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Veils of ignorance and fear

What does loathing of the hijab really mean?

Peoples of all faiths and of none should cheer news that Egypt's religious authorities are expected to issue a ban on the wearing of the niqab, or face veil. During a visit to a girls' school in Cairo, says the BBC, "Sheikh Mohamed Tantawi, dean of al-Azhar University, called full-face veiling a custom that has nothing to do with the Islamic faith." He instructed a pupil to take off her niqab, a move that has provoked predictable opposition from other clerics.

According to al-Jazeera: "Sheikh Safwat Hijazi, a scholar and preacher, said he would personally sue anyone who prevented his daughter or wife wearing full niqab from going about her daily life, including entering government offices. "Preventing a woman from wearing what she wants is a crime," Hijazi said. "Whoever says the niqab is a custom is not respectable."

That there can be a debate about this, however, is an advance in itself, especially when the Islamic credentials of the al-Azhar dean are so strong. (I was going to say "not open to question", but a) people are already questioning them and b) debate has to involve questioning, so it is another advance that no one's authority should be considered so absolute that it cannot be challenged.)

It is hard to argue that covering a woman's face does much to benefit her in any way at all. But what about the hijab? More specifically, what about western attitudes towards women wearing the headscarf here in Europe? Reading one passage in Brian Whitaker's new book, What's Really Wrong With the Middle East (which I will be reviewing for the NS), made me think about this.

When armies move on the ground to conquer and subjugate, they need moral and ideological cover. It is this that gives the dominant narrative of the "Muslim woman" its raison d'être. No wonder that the "Muslim woman" liberation warriors, the likes of Nick Cohen, Christopher Hitchens and Pascal Bruckner, were the same people who cheered American/British troops as they blasted their way through Kabul and Baghdad, and who will no doubt cheer and dance once more should Iran or Syria be bombed next. Soldiers shoot with their guns; they with their pens. They are hegemony's apologists.

Whitaker was quoting an article by Soumaya Ghannoushi, which you can find here. She was dealing with the situation in the Middle East, but it seems to me that those who are most vociferous in their opposition to the wearing of the hijab in Europe are taking, whether they realise it or not, an equally hegemonistic approach. For the underlying assumption is that no woman could ever freely choose to wear such an oppressive item of clothing, and that any who claim to have made such a choice of their own volition are suffering from some sort of false consciousness.

This very clearly represents a particular western, liberal vision of what freedom for women is, and as such is a perfectly valid view. What is not valid, however, is for this view to become so set that it is no longer open to argument; for the hijab to become an object of fear and hatred, utterly alien and "other", and subject to legal restriction. Last month the Flemish authorities banned the wearing of the hijab in schools, producing this reaction from the Antwerp imam Nordine Taouil: "We are getting the signal of 'you are not welcome'."

It doesn't help that those who view the headscarf in this way seem to listen only to the likes of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who has said that she sees no difference between Islam and Islamism. (For good measure, her view of the Prophet Muhammad is that: "By our standards, he was a pervert. He ordered the killing of Jews and homosexuals and apostates, and the beating of women.") She doesn't call for the hijab to be banned, but she obviously doesn't see it as a choice anyone should make. "You can wear whatever it is that you want, you can give out whatever message that you want to give out -- but you have to understand that if that message is rejected, then you can't call people Islamophobic and expect to be taken seriously. If you choose to wear a veil, people might ridicule and oppose you," she said in an interview with the Independent's Johann Hari.

That, frankly, sounds to me exactly like an encouragement to ridicule and opposition, and to Islamophobia. And all of this is loaded into the wearing of the hijab -- when one doesn't have to look very far back in European history to find plenty of Christian women whose heads were covered by scarves, too (you could find many in villages in the Balkans and eastern Europe today where that is still the case).

Now it would be fair to admit that I would be surprised if my wife, my sisters-in-law, or any of my bare-headed, female Muslim friends, chose to start wearing the hijab. I would certainly ask them why they had chosen to do so. I hope, though, that I wouldn't be horrified. Why should I be, if I feel no such thing when I see the hijab-wearing girls walking to school near me in north London, or the similarly clad woman who looks after the crèche at my gym?

Some women who wear the hijab may be oppressed, but others are not. For many it may be no more arduous a convention or choice than the expectation that men working in the City of London should possess a pinstriped suit and a pair of smart shoes. Western liberals are right to argue for women's rights, but there are far more worthy battles than this. Equally, it would be a useful step for them to consider that, for some women, wearing the hijab is perfectly normal.

