The Faith Column

36 comments from readers

ZL
19 August 2008 at 12:35

You mentioned the peaceful demonstration of 10,000 Falun Gong practitioners on 25 Apr 1999..... I would argue it wasn't even a demonstration. The 10,000 or so gathered were actually there to submit a petition to the Central petition office located on Fuyou street, next to Zhongnannhai. The petition was triggered by the arrest of hundreds of practitioners in Tianjin 2 days ago.

FalunGongInfo
19 August 2008 at 18:54

This article reads as if it came from the Falun Dafa Public affairs office itself.

Falun Gong, now called Falun Dafa, was a spin-off group from the now defunct Jhong Gong, a large Chi-gong school in china. All of Chi-gong became popular as a means to keep healthy and ward off sicknesses in 1996 when the Chinese communist health system collapsed, leaving only the wealthy any access at all to modern medicine.

Mr. Li became popular mostly through his charismatic personality, use of local superstition, and his claims of spiritual mastery and mystical feats.

In 1999 a popular Chinese magazine wrote an article praising Mr. Li and his Falun Gong School. The same magazine then was to present a counter article to the claims of Mr. Li and that is when the trouble started. Many of the Falun Gong followers made threats of death and violence towards the magazine editors, and when they where arrested the leaders of Falun Gong mislead the believers as to why the communist arrested the followers and thus the protest occurred.

The Chinese communist then banned all chi-gong schools, not just Falun Gong. It is in most educated folks opinion that the communist government in china over reacted, just as how the US over-reacted to the Fundamentalist Mormon sect in Texas.

Since 1999 Falun Gong members have made a lot of claims of persecution, torture and wrongful imprisonment. These claims however are not supported by the US State Department, nor verified by any independent media. Furthermore, photographic evidence presented as torture has been mostly debunked as accident photos and photos of cancer patients. The claims of organ removal also has been debunked.

More info about Falun Gong and its strange and bizarre past can be found here:

http://exposingthefalungong.org/

Douglas Chalmers
19 August 2008 at 19:40

Uhh, as much as I agree about the value of spiritual practices of what is essentially a form of traditional Chinese Daoist Qi Gong and Budhism, something else happened to FalunDafa (the main body of which FalunGong is/are the practices) and particularly in the West.

Having watched their website http://falundafa.org/ for some years, it has changed remarkably and is now a very slick marketing version of what was once a community-based friendly site of some 4,000 pages with a very popular blog forum. Stories of aliens were as much the basis of FalunDafa as they were of the Raliens.

That is to say that it has been intentionally usurped as an organization and the site now merely talks at you instead of to you and is squeaky-clean in its image. It is there only as a front now and only to convince the people in the West that it is still somehow genuine. Its headquarters is now concealed.

Additionally, it is linked with the Epoch Times http://en.epochtimes.com/ which is another organization now dedicated to attacking China politically in the media instead of building friendly genuine cultural relations. That is why Falun Dafa has been banned in China.

Sadly, it has gone the same way as the Tibetan Buddhist movement in the West and, although both have many good spiritual people, they have been fooled into accepting their organizations being taken over at the top and misuded for covert political reasons. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOhDBo6x2ZY

It is known that the separatist Tibetan government-in-exile which is run by their spiritual head has long been associated with the CIA in the USA and that can only be assumed for FalunDafa as well as they now follow a similar agenda in attacking China instead of focussing on spirituality. Both only use Buddhism to their own ends.

Thus the age-old Chinese concepts of "Truthfulness, Benevolence, and Forbearance" have been put to use as a weapon for use by US regimes to attack China. One would also wonder at why FalunDafa is supposedly based in Texas which is also the home of Bush and Cheney as well as pastor John Hagee's Christian Zionists and other rabid pro-USA usurped Christian religions?

There are many Chinese people now living in the West who are good members of FalunDafa but many of them have had many sad experiences in the past in China. That is not so unusual given the turmoil and upheaval that China has been through in the past cetury and a half.

Many of the generations who experienced the cultural revolution and earlier episodes have emotional scars and deserve sympathy. Still, that is the past and China is changing as quickly for the better as much as the USA has been changing for the worse since 9/11. Covering up the truth about what is actually happening to America by finger-pointing is an essential factor in smearing China now.

MarBo
19 August 2008 at 20:53

Never mind the conspiracy theories guys. Your way off track with that.

I believe Lemish's spiel is the real version of the facts. Too bad that this honest explanation has been distorted over the years to benefit Beijing and make the perpetrators look like they are the innocent lamb. We all know in the West what the Beijing propaganda machine is capable of.

And lately they pay bloggers 5 Maos every time they write something in favour of the party on their blogs. Go figure.

gifted01
19 August 2008 at 21:11

The second and third comments seem to be well written anti-Falun Gong propoganda. So to that end I will not get involved in a tit for tat argument about what they said and how ludircrously wrong they are.

