The "public" may be "fed up with being lectured all the time" - aren't "greenies" members of the public? - but most people have never taken any notice and haven't changed their behaviour, so I'm not really sure what the point of this article is, other than yet more green-bashing. And eating shark fin soup may date back to the MIng Dynasty, but that doesn't mean that people can't find something else to eat now that we know just how cruel it is to hack off sharks' fins and leave them to drown in the sea - and that sharks are now becoming endangered.

And your claim that environmentalism is filling some kind of void now that fewer people believe in a god is rather defensive, but it's probably pointless trying to argue with you, judging by the biased language in and aggressive tone of this article.

Wake up to reality indeed. Perhaps some of our Christian friends could start with a careful reading of their own Bible, beginning with Deuteronomy, Ch.20, where God orders the Israelites to commit what we today would call genocide: "thou shalt leave none alive that breatheth." In fact the entire O.T. is essentially an attempt to justify the Israelites' invasion of Canaan and the slaughter and enslavement of its people. "Yes, we murdered all those people but it's ok because God told us to do it, and we're God's chosen people."

And the N.T. isn't much better; it's basically a ruler's charter. The essential message there is "don't ask questions, follow the rules, believe what we tell you, obey those whom it has pleased God to place in authority over you, and God will reward you in Heaven - after you die"

Not a promise I'd put much trust in.

I've never heard such nonsense. The comments here show that we are heading into the dark ages again! All you are doing is fitting reality to suit. You need to get out more. And if you are going to study history, try going a bit beyond tabloid pseudo-intellectualism.

Does anyone have anything to say that they actually know about?? Over-generalisations and opinion forming comments make me puke.

Piers Cadell:
What is your problem? If we are all talking nonsense here please enlighten us with your knowledge and wisdom. Can't wait for your precious and informed views.
Why don't you tell us what you think, instead of pouring contempt on everyone.
By the way your second comment makes no sense at all. We thickies need more explanations.

A BIG THANK YOU to you AdrienCruden for this thorough and detailed historical account of the evil effects of the Catholic church had on scientific research and scientists.
And like he says it looks as if today's church carries on with its tradition of attempting to stifle the truth and its hate of science.
Environmentalists it appears are the new heretics! If they could, they would tie them all on the stake and burn them.
Thank God (!)today, most of the world (unfortunately not all) ignores what the Pope has to say.

I welcome a return to the "old religion".At least paganism is harmless, give or take a few human sacrifices, as opposed to the Catholic Church which has brought untold misery in the world for centuries.
And I am sick and tired of hearing people call Science or Ecology new religions. They are the OPPOSITE of religion. It is not because there are a few environmentalist fanatics that their convictions constitute a religion.No one would suggest that certain political views constitute a religion. Why Science? There is a semantic confusion here. Somebody should check again the meaning of the word :"religion".Last time I checked you needed a god or gods, some supernatural being(s), for beliefs to be religious beliefs.
Therefore the article above is full of utter nonsense. Sorry Sholto.

I forgot to mention many finned species of shark are dying out due to finning:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKN1560772220080217

Educate yourself!
http://www.lacan.com/zizecology1.htm

I do like the fact that Byrnes, in trying to put down the virtues of environmentalism based on science, equates it to religion. Is he suggesting that James Lovelock is in the mind of environmentalists the new high priest of Gaia? Surely, not. But if we are not to rely on science for our opinions on the state of the earth, what shall we rely on? And there is the problem, it is of little use to criticise the foundation of our opinions when what the author really has a problem with is our attitudes about those who don't share our convictions. That is not the fault of science, scientists, or planet earth, that is a failure of human reason. Perhaps that failure would have been a better target than science, not so?

As for all the virtues of the Catholic Church and it's unity through Jesus Christ, tell that to the Aztecs, if you can find them. Alternatively, I will be open to a lecture on what the Catholic Church did to protect the pre-Columbian pagans from the post-Columbian Christians.

To AdrianCruden et al,

It is popular to bash the church, and the anti-christian media ensures a daily dripfeed of ammo for the likes of you (and the general public). No, you are not thinking for yourself.

If you were, you might see that it is only Religion, and perhaps your Mum, that teaches good ethics.