Should this be a battle they engage in at all? They may conclude that it is. It would be better, however, if they stopped to ask this of themselves occasionally, rather than contenting themselves with demonising a piece of cloth.

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38 comments from readers

Winniethepooh
07 October 2009 at 19:34

Thank you for this article. Very true.

Alia
07 October 2009 at 23:52

Very well written article...People who disagree with the wearing of hijab/niqab have no right to state this is something that a person should be ridiculed for! This is outright promotion of discrimination based on religion and appearance and displays the ignorance of those who feel that everyone should conform to his or her own social mores....Shameful

Daniele
08 October 2009 at 00:37

I couldn't disagree more. No it is not just a piece of cloth and it is disingenuous to claim that it is.

It is a symbol. a symbol of inferiority and passivity, a symbol of deference to men and shame in front of God, it is the symbol of centuries of female oppression in the name of God. Females have to cover themselves to hide their sexuality from male desire which, everyone knows is uncontrollable, to the point where victims of rape are the guilty part in an Afghan court.

Please don't tell me we are making a fuss over nothing when we talk about the hijab or niqab.

As a western woman I am offended when I see a woman who feels she has to hide herself, it makes me uncomfortable . She and definitely her husband must think women like me should be ashamed and cover themselves.These clothes are out of place in a secular country and I feel that if Muslim people choose to come and live in the West, they should adopt Western customs and Western clothing .After all when I went to a Muslim country I did wear a scarf not to offend, why, if they choose to live here, couldn't they do the same?

My way of life would not be tolerated in a Muslim country so can't we encourage them to integrate better ?. Abandoning the hijab would be a useful step which would reduce animosity towards them and help them to integrate.

This is how the French are handling this delicate problem. The French president, whom I normally disagree with, wants to make the wearing of the full veil illegal because of security issues and because this type of clothing is offensive to other women and has no place in a free society where men and women are equal.I couldn't agree more with this view.

After all, if living in a Western society is so odious to extreme Muslims, they should consider moving to a country where their beliefs can be accommodated better.

As to the argument that some women choose to wear the veil freely, what is meant by freely? Years of indoctrination and moral pressures surely are the only explanation for such a punitive and masochistic choice.To pretend otherwise is a convenient denial of these women's human rights.

Before anyone accuses me of Islamophobia or racism, I am a member of Amnesty and I fight racism wherever I see it. My view is entirely motivated by my concern for women's rights and the end of religious oppression in all its forms.

As to politicians using women's rights as an excuse for their murderous invasions I couln't agree more. This is despicable.

Abdullah
08 October 2009 at 00:38

From my experience, in a family, it's always the women who encourage the men to be more devout rather than the other way round.

Muslim women have increasingly adopted the hijab in secular muslim countries such as Turkey and Egypt, as well as in the West, because in difficult times we all turn to God. And are these not the most difficult of times? And oh yes.... because Allah works in mysterious ways.

Just Observer
08 October 2009 at 03:58

Daniele - That is an extremely short-sighted view. There is ridiculous amount of western stereotyping around the hijab/niqab. It is not fair to make general assumptions about a different culture and way of life without knowing what it means to individual beliefs. There are lots of well-travelled, well-educated, well-spoken Muslim women especially in the west who choose to wear traditional attire for cultural/personal reasons - I know a number of these women personally and these are not women who need to be rescued from oppression. Yes, there are lots of women living under some very repressive regimes in the middle east who do - but you cannot generalize on the basis of what they wear. When you travel to some of these repressive regimes (which by the way are so powerful because of western patronage), the requirements of the land on what women should wear are oppressive - that definitely needs to be condemned and is a separate issue around women's rights. The west is a free democracy - talking like this about feeling uncomfortable because you do not agree with what others are wearing and supporting an extreme policy like that of the French is a mockery to the democracy you so espouse in your country. Women, muslim or otherwise, irrespective of where they live, should be allowed to choose what they to wear. Period.

poppy
08 October 2009 at 07:59

Clothes, of course, are not just clothes, they are statements of belief and symbols of relationship. Any girl who insisted on going to school naked from the waist up would be sent home. Women trying to gain admission to restaurants would be turned away if they were dressed as for the beach, with their breasts uncovered. Our society has certain views about naked breasts. It also has views about hiding the face, covering the body with a full, flowing garment, and wearing a veil. To pretend that these are not significant issues is either to be ignorant or disingenuous.