The CCP has an army of internet bloggers that attack Falun Gong articles of any kind and its no surprise that I see them here. Actually they attack any anti-CCP stories.

I would encourage any readers to keep reminding themselves of some simple facts - Falun Gong practitioners are being tortured to death and in some cases they are having their organs harvested. Whatever they believe, they have the right to practice their beliefs without this kind of treatment. That is the main issue.

tigress013
19 August 2008 at 21:18

The main reason Falun Gong is reviled is quite simple. If you read the book, much of what Li Hongzi puts forth is quite Buddhist and therefore benign, it is the lunatic information he claims as truth that makes one question the validity of any of it.

As a martial artist, I do not trust anyone that says this came from my masters and then is ashamed or whatever to claim his masters. That has not been a practice since the 60's.

As a person that uses her critical thinking skills, I WILL not trust anyone that lies about his background, education or abilities. If lies is too strong a word, then hides or obstructs.

I also find it bizarre that anyone would follow a person that believes he caused harm/death to anyone regardless of the motivations. This statement is based on the Zhan Falun story of a rival practitioner that cause Mr. Li some problems and he injured him with his psychic powers, and then claims to have killed him with these powers later on. Mr. Li also clearly states he is a god and can save practitioners. In one of his lecture series he also states he can not care about the non-dafa types. So as a benevolent god he is lacking a basic qualification.

Falun Gong caused a schizm within a relationship of mine and unfortunately was a small part in the ending of that relationship. The truthfulness, compassion and benevolence was sorely lacking in the relationship, due to the fact I would ask for intelligent debate on the topic. But, practitioners run from questions that can't be answered by Zhan Falun. But, my significant other could spend lots of time at rallies, etc trying to tell american politicians and innocent bystanders how wrong the chinese government is. Mind you, many practitioners using good ole american independence and justice to call for the Chinese government to change DON'T even vote in America.

I advise anyone willing to walk off this deep end to consider the impact on your life HERE AND NOW. I believe there is something after death, but I will not relinquish living my life to attain a rebirth or a multitude of heavens.

At least if you become Islamic that religion/belief/what-have-you stands the test of time as far as legitimizing a system goes.

You will find this particular system on cult watch lists for many good reasons, supporting this system is foolish at best and dangerous at worst.

JRC
19 August 2008 at 21:24

“Falungonginfo” it is obvious you are not deceived by the communist regime, but deceivingly want to spread fallacies against this organization for some hidden motive, or for the ignorant understanding that Falun Gong is some how against the Chinese people and the country of China itself, and not just the regime who is solely responsible for the black stain on China’s reputation as the worst human rights defender in the world.

Every single “fact” in your comments are completely wrong, but I am sure you know this already. Your claims that the UN and the State Dept do not support torture claims by Falun Gong are also absolutely incorrect.

The government of China violates the human rights of Falun Gong practitioners. About that there is no doubt. In 2006 the United Nation Special Rapporteur on Torture reported that the Falun Gong represents 66% of the victims of alleged torture in China, six times larger than the next leading group targeted by the regime. A past UN report states: “The Special Rapporteur continues to be alarmed by deaths in custody in China. Reports describe harrowing scenes in which detainees, many of whom are followers of the Falun Gong movement, die as a result of severe ill treatment, neglect or medical attention. The cruelty and brutality of these alleged acts of torture defy description.”

Today as hundreds of thousands of innocent Chinese citizens, human rights defenders, lawyers and spiritual believers are being jailed, tortured or killed by the Communist Party of China, the Communist Party of China calls anyone who attempts to help these people as “anti China,” “against the Chinese people” or “Political.”

For over 60 years the Communist Party of China, in order to protect themselves, has instilled into the Chinese mind through mass propaganda and fear of violence the notion that anyone who criticizes the Chinese communist party is attacking China and against the Chinese people.

This has created a wave of hyper patriotic Chinese who have stepped forward and rallied to deny that the abuses of their country people is actually happening as they condemn those human rights defenders who speak up to protect those suffering. These misguided people are in turn protecting the criminal and allowing these atrocities to continue against their own people.

The CCP is not China and does not represent the Chinese people. The Communist Party of China rules China through repression, having killed since its inception tens of millions to achieve and maintain power. The Communist Party of China, to justify its brutal hold on power, does what communist parties have done everywhere - propagandize, disinform, distort, evade and fabricate. It admits nothing and denies everything.

The Falun Gong, in contrast, harm no one. Falun Gong has been practiced around the world since 1994 without incident. Only in China where all media is blocked and no independent investigations are allowed are so called “Falun Gong crimes” happening. If these crimes are indeed true then why does the regime deny all investigations into these alleged crimes? Why has there been no reports of these so called Falun Gong crimes happened any where else in the world?

The Chinese regime’s labeling of the Falun Gong as an evil cult is a component of the repression of the Falun Gong, which has dehumanized Falun Gong in the eyes of many Chinese who then turn their backs on the cries of Falun Gong practitioners who are being killed en mass in China today because they truly believe they deserve it.

