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33 comments from readers

Culverin
02 November 2009 at 13:36

Lord Pearson is one of the many in this country and in Europe who hide their racism behind the veil of 'nationalism'.

Extreme right wing views and racism seem to have become perfectly acceptable in this country provided you only target the Muslim community. It's very worrying, I would hate to be treated the same way.

Adrian Morgan
02 November 2009 at 14:31

Two points. The first is that Pearson may be naive about the numbers, suggesting that breeding rates are the reason why there seem to be so many Muslims in Britain - where the rise in our population has been made by uncontrolled immigration - 2 million more inhabitants over 8 years:

http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/communities/ecope...

His fears are genuine fears about our country becoming changed beyond recognition. To suggest that his voicing of his fears is the same language as used in the 1930s against Jews is - of itself, odious, inflammatory and dishonest.

The 1930s led to the Holocaust, and you know perfectly well that even the most fanatical political Islamophobe would stop short of advocating genocide against Muslims. By bringing up the 1930s and thef ar right, you are blatantly trying to suggest this.

No wonder Harry's Place gave you a hard time if you use such cheap devices in your "articles" and speeches.

There have been some extremely unpleasant elements within UKIP - such as Alastair McConnachie who in 2001 denied the true extent of the Holocaust:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2001/feb/27/uk.race

My second point is aimed at the politically correct comment - so in vogue at present - made by Culverin, echoing those made by so many in the leftist media and assorted comments boxes.

Culverin is stating that Pearson is racist.

Unless there is evidence to prove Lord Pearson is a racist, you are "crying wolf". This is such a tired tactic of the left (and Islam is an ideology, not a race) that it is like the shepherd crying wolf.

The more it is heard, and the more it is seen to be unproven, such comments lose their meaning.

Perhaps one should address the comments that Lord Pearson made and DISPROVE them, rather than getting into a pseudo-moral lather.

If he is wrong, SHOW US where he is wrong, and please leave the "ad hominem" personal condemnations to the readers' imaginations.

So far, you have proved more about your own sensitivity to criticism (in your linked "defences") and your aversion to critics of Islamism (or Islam) than you have disproved Pearson's points.

Your own true colours are displaying tints of paranoia and hyperbole.

More evidence, less opinion please.

Harry
02 November 2009 at 16:00

Seems as though his Lordship wants to be a less obnoxious version of Nick Griffin. But if he was to become leader of UKIP then the BNP will have a serious rival vying for Islamophobic voters. Pearson is a de facto bigot who conceals it smugly, not unlike Anjum Chowdry!

Hannah
02 November 2009 at 16:15

I think it should be pointed out that he said 'the threat of radical islam', meaning not all muslims, only people who threaten to cause terror because they are muslim. This isnt a dig at muslims in general, but if muslims don't want to be tarnished with the terrorist brush, muslims shouldn't have become terrorists.

I know this can be applies to anyone who threatens things, its just a coinincidence that recently its all been muslims.

IsThatcherDeadYet
02 November 2009 at 16:26

These crypto fascists spew their bile without actually mentioning any solutions (there's that word again) maybe it's enough for them to merely terrify the Islamic community psychologically, for their own

gratification.

Mehdi Hasan
02 November 2009 at 17:03

"Hannah" - I would agree with you BUT he refers to "the Muslims" - all of us? - breeding at outrageously rapid rates. He slips from talking about Islamists and "radical Islam" to talking about, and demonizing, Muslims as a whole. Others have done the same thing - Martin Amis comes to mind.

Jaffer Clarke
02 November 2009 at 17:20

In connection with the language used by Lord Pearson, "to breed" dehumanises Muslims as animals, and "the threat" presupposes that a peace loving, tolerant religion can pose a challenge to any existing norms in the country. It reminds me of Michel Houellebecq's rant against Islam as a religion that is >conviolent

alan stoddart
02 November 2009 at 17:56

Mehhdi is the Islamic Melanie Philips of the Blogoshpere, or Ed Husain's version of her...Mad Mel...The Mad Mehdi ranting away. I

In a democratic, secular society an ideology like Islam is radical...its active and professed hatred of homosexuals, its sexism, its anti-semitism, its desire for Muslim supremacy, its insistence that a person born a Muslim remains a Muslim, at pain of death in many cases, its denial of free speech and its general intolerance of 'the other'.

If Griffin is an extremist how is anyone following this ideology not considered so?

Both ideologies have the same policies, that of a group identity that supercedes all others.

