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47 comments from readers

bhutanman
01 February 2008 at 15:13

here we go again. another article another bhutan basher. Bill Frelick is not a Refugee Advisor he is a refugee creator. When they don't scrutinize the people who are claiming to be refugees carefully, they in fact create opportunistic refugee wannabes looking for a free bite. The refugees have been eating up $5/day in a region where most live under $1. So what's the surprise?

he says " The government enacted discriminatory citizenship laws directed against ethnic Nepalis, that stripped about one-sixth of the population of their citizenship...". Now how can citizenship be stripped of illegal immigrants??

for more on Bill Frelick, you may look at this old discussion:

https://www.bhutantimes.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topi...

Bhutanbeing
01 February 2008 at 16:51

bhutan man or women (who think they are the real bhutanese) would like to display a psuedo logic. They like to talk about themselves and cannot stand others making fair comments on their affairs. Who says, on what basis, that they were illegal immigrants? what makes them illegal, just the drukpa edict? It is time that Bhutanese realized that without their tolerance for fair citicism they cannot be part of a civilized world where fair criticism

jschmidt
01 February 2008 at 18:31

In the end it doesn't matter what people like Bill Frelick who can't seem to live without trying to help allegedly victimized people do or say. Ethnic Nepalis have pretty much demonstrated that they are not capable creating any sort of a proper civil society. Just look at what a horrible state of affair Nepal is in. I understand and support the Bhutanese people decision to make sure that the these migrants do not overwhelm their country. The united states and other countries have graciously decided to take this problem off of Bhutan's hand. Why then does Bill Frelick still feel the need to villify Bhutan with terms like ethnic cleansing?

Bhutan Watcher.
01 February 2008 at 23:24

This article gives true indepth of Bhutan and its dictatorial regime. When more then one sixth of the country's population lives in exile in a miserable situations questing for Human Rights and Democracy in their country and wanting to return back home with honour and dignity, Bhutan's absolute ruler says he gave democracy to its people and is going to organize elections. Only the fools will believe in such propagandas. Gone are the days when it used to keep everything opaque and used to do all sorts of torture to its citizens by arbitrarily dividing them in various groups on all basis. These days southern Bhutanese who are living inside Bhutan are facing tremendous pressure to leave Bhutan quitely. They are denied movement, educations, health facilities, citizenship, employments, promotions, scholarships, right to stand as a candidates in various so called eye washes elections. When the attitude of the despot does not change towards southerners, how can we ever imagine that the same despot could take back its citizens, who were evicted during the famous ethnic cleansing of early 1990s? Even if it takes few it will treat them as a slaves and torture daily in one form or the other.

The democracy, that is blessed by the despot is nothing but a hidden policy to rule the country on his wives behalf. Jigme wanted to wash his sins but it will never be washed rather it will ruin his life day by day.

maelstrom101
02 February 2008 at 05:02

This is an issue which has ballooned way out of proportion. Here is a simple fact which people must know. The number of people in the camps BEFORE the UNHCR started giving aid was about 5000. In less than one year after it established aid, the numbers ballooned to 100,000 thanks to no effort by the the UNHCR to control traffic into the camps by validating if these people were even from Bhutan. Its either that or the 5000 had the virility of rabbits. The majority were poor nepalese farmers with NEPALESE citizenships just claiming to be refugees for the aid.

Bhutan's most current census stated the population around 700,000 people, and this supposed "ethnic cleansing happened almost 20 years ago. Even now Bhutan does not have the man power nor the resources to expel 1/7 of its population! The absurdity of these claims are only surpassed by the animosity placed against Bhutan by poorly informed don quixotic souls who are still blindly charging at their windmills. Don't spout rhetoric sir, please supply facts!

kelaya
02 February 2008 at 09:29

i think there are some mad critics amoung the good ones who always try to support the eviled problematic humans just looking from one angle and one side. it may be true that some of true bhutanese nepali refugees may be suffering but it was all due to their own egos and mistakes. i think every country try to preserves their tradition and culture and likewise bhutanese also have their own right to preserve their tradition and culture. in this regard our govt mainly tried to promote national langauge and dress code officially but practice of any religion is allowed. so the bhutanese nepali wanted to establish NEPAL'S tradition and culture in bhutan and even they do not want to follow simple national dress code and langauge which is just an official. still many napeli in bhutan they are waiting to do or happen something bad to bhutan. the first thing is their attitude that destroys their own lives. govt is doing right thing to its country. for instance if DRUKPAS get settled in napel and does same like bhutanese napeli, the napel govt will do same to Drukpas. Rome is Rome, Napel is Napel AND SO LET BHUTAN REMAIN AS BHUTAN. whoever the big or small, qualified or unqualified, critics etc. don't try to criticise our KING and GOVT. they are doing absolutely right thing to bhutan till now. Drukpas only the regrate is who ???have given or allowed those problematic and eviled humans to settle in the southern region. if not the bhutan wiil remain as it is.

