Is Brown going to scupper a Lib-Lab deal?
Labour leader reportedly “delivered a diatribe laced with threats” to Nick Clegg.
By George Eaton Published 08 May 2010 13:12
The BBC reports that Gordon Brown "delivered a diatribe laced with threats" when he spoke to Nick Clegg last night by phone.
The Liberal Democrat source added that this was in contrast to "the respectful and constructive talks" between Clegg and David Cameron.
Clegg has expressed frustration with Brown's negotiating style before, most notably after the cross-party talks on MPs' expenses in June. It was Brown's obstinate approach, Lib Dems say, that turned their leader against the Prime Minister.
As a result, it's unlikely that Labour could strike a deal with Clegg without at least offering a timetable for Brown's departure. But it would be a pity if the latter's tribal style prevented us even reaching this point.
UPDATE: A Liberal Democrat source has denied that the conversation was "angry" and says it was perfectly amicable, according to the BBC's Laura Kuenssberg.
Yet, true or not, the story has already strengthened the hand of those who argue that Brown must resign as a precondition of any Lib-Lab deal.
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33 comments
Arrogant Mr Clegg (just 23% of the vote) presumes to make his decision before consulting Brown, then has the gall to ring him up and tell him to resign???
He'd've got a bloody diatribe from me too!!!!!!
How convenient that this rumour emerged just before the Clegg/Cameron date match. First rule of a decent journalist: ask yourself who benefits from unattributed rumours, and why now? There will be lots more unsourced rumours and gossip circulating, which journalists will circulate without bothering to ask where they come from. Perfect scenario for Coulson, Murdoch and the usual fall guys in the media. Don't believe anything you hear is the only rational response.
There are two urgent tasks at hand. First, to prevent keeling of economy. Second, to deliver long overdue election reform. And that is thing which irks supporters of status quo so they do their best to scupper deal. There is huge bunch of cheerleaders constantly braying for Gordon Brown's head and that affects him. But, be honest, on both counts he is more likely to deliver than David Cameron.
Don't forget one thing; Tories lead country into this minefield of overly deregulated financial system. If New Labour continued with same course, it does not mean Tories can and will find way out.
Decide about new election system and then call elections under new rules. That newly reflected parliament will better mirror will of the people then current one.Therefore, will have stronger mandate for radical changes.
Be patient with a confused Yank who does not understand your system. If your UK Constitution is "unwritten" then how does anyone know what it says with any certainty?
WHY DO PEOPLE WANT A YES ,NO PERSON GOVERNING OUR COUNTRY.i do recall WINSTON CHURCHILL could be quite flippant.the fact is he knew what was best,why deny the same attribute to BROWN?our memories seem short lived it was him and darling that got endorsements from other nations when we were looking at the abysee(banks).cameron and osbournes ideas by many would have led us into double dip/DEPRESSION.theres an old saying walk before you can run(country).remember we cannot afford or should i say who's in power cannoit afford a cockup because the BRITISH PEOPLE wont forget and forgive if their decision is wrong.HEED WARNINGS.COALITION IS A MUST.2/3/4 heads are better than 1/2
Patrick to give you a bit of background on how it works here, I've located you the following reference.
Prime Minister and Government
The Prime Minister is appointed by the Sovereign. When one party has an absolute majority in the House of Commons, the Sovereign appoints the leader of that party as Prime Minister. When there is a hung parliament, or the identity of the leader of the majority party is not clear (as was often the case for the Conservative Party up to the 1960s, and for all parties in the nineteenth century), the Sovereign has more flexibility in their choice. The Sovereign appoints and dismisses other ministers on the advice of the Prime Minister (and such appointments and dismissals occur quite frequently as part of cabinet reshuffles). The Prime Minister, together with other ministers, form the Government. The Government often includes ministers whose posts are sinecures (such as the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster) or ministers with no specific responsibilities (minister without portfolio): such positions may be used by the Prime Minister as a form of patronage, or to reward officials such as the Chairman of the ruling Party with a governmental salary.
If the Commons votes against the Government on a matter of confidence, the Prime Minister must either resign (along with the entire government) or ask the Sovereign to dissolve parliament and call fresh elections.The Government usually resigns immediately after defeat in a general election: however this is not required: for example Stanley Baldwin's government lost its majority in the general election of December 1923, but did not resign until defeated in a confidence vote in January 1924.[11] A request by the Prime Minister to dissolve parliament is usually granted by the Sovereign: however the Sovereign may refuse such a request immediately after a general election, and instead invite another leader to form a government.[12]
The Prime Minister and all other ministers take office immediately upon appointment by the Sovereign. In the United Kingdom, unlike many other countries, there is no requirement for a formal vote of approval by the legislature either of the Government as a whole or of its individual members before they may assume office.
