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South Ossetia: the plaything of Russia - or Georgia?

Published 20 November 2008

The region is a political black hole, reports Tim Whewell

Entering South Ossetia is like falling into a political black hole. At the top of a twisting, heavily wooded gorge, just below the highest ridge of the Caucasus chain, you leave Russia through a series of checkpoints, steel gates and customs controls. Your passport is stamped, your boots are inspected. And then you arrive - nowhere. When I went through some weeks ago, there was no one to check my papers or welcome me to one of the world's newest independent nations. There was just the yawning black entrance to the 4km-long Roki Tunnel, famous now as the route the Russian army took to invade Georgia during the five-day war in August that sparked the worst crisis in east-west relations for nearly 30 years.

As far as almost the whole of the rest of the world is concerned, South Ossetia is still simply part of Georgia. Its statehood is recognised only by Russia, Nicaragua and Somalia. It is hard to take it seriously as an independent state. Even before the war, it had only 70,000 people - and an economy based principally on smuggling. Now, after the largely forced departure of almost all its ethnic Georgian inhabitants, the population may be closer to 50,000. And half of them live in one small town of mouldering and, since August, shell-blasted apartment blocks - the capital, Tskhinvali.

It is easy to think of those people as mere playthings of Russia, a useful excuse for meddling in the affairs of a state - Georgia - whose president, Mikhail Saakashvili, the Kremlin loathes. Vladimir Putin declared recently he'd like to "hang him by the balls". Over the past few years, Russia has handed out passports to South Ossetians. It helpfully allowed some junior Russian officials to become ministers in the South Ossetian government. It devoted considerable efforts to improving facilities for its 500 peacekeepers in the territory. And in August it claimed - with huge hyperbole - that it was being forced to invade Georgia to stop a "genocide" of Ossetians and rescue the survivors in a town that the Russian media reported had been razed to the ground.

Reach Tskhinvali and you find a place that, for all the gaping holes in walls and roofs, is still largely standing and working. On a first visit, it is hard not to be more shocked by what has happened to the ethnic Georgian villages on the edge of the town. After revenge attacks by Ossetian militias since the war, they are collections of burnt-out shells, some houses apparently even bulldozed by the authorities.

The true extent of Ossetian suffering has been much harder to fathom. Even the territory's main independent human rights group has been surprisingly slow to document civilian deaths during the fighting. The local prosecutor's office puts the number at about 150, while the Russian judicial authorities are investigating about 350 cases.

But what seems increasingly clear from eyewitness testimony and examination of the destruction is that a considerable number of the deaths were caused by Georgia's use, in its initial attack on Tskhinvali, of notoriously inaccurate Grad rockets and of tank shells which, in some cases, were apparently fired directly into residential apartments. Now it is also becoming clear that those western nations that have given such strong diplomatic backing to Georgia since the war probably knew all along about the nature of that assault.

"It was an indiscriminate attack on a civilian town," Ryan Grist, the man who then headed the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe's mission to Georgia, told me recently. Grist - who resigned from the OSCE shortly afterwards - says he relayed back to his organisation reports from monitors in Tskhinvali who saw, on the first night of the Georgian attack, how "40 to 50 shells landed close to their office: nowhere near any target".

Georgia denies ever deliberately targeting civilians - but President Saakashvili himself is now calling for an investigation into all the circumstances of the war, including Georgia's actions. And the conflict has reinforced the determination of France, Germany and some other western European nations to ensure Georgia is not given a green light to join Nato in the foreseeable future.

What's less clear is what anyone outside Russia can now do for the Ossetians. Some in Tskhinvali want to become part of the Russian Federation. Others insist on their independence - supported by large amounts of Russian cash. But no one I met was prepared to consider negotiations with Georgia. This tiny territory, it seems, is likely to remain a dangerously unstable black hole for a long time to come.

