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Men have to be part of feminism, but that doesn't mean they have to run the show.
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Sorry week woman but if there wasn't a law against what Assange allegedly did (relationship rape) your reaction would be different than if there was a law.
Because your reaction would be dependent on the question "what am I going to do next?". And what you are going to do next would be dependent on whether there was a law against it or not.
Not once did i say that rape was not a bad thing. I wouldn't call myself a rape apologist or ally myself with mr dheep's views.
I was actually questioning whether a law against relationship rape is in the best interests of the woman.
What??? After such an event a women would have to decide what she felt about it any way as this would determine her liklihood to report it as a crime! Legislation is neccessary to enable women who do feel they have been exploitated/abused- ie raped- to report said rape as a criminal offence & have it taken seriously as such.
If youre not bothered by your partner 'waking you up' with sex than yay for you- no problem- & you wouldn't be looking to report an offence of rape. But if it does bother you, women should know this does not make them weird or frigid- & there are people you can talk to about it. (furthermore you can definately leave his sorry ass if he doesn't listen to your concerns)
Please remember that rape reporting rates are shockingly low & we should not be further isolating women who have suffered in this way.
Many women are capable of deciding, as are many men, but that doesn't change the fact that under this logic I've raped and been raped hundreds of times, under law at least. It's obviously something that's going to vary from situation to situation, and to label all people who don't explicitly ask for consent rapists is impractical, ignorant, and above all offensive to real victims of rape.
Besides, Mr. Galloway misrepresented what the charges against Assange actually are. He says waking her up with sex is a "misdemeanour", however what he failed to mention in his youtube video was that the woman is also saying she was forced, and furthermore that a condom was not used when she had explicitly stated to use one.
Also what's all this "As a woman" nonsense. Are we to assume that only women are capable of empathy and rational thought when it comes to rape? Surely not, in fact that sounds positively anti-feminist (if we're still talking about equality). In any case men can get raped too, and in fact in many countries, such as the U.S.A., the number of male on male rapes is actually higher than the number of male on female rapes.
How can I begin to count the many ways in which this intensely facile comment misses the point?
It does not meant you have raped hundreds of times, assuming that person who slept with consented; although if you have literally initiated sex with a sleeping woman hundreds, I fear for your partners. Quite disturbing.
And yes, 'as a woman' I do feel *somewhat* qualified to comment that, contrary to earlier insinuations, women are capable of determining whether or not they've been raped based on what has actually happened to them, rather than being led by the legal definitions. You know, because I'm a woman, so I know a little about what goes on in our little minds. That's what's with all this 'as a woman nonsense'.
And finally, about whether or not we're discussing male on male rape, in what way does that change the point that's actually being discussed, which is *consent* - when men are raped, yes they also didn't consent - so what's your point? In this case, we are talking about women because, hello, Assange is accused of raping *women*. God MRAs are tiresome. We can talk about rape without it having to directly impinge on your rights as men. Please change the record.
Agree with all of this. And just to add- where on earth did he hear more rape victims are male than female in the USA? Total idiot.
I am female...
You can still be an MRA as a female, you know.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free"
Johann Wolfgang von Geothe 1749-1832
You refer to "Assange’s actions" as though he had already been found guilty of something with which he has not yet even been charged.
Why are the wimmin not protesting about Charlene Downes and Paige Chivers?
Pro-feminist, feminist. Let's not mince words.
We all stand to gain from greater equality, I certainly do not want to spend fifty hours a week in the office on the assumption a wife at home is getting everything else in life done for me -- no one, men or women alike, has someone at home to do the rest of it. Men do not want to miss their children's lives any more than women do.
The values which stand for women finding a fair balance between career and home are the same values which will allow men to unyoke a little from career and contribute to their partners' lives.
You refer to "Assange’s actions". I think you should have said Assange's "alleged actions" as he has denied the allegations.
I know a lot of people have decided that Assange is guilty, but I'm rather old-fashioned and believe that someone is innocent until proven guilty.
I been on holiday, does anyone know what's going on? : //Woman in question said she was half-asleep, she gave consent, “couldn't be bothered to go on about wanting a condom used”.
Woman in question said she only 'thought' the condom may have been deliberately broken, did not see if it was broken. 12 days after the incident she gave the police a broken condom as evidence, no DNA from either her of JA found.// Okay, I get that.. But?.. Red notices. Arrest in all circumstances. Vienna Hague 'A written threat is not a threat'! Assange “No threat” 'Rapist'! Galloway Speaks! Manufacturing consent is back! The Guardian password club has a message! What have I missed to cause this!!
Since when did a guy have to be a feminist to not agree with defending rape? Surely that's just being a decent human being?
Sure men can be feminists: theres no shortage of manginas and male-slaves out there.
But real men are AntiFeminists.
Advice to whining little ladies: go kick rocks and find a real job to contribute to society instead of "blogging" about your inferiority complexes.
