The Faith Column

139 comments from readers

Lucy James
28 August 2008 at 12:05

One reason the Dalai Lama gives Westerners for banning the practice of Dorje Shugden is that we are “sectarian” or even “a cult”. However, whereas the Dalai Lama says to be non-sectarian means to practise all traditions (as he now does), Dorje Shugden practitioners say being non-sectarian means to respect all traditions.

The last chapter of religious persecution started January 2008 in the Southern India monasteries of Ganden, Drepung and Sera. There were still a large number of Dorje Shugden practitioners living there indistinguishable from the other monks, doing everything together – daily prayers, meditation, debate, teachings, kitchen chores, administration – proof that in decades of patriotic re-education the Dalai Lama had still not really convinced the educated monastics that there was anything wrong with this Dharma Protector.

After the so-called “vote sticks” -- when in front of the entire monastic assembly each monk was to take the oath never to worship Dorje Shugden nor have any spiritual or material relationship with anyone who did -- actual sectarianism began in earnest and an outcast group of Tibetans arose. 900 monks are expelled from their homes. At Ganden monastery, a wall is erected to segregate Dorje Shugden monks from other monks.

Punishment for those “traitors” who refuse to conform = no yellow identity card. No identity card = no ability to buy food, travel, and so on. Eerily reminiscent of Germany in the 1930s?

A great deal of persecution happened in the months after the ban in the 1990s, sanctioned by the Tibetan government in exile. For example,Tashi Angdu, president of the Tibetan Regional Council, said: “Anyone who is against the Dalai Lama must be opposed… that is to say by all means including violence” and “There are official and unofficial Deities, and worshipping Deities not approved by the government is against the law.” Other anonymous posters said (and still say): “They have to be killed.” “We will interrupt their lives.” “You will be dead in seven days.”

Then some voices from the West started questioning what was going on and on May 14 1996 the Tibetan cabinet released a statement denying any religious suppression. This denial has been going on for 12 years, along with the refusal to meet and discuss. But there is now irrefutable evidence of a ban and persecution and, thanks to the power of the Internet, the Tibetan regime is no longer as able to substitute reality with image and spin.

Lucy James
28 August 2008 at 12:13

The Dalai Lama has used his political power to impose a ban of a religious practice. This is documented in many places (e.g. recently on France 24 TV). Since the ban, hundreds of monks have been expelled from their monasteries and there is persecution of lay people. All this too is well documented, with an increasing number of testimonials from Tibetans finding the courage to speak up.

Please see www.wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.org and its blogspot www.wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.blogspot.com for background information, videos, updates, articles on this.

Even my young nieces, with whom I watched Kung Fu Panda, understood that to be truly great you need to be truly humble, especially when it comes to your masters. But the Dalai Lama has broken with his masters and when asked by a Swiss investigative team, "Do you think your masters were wrong?", he replied, "Wrong, yes, all wrong." And as well as banning the practice of Dorje Shugden and starting a Buddhist apartheid, right now he is even organizing the removal of all thrones and pictures of his masters, especially Trijang Rinpoche. Left to his own devices, he will destroy all trace of this tradition completely.

This is why Dorje Shugden practitioners find ourselves in the position of having to fight back against his hubristic actions. We don’t mind if he wants to stop practicing himself, that is his right – but forcing others to give up their religion is wrong.

Please see www.aboutwss.org

Friendoftruth
28 August 2008 at 12:18

Thank you Meindert Gorter for your writing.

I would like also to give this story as I understand it, from my personal experience, research and reflections. No doubt some data I owe to the Charitable Society, and I've given them my thoughts too. But mainly because I've been inside the Tibetan Buddhist world since the late seventies. A chunk of time. Heartfelt gratitude to the New Statesman for this opportunity of telling the world about our plight.

THE TIBETANS TWICE EXILED

VICTIMS OF THE DALAI LAMA

I)

This summer I watched a TV program --"Buddhist Warriors", where they were showing Buddhist monks of different nationalities engaged in street demonstrations. The journalist kept asking each of them the same question: how do you reconcile your (demonstrations, protests, etc.) with the fact that Buddhism is a religion of peace and love?

Although political activism is not new to monks, it’s true that –at least for those who consider them as a last frontier of goodness for humankind– it can be shocking to see them forced to abandon their prayers and dignified demeanor.

Although not shown in that program, many saw the demonstrations that a group of both Western and Tibetan monks staged against the Dalai Lama, and probably many were shocked or pained by them as well. The most painful, though, in this case, is to have to say that those members of the Buddhist monastic community were right, what they were saying is the truth.

In the case of the Dalai Lama, the mere idea of him being ordinary is for many practically unbearable. The world is convinced that he is the embodiment of everything good and noble. How can it accept that he be like any other being, capable of doing things that we don’t approve? Some feel that if we were to accept such thing we would become orphans in a way, deprived of a model, of a supreme father, an enlightened sage … a friend, a spiritual friend. The day the world is going to see the Dalai Lama as an ordinary man and judge his deeds, we cannot say that the world is going to be a worse place than it is now, but for many people it’s going to feel cold, it’s going to taste bitter, it’s going to be sad.

That a Buddhist –I am a Buddhist from the depths of my heart– needs to show him in such ordinary aspect is among the saddest chores that a person can undertake.

Thinking of those protesters that followed the Dalai Lama from Germany to England, from Australia to the United States, culminating their demonstrations in Madison, Wisconsin –the place where he imparted his first Kalachakra to America– I am persuaded that many among them were sad from the marrow of their bones much before having to resort to demonstrations against him. The cry of the child abandoned by the mother, the cry of the adolescent child abused by his own father, these types of sadness might be a good image of the bewilderment and pain, a pain of the heart, searing, that so many Tibetans have been suffering since the Dalai Lama decided certain things, some years ago. Unheard of things. The Press does not want to believe them, refuses to investigate. It’s understandable. To bring down that sacred figure, what suffering for many! People should perceive the magnitude of the pain that produces the decision to expose the owner of that holy name as not being what he appears to be.

The Dalai Lama's success comes no doubt from his constant talk about compassion and religious tolerance. It’s quite a feat to sustain such success merely with words while simultaneously promoting for years a witch hunt in the Tibetan community against a group of his fellow Buddhists.

These Buddhists, contrary to what people under his influence and misinformed journalists are saying, do not constitute a cult or some kind of sect, split from the greater Buddhist body. They were the most mainstream among the Tibetan Buddhists, the Gelugpas, until he turned them into outcasts.

The Dorje Shugden issue is being presented to the world as a religious matter. In a general way, anything Tibetan usually has a mixture of political and religious elements, but this particular question is considered by many Tibetans as a more specifically political issue. We've heard Tibetans saying, in this context: "We care more about Tibet than about Dharma, so don’t touch the Dalai Lama". The implications of such statements should be clear: "Even if he’s wrong in the religious field, we don’t care; he is our political champion and that’s what matters most to us".

THE POLITICAL BACKGROUND OF THE PERSECUTION

The SEVENTIES

The first moves against the practitioners of the Protector Deity Dorje Shugden had an internal political reason. We are talking of the late sixties and the seventies. The Dalai Lama and members of his entourage thought that he had to strengthten his authority over the whole of the Tibetan community to better face the world while in exile, and that a good way of doing this was to mix the beliefs and practices of the 4 schools of Tibetan Buddhism –Sakya, Nyingma, Kagyu and Gelug– creating thus, de facto, a single school with him at its head. This was a political move without much religious basis, because while he was the political leader of Tibet, the Dalai Lama had never been its religious leader. Each sect had always had its own head, and in general it was accepted that the highest spiritual authority in Tibet was the Panchen Lama.

For the Gelugpa Lamas, the proposal of suppressing religious diversity by mixing up the practice of all lineages constituted a serious religious mistake, so they refused to accept it. The Dalai Lama didn't have any authority other than political to impose on them his idea. He is not the “Pope of Buddhism” as people believe, but more important: it is a tenet of Mahayana Buddhism that Lord Buddha taught many different Dharmas for different levels of practitioners. So the notion of heresy is not accepted, let alone the idea of persecuting other Buddhists.

Probably due to this lack of doctrinary basis to impose his will, the Dalai Lama decided to turn against the Dharma Protector of the Gelugpa lineage as a way to eliminate those Lamas who opposed him –his own teachers, the most revered and influential among Tibetans. Remember this, because today the Dalai Lama wants the world to believe that the Dorje Shugden people constitute a kind of cult. This is untrue. They were the most mainstream of Tibetan Buddhism.

For many years, the Dalai Lama was not very successful with the Gelugpa Lamas and monks in his attempts to vilify the Dharmapala Dorje Shugden. For the longest time all he obtained was that people would talk about the Protector in a hushed way so as not to wake up the Dalai Lama’s famous anger.

The NINETIES

More than 20 years later the Tibetan leader suddenly decided to bring this old domestic tension with the Gelugpas to the general Tibetan community. He proclaimed a ban on Dorje Shugden and a tremendous persecution started then, with an inquisitorial destruction of books and images, the interdiction of holding civil jobs for the practitioners and much more. The Tibetan Draft Constitution that the Dalai Lama had much publicized as the basis for a democratic Tibet, was altered to include a specific prohibition for the Dorje Shugden practitioners to hold public office.

Why all of a sudden had he done that? The absence of any new religious development and the events in the political field point to the fact that he needed the creation of a great red herring to cover an event that had taken place in Strasbourg, France, some months before receiving his Nobel Peace Prize. In that occasion, after decades of trying to convince the world that Tibet was an independent country, after prompting his Western followers to participate in the famous "Free Tibet" campaign that mobilized thousands of young Americans and other Westerners around the world, he gave up the independence of Tibet –offering China "autonomy" instead of independence– without ever once consulting the Tibetan people about it, nor alerting those many thousands of Westerners who had worked for him and for Tibetan independence … He gave up Tibet's independence all alone on his own.

His solitary, autocratic political move towards China practically remained unnoticed by the general Tibetan public, and the few individuals who became aware of it and were not in agreement with it didn't have time to conceive and start an opposition to the Dalai Lama because soon after that he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. When he received this extraordinary acknowledgment Tibetans thought that the independence of their country was finally within reach. In the halo of victory of the Nobel Award some oracular prophecies from his direct entourage confirmed the imminence of the so longed for independence.

