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The government could cut off incapacity payments if people challenge the ruling that they are fit to
its just a big long paper chase to sicken you whilst paying you half of what youre entitled to
Where is it going to end? Kill the poor or disabled? Or hope they will kill themselves?
This government is a disgrace, morally repugnant in every way.
I, like many people are very scared by all this (Yes, i know thats what they want) I have a vestibular disorder and spend most of the day dizzy and disorientated. I have applied and been refused DLA 3 times (the last time with the CABs help) because i cant give them a number of days out of 7 that my condition affects me as the intensity varies. So i am on Incapacity Benefit which i am very grateful for, BUT, it no way near is enough to live on. I have some of my rent and council tax paid for so i have to pay my share of both, after bills there is very little left for food (i dont smoke or drink by the way) i cant afford to eat every day, although i try to have something hot each day, usually weetabix (stores own) and hot milk, i have some food in the freezer but i dont know how long its going to have to last. It is a very sad and depressing life i live. I would dearly love to be able to work, if they want to take my benefit away, please take my illness away as well because i dont want it. Before i was ill i was on £25k a year, now i am on 5.5k. Why ANYONE would CHOOSE to live on benefits is beyond me.
Methinks they have me in mind...
Twice WCA passed, twice appealed (lasting six months each time), twice failed. Still, as things be, it pays to give them the 'run-around', so ? so one will oblige !
Not only have we been dropped to ESA which is £35 less a week than incapaity benefit while waiting for the appeal to be assessed but we lost council tax benefit and housing benefit. Honestly for an ill person to have to go through this, I just do not know how much fight i have left in me. I face being homeless, in court for non payment of council tax which has trebled and asking for charities to help feed us.What is going on in this country that I have to face those things to prove I am worthy of the status of being ill? I was ill enough before..now i'm worse.
Is talking like a character from Treasure Island part of your claim that you're unfit for work?
As a paranoid schizophrenic on IB and yet to have my WCA this concerns me greatly. So much for Dave's compassionate conservatism; surely the thing to do here is speed up the appeals process?
Read up the facts before commenting.
The trial was rolled out for people who were NOT YET claiming. So no one was fraudulently claiming anything.
Around one third dropped their claim before getting to the medical stage. Now before you start screaming that that proves beyond doubt that these were fraudsters about to try it on, let me explain that you HAVE to claim ESA once your SSP runs out. This takes 6 months. The medical however only takes place about 13 weeks after that.
If you get better in that time and then you will, of course, "drop out" and quite rightly and honestly return to your job.
In other words, anyone with an illness or injury lasting between approximately 6 and 9 months falls into this category.
7% were put into the support group (ie are so sick or disabled they are never expected to work again). This rose to 9% after appeals.
Approximately a third were put into the WRAG (Work Related Activity Group). These are people classed as currently unfit to work but who with support might be able to work again some day in the future (maybe months, maybe years).
Approximately a third were classed as fit to work and 40% of these decisions were found to be wrong!
So 9% in the support group.
Let's be kind and say 30% in the WRAG.
30% classed as fit to work, of which 40% overturned at appeal. So 42% in the WRAG.
51% were classed as unfit to work.
18% were classed as fit to work
The rest dropped their claim and returned to work (often in perfect honest good faith).
Quite a different story to your screaming headline of 87% fraudsters
Incidentally the 40% appeal success rate rises to 70% with representation. Hardly the indication of a fair system.
How come so many people on here have forgotten that the ESA changes where introduced by the previous labour government who spent years in the planning of it.
This Government just continuing where they left off.
I think we should do what the Americans do and introduce vouchers for food, clothing, housing that way all the fraudsters, alcoholics and drug users wasting Taxpayers money would have an incentive to get cleaned up and then maybe we would have a more productive, civil society in which to bring up our children.
i had an heart attack in may £67 a week incapacity benifit awarded council awarded me housing benifit of £12 a week so my rent was £67 a week.....joke or what, had to go back to work earlier than i shud have cos i was in arrears with rent.....bastards
"This is a Catch-22 situation. Do you wait for up to a year, or go out and get a job to pay the rent."
Honestly, is Swatantra off his meds? Being crushed by a callous system designed to reduce payouts to disabled claimants is NOT a Catch-22 situation. Its a bureacratic cruelty situation, its a banal sadism situation. Some people do not understand what it is like to have the totality of your wellbeing, your very existence, mangled by an unfeeling, inhuman process.
All this fuss could be avoided by making unemployment and incapacity benefit the same amount. Anyone genuinely incapacitated would still go through the medical checks as they may need further benefits. Those who are putting it on would not bother as they could just as easily get unemployment benefit. Why won’t the Government do this - because they know it would show the real level of unemployment in this country.
@Simon. You are an idiot. One of the fascist left that brands everyone a nazi for having a different opinion to yours. What sort of moron wishes someone to become ill and how do you know that i have not been?
I work for jobcentreplus and regularly see people getting 30 and 40 k a year in benefits for themeselves and their families. i also see single people on DLA getting more in benefits than i get in full time employment.