The veil is not just a veil. It should not be worn by schoolgirls, teachers, people who meet and serve the public as civil servants, doctors, nurses, I could go on.

As ever, France has more sense than England. Their culture will outlive ours.

mount
08 October 2009 at 10:23

All nonsense. You won't get served in a garage wearing your helmet. Why is that when you might be a follower of the great book?

mount
08 October 2009 at 10:30

... but there's nothing wrong with the hijab..can be quite sexy actually...

IndigoJo
08 October 2009 at 10:35

Tantawi has thrown away whatever authority he might have had with his action. It is one thing to debate the merits of the hijab or niqab, and generally speaking ordinary Muslims will not condemn a scholar for expressing a controversial opinion, but in this case, a "shaikh" has abused his position in an obvious and terrible way and humiliated a teenage girl in the process. He is also a liar, since the covering of the face is definitely approved of as any of the books he will have read when studying to be a "shaikh" will have clearly stated. The general opinion is that he is acting on behalf of the Egyptian government. When I was there in 1999, men told me they were afraid to grow their beards in case the police took them for "fundamentalists" and arrested them; women are free to wear hijab, however.

Matt Smith

http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/

Rob
08 October 2009 at 12:07

I seriously wonder at the sanity of anyone who calls themselves "progressive", or even remotely left wing, who can defend the veil and, especially, the hideous burqa and niqab.

Yes, nuns wore the veil for centuries, and Balkan women may wear lace on their heads. But even most nuns have a choice of what to wear now, and certainly don't cover their entire face and bodies in a balck shroud.

The veil is oppresive and of course its bloody sexist. How many Muslim men wear a veil?! "But its their culture" cry the apologists. So what. In my western liberal culture women are equal to men under the (secular) law. Forced marriages, an obsession with "purity", murdering gays, dressing in black shrouds and walking three paces behind their husband on Oxford Street offends me, and I do not think that tolerating the sodding intolerant is very progressive,

It really isn't difficult. Equality, female emancipation and the casting into the dustbin of history medieval "cultural" practices are things that any progressive should support.

Putting a gloss on the veil, so to speak, leaves the author on the wrong side of every progressive value I can possibly think of

Mehdi Hasan
08 October 2009 at 12:09

Daniele - I don't care whether you're a member of Amnesty or not. Your views on Islam and Muslims are clearly, judging by your blog post, driven by prejudice. What do you mean by referring to Muslims who "choose to live here"? Some of us were born here! And, btw, will you be going round snatching the habits off nuns in the name of "secularism"? Or do you only vilify Muslim customs and traditions?

TheGus
08 October 2009 at 12:48

Once again the debate is polarised, with anybody objecting to any form of Muslim veiling automatically labelled as a racist Islamophobe or – even worse – lumped in with Cohen, Hitchens, Aaronovich and all the other useful idiots of the neo-con faith.

Like a lot of other people, the wearing of the Hijab doesn’t bother me in the slightest: in fact, it’s none of my business. However, there is a massive difference between the Hijab where the face is shown, and the Niqab and Burka, where it is not. These two forms I do object to, not because I’m interested in telling women what to wear, not because I have a problem with Islam, and not because I believe it’s my duty to fight what some see as a symbol of female oppression, but because it’s impossible to have any sense of fellow feeling with a person when you can’t see their face.

How on earth are we meant to function as a society and rub along peacefully with each other if one of the primary means of human communication – the face – is obscured away? It’s bizarre, it’s alienating, and it’s an affront.

I’m not alone in thinking this and I think it’s a cheap shot to say that everybody else who feels the same is secretly motivated by a hatred of Islam or base racism. Some obviously are, but I think there are some more fundamental issues at stake here regarding our common humanity and what it takes to live together in a society that need to be acknowledged.

Sheila
08 October 2009 at 16:39

I live in Toronto where women wearing hijabs are very common and seen as a form of personal choice along with many other forms of religious and cultural expression. However, burkas are another matter to me for a reason that I have not seen discussed much. I am deaf and depend on lipreading. I know that burkas muffle sound and render the wearer into a state of hearing impairement but they also prevent any form of communication with anyone who is deaf and extends the slience and isolation on to others.