But the years went by and the kindled hopes started vanishing. The victories ended up favoring only the person of the Dalai Lama, remaining exclusively in the field of his fame and public relations, while Tibet's destiny changed following the rhythm of changes in the Chinese regime. And thus a window of opportunity seemed to open for an important political opposition against the Dalai Lama. This was the opposition against his "autonomy" theory –a metaphorical word for his acceptance that Tibet is part of China– and it erupted in the last months of the year 1995, led by his brother Thupten Norbu, residing in Indiana, USA. He created the Tibet Independence Movement and the Walks for Independence, openly defying his brother the Dalai Lama.

...

Jason
28 August 2008 at 12:28

Will the WSS please stop making it's own bias press releases. It reallly is sounding a bit desparate. Is Lucy James a co-author of these articles??? Shugden is a sectarian menace and it's practitioners are a rowdy aggressive rabble who try to push there practice on everyone else. They are in a minority and the only reason Westerners are getting involved agsinst the dalai Lama is because of 'Geshe' Kelsang Gyatso spreading his exclusivity and brainwashing to Westerners delighted to have a 'real' Tibetan as their leader.

Friendoftruth
28 August 2008 at 12:30

THE OPPOSITION

This brother deserves that someone writes his biography (apparently Harrier wrote one but I’ve never seen it). Although still living in Indiana he has unfortunately suffered a severe brainstroke. He was the Tibetan liaison official between the Dalai Lama, the CIA and the freedom fighters at the time of the Tibetan guerrillas. When his mission ended –once president Nixon started the USA friendship with China– he was very unhappy and apparently never lost his dream for a free Tibet.

Someone who was for years among his closest people told me two interesting bits of information. Norbu had at a certain point his and the Dalai Lama's old mother living with him. Both of them, mother and son, together with the people in their household, used to do the prayers to the Protector Dorje Shugden. Fortunately the old mother left this world many years before the ban. But not the son. It’s terrible to see how this person was forced by the power of his brother to give up his religious beliefs. In an interview with Donald Lopez he goes on and on echoing all the slandering that his powerful brother is circulating about the Protector and the Gelugpa Lamas. But at the end of the interview, he pronounces a couple of sentences that utterly deny what he said before, acknowledging the good work that the Dorje Shugden people are doing in disseminating the teachings of Lord Buddha, and then saying: "But, too, you know, the good and the bad, which one is it?"

I also learned that Thupten Norbu, once he knew about the intentions of his brother to abandon independence, secretly produced and printed pamphlets in favor of independence that he smuggled directly to Tibet, sown in people’s garments. Some years later, in 1995, he started in the open his opposition against the Dalai Lama with the aforementioned Movement and the Walks for Independence.

But the Dalai Lama was not going to accept this rebellion against his will, so he had to make it disappear. In order to avoid the spread of the pro-independence movement among Tibetans –who are fiercely in love with their Motherland– apparently he considered that it was not enough to publicly scold his own elder brother –which he did while giving teachings in Japan; he needed to entirely divert the attention of Tibetans from such a dangerous issue. Thus, all of a sudden, in March 1996, he resurrected that old domestic disagreement with the Gelugpa Lamas, brought it to the general Tibetan public and came up with an idea that might sound strange to Western ears but for Tibetan ears held the strength of a powerful bomb: he declared that the Protector Dorje Shugden harmed his own health and the cause of Tibet and proclaimed a political ban against the deity.

In brief, at the end of the year 1995 began the pro-independence opposition against the Dalai Lama’s "autonomy" idea. In March 1996 the Dalai Lama issued the ban against the deity Dorje Shugden. This dates are not to be forgotten.

This red herring was a success. The persecution took inquisitorial tones, not only with the burning of sacred books and statues and even of houses of practitioners but with the prohibition for these to hold civil jobs, to attend public teachings and ceremonies, and many other unfortunate attacks on their human rights, as I will explain.

THE BAN

In March 1996, H.H. the Dalai Lama announced a ban against the worship of the Buddhist deity Dorje Shugden, declaring that such worship posed a "danger to his life and the cause of Tibet."

Nothing fans fanatic concern of Tibetans more violently than the thought that His Holiness' life could be in danger. Thus the Dalai Lama, deliberately giving this as a reason for justifying the ban on Dorje Shugden, triggered the heaviest of discords and the relentless persecution of the Gelugpas faithful to their religious commitments.

His Private Office issued a decree for everyone to stop practising Dorje Shugden, with instructions to make people aware of this through government offices, monasteries, associations, etc.

The Assembly of Tibetan People's Deputies (Parliament) passed a resolution banning the worship of Dorje Shugden by Tibetan government employees.

The Dalai Lama personally encouraged the Tibetan Youth Congress and the Women Association to enforce the ban. Consequently a group of nuns dragged into the street a holy Dorje Shugden statue consecrated by some of the highest Tibetan Lamas by using a rope attached to its neck. They spat at the statue, sat on it, broke it up into pieces, and threw the remains into the town's garbage dump.

The Tibetan Freedom Movement and the Guchusum Organization barred the worship of Dorje Shugden among their members.

All government employees were ordered to sign a declaration to the effect that they do not / will never worship Dorje Shugden. Those who didn’t comply lost their jobs.

The Tibetan Department of Health gave a special notice to doctors and staff:

"We should resolve not to worship Shugden in the future. If there is anyone who worships, they should repent the past and stop worshipping. They must submit a declaration that they will not worship in the future."

Employees of the Tibetan Children's Village were urged to take oaths against Dorje Shugden.

The Dalai Lama made it mandatory for administrators and abbots of all major Tibetan monasteries to enforce the ban. A campaign of intimidation and forced signatures set the stage for many acts of violence against the practitioners in the various monasteries.

Through his private office the Dalai Lama commissioned Sera Je monastery 21 days of wrathful exorcisms against Dorje Shugden and his practitioners.

The Tibetan Youth Congress implemented the ban in every Tibetan settlement, with house to house searches, desecration and burning of statues, paintings, and other holy objects.

THE FIRST DENIAL

All of this and much more happened in the first two months after the ban.

Then some voices from the West started questioning what was going on.

Consequently, on May 14 1996 the Kashag (Tibetan Cabinet) released a statement denying any religious suppression.

This was the first denial.

From that time on the Dalai Lama, the Tibetan government and all Tibetan institutions never stopped the persecution, simultaneously denying that it ever existed.

As mentioned before, the Draft Constitution of the Tibetans was changed to bar the practitioners of the deity from having civic responsibilities and in the facts all practitioners were forced to apostasy or were fired from their jobs.

Regretfully the world automatically protected the Dalai Lama's fame, never believing that the Lord of compassion was persecuting his own people. The state of denial of the Press regarding the actions of the Dalai Lama is a whole other matter, a phenomenon worthy of specialized research.

YEAR 2008

In the meantime, it seems that the Chinese government never believed the sincerity of the Dalai Lama’s desire to bring Tibet back to what the Dalai Lama called "Mother China". It's impossible to know if they are right or wrong in their mistrust. They do know that he badly wants to go back to the Potala of his youth but they don't find a motive to believe that he only wants to return there "as a simple monk", without any desire for political activity. One thing seems sure: they didn't measure the profundity of his personal desire for returning to his country.

Today it seems obvious that the Dalai Lama chose 2008, the year of the Olympic Games, to try to force China into accepting him back, on his own terms. A number of journalists, politicians, and specialists of international affairs believe that the riots in Tibet took place under his instigation, to corner China at such a delicate moment of its history. We don't know if this is true or not; in any case he jumped to the occasion provided by the violence in Tibet to try to make his aspiration of returning Tibet to Mother China a reality.

But again he needed peace at home while proclaiming to the world –this time very loud– his solution of handing Tibet to China, so different from his heroic fight for freedom in the past. The problem was that the exile Tibetans hate this solution. The Dalai Lama could not run the risk of losing face at such a significant historic moment because of actions from his own people, those stubborn pro-independence minded Tibetans.

THE DALAI LAMA GIVES TIBETANS A TERRIBLE MISSION

So he used the same "distraction": he rekindled and intensified the persecution against the Dorje Shugden practitioners. He put all Tibetans on this terrible mission: locate them and erase them from the Tibetan world. Tibetans are today, as I write, massively following the unfortunate advice of their leader, and it’s working to an extent that the world prefers to ignore.

The opposition in the name of independence still exists, but its people are too involved in implementing this new witch hunt. There is another factor: they don’t dare truly oppose the leader. They might talk a little bit to the Press from time to time, but since 1996 they never organized again true actions of opposition. They know better. They've seen a clear mirror of the danger of opposing the Dalai Lama: the practitioners of Dorje Shugden. These Gelugpas who refused to give up their religious commitments are treated as traitors sold to the Chinese, as Chinese spies, and regularly and falsely accused to the Indian police of various crimes –in general of being a threat to the Dalai Lama and in particular of the heinous Dharamsala homicides of three monks. Even though the Indian Judiciary never found an author, and never found any fault in the people of the Shugden Charitable Society accused by the Tibetan government, the Dalai Lama keeps repeating that the culprits were the Dorje Shugden practitioners, with some people of the Press and well known people from the academic milieu irresponsibly perpetuating the calumny.

This ultimate chapter of the religious persecution started last January, 2008, and the main victims were the great universities for higher Buddhist studies, the Southern India monasteries. Although through the years their authorities had to pay lip service to the ban issued by the leader, and this had caused trouble to the faithful Gelugpas, they still had a big number of Shugden practitioners peacefully living in Ganden and Sera, indistinguishable from the other monks, doing everything together, daily prayers, Sojong or confession, studies of the demanding philosophical syllabus, Logic debate, examinations, preparation of food, administration and financial chores… proof that in more than 30 years the Dalai Lama hadn’t truly convinced the knowledgeable Geshes and monks of the Gelugpas that there was anything wrong with the Protector’s practice. Their actions against the lineage for the most part were/are performed under the monumental threat of the Dalai Lama’s power.

The year of the Olympics gave him the opportunity to both exterminate the Protector’s devotion in the Tibetan people and use it as a means of distracting the pro-independence Tibetans. So he went to Southern India in January and personally ordered the abbots and disciplinarians to organize a caricature of Vinaya vote against the Deity and the religious followers. Who would have dared oppose him? A mere thousand monks, today separated from their fellow monks by physical walls and the wall of the schism imposed by the Dalai Lama. During this last wave of persecution, it was in those monasteries that were first forced the oaths in front of deities swearing that one does not worship the Protector Dorje Shugden, and swearing that one is never again going to have the slightest human relation with his practitioners. Even very young monks had to take the oath.