The Prime Minister and all other Ministers must serve concurrently as members of the House of Commons or House of Lords, and are obliged by collective responsibility to cast their Parliamentary votes for the Government's position, regardless of their personal feelings or the interests of their constituents. The Prime Minister is normally a member of the House of Commons. The last Prime Minister to be a member of the House of Lords was Alec Douglas-Home; however, he resigned from the Lords and became a member of the Commons shortly after his appointment as Prime Minister in 1963. The last Prime Minister to serve a full administration from the House of Lords was Robert Cecil, 3rd Marquess of Salisbury, who served until 1902.
Thus the executive ("Her Majesty's Government") is "fused" with Parliament. Because of a number of factors, including the decline of the Sovereign and the House of Lords as independent political actors, an electoral system that tends to produce absolute majorities for one party in the Commons, and the strength of party discipline in the Commons (including the built-in payroll vote in favour of the Government), the Prime Minister tends to have sweeping powers checked only by the need to retain the support of his or her own MPs. The phrase elective dictatorship was coined by former Lord Chancellor Quintin Hogg in 1976 to highlight the enormous potential power of government afforded by the constitution.[13]
The need of a Prime Minister to retain the support of his own MPs was illustrated by the case of Margaret Thatcher, who resigned in 1990 after being challenged for the leadership of the Conservative Party. The strength of party discipline within the Commons, enforced by the whip system, is shown by the fact that the two most recent votes in which a Government was defeated occurred in 1986 and 2005.
In short our legislation is complex but there will be a written law about the constitution, wrapped up in some ancient statute but in this country it'll be there in volumes!!
Hope this helps your understanding.
I voted Lib dems but never imagined that Nick Clegg could ever do a deal with the Tories.
One must hope now that the Lib dems have really thought hard about sharing its coalition power with the other side.
Cameron really thought he was just going to waltz straight into No 10 following the election votes, but he was sadly mistaking...which too many people in GB was relieved
Seems that now he made every viable effort to be the next PM.
I really hope Clegg as been very careful not to guarantee the Tories more power with this coalition for the next 5yrs ahead...
as days go by the chances of lablib become more and more difsstant. seems to me like this whole thing has been manufactured by toy and clegg and possibly libdem as a whole. before you scoff there are connections between cleggs wife and tory members its been one big dirty set up the whole time. newlabour is a 13 year beast why decapitate it ? gordon brown himself iis all that stands between tory and number 10. before you scoff labour have verry rarely won an election with a new face, that's what they were sayingg oon bbcs coverage of the election.
Oh christ. I partly want Cameron in No 10 to take the full force of the debt crisis, but I honestly believe that the Tories lost and that voters want a government that isn't Tory (though they can't agree on what kind exactly). A 'rainbow left' coalition could at least form a majority government (and would have polled much more than a simple majority of votes). Does Gordon Brown want to be hated by even the few supporters he has left?
If this is true Brown has shown once again, and hopefully for the last time, that he is unfit to lead a political party let alone a government. I hope that whilst saying they are behind Brown his colleagues are actually making arrangements for his replacement. There is an opportunity for the left in politics which may not recurr for a generation. Labour leaders need to get it right and set aside their natural tribalism.
The problem with dealing with Cameron over PR is that cameron can call an election at any time, get a majority and then effectively stab the LibDems in the back. Sometimes the respectful man is actually the scheming psycho!
Unless we introduce a rule of fix parliaments of 4 years, we will never have effective coalitions because the parties do not have to work with each other. Parties like the Conservatives will always prefer to call election after election till they get a majority. That is the ultimate face of an undemocratic system. Fix parliaments mean parties have to work with one another.
As Dave said, the true winner with 23%+29% of the vote is actually a left social reform party coalition.
The Tories did not win. With only 3% more of the vote than Michael Howard how can Cameron claim to have public support! Again showing that FPTP delivers undemocratic nonsense.
The Liberals aren't left, though. It's led by Orange-bookists.
Yes, plenty of people will have voted Liberal Democrat due to the wish to keep the Tories out, but the party itself is not left-wing in any meaningful sense- those people have been duped.
Clearly, George has not read Chris McLaughlin's expose in Tribune of Mandelson/Milliband/Clegg machinations (prior to the start of the election campaign) to stitch Brown up - hence the 'dark lord's' inability to organise anything approaching a LP platform... think about whether the country would be facing a Tory government if it had.... This is the ultimate Blairite coup! Is New Statesman supporting the new SDP envisaged by Mandleson (new Foreign Sec), and David Milliband (PM?)and Vince Cable Chancellor?)? ... or is this 1997 all over again?... Trick the population and the left-wingers into voting for the destruction of the LP. This headline is more of what McLaughlin calls 'A very British Coup'... Read him!
'How they undermined Gordon to get into bed with Clegg'
I would dismiss this rumour. Some people will believe anything.
MikeSC: Rather. Can't help feeling a LibCon coalition would help Labour. They're still the most left-wing of the main parties*, and this would most likely destroy the left image of the Liberals.