Tim Whewell is a correspondent for BBC Newsnight and Radio 4

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32 comments from readers

Alan
21 November 2008 at 20:36

An insightful opinion. I would add, though, that the fate of South Ossetia largely depends on the world's continued interest to it.

If this tiny nation, which had been attacked by Georgia, received at least a fraction of the financial aid provided swiftly by the world to Georgia, if the world cared about why South Ossetia can't live together with Georgia, maybe then the "black hole" hypotheses would have less chance to materialise.

If, however, the world turns its back on these people, on their historic sufferings from a bigger neighbour, South Ossetians can only turn for help to Russia, and this is effectively what they have done after the previous local war in the 1990s.

The world, or rather the "West" chose to ignore South Ossetia with its problems. OSCE has been on the ground for good 15 years and yet failed to prevent another war. We can now blame Russia or Georgia, but Europe is responsible too.

Assuming this responsibility is what Europe should do. The deep roots of the Georgian-Ossetian conflict should be studied, not just the fact who fired first in August 2008. A fair, impartial, balanced approach needs to be employed, not a pro-NATO-loyal-Georgia-support or anti-NATO-Russia-and-their-friends-bashing.

If we all simply forget about South Ossetia now, history will inevitably spin another spiral again and South Ossetia will be attacked by Georgia for the forth time, to mend the humiliated national pride of Georgian rulers and finally force all the remaining stubborn Ossets to run away, georgionize or die. It's just a matter of time.

Siafu
22 November 2008 at 09:19

Alan, quite balanced comment! Just one but: They are not Ossets but Osetins and if South Ossetia will be attacked by Georgia for the forth time we will mention Georgia only in hystorical context,,,

Alan
22 November 2008 at 15:27

Actually, in Ossetian language the modern name is

"Irætta" (plural) or "Iron" (sing.). "Osetin" is a Russianized

version of the old Georgian "Osi" (also, "Ovsi"). In

English, I came across both "Ossets" (compare with

"Chechens") and "Ossetians" (compare with "Russians").

In early middle ages they were used to be known as

"Alans". In turn, the Alans descend from Sarmathians,

who had branched out from the Scythians. Now,

Scythians themselves are believed to be part of the Indo-

Iranian proto-civilisation (Arians). The modern "Iron"

actually may be connected with the original name "Arian",

as was the "Alan". So, this nation has been called all

kinds of different names at different times.

The history of Ossetia is actually very interesting, it spans

over 3000 years. The Ossetian (or Ossetic?) language is

also very old. The Ossetians are the only surviving group

that still speaks this ancient language, keeping it alive. If

they are exterminated as ethnos, so will be the old culture

and language.

melnikov.maksim
23 November 2008 at 13:32

Is it still difficult to admit that you, the west, were wrong? 'A considerable number of the deaths were caused by Georgia's use, in its initial attack on Tskhinvali, of notoriously inaccurate Grad rockets and tanks shells which in some cases were apparently fired directly into residental apartments' but still Russia is an aggressor and started the war?

Carl Jones
24 November 2008 at 11:51

Gosh Tim, your buddies at GCHQ are really protective with all this censorship.

Alan
24 November 2008 at 13:29

Maksim, I think you need to distinguish between the people and the politicians. Not everyone in the West thinks that it was Russia who started the war. However, I agree, the majority indeed believed what they heard on TV and read in the newspapers.

One reason is that there hasn't been enough information coming directly from Ossetia prior to the war (other than through OSCE) and even after the war. The only "first-hand info" available to the Western public was the smooth PR by Mikheil Saakashvili, eagerly retranslated by the Western media (despite the fact that it was mostly lies), and the less eloquent Russian rhetoric which hasn't been always accurate in details. Also, when a bigger country fights a smaller one you automatically give moral support to the latter if you didn't know anything else. So, if there was more publicly available factual information about Ossetia, about the history of this conflict, it would have been much easier for many people in the West to place the August 2008 war in correct historical, politicl, legal, humanitarian and moral contexts.