There started the final push to impose the ostracism, the segregation, the creation of an outcast group of Tibetans that Tibetans cannot even talk to. The Dalai Lama honored his own word: some years ago he had said to a group of people who tried to engage him in dialog to abate his wrath against the Gelugpa practitioners: "it’s going to get worse for them, it’s going to be like the Cultural Revolution."

Friendoftruth
28 August 2008 at 12:34

ENACTING THE PERSECUTION

At least a thousand monks have been expelled from their monasteries –Ganden and Sera. Such forced schism is huge and constitutes the ultimate religious transgression: to divide the Sangha. But the lay people suffer too, defenseless in the midst of fanaticized communities. After the Winter 2008 events, the campaign of forced signatures and oaths is being extended to non-monks in the remotest parts of the world where you can find Tibetans, pervading the whole of the monastic and lay communities, from Southern India to Darjeeling, from Sikkim to Queens, New York.

In a restaurant that I know well, in Jackson Heights, NY, they posted the photos of the monks who are asking for religious freedom as if they were wanted criminals. The hate language included, of course, the accusation of receiving money from the Chinese. Those poor monks, working 12 hours chopping vegetables or being bus boys in restaurants or doing construction work … They were among the first exiled when the persecution started in 1996, now they don’t have any other place to hide. If this is happening in New York, people should try to imagine what is going on in India and Tibet, where even the kids of practitioners are victims: when they are not expelled from schools, they are being purposely isolated and not talked to, as if they were pariahs.

Accustomed to his leadership, disoriented by exile, most Tibetans have chosen to stick to their Dalai Lama, ignore his failures and accuse others for the loss of their country. So under the Dalai Lama’s instigation, the Dorje Shugden practitioners have become the scapegoat at whom anybody can throw a stone.

The suffering in the fractured Tibetan community and the destroyed Buddhist Sangha is difficult to describe completely because it’s all pervading. Some days ago I was walking the streets of Sunnyside, New York, with a friend, a young Tibetan monk from India. All of a sudden a young lay Tibetan caught up with us and said hello to the monk and they started talking, half in Tibetan half in English. Tibetans usually ask all kinds of questions, and the obvious one this time was where each of them came from. My friend mentioned a name that I didn’t understand, and the other Tibetan said "oh, yeah, in the settlement I come from, we also have that monastery". After a little while this young guy reached his destination and said good bye. Then I asked the monk: "I never heard of your monastery having a branch in Southern India, what were you talking about?" And he answered, "Well, I didn’t tell him the true name; my monastery is well known for being faithful to Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and the Protector, so if I had said its true name to him, he would have felt so much hatred." I wish other people could have seen the monk’s face. He remained calm, but a subtle compassion mixed with sadness pervaded his features, an expression that said something like 'such waste, such misfortune'. It was obvious that he was protecting the mind of the other person with his innocent lie. But nothing could protect him from the situation.

A couple from India were also visiting the United States at the beginning of the summer. They told us about some small misfortunes that they had encountered since people discovered that they were the relatives of a famous Gelugpa Lama's reincarnation –friends who stopped visiting them or calling them on the phone. These people, though, are professionals holding doctorates and have jobs and activities that have nothing to do with Tibetan issues. Most Tibetans do not have such a good situation. They entirely depend on their own Tibetan community; if they are ostracized they become like the living dead, they don’t find friends nor support anywhere.

Some friends of mine are sending money to help an old monk that takes care of a small Buddhist shrine somewhere in India. This monk lives alone. The last time they sent money they didn’t have any answer from him. Some days ago they finally were able to talk to him on the phone. He said that he had received something from the bank, but he didn’t know what it was, because the Tibetan friend that usually helped him with these matters had stopped helping and even visiting him. The local Tibetan Association, following the rules of the Dalai Lama, had had a signature campaign, and the friend of the monk had to swear and sign against the Dorje Shugden practitioners, so he could not go back to help him because the old monk had not forsaken his devotion to the Protector. Now I wonder: how many old monks have been abandoned by their own people because of the actions of the Dalai Lama? And worst of all: how many were forced to forsake their religious faith in order not to be abandoned by their people?

I have only told some of the stories I personally know. But the pain out there is incalculable. People are denied travel documents because of their faith. Monks coming from Tibet to India looking for higher Buddhist education are forbidden to reach a monastery if they do not sign giving up their faith in the Protector. Children have been expelled from schools in India because their parents are Dorje Shugden followers. Some of these kids end up being sent to Nepal for them to be able to receive an education. In the Tibetan settlements the practitioners can see their photos nailed to trees or street posts denouncing them as Chinese spies, because they have the courage of not giving up the practices that their Lamas gave them or that they traditionally received from their families. The monks followers of their faith have been denied access to their monastery’s kitchens and food provisions –even though the funds for the monk’s food came, in a specific case, directly from the donation of a renowned Lama who until his recent demise never ceased being a Protector’s practitioner– they are forbidden to enter the Tibetan stores in the neighboring settlements and forced to go far away to shop for basic daily needs in Indian stores. If another Tibetan sees them he crosses the street. In one of the big monasteries a gigantic wall was built in order that they will not be seen by others. They have been called unclean by the Tibetan Government –that only follows orders from the Dalai Lama. Other names and insults are not worth mentioning.

THE UNHOLY CRUSADE EXPORTED TO THE REST OF THE WORLD

There is another angle to this already sad story. The Dalai Lama has been exporting his unholy crusade to the rest of the world. It’s painful to see how Western Buddhists belonging to Dharma Centers fanaticized in favor of the Tibetan leader are following the Dalai Lama's lead, slandering the practitioners of the Ganden tradition just because they try to keep intact the teachings and transmissions of their Gurus.

Just think how would you like it that your students or your family receive emails or phone calls stating that you are a demon worshipper, or a bad person who opposes the kind Dalai Lama.

I find it shocking that Western Buddhists would give up our best values of the "other" Enlightenment, the one which gave us our sense of human rights, by which we were able to end slavery and so many awful things that humans did to humans up until not so long ago. In our Western world, we have really made progress in this area, and I've been thinking that it’s a shame and a pity that Westerners would so easily accompany the Dalai Lama in the discrimination, slandering and persecution of others because of their religious beliefs. This is a very serious matter.

If I were a politician, a political leader, an educator, I would be very worried. The basic principles that our founding fathers defended, the Dalai Lama is transgressing, and there are people perfectly aware of this that are defending him. Says TIME magazine, commenting on the aggression that the Dorje Shugden practitioners suffered in the streets of New York from the Dalai Lama’s followers: "Most scholars e-mailed for this story were hesitant to line up behind the Shugdenpas, partly … because many are themselves deeply invested in the Dalai Lama, and partly because of the whiff of fundamentalism and recklessness that clings to the sect." And TIME forgets to mention that "fundamentalism" (recklessness is a new one) is the main accusation that the Dalai Lama invented to justify his religious persecution.

If scholars adopt as their own the arguments used by the Dalai Lama, what recourse is left to the victims? And those scholars, discussing at length a mystical figure like Dorje Shugden, as if it belonged to their field, did they ever realize that it does not matter the nature of the deity, it does not matter if their supporters are fundamentalists or not (and they are not) … nobody has the right to do to them what the Dalai Lama is doing? How come they, the intelligent ones, the knowledgeable ones, the ones who should know better, find justifications for the abuse, the segregation? I would very much like that people interested not only in human rights but in the educational side of human rights were able to investigate this matter and react. This poison is so malignant ... it might be almost impossible to find an antidote if things are left as they are right now.

Friendoftruth
28 August 2008 at 12:48

NOT A BAN? THEN WHY NOT SOLVE THIS MISUNDERSTANDING HIMSELF?

But the Dalai Lama is saying that there never was a ban against Dorje Shugden, only his good advice against an evil spirit or against spirit worshipping. This is a startling, nakedly untrue statement.

On the other hand, it could be answered to him, and it has been answered, that if such tremendous misunderstanding had taken place, his compassionate obvious action should be to publicly state that there is no such ban against Dorje Shugden and that the Dorje Shugden practitioners are as worthy of respect as any other Buddhist practitioner, and he should also publicly demand that they be restored to their original dignity, both as religious people and as Tibetan citizens. But he does not want to do this, such an easy way to stop such immense suffering.

I apologize to whoever follows his teachings, I apologize for him, for his using the holy words of Lord Buddha and at the same time doing the opposite of what these words teach. Do not believe the Dalai Lama, but please do not doubt of the supreme goodness of the holy Dharma.

MOTIVATIONS

What I said at the beginning about how sad it is for a Buddhist to have to expose the Dalai Lama is not rethorical. It took me years to start writing. I’ve seen a close friend literally die because of this issue, a few years after the ban on the Protector. I chose to stop my thoughts after that, because I feared to follow her. Our hearts were broken and we were not Tibetans, I don’t want to imagine the pain of Tibetans. Still today there is a tremendous sadness, because of course we love him. The Dalai Lama is for us like a beloved uncle or elder brother gone crazy. One cannot stop loving him.

But one has to stop what he is doing because it’s wrong.

Then there are the millions of our fellow human brothers and sisters, most of them non-Buddhists, that might only have him as the model of what goodness is. To destroy the god of their innocent Pantheon is just awful, it breaks the heart of a decent person, not to mention what it does to someone who has adopted the Mahayana ideal.

But one has to stop what he is doing because it’s wrong.

After years of mental silence I came back to the issue. He made me come back. The Dalai Lama. What he did to our Sangha last winter is beyond description. So here is the first motivation for exposing him: we have to protect the persecuted monks. Now we know that the Dalai Lama is true to his own word: he said that he wanted to finish what he had started –the destruction of the faithful Gelugpas, the ones who didn’t abandon their Teachers, the ones guilty of preserving the transmissions that their Lamas gave them, the ones guilty of keeping the sacred bond with their Gurus– and he is doing it, he is destroying them.

Now the schism has taken place and the monks are separated, but even though the land where they live belongs to India, we know that the Dalai Lama is not satisfied, he wants to erase them from the Tibetan world, so as soon as the world forgets a little about the demonstrations, he is going to send again his people to expel them even from their now segregated quarters.

So one has to stop what he is doing because it’s wrong and he is hurting living beings.

FUNDAMENTALISTS?

THE ULTIMATE DORJE SHUGDEN PEOPLE

And then look: here are our Lamas. You probably don’t know who was Pabongka Deche Nyingpo, Trijang Dorjechang, Domo Geshe Rinpoche, Zong Rinpoche, Rabten Rinpoche, Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tharchin, and all the others. Their hearts were an ocean of love and compassion, of blissful wisdom. They were friends to all beings, to all religions, to all Buddhists. Now the Press and the Academia are repeating the Dalai Lama’s calumny: that he banned the Protector of their lineage because it promotes a sectarian mind, because our greatest Gelugpa Lamas were sectarian.