Guess Lord Pearson was undiplomatic but you can't say he general thrust is not correct.

Anon
02 November 2009 at 18:31

Fine, as the bnp want.. Kick out all non indiginous people. Buy my property n stuff from me for a fair price n im off to dubai or some place else with better weather. Hold on... Dubai has loads of english! Infact foreingers out number the locals! There are more english christians living abroad than any other. What would happen if every country expelled non indiginous people? England would sink! America would have a population of a few thousand! And so would australia! there are communities in spain thats all english!

England is gettin more and more intollerant. I was born here. I am british! But all this anti muslim andindiginous talk in the media lately.. Im being made to think i dont belong.

These racists not know british history? The british invaded, occupied, plundered, emigrated more than any other. Australia is full of indiginous english aint it? Not only that but they killed of the locals! All south asians know the big diamond on the queens crown wasstolen from india. Infact, britians power grew from plundering! Through the colonial times! This very britian has british people in who dont like foreigners!

john grotrian
02 November 2009 at 18:59

In a democratic, secular society an ideology like Islam is radical...its active and professed hatred of homosexuals, its sexism, its anti-semitism, its desire for Muslim supremacy, its insistence that a person born a Muslim remains a Muslim, at pain of death in many cases, its denial of free speech and its general intolerance of 'the other'.

copy right: Mr. Alan Stoddart

Well said. Now, let us wait for the fatwas - because you have stated the truth!

An intolerant religion, that is fighting time. Any religion that can't adapt, or refuses to do so, has inheritant weaknesses - lets face it - any religion which is looked at "under the microscope of logic" can't go for a day more. Belief is a personal thing - religion is a rabble rouser, and a killer. Look back over at history - and look at the present - and then look to the future - Islam is not the peaceful religion it has become. Why? Because criminals have hijacked it.

EnragedBrit
02 November 2009 at 20:01

Anon says -

"England is gettin more and more intollerant. I was born here. I am british! But all this anti muslim andindiginous talk in the media lately.. Im being made to think i dont belong....This very britian has british people in who dont like foreigners!"

First of all - If you are really British - learn to spell the word "Britain." Then, before you start slagging off Britain for its Empire, take look at Isam.

Moslems hacked their way halfway across the globe, destroyed more advanced civilisations such as the Persian and Byzantine Empires, massacred hundreds of thousands of people, enslaved millions, forced millions to convert at the point of a sword, and raped and pillaged from Spain to India.

People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Compared with the barbaric conquests of Islam, the British Empire was a model of tolerance.

alan stoddart
02 November 2009 at 21:09

Islam has imposed the longest and most brutal occupation and colonisation in history. Whilst the British Empire brought civil society, human rights, democracy and economic prosperity to half the world what did Islam bring when the Arabs rode over the hills with a sword in one hand and a Koran in the other?

What did Mark Twain see in the 1880's:

It seems to me that all the races and colors and tongues of the earth must be represented among the fourteen thousand souls that dwell in Jerusalem. Rags, wretchedness, poverty and dirt, those signs and symbols that indicate the presence of Moslem rule more surely than the crescent-flag itself, abound. Lepers, cripples, the blind, and the idiotic, assail you on every hand, and they know but one word of but one language apparently -- the eternal "bucksheesh."

Has life improved since then? What does Tariq Ali say of Pakistan?:

Why is there so much...‘…obscene abject poverty, illiteracy, mass unemployment, lack of basic amenities for countless millions in Islamic Pakistan?’ asks Tariq Ali

The Mullahs in Pakistan were often regarded by most people as ‘…objects of ridicule, widely regarded as dishonest, hypocritical and lazy, their path in life chosen not from religious fervour but in order to earn a crust….pilferers, perverts and parasites’ to quote Tariq Ali

If Mohammed based his revelations upon those of Jesus something is lost in translation...how did he conceive that the precept of the Koran is perpetual war against all who deny that Mohammed is the Prophet of God.

Jesus says 'I desire mercy not sacrifice.'

All Muslims who have been torn from their true heritage and ancient philosophies and religions should consider this:

'You have taken the east from me; you have taken the west from me; you have taken what is before me and what is behind me; you have taken the moon, you have taken the sun from me; and my fear is great that you have taken God from me!'

alan stoddart
02 November 2009 at 22:56

Muslims hide their racism behind a veil of religious precept and entitlement. It seems to have become perfectly acceptable to hold and express these views as long as under the cover of faith and divine guidance. It is very worrying and I would hate to be treated the same way.