Your attempt to spread fallacies against Falun Gong strikes me as misplaced. Hate propagandists live in a self contained world of delusive paranoia where the vilified group is the enemy and they are the defenders of virtue.

The allegation that you are trying to bring up against Falun Gong is so far removed from reality and so closely identified to the Chinese regime’s actions to persecute the Falun Gong, that it sounds to me like you are confirming the Chinese regime’s is right to kill and torture the Falun Gong for their beliefs.

gifted01
19 August 2008 at 21:30

Dear Tigress013, I would advise you to read Zhuan Falun (notice the correct spelling) again. What you say here is not true and anyone who read the book would know this.You say that Falun Gong is reviled - are you suggesting that the persecution is justified? The rest of your comments are rambling - what has American independence got to do with the issue or Islam for that matter?

John_A
19 August 2008 at 21:58

I find Lemish's analysis sound as a China historian and more or less consistent with the work of the scholars of Chinese history and religion in my field. Their work should be consulted, and trusted, before that of anonymous posters (myself included), however committed they may be to their claims or agendas. The two best sources to turn to at this point are Prof. David Ownby's "Falun Gong and the Future of China" (Oxford University Press, 2008) and Prof. Berend ter Haar's online analysis, found at http://website.leidenuniv.nl/~haarbjter/falun.htm. After their scholarship work on the subject, regrettably, quickly tails off in terms of quality (Maria Hsia Chang, for instance, is neither a historian nor scholar of religion, and proves to be ill-equipped theoretically to handle the subject). The Falun Dafa Information Center's website (www.faluninfo.net), while certainly written from an invested standpoint, does gather a wealth of sources, many third-party, and respond in some detail to various PRC accusations, including some of those leveled in posts above, and thus can be recommended.

MSB
19 August 2008 at 22:59

See if you can guess which of these bloggers is paid 50 cents a post to manipulate public opinion against Falun Gong? It can be quite lucrative to spend a few hours going to all the sites that expose the truth about, say the organ harvesting atrocity or any other site that has positive things to say about Falun Gong to wrrite misleading information aimed at confusing people. Please see below:

7/16/2008

China's 50-cent-a-piece propagandists

For the Chinese authorities, anything goes when it comes to controlling Web 2.0 - and that includes bribing the public into posting propaganda for 50 cents, says Hong Kong blogger Oiwan Lam.

Oiwan Lam is known for stirring up trouble with the super strict Hong Kong internet regulators. She became renowned on the blogosphere after facing charges for linking one of her posts to a nude Renaissance painting last year. In this amateur video, she talks to journalist and blogger Thomas Crampton about the Chinese government's latest scheme to control "alternative content" on the net. She says that writing a pro-government comment on an online debate will get you a reward of 50 cents (5 euro cents), which, if you have enough time on your hands, could amount to a second income.

It’s more about manipulation than censorship"

Thomas Crampton is a journalist in China. He is currently based in Hong Kong. He writes the blog "Thomas Crampton - China, internet and new media seen from Asia".

These suspicious blog messages were first noticed around the time when the Olympic torch arrived in China. Very nationalist and pro-government comments starting appearing in numerous online debates that were critical in some way.

It's well known that university students in China, who are paid very little in their first few years, work as "50-cent-ers". They're a bit like our version of interns!

That said, you have to draw a line between them and the professionals. The scheme is more about manipulation than censorship. The "Fifty Cent Party" is manipulating public opinion through undercover intervention. The real censors, working for the government, are strictly controlling information. They are the ones who track down dissident sites and alert authorities to the use of "subversive" terms like Falun Gong (a spritual movement banned by the Chinese government)."

http://observers.france24.com/en/content/20080716-china-onli... ol-army-censorship

longtrekhome
20 August 2008 at 02:39

Prior to this article, I hadn't seen the "why is Falun Gong persecuted" arguments presented in such a simple, straightforward manner, or all together in one place. Thank you, Leeshai, for that.

I have a fourth explanation to propose, perhaps as a corollary to "the predatory Party-state explanation." It's something is obvious (as is the above explanation) to older-generation Poles, who experienced the functioning of a communist state firsthand.

In order for the Chinese regime to maintain power, it needs to strike fear into the hearts of the nation's citizens -- or at least create a sense that it is impossible to change anything, as the regime is all-knowing and all-powerful, eliminating dissent in a flash. It has been argued that after decades of "struggle of the proletariat" with an estimated 80 million needless casualties, the Chinese nation now suffers from a sort of collective Stockholm syndrome.

Yet Falun Gong inspired in its practitioners a certain sort of inner strength -- something certainly apparent among the many Falun Gong practitioners I have met over the years. The high death toll in the labor camps is not from the regime's desire to physically 'eradicate' (as Jiang Zemin put it) the group's members, but because many would simply not give up their faith, even under the ultimate duress.