And people use the "proofs" that the Dalai Lama has handed them, from obscure historic gossip that obviously he is manipulating. He manipulates events that ocurred under our eyes, as I showed above, what credibility can be lent to his version of history? Why don’t they look into what happened in our present time, where every action of those slandered Lamas, the ultimate Dorje Shugden people, contradicted and still contradict the Dalai Lama? Those Dorje Shugden people were his people, the great Lamas who stayed with him in the very difficult first decades of exile, nurturing him and helping him and helping every exiled Tibetan from every one of the Buddhist schools, without the slightest discrimination, with a love and a sense of profound care that should be shown to the world as the true example of what Buddhism is.

The accusation of fundamentalism against them has been conceived to please Western ears. It’s a childish one, if it were not so tragic. As I said before, in Mahayana Buddhism we believe that the Buddha taught many different Dharmas to suit the minds of different levels of practitioners. Because of this it’s extremely important to keep the lineages of instruction and transmission pure, not to mix them, in order that they can serve their purpose for those who need them. This is not only true for the Gelugpas, but for the other sects as well. The refusal of mixing lineages is a protection of diversity among the variegated Buddhist tenets. Where is the fundamentalism in this position?

Those Lamas defamed by their egregious pupil were true living Buddhas, true embodiments of love and compassion. They were the living proofs of the wrongdoings of the Dalai Lama, and like innocent lambs they mostly never answered, following the Lojong rule that one does not defend oneself but leaves whatever victory to others, in order not to disturb their minds.

Those true Princes of Peace are still with us, although most all of them departed to the Pure Lands. They are with us through their precious, infinitely beneficial teachings. This is what the Dalai Lama wants to destroy: our sacred bond with our Gurus, with the ones who taught us what to keep and what to abandon, the ones who are never going to forsake us, all the beings suffering in samsara, so how could we forsake them? If we follow the Dalai Lama’s advice, we loose our connection to the source of all goodness, our Lamas.

But the Dalai Lama has destroyed their good name, their credibility. He says in the famous video of the Swiss television, talking about his and our Gurus: "Yes, wrong, they are wrong!" A lineage of almost 400 hundred years of enlightened beings that have been venerating the Protector Buddha Dorje Shugden is wrong and he, alone, right? This does not stand to reason.

Are our kind Lamas going to go down in history as evil spirit worshippers? No. The world needs to know the truth.

Of course, our enlightened Gurus don’t have the slightest need for our help. So here is the deepest motivation for exposing the Dalai Lama: all the beings in this world of suffering need our Lamas and sooner or later in the infinite round of lives they are going to encounter their teachings. At least that is what we desire, what we hope for. We cannot allow that the momentary imbalance of an individual, just because he is famous and has an endearing smile, destroys the good name of the lineage, the teachings and the Lamas. Many have abandoned already the noble ones because of his calumnies. That is why this has to cease, for the benefit of all beings.

That is why we have to stop the actions of the Dalai Lama.

Douglas Chalmers
28 August 2008 at 13:26

The Dalai Lama refers to "cultural genocide" in his crusade against China. It is a clever play on words typically used by Tibetan separatists to justify their very un-Buddhist crap to Westerners who they have been manipulating for decades. if there was ever any "genocide", it was the Han who suffered far worse than those in Tibet SAR.

So utterly precious, then, that the DL's followers "...began to demolish statues of the (Shugden) deity..." whilst blaming the Chinese (Han) for the destruction. As with other expansionist and ambitious groups in the world, religious "cultural genocide" is whatever they choose it to be. Interestingly, in their associations with the hegemonic powers of the West, they themselves are quickly corrupted.

The fake state of Israel's non-relationship with the Palestinians is another example used to the advantage of those with a vested interest in having the West believe in their genocide. Millions of Ashkenazi Russian Jews with no links to either Jesus or to the WW2 genocide in Western Europe have created a colonialist "settler society" in what was once Palestine all funded and supported by the West.

These are misconceptions sold as beliefs to the naive and gullible Westerner who is light on history and even more poorly informed as regards the world's religions. The old testamant of the three Abrahamic religions is not understood except as part of Christianity and the Jews have absolved themselves in the murder of Jesus by blaming the Romans (Italians) whilst they continue to await an avatar who will never come.

How simple, then, for the pro-separatist groups or "schools" of Tibetan so-called Buddhism to pick and choose what suits their mission in the West to curry favor and support for their separatist nationalist anti-China racist agenda under the cloak of Buddhism and to perpetrate violent rebellion in Tibet under the hypocritical guise of advocating non-violence in the West.

Thus the main casualty is Truth and that takes us as far from the teachings of Buddha as one can get. This ultimately has nothing to do with "...mix(ing) the lineages..." despite what Meindert Gorter's own agenda is and has nothing to do with the Shugden deity as both sides are merely constructs to suit the belief systems of the now-opposing groups. Neither is that new in Tibetan Buddhism as it has ever been moulded politically to suit.

The only thing that has been "bad for the Dalai’s health" has been the revelation of just how damaging the Tibetan separatist cause has been for his own people upon the insistence of those elitists in their government-in-exile who want to grab power at any cost. It has even been demanded that he either shuts up or gets out of the way of their intended impetuous revolution of bloodshed for their presumed return to their long-gone glorious past. See "Don’t Stop the Revolution!" by Jamyang Norbu http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?c=4&t=1&id=20330&art...+Stop+the+Revolution!+-+Jamyang+Norbu

Tenzin
28 August 2008 at 14:50

thank you Meindert, Friend of Truth and Lucy -- such helpful description.

Jason if you read carefully you will see you are mistaken about blaming Geshe Kelsang for what you are reading and perhaps you should take your NKT bashing elsewhere. This issue is far bigger than that. Also, the blogger here is Meindert Gotter, who is Kundeling Rinpoche's disciple, not Geshe Kelsang's. Friend of Truth is also not in the NKT. He has spent a great deal of time with Tibetans since the 1970s and is evidently a very kind and learned person. I know this also from encountering him over a period of months on the Dorje Shugden forum. As for WSS propaganda that you blame Lucy James for, I hardly think they'd put out a press release talking about the KungFu Panda!

In general, this problem with the Dalai Lama is huge and finally coming to light. No one wants to be the first to shoot Bambi, which is probably why the press have been slow to pick up on this significant story. But it is also possible for the Dalai Lama to admit he made a mistake (as his predecessor the 5th Dalai Lama did, so he has a precedent), restore religious rights to his people and stop the withchunt without him losing the love of his people -- in fact, Dorje Shugden practitioners will love and respect him all the more for it and harmony in his community will be restored. People accept that others make mistakes. If he accepts his own mistake, the problem is solved.

Dougal
28 August 2008 at 15:16

friendoftruth -

i prostrate. you've humbled me and reminded me to keep love foremost in my heart in these tragic times.

your words reveal you to be a true example of a Dorje Shugden practitioner. i pray many, many people will read them.

dharmagirl
28 August 2008 at 16:41

Thank you, FriendofTruth, for a clear and constructive discussion of this whole affair. Thank you Lucy James and Wisdombuddha. And thank you, New Statesman, for providing this much needed public form. It has given my heart some much needed peace, for I too have not wanted to believe these things of the Dalai Lama. I have deeply loved my wise and compassionate Shugden teachers, people who have never said an unkind word about the Dalai Lama despite what has gone on. But I have imagined -- and needed somehow to see -- the Dalai Lama as no less warm and loving. So naturally, confusion arose in this mind.

Of course we can only surmise the Dalai Lama's true intentions, though the circumstantial evidence that has been marshalled makes of a compelling argument. Whatever the underlying motivation, it cannot be denied that the Dalai Lama wants the Tibetan people to throw their weight against Shugden practice and practitioners. What is sad is that so much anger has been unleashed in the minds of this leaders' ardent followers, and so much suffering has ensued! Meanwhile the public -- and yes, the media -- refuses to see what is going on.

As a former journalist I long for a genuine debate on this issue -- a point-by-point argument. But that will only happen if the Dalai Lama allows it and so far he is not allowing it. There are many contributing conditions for this. In my experience, Tibetan culture does not value open exchange in the same way it is valued in the modern, Western world. In my experience, its people tend to conform, especially to powerful hierarchies, rather than to question. This is a country that was, after all, cut off from the modern world up until only very recently. That some brave Tibetans who follow Shugden have spoken up in these trying circumstances is beyond inspiring to me.

I have little more to add except these things: Nothing in my experience says sectarian, as the Dalai Lama claims. Nothing says demon or evil. This is not some fundamentalist crazy cult. The Shugden followers I know want nothing more than to cultivate love and compassion and wisdom in their hearts. It's unexpected that this controversy is itself providing the vehicle for this!

Dharmagirl

Friendoftruth
28 August 2008 at 17:32

Dear Douglas:

To talk about other groups' general sufferings when we are given a small space to talk about the specific sufferings of the Dalai Lama's victims does not help anybody, neither the greater groups you mention nor this relatively smaller group that is trying to explain its plight to the world in this Faith Column. (Like the Falun Gong people did last week.)

We acknowledge every single day of our lives the suffering of all beings, at least we should do it, it´s the basic foundation of our practice and the first teaching of the Buddha.

We do not do this in a general way, in our holy tradition. We go in great detail into the contemplation of suffering specific to every type of samsaric being. Our mothers. Our children. In a way, suffering is our specialty ... our being tuned to other's suffering, I mean.

Just in this case, and just for the motivations explained by myself and others, we are trying to stop the unnecessary suffering of a particular group by the most pacific of external means: talking.

So, I think I understand your general outrage for the political wrondoings of many actors of this samsaric world, but would it be possible that in this Faith Column, and only for four days, we can concentrate in the present religious persecution against the faithful Gelugpas? (Now called Dorje Shugden people).

I would like you to know that we don't have any political agenda (that I am aware of) except the protection of the practitioners. We have looked into history and we learned a lesson: nothing protects religion more, in the political field, than the utter separation of church and state, and the protection by the state of every single body's beliefs. Not by affirmative action, just not allowing persecution and abuse.

I hope that you can find some agreement in your mind with what I am trying to express.

Best to you and all of those who are trying to understand this difficult case, and to all.

Douglas Chalmers
28 August 2008 at 18:03

#Friendoftruth: "...would it be possible that in this Faith Column, and only for four days, we can concentrate in the present religious persecution against the faithful Gelugpas...?"