Vishpurush
02 February 2008 at 14:14

It is hard to find a sensible comments from Ngalong. What happens if every body starts talking about your historical past. Kicked out of Tibet centuries ago and parasited on the Dragon Kingdom, the land that did not belong to you? You were savages then and show the same trait even today. History tells that you are decedents of Tibetans. There is no harm in being a decendent, but people living in a glass house must not throw stones at others. Give one good example of what you have done to the country. Parasited on government generiousity and international donations.

The world still things Bhutan is like a Zoo, they clamour to visit it.

Kboy
02 February 2008 at 15:31

The story is flawed from the start itself. By terming the refugee problem an ethnic cleansing or an attempt at it by the Bhutanese government, Mr Frelick not only has blown this issue way out of its proportion, he has also deliberately tried to sweep the real issue under the carpet.

The problem cannot be solved by creating a suspension of disbelief for the aloof international community. And neither can it be by sensationalizing this whole issue by using terms which has a greater magnitude and meaning that it is used for.

I understand, as a Refugee Policy director at Human Rights Watch, Mr Frelick must have had close acquaintances with the refugees. He speaks for the refugees and their problems.

And therein lies his weakness. His views are completely biased. He sees through the eyes of the refugees alone while he leaves the other side completely in the dark. Not only is the story a blatant remark, an accusation without sufficient proof and supportive facts, it is unethical on his part to be partial, unreasonable and illogical.

umoktan
02 February 2008 at 16:43

After reading all the comments this is what I have to say as a refugee. Please don't say that people leave their age old homes out of their ownwill to become refugees. Southern Bhutan where most of the people of Nepalese ethnicity live grow enough cash crops and paddy enough to provide four square meals a day to it population. Why would we leave everything our forefathers built over the decades with their sweat and blood to live in the temporary huts in refugee camps. Now someone suggested that most of the refugees are not Bhutanese. Do you think UNHCR will let anybody without Bhutanese identity or authentic evidence of being Bhutanese will let us in. For your information they have very strict rules in place which are framed over the years of their experience of dealing with refugees all over the world. UNHCR has been working with refugees since early 50s. People of Bhutan will not understand the rules and regulation of an international organisation as they have been ruled without one, without written constitution till now.Everything works randomly in Bhutan. Their Constitution is still in draft form. They solve problems as it arises.

Someone said refugees are illegal immigrants, if the illegal immigrants at this scale were residing in Bhutan then what was the local Govt. authorities were doing in the Districts. Bhutan is a small country everybody knows everybody. Even now 17 years after living Bhutan I can recognize most of the names when I read Bhutanese newpapers.

umoktan
02 February 2008 at 17:47

Ethnic cleansing is ethnic cleansing , be it in large scale as in Kosovo or in small scale as in Bhutan. To get the balance views in our case a person need to visit the Southern Bhutan where refugees come from. Bhutan Govt. has not allowed a single reporter to visit Souhtern Bhutan for fear of coming out of true picture. They maintain it is not safe to visit South, they just conducted National Council election in December which went without hitch as reported by their mouthpiece Kuensel. Reporters could have seen with their own eyes how many people from other parts of Bhutan have been resetlled in the South on the land of evicted people. If those land belonged to the illegal immigrants then how come the local Govt. officers let them register in their names. Like I said everybody knows everybody in Bhutan, an illegal immigrant can easily be identified. King was happy to distribute the illegally snatched land to others. Shame on you King. I hope you know it is not right.

I will write more when I have time.

maelstrom101
03 February 2008 at 02:35

There were NO forms of screening of ANY kind in the UNHCR camps. That is the crux of the issue. The majority of the 5000 who originally left Bhutan were COERCED by the dissidents of their own ethnicity who left the country. There is no "stuggle" for democracy in Bhutan. They are peacefully transitioning. The bomb blasts that occured a week ago are tainting this monumental and progressive step. Rebels who claim regret for possible loss in life and still plant bombs? This is ridiculous. The ends don't justify the means. One nation, one people is a term often misconstrued by those who are quick to find fault. One people doesn't mean one race. One people means striving towards a nation with people living in harmony; something which has almost come to fruition in Bhutan.

