The NS Interview: Ayaan Hirsi Ali
“Islam is exempted from scrutiny – and spreading fast”
By Sophie Elmhirst Published 02 July 2010
You grew up in Africa and then moved to the Netherlands. How did that affect you?
It was my first gateway to western life as it is lived, not the way I read in novels in Kenya.
You have written of your traumatic childhood. Is there anything that you owe your family?
I am grateful to my father for sending me to school, and that we moved from Somalia to Kenya, where I learned English. And that my mother has always been a very strong woman.
Your family still lives within Islam. How do they feel about your atheist life in America?
My brother thinks it is very, very bad that I left Islam. My half-sister wants to convert me back; I want to convert her to western values. My mum is terrified that when I die, and we all go to God, I will be burned.
Do you feel that you belong in America?
I'm finally at home. I feel welcome, I feel free.
Which thinkers have shaped your ideas?
Many: John Locke and John Stuart Mill, Friedrich Hayek, people like Karl Popper. Defenders of individualism.
You defend free speech, yet you're under guard because you criticise Islam publicly. How do you deal with this contradiction?
I'm willing to face the continuous stream of threats. It's not the same as my freedoms being taken away. If I'd gone with the man my father chose, I wouldn't be living the way I want to.
Did you intend to become known for your outspokenness on Islam?
I don't define myself by this subject, I just publish and debate other participants' involvement.
In your book Nomad, you talk about the west's superiority as an objective truth.
Freedom, women's rights, prosperity, stability - by all these indicators, the west is superior. That's not opinion, it's basic fact.
What do you want your work to achieve?
I'd like Muslims to look at their religion as a set of beliefs that they can appraise critically and pick and choose from.
Is there anything you like about Islam?
There are things I don't mind - people praying and fasting because it makes them feel good. But there are all these rules governing men and women. And the political dimension: jihad.
What ideology does appeal to you?
Liberal capitalism is not perfect, but compared to the other isms it's far superior.
Do you ever worry that your ideas contribute to mistrust or intolerance of Muslims?
I don't think so. What I do is not create division, but expose the reasoning and the activity, and how persistently it violates human rights.
When you talk about a clash of civilisations, are you trying to be provocative?
To provoke debate, yes. Islam is spreading very fast. Westerners exempt Islam from scrutiny.
You are sympathetic towards Christianity, but doesn't it also have its unpleasant extremes?
Christianity has gone through a process of reformation. Islam has not.
Isn't that an idealised view, given the recent abuse scandals and so on?
If I idealised it, I would be a Christian. Are all religions equally bad? Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins say so. I beg to differ. It doesn't blind me to Christianity's imperfections.
You say western feminists are soft on Islam. Can't Muslim women fight their own battles?
Some Muslim women will say, "You're patronising," but the ones who are locked up, who are forced to wear the burqa, they will be grateful.
Do you support Europe's moves to ban the veil?
No. I'm against the veil because of the idea that a woman is responsible not only for her sexuality but also for that of men.
How do you view the recent events around the aid flotilla sent to Gaza?
Turkey provoked Israel. It is moving away from the west and slowly Islamising.
What are your hopes for Britain's government?
I really hope it will be strong on national security and push back the Islamisation of the UK.
Is there anything you regret?
I regret that Theo van Gogh was killed.
Do you vote?
I just voted in Holland, for the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy [VVD]. Their philosophy is comparable to David Cameron's.
Do you have a plan?
When I took the train from Germany in 1992, I didn't know where my life would lead me, but I'm really glad that I did it.
Are we all doomed?
No. Things can always be improved - and it's worth trying.
Defining Moments
1969 Born in Mogadishu, Somalia
1976 Settles with family in Kenya, having lived in Ethiopia and Saudi Arabia
1992 Political asylum in the Netherlands
2000 MA in politics, Leiden University
2002 First book, The Son Factory, published
2003 Enters Dutch House of Representatives
2004 Receives death threats after broadcast of Submission, her film with Theo van Gogh
2007 Becomes a permanent US resident
2010 Nomad is published
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92 comments
Muhammed and The_Pair, if the West is morally bankrupt, why is it that holding a little girl down and cutting off her clitorus and other external genitalia is only practised and defended in Islamic lands? Why are most Western nations functioning democracies and most Islamic lands dictatorships? Were are the Islamic equivelents of Dr. King, Nelson Mandela, or Aung San Suu Kyi?