Finally, I am sure that an objective international investigation will confirm that the August 2008 war is the latest manifestation of the dangerous Georgian politics. I just hope that the scope of investigation will not be limited to war crimes, for there can be revealed an even sadder historical picture around South Ossetia.

melnikov.maksim
25 November 2008 at 05:24

Alan, you seem to be the only one who understands it and perhaps because you somehow have access to the Russian point of view or come from Russia. Correct me if i am wrong. I am sure most of the western people dont even want to know the truth. Used to the thought that Russia is an eternal evil. But whatever, the world is not only the west.

David George
25 November 2008 at 13:37

To all previuos commentators!!

The main point in this story is that so called South Ossetia is historical heartland of Georgia. It has always been within the territory of Georgian kingdoms.

All historical monuments (mainly churches are Georgian). Therefore Georgians have a full right to claim this land as inseparable part of their motherland.

Conserning the victims of Georgian shellings there are contradicory reports but still NO NAMES of particular victims. As Human Rigts Watch reported there are about 150 people dead among residents of Tskhinvali and majority are local militia, same thugs who completely destroyed Georgian villages.

If you read article by Latynina in Ejedhevnu Journal (ej,ru) 200 Tanks it is revealed that Ossetian authorities evacuated almost ALL POLUPATION of Tskhinvali three days before conflict. This was planned provocation agains Georgia, a trap which worked and hintered georgia's hopes of joining NATO.

You all who phylosophise here shoud understand this and the fact that Georgia is a developing democratic society who's only intention is to unite it's terrotories and join European family .....

melnikov.maksim
25 November 2008 at 13:53

Nice try - join European family by killing people. :) oh poor, silly and innocent Saakashvili (such a little boy), got caught by the provocation of the sly, evil Russians and was absolutely forced to use rockets. As to the provocations, they had been happening there for 15 years, from both sides.

melnikov.maksim
25 November 2008 at 14:33

And i like this funny statement - to be European, you have to join NATO, EU, and be a puppet of the United States. Dont remember how many times i have read and heard this in the western media. Like, by joining, territory of your country will move closer to Europe :))) Sometimes it seems to me that there is some sample of phrases like this "join nato to become democratic", that all the media have to use. Cant find any new opinion. All is the same. Becomes boring.

Alan
25 November 2008 at 17:23

David,

“So called South Ossetia” is a phrase from the most absurd parts of Tbilisi rhetoric; it is beyond comprehension that some people still buy into such cheap propaganda. FYI - South Ossetian ethnos has existed on the Southern slopes and foothills of the Caucasian range for thousands of years, of which there is ample archaeological and toponymical evidence. The old churches on the territory of South Ossetia are Byzantian.

The neighbouring proto-Georgian feudal kingdoms have indeed existed nearby for long time. The consolidation of those kingdoms into a larger country started centuries ago, and as we can see it is still on the agenda of present-day Georgian authorities. It is precisely this expansionist policy of Georgian rulers who wanted to annex the lands of Adjaria, Abkhazia, Ossetia to grow the small territory of Georgia, that caused the bloody massacres of 1920, 1992 and 2008.

If you do some research, you will learn that South Ossetia has never been part of the independent state of Georgia, neither in the middle ages, nor upon the collapse of the Russian empire or the USSR, despite the fact that South Ossetians have been illegally denied the right of self-determination and had to fight for freedom. One can argue that Serbia has a far more rightful claim on the territory of Kosovo (the independence of which has been recognized in the West btw) than Georgia on South Ossetia.

Alan
25 November 2008 at 17:32

David,

Contrary to what you say, the list of victims of the August 2008 war is publicly available. You can look it up here: www.ossetia-war.com/dvlist. If you really think that all the women, children and elderly from this list are “thugs who completely destroyed Georgian villages” then it is pointless for me comment on this. For your information, Latynina is wrong here. My family has been in Tskhinval during the war, I was in Tskhinval after the war and I can assure you that there has been at least thousands of civilians in the city during the war.