I bet that while infiltrating the thousands of Falun Gong practice sites that sprung up across the Chinese mainland in the late 90's, Jiang's spies took note of how once broken or ill people were becoming strong in body and spirit. The historical record shows that even prior to '99, there were many smaller scale persecutions launched at the county and provincial levels -- perhaps to test the effect.

And Falun Gong practitioners came, in groups of various sizes, to appeal to the authorities to release their incarcerated friends, or very publicly appealed against police brutality when their fellows were beaten, their homes invaded, or their books destroyed.

Falun Gong practitioners, I would argue, while never intending to, in response to these 'trial persecutions' created an incipient, independent civil society -- simply due to the newfound strength of character they were developing in their discipline.

In this, I suspect, Jiang and the communist hardliners saw their own eventual demise. It is exactly these sorts of people that every totalitarian regime in the world seeks to get out of the way.

Because these sorts of people are the ones that will not subjugate themselves to 'the will of the state' when wronged, and wronged they will be at one point or another by such a state.

In the mass grassroots movement of Falun Gong, attracting millions, with no central organization and spread by word of mouth, its adherents with a penchant for justice, the communist leaders saw an end to their power, I believe. And they responded the only way a communist regime knows how.

As for some of the previous posts trying to take this discussion off-topic -- don't insult my intelligence. The fact that there is a brutal persecution against Falun Gong has been taking place for the past 9 years is indisputable fact. Even casual research among reputable sources (UN, Amnesty, HRW, ISHR, who I happen to work for, and the State Department, for that matter) attests to that. That many Falun Gong practitioners have been killed in Chinese state custody is also indisputable fact. The discussions are around how many were killed, where, and was it done for profit.

In my own experience with Falun Gong (I used the discipline to heal myself from a neurological disease that Western doctors told me was 'incurable'), nobody ever asked me for money, tried to tell me that I should follow somebody else's orders, or inculcate me with some blind belief. I've seen many come, and many others go. The 'cult' assertion is frankly ridiculous -- a Chinese communist party propaganda tactic to demonize the practice in society at large. It's been much to effective, but that then is the insidious nature of hate propaganda.

As for the 'tool of US imperialism, so it's banned in China' hypothesis... you need to look back at the timeline, Douglas. For the first several years of brutal, gut-wrenching persecution, the prevailing wisdom among practitioners was that the government had made a colossal mistake, and they were appealing for the government to stop -- while a tthe same time exposing the atrocities via leaflets, etc. It took years for the idea that the nature of communism itself was the problem, that the regime itself was rotten to the core, to gain sway.

Douglas Chalmers
20 August 2008 at 10:54

Quote longtrekhome: "...for the 'tool of US imperialism..... you need to look back at the timeline..... the prevailing wisdom among practitioners was that the government had made a colossal mistake..... It took years for the idea that the nature of communism itself was the problem, that the regime itself was rotten to the core, to gain sway..."

Oh, really, as regards "a tool of US imperialism", such issues can go back to the 1940's and the CIA in Tibet (see the video clip I posted near the top). The Americans (along with Britain) have been playing a game with China ever since before 1898 and their occupation of the Philippines which gave them a base in the Western Pacific to back up their gunboat diplomacy in China and in Japan.

But the persecution of people in China is perhaps a "timeline" more related to the Tiananmen Square incident and Deng as the last of the old Long March brigade of dyed-in-the-wool communists. If there is one thing that can be said about the succeeding president Jiang Ze Min, he did manage his succession without any overt disruption and also handing power to his successor, Hu Jin Tao.

Perhaps we should be reading those times a little more carefully and asking whether Tiananmen and the banning of FalunDafa were pivotal in changing the hearts and minds of the CCP leadership and putting an end to the Maoist era for good? Obviously, neither did anything to endear the party's leaders to the people generally. Thus, their suffering was not for nothing and may have achieved a great deal.

Given the concurrent disruption of changing back to a capitalist regime, it seems that the CCP are ever more concerned about the emerging inrequality of the haves and the have-nots and the potential for chaotic political disruption in future. Although Hu and co are trying their best, not veryone is happy. In that way, China is more like the USA in the 1930's and the uncomfortable transformation from the era of "the big wheel" to the post-depression "new deal".

jjyz
20 August 2008 at 12:43

Just a quick note to tigress, hoping she checks back here. I've practiced Falun Gong for close to four years, this is definitely a philosophy of immanence. Dafa is practiced in this world, here and now, and it deals with the things that people come across in their lives. Practitioners feel the energy mechanisms developed through cultivation practice, in their bodies. There's no proving it out to a third party through objective processes, this is a different kind of science. If you can understand the books and practice them then you will start to feel things, and you'll know what is happening. Externally, people who practice Falun Gong carry on in the same way as everyone else. It makes no difference on the surface. You just read the books, do the exercises, and behave in an upright way. I’m more friendly, and I don’t do drugs or drink anymore. I don't get how anyone thinks there's something to oppose here, even if you've read Zhuan Falun and don't think it's true. There's nothing that's bad for anyone, people just take it or leave it.