Elizabeth Burton
03 November 2009 at 06:54

Thank you Alan Stoddart for bringing some sense of reality into this tirade against Lord Pearson who is simply stating the social implications of uncontrolled Islamism, and warning of the unavoidable impact it will have on the culture and traditions of our country if their numbers continue to increase at the present rate. As Alan Stoddart writes, I too have been struck when in some Muslim countries by the swarming hordes on the streets of the poor, downtrodden, the sick and disabled; and it seems that only an elect few have any quality of life, telling the people that this is the will of Allah. If Lord Pearson can wake up the people to the reality of what is being done to our precious country he will have done a great service and we should support him

alan stoddart
03 November 2009 at 08:57

Gina Khan, British female Muslim says:

As a young child and teenager I grew up in an area where the majority was English but there were also Greeks, Chinese, Jamaicans and Indians living in the same community. Everybody got on and respected each other. My parents ran supermarkets, so we were integrated, if not allowed to assimilate as females because of the religion. And now the white people are leaving, the area has disintegrated, and it breaks my heart. Most members of my family have moved out.

The area has been Islamised. Mosques, mini-mosques and madrasas rise up on almost every street corner, but there is nothing for the youth. Drugs and crime has made the area unsafe for young girls. Social services and the police know what is going on. I have witnessed anti-west and anti-Jew posters and leaflets appear in shops run by young bearded Muslims. I watched the Islamists mobilise the Muslim community right under my nose. Before 9/11 the time I could not name it, but I knew something was not right, but it was being done in the name of Islam.

'As I study my religion, and other religions, the more I realise I am not just a Muslim. In a sense I am also a Christian, a Jew, a Sikh, a Hindu, because we all believe in God. I have dialogue with God directly. My love and faith goes beyond the Quran, or prophets and its rituals. My journey is spiritual. The oppressive dogmas and the reactionary clerics, Jihadists and Islamists have blackened the good name of Islam.

But I can choose not to believe what some Imam or scholar tells me by using the brain and heart God gave me to make my own decisions about what is wrong and what is right. It’s important to listen to your own voice and not let the loud voices of Islamic extremists drown our humanity away.'

Tom
03 November 2009 at 09:01

Lord Pearson may be a religious bigot, but that doesn't make him a racist. Islam is a religion, not a race, to suggest otherwise as this article does, is to use the logic of Nick Griffin.

The reality is many people who would welcome Black or Asian Christians into the UK would not welcome a white Muslim. I'm not suggesting they are right, just that it is not necessarily racist.

The allegation that people are breeding too fast has been used in the UK against Catholics, Irish, Gypsies, Blacks, the poor etc etc.

At least all the "Faith Communities" can unite to bash the atheists.

Helen Wright
03 November 2009 at 11:47

ALL religions are disgusting, and ALL religious brain-washing schools should abolished. ALL children should mix together in the same ecuational system, which teaches science and evolution. Only by teaching children together, can real equality be achieved.

And hacking off parts of childrens genitals, "because a God told them to it," should be outlawed immediately.

Superstition can be left to parents, but if children are forced to mix together, religious crap will dwindle and religious wars will dwindle as a consquence.

Children are not born of God, they are born of men and women, and they are the ones responsible for the vile hatred spread by their non existent God.

Heather
03 November 2009 at 11:58

I'm glad someone has finally spoken out against the threat radical islam poses to the UK. Islam coupled with creeping sharia and laws designed to stifle criticism of religion will ensure that he gets my vote.

Craig
03 November 2009 at 15:42

Helen Wright I completely agree..

DaveP
03 November 2009 at 23:30

Islamists practice and demand tolerance when they are a minority. Once they are a majority, that pretence is dropped, and then it is convert, submit or the sword. Such has been the history of this most virulent of ideologies that masquerades as a religion.

I have immense fear that the demographic growth rate of Muslims will eventually lead to the extinction of the cultural and historic identity of Britain. This will happen regardless of the fact that moderate Muslims may constitute a majority in the UK. Therefore the distinction between “moderates” and “radical” Muslims is meaningless. The situation for all non-Muslims, homosexuals and others will become perilous once Muslims become 40% of the population, for that is all that it is required for a Muslim party to become the majority party in parliament.

I have always felt that the sensible way to constitute a nation is on the basis of common language, culture and to an extent ethnicity. This ensures a minimum of friction between those living within such a constituted nation. Experimentation along the line of a multicultural nation, run the risk of civil war, needless deaths of ordinary people, followed by ethnic cleansing. Sometimes, in the aftermath of a major war, it just so happens that a multicultural state comes into being. However, it is callous for social experimenters to play with the lives of people by actually imposing a multicultural nation on a people when there really was no requirement for one.