If you think this war was a conspiracy trap set up for Georgia, please explain - why did Georgian armed forces attack Ossetia in 1991-1992 burning down dozens of Ossetian villages and killing hundreds ethnic Ossetians - was that also a trap set up by external forces? Why did Georgia attack South Ossetia again in Aug 2004, another trap? Why did Saakashvili and Okruashvili plan the “tiger leap” attack on Tskhinval in 2006 (you can look it up on Reuters website)? Why did Georgia build fortifications and firing positions around Tskhinvali long before the Aug 2008 attack? This list can go on and, the point is - there is more than enough evidence that the attack on South Ossetia is just another link in the chain of aggressive politics pursued by certain Georgian leaders (which included everything from suppression of Ossetian culture and of the political status of South Ossetia to mass murders).

I am sure that the Georgian people are good and mean no harm, and I would love to see Georgia a prosperous democracy. The problem is, the expansionist ambitions and the pride of the Georgian authorities is very dangerous and has caused lots of pain and sadness.

Riaz Ahmad
28 November 2008 at 03:31

Mr Whewell, like your westren collegues, you are still stuck in the time warp of post colonial mindset, incapable of looking at facts except through the prism of vested interest. Your job is to be objective, but you have failed your readers miserably.

The west has not suddenly fallen in love with Georgia or its people, it is only interested in the country as a safe and secure route for oil and gas pipeline delivering to European economies. This is the reality beneath all the moralising and ill-concieved retoric. Russia on the otherhand wants a monopoly of oil and gas and the routes and pipelines that carry it.

It is simply a clash of oil and gas interests between the west and Russia. Morals and ethics have no room in international affair, they have been degraded and debased as instruments of spinning of the facts, and Mr. Whewell, that is pricesiley what you are doing. You need to get out of your time warp, the world has changed, even little souls like me can distinguish the facts beneath the web of fiction you are spinning.

I genuinely feel sorry for little Georgia and its people, just like I feel sorry for the suffering of the Palistinians, the two nations suffering from the pilitical game, mere pawns on the political chessboard of post colonial world. Instead of a meveric hothead, poor Gorgia needs a pragmatic head of state capable of playing cat and mouse by balacing the conflicting interest of the west and Russia and keep little Georgia out of harms way.

Alan
28 November 2008 at 14:16

Mr Ahmad, what about South Ossetia being repeatedly harassed by liitle Georgia for which you feel sorry?

melnikov.maksim
28 November 2008 at 14:44

Yes, indeed. South Ossetia is even smaller than Georgia. So there must be more sorry feeling for it, then, following the logic of Riaz. And where is our friend David George who so bravely quoted the so-often-used statements of the western media and sincerely thinking it was his own opinion. Where are you? Nothing else to say, buddy?

David George
28 November 2008 at 18:47

To Alan:

I suppose you are not only Alan by name but Alan by nationality because the word Ossetian is russian version of Georgian word Oseti depicting the area where Alans live. Even this fact is indicating the extend to which Alan people's history is conected with Georgia. Your claim that Alans lived in Caucasus for thousands of years is COMPLETE LIE as well as saying that churshes on so called South Ossetia's territory are Byzantine.

Alans settels in Caucasus in the middle of the first millenium. Main current of Alan tribes went to Europe and mixed with other barbarians. Alans were partly chrystianized (main part of Osetian polupation was mainly pagan throughout the centuries) by Georgian kings. Many bazilikas even in North Ossetia are of Georgian origin wirh Georgian prayers carvied on their walls. There no Christian monuments of Alan origins whatsoever!!! How on earth can you lie about Byzantine character of Ikorta and other typically Georgian churches on southern slopes of Caucasus. Georgian and Armenian architectures developed on the basis of Byzantine art but are unique in their character. Georgian churches have high dome nechks and no specialist can EVER mix them with Byzantine ones.