Sheila
08 October 2009 at 16:39

I live in Toronto where women wearing hijabs are very common and seen as a form of personal choice along with many other forms of religious and cultural expression. However, burkas are another matter to me for a reason that I have not seen discussed much. I am deaf and depend on lipreading. I know that burkas muffle sound and render the wearer into a state of hearing impairement but they also prevent any form of communication with anyone who is deaf and extends the slience and isolation on to others.

Daniele
08 October 2009 at 17:32

Medhi,

I am very disappointed by your very unfair response to my comment, as I always agree with what you write and always express my support for your views.

I am very sorry if you think I am prejudiced but I know that I am not. It is a shame that no one can discuss any issue relating to Islam without being called a racist and an Islamophobe ( It reminds me of the problem with criticising Israel and being immediately called anti-semite).

I just hate every form of religious fanaticism and oppression and yes I would love to persuade Catholic nuns to abandon their mediaeval attire if I could. But even nuns do not hide their faces so it is not such a problem for other people. And yes I am not afraid to say that I intensely dislike the Taliban but I equally dislike the American Evangelists who poison American society. See? no prejudice there.

Of course Muslim people, born here or not born here, have absolutely every right to live in Europe. My point was (maybe badly expressed) that if I was a very religious Christian or Muslim or other religion, I would probably want to move to another country which would be more suitable for my religious way of life.I just do not understand what they can possibly like about living in this very secular society which must appear so deprived to them.

I did not mean to be offensive there and I apologise if it sounded like that.

Just Observer
08 October 2009 at 22:42

"My point was (maybe badly expressed) that if I was a very religious Christian or Muslim or other religion, I would probably want to move to another country which would be more suitable for my religious way of life." - there is nothing secular in that view. The point of being a secular country is that you allow people of all religions, cultures, traditions and beliefs peacefully co-exist. You live and let live. Arguments like yours weakens the case that all is fair and secular in the west. What then is the difference between living in a barbaric regime as compared to the west for these women?? Its just a different kind of torture, albeit not physical. Join the international 'I hate the muslim woman' contest. Im sure you will win.

Daniele
09 October 2009 at 00:41

I would say it is people like you (Just Observer) who couldn't care less about Muslim women's rights. The argument that you let a group of people be oppressed and badly treated because "it is their culture" and you must close your eyes to the abuse received in the name of multiculturalism is in fact racist. "It is ok for them, they don't mind and anyway it is none of our business , individual freedom, bla bla bla..." This is why the cries for help of young women being sent away in a forced marriage have been ignored for so long in this country.In the name of culture and so-called respect for religion. It makes me very angry.

As to your accusation that I hate Muslim women it is too ludicrous and paranoid to deserve a response.

If you want to go after real racists go after the BNP not human right activists like me.

Just Observer
09 October 2009 at 01:13

What you say is my argument is not my argument at all. We are not talking about young women being sent away in a forced marriage here, we are talking about your perception that people who wear the hijab/niqab are those who definitely will end up being sent away in a forced marriage - there is a big difference. The first is a human rights problem, the second is western stereotyping of all muslim women. Read my earlier post. If human rights activists dont understand this difference, that in my humble opinion is a big tragedy.

Daniele
09 October 2009 at 13:14

Thank God , my "hate of Muslim women" has been downgraded to stereotyping, what a relief!

But it is not even stereotyping since I am not talking about Muslim women in general. I thought the discussion was about the wearing of the full veil or niqab and my comments refer mainly to that extreme clothing practice.Surely I have the right to comment about this without being called names and be accused of hate crimes.

One last point: who says that because this society is secular, it has to tolerate the intolerant and the intolerable? There has to be some limits to what is acceptable even in a tolerant society. Surely the state must step in when abuse is being committed in the name of a religion or other.This is when "freedom from" must take precedence over "freedom to".Can anyone possibly disagree with that?

Just Observer
09 October 2009 at 15:03

"who says that because this society is secular, it has to tolerate the intolerant and the intolerable? There has to be some limits to what is acceptable even in a tolerant society. Surely the state must step in when abuse is being committed in the name of a religion or other."

You are still not getting my point, are you? Just because someone is wearing the hijab/niqab doesnt make them intolerant or what is done unto them intolerable. 'All' women who wear the hijab/niqab do not need to be 'saved' - that is a wrong battle to be fought. I stick to my opinion that what France has done represents misogyny, not unlike what repressive regimes do. Women's rights get abused in all countries irrespective of their religion, culture, what they wear - more so in some countries than others. A true human rights activist will fight the wrong-doers, not fight for laws about clothing which has very little to do with the wrong-doing. With that, I rest my case. Im sure people who read the thread will understand the merits of it.

poppy
09 October 2009 at 15:19

Well, Just Observer, you've had a lot of goes at this and you sign off saying that people who read the thread will see the merits of your case. This reader sees no merit in it. You're just wrong.

