In what way is it up to us? I think the public and the professional bodies have made pretty clear they have truck with the bill. The Lib Dems at the conference-whether by design or coercion- blew the opportunity they had to stop it in its tracks. So thanks for that you spineless bunch of gerrymandering Tory Lickspittles. The Lib Dems at the conference did not deliver when it counted and should be counted in the same breath as the Lord Betrayer Clegg.

Richard Morris

What's the point, you won't have lots of MPs to write after the next election, all the Lib/Dems had a chance to make a difference and blew it big time. Now Clegg , Huhne, Laws and Saint Vince Cable have shown us they are worthy heirs to Tone's New Labour!

Of course this is not the only question that MPs should consider; it is their job not just to ponder on which policies to back, but also to fully reckon the consequences of their actions. And the consequences of backing the Lansley bill will be the ultimate obliteration of healthcare in the UK as we know it (and its replacement with something small, mean, narrow and cruel).

Market mechanisms will not enhance, or augment, or elevate the cause of patient care; they will mutate it into commodities to be bought and sold. Because markets respond to buying power, not need.

Could this have anything to do with why things have panned out as they have during the Lib Dem conference?

http://njuice.com/2Bw

Stuart Eels - Andy Burnham is considering asking Labour MPs to support the Lib Dem amendments to the Opposition motion this afternoon. Last vote on the bill I believe something like 17 didn't turn up to vote. Please make sure they do today

"We have been manoeuvred into a position whereby if the bill passes, in the eyes of the electorate the responsibility for it will lie with us"

Don't worry, we all still know it was the Tories' bill, the Lib Dems were just useful idiots.

As a former LD council leader I'm just staggered, even with intimate knowledge of a party that dithers and fudges... vote not to vote on instructing MPs to drop the bill, then vote against instructing them to pass it with amendments. Basically Conference has abdicated the chance to reflect their views either way and left it up to the Lords. Which, given that *they* voted against their own amendments a few days ago, inspires no confidence. A picture of MPs, Lords and members desperately tossing an explosive package back and forth to each other wouldn't be far from the truth.

Richard Morris-how in the hell am I supposed to do that? you are meant to have the connections pal!

Jules is pretty much correct.

Once the "drop the bill" motion lost the ballot (narrowly on 2nd preferences) the anti-HSCB grouping faced a challenge. The leadership's "Shirley Williams" motion was pretty anodyne. The best opponents could really hope for was to persuade Conference to withhold its endorsement for the Lords supporting the Bill at 3rd reading. Which is what happened.

That may well be a largely symbolic outcome. But you'd hope the leadership are able to read the symbolism and act accordingly.

However, I've absolutely no confidence that they will. Clegg, Burstow et al would appear to support the Bill and to have done so from the start. Even though the LibDems are not bound by the Coalition agreement on this issue. The leadership appear to be prioritising shoring up the Coalition over anything else. V poor.

Oops, I see he's written for the NS before. And re the whole 'Cameron's poll tax' thing. Did you mindlessly oppose that without bothering to understand the reasoning behind it too, Richard?

'If you've got a point to make, why not make it'. My point is that you don't. You've spent two columns attacking the Tories and the bill without offering any explanation as to why you object to it. Of course, you're not alone. I remember Burnham being asked the same question three times by Andrew Marr, and the best he could offer was to reel off the bodies' who are perceived to oppose the bill, based on the balloting of a tiny minority of their members. So my 'point' is: drop the childish, overblown rhetoric about the nasty Tories 'destroying' 'our NHS', and clearly expound your arguments against the bill.

Owen - well, that will be because I was trying to make different points in both this piece and the other you cite. I try and keep posts to 500 words and make one point in each. But seeing as you've asked so nicely, I will write something in response to the question you ask in my own blog sometime this week. May take a few days - I've got a lot of MPs and Peers to write to. Will post here when it's up.