PS: I think the falundafa.org and faluninfo.net websites are looking great and very professional. This shows that those practitioners are dedicated. It's just like with doing flyers, we used to do them in word, but now started doing them in InDesign. I spent four hundred bucks on a student edition of the program. Now they look much better! That comes from my wish to do something good, to stop a persecution, to stand on the side of justice. I want to help people understand better, so if we can make more eye-catching and professional looking flyers, so much the better. Master Li stipulates that practitioners can't accept money for things related to Dafa though, so even if some fat cat wanted to give me money for a new computer I would turn him down. I've never heard of any "headquarters", "marketing" or concealing anything. I'm as involved in Falun Gong as you can get and I'll answer any question you want. What you see is what you get. We just get together and make decisions on a local level through discussion. In New York I guess they had that imperative to set up the websites to represent everyone. Someone had to do it, or anyone could just say what they want and pretend they represent Falun Gong, as a teaching or group.

By the way, the falungonginfo poster is either Samuel Lau or Thomas Brown, long time anti-Falun Gong activists from San Francisco. They were banned from editing the Falun Gong articles on wikipedia some time ago for their antics and “ideological struggle”, as coincidence would have it.

Ron
21 August 2008 at 07:16

I'm no Communist but I recognise the advances made in China by the CCP. Religion is a curse wherever it tries to assert itself as a mover politically. GIven China's history with such religio-millenarian movements I'd support their clampdown on FalunDafa.

MarkPaul
22 August 2008 at 05:33

Hi Ron. Sure, the CCP has made some economic advances, however the jury is still out on the environmental and moral cost of those advances.

Falun Dafa teaches truthfulness, compassion and tolerance. These principles are certainly not a 'curse'. As far as your claim of asserting itself as a 'mover politically,' I have to disagree. Everything we have done publicly is for the purpose of ending the persecution against us. That's not politics. It's self defense and it's completely peaceful.

Falun Dafa is good.

Gray Beard
22 August 2008 at 17:23

Doglas Chalmers:

>>It is known that the separatist Tibetan government-in-exile which is run by their spiritual head has long been associated with the CIA in the USA and that can only be assumed for FalunDafa as well as they now follow a similar agenda in attacking China instead of focussing on spirituality. >Thus the age-old Chinese concepts of "Truthfulness, Benevolence, and Forbearance" have been put to use as a weapon for use by US regimes to attack China.

Gray Beard
22 August 2008 at 17:43

Don’t know what happened to the above post. I’ll try again.

Douglas Chalmers:

You said: >>It is known that the separatist Tibetan government-in-exile which is run by their spiritual head has long been associated with the CIA in the USA and that can only be assumed for FalunDafa as well as they now follow a similar agenda in attacking China instead of focussing on spirituality.>>Thus the age-old Chinese concepts of "Truthfulness, Benevolence, and Forbearance" have been put to use as a weapon for use by US regimes to attack China.

Gray Beard
22 August 2008 at 17:45

The same thing happened. Guess I'll give up posting for now.

Falun Wrong
23 August 2008 at 01:49

Falun Gong: living proof you can be an oppressed group and a bunch of dingbats at the same time.

I wish the Chinese government would leave these nutcases alone so the rest of us could have some peace.

sarahsarah
24 August 2008 at 23:03

" I'd support their clampdown on FalunDafa." When you thought of and typed this word, Ron, do you know what " clampdown" means to this group in China, these Human beings like you ? would you still want to give applause to the economic growth of China if your beloved familiy menbers were prisoned and tortured simply because the Chinese Communist party fears these peaceful people?

I believe you would not believe that Human lives are less important than econimic growth. If then, what is economic growth for eventually?Isn't it for people?

How could it cost people's lives?

I believe you would agree with me. Because both of us are Human beings.

Sarah

A practitioner used to be in forced labour-camp

dragonchef
25 August 2008 at 09:47

Thank you Leeshai Lemish, for writing this article. Falun Dafa is great!

Douglas Chalmers
27 August 2008 at 17:22

#Gray Beard, 22 August - Don't " give up", eh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsoc4-QnplY

Douglas Chalmers
27 August 2008 at 17:40

#tigress013, 19 August : "You will find this particular system on cult watch lists..."

Traumatic Abuse in Cults: A Psychoanalytic Perspective - "In a religious cult, the leader is perceived as a deity who is always divinely right, and the devotee, always on the verge of being sinfully wrong, comes to live for the sole purpose of pleasing and avoiding displeasing the guru/god.....

There is, however, an important distinction to be made between idealization and idolatry. Idealization that goes well enough functions to build a strong sense of self, and leads to the capacity for effective self-regulation and satisfying interrelatedness and mutuality. Idolatry, the ultimate form of defensive idealization, always implies submission and enslavement to one who dominates, controls, and possesses.....