Maya
03 February 2008 at 04:53

maelstorm, for your kind information UNHCR was not formed for Bhutanese refugees, they do have established procedure in place. Just by saying that they don't you are making a fool of yourself.

And regarding the recent bomd explosion, it is easy to blame the refugees if anything goes wrong in Bhutan. Didn't the bombs in Samtse and Thimphu explode next to Peoples' Democratic Party offices. What message do you get from that.

Tanz
03 February 2008 at 09:29

I pity for refugees.

Wel, u know every country has a rule,sometime new rules r created for good of a country.At first new rules ll b awesome if we're not familiar.But with time it'll get used to it.

It so happened in Bhutan in early 90's where our govt made rules where every citizen must wear 'gho & kira' at office,school,market & functions. Before introduction of this rule, ppl used to wear paint & shirt in the school & office. Because of this govt ve enacted this rule to preserve our culture.

So citizen must follow the rules of a country. 'Bhutan is a monarchy country'. But southern ppl acted like democracy, dint follow rule of a country instead revolted. If a citizen goes against a govt he/she should b punished. If these ppl ve abide by rule there wont b a problem called 'refugee'. I'd say these ppl ve created their own destiny by going against a country law.

Again think 'why these ppl ve selected nepal as their refugee place?' There must b strong reasons,i think everybody knows it. Keep guessing if u dont...

kelaya
03 February 2008 at 09:34

well bhutan govt stands alone from one side and the refugee is supported by many countries and organisations and had many rounds of talks. still the things is not going well and problem is not solved even after 17 years. why???. i see the commences that only the bhutan govt is blamed for refugee problem. govt representatives have talked many times in napel not in bhutan. if regugees have rights bhutan govt is on wrong side and by any means refugees should be accepted back to bhutan. i don't think bhutan govt have blindly rejected the matter in those big discussions.so do not exaggerate or make wrong comment . i think many of us are wasting precious time in this way right?. there was a system of resettlement for the people in the pass generations and also still we have the trend and will be in future. so why should be blame some one or others. unused or empty land can not be kept like that or keep ready for noglops as they wish. they are not VIP for bhutan. there is no harm being decendent but one should not trun aganst the country where one live. even if the ngalongs are decendent of tibetan ngalongs have never trun against country to establish tibetan tradition and culture. bhutan's traditoin and culture is unique from tibet sarting from way of living, speaking, writing etc. bhutan has many tribes like sharchops, khengpas, bumthabs, mangdibs, kurtobes etc other than southern napeli and ngalongs. the country's law and orders was passed same to all the tribes, but why they act so smart and truned against king , country and govt destroying peace and stablelity. why this people have pecular attitude. not only in bhutan. where ever this people go they will do same and create problem. as a ngalong, though i could not do good to the country, i have never trun against it or created problem.

maelstrom101
03 February 2008 at 10:28

This is disheartening. I never stated that the UNHCR was formed just for Bhutan. Doesn't it seem irresponsible to start doling out aid without establishing the authenticity of those receving it?

In adddition the PDP is a REGISTERED party in the country. In fact it is one of the two major parties in Bhutan and is headed by former Minister Lyonpo Sangay. I never attributed the bombings to them. Doing this would be like attributing intelligence to certain emotionally charged outbursts. I will respond to all these illogical claims just like Bhutan: with patience,equanimity and resilience.

tobi
04 February 2008 at 20:25

I'd just like to point out that back in the 90s the problem really started escalating when the more violent of the nepalese started attacking school teachers and anyone they saw wearing Gho/Kira (the country's national dress). These troubled individuals were eventually expelled (rather than imprisoned) and they coerced (through more violence) a number of Nepalese who were satisfied living in Bhutan to leave with them. Originally the group in total numbered around 5000 but the camp soon grew as supposed refugees flooded in lapping up the free "Aid".

"These refugees insist that return to Bhutan is the only acceptable solution and they are increasingly intimidating refugees who want to accept the US offer - through beatings, burning huts, and death threats."