There are huge numbers of people on IB because they are fat.the number of teenagers suffering depression is ludicrous. a lot of people do not want to work and why should you when you can get just as much, if not more on benefits.
in Glasgow there is something like 8 times more people claiming sick as opposed to claiming JSA. 20 years ago that figure was the other way around. That tells you everything you need to know about how many people are not really sick and how easy it is to claim these benefits so exsuse me if i don't want to listen to this liberal bullshit from elitist plonkers who do not actually have a bloody clue about the benfits being paid and how easy it is to get them.
Remember what David Cameron said live on television during the Final Electoral Debate 2010 : A country is judged upon how it cares for it's most vulnerable in society in bad times aswell as in good times. He then promised : If you are sick, disabled, frail, vulnerable or the POOREST in society you have nothing to fear if he (David Cameron) becomes prime-minister because h would protct that group of vulnerable people in British society.
David Cameron's election pledge/promise to the most vulnerable in society has turned out to be a pack of bare-faced lies.
How much more can this Government slaughter the most vulnerable in society. It is almost like this Government is hell bent on torturing this group of people.
aye and let this be a warning to all of you on DLA when the new PIP ( personal independence payment ) gets foisted on us disabled folk
this government is out to screw us - they are not interested in helping the disabled - only in driving them into penury - or worse - driving some to suicide - mark me well - there WILL be people who will choose to end it all rather than starve or be homeless
today IB - tomorrow DLA - you been warned people - get active NOW support the groups fighting for YOU
recently baroness murphy accused the black triangle campaign group of spreading "nasty and inaccurate TOSH " and of frightening disabled people " when we have been trying to warn and help those victimized by ATOS and this ( unprintable ) government
its up to YOU who are disabled or long term sick - EITHER get off your butts and start helping in the fight - or take whats coming
BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE IS GOING TO HELP YOU !!
i must admit,reading these posts have made me nervous,i go for my medical on wed,i know i couldnt hold a job down as in lots of pain,do they take you dla straight off you as well as ib,gl to all genuine cases
Sounds like the Tories are considering adopting witch finder tactics. If she floats she's a witch, if she drowns she was innocent. The small % of fakers will accept the judgments, the innocent rest who genuinely can't work will either "plead guilty" when innocent, out of fear (helping the government's "shirker" statistics in the process), or end up destitute, homeless and starve.
I'd have thought there'd be a strong case at the court of human rights against such obviously unfair, inhuman, blackmailing tactics though, if any ill person took them up.
I have undergone the atos test, its a joke honestly, i was sent a letter telling me i was fit for work whilst undergoing my second renal op in three months, you are deemed fit regardless of condition if you can raise one of your hand's above your head, honestly, incidental'y i am a new claimant who has contributed NI all my life.
Seeing as you work for Jobcentre plus then Fraziel, you should have no problem stating what combination of benefits and circumstances are required for someone to claim so much. If it's so widespread I would have thought it would have an obvious and clear signature in the statistics but apparently it doesn't.
So the odds are you are making it up along with the usual talking points you're using to defend an indefensible test. Incapacity Benefit claims barely rose at all since it was introduced and even peaked in 2005 and yet apparently that wasn't enough.
When a test can find someone fit for work simply because they were able to attend, I think it has problems. There is context behind the figures.
If it wasn't for the corrupt politics in the UK in any of my events, I would have been a successful person. However, since I was WRONGFULLY accused of rape and that past and present MP's, MEP's and many others over a SEVENTEEN YEAR PERIOD decided not to help an innocent man wrongfully accused of rape to venture into the legal profession, I am in receipt of incap benefit because those who had kicked me in my spine, made repeated death threats to me, written offensive graffiti about me, killing one of my cats by throwing it under a car and not even help me take my case to the E.C.H.R. too which I am legally entitled to seek legal redress against the UK and to be discriminated by a corrupt feminist college does it give me any scope to even do voluntary work? I must sincerely thank the UK Postal service and the UK also for STEALING my case papers sent to the ECHR knowing that I had an EXCELLENT case but Liberty, The Aire Centre and other human rights groups failed to help an innocent man too. How embarrassing is it to know that I livei n a country that violated my rights as a WHITE BRITISH MALE and that the UK can demand I seek employment to pay for their corruption, lies and perverting the course of justice for EVERY PERSON ;or authority who has been ALLOWED TO ABUSE ME over a SEVENTEEN YEAR period. I am now in a bad state of health due to the UK Gov't and it's corrupt feminist movements within it. Hey you foreigners welcome to the UK where your human rights DO NOT EXIST unless your a terrorist, murderer, or damn pedo. An innocent man's life has been destroyed by corruption, conspiracy, fraud of a college and lies of the social housing networks. I have also been prevented from bidding ;or moving into any of the FIFTY FOUR social housing landlord regions. I have been given LOW POINTS ;OR BANDINGS thus preventing me from moving out to save my life.
@Fraziel l could call you a lot of thingsbut l can't be bothered to. As you seem to be a qualified doctor @ social worker and can make judgement's with out all the facts you must be wasted working at the job centre As l my sister works for the DWP and read your message she has not stoped laughing and when you state about people who do not have a clue about benefits you must be one of them
its easy to say why dont the goverment be in my place then they will find out how life goes.