These remarks dear Alan only put further break in other relations. There were dark pages in our history (Ossetian invasion and occupation of Gori in 15th century, Georgian Republic's response on Ossetian's treacherous proclamation of Soviet Ossetia in 1920 when Georgian Army behaved brutally) but if Ossetians really want to live with Georgia on GEORGIAN LAND of SAMATCHABLO where Mathabeli nobles accepted and protected taxind Alan peasants on their lands you have to be honourable part of our state striving towards freedom and European values. Put on your mind that Georgia WILL NEVER ACCEPT ROBBERY OF IT@S HEARTLAND by Russia and it's Ossetian sattelites.

David George
28 November 2008 at 18:58

To Alan and to all:

I looked at the site which Alan advised me to check with the names of dead during this conflict. I pity all who died and accept terrible consequences of this conflict but looking on the list one strange list comes on my mind. Amost half of the dead have no identified places of burial. How on earth can anybody assume that they are dead and how opponents can check the justification of this clam ? How on earth can you claim that all of this victims wer cyviliand when most male population of Tskhinvali were armed and part of local militia directly paid by Russian military and secret services. Tskhinvali was bombed mainly by Russians trying to push Georgian tanks from the town.

And do not forget the provocative notion of 2000 dead by Kokoity and Putin. Where are these 2000 dead? How can anibody trust these people and rely on their credibility? This conflict was long before prepared by Russia to prevent Georgia joining Nato.

David George
28 November 2008 at 19:03

To Maksim Melnikov

Joining Nato is some kind of guaranty of security to Georgia striving towards European values. Nato is not a goal itself but merely a mean to become part of Europe.

Georgia needs this security to build real democracy an escape finaly the post Soviet swamp in which sadly my dear friends you and your Russian and Ossetian peoples are still in physically and mentally.

David George
28 November 2008 at 19:07

Anf finally:

Latynina is not wrong my dear Alan but is right and

her brave article is most brilliant account of this brutal demonstration of Russian power.

I advise all of you to read it carefully.

www.ej.ru Article: 200 tanks

Alan
28 November 2008 at 21:10

David,

Thank you for your comments.

You are right, the history of the Ossetian and Georgian

people is closely intertwined, I am sure you know

about the royal marriages during the Georgian golden

age. (I am actually amazed that references to

Ossetian royalty in the Bagrationi line has been

carefully omitted in the professionally edited

Wikipedia articles, I guess it’s even easier to

manipulate than Kartlis Tskhovreba)

Now, I did not say that it was the Alans who lived in

the Caucasus for thousands of years; it would have

been inaccurate. I referred to South Ossetian ethnos

which I am sure you know is a synthesis of the ancient

Koban culture with the Nomadic culture of Indo-

Iranian origin (of which Alans are a branch). The

Koban artefacts unearthed in numerous sites in South

Ossetia date back to 16th century BC.

I wish the history was simple and straightforward, but

alas, my friend, it is not. There have been many “dark

pages”, some lands have been controlled by different

peoples at different times, and it is pointless to debate

about who came where first thousands of years ago

(think of the USA for one second), why Daryal gorge

has its name, etc.

Honestly, I could not help laughing reading about the

Matchabeli nobles ”protecting” Ossetian peasants,

about the “treacherous” proclamation of Soviet

Ossetia and especially the about the idea of Ossetians

“really wanting to live with Georgia on Georgian land

of Samachablo”. How do you imagine the latter

possible now?

I don’t laugh though when you say Georgia will never

accept “robbery of its heartland”. This expansionist

theme and this pride means there will be yet more

wars brought by Georgia upon South Ossetia. But

please note that while the Georgian politicians just

want to take Ossetian land, the Ossetians as a nation

fight for their freedom and survival. Do you see the

difference and do you see that this cannot be resolved

through a war?