Mehdi Hasan
09 October 2009 at 21:53

Daniele - I'm sorry if my response disappointed you and I was perhaps too worked up but I'm glad to hear you often support what I write and agree with me. I'm also glad that you apologized for any offence caused and really appreciate that, and am glad to hear that you're consistent vis a vis Catholic nuns and their habits. We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Btw, do you think the hijab is oppression or just the niqab?

Daniele
09 October 2009 at 23:49

Medhi,

Thanks for your last message.

no my comments were about the niqab/burka being a symbol of oppression. I still do not understand why most Muslim women choose to wear the hijab as it is physically restrictive and many Muslims insist that it is not even required by the religion. It is also shocking to me to see little girls forced to wear it. Surely , as children they do not choose to wear it. Some time ago, the French government made it illegal for children to wear it at school.There was a great furore at first. But in fact there was little fuss in the end and at least women wear the hijab when they truly choose to do so as adults. By the way in French schools pupils are not allowed to wear other religious symbols either as it is seen as divisive. I know this approach to public life is very difficult to understand in this country but it seems to work.

Yes we 'll probably have to agree to disagree on that one but be assured that I entirely support your political comments.I am a socialist but, as you must have gathered, I am also a feminist and an atheist. What I am definitely not, is a racist!

Marilyn
11 October 2009 at 18:43

I have been called a racist myself because I said in a union meeting that the Qur'an does not require women to wear the veil. I was told by two white non Muslim men that as I am not a Muslim, I had no right to comment.

Wearing the veil is not a lifestyle choice. It is worn as a visible declaration of faith and attitude. Having worn overt religious dress in my youth, I understand how it can create a barrier and make a statement.

I feel very uncomfortable with the apparent increase in all forms of veil wearing by western Muslim women. What does it signify?

TJ_Lives
12 October 2009 at 17:08

Daniele is absolutely right- there need to be limits as to what a "tolerant" society will tolerate. Once people realise this, many problems regarding "traditions" and the problems they can cause will be solved.

150 years ago it was "tradition" for slavery to be legal in the southern US and for the British and French to carve up foreign continents under the guise of "civilising" the natives. I wonder if anybody would stand up against such notions these days? Judging by Russia's recent treatment of Georgia and the decided lack of resolve shown by virtually every European leader on very many similar issues I would guess not.

Seano
12 October 2009 at 17:29

I would hope that in a free country you can wear what you want. Obviously you're not allowed to wear guns or bomb belts, so there is a security argument for bans on veils in certain areas.

However, the feminist argument requires that this admittedly dehumanising garment be banned because there may be some coercion involved in its adoption, whether cultural or direct. This would be a dangerous area for a government to get into, as it is the banning of an idea or symbol-in effect, thought policing.

mount
13 October 2009 at 21:12

Here's the thing - what's the difference between a bikini and a veil?

Navyaa
14 October 2009 at 01:39

For all you people who want to control what women wear, please read 'When Atheism Becomes Religion: America's New Fundamentalists’ by Chris Hedges..these fundamentalists are becoming more rampant in everyday life than the religious fundamentalists who are hidden in the mountains. In my eyes, both are opposite sides of the same coin - misogyny

EU22
16 October 2009 at 18:52

I can remember before the black Islamic headscarf really took over here in the UK - I happened to visit an Islamic website - which had a notice - (i wonder if anyone else remembers) - which said - Muslim women don't have to wear these clothes [all black] - but by wearing them they could show their objection to western society or culture??

This is probably the wrong place to say something that not politically correct.

But I think that the black headscarf is a protest - or political Islam.

And so does Turkey - that is why the innocent headscarf - as the writer would like us to think - is banned from schools and municipal buildings - because they know Islam is not only religious - it is political.

The way our grandmothers wore the headscarf is not deemed political Islam - in Turkey [years ago], like women across Eastern Europe and Russia wear theirs.

But the way that Muslim women tie their scarves around the neck is - considered political Islam - maybe the writer should try and be more honest! [Or maybe he doesn't know the difference himself]

It is not Islamophobic or hateful to object to political Islam.

