearing is liberation for women. "

Surely no woman can actually enjoy such displays of sexuality and having the choice of whether to take part in them or not? If they say they do then they must be dismissed as simply brainwashed dupes of male dominance. Equality for women, but some women should be more equal than others.

"If men like a particular brand of feminism, it means it is not working."

I'm not a man hater - honest, I wouldn't make sweeping, prejudiced generalisations about them, really, some of my best friends etc....

"In fact, they are damaging to other women, and are destroying progress won by those of us who do not weep when men disapprove of our views."

Because any woman who does not agree with me, and the theories I endorse, is a weak, ineffectual whinger or a collaborating fifth columnist who must be saved from themselves.

"Imagine white folk telling black anti-racist activists that their movement is ineffective because white people are not given equal say about strategies for change."

Yet Apartheid would not have fallen, at least not for some time, without the help of white folks.

I often enjoy your articles Julie, sometimes agreeing, sometimes laughing at your deliberate poking at the opinions of others to get a response, but sometimes you drift away from sense or humour and fall into simple ranting bile.

If you don't find a way to include those "funbots" and yes, men too, then you will ultimately fail. After all, can you really exclude such large parts of the population from your plans for the future and expect a positive result?

I always thought the point of Feminism was to empower women so that they could & would be equal to anyone else? What does that have to do with sexual orientation or the clothes we wear or someones gender?
If someone supports & works for making women equal & letting them make decisions for themselves, that's good enough for me. If a woman chooses to be a stripper, & no one is forcing her, that's her choice, period. If a woman chooses to be a stay at home mom & wife, that's her choice. So long as no one's forcing her, that's not some how anti-feminist.
We fought, & still fight, for equality, the right to choose for ourselves what we do with our lives. You dictating what women should or can't do is ANTI feminist, in my opinion.

I am a feminist. Men are alright. I actually like most of them. Women are alright and I tend to like a lot of them as well. Feminism's worst enemy happens to be women; not all, just the ones that don't see the big picture and there are many.
We are a complacent lot, especially us Westerners. The truth is that given equal experience and education a woman still makes less than a man. We can make more as call girls and pole dancers than we can as teachers and first responders.
Feminism is nothing more than knowing that we are equal to men (I didn't say "the same" as men) and have the right to the same rules, responsibilities and chances as them. Women constantly give away their power to the first fellow that calls them "pretty". With all the strength we have in our bodies and minds, we sure are a foolish bunch.

When oh when will daft feminists realise that there is and never has been a patriarchy? Look through all of history. Men worked and earned a living, were the warriors, and did what they had to do to protect their women and children, or even a woman or child they didnt know (generally speaking, im not including raids etc on different villages/tribes) essentially, men did all the hard stuff, all women had to do was earn their keep. Making dinner, picking up groceries, caring for the children while the men were at work. Now look. Feminism created "equal" rights and things got infinitely harder. Rarely will a man rush to the defence of a woman anymore, nor do we tend to give a damn about the abuse we do hear of. Its self inflicted. You can call the old ways sexist, chauvanist, whatever the hell you like. I'll stick to chivalry. Sincerely, someone with more than two braincells to rub together whom ignores the propaganda of hatemongering, gender bashing sandwhich makers.

P.S. Julie, get back to your kitchen.

It should be - "if the state likes a particular brand of feminism, it means it's not working". Julie Bindel's "feminism" is apologism for the government's coercive laws to criminalise prostitute women fighting poverty, allow the police to profit from raiding premises (proceeds of crime act) and deport immigrant sex workers through anti "trafficking" legislation (where any immigrant sex worker is defined as trafficked regardless of whether coercion was used). She's an apologist. People like her don't like SlutWalk because we think EVERY woman should be protected. That would threaten her lovely career of making a profit from writing divisive cr*p like this and being a front for the government's agenda.

We and the women we support and work with would be very grateful if you stopped diverting feminism - a movement which does have the potential to speak for ALL women, including the refugees, sex workers and schoolgirls in our SlutWalk organising group - into some snotty middle class competition about who hates men most, whose only demand is to criminalise sex work.

is it a contradiction in terms that as a man i wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment here.

I'm constantly suprised that i'm more of a feminist (n the classic sense) than any of my female friends.

One of the greatest events of the Civil Rights Movement in the USA was the March on Washington. It forced the political elite to do something. This was massive show of Unity between White people, Hispanics and African-Americans.

This article is just utter nonsense. Feminism isn't about women vs. men. You make that point by showing that strong women like Thatcher are hindrances to feminism. It is about Unity of the like-minded, regardless of class, gender, sexuality and ethnicity.

You self-proclaimed purists or radicals are just as much a hindrance to the feminist cause as Thatcher and Dorries.

Have you considered that some women like doing those things for their own merits, and not because men want them to? Why is it any more acceptable for you to wield shame and how to behave over women than it is for a man to? Feminism is about equality. I don't know what it is you're trying to achieve.

Julie, i agree with much of this article. The only concern i have is that Natasha Walter has openly said that some of the points she made about sexism being over in The New Feminism were completely wrong, and has offered a rather revised view on how sexism definitely definitely still exists! perhaps Ellie Levenson's book a better target for critiquing fun feminism?
I think Nina Power's book One Dimensional Woman is a brilliant look at how re-branding feminism as fun is problematic. She also looks at the problems of Sarah Palin calling herself a feminist - as you cite Dorries and Thatcher above. We need to move away from feminism being defined as 'this is my individual choice as a woman and is therefore a feminist choice' and see feminism and our choices as part of their effect on other women...sisterhood if you will! For me, fun feminism is about saying everything i do as a woman is naturally feminist, without question, and that is just daft! If feminism is something we each define for ourselves, it risks becoming meaningless. Choice, finding empowerment in a shampoo or large glass of white - this is not what makes a movement, this is not what makes change! It's agreeing and colluding with the patriarchy!

I do think there is a move away from fun feminism in the UK tho, i think especially in terms of attitudes towards vawg and the sex industry current UK feminism is more on the radical side than modern USA feminism...

Here's my review of Nina Power's book which is basically me continuing my musings on fun feminism - sorry to link troll!

http://sianandcrookedrib.blogspot.com/2011/02/book-review-one-dimensiona...

Wow. This is such a wrong-headed article. I've been a feminist since the early days of second-wave in the 70's, and the hateful tone of this article is something I don't agree with at all. This looks more like the kind of man-hating Andrea Dworkin stuff that tarred us with a bad name than any real kind of workable feminist theory. Men aren't welcome? What kind of gender-bashing nonsense is that? The men who agree with feminism - which, by the way, is not about "ending male supremacy" but about making sure that PEOPLE are treated with equal respect regardless of gender - should certainly be welcome within feminism. What, only women can work towards true equality? How childish, bitter, and narcissistic of you. The world will never become a better place if you just take the attitudes of the "patriarchy" and turn them upside down. We're supposed to be BETTER than that. Work for a BETTER world, not for revenge.