Ask yourself: is it the Pope and Religion that is behind our bombing of mud houses in Afghanistan and Iraq from six miles up (or is it the greed of the Merchants of oil?)? Is it Religion that keeps the Palistinians walled-up (or is it the Greed of landgrabbers and the Merchants of Zionism)? Is it Religion that promotes our bloated western diet (or the greed of a monstrous food industry)?

You hold the trite views of a person who's never know hunger in his family, unlike the families of the 50,000 who die each day from poverty.

The majority of the world clings to religion because it is a comfort. They don't need the analytics of a cold, prissy theorist like yourself because You, and your ilk, and the West and Israel, are fat, greedy swine.

When the anti-Christian media have finished stripping you of religion, you'll no longer protest at their bombing of mudhuts from six miles up, the mistreatment of Palistinians and their families, and the foisting of mad science on our farming.

Honest to God, isn't everything in the West now tainted?

Peter Brown:
I find really rich that you are telling ME to wake up to reality!! "The Catholic church has supported Science throughout history" Is this a joke ? Scores of scientists were persecuted by the Church throughout Europe for centuries.( and Galileo was certainly NOT "a Glitch") As to the moral standing of the Church, how about the lovely institution of the Inquisition which murdered thousands of innocent people the again through centuries and throughout Europe.
And like RFM reminds us, this is not to mention the destruction of ancient civilisation such as the Incas, Aztecs etc.. What is consistent with the Catholic Church throughout history is the systematic persecution of anyone who did not believe or anyone who challenged the authority of the Pope, and anyone who had a different world view ie. the scientists.People died at the stake for maintaining that the Earth was not flat, for Goodness sake! Science was the worst news for any system of irrational beliefs and scientists were heretics who had to be eliminated.
Today you have the scandal of the Catholic priests in the USA and Ireland who abused children for decades and got away with it because the Church hierarchy was protecting them.
YOU wake up Peter Brown and start reading some history and stop patronising people on this site.
Your aggressive atheist.

I'm a Melkite Catholic and a Qualified Medical scientist. I think everyone ranting on about this topic needs to begin looking at both sides of the story.

Yes the Catholic church has alot to answer for, but so does every other religion and every other corporation and institution on earth. I find it amusing that people choose to point fingers all day when dispair happens all around us from all corners.

On the topic of abortions, as a healthcare technician and having thorough knowledge on cells and conception. Whilst i may be looking at a cluster of cells, i still respect the fact that its a life of its own. The catholic church doesn't just make judgements based on the bible, they are well educated people who are informed before releasing publications and decisions to the masses.

To the person who stated that overpopulation and Aids was the Catholic Churches fault, you lost the respect of anyone in this room by that very idiotic comment. Aids is spread by sex with someone that is infected by Aids, nothing else. Overpopulation is being caused mainly by the Hindu and Muslim faiths. Catholicism is on the downward trend, these other two faiths are on the rise simply because of their members producing large families. Get your facts right please before spewing out garbage like that.

Whilst i think science should progress forward, i think they should respect human life whilst doing so, that lack of respect is going to be the end of us all.

To the person quoting scripture from thousands of years ago, please stop talking. You make the assumption that we all follow every word of the bible without thinking for ourselves. Stop making catholics out to be mindless drones following every word fed to them. The majority of catholics spread the good word, not the bad.

Much like science proves to disprove themselves in the sake of progress; the church and its followers argue against its own doctrines all the time for the sake of better social morality.

To the people pointing fingers about the priests who have molested young children. This is a major embarassment of the Catholic church, but here is the difference how aften does this happen in other faiths (not naming names) and it is not only pro

I still think catholicism has spread more love and compassion than pain and death ever in its existence. I also think science has helped billions towards a better life, but both need to learn to work together and respect each other before leap frogging themselves into the future.

What is wrong with worshipping God's creation itself?

The sun, the moon, the stars, the air, the trees, the rivers, the sea -- we cannot live for a day without them.

For me, that makes them divine because they give us the ultimate gift of life. Organised religions on the other hand have given us nothing but death and destruction.

Nature gives us life. Organised religions give us death. Which one should we hold divine and worshhip with reverence?