Theocratic idiocy prevents the Islamic lands from standing forth and showing the world who they can be. You the followers of Islam make yourselves trivial and demand that we in the West join you in your obvious folly.
Seperate Church and State, live free, and honnor your faith. Don't use your faith as an excuse to commit tyranny and oppression.
Why are 'the Islamic countries' equated with Islam as a whole? People are obviously forgetting that muslims have lived in Britain for generations and do not always fit the appalling caricatures being displayed here. Funny how the EDL / BNP get far less attention from many of these so-called progressives.
Miss Laila, you state: "
if I were really to become an atheist and abandon the idea of reward and punishment in afterlife, then there wouldnt be anything stopping me from doing great evil in this world."
Are you really, honestly stating as a fact that the only thing that has so far stopped you from committing murder, rape, mutilation, theft, violence, sadism - perhaps in the form of burying some poor woman up to her neck in dirt and then inviting men and their sons (for cultural training purposes) to throw rocks at her until she mercifully (for allah is mercifull) dies, is your upbringing in this particular 'philosophy'?
And can you honestly argue that if only everyone just properly understood this particular set of myths, and stuck to it all their lives (with established punishments for transgressors), humans would live in a wonderful world where all would be forever blissful?
In the world of the imam bearded ones there is no creativity, no argument, no real debate, no exploration, no dissent, no actual real messy scarey responsibility.
Leave it all to something that was (we are told) written eons ago.
And of course, it's unchanging, un-alterable.
Just like everything else in life.
How brilliant it is to be in this new world where you point out the websites that should have been supporting real liberalism but instead supported clerical fascism are finally coming on board.
I can now say Islam is crap and there's a good chance I won’t get modded, banned or get death threats. I started out on this voyage 10 years ago and had a really difficult time of it, but now finally most of us agree.
Visit Faithfreedom or ReligionOfPeace, and then feel deeply ashamed about the religion that used to govern your life.
as a somali girl living in the west just like ayan ali, i'm better placed to share what i believe happened to her before she had her outrageous views on islam.
it seem to me to have been forced by her circumstance as a refugee in the netherlands. she could not have been persecuted in somalia as she claimed, for she lived in kenya most or all of her adult life (since 1976). mainly a christian country and western type model government, she could have lived happily ever after. but chose to seek assylum in the netherlands where one is expected to have extensive knowledge of the country they are seeking asylum from. in addition to their individual fear of persecution details which force he or she to leave their country and seek asylum. the information they ask could be current in nature. for example, the price of items distances between towns and the name of the local warlords etc.
subsequently, miss ayan ali having been brought up in kenya could not face the tough intervewing regime of the host country by claiming she's escaping the somali civil war. so she did what any one of us would have done, change the reason for assylum to 'running away from religious persecution' from somalia and not kenya where she came from.
in her endavour, she told immigration authority everything the west wants to hear. women right issues, fundamentlism and every critism of the western media on islam.
and that's how ayan got her contradictary story.
garry k The reason I live in England happily is because I can practice my religion and tolerate the likes of you and the hatred you have for muslims.
Despite living in your "evil" society I see masjids,men walking towards prayer,sisters in headscarves and jilbabs,muslim children learning the Qur'an etc etc.This is not an evil society unless you engage in evil.
freedom and democracy is for everyone in this country get used to it or get out.
Live and let live.
A recent video of this wonderful and brave woman http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjoyRVYagKE&feature=fvst
If every muslim in the western world were to embrace "moderate islam" then I assure you we will be hated just the same.
I caution my fellow muslims not to speak ill of those imams whom you so easily blame for holding muslims back.
If you ever go to the grand masjid in medina or the kaa'ba in makkah you will find both male and female scholars studying the Qur'an and Ahadith daily,To brand these muslims in the manner some posters have is deeply offensive.
Undrstand what you are surrounded by and remember where they are,There is no comparison.
Show a little respect.
@Miss Laila "There should be no compulsion in religion"(2:256).
What is the penalty for leaving Islam???
Islam is on its last legs,Our lands are going under and were losing muslims to other religions.
I accept your theory just let the other billions know!
Yet the fear is so evident in many of the posters.