What a load of holier-than-thou crap, Friendoftruth. You are at your most most sanctimoniously manipulative and snide best..... and being totally dishonest, uhh.

In a way, you are NOT "tuned to other's suffering..." so much as your own covert political agenda which you have yet to make known. You just haven't lined up the right suckers to take advantage of..... in the Tibetan independence movement and government-in-exile - which you would like to take over - and latterly, support and funding from the US State Department!

Oh so "...suffering is our specialty..."? What a joke! You are only interested in your own suffering..... as powerless apwns of the DL. What you want is your own little bit of power and you'll sell your souls to attack China on demand if it gets you what you want. How are you really any different from the rest of the Tibetan separatists, eh?

For you lot, its all just "California dreamin' " as long as you have your US green cards. "Well, I got down on my knees..... and pretended to pray..." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wI6uAOHzvo

You say that "...the Dalai Lama is for us like a beloved uncle or elder brother gone crazy..." but maybe he has spent his life trying to stay sane despite all you madly self-centered Tibetan nationalist dreamers - and a bunch of crazy Western religious nuts?!?!

Will D.
28 August 2008 at 18:22

For those who don't get the gist of this article- Basically it's the equivalent of the Pope telling catholics that there was a mistake in naming a Saint and that you should no longer pray to that saint. Unfortunately, some catholics would be pretty upset about it and that's what we have here.

Tenzin
28 August 2008 at 18:29

dear Douglas Chalmers, please keep the angry rhetoric down. Everyone else is trying to be polite here, except for you.

I confess I don't really understand what you are angry about (and I've been trying!), sorry. Are you saying that you think we are attacking China? Where did anyone say that? In any event, please be civil when making your points, it'd be appreciated by the rest of us (well by me, at least!)

Will D, I suppose the Pope and Saint idea would work if it was a majorly big saint that was at the heart of many people's Catholic faith e.g. Saint Francis. And if the Pope also said that this Saint was in fact, unbeknownst to all his faithful followers over the last 400 years, an evil demon.

Tenzin
28 August 2008 at 18:34

And the Pope and Saint idea might also work if the Dalai Lama was the equivalent of the Pope of Buddhism, but as has been discussed on these blogs, he is not. He is not even the head of one of the four Tibetan schools of Buddhism. He is not the head of all the other Buddhism in the world e.g. Sri Lanka, Thailand, Burma etc etc. There is a big misconception (that he himself seems to have done nothing to quell, by the way) that he is the leader and spokesperson for Buddhism worldwide, but this is just that, a misconception.

Dharmakara
28 August 2008 at 18:57

Tenzin: While John paul II was still Pope, the Vatican actually did consider removing a very popular saint --- St. Christopher. The out cry was so great that they did an about face on this issue.

Hopefully the Dalai Lama will see the wisdom in doing the same.

Geronimo
28 August 2008 at 19:05

This Dalia lama is not the elected head of anything and has no rights to determine the destiny of anyone, other than himself.

Tibetan Buddhism will recede and a new Buddhism is arising in the West.

A Buddhism protected by the Laws of a Free Society. Not anchored in the past with a medieval theocratic dictatorial potentate of the Dalia Lama lineage.

No longer will any Buddhist Practioner suffer under the whims of a single person's will.

We do not need any authoritarian Lama's approval to believe as we please.

We have cut the ties to the Old World and are free to turn the Wheel Of Dharma.

We are free to express our Love and Compassion.

Without interference from anyone.

Each and every one of us stand individually.

We all Stand Together as One.

Our beliefs are not confused with the Idol Worshipping of another human being as our faith.

We do not take refuge in sentient beings.

We are Free to believe as we choose.

We are free to fight anyone who attempt to steal or interfere with our freedoms.

Do Not Tread On Me!

Geronimo
28 August 2008 at 19:16

The Teachings Of Manjunatha Lord JeTsongkapa Is

The Holy Grail For

"Shambala's Confederation

of

Shugden's Vajra Warriors"

The Buddha Dharma Will Flourish

And

Brave and Honorable Citizens

With Discriminating Wisdom

Will Safeguard Our Rights to Freedom

&

The Dharma

Ten Billion Divine Vajra Warriors will shine in the year of the Dragon to Defend Freedom "

Tsongkapa's Council Of Vajra Elders

OM VAJRA WICKI WITRANA SO HA

"Now I am free to practice openly"

As Written In The

US Constitution and The Bill Of Rights

United Nations Declaration on the Elimination of All Forms of Intolerance

Declaration on the Elimination of All Forms of Intolerance and of Discrimination

Based on Religion or Belief, G.A. res. 36/55, 36 U.N. GAOR Supp. (No. 51) at

171, U.N. Doc. A/36/684 (1981).

The General Assembly,

Considering that one of the basic principles of the Charter of the United

Nations is that of the dignity and equality inherent in all human beings, and

that all Member States have pledged themselves to take joint and separate

action in co-operation with the Organization to promote and encourage

universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms

for all, without distinction as to race, sex, language or religion,

Considering that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the

International Covenants on Human Rights proclaim the principles of

nondiscrimination and equality before the law and the right to freedom of

thought, conscience, religion and belief,

Considering that the disregard and infringement of human rights and

fundamental freedoms, in particular of the right to freedom of thought,

conscience, religion or whatever belief, have brought, directly or indirectly,

wars and great suffering to mankind, especially where they serve as a means of

foreign interference in the internal affairs of other States and amount to

kindling hatred between peoples and nations,

Considering that religion or belief, for anyone who professes either, is one

of the fundamental elements in his conception of life and that freedom of

religion or belief should be fully respected and guaranteed,

Considering that it is essential to promote understanding, tolerance and

respect in matters relating to freedom of religion and belief and to ensure

that the use of religion or belief for ends inconsistent with the Charter of

the United Nations, other relevant instruments of the United Nations and the

purposes and principles of the present Declaration is inadmissible,

Convinced that freedom of religion and belief should also contribute to the

attainment of the goals of world peace, social justice and friendship among

peoples and to the elimination of ideologies or practices of colonialism and

racial discrimination,

Noting with satisfaction the adoption of several, and the coming into force of

some, conventions, under the aegis of the United Nations and of the

specialized agencies, for the elimination of various forms of discrimination,

Concerned by manifestations of intolerance and by the existence of

discrimination in matters of religion or belief still in evidence in some

areas of the world,

Resolved to adopt all necessary measures for the speedy elimination of such

intolerance in all its forms and manifestations and to prevent and combat

discrimination on the ground of religion or belief,

Proclaims this Declaration on the Elimination of All Forms of Intolerance and

of Discrimination Based on Religion or Belief:

Article 1

1. Everyone shall have the right to freedom of thought, conscience and

religion. This right shall include freedom to have a religion or whatever

belief of his choice, and freedom, either individually or in community with

others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in

worship, observance, practice and teaching.

2. No one shall be subject to coercion which would impair his freedom to have

a religion or belief of his choice.

3. Freedom to manifest one's religion or belief may be subject only to such

limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary to protect public

safety, order, health or morals or the fundamental rights and freedoms of

others.

Article 2

1. No one shall be subject to discrimination by any State, institution, group

of persons, or person on the grounds of religion or other belief.

2. For the purposes of the present Declaration, the expression "intolerance

and discrimination based on religion or belief" means any distinction,

exclusion, restriction or preference based on religion or belief and having as

its purpose or as its effect nullification or impairment of the recognition,

enjoyment or exercise of human rights and fundamental freedoms on an equal

basis.

Article 3

Discrimination between human being on the grounds of religion or belief

constitutes an affront to human dignity and a disavowal of the principles of

the Charter of the United Nations, and shall be condemned as a violation of

the human rights and fundamental freedoms proclaimed in the Universal

Declaration of Human Rights and enunciated in detail in the International

Covenants on Human Rights, and as an obstacle to friendly and peaceful

relations between nations.

Article 4

1. All States shall take effective measures to prevent and eliminate

discrimination on the grounds of religion or belief in the recognition,

exercise and enjoyment of human rights and fundamental freedoms in all fields

of civil, economic, political, social and cultural life.

2. All States shall make all efforts to enact or rescind legislation where

necessary to prohibit any such discrimination, and to take all appropriate

measures to combat intolerance on the grounds of religion or other beliefs in

this matter.

Article 5

1. The parents or, as the case may be, the legal guardians of the child have

the right to organize the life within the family in accordance with their

religion or belief and bearing in mind the moral education in which they

believe the child should be brought up.

2. Every child shall enjoy the right to have access to education in the matter

of religion or belief in accordance with the wishes of his parents or, as the

case may be, legal guardians, and shall not be compelled to receive teaching

on religion or belief against the wishes of his parents or legal guardians,

the best interests of the child being the guiding principle.

3. The child shall be protected from any form of discrimination on the ground

of religion or belief. He shall be brought up in a spirit of understanding,

tolerance, friendship among peoples, peace and universal brotherhood, respect

for freedom of religion or belief of others, and in full consciousness that

his energy and talents should be devoted to the service of his fellow men.

4. In the case of a child who is not under the care either of his parents or

of legal guardians, due account shall be taken of their expressed wishes or of

any other proof of their wishes in the matter of religion or belief, the best

interests of the child being the guiding principle. 5. Practices of a religion

or belief in which a child is brought up must not be injurious to his physical

or mental health or to his full development, taking into account article 1,

paragraph 3, of the present Declaration.

Article 6

In accordance with article I of the present Declaration, and subject to the

provisions of article 1, paragraph 3, the right to freedom of thought,

conscience, religion or belief shall include, inter alia, the following

freedoms:

(a) To worship or assemble in connection with a religion or belief, and to

establish and maintain places for these purposes;

(b) To establish and maintain appropriate charitable or humanitarian

institutions;

(c) To make, acquire and use to an adequate extent the necessary articles

and materials related to the rites or customs of a religion or belief;

(d) To write, issue and disseminate relevant publications in these areas;

(e) To teach a religion or belief in places suitable for these purposes;

(f) To solicit and receive voluntary financial and other contributions from

individuals and institutions;

(g) To train, appoint, elect or designate by succession appropriate leaders

called for by the requirements and standards of any religion or belief;

(h) To observe days of rest and to celebrate holidays and ceremonies in

accordance with the precepts of one's religion or belief;

(i) To establish and maintain communications with individuals and

communities in matters of religion and belief at the national and

international levels.

Article 7

The rights and freedoms set forth in the present Declaration shall be accorded

in national legislation in such a manner that everyone shall be able to avail

himself of such rights and freedoms in practice.