Normally, we don't expect ourselves, human beings that we are, to attain this kind of ultimate perfection, but rather to be awed and inspired by it, and perhaps humbled. If, however, we are determined to ignore our human limitations, demanding absolute perfection of ourselves, we enter the realm of pathological perfectionism.....

Idolatry and pathological perfectionism can be readily observed in some spiritual paths led by self-proclaimed "fully enlightened," or "perfected" masters, who are worshiped within their communities as perfect, living embodiments of God.....

The problem of pathological perfectionism has its roots in parental failures in managing healthy omnipotence in the developing child. Traumatic misattunement, unresponsiveness and impingement by parents leads to the development of pathological forms of omnipotence, and the child must then seek an antidote to unbearable impotence. This may be externalized, as in cases of spiritual submission to others who are perceived as perfect, or as in the search for the perfect lover, who turns out never to be perfect enough; or internalized, where an internal masochistic slave strives desperately to fulfill insatiable demands for perfection from an internal sadistic master..." http://www.danielshawlcsw.com/traumatic_abuse.htm

The Dark Side of Enlightenment: Sadomasochistic Aspects of the Quest for Perfection http://www.danielshawlcsw.com/dark_side.htm

Gray Beard
28 August 2008 at 18:20

"#Gray Beard, 22 August - Don't " give up"

Thanks Douglas! I didn't give up.

You said: "It is known that the separatist Tibetan government-in-exile which is run by their spiritual head has long been associated with the CIA in the USA and that can only be assumed for FalunDafa as well as they now follow a similar agenda in attacking China instead of focussing on spirituality."

I dunno Douglas. This sounds like standard paranoid style communist tripe. And yes Douglas. It “can only be assumed” by you because it is a fantasy. I noticed you used the word “spiritual head.” Is this because your bosses don’t want you saying “Dalai Lama?” Thats OK. We don’t want you to get in trouble.

"Thus the age-old Chinese concepts of "Truthfulness, Benevolence, and Forbearance" have been put to use as a weapon for use by US regimes to attack China."

Absolutely correct. FG pursue truth and forbearance as a brutal weapon, more deadly than nukes. Be afraid Douglas. And through an extraordinary confluence of evil forces, the U.S. is now using truth and forbearance as well, to attack attack attack. Just look at all the dead bodies from the use of these horrible weapons. This is very unfortunate for the heroic CCP, tireless defender of the Chinese people. No missile shield, no threat of mutual assured nuclear destruction, will be able to stop these new and insiduous weapons.

Its good that you are here to alert the Chinese people about this. I suggest you give specific examples of the destruction wrought by truth, forbearance and benevolence. That way we can know what to expect and prepare for the onslaught.

Douglas Chalmers
30 August 2008 at 07:39

Gray Beard, 28 August: "...FG pursue truth and forbearance as a brutal weapon, more deadly than nukes. Be afraid..... No missile shield, no threat of mutual assured nuclear destruction, will be able to stop these new and insiduous weapons..."

Instead of responding at length, I will simply quote the founder of Aikido and author of "The Art of Peace" as no amount of truth, tolerance or forbearance (compassion) would ever satisfy your contentious inner natures:-

"Work on yourself and your appointed task in the Art of Peace. Everyone has a spirit that can be refined, a body that can be trained in some manner, a suitable path to follow. You are here for no other purpose than to realize your inner divinity and manifest your innate enlightenment. Foster peace in your own life and then apply the Art to all that you encounter.....

One does not need buildings, money, power, or status to practice the Art of Peace. Heaven is right where you are standing, and that is the place to train.....

All things, material and spiritual, originate from one source and are related as if they were one family. The past, present, and future are all contained in the life force. The universe emerged and developed from one source, and we evolved through the optimal process of unification and harmonization.....

The Art of Peace is medicine for a sick world. There is evil and disorder in the world because people have forgotten that all things emanate from one source. Return to that source and leave behind all self-centered thoughts, petty desires, and anger. Those who are possessed by nothing possess everything....." http://omlc.ogi.edu/aikido/talk/osensei/artofpeace/

myrrh
30 August 2008 at 08:30

Thank you Leeshai Lemish, it is very refreshing to see that you are accurately informed and have made a truthful account of Falun Gong.

The comments posted by :-

FalunGonginfo, 19August2008@18.54 and...

Douglas Chalmers, 19August2008@19.40 and..

Tigress013 etc.

and others who are also paid 5 Maos by the Chinese Communist Party to make up lies .......