Judging from this extract I'd say the same lovable psychos that caused this whole mess are still pretty active. Their actions are bizzare... spouting a sob story on one hand while actively brutalizing their own fellows who seem to have found an acceptable solution to their situation.

umoktan
05 February 2008 at 06:34

Tobi, by now the International community know what led the 100,000 southern Bhutanese leave Bhutan. There is no need to repeat the same old version of Goverment of Bhutan like an old tape recorder, there are no takers..

wangdipema
05 February 2008 at 22:08

The so called intellectuals of Bhutan who have written against the refugees and the work of Bill Frelick above might have failed to realise that humanity is not worshiping a king but understanding the way you live. Although thoughts like these make but very little sense I still get irritated by reading such comments - and interestingly such comments are probably from people who know what's going on - but would prefer to be dishonest to themselves and the country as a whole. You might please the king and a few bunches of corrupted people who rule the country and might get their favour but never are you going to get peace within yourself. Stop telling loads of lies to yourself and stand for what is right. Live like a human being and like a true follower of Lord Buddha. The Southern Bhutanese without doubt have contributed more to the development of the country than most of you traitors who carry a dagger inside and show a false face outside. It's high time you realise the stupidity of your sense and stop senseless comments on Bill Frelick's work of divine. Try hard now to make the most corrupted and the suppressor of peace and democracy of the world to look like genuine for you have but very short time when truth wins and you will lick you own ass.

I Love Bhutan
06 February 2008 at 06:33

Thank you Bill Frick. For the article. I have read all the comments. thank for them. Every points in the articles are true and all comments are also correct. But the issues of these people living in camps in eastern nepal is not a matter of joks. If some one says that they are living for to survive, then why not all welcome the proposal of UAS to take them in thie country. Just read the news of bomb blast in Bhutan. If all the people of the bhutan are loyal to the king as one of the fello who wrote the comment said, then who are the people involve in the bomb blast? If the govt goes on putting pressure on peopel, naturally people will come up with weopans. so it is good for the govt to talk to them and solve otherwise, more innocent bhutanese will have to be killed, may be people or police.

Once again thank you Bill, bring up this type of issues to understand the really what had happened in 1990 to sourthern bhutanese.

maelstrom101
06 February 2008 at 07:02

Mr. I love Bhutan, for someone who read the article and notes that "every points" is true and correct, you seemed to have spelt the author's name wrong.....Mr. Frick? Ludicrous....

I have already given sound counters to all this slander. Give me something new, An intelligent point. Not this biased zealot-like rantings. It gets old...

wangdipema
06 February 2008 at 17:40

Maelstrom101 like the way u have commented and presented urself as if u have mastered the language - u might have read - 'what's in a name to which you call rose by any other name smells as sweet'

I am a Bhutanese and live in Bhutan but like you I not blind. You must either be a bureaucrat or a lunatic follower of the royal family and some other in the chain to rule the country like the two parties leader. Have u read the constitution? Do u understand what it aims and and -if u r a general citizen of the country - where does it leave you?

I am totally against the bombing and the so called Maoist and who but have no ideology at all and mind u they are just a bunch of thugs who in the name of democracy want to kill people. As a Bhutanese who has seen the degrading status of the country and the declining morality of the people (like you). And will you stop establishing the authenticity of the people in the camps- I guess we have seen the whole southern belt of our country empty after the army chased everyone away. Bhutan is a racist country and you are a racist too – no matter how much u deny. Remember there is no place for racism and totalitarian regimes, people like you will be soon gone.

maelstrom101
07 February 2008 at 06:24

Here is a summary of the things that just pokes holes in this "Bhutanese refugee" propaganda.

1) 5000 can not magically become 100,000 in less than one year

2) there were NO proper screening process when the UNHCR started doling out aid.

3) Even if it wanted to Bhutan does not have the capability to expel 1/7 of its population.

4) When Bhutan sent senior officials to the camps to try to establish a screening and validation process, they were treated horrendously and beaten by these People in the Camps.

I'm bored and nauseated by these pathetic rants insulting establishments and ways of life that have ensure peace,happiness and the sovereign nature of Bhutan.

WangdiPema you sounded almost intelligent until you told me to "stop establishing the authenticity of the people in the camps." I'm not establishing their authenticity, I'm establishing the falsehood of the majority of them. I feel great empathy for all those true Bhutanese who were coerced into leaving their homelands, but the rest are disillusioned,indoctrinated and completely lost. That is something you have in common with them.