Article 8

Nothing in the present Declaration shall be construed as restricting or

derogating from any right defined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

and the International Covenants on Human Rights.

Dharmakara
28 August 2008 at 19:25

Jason: If you can't use right speech, it might be time for you to see a doctor and get a prescription of prozac.

Jason
28 August 2008 at 19:41

Tibet was the most supreme repository of Buddhist wisdom in the world before Mao stamped his way in. It is where all of your dharma knowledge originated. Forsake it at Buddhisms peril. As soon as Tibetan Buddhism loses it's home, it will degenerate at an exponential rate as all kind of Western freaks get their hands on it and use Buddhisms inherent fluidity to their own ends.

I thought Buddhists were supposed to care for all sentient beings everywhere, not just a few in Dharamsala that hang on to a lineage corrupted by the murder/suicide of a monk. Why don't you just practise your cult as you always have and leave the Gelug alone. If you want to help people out, try starting with the worlds starving and those that are being slaughtered with Western weaponry. Dholgyal is not even an original protector diety of Je Tsongkhapa. Lets see what Sept 12th in Delhi's High Court produces shall we. I Dholgyal people will abide by the ruling and be silent if it goes against them (or will then you claim that all India has corrupted by HHDL too!!!). You stomp in here taking aim at an institution 100's of years older than you from a place you have probably never been and all think you are authorities on the matter. It is very sad really. Maybe you should take a line from another philosophy 'all that I know is that I know nothing' and leave the issue for India, China and Tibet to sort out. You think Americans and their British sidekicks in particular should know not to go policing the world - I think it's got you disliked enough as it is, don't you?

Geronimo
28 August 2008 at 19:43

I hope the Dalia Lama has a speedy recovery and continues in good health and realizes compassion for others as his only concern.

Jason
28 August 2008 at 19:45

Dharmakara: Thank you for your medical expertise, better prozac than the hallucinogens Dhogyal practioners seem to be on.

Dharmakara
28 August 2008 at 19:50

Jason: Have you ever heard of the Pakasaniya Kamma? It's in regard to when one's words and physical actions are no longer related to the Buddha, the Dharma, or the Sangha.

Although it is an official proclamation carried out by members of the Sangha, it also becomes self-evident in one's behavior, where the proclamation is no longer necessary.

This is the case when dealing with the Dalai Lama's behavior.

Dharmakara
28 August 2008 at 19:54

Jason: I have suspected the existence, use , and habitual abuse of hallucinogens by many Buddhists for the last couple of years (LOL)

Geronimo
28 August 2008 at 19:59

Yes Jason, this exactly why I gave the Dalia Lama a 100 acres in Bloomington, Indiana.

We realized that the vast treasure trove of accumulated knowledge might be soon lost to the destruction of the Cultural Revolution.

It is also the American who piled tons of moiney to assist the refugees of Tibet.

Where would the Dalia be today, if we American ignored the values of the Christian forged into the New Nation. Maybe we should have let the Tibetans wither and die on the vine?

We are not of the old world that forged Tibet with all of it's dark activities.

We gave and continue to give freely of ourselves and our resources.

We are not ignorant and do know something.

That is we know that we are free to believe as we please.

"All things Must Pass"

From every mountain top, Let Freedom ring"

Our Laws provide for the Spreading of the Dharma

unmolested by anyone.

We are turning the Wheel Of Dharma to the West

As Lord Buddha said

Jason
28 August 2008 at 20:06

Dharmakara! I am glad I have you here to reveal the ultimate truth to me. As I say, we have so many people with all the answers here don't we? This article has been written by a Dholgyal practioner and is therefore biased as are most of the posts.

Dharmakara
28 August 2008 at 20:18

Jason: I'm not here to reveal anything to you or anyone else... my words were offered as a means to encourage some unbiased critical thought and reflection on the issue.

With that said, your statement about the slant of the article is correct, it is from the position of a Dholgyal practioner, but this was what New Statesman was looking for when they were searching for a series of articles in regard to Shugden controversy --- the author didn't randomly submit these articles, he was selected by the editors of the New Statesman.

In like manner, when they publish the series on the controvery from the position of the Dalai Lama, it will also be by an author they have selected from, someone who supports the Dalai Lama's view on this matter.

Geronimo
28 August 2008 at 20:33

"As soon as Tibetan Buddhism loses it's home, it will degenerate at an exponential rate as all kind of Western freaks get their hands on it and use Buddhisms inherent fluidity to their own ends."

Sound similar to all the Tibetan Freaks that used and are using Buddhism for their own agendas.

Karma is as Karma does!

Douglas Chalmers
28 August 2008 at 20:40

#Tenzin: "...keep the angry rhetoric down. Everyone else is trying to be polite here, except for you..."

#Geronimo: "...We are free to fight anyone who attempt to steal or interfere with our freedoms..... Do Not Tread On Me...!The Holy Grail For "Shambala's Confederation of Shugden's Vajra Warriors" "

#Dharmakara: "...It's in regard to when one's words and physical actions are no longer related to the Buddha, the Dharma, or the Sangha..... it also becomes self-evident in one's behavior..."

What an incredibly mannerless lot you all are, uhh. As soon as you find that someone doesn't want to scratch your backs but expects you to prove your worth as true Buddhists, it becomes disgustlingly apparent that you have desires and motivations and attachments which you prefer not to deal with in yourselves..... and are willing to shamefully conceal if not viciously protect with malicious rhetoric .

#Friendoftruth: "Today it seems obvious that the Dalai Lama chose 2008, the year of the Olympic Games, to try to force China into accepting him back, on his own terms..... that the riots in Tibet took place under his instigation, to corner China at such a delicate moment of its history..... in any case he jumped to the occasion provided by the violence in Tibet to try to make his aspiration of returning Tibet to Mother China a reality..."

So pathetically convenient of you to now push all the blame for these things onto the Dalai Lama, Friend-of-lies. You conveniently omit that it was also the time of the elections in Taiwan and the USA finally lost out on retaining its Cuba-like puppet to wedge China with. Too bad for the Neocons.

Staging the riots in Lhasa just before the elections was a ploy to influence voters in Taiwan to be more afraid of closer ties with the mainland. Instead, "Its the economy, stupid!" was more significant there and people were sick of Ah Bian's fear-mongering and agent-provocateur role on behalf of the obviously unfriendly Americans anyway. They certainly weren't impressed by some idiots in Lhasa.

Who wants WW3 when they can have everlasting peace and friendship with their own brothers and sisters? Now, closer relationships with Japan have also been possible and only that Christain fool and his gang in South Korea are still willing to be used as a wedge against their neighbors and relatives. Already, though, his people are sick of him. But, as for Tibet, forget it.

China doesn't want the Dalai back now. Before the carefully-planned disruption of the Olympics torch relay in Europe, it was considered easier to deal with him than the bunch of thugs in Tibet who wanted to rebel. Ever since Jin Jing, the young disabled woman athlete was attacked in Paris, though, the entire scenario has changed in favor of the PRC and more control of militant factions in Tibet SAR and XinJiang SAR. She became a national heroine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I28UcqobzPA

Thus, the pro-Tibet lobby in Washington and their counterparts in Germany (NATO) have worked to cause dissent and prejudice for nothing. Young people in China who once admired the West have seen a disappointing reality and have returned to endorsing their own nationalism. In other respects, the global political situation has moved its focus from China to Russia as the new perceived enemy of the Neocons.

Jason
28 August 2008 at 20:43

Dharmakara: Thanks for clarification. I love you all really, I just get bored at work sometimes. I am happiest in Buddhism when listening to the words of it's Hindu founder. For me, I understand the purpose of dieties but it was the brilliant philosopy and psychology of Siddharta Gautama that really fascinated me. Religious disagreements in any religious institution are inevitable because mankind is in the loop with his contaminated brain. I do very much respect everyones point of view, including that of Shugden proponents. I am the first to admit I have anger in my mindstream on this issue because I was a very big fan of HHDLs, as are many Westerners and I did not know that so many members of the NKT were rallying against him as the WSS. As NKT member, I felt very betrayed and angry when I found out - getting over these negative emotions will be a big step for me. This schism is a tragedy for both sides and the crazy thing is that I do not believe that anyone has any genuine maliciousness in their minds. I do not like people slandering HHDL as many Shugden proponets have done without mercy. He has done much good work and got many, many people interested in Buddhism, no one can deny this. Everyone has their faults, as I am sure the other side of the argument would also concede. I can see from everyones posts that you are kind and loving people.

Dharmakara
28 August 2008 at 20:46

Douglas: "Staging the riots in Lhasa..." Who are you accusing of orchestrating the riots?

Dharmakara
28 August 2008 at 20:57

Jason: I understand exactly what you, it very hard not to react with anger when you have deep respect for the Dalai Lama, but it's important to remember he is human, just like the rest of us, though I'm sure that there many of his supports who would take exception to even that statement.

To be honest, there's kind of a consensus that there will be no winner in this controversy, that the real loser will be the greater Buddhist community at large, especially if non-Buddhists begin to think this this controversy is something problematic to Buddhism as a whole.

One of the posts here stated it correctly, that there are many people who see the Dalai Lama as the defacto spokeperson for all Buddhism. Even more are unaware that there are actually four branches of Tibetan Buddhism, long enough that there is a greater divide between Mahayana and Theravada.

Geronimo
28 August 2008 at 21:03

That's right Douglas. I gave a 100 acres to the Dalia lama in 1979.

I was able to do this because of our "Bill Of Rights",. Which declares as you know the Rights to Believe as we choose.

"Do not tread on Me", means exactly that.

I will fight unto my death to defend the rights of any others rights to say as they think and believe what they wish. Whether I agree with their point of view or not.

I gave freely for my beliefs and I dissent for the same reason.

No one is above the law and this includes the Dalia lama. Who unfortunately has broken the provisions of the Constitutions of the Free Countries of the World and the the United Nations Declaration of Religious Freedoms.

Shamabala Wariors are defending these inherent rights of every person on the face of the planet.

FREEDOM IS OUR RIGHT

Douglas Chalmers
28 August 2008 at 21:07

#Jason: "...mankind is in the loop..... getting over these negative emotions will be a big step..."

Just repeating this post from another ealier topic series on NS:-

Traumatic Abuse in Cults: A Psychoanalytic Perspective - "In a religious cult, the leader is perceived as a deity who is always divinely right, and the devotee, always on the verge of being sinfully wrong, comes to live for the sole purpose of pleasing and avoiding displeasing the guru/god.....

