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RSSRally Against Debt? It was more of a long queue
Lisa Hamilton, who observed the pro-cuts demonstration, was not impressed.
By Lisa Hamilton Published 15 May 2011 19:18
On 26 March nearly half a million people descended on the capital to oppose the government's cuts agenda and demand an alternative. Six weeks later 200 people (I'm being generous) stood on a pavement outside parliament to give a big "thumbs-up" to the same policies.
To say turnout at the Rally Against Debt was low is to be very polite. It was abysmal. Don't think protest. Think long queue.
In an attempt to gloss over the low turnout, one attendee has described the event as "not bad for a Facebook flashmob stunt". (Presumably the usual, good old Tory "blame it on the weather" excuse was rejected due to the unfortunately good weather.)
Hmm. A flashmob is, at least according to Wikipedia, a group of people who assemble to perform a seemingly pointless act often for the purpose of satire. A flash mob is not a publicised event with a shiny website.
The site (which hasn't been updated since a "we're trending on Twitter" post on Friday afternoon) promised a "great networking opportunity", a number of "high-profile guests" and "plenty to do" during the rally.
Unfortunately, the low turnout (Guido Fawkes claimed 500, but it looked less than half that to me) meant that most of the attendees already seemed to know each other and while Ukip's Nigel Farage had indeed flown in for the event, "plenty to do" seemed to involve standing increasingly closer together in order to make the crowd look bigger. There were also a couple of short-lived chants and EU flag-burning for those who like that sort of thing.
Toby Young, one of the most high-profile supporters of the rally, came in for mockery when he missed it – because he took his children to an exhibition about pirates at a (publicly funded) museum.
If the March for the Alternative suggested that a cross-section of society strongly opposed the cuts being made by the Tory government, then the Rally Against Debt suggested that white, middle-class, middle-aged men are opposed to taxation, don't like Europe or public services, but do like chinos, rugby shirts, looking after their own interests, and causing minor obstructions outside parliament.
The Rally Against Debt taught us nothing new. However, it did leave one big question: Why did this failure of an event generate so much news coverage?
Perhaps the snappers enjoyed the novelty of outnumbering the crowd.
You can find Lisa on Twitter: @lefty_lisa
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50 comments
I'm amazed that the Alliance managed to defeat the Empire given the paltry numbers they had on their side.
What's that you say? Taxpayers, not Rebels, I see.....
Dum dum de dum dum de dum dum de dum
Oh yes, ST, it's obviously desperation isn't it. I mean, how can the left not find itself in desperate disarray when it encounters such an impressive mass movement of... er 350 people that everyone is laughing at.
My word, how desperate is Lisa if she has to do the things Mr Cole has pointed out. People like Lisa do the left more harm than good, I am afraid.
BBC: "Around 350 people attended the event in Westminster, according to the Metropolitan Police."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13398966
Why did it generate so much news coverage?
Because the TaxDodgers' Alliance are pretty good at getting headlines based on nothing.
Judging by the placards, I doubt if they generated good publicity.
Shouldn't you add that you left at about 11:30 before the speeches when it peaked?
Don't go all Laurie on us now.
And using the lefties counter protest joke signs is extremlely disingenuous?
shoddy shoddy journalism once again from the New Statesman.
Not even Macintyre would have stooped that low.
Libraries are for Fools?
Excellent....what I've come to expect from the neo-Thatcherite right wing...I bet there's a few in cabinet (Mr Pickles and Mr Hammond) who probably have a LOT of sympathy with such slogans...
Very funny article Lisa. Although, to be fair, the material you had to work with was hilarious in itself so you were always onto a winner. 350 (max) assorted right wing loons and cranks collectively swivelling their eyes and looking pitiful.
When you're trying to organise a right wing populist rally (although not very popular) and even the Daily Mail (the Daily Mail!!!) slates you, you know you're in trouble.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1387058/Spending-cuts-protests-3...
Eh, Harry?
Do you think of yourself as a journalist? If so, surely you should take down that picture? You must know it shows counter protesters and smears those who actually attended the rally.
Mr Sinclair
You are right sir, the people who attended the "rally" are perfectly capable of smearing themselves.