If you don't like the country WangdiPema, then simply leave. I will continue to respond with patience,equanimity and resilience. I'm tenacious and firm, just like Bhutan.

proudtobebhutanese
07 February 2008 at 06:57

n no im not a ngalong,so there it is--bhutans not one race,dont look for faults!!im frm the east so tht make me frm a different race but we(ngalongs,sharchops n brokpas)have one thing in common-whts tht??==decency n sanity,i.e we follow the rules n regulations like "humanbeings",basically we'r responsible citizens of the dragon kingdom!!!

we dont go around chopping ppl up for wearing their national dress do we--tht shits crazy!!its good tht USA is offering them refuge cuz if i were to choose,the only place id send such ppl is-A REHAB,a correction center,for gods sake,theyr insane!!!who the hell chops off lil kids heads??monks??old women??old men??teachers??my blood pressure goes up when i think of all the trouble these ppl have caused.

ungrateful people

proudtobebhutanese
07 February 2008 at 07:09

and wangdi pema..if thts ur name--dont talk about declining morality,cuz as u can see ud be the BIGGEST victim if there wus something going on lik tht,u talk about the constitution n wher it leaves us..the countrys doing its best--wher do u wana be??u tell us-wher the hell do u wana end up!!!??u wana be the king??the leader of a political party??je-khenpo??im sure u have clothes on ur body,a roof over ur head n food on ur table--so be grateful instead of whining like an old lady over things tht dont concern u.u wana support the author n the people tht he wrote about -y dont u go join them in japa,im sure theyd be realy glad to take u in,oh wait..i forgot there is no formalities so u mite as well just walk into the concentration camp.jeez u people!!whts wrong with u--the TRUTH IS THE GODDAMNED TRUTH!!!!!dont fool around--we'r not lunatics or crazy followers of the royal family,we'r just sane people unlike u,if deres any lunatic scribbling on this whole damn page-its YOU!!!man,my fingers hurt.

prashant
07 February 2008 at 10:04

democracy was what the former king wanted .democracy doesnot mean having a country of only one race.the ethnic cleansing done by the bhutenese govt is unacceptable from a country who wants democracy. sudden bomb attack may be the starting of further unstability in the country which sought to be a peace ful one .why dont the y(bht govt ) follow the way its neighbour India has followed ,country with mix race and a strong democratic country providing 100% freedom to all race.thant you.

kelaya
07 February 2008 at 15:29

wangdipema is real ngolop still in bhutan one leg out and one leg in. wangdipema does not mean he is drukpa. he used to be no. one protester against the king, govt and the country in bhutandaily.com forum. not only in japa there are noglops still in bhutan. only those people's helping hands are responsible of recent boom blast. their attitude is not at all upright. if govt catch them and deal them according to law , then it is said discrimination. if govt is protecting its own unique tradition and culture, it is said ethnic cleansing. horn bill's researched solution will further shake the land of thunder dragon. its not so enchanting. those who give supportive comment for mr. bill, does not talk about cause and effect. they try to talk only their positive things and others negetive things. please try to measure both sides negetive and positive. so there lies the truth.

One Person
07 February 2008 at 17:11

I wonder… what would the world be saying if this expulsion situation had happened in a developed, “democratic”, “first-world” nation, say for instance the United States? In the United States there is a Hispanic population that has grown by leaps and bounds in recent decades. Many of those people are not U.S. citizens, but have managed to sneak in and become settled families who contribute to the country. What if the United States, speared on by states like California, Arizona and others who see their resources being swallowed up by non-citizens and are afraid of being taken over by those newcomers, made an effort to deport all of the illegals, including those whose families have been in the U.S. for several generations and have become quite established? What if most of the deportees were Mexican or from South American countries and instead of being reabsorbed back into their countries of origin, they got say Mexico to set up refugee camps? What if Mexico then petitioned the UN for aid for the camps? What if because of that aid the people in the camps had more food and shelter and medical care than the people outside of the camps and so other Hispanic people from all over impoverished South America & Central American areas swelled the ranks of those camps because they wanted to eat too and had no better place to go? Would the world cry out that the U.S. must take these people back? Would the world crying out be right? Do squatters have inalienable rights to land and country? Does the country where they chose to squat have a moral obligation to support and integrate them? Does that country’s obligation increase in direct proportion to the amount of time the squatters managed to remain in the country?

Back to Bhutan… Why is it that the King has poured more resources into the southern districts to establish schools and medical facilities and businesses than he put into Northern and Eastern areas? And why were these efforts undermined by blowing up or trashing those schools, medical facilities and businesses? In whose interest was that? Surely it is not in the interest of either the King or the Lhotshampa, is there then a third party with a hidden agenda? Has everyone forgotten the lesson of Sikkim?