There is, however, an important distinction to be made between idealization and idolatry. Idealization that goes well enough functions to build a strong sense of self, and leads to the capacity for effective self-regulation and satisfying interrelatedness and mutuality. Idolatry, the ultimate form of defensive idealization, always implies submission and enslavement to one who dominates, controls, and possesses.....

Normally, we don't expect ourselves, human beings that we are, to attain this kind of ultimate perfection, but rather to be awed and inspired by it, and perhaps humbled. If, however, we are determined to ignore our human limitations, demanding absolute perfection of ourselves, we enter the realm of pathological perfectionism.....

Idolatry and pathological perfectionism can be readily observed in some spiritual paths led by self-proclaimed "fully enlightened," or "perfected" masters, who are worshiped within their communities as perfect, living embodiments of God.....

The problem of pathological perfectionism has its roots in parental failures in managing healthy omnipotence in the developing child. Traumatic misattunement, unresponsiveness and impingement by parents leads to the development of pathological forms of omnipotence, and the child must then seek an antidote to unbearable impotence. This may be externalized, as in cases of spiritual submission to others who are perceived as perfect, or as in the search for the perfect lover, who turns out never to be perfect enough; or internalized, where an internal masochistic slave strives desperately to fulfill insatiable demands for perfection from an internal sadistic master..." http://www.danielshawlcsw.com/traumatic_abuse.htm

The Dark Side of Enlightenment: Sadomasochistic Aspects of the Quest for Perfection http://www.danielshawlcsw.com/dark_side.htm

Geronimo
28 August 2008 at 21:13

Interesting! I guess that sums up all the practioners of Mahayanna Buddhism

Dharmakara
28 August 2008 at 21:17

Douglas,

You'll get no argument out of me about "pathological perfectionism" --- where one's practice doesn't lead to liberation, but enslaves.

Lyara
28 August 2008 at 21:21

If anyone has made it this far down the page, please check out the latest update on segregation at Sera Je Monastery -- posters stating that Dorje Shugden practitioners are not allowed entry. Jim Crow laws, anyone?

http://wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.blogspot.com/

Dharmakara
28 August 2008 at 21:26

Lyara: We also received copies of those photos lastnight. Just another step in the downward spiral.

Douglas Chalmers
28 August 2008 at 21:59

#Dharmakara: "pathological perfectionism" --- where one's practice doesn't lead to liberation, but enslaves..."

Perhaps not the 'practice' which is the problem so much as the desire to be a slave..... even of " a Protector Deity".

Why worship an external image on your knees when the true path to Enlightenment lies within?

Then again, one can "tame one's mind" yet still be seduced by the Force..... more is required.

'The Good, the Bad, and the Weird' - "...are you the best..... in Manchukuo...?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imgdpz_0m-8

Jason
28 August 2008 at 22:07

Well, while I am temporarily without a sangha. I will ask you all something that is completely not Shugden related. Sorry for going off track. I understand Buddhism has famously little to say on the formation of life, the universe and everything and doesn't believe in a creator - for this reason, some scholars believe Buddhist to be an atheist tradition. Religions based on received wisdom all have an explanation - it was their God that did it!! Physics professors look to quantum physics, string and Grand Unified theory etc. What is the thoughts of this forum? Is our presence explained by a karmic bootstrapping process? Or do simply Buddhists think it wiser not look for an answer and get on with what we have?

Hope things are OK at Sera Je by the way for the Shugden folk, also hope the Dalai Lama gets better. Sounds like some heads need banging together as my Dad used to say!

Dharmakara
28 August 2008 at 22:22

Doug: Ah, yes, the desire to be a slave. I have heard quite a few horror stories through the years, as well as encountered many lemers who are willing to follow their guru or teacher right off the edge of the precipice without a second thought, but this isn't unique to Buddhism.

As for "why worship an external image on your knees..." --- there's a growing number of people in the West who are rejecting this outright, seeking inspiration from the Atta Dipa, but I believe there might be a more important question related to the Atta Dipa which needs to be dealt with...

What did the Buddha take refuge in?

Dharmakara
28 August 2008 at 22:28

Jason: The Buddha actually refused to speculate on such things and never encouraged others to... it's better to stay focused in the "present moment".

Gail D
28 August 2008 at 22:40

I found this posted by someone on the internet and think it may be of interest to the current debate.

The vilification and persecution of Dorje Shugden worshippers within the Tibetan exile community is very real. There are many independent sources which have verified this. Have you read the web-site of the Dorje Shugden Devotees in India? I suggest that you do so. In particular you should read the research work of Ursula Bernis who examined this issue in great detail between 1996 and 1999.

During the WSS protests in Nantes I spoke with an Italian woman of Vietnamese descent who has recently been to Southern India and has filmed forty hours of video footage documenting the reality of oppression and intimidation within the exile community. The plight of the Dorje Shugden worshippers is truly pitiful and all Buddhists and people of good-will should have compassion for them. Anyone who has read the classic novel Uncle Tom's Cabin will have some sense of what it means for someone to try to maintain their faith in the face of fierce adversity. The plight of the Dorje Shugden worshippers is like that of Uncle Tom: "....though he held firmly to the rock of faith it was with numb and trembling grip." Thankfully Uncle Tom triumphed over those who would crush his faith and reduce him to moral bankruptcy, and I hope and pray that Dorje Shugden worshippers will likewise triumph over those who wish to deny them their faith, reputation, and self -belief.

The Western Shugden Society is engaging in the practice of non-violent resistance in the tradition of Gandhi and Martin Luther King. Martin Luther King said that the person of non-violent resistance tries to balance the truths of two opposites. It agrees with the man of violence that evil must be resisted, but balances this by also agreeing with the man of acquiescence that evil must not be resisted by means of physical force. You should also know that it is not without reservation that NKT people have engaged in the WSS protests. I think that almost all of us have some sense of reservation about engaging in this activity. Am I admitting that we are wrong or might be? I think that I am admitting that it can't be said to be obvious that the activities of the WSS are right. However, I also believe that on the basis of a thorough understanding of the issues i.e. the reality of persecution within the exile community, and on the basis of a thoughtful consideration of the options available, and a thoughtful consideration of the philosophy of non-violence resistance, the case for these protests can be made, I think conclusively.

Friendoftruth
28 August 2008 at 23:05

Dear Douglas:

I don't have time to have any political agenda whatsoever, I'm too old for that.

But it's probably my fault that you misunderstood my writing.

I only said that the Dalai Lama used the religious persecution against the Dorje Shugden practitioners as a means to prevent the opposition from the pro-independence Tibetans.

I didn't say that the pro-independence people are right or wrong. It's not my business. This is a Tibetan business.

What I did say is that the Tibetans in exile hate the idea of giving up independence.

I didn't say that they are right or wrong. It's not my business. This is a Tibetan business.

If you push me I would say that probably the Dalai Lama's pro-autonomy position is more realistic than the pro-independence position. But again, it's not my business. This is a Tibetan business.

Sorry, it's of course also a Chinese business. It's them, not me, that so far don't believe that the Dalai Lama is sincere in his position of giving up independence.

OK. This subject entirely strays from our subject here in the Faith Column. Its only pertinence is to show the political background of the religious persecution the Dalai Lama is conducting.

I hope again that you can find some agreement in your mind with what I am trying to say. I didn't intend to upset you, but I understand your being upset if you thought that all I was doing was to promote some hidden agenda of "separatism". Please believe me, it never crossed my mind to meddle in Sino/Tibetan politics.

Again, best to you, Douglas.

Friendoftruth

Geronimo
29 August 2008 at 01:02

Strange how other's words can trigger our memories out the blue.

afriend mentioned the Norbu's brothers Mother living in Bloomington back in 1973+-. with Thupten,Kuanaing, Lhundrop,Kunga and Jigme. A friend of mine who is an an excellent artist, painter her portrait.

I was eating Mo Mo's one night at his home and everyone was having a grand time. Especially watching me sweat with their home made hot sauce.

After dinner I went into his room and admired the pathenon of Golden Buddhas and Dieties, which lined his walls.

I remembered just now that, there he was on the altar a statue of Lord Shri Dorje Shugden. Golden and glistening in the candle light. Just like the image I've seen on the Dorje Shugden Religious & Charitable Society's web site.

I did not know the image was that of Dorje Shugden at that time and it never thought particularly about this chance encounter until it came to mind this evening, some 32-34 years later.

"Organic decay is inherent,

Let each of us seek our own salvation with diligence."

"Ah,

The branch of the Wild Cherry,

How swiftly it flies back."

Our prayers fly across space and time to wish the Dalia lama full and complete recovery from his serious abdominal illness.

Get Well Soon!

Your Old Friend

Thom Canada

Tenzin
29 August 2008 at 01:25

Amazing story, Thom, about your days with the Dalai Lama's mother and brother (in more peaceful times). And quite symbolic of everything, really, that we have lost - the harmony, the friendships, the widespread uncomplicated practice of our Protector. Thank you for sharing this poignant story.

Tenzin
29 August 2008 at 01:30

Jason, this isn't really the place to go into detail, but Buddha taught that there is a creator of all, and that is the mind. Everything is mere appearance to mind, like things in a dream, arising from our karma, or intentions. Madhyamakavatara by Chandrakirti (with excellent commentary by Geshe Kelsang in Ocean of Nectar) explains Buddha's views on the formation of life, the universe, and everything. But from a practical point of view, here we are, and we need to use our time wisely not speculating about every atom but finding release from suffering by realizing that things are not as real as they appear, but are mere karmic appearance to mind. This releases us from the sleep of ignorance and destroys the contaminated karma that causes suffering appearances to arise in the first place. Okay, that had to be short and sweet, but i hope it helps a little!

Geronimo
29 August 2008 at 01:49

Shimmering Tears!

shieu hoong
29 August 2008 at 05:10

am so sorry thom. to be passionate about life carries too, the pain.

Jason
29 August 2008 at 08:03

No, thats perfect Tenzin.

Lubov
29 August 2008 at 08:05

Dear Friend of Truth, Thank you so much for taking the time to detail the history and raising so many important issues.

NOT A BAN? THEN WHY NOT SOLVE THIS MISUNDERSTANDING HIMSELF?

Exactly, if there is no ban, no discrimination, no segregation then he has a responsibility to clear up the misunderstanding. But we know there is a ban, however this is selectively denied and confirmed. He is quite clear on the ban with the Tibetan exiled community (see YouTube, France24 TV). A political leader needs to be accountable for his actions.

And thank you Meindert for preparing your articles for Newstatesman.