I have been to the Islamic world - the politically correct version of Islam is a falsehood.

lovesconceptofgod
17 October 2009 at 07:53

To wear a veil or not is a personal choice for a woman or for that matter, a man! It would be interesting to see the reactions if a man wore lace over HIS face. He probably would be accused of corrupting kids in some contries and he would be executed for his apparant perversionof childred. Go figure. So this is not an issue of wearing a veil, it is what the societal norm is at the place and time of the event being judged. Although I love the idea of God, and go to various places of worship trying to really find a credible God, but the more I study religious thinking, the more I tend to say there is so many wrong reasons to follow a given religion. We live in a very dangerous world and perhaps in 100 years or less we might blow ourselves up with only lower species left. But the ants and beetles that live after a nuclear winter, wont worry about wearing a veil or deciding what is the right religion for them, they will be too busy eating the rotting human bodies glowing from radiation! It will take too long for mankind to get truly advanced where we dont worry about covering women up because males can't control themselves-we will have perished as a species long before that, unfortunately.

Afshan
17 October 2009 at 12:16

I have recently taken to wearing the Hijab....I am not overtly religious but have started studying Islam. I live in the UK, am happily married and have two beautiful children. I am NOT oppressed by my husband, family or city/town where I live. I was born and brought up in the UK. It was my choice and am so glad that I alone made this choice. I did for myself and to be closer to my God. If anyone has a problem with this then go figure.

Daniele
19 October 2009 at 17:14

Afshan-I am glad that you have chosen to wear the hijab and that no-one forced you to. You still haven't explained why you chose to wear it and why it would make you feel "closer to God". How come men do not need to wear a piece of cloth over their heads to feel "closer to God"? I am still puzzled by the whole thing. How about women in Saudi Arabia and Koweit and the like? Do they choose to wear the veil? No ! Lucky you!

Navyaa_ First of all I am a woman so I can't be accused of misogyny unless we are talking about self-hate.Second, how can you accuse atheists of being misogynists when all they want is to free women of their religious chains. That makes no sense at all!

As to atheists being called "fundamentalists" and atheism being called a religion, this is stretching the vocabulary to its limits and again this is turning logic and rationality upside down! How, HOW can you call atheists "evangelical" or "fundamentalist" when precisely we believe in NOTHING! This really annoys me and it is a totally crap idea imported from the US which sounds cool but makes NO SENSE! People who use this vocabulary are trying to put us in the same bag as fanatic religious nutters while we are precisely the opposite using rational arguments, not believing in fairy stories and not wanting to kill anybody.

Or is it that Christians have been shoving their religion down everybody's throat for centuries and now some people dare proclaim their atheism and well! you don't like the competition! At least we won't burn anybody for not being atheists! We only denounces the stupidity of religion.

Navyaa
20 October 2009 at 03:09

Well, there are those who call believers stupid and want them to convert. And then there are those who call non-believers stupid and want them to convert.

Its the same category really - people who want to impose their views upon rest of the world because they think they are right! and in the process, dictate what those poor women should/should not do.

Im happy to say I dont belong to either category - I dont really care if the other person believes or not (I respect their right to do either). I dont interfere or meddle with other people's beliefs and I hope that they dont interfere or meddle with mine.

truth seeker
21 October 2009 at 11:53

Spot on IndigoJo

for those who donot know Azhar has lost it is reputation long ago. it is now viewed as an agent for the egyptian goverment.

mohamed yusoff
25 October 2009 at 09:15

As a male, I prefer to talk to a girl who looks like a girl, and not like a robot, if she's covered. Anyway, a piece of cloth does not a muslim make. Enough said.