There seems to be a lot of armchair quarterbacking regarding Bhutan. As for democracy, who says it’s the perfect system? All democracy really means is that various groups of rich people politically fight for the right to run a country dictating policies that promote their own best interests and contribute to their bottom lines while the poor and the middle class majority are mollified by the illusion that they somehow have a say in the process and have some control. If Bhutan designs a system of democracy that is a different flavor from other “democratic” societies, good for them! Perhaps it will be better for people and other growing things. Oh , by the way, I’m a U.S. citizen.

proudtobebhutanese
07 February 2008 at 22:03

the case is different here--spanish ppl living illegally in america dont attack american citizens n highschools,dont take up arms n form terrorist groups,dont refuse to follow the nations rules and regulations,but in bhutans case --read my previous posts,so the government doesnt have much choices see.if the lotsham people were good law abiding citizens then dere is no reason for this whole problem to arise,the governments not jobless to perform such acts without any good reasons.

negotiations were attempted but it never did change anything.

proudtobebhutanese
07 February 2008 at 22:08

have spanish people ever demanded a proportion of the united states for themselves??wher they could do whtever they want n the US government could not interfere.well im sure if the spanish people did come up with such a demand then things would certainly change--

Gnb
08 February 2008 at 09:03

Dear Mr Bill Frelick

Thank you very much for raising this issue and making

people informed about the refugee situation, crux of

the problem and possible way-out .It is really useful

to the concern stakeholder.

It is easy to give comments, even when they have

nothing to do with. I guess some of the readers are

politically motivated, couldn’t differentiate the

human suffering. Majority of the refugee are victim of

circumstances and it often happen to innocent people

around the world who don’t have much to do with

politic. Above all Bhutanese refugees are also Human

being, it is unfair to say

“it is unethical on his part to be partial,

unreasonable and illogical”. It is other way round.

One Person
08 February 2008 at 14:57

Just to clarify my point in bringing the population of illegals in the United States… No, granted it is not exactly an equivalent situation (Hispanic people would probably have more of a claim to the U.S. southwest because it was originally part of Mexico and belonged to Hispanic people for hundreds of years before being stolen by the U.S. through a war.) It is my understanding that the Nepali people began squatting in Bhutan from around 1900 onwards and at first were welcomed. Then after the mid-1950’s they just kept on coming in increasingly record numbers without submitting to any formal immigration procedure and threatening to change the fabric of the country and so were not welcomed. What I was trying to point out was that every sovereign nation has a right to protect it’s borders and to deport non-citizens. I do not believe that if the U.S. made more of a concentrated effort to remove illegals, there would be the same worldwide public outcry and political pressure bearing down upon us telling us to stop or that we are wrong. I think that pressure in part would be absent because we are a so-called “democracy”. I think Bhutan gets a lot of bad press for the expulsion of illegals because it is not a democracy, but being a democracy is not pre-condition for a sovereign nation to have the right to defend it’s borders and expel illegals no matter how long they’ve managed to remain inside the country. It’s a sad situation for those expelled, but it does not make Bhutan a villain. To me, it seems absurd for others to try to make Bhutan responsible for the well-being of non-citizens expelled from their country.

maelstrom101
08 February 2008 at 20:31

One person, its a breath of fresh air to learn of someone outside the country who is as well versed in this polemic issue. Your points are as valid as they are true....

The crux of what you've been trying to put across, and what I've been trying to put across since I started posting here is that the vast majority of all those in the camps are not CITIZENS of Bhutan. With all the hot air and tempers being thrown around here, its nice to finally have someone else who makes sense!

maelstrom101
08 February 2008 at 20:41

Gnb,

Yes they are humans,but they are not Bhutanese. Differentiate the Human suffering? Differentiate from what?? from other suffering? from joy? cheese? Its aggravating... you detract from your position with your blatant ignorance.

Don't generalize Bhutan's People in the Camps issue with your generic and general statements.

kelaya
09 February 2008 at 05:08

oh! MR. ONE PERSON well said. its really a good comment that you give to those people holding their own words at the top and always pointing their finger to others. also good comment for mr. horn bill's RESEARCHED SOLUTION of LAST HOPE for refugee.

umoktan
09 February 2008 at 16:50

Why don't some of you guys from North Bhutan go on a research tour to Southern Bhutan.

umoktan
09 February 2008 at 16:54

Cont.... and see for yourself. Do this to educate yourself and others. Talk to the newly resettled people who are mostly Ex army and their family. They have been there only three years , now what happened to the people who were living there before 1991. The answer is right there. Don't keep rattling your opinion about refugees without evidence.

kelaya
10 February 2008 at 18:28

it may be Ex army or other, be it 3yrs or 3 days. they are there legally in the right place. plez. don't show the red eye to them. most of the people living there before 1990s had badly protested to their HOST, aiming to destory the existance of DRUKPAS and to create another small nepal between tibet and india, when noon of the other tribes did. so they became NGOLOPS and joined with other nepali in japa. the answer is right here. don't try to make things so complicated.