Excellent article, I particularly appreciate the contribution, albeit small, of class which, essentially, needs spotlighting, and expansion into wider platforms of discourse. Furthermore, the imperative for all people to support feminism as a truly revolutionary medium, through which we all can effect a decisive impact upon our society and its politics is vital. And finally, what needs further emphasis is the disgracefully enclosed contribution women are permitted to have within politics. The social interrogation which feminists are right to uphold, must, be coupled with the a political activism through which legislation can implemented and respectively revised so, we, can fundamentally improve the quality of women's lives.
Now that Gallowank has officially joined a religious cult whose founder was a rapist and a child molester, I suppose it is inevitable that he should be uninterested in sex crimes. When are the feminists gonna realise that they have had a lovely time under the white western "patriarchy"?
No, dears, your real problem is gonna come when Gallowank and his fellow islamocrazies bring in Sharia Law. I have NEVER heard any feminist protest against child mutilation, polygamy, forced marriage of twelve year olds to their fifty year old uncles, honour killings, or any of the other culturally enriching folk customs which have come our way over the last few decades courtesy of the Religion of Peace. But, its their culcher, innit?
And you spends a great deal of your time listening to feminists I assume. I don't if you've ever listened to a woman in your life, including the unfortunate Mrs Snith, if there is one.
Mrs Snith seems perfectly happy with a beer swilling rugby playing macho type with no interest in feminism, thank you. There are still lots of us left.
and then she has to come home to you.....
very good Jankass: even made me laugh.
Apologies, this was supposed to send once. Damn you, internet!
Without trying to sound like an "equalist" or, even worse- an MRA, I think the idea that men either want to make feminism "about them" or take charge of the movement as a whole is a misguiding and an illogical move for those in feminist campaigns or action groups. The idea that men should be barred from a movement that is about gender equality and the breaking up of an inherently unfair patriarchy is absurd.
A lot of men genuinely care and agree with the beliefs of feminist movement, and want to help achieve those aims. Patronising or belittling those in that situation is inherently counterproductive from a strategic point of view- surely the more the merrier in movements? Forgive me if I'm repeating the obvious.
I agree - that was what I was arguing for in my article actually: that men can and should be feminists
"Can men be feminists"? Not this misogynistic-anti-semitic Jew hater... Ps The people of Bradford West are still waiting for their parliamentarian representative to start earning his £65.ooo plus expenses and allowances and when we say start representing us.... we mean the whole community not just the chosen few.
I've had a heart wrenching week of self realisation over all the nasty reports regarding 'rape'.
When I was younger, I used to be sexually involved with a womyn who considered herself a femminist. I was probably attracted to her for her fiesty and progressive thinking and attitude. Who wouldn't be?
However, having read a weeks worth of 'what is rape?' articles, I've now learned more (yeah I admit I was quite happy being ignorant about it till now) about sexual coersion, I too am now under the impression that I, a straight white Cis male, am a 'victim'(?) of sexual abuse. I still haven't managed to work out what my 'male priveledge' has had me believe happened, but i know I bottled it up and took it on the chin like we Brits do.
Femminists are people too, and people (persons?) who seek power or dominance over others, are just as able to 'rape', abuse, have bad sex ettiquate, like anyone else regardless of sexual orientation.
Whilst I am taking steps to try and come to terms with all this (I feel a total wally) it reinforces my belief that we people are all 'equal'...
Equally able to be horrid to one another.
I'm thrilled men are stepping up and coming out against their rape apologist brothers. They deserve support not condemnation for doing what any decent person should do. Even if it is somewhat late in the game.
I believe that men can be what may be considered a feminist. I was brought up by my Mother, son of an abusive, deadbeat Father. I saw first hand the strength, resolve and how amazing women are. As I grew up and began to hear about these peculiar restraints on women, negative attitudes and various other things, I could not understand it, it seemed so ridiculous to me.
Whether or not you want to put the label feminist to this doesn't bother me, I don't particularly like the term, seems to me only when this title becomes redundant can progress be considered to have been made. I'm no more a feminist than a 'maleist' I believe all people should be equal. Equal opportunities, rights and pay.
I would have many names and labels for George Galloway (pictured) but feminist isn't one of them. His comments were disgusting. He sounded like he was suggesting consent means he has you captive for the night.
As a trans woman and a feminist I could have really done without having to read "chicks with dicks" being used as a pejorative. We are part of feminism too.
I'm sorry that you felt it was pejorative; it wasn't intended that way and I did think twice before using it. It was just meant to be wordplay based on the idea of Freud's penis envy as referred to elsewhere in the article. But I can understand that this might not have come across. Of course, as I tried to make clear in my article, anyone can be a feminist; it's what they think that matters, not which genitals they have.
It wouldn't be very feminist if they couldn't now would it.