So anyway, a question if I may. Just how would you have countered the reduced consumer demand experienced?
Also do you still have a high ranking member who lives in France?
And what is the point of the TaxDodgers Alliance these days? Seeing as most of you didn't get the expected Spad jobs in the Tory Government?
Note the caption has now changed to "Signs at the Rally Against Debt. The organisers say these are counter-protest placards."
the excuse given is there wasnt many on getty. This one looks appropriate:
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0e4G2LA702bxK/610x.jpg
Good to see that the overwhelming majority don't support the coalition's deficit and debt plans.
Hopefully it will prove so embarassing that they will not hold any more 'rallies'.
There's a bigger queue at our local bustop.
@HarryCole pointed out on Twitter that the original caption, "Protest placards at the Rally Against Debt" could be misread and said that these were counter-protest placards. The caption has been amended to reflect that fact.
To be fair Lou I thought they can organised a scond "rally" today in Tooting Common, but alas it was just 12 people having a kick about.
Perhaps you've got a picture they could use of the guy holding up the placard with 'Read Ayn Rand' written on it in crayon, Harry?
Ayn Rand?
Really? I'm not sure how anyone who has actually read Ayn Rand would be cruel enough to recommend someone else reads it.
Still it seems the world is shrugging at Atlas
Also Harry, I'v seen some of your interviews and pieces so you are on fragile ground accusing people of "stooping low".
Maybe TA stands for Taxpayers and Agoraphobics.
If so that's a decent turnout.
Doesn't look like crayon to me Ed?
http://www.brianmicklethwait.com/images/uploads/DebtSign29.JPG
Harry, it's advising people to read Ayn Rand which is a rather cruel punishment indeed.
Still I guess the world is shrugging at the Rally Against Debt?
Just out interest Mr Cole, what would the Tories have done differently? Given they supported the Labour party spending plans (until 2008 when they suddenly recommended that we commit economic suicide and risk a depression by slashing spending when in a recession, that would of really fixed the depressed consumer confidence I think not) and they also actually wanted less regulation on the banking sector.
@Mathew,
Ah now there's a thought, football against debt - starring all those muti million pound footballers who avoid paying their debt to society, they could be wearing we love Osborne shirts and the supporters - all 350 of them - could all sing those well known footie chants of 'Glory glory David Cameron' or 'There's only one Gideon Osborne' with a rousing version of 'This time we'll get ir right' to finish with.
Far more newsworthy and I daresay enjoyable than a perambulation against debt.
Welcome to Manchester... Rally Against Debt.
Should they wish to come uop nourf one would happily rise from our slumberous-state to make up the numbers.
Shape-up you Snippers !
In answer the final question of the piece, the rally generated so much media attention because most of the media is horribly right wing. The trolls might not accept this but it's true.
Ed Rooksby, you tell me why the left is looking so desperate? Perhaps because despite all the "ukuncut" protest rallies, the attempts by the conservatives to sort out the mess created by Brown and Blair continue unabated and unaffected. It seems like there is nothing those of you on the left can do to change anything. I'm not sure that's the answer though as, try as I may, I cannot understand the basic idea adopted by the left; that my children should pay off our debts.
Fraser Nelson wrote an article in the NOTW, commenting about the Rally against Debt, but failed to mentioned how many attended. He was that ashamed.
It is pathetic that the conservative movement can only muster 350 bodies to turn up.
If Harry Cole wants an example of " Shoddy, Shoddy Journalism " look no further then convicted drink driver Paul Staines.
Didn't he write an article about a so called secret number ten email system ?
Strange how Paul Staines never got around to retracting this false allegation.
I hope the Sergeant of Arms gets around to giving Harry a press pass, that way, he will have one less thing to bleat about.
Is Mr Cole suggesting part of the article is incorrect, then? Perhaps after the writer left 10,000 people turned up, but then presumably left again before any noticed, because everything said in this article tallies with accounts posted elsewhere (even accounts from the pro-cuts side for goodness sake).
Never mind the comparison with the anti-cuts march, the attendance compares miserably even with the Hardest Hit march, which was attended by thousands of people with disabilities (or, y'know, 'lazy scroungers'). The only disappointing thing about this piece is that it gives these guys a little more publicity - publicity they really don't deserve.