bhutanman
11 February 2008 at 06:25

if you want to understand the tone of the nepalese people in the 1980s and early 1990s, read this brochure of the Bhutan People's Party. It sure does not sound like the voices of victims. Sounds like the words of trouble causers who got what they deserved!

the tone is arrogant, superior and quite clearly they looked down on the culture of very country they were trying to make home!

http://www.bhutannica.org/index.php?title=BPP

Gnb
12 February 2008 at 07:42

maelstrom

oh no,please widen your vision, and accept people as human first ,than comes goegraphical boundries, caste, races and whatever.we never know about the misfortune.

im glad atleast you understood, what it is like.

maelstrom101
13 February 2008 at 02:05

....my vision about this issue is not only wide enough, but its endowed with a great deal of clarity. Human beings we all are, but this isn't an article about the Human condition, its about how these people in the camps are wrongly calming to be from Bhutan.

I can only hope that all of us can have a view as altruistic and selfless as yours. Why don't you first invite some of these people to your own home?

I hope you note the sarcasm, as it seems you didn't with my other post addressing you...pathetic.

refugee from bhutan advocate
18 February 2008 at 17:34

For all of you who claim Mr. Frelick has "blow the issue way out of proportion" or that those persons in the camp are not "genuine refugees" or that the refugees from Bhutan living in the camps in Nepal are “wannabes looking for a free bite” my question to all of you is... do you even known what constitutes of conventional refugee and have you even been to the camps in Nepal, talked to theses people and listened to their stories? These refugees from Bhutan living in Nepal do not want to be in the camps, tey do not want to be a refugee, they do not want to be dependant on international aid. They have no choice. However, they do want to rebuild their lives and provide for their children and their children’s futures. They would prefer to do this in their homeland, Bhutan, but are willing to resettle to a third country as they know the possibility of returning to Bhutan is not an option at the moment. Furthermore, the GoN does do screening of these refugees from Bhutan and with the support of UNHCR and donor countries they carried out a large-scale census in 2007 of all the refugees living in the camps in Nepal. With regard to Bhutanese officials visiting the camps in Nepal and verifying the status of the refugees, anyone who followed their activities is well aware that they were seriously flawed and denounced by the international community.

bhutanman
19 February 2008 at 14:11

mr refugee,

the question is not whether the people in the camps are refugees or not or whether they are suffering or not. the question is whether they are bhutanese.

so long as you guys skip over this question, we will never be on the same page.

Kboy
20 February 2008 at 10:14

The refugee problem is a sad twist of events. I have my sysmpathy for the people suffering in the camps. I feel sad they want to come back to what they call home. They want to build homes again and start all over again, and make way for their chidlren's future.

This is a story not about Humanity. In the 1990's when the nepali ethnic population revolted against the system, they forgot that it was their home. They killed and looted, raped their own ethnic people who refsued to leave the country.

I have my experience too. A lot of my childhood friends left the country. And the reason was not becasue the government was forcing them out. It was among their own people,certain groups, who brought out the cause, threatened them to elave the country. Thenthey thought they would succeed to fight from outside their country. Morons!

I was for their cause until i realized they had been killing people, and the latest series bomb blast i Bhutan is exemplary of their violence. God save them!