P.S. Maybe Americans should create a #FemalesAgainstRape hashtag given that more men get raped than women in America... (That's because of their penal system for anyone left wondering)
@PlainJohnSmith: And you, sir, are why we can't have nice things. FML
"there is potential for men’s involvement in feminism to be taken as a sign that women can’t "manage their own movement"; that all we ladies need are some "balls" and we’ll get what we want. "
Isn't there "potential" for just about anything you care to imagine? Who is 'taking' what as this sign?
Whilst I largely agree with this article, there is something that's been bugging me about the backlash to the #menagainstrape tag. Whilst I understand the position of people who saw it as men trying to take charge of feminism, I think there's an equal danger in making rape (and, specifically, male attitutes towards consent) an exclusively feminist issue. Men aren't, (or at least shouldn't be), outraged by rape simply 'on behalf of women' and whilst women should definitely be in charge of feminism, it's unfair to expect feminism to have to drag men away from rape culture. Men have a responsibility to change themselves and destroy the rape-culture they helped create. It should be guided by feminism, but it shouldn't be their problem, and describing any attempt to attack rape culture (even an ill-received one such as this) as men trying to lead feminism is misplaced and counter-productive.
I agree with you; I don't subscribe to the idea that men can't be part of the fight against rape and sexism. That was what I was trying to argue actually - they can and should be part of the fight. The only issue that I did have with the hashtag was that I don't think it really says anything, since men like Assange, Galloway, Ryan and Akin are all nominally 'men against rape'; they just disagree with the law and with common human decency as to what rape actually is. Hope that clarifies my stance.
Yes I don't think they do disagree it is rape. Nor do they deny what Assange did was a bad thing. Galloway made that clear. What they disagree with, in reality, is that there should be a law against relationship rape. They do not think it is a good idea to have a law against relationship rape. This view is illustrated by men in the comment sections below articles saying things like: "it isn't rape", "calling this rape diminishes the meaning of the word", "calling this rape is an insult to the real victims of rape", "if this is rape then all men are guilty of rape". These aren't bad men. These aren't even men that would engage in these so called lesser types of rapes. The reason they deny relationship rape is rape is because the power is in the hands of the woman to decide whether she wants to get upset and make the man take a trip the police station even though he didn't intend to cause her any harm. They think that it is better for the couple, and for women, for the couple to resolve the issue themselves without interference from the state.
Actually, they are bad men, and if I were a man I would be horrified to be put in the same category as them - all men are categorically *not* guilty of rape; thankfully, I have never been in a relationship with anyone who thinks they can have sex with me whenever they feel like it - just like I would never assume a boyfriend of mine must have sex whenever I feel like it. Rape is rape is rape and actually, James, the majority of rapes occur within relationships. A woman doesn't just emotionally and illogically decide when she feels that she wants to get upset. A woman who has been raped, as a comment above points out, if she has had a penis inside any part of her body and she didn't want it there, AND the man could not reasonably think that she consented. So please, read laws before commenting with your rape myth theories. They are repellent. And god help any woman who ever makes the mistake of sleeping with you.
Sorry, my criticism was more of the twitter response to the hash tag, rather than of your article. But thankyou for clarifying.
I wonder what Galloway's view would be if we infidels helped ourselves to pakistani moslem women in Bradford West and Tower Hamlets in the same way that his fellow islamist nutter Assange helped himself to two Swedish women? Surely not rape?
Feminism campaigns for special rights and privileges for women (sigh...yes it does. No, it's not about 'equality'....no, no it isn't...). 'Patriarchy' doesn't exist, at best some sort of oligarchy does. Yes, men pretty much created all the things women celebrate as achivements of the womens liberations campaign (the Pill, Access to Higher Education Act 1964 etc.) . Women control 70% of all consumer spending and 65% of all personal wealth in the UK. Women comprise more than 50% of voters and 53% of the population. In short, men are concerned with equality, women want to secure privilege and work to gain more.
Why would men want any part of it? Men should go to avoiceformen.com and educate themselves.
Answer - Aye - how else do you explain the 'gay' ones ?!
Seeing that the islamist fundamentalist Galloway does not believe that stoning women to death. hanging Gays, butchering Jews or ethnicly cleansing Christians amounts to a criminal offence - his backward views on rape are hardly surprising!
The damage caused by limited stereotypical assumptions is exemplified by the tabloid press in Britain or many of the current republican candidates in the US. Simplistic binary thinking with little imagination and a lot of anger or hate against those seen as different.
How funny is the previous commentator with their anti-intellectulism, it is ok not to understand but to put others down for your lack of knowledge. Not smart.
A Masters in Gender? What the bloody hell is that? Another YTS scheme cooked up by the good people of Hackademia. It really is hard to take feminism seriously. As someone once said: "I'm all in favour of the women's movement. I hate it when they just lie there." Ho ho.
Would you prefer commentators to be uneducated?
Great idea! Then we can bring everyone down to your level
Caroline Criado-Perez is a freelance journalist and feminist campaigner. She is also the co-founder of The Women's Room and tweets as @CCriadoPerez.