Alan
28 November 2008 at 23:01

David,

On European values: resolving territorial issue by

killing innocent people is not a move towards the

European values.

On Georgian democracy: according to many

Georgians it’s a farce.

On Latynina: she is indeed very bright and she got

many facts true. But she cleverly twists some facts,

weaving an interesting plot. Her main theme, that the

current Russian regime is evil, is influencing the

coverage of events, which devalues the analysis. You

find it excellent because it says what you want to hear.

Remember, no matter how much Russia or the US are

stirring trouble, there is the very old unresolved

territorial and pride issue, Georgian authorities did not

hide the fact that they would try and force Ossetia to

obey.

On the bombing of Tskhinval: the city has been

intensively shelled by the Georgian armed forces, not

all the time and not all the parts equally, but utterly

inhumanly. A rudimentary ballistic analysis shows the

azimuth of each exploded shell flight direction. The

one that landed in our family garden came from near

Ergneti and killed all my dear people who were in the

house, the fuse was set to fragmentation mode and

therefore the house does not even appear on the

UNOSAT map as damaged, but people are dead.

On statements about 2000 dead and Tskhinal

annihilated : Agree, this was a wrong estimate and an

exaggeration. Obviously, it served the interests of the

politicians to quote this and they did, believingly or

cynically. However, for tiny South Ossetia even 100

killed is a terrible loss. Please also note that the

previous wars against South Ossetia took away

thousands of lives, and tens of thousands became

permanent refugees assimilating elsewhere (and you

know what portion of South Ossetian population is that

– the nation shrank catastrophically).

On lying: You and I know the most who are the most

talented nation in the world, notoriously artistic in any

endeavour.

melnikov.maksim
29 November 2008 at 00:23

David, my friend, could you please tell us your OWN opinion? Not those “Russia is an evil, bear, wants to conquer all, the Russians are savage and uneducated and have no democracy. To get protection from those savage Russians, you must join NATO, and so on and so on”. All these makes me only laugh. We can read enough of it in the western media everyday. All of your statements are based on those old stereotypes. So, I am afraid you are in a mental swamp, not us. Compared with you, I can freely get both points of view, can compare them, can find more trustworthy version. You only watch your CNN or BBC where Saakashvili seems to have some everyday comedian show now. So, an advice for the future is to visit Russia first of all and don’t judge it only by your media.

David George
29 November 2008 at 14:51

To Alan

I repeat that I accept pain and tragedy that happened in Tskhinvali... but this is the consequence of your policy

You are saying that 'Koban artefacts unearthed in numerous sites in South Ossetia date back to 16th century BC'.

And you are telling me that nation which as you say existed on these land did not create A SINGLE CULTURAL OR RELIGIOUS MONUMENT!!!??? You are telling me that while Georgian kingdom was in existence for at least 2000 years there was this tiny anclive of Ossetians completely independent from Georgian rule?

In regards of links to Georgian royal family with Ossetians nobody denies liks and even the name of David Soslan is the example. But even the northern part of Ossetia was always under the cultural influence of Chrystian Georgia and got Chrystianity from Georgians Even the word of Saint George in Ossetian is taken from Georgian.

The main point is that Armenians live is Georgia, Azeris live in Georgia and are not treacherously striving against Georgia's territorial integrity...

As for Ajara which you mentioned before Ajarians are full blooded Georgians (Gurians) islamised by Turks during 300 years of rule.

The main problem is that part of Ossetians are still mentally in Soviet times and prefer to be part of this corrupt and brutal counrty which so rechklessly killed 300 of their children in Beslan than to live as brothers in democratic and truly European Georgia with full cultural rights... This is what is truly sad and tragic...