Long Katang
01 April 2008 at 11:17

Bill Frelick, Refugee Policy director at Human Rights Watch, has written this article looking at the current pathetic situations of those illegal immigrants who once tried to live in Bhutan without owning proper citizenship. In his attempt to write, he under covers all the truth and exposes what he thinks is his right version. He did not mention anything further why these groups firstly entered to these camps? What were their intentions? Were their motives to fight for reentry to Bhutan?? If so Why?? Did these illegal lots like the country Bhutan in the first place?? Did they like the culture of that country?? Did they like the rules and disciplines?? Did they like one nation one people policy?? and many more….??? His only instincts as a human rights watch dog, sensed ethic cleansing as the root cause of the problem. He also did not write anything about what were the main motives and intentions behind Nepal? And nothing on what had happened to the country like Sikkim?? Since he did not know anything or pretends not to know anything about what had happened to the country like Sikkim, I think he ignorantly ignored issues such as greater Nepal policy, which still is a creepy kind of Nepal’s foreign policy. Had he done little more research on greater Nepal policy, he could have come on track and started saying, “oh yes, Bhutan did the right thing”! Since he belonged to human rights watch group, greater Nepal policy became more political and bilateral issues for him to handle. So he thought little out of his mission. It is pity that people like Frelick, who have to earn a living entirely depending on such NGO, surely had to bring out such crabs to make extended refugee life, but, with whose cost?? Refugees in fact suffer more due to NGOs’ own vested interests than the cause itself. It is the NGOs, who continuously add fuel to the fire in the name of human rights and democracy, which actually bear less significance. Therefore, with the help of Nepal and NGOs, such as Human Rights Watch, where people like Frelick belongs, managed to turn these illegal Nepalese migrants to rebels groups, by feeding and sheltering them and by brainwashing them simply with human rights and democracy. In fact, these illegal Nepalese migrants left Bhutan, since they did not belong to this country. And so, they did not like this country and its culture. They actually hated this country and abandoned it for good and never to return. But it is certainly country like Nepal, and the NGOs who attracted all these impoverished Nepalese from within Nepal and India along with few genuine to make good fighters for greater Nepal. But in the process Nepal blind folded NGOs and the international communities with false propaganda in the name of ethnic cleansing in Bhutan.

Gnb
29 April 2008 at 18:06

maelstrom

people in the camp are claming to be bhutanese with enough proof.

i think it is not just inviting at home, but it is the matter of human rights and justics also.

Chandra
28 August 2008 at 03:13

Mr. Bill Frelick has done a wonderful job of bringing out a portion of truth.

It is true that some of the political gangsters have to hold certain level of responsibility in creating refugees. Non-the less the government of Bhutan with the help of military chased a large number of people from Bhutan.

To give you some account if a person is forcibly made to leave Bhutan by the Political Party (BPP. The hooligans believed that they were political party and started raising questions against the government of Bhutan without educating the public…They themselves did not know what their demand was but were involved in all sorts of criminal activities….. Forcibly raised a huge sum of money and used it in the way they liked... who could question them about who is accountable … the ones who did not want to pay were branded spy and were taken to Garganda… a place in India and were murdered brutally) then the other relatives of the person were denied to stay in Bhutan by the government. A lot of force was used by the army to evict the southern Bhutanese. Meetings were held at midnight and people were forced to agree that they would sign voluntary form and leave the country. I could even witness and read the face of people during the time of signing voluntary forms. The forms were voluntary but the people's will was controlled and imposed. Now the relatives of the very person were warned by the government of Bhutan to leave immediately. Does this justify??? In 1990 I was a small boy studying in Paro High School, my parents are illiterate, my father had a large number of cattle and he used to live in the jungle with the cattle, my mother also illiterate used to be too busy looking after household chores and cultivate the land (10 acres of paddy field and 5 acres of dry land). My elder brother was a plumber working at Thimphu. None of us knew what politics was and never cared who wanted what.

Finally, when my brother had come home to see the family, he was called for a midnight meeting called by the then Dzongdag (Chief of District) and the battalion of army stationed at the local primary school where he was forced at gun point to sign the form. We were given an ultimatum of 3 days to leave the country.

What was our mistake????????????????

We did not join the procession called by the notoriously defamed BPP

None of us or our relative had joined the party.

Our census was in form 1 (one)

I was slapped by the army leader Mr. Lepcha (That rotten rascal) He is a real terrorist more than that of BPP.

I had good friendship with the Northerners and Easterners. We never had any sort of animosity.

I and my family did not go against the rules of the country.

I am not a beggar and did not come to Nepal for a plate of rice….. Never… my family had enough of what we wanted because my father, grandfather... Great grandfather had toiled enough for our good future.

I WANT JUSTICE…………….. DID YOU LISTEN????????

I want to return to Bhutan and I want all what I had before.

You cannot say that the camp is infiltrated by impoverished people and not Bhutanese. I know the whole people of my village and my sub division. They are all bona-fide Bhutanese. The government of Bhutan, government of Nepal and the international organizations can form a team, verify the people and give justice to the victims by taking them back to their home instead of just babbling about whether they are Bhutanese or not. We do not want to fill up the country with Non-Bhutanese……

Kuzugh
11 June 2009 at 08:37

The issue is about illegal immigration and the right of a country to protect its sovereignity. I am sure Bill has read about happened in Sikkim. What are your views on the costs of protecting your independence. If America was a smaller country, say the size of England, would it still tolerate the millions of illegal hispanic immigrants? Survival comes at costs like Americas', which brutalized native Americans. We Bhutanese have no wish to be romanticized today like the native Americans.