Absolutely 'nothing' you wrote is anywhere near being intelligent. I feel sorry for you that you have no purpose in your lives and I am sure that you could make more money doing an honest days work like the rest of us. Do you realize that everything you wrote is all about yourselves. Do you realize that everything you say and do shapes your future. Please have a happy future. And anyone wishing to know the truth of falun gong, apart from reading the writings of Leeshai Lemish, can be referred to www.faluninfo.net a most enlightening website.

jjyz
30 August 2008 at 11:27

I just want to make a quick note, after scanning these response sections, that the people who seem to be standing up for Falun Gong are not writing in a kind and friendly way. I feel that the notes often carry a combative and argumentative tone. I'm disappointed to see this.

Douglas Chalmers
30 August 2008 at 13:41

In hating China, they have focussed endlessly on their own negative thoughts, jjyz. Nevertheless, there is much in life to be happy about.

Spirited Away http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KaKm3Z-lWo

Luke Buthman
31 August 2008 at 17:11

Dafa practitioners that are commenting, I would like to offer you a suggestion.

"There’s a saying, 'When the common man is humiliated, he draws his sword to fight back.' He’s an ordinary person, so of course—'You insult me, I’ll insult you. You hit me, I’ll hit you right back.' That’s an ordinary person for you. Could you call him a practitioner? If you don’t have a will of steel, or if you aren’t able to control yourself, you won’t be able to handle it right."

My understanding is that these people's words are not the Fa. Some people will laugh at what we believe loudly, and that is their choice. It's not going to effect my cultivation or my clarifying the truth with a compassionate heart.

Anyone can read whatever they want to about Falun Dafa; they can read bloggers opinions or they can read first hand what our practice is about. Master Li has numerous books and lectures that are free to download, but how many people have read them?

I also have a comment for people who do not practice Falun Dafa. I want to first preface it with a question and answer from Teaching the Fa (Law) at the Western U.S. Fa (Law) Conference.

"Question: Due to shortcomings in spreading the Fa (Law), up to this day there are still not a lot of senior personnel in the scientific and technological community who are true cultivators. What should we do?

Teacher: About this, it doesn’t matter what department it is or what social class it is, the spreading of Dafa aims at people’s hearts, it aims at individuals, and not at any social groups. For example, let’s say a person has some authority and he commands people: “Everyone has to come learn. Not learning isn’t an option.” Then who would sincerely come? They would come because you forced them, you ordered them, or out of consideration for friendship; they wouldn’t come for obtaining Dafa. It only works when a person truly wants to learn of his own will. So no matter how high people’s positions are or how much power they have, we only look at their hearts. Nobody can represent someone else. Some of us say that after people in certain organizations obtain the Fa, they may benefit us more in terms of spreading Dafa and affirming that Dafa is scientific. I’m not against your having thoughts like that. It’s excellent that you want to safeguard Dafa and do work for Dafa. However, things usually aren’t how you have imagined them. It depends on whether the person wants to obtain it or not. It works only if he wants to obtain it. If he doesn’t want to, it won’t work. Dafa won’t suffer on account of somebody missing out. Some students get all worried and say: “We’re afraid to tell students how to do things at the practice site. Once we tell them how to do things, students will stop practicing and leave.” I’d say that might be acceptable when a student lacks an in-depth understanding of Dafa. But if a student is still like that after a period of study, then let him go if he wants to. What we want are cultivators, not people who mix in with the crowd to try to gain something, or people who are here to fill some quota. If ninety-nine out of a hundred were not sincere and left, with only one sincere person remaining, that would still be your achievement. Even if there were just one person saved, it would be outstanding. But it won’t be like that. After all, there are already so many people cultivating in Dafa now."

My final point is that practitioners of Falun Dafa don't always handle everything well; we don't always understand the right things to do or the right things to say. Go to the source to make your own understanding.

DC
01 September 2008 at 08:41

Falun Dafa practitioners represent Falun Dafa to the public, but at the same time, a Falun Dafa practitioner is still human and will make mistakes.

I'm a Falun Dafa practitioner, and I agree with Luke, I've made more mistakes than I can count since I became a practitioner in 1998, I'm not 25. But there's not a day that goes by, that I do not thank Master Li for imparting me the teaching of FLG that has changed my life and my mothers life completely.

I used to drink heavily, use drugs, you name it...my friend's brother and his friend used to be heroin addicts, in and out of prison..they are not even 30....what in this world has the power to change someone for the better like that? They have been clean ever since learning FLG.

I hope the people that are commenting, if you don't practice FLG, just go to falundafa.org, and you can read Zhuan Falun for free. Read it once completely through...then comment.

If a FLG practitioner doesn't act in accordance with "Truth, Compassion, Tolerance" it doesn't mean FLG is wrong, or Master Li is wrong. It means that they are in the midst of cultivating themselves, and that process includes making mistakes...but realizing them, and then changing yourself so that you are thinking of others constantly and foremost, that is cultivation...this is merely my understanding.

The people in China, the 10's of millions of them are also doing the same...but they are being tortured and killed for their belief by the CCP.

The proof is there, the U.S. large media's recognized that in the beginning, you can google all the articles before 2002...but since then, there's been a media blackout of FLG because of pressure from the CCP.