David George
29 November 2008 at 15:14

And one last question Alan

What grounds do you think Bolsheviks with the leadership of 'honourable Georgians Stalin and Ordjonikidze' defined borders of so called South Ossetia on when whole Eastern part of your 'ancient motherland' is inhabited by Georgians with Georgian small basilikas in almost every village dated from 9th -15th centuries. How on earth Tskhinvali is Ossetian town when in 1913 only several Ossetian families lived in this predominantly Georgian and Jewish place of residence?

Alan
29 November 2008 at 21:40

David, the answer to your question is the "dark pages"

of South Ossetian history. There were a number of

times when Georgia attacked/occupied Ossetian

lands in the past, either with their own hands or by

facilitating punitive operations of the Russian empire

forces. In 1920, for example, you would have hardly

seen any Ossetians left in South Ossetia - those who

were not killed fled over the mountains to Russia.

There were periods when Ossetia was controlled by

Georgia (and vice versa, some parts of Georgia were

controlled by the Alans at times). There are of course

numerous historic monuments in South Ossetia, e.g.

ancient family towers (maesygs), prayer places

(zhuars) and graves. Anyway, as I said above, it is

pointless today to argue about the ancient times.

More recently, by the way, the two bolsheviks that you

mentioned, Stalin and Ordzhonikidze, have caused so

much harm for South Ossetia that it is hard for me to

accept your idea that they were a blessing.

Now, you disapprove the Ossetian preference of

Russia over Georgia. The reason why Ossetians

prefer it this way is very tragic and very important.

Perhaps, if Georgian rulers weren't "brutal" to

Ossetians maybe then the choice of Ossetians would

have been different. Why kill thousands and drive

away tens of thousands, why ban the language, why

discriminate economically and socially, why cancel

the autonomy, why choke with blockades and deprive

of basic resources, why classify non-Georgians as

"junk" and call for limiting their demographics, why

manipulate history, why treat Ossetians like second-

rated people and announce that "Georgia [is] for

Georgians!"? Summing this up will easily qualify for

both cultural and physical genocide in dry legal terms.

This is why Ossetians seek protection from Russia,

this is why they do not want to live with Georgia in one

state.

David George
30 November 2008 at 16:36

To Melnikov:

If your way of life led you to theconclusion that Katyn is a myth I really have no time and desire to waste my finger energy with you. Bye bye again!!

David George
30 November 2008 at 16:42

To Alan:

Dear Alan

With due respect and warmth which Ossetians are mainly associated in Georgian minds I accept all your grievances but do not forget the reality that Osetian language is almost forgotten in North Ossetia and there are no Osetian school (or almost no) in Vladikavkaz (even this name demonstrates how much Osetia was a Russian stronghold in Caucasus and what is the pshychlogical state of Osetian people naming their capital after imperial Russian ambitions.

In Georgia to your knowledge all Osetians even in Borjomi or Kakhetia speak their language. We are much closer to you culturally and your being under REussian rule will evenually cause almost complete Russification of your ethnos. Sadly so.

Alan
30 November 2008 at 17:55

David,

I agree, the language has not been maintained well in

North Ossetia, but it is far from being forgotten. It is

promoted at schools, there is a recognition of the

problem and action is being taken.

In South Ossetia, Georgia tried to block the Ossetian

language. There have been attempts to ban education

in Ossetian, to convert the alphabet into Georgian

system; Ossetian books have been burned, etc. The

protesters against these measures have been

severely punished by the Georgian authorities (some

sentenced to 25 years, some to 10).

There are less and less Ossetians left in Georgia.

Some fled and continue fleeing, some have been

forcefully assimilated and their family names changed

into Georgian names. It is impossible for Ossetian

culture to survive in Georgia in such circumstances.

So far as the Georgian culture is concerned, I love it. It

is beautiful - the music, the food, the traditions. And

there are many cultural cross-influences between the

Ossetian and the Georgian cultures. However, there

have been too many uncivilized events inflicted upon

South Ossetia by the Georgian power-holders, not

only in- and after the USSR but long before that too,

and this naturally pushed South Ossetia away.