And for the record i am not a tory but knowing the benefits system inside out as I do i think the coalitions plans are the best thing i have seen any government do in years.
It is a fact, regardless of what lefties and liberals say, that there are large numbers of people perfectly able to work and who do not want to. There may not be many jobs about but you should still be looking. And I also do not believe that genuinely ill people are scroungers. People need benefits, the problem is they are too easy to come by and the rates, in many cases, are far too high.
I resent strongly that my taxes are used to pay a couple from abroad who have claimed asylum ( and British families) with 5 kids 40 k a year in benefits when they have no hope of ever getting a job that pays the 55k a year it would take for them to come off benefits. Meanwhile DWP staff have their terms and conditions attacked,a 2 year pay freeze( and some of them had a 3 year pay freeze before that so that makes 5.) It is grossly unfair and has to stop.
The average earnings cap should put a stop to it and might encourage a bit of personal responsibility too.
If the general public actually knew the rates people were receiving they would be outraged.
Which is one of the reasons Cameron wants the human rights law done away with.He and his minnions Grayling,Duncan-Smith and Miller are callous and inhuman and should not be in the highly and undeserved positions they hold.They simply don't care about the fact that they are pushing people to the edge.They are well enough off to never need any help off the state.And I Thought Thatcher was bad.
where does it say 'for people who were NOT YET claiming.'
51% were classed as unfit to work. so that means 49% where 'fit to work' does it not? all good honest men & women true.., if they ask for money they must deserve it of course, dont ask any questions just hand it out to whoever asks, how silly of anyone to ask for proof
im glad the genuine 51% got awarded their benefits, im sure they are in a difficult situation mostly not by their own choice and im pleased as are most British people that we have a welfare state to look after them.
Ok, the 87% is down to 49% but that will still amount to billions per year in potential fraud and doesnt really change my point at all
@simon, i could not care less what your sister thinks. I have worked for DWP for over twenty years dealing with practically every benefit going at one time or another, and see benefit claims regularly where people are receiving enormous sums of money. Had one last week from a 19 year old who gets high rate DLA care,medium rate mobility,JSA and housing benefit and CT benefit. His JSA and DLA comes to approx £180 per week in his hand. that does not include HB or CT benefit yet he was sufficiently fit and mobile to get sent to prison twice in the last year. DLA is a joke and has to be reformed. So, simple Simon, In your eyes I may not know what I am talking about but i still know about a 1000% more than you do.
@Lenard - Yes, of course. Why do you think this government is so hell-bent on revoking the human rights act? It's not really to prevent foreign criminals being sent back to their country of origin because they own a cat.
I've never known a time like this or a government like this. The lack of compassion or empathy from this government is genuinely terrifying. What people should really keep in mind when this kind of thing goes in is that this is exactly how the Nazi persecution of Jews started. They didn't begin with concentration camps, they started with special Jew taxes, special laws taking away their rights, punitive measures and a propaganda campaign against them.
The parallels between the propaganda campaign waged against those stricken with poverty and that which was waged against Jews is striking, as is the constant drip-drip of new measures which destroy the lives of those who already are at rock bottom.
The suicide rate related to benefit claimants has risen by 49% and these are the succesful ones, no need for appeal if youre dead.
I have long term paranoid schizophrenia. I`m about to attend the ESA test soon. The Job Centre have told me in the past I am unfit for work & thus cant claim JSA, so, if ATOS judge me fir for work what on earth am I suppose to do,and now we are being told we lose benefits when appealing...god help us, hoe do we eat, where do we live.....this situation really scares people like myself, I mean really scared. God help us, cus the tories wont !
@mason Dixon, I am not making up the figures it is just that the figures are so outrageous that you have difficulty believing them.
Couple with 5 kids receiving JSA, child tax credit, child benefit, Housing benefit and Countil tax benefit, would, using a conservative estimate for HB and CT benefit, be receiving approx £35000 per year in benefits. In London it would be far more due to the level of rents.
Fraziel, if there are supposedly hordes of people on disability benefits able to work then how come the Benefit Integrity Project and copy-cat projects from the late 90s and early 2000s failed to find them? What they did instead was accuse 20% of claimants of fraud whilst admitting they couldn't prove it, kicking tens of thousands of severely disabled people off DLA and IB and then having to re-instate them when taken to tribunal?
Of course you work for the DWP so you must already know this. What lessons have been learned from the Benefit Integrity Project?
Why is David Cameron slaughtering the very people that he openly promised on the final electoral televised debate to protect, the (Sick, Disabled, Fail, Vulnerable and POOREST in society ?
Surely a prime-mister cannot get away with such despicale lies that are outright evil, surely not.
This is supposed to be a civilized society but it appears to be moving ever closer to Barbaric Times under David Cameron !
This is not The Nasty Party, it is The Evil Party.
You have not answered @ Mason Dixon Autistic question ?
@Fraziel1 go on if you can, but l doubt you would be able to? As you are so good at making assumptions regarding other peoples level of knowledge and your need to justified yourself
Samira Shackle is a freelance journalist, who tweets @samirashackle. She was formerly a staff writer for the New Statesman.