*This is a depressing thought.
That's a good point Daniel, maybe a Lib Con vote would damage the liberal image, I also think any degree of left sidedness will have the Tory back bencher's realing in horror, fact is a lib con pact just won't work, surely Clegg is not so dumb that he can't see it!
Graeme - I am open to being wrong - however, you offer no explanation as to why you dismiss this rumour, whereas Tribune offers facts and figures.
Daniel R - I agree completely with your analysis, which is why I no longer want a Lib-Lab government... a strong Labour opposition may be the least worst option!
George, I agree with what you're saying, and am quite happy to see the back of Gordon if that's necessary, but I don't like 'true or not'. Where's your moral compass, not to mention your common sense? If it's not true, it's a calculated lie invented someone who means no good to you or me or the Labour Party.
The more you think about it, the more you realise that the Tories and Libs just work it out, it'll never be a formal coalition; just a dodgy set up reliant on motion by motion support. May be it's best to let Cam 'squat' in no 10 whilst Lab and Lib get on with some constructive progression with Milliband as a more dynamic force, it'll turn the press against Cameron, they can work out electoral reform and hey presto at the next election (which surely isn't that far away) the public can put their vote for a more believable and credible government who are right on the economy. The public just don't go for Cameron on cost cutting, that's why he got nowhere!
How naive.
'Lib Dem sources' obviously said this in order to try to absolve themselves from progressive anger at the propsect of them going into partnership with the Tories - pretending it was somehow Labour's fault.
It is a shabby tactic. If the Libs do fall in with the Tories, they will anger many of their voters, and this should provide rich pickings for Labour at a second election in the near future.
The economy's so badly wrecked by Labour's 13 spendthrift years that the choice is now between short-term economic pain or long-term economic pain. Doesn't matter which colour of the political spectrum you like.
I hope Brown is being forceful with Clegg. The man has conned a lot of left wing voters in to believing the Lib Dems are the new party of the left. Clegg is nothing more than a charlatan.
This is a once in a lifetime chance to change the face of British politics forever and marginalise the Tories for good.A lib/Lab coalition government must emerge from the hung parliament situation, Lib dems must see this as the chance to introduce PR within the first term of the new administration and Labour have to seize the chance to remain in power and to marginalise the Tories for good. Ego's must not be allowed to get in the way of this historic opportunity and both parties must be ruthless in their approach to achieving genuine consensus politics and goverments that actually reflect the views not only of the actists but of the British people.
Nick Clegg is the real heir to Blair!
The only reason for a Lib-Con coalition is to get 'the [desperate] squatter' out of Number 10!
The spectrum of political parties have got wider. In other words, the voters had more choice of small independent parties or individuals (otherwise known as 'Others' at General Elections). Therefore the Labour party making desperate claims that there was more 'anti-Conservatives votes' is total nonsense, when the Convservatives received over 2 million more votes than the Labour party.
David Cameron's Conservatives has won nearly 100 constituencies. Jolly Good Show!
Brown should stay. A Lab-Lib pact is viable!
Ive shorted Sterling as much as I can, hence the comment!
Severe political fantasy can only work with capital controls, e.g. North Korea etc
Lib-Lab coalition limited to a two-year life. Brown agrees to step down within six months. Referendum on PR. Election in two years (or less) under new voting system (assuming it passes).
Should this happen, it would be the first government since 1935 to come into office backed by over 50% of those who voted in the election. That must be democratic, mustn't it?
Incidentally, Brown is not a 'desperate squatter' refusing to budge. He's a caretaker PM, under very strict limitations as to what he can do. Clegg chose to negotiate with Cameron first, which is hardly Brown's fault. Someone has to be PM while this goes on.
I am a yank, but your election is interesting.
Serveral great Presidents on this side of the pond had trouble breaking 50% majority, but where great anyways.
You know I'm pretty sick and tired of all the Brown bashers, yes it's time to go but only because the vast majority of the electorate is so ignorant that it judges parties on personalities. Brown was a good chancellor, not many said he wasn't any I certainly didn't hear much of any contstructive value being proferred by any effective opposition at the time. He has handled the recession in a way that has made it far less painful for many than it was in the 1990's and don't kid yourself this wasn't a global recesssion. The banks were to blame for creaming huge commission based bonus payments for sub prime lending that should never have been given and for selling credit to people who couldn't afford it, that's not Brown's fault, it's down to the banks and you can be absolutely sure that Cameron would never upset the banking baron's because they prop up his party! For christ sakes let's hope and pray that Labour and Liberal come together and talk sense on economic recovery not the barmy Tory plans to make the rich richer whilst everyone else faces a hard time. Cameron is talking rubbish on welfare reform and the idea that you can maintain public services by making cost efficiency savings just don't bear out. The tories will just put more and more people on the dole and none of us want that!
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