DrReason
28 October 2009 at 11:48

Interesting that people base their opinions on the over-romanticized assumption that secular values adhere to freedom no matter what your religion, race, or gender, as well as the superficial claim that under secularism men and women are equal considering issues such as the wage packets earned between the genders for the same hours and jobs weigh in favour of the men. Also, I don't see anyone on a global level giving as much attention or condemnation of the porn industry which feeds the economy to such a degree that politicians and the like are happy to get the taxes from it. If we were all fair or honest here and showed any sign of having overcome ignorance through research we would objectively conclude that according to Islam a woman is not required to wear the face veil, but has the option of doing so - yet she is to remove the face veil when performing certain rites of pilgrimage to Mecca for the Hajj. Therefore, we see there are exceptions to the rule; where necessary (eg, security, teaching, communicating with the deaf etc) removal of the face veil is not really problematic in Islam. However, there is an undeniable hypocrisy amongst those that champion 'freedom to choose' who based on their own opinions see fit to take another's 'freedom of choice' away whether under the guise of racism or ignorance. Hijab and veil symbols of oppression? Yes, if they are 'forced' upon a woman by 'oppressive' men. No, if it is a woman's own choosing according to her belief and respect for what she regards God's command, and if she feels that this piece if cloth gives her enough if not more self-confidence without having to feed millions of dollars to the fashion/cosmetic industry in order to make herself feel like a 'woman' outside of her home. A recent survey showed that up to 80% of the women in the West are unhappy with the way they look - food for thought indeed. It's also interesting to note that Islamophobia seems to have increased and been given more media coverage in light of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq - could it be that this is part of keeping public opinion on the side of the war effort in 'liberating' the people of those lands? I wonder how we would feel if the Muslims had the military might of the US and Britain and launched the same type of offensive on us killing thousands of innocents in the name of freeing us from the ills of teen pregnancies, adultery, high rates of street crime, prostitution etc etc - the answer would probably be 'We can handle our own problems thank you very much'. Oh and please don't say 'We're fighting them so that they don't gain military might' - that's no different to saying it's good to have nuclear weapons or even nuke them in order to save ourselves from some phantom/ghost army standing at our borders wielding WMD's (which were never found btw). Learn to think for yourselves rather than let the likes of war, Anjem Choudry, or Griffins do your thinking for you.

Toby Geralds
28 October 2009 at 12:29

Daniele writes: "...What is meant by freely? Years of indoctrination and moral pressures surely are the only explanation for such a punitive and masochistic choice.To pretend otherwise is a convenient denial of these women's human rights."

See, many Muslims would use the very same argument above to argue that the women of the pornographic industry who agree to be sex slaves for a 4-5 hour video shoot and allow three men to penetrate her at the same time are not making a genuinely "free" choice either. In fact, the same argument could be made for the women who wear mini-skirts on a chilly Saturday evening (while their boyfriends/husbands wear pants and a jacket) and a whole number of other practices and values disguised under "western culture."

Daniele-- if you were given a choice between wearing a veil or having sex with three men at the same time and having it made into a DVD, which one would you choose? IF you chose a veil (which I wouldn't expect you to admit publically, not after all the ranting you've done on here), then surely you should champion "freedom to" in the case of the veil and lean more heavily towards "freedom from" in the case of choosing to be a porn slave. IF on the other hand you would choose to sell your body and humanity and have three men treat you worse than a dog, then quite frankly I don't think any Muslim should give your opinion on the veil any moral weight at all.

The people who silently agree to or support the porn industry, plus the western governments that have assumed the role of pimps by collecting tax revenues from the prostitutes who work in these films, have absolutely no moral standing to tell Muslims how Islam can become more moral and humane. Frankly, if a pimp came knocking on my door complaining to me that I should treat my wife better, I'd tell him to flush himself down the toilet.

Cheers.

anotherobserver
15 November 2009 at 18:41

as a muslim woman, i must say that i am utterly disgusted with some people's approach to the wearing of hijab and niqab, but i think it comes down to whether we know what the very definition of hijab actually is- which i would presume many may not. the word hijab does not necessarily mean headscarf or veil as many may put it. it means in the arabic language 'barrier'. it is believed in islam that even men have a hijab as well as women, that is certain parts of the body that they have to cover in regards to the dress code.. As well God has a hijab which is a veil of light that if removed would destroy HIs creation. so in reality it is not a politcal issue as many such as british leaders and french president sarkozy have turned it around to be, it is a matter of religion rather. i have never in the media seen so much scrutiny on a piece of clothing or action that is a basic requirement of a religon other than islam. what right has any politician to comment on a clothing that as muslims we believe God told us in the quran to wear?

many may not have an issue with the hijab, but with the niqab which may seem like 'crossing a line a bit'. i actually don't wear the niqab but i know a few sisters that do, and if u ask me they don't sound oppressed or any of the other ignorant sterotypes that have been attributed to it. they are just as normal as any woman, they have fears as well as dreams to pursue, they have a social life, many work, many DRIVE. the niqab is a personal choice for them and i do not believe anyone who does not wish to see past their own fears should incriminate based on that.

we need to build bridges of understanding and knowledge, otherwise we shouldn't comment.

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