Jaffer Clarke
04 November 2009 at 11:07

My thread seems to have got a bit unreadable.

It read:

...Michelle Houllebecq's rant against Islam as a religion that is "con" . Islam is a non violent, peace loving religion where to look at the career of the Prophet - who was a diplomat, strategist and beloved leader of his times - demonstrates its nature.

Lord Pearson is careless in supporting an extreme, Netherlandish journalist to attack Islam as extreme.

As a senior politician he should have been much more sensitive to avoid alienating Muslims who, even if moderate, defend themselves against charges of belonging to an "extremist" religion.

Were not the Crusades extreme: but that does not make Christianity an terrorist religion.

No2PC
04 November 2009 at 17:53

Islamophobia as a concept has been invented by the left and certain sections of the muslim community to prevent criticism. If Britain treats its muslims so bad why is the muslim population of Britain increasing 10 times faster that any other group. Hardly genocide is it.

James Cohen
05 November 2009 at 14:27

before judging this man, at least watch the unedited interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQisZM1X8lU

Del
05 November 2009 at 14:32

Shame you link to an edited version of the video. I would give you the proper link but seeing as you are such a putz as to not bother looking in the first place, all I will say it's on youtube. Go find it and comment on facts. Dumb ass

DaveP
05 November 2009 at 16:36

As we now know to our dismay, though we had suspected, that Labour had deliberately set out to replace the natural population of Britain, with a culturally alien population. They did this not for any real benefit, but to have a politically dependent voter base.

I can think of no government in history that has set out to betray its own people. This must be the greatest of all betrayals, and yet, there they are, still in power and drawing their salaries and pensions.

Ross
06 November 2009 at 02:05

The real questions are-

Is this minoirtiy community multiplying faster than native non-Muslim Brits?

Does its membership, and leadership, hold to the barbaric notion that anyone who converts out of it deserves the death penalty?

If so, it is fair, in my view, to expel such primitives from any civilised community.

DaveP
06 November 2009 at 20:11

Ross

Is this minortiy community multiplying faster than native non-Muslim Brits? - YES.

Does its membership, and leadership, hold to the barbaric notion that anyone who converts out of it deserves the death penalty? - YES.

But I suppose your questions were rhetorical anyhow.

Jenny Marshall
07 November 2009 at 19:14

Racism is alive and kicking in the UK. It is scary that racists bigots such as DaveP and the Luddite are probably driving the bus you use to go to work in the morning, or caretakers at your kids school. What a dangerous world we live in.

dominic
08 November 2009 at 02:30

Calling all dumb white liberals! To oppose mass Muslim immigration is not racist (what religion is Islam exactly?), and most people in Europe want to uphold and bolster the Judaeo/Christian/Humanist culture which is superior to the depredations of Islam and Sharia. UKIP under Lord Pearson could indeed broaden its appeal to finally give this country a non racialist centre right party that (shock horror) might actually govern in the interest of most people in this land fed up with our discredited post modern liberal elite. You know, if we get a hung Parliament next time I wouldn't bet against a new centre-right grouping actually winning in the following election. "Trolls" currently working for the New Statesman please take note.

dominic
08 November 2009 at 02:31

I meant of course to ask what race Islam is.

john m
09 November 2009 at 12:37

islam is the product of paedophile bandit the most obnoxious feacal stain upon the pages of history. there is no such thing as a moderate muslim. if you are a muslim then you venerate a man who murdered, robbed, raped and destroyed other cultures whilst proclaiming himself god's prophet. in truth he was the most vile gobbet of hell spawn to walk this earth. there will be a war with islam. at stake is the collective sanity of the human species.

Dave
10 November 2009 at 00:29

Darn right, unfortunately it will probably happen. After all, all you ever here from muslims when you criticise their religion is war on islam! it seems they are itching for a fight with the west.

HenriTOON
19 November 2009 at 21:19

As a white british catholic (family)/athiest I found the magority of these comments entierly more of a threat to the stability and future of this country than any muslim I have ever met (Many... of witch one is in a gay marrage). Its sickens me and frightens me that there can be such bigoted and hate filled people poposing to be patriotic and even sane!! This hate will only lead to a future of termoil within this country. It is threads like this that shatter my hope for humanity. And I thought the UK is surposed to be a beakon of peace, unity and prosperity.