I think both of you will help readers who may have experienced some doubt because of this debate.

Jason, I know it must be hard for you to hear people calling someone you respect a 'liar' but this is how it appears. The Dalai Lama has on a number of occasions said there is no ban and there is a ban. He is also touring the west advocating peace and religious freedom yet causing disharmony and restricting religious freedom. Every WSS member I have spoken to, and there have been hundreds, cherish the Dalai Lama and all other living beings - even you Jason when you make comments like 'Shugden Death Cult will be ground to dust'.

all love

Tara

taghioff.info
29 August 2008 at 12:23

@jason

"Is our presence explained by a karmic bootstrapping process? Or do simply Buddhists think it wiser not look for an answer and get on with what we have? "

Pretty much the latter. Creationism is contingent on your model of causality. If you have a mindset (like formal logic) that operates on the tacit assumption that there is a clear one to one and one way relationship between cause and effect, eventually you stumble on the issue of what was the ultimate cause.

If you have a model of causality that posits many to many causility relationships, that can operate in many directions near simulyaneously, then the issue of an ultimate cause (or creator) is far less pressing.

The latter is much more the zone of debate where buddhists tend to circle.

Robert Thomas
29 August 2008 at 12:30

TibetforTibetans got the Amnesty quote wrong, changing the meaning. Amnesty said: "None of the material AI has received contains evidence of abuses which fall within AI's mandate for action – such as grave violations of fundamental human rights including torture, the death penalty, extra-judicial executions, arbitrary detention or imprisonment, or unfair trials". Not, "None of the material AI has received contains evidence of abuses" as TFT wrote. (ref http://www.tibet.com/dholgyal/ai.html)

Robert Thomas
29 August 2008 at 12:34

This is some commentry to the meaning of the Amnesty statement from an academic book published by Routelidge: "This neither asserts nor denies the validity of the allegations against the CTA (Central Tibetan Administration), nor finds either side culpable. Amnesty International regards "spiritual issues" and state affairs as separate, whilst seeing the command-based nation-state as the fundamental framework for understanding the category of "actionable human rights abuses". Fundamental to this were linked criteria of state accountability and the exercise of state force, neither of which could clearly be identified within the CTA context." (Ref: Human Rights in Global Perspective, Routelidge ISBN 0-415-30410-5"

Dougal
29 August 2008 at 15:03

t4t -

the CBI Wanted List on the website you mention contains no reference to Shugden whatsoever.

Enlightened
29 August 2008 at 17:35

Some very useful information about Tibet :

http://www.skycitygallery.com/japan/tibet.htm

Enlightened
29 August 2008 at 17:36

Some very useful information about Tibet:

http://www.skycitygallery.com/japan/tibet.htm

theloneranger
29 August 2008 at 23:10

Here are two questions for you the Dalai Lama's followers to answer:-

Question1 :- Is it ok for the Chinese to suppress Tibetans for following the Dalai Lama? Yes or No?

Question2 :- Is it ok for the Dalai Lama to suppress Tibetans for following Dorje Shugden? Yes or No?

If you answer Yes and Yes, this is okay, your views are extreme and you have no respect for religious freedom but theres no contradiction.

If you answer No and No, this is also ok, you have a compassionate view and a respect for religious freedom and there is again no contradiction.

If you answer No and Yes, this is not good, you have contradicting viewpoints and double standards!

Speeches by Dalai Lama on Dorje Shugden ban!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqsrHiSa7Zc

Lucy James
30 August 2008 at 04:36

I know Geezer has sabotaged this entire conversation (and the same with Meindert Gorter's other blogs) with his spam but I think it is good that it looks like no one is responding and stooping to his level.

The best way to deal with Geezer and other trolls or spammers is probably just to report them to the New Statesman. It says on their contact page:

To report comments on articles or to make a complaint about New Statesman content please email: comments@newstatesman.co.uk

kamomil
30 August 2008 at 11:18

I heard Geshe Kelsang Gyatso has through his family a personal connection to Dorje Shugden, which is a spirit, not a Buddha. DS brings worldly success, but is that a buddhist thing? No. It is said that because people went into wrong direction - not following Guru Rinpoche - but some worldly spirit DS, Tibet was lost to Tibetans.

Are we 'buddhists'? Followers of a Buddha or Guru Rinpoche? And do we need a worldly spirit, if it brings personal speedy success, but not long term enlightenment to All sentient beings?

There's no real reason to follow DS. If it is said to be harmful by HHDL and many other lamas, better to beluieve it. Geshe is just one person. And it seems that DS might harm him personally if he stopped practicing it. Do you really want to join that 'club'?

I'm sorry. I know I offend many, but really: consider what is long term benefit for you and rest of the world?

Douglas Chalmers
30 August 2008 at 14:22

#geezer: "...I decided to look up the full vinaya, the REAL vows..... there were some valid ones… sexual relations (using tantra as an excuse)..... the resident teacher ...is believed to be Tara (A female Buddha)..... she is allowed to eat meat and watch tv, she is the only one in the centre that can break NKT centre rules… WHY?..."

Monkey-business, geezer? Or maybe pigging out, duh? We are all human and, despite our pretences at being "perfected beings", we are ever 'tripping up'. Zhu Bajie is better known to Westerners as Piggy or "Pigsy".....

He is one of the three assistants to the Tripitaka, the Chinese monk, Xuanzang, who in 629 AD, together with the Monkey King, QiTian Dasheng, set out with the monk as his escort and aides on his hazardous and enthralling trek to India to collect the sacred Buddhist scriptures. These were the heroes of the romance the Journey to the West..... He is also known by his name in religion, Zhu Wuneng - Seeker after Strength.....

In the story, Pigsy was the former Superintendent of Navigation of the Milky Way. banished to be reincarnated on Earth for assaulting one of the daughters of the Jade Emperor. Unfortunately a mistake was made and he entered the womb of a sow and was born half-man and half-pig. He was ordained a priest by Guan Yin and is portrayed on altars and in murals as a composite deity, a human with the head of a pig. He carries a nine-toothed muck-rake as a defensive weapon which he used to good effect during the long and arduous journey escorting the pilgrim monk, Xuanzang.....

Although he is usually regarded China-wide as the epitome of gluttony, in Taiwan he is also revered by prostitutes who call on his divine title Shoushou Ye, offering him incense and chants morning and evening whilst calling on him to bring them rich guests, foolish and witless, to be fleeced.....

Kingdom of Swine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhEAJVYuC0M

Tenzin
30 August 2008 at 21:10

Thanks Lyara. I was dismayed to see Geezer and Douglas Chalmers flaming like this because the discussions were so civil before. It is hard to know where to start in refuting their absurd posts so I give up in advance.

I just posted this to the New Statesman because Geezer and Douglas Chalmers seem to be breaking the rules of courtesy in abundance!

Dear New Statesman,

While appreciating very much you took the trouble to hear out the point of view of beleagured Dorje Shugden practitioners, by now you have probably discovered that questioning the Dalai Lama brings out the worst in his followers. The comments have now degenerated into a blood bath, with very offensive postings especially from Geezer and Douglas Chalmers. There are libellous accusations by Geezer also against the NKT that have been replied to elsewhere on numerous occasions but it does not stop people posting them again (you can see http://www.newkadampatruth.org to see the replies if you don't believe me and think the libel should stay up).

Please could you do something about these two posters. I am reporting them in accordance with your statement below (quoted). Thank you for restoring the peace and dignity to this chat thread.

Best, Tenzin

"We want to encourage people to comment on our content and to exchange views with other readers and hope this will be done on a courteous basis. However, if you encounter posts which are offensive please let us know by emailing comments@newstatesman.co.uk and we will take swift action where necessary."

Dharmakara
31 August 2008 at 05:10

Douglas Chalmers (a.k.a. Dick Charmer, Southern Swan, Fong of the Inland) is an online pariah and he's been acting like this on several other websites, including Get Up blogs, where the following advice in regard to him was offered: "Just ignore him. I wish he would get the mental health care that he so desperately needs."

If you ever encounter him, please follow Tenzin's lead and report him to the blog/comments moderator of the site.

francis
31 August 2008 at 18:16

whatever - I just searched this whole page for "politics", but found the only reference in the above supposed 'quote' attributed by you to the author of this most informative article. And as usual, ad hominem attacks say more about the person (or whoever behind the person) penning them.

Khedrup7
02 September 2008 at 00:55

The "segregation wall" at Ganden monastery is similar to countless other walls at many of the monasteries in exile located in India. Such walls around both monasteries and Indian homes serve to keep out livestock and thieves. I have included pictures of similar walls at the Tibetan monastery here:http://westernshugdensociety.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/funny-... (scroll to the bottom).

The WSS has no proof these walls serve the sinister "Holocaust" like purpose they allege. I sent them a letter regarding these photographs and received no response.

if you are going to travel the world calling HH Dalai Lama a liar, your organization better have a stainless record in terms of honest and investigating the facts.

Friendoftruth
02 September 2008 at 04:35

Dear K7,

You say that "such walls around both monasteries and Indian homes serve to keep out livestock and thieves."

But if you go to the website you yourself mention you cannot miss the character of a wall that IS NOT AROUND anything, but just stands in the middle of the monastery's grounds, without any means of communication like a portal or door, just a blind wall that is separating, not protecting.

So why sow such unnecessary doubts?

Why do you think these people are saying what they are saying? They are the Dalai Lama's victims. If you are not going to defend them, at least please do not slander them.

Thank you.

Geronimo
03 September 2008 at 17:52

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZhczLKMZck

"Wally Lama" cartoon

Tenzin Peljor
03 September 2008 at 22:35

I lack time to say something to the plenitude of misinformation by Lucy James and other NKT/WSS followers. For a better background knowledge those who are interested can read my article:

http://info-buddhism.com/Western_Shugden_Society_unlocked.ht...

and more information at my blog:

http://westernshugdensociety.wordpress.com/

It is clear that I am one of their top enemies, although I don't deserve so much honour. You can read what they think about me here:

http://newkadampatruth.org/fpmt.php#a1

Take this Shugden issue with humour, there is already too much fanaticism involved.

Best Wishes and a clear, wise and happy mind, Tenzin Peljor Bhikshu

BTW, this Video was made by other monks from a German Monastery: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q6X8COBIUk

Friendoftruth
03 September 2008 at 23:00

I would suggest the valiant ones that didn't participate in the discussion when it was in full activity and decided to post their views, links and so forth when there's practically nobody else to respond, to use their great courage to think for themselves and reflect:

Why am I persecuting people that only have beliefs that I