DC
01 September 2008 at 08:56

One more thing: Mr. Douglas Chalmers, the FLG website looks better not because FLG is being secretly funded by the US government, Jews, or other organizations as some people believe. The website looks better because there's millions of people in the world who practice FLG, including people from all walks of life. I'm a graphic designer, I've worked on things that are related to FLG, although not the site. So is it not conceivable that someone, perhaps another designer wanted to do something from the goodness of his/her heart and designed a better looking website? Are we not allowed to have something that is more attractive? I see it as being very natural...it's just that that's how people are nowadays, they see something, they automatically assume something else...."this site is looking better and better, what are they trying to pull?"

Ask yourself how ridiculous is that assumption? If you created a website, your own website, do you not have the right to improve it...in all aspects?

It's the same with people passing out flyers on the street, or Epoch Times and New Tang Dynasty....people immediately think that someone or some organization has been funding these media's, and in turn, that person get's turned off because they believe there's some conspiracy theory...

It's very simple, FLG pracitioners volunteer their time, take money from their own pockets to fund websites, newspapers etc. They don't ask for anything in return.

How do I know this? I'm one of them. I've worked at English Epoch Times for more than a year now, designing pages for the paper...I've never asked for anything, and nor do I want anything back.

That is something only FLG practitioners will understand...not even my closest friends (who don't practice) find it conceivable that I use my spare time to do something for others, for no money.

But people are dying in China by the second, I feel privileged to grow up in an environment where I can believe what I want....but other's in China don't have such a luxury, I can't stand by, I will not stand by. Each page I design, or each story that is written helps people realize the true atrocity that has been going on in China for that past 9 years, helps people realize that the CCP is the REAL cult, and that they've killed more than 80 million of their own citizens in this century.

So before making assumptions,please go to a practice site in the morning and talk to other FLG practitioners, see for yourself how they are, how they live.

Douglas Chalmers
01 September 2008 at 18:31

"Are we not allowed to have something that is more attractive? I see it as being very natural...it's just that that's how people are nowadays..."

No, #DC, their current website is not nearly as "attractive" as the original and it is in no way "natural" as there is little that relates to the individual and that was one thing that the old site was indeed good at. It WAs for the practitioners, not the whiners who have usurped FLG.

If they really wanted to have a site that "...is looking better and better", they could have gotten someone in China to do it for them. At least they could have once, not now, though. As a graphic designer, you should know that the most beautiful websites are in countries like China and Japan.

"I feel privileged to grow up in an environment where I can believe what I want...." is so sadly typical of the deluded state of mind in the West and in the USA in particular. Your Christian Zionists want to blow up the world (or help the Israelis do it for them) so that they can somehow bring on the second coming of Christ.

M. Teri
02 September 2008 at 19:30

I see Douglas is up to his old tricks with these postings. As I mentioned elsewhere, Douglas, I hope you're getting something from the CCP for all your efforts; because they are offering incentives to people who promote their hype and slander Falun Gong. If you're not getting any, then I'd say you're not just a fool but a complete fool.

brucecarroll999@gmail.com
12 September 2008 at 02:19

It seems to me the ET and Dafa sites are keeping up with technological advances and we all have personal preferences regarding their attractiveness or not..bit of a weird tangent, I think.

Mpb
18 November 2008 at 08:59

How about the theory that Li Hongzhi is a fraud? He claims to have trained in the mountains with various "masters" and acquired special powers including the ability to levitate. His story is like something from a bad Gong Fu film.

Also where are you pulling these numbers from? There were never that many people in China who bought into this Scientology esque cult in the first place.

Phil
06 December 2008 at 23:32

People say this, people say that. But the matter is - Nobody is forced to practice Falun Gong. If you whant it, just go ahead and read Li Hingzhi's books and learn the Falun Gong exercicess. If you don't, just don't do anything. I'm sure that, no Falun Gong practitioner will beat, and torture you until you decide to learn it. But one thing is truth. No matter what Falun Gong practitioners believe in and who Li Hongzhi in fact is. The CCP is torturing chinese Falun Gong practitioners and harvesting their organs, because of their beliefs. And it has also been distorting informations about Falun Gong and it's founder. And when questioned about the Human Rights situation in China, CCP representatives declares that the United States is this or that, and they never answer the questions...rsrsrsrs... They answer for their crimes, accusing others. The international community isn't stupid, and everybody already knows that CCP ( not China and the chinese people, CCP and China aren't the same thing, China has existed before and will still exist after CCP has been finished) is a liar and that it distorts informations that accuses it.

I'm not American nor Chinese, and I don't care about what CCP thinks about the USA.... The fact is, CCP must stop persecuting Falun Gong practitioners in China and it must and release Falun Gong practitioners from the forced labour camps. THIS PERSECUTION IS A REAL HOLOCAUST AND EVERYBODY SHOULD URGE CCP TO STOP IT.