Right-wingers seem to realise that the best way to effect political change is by voting. Big union protests are really just vanity and public masturbation. The fact that the Tories got a higher popular vote than Labour in the local elections is, in my opinion, pretty good evidence that most people recognise the cuts are necessary.
Like a lot of people here, disgusted that you are using counter-protest photos as genuine. The first line of the speech from Farage "We are not here to celebrate the closing of libraries or that low paid public sector workers are losing their job" and the sentiment was cheered.
Come up, you need to do better.
That said, with all the publicity, we'll be much bigger next time :)
http://www.dbirkin.blogspot.com
Hang on, wasn't it just a few weeks ago that the Right were pointing at footage of a small group of opportunist rioters amid the anti-cuts protests and crowing "Ha! UK Uncut are a bunch of thugs!"? And now they're expecting us to look at the photo above and believe them when they say "Ah, but those people weren't with us you see..."?
I think until they admit that the rioters did not represent the anti-cuts protests, we have no choice but to believe what we see and assume that Rally Against Debt really do hate libraries and schools. And as such are a national disgrace.
I was one of the stewards at the event and the portly guy holding the 'libraries suck' is German. Him and the lady were indeed counter protesters.
My guess as to the low turn out is that protest and demonstration just isn't really part of the libertarian political movement or ideal - libertarianism is inherently individualistic and strives for negative freedom (as in 'leave us alone') rather than the sort of positive rights which have been won by protest and political struggle. Look around the globe and throughout history: large scale protest is a tool used by socialist, nationalist or religious movements, all three of which tend to suppress individuality, all three of which thrive on mobilising 'the masses'.
Fact is, even the Guardian poll showed that the cuts are supported by a majority in this country.
The fact is that the right wing press is powerful and dominant because people broadly agree with what it has to say - they vote with their wallets.
But I guess that sort exercise of choice is evil capitalism. Ideally the BBC and Guardian would be the only media outlets, and and all those bigoted and misinformed Daily Mail readers could be gently reeducated.
Steven, the difference here being that the UKuncut nutters, were against the cuts, the TUC march was against the cuts.
The rally are pro-cuts, the counter protesters are against the cuts.
I know it's subtle but maybe you can see the difference,
Mathew,
Tories were fools to make the populist pledge in 2008 and i said so at the time.
RAD was extremely anti gov. Most there accepted that at this rate Osborne is merely rearranging deckchairs.
@Alexander Mitchell - I'm afraid the picture is of a left wing infiltrator. He gets detained shortly afterwards and the police made him sit in a weird fenced of area. ( Perhaps he'd been asked to kettle himself? )
Of course there is a difference between cutting debt and cuts - and that difference is the rate of taxation. Since the left ditched honest politics about 15 years ago we don't hear about that any more.
So is that the British "Tea party" then? I am reassured now. They won't take over any time soon.
This is like watching sheep demanding to be turned into lamb chops.
Meanwhile everybody has forgotten about the bankers...who are pocket ting their bonuses again and the big corporations who are still not paying their taxes. I despair.
Joseph, you make some good points there. The left-wing UKuncut protestors certainly give the impression that strength in numbers is somehow a substitute for intellectual strength. Those of us who think it's our responsibility to pay the debts because we all benefitted from them, rather than passing them on to our children and their children, feel comfortable enough in our view to not need it validated by large numbers of people around us.
Of course, one could argue that those 350 protestors have already achieved more than all the UKUncut rioters...check the policies of the Government for verification.
We could always keep pretending debts not a problem, we could always do that Obama is proposing to do. Increase the debt ceiling, keep on borrowing, keep on spending, and leave the debt for future generations to deal with. Is that the right thing to do?
Dave C
15 May 2011 at 19:03 Because the TaxDodgers' Alliance are pretty good at getting headlines based on nothing.
'TaxDodgers'. Most pay their taxes, most have no choice, most fully understand to have a good society you have to pay for it. The problem starts when them taxes are miss-spent, squandered, and miss-used. Just like our previous government did.
We should all stop pretending that debt is a problem and own up to the fact that higher government spending is the right way to generate demand when the economy is sluggish. Economists have known this since the 1930s, only the politically-motivated seek to deny it.