David George
01 December 2008 at 12:38

Dear Alan

First of all please read Latynina's 200 Tanks Part 5 (it is published two days ago on ej.ru).

regarding your statements about the plight of Ossetian people in Georgia. I do not really know where you got your information from. Maybe from Russian media which is famous of pouring dirt on present Georgian government.

Alan there is no 25 years sentence in Georgia today, there is an Ossetian school near Lagodekhi in Kakheti and Georgian government promotes cultures of all the minorities in the country. This is why one of the strongest support to Saakashvili's election campaign came from Armenians in Akhalkalaki and Azeris in Bolnisi. In Osetian anclave near Tskhinvali led by Sanakoev's government language and culture is (was) promoted and considerably supported financially....

This is truth that Kokoity and his FSB sponsors do not want to know:)))

Georgia is a democratic country and if there were any significant violations international organisations would monitor these facts from their Tbilisi headquarters...

Alan
01 December 2008 at 19:54

David, I do not have to get my information from Russia or Georgia. I have lived in South Ossetia and the surviving part of my family, which escaped from being killed, still lives there.

FYI - there has been a sentence for 25 years in GSSR. The name of the man who was sentenced for this term was Laliev. He and the other young people protested about the policies aimed against the Ossetian language.

I do believe that the Georgian government wants to demonstrate how it cares about the minorities in Georgia. However, it also demonstrates how it loves Ossetians by shelling their homes. They did it again. Would you trust someone who killed your people?

Alan
01 December 2008 at 20:17

I have read the Latynina’s piece. Contrary to her account, there has been a shelling from the Georgian side on the 9th pf August . My family members died from a Georgian shell on the 9th and I will prove it in international court.

Latynina is very smart, she omits the facts that distort her rosy image of the Georgian government. She doesn't say that the Georgian leaders repeatedly threatened that they would take Tskhinvali with force and that they did prepare for the war with Ossetia. She isolates this war from its historical context, presenting it just as reaction of the Georgian government to a Russian provocation, while it is no secreted that this war is rooting from the cowboy approach of Saakashvili to resolving very serious issues and from those issues themselves. Despite the fact the painful memories of “Georgia for Georgians!” policies of Gamsakhurdia and of Shevarnadze’s bombings and the Zar tragedy haven’t yet faded away, Saakashvili promised that he would bring back Ossetia into Georgia while he is president of Georgia. He wanted to get quick results, so he appointed young hawks to his government and they went aggressive on Ossetia in 2004 (when the tortured body of Sanakoev was presented as a Cossack on Georgian TV). Then, there was the 2006 plan to take over Ossetia, which Okruashvili has described recently. This aggressive style was always there, the non-stop harassment, the deprivation of water and electricity, etc.

All these and other aggressive elements of the policy towards Ossetia are missing in Latynina’s analysis, she pictures Saakashvili as a saint who just unwillingly made some mistakes and that the Kremlin is responsible for everything. No, my friend, the Georgian government is responsible for inflicting pain on Ossetia over long period, just because they always wanted the Ossetian land and restore their humiliated pride.

David, I think this debate is pointless. You love your country, I love mine. I wish you peace.

David George
03 December 2008 at 13:57

Wish you best my friend!!

Just one last comment. i suppose you live in the West now. If so you more or less accept European values and democracy. This is what Georgia is striving for. To escape the Russian sphere of influence where there is no law bu corruption, brute power, olygarchs and no freedom of speech.

I cincerely regret what happpened in the beginning of 90's with atrocities from both sides and if you want please accept my apologies from Georgia's side.

But willingly or unwillingly certain part of Ossetian society is playing to Russian fiddle thus depriving Georgia a chance to escape this swamp and intergrate with progressive world. This is what Saakashvili wants. Maybe he is a romantic Nationalist, impulsive politician and made a mistake by stepping in this Putin's trap.

I really wish you well and if you are in London we can even meet someday....