At present the government is borrowing at a rate less than inflation, so even with interest payments included, the burden of paying it back is going down as time goes on.
We should all stop pretending that debt is a problem. Increasing government spending when the economy is sluggish is the right way to promote a recovery. Economists have known this since the 1930s and only the politically-motivated seek to deny it.
Right now the government is borrowing at a lower rate than inflation, so paying it back, including the interest, is increasingly less of a burden as time goes on.
More cuts would make Cameron even more unpopular with the public sector and play into the hands of Labour although with Ed "Micheal Foot" Miliband in charge Cameron should feel safe at least for the next four years.
"shoddy shoddy journalism once again from the New Statesman.
Not even Macintyre would have stooped that low."
Says Harry Cole who operates from the sewers.
These days thugs also come in pin striped suits. They are upping their game, so beware.
You never know, circumstances may determine that Ed suddenly finds himself catapaulted into the position of 'The Unknown PM'. Nothing is certain. There could be a massive falling out out between the Coalition Partners.
"Do you think of yourself as a journalist? If so, surely you should take down that picture?"
Matthew Sinclair, are you a sucker for punishment? You'll be laughed at more loudly if they printed a picture of the bus queue rally.
@ Helen L-H:
The fact that the people you've chosen to use a picture of were anti-cuts protesters, not part of the RAD, is not simply the opinion of the organisers, it was the opinion of the police on the day who asked them to leave the event and allocated them a separate space. This is truly shoddy journalism of the NS of the standard most of us have sadly come to expect from you.
the tories had numbers where it counts - at the ballot boxes - they cannot get a majority because labour has created voters by viciously expanding the welfare state!
Perhaps people didnt turn up because they were at work! unlike many of the scroungers. Or perhapsthey didn't turn up because protests should be about serious things ie freedom in eastern european states or in the middle east.
No one likes cuts, but labour has almost bankrupted us. The worse part is when idiots like blanchflower argue that this debt is sustainable and not a problem - try telling that to the millions of people in high personal debt! THe real issue is debt denial. Cutting the welfare state and making work pay (for both rich and poor) is the only solution. Its tragic how people refuse to work for even 10 pounds an hour, because benefits are too high. would these people work if benefits were non-existant? many, i suspect would - the rest would steal or find another person to leach off ie someone working or with money!
Of course being a Tory and voting Tory is shameful, but it never stop people.
I Turned up to march,,,bad news I got in the queue for the chip shop by error...good news it was more effective and the chips were excellent.
I went to have a look and yes, there were but a few handfuls of people. There were a couple of people in red trousers, too, but I didn't see any mustard cords.
But be fair: if protests are really about media generated, however, then it was extremely effective. So the person above saying that there were more photographers than demonstrators is in fact, talking the event up. It was a great PR stunt.
Plus, if people really think a chubby dork holding a banner saying LIBRARIES SUCK is a genuine protestor, then they're fools.
There's a cross-party consensus for cuts. True?
Martin:
Do you wish to go back to Victorian times then?When people without work were abandoned by society (as well as the sick) and when the only way to survive was whoring for the women and stealing for the men??
I bet you describe yourself as a Christian if asked, too.
On a more selfish point of view,which you might understand, aren't you scared to be murdered in your bed by people left with no resources and nothing to lose?
Quite frankly, even if some people cheats the benefit system, it is a price worth paying.I certainly would not like to see society sink to the bottom of chaos and mayhem just to save a bit of tax money. It is not only selfish, uncivilised and regressive to abandon people in need, it is also very very stupid.
It seems closet Tories are back again. Based on exit polls, the 1992 election was forecast to end in a hung parliament when in fact the result was a majority for the Tories. It appears many voters lied when they said they had not voted Tory. The Tory reputation as a party of the rich, greedy, uncaring, divisive, brutal, destructive and privileged means most don't want to be associated with them publicly so they confess their allegiance in the closet of the voting booth.
For closet Tories, read those ashamed to admit to voting Tory. There are quite a few of them around these day, unfortunately many from the working class.
Surely the picture in question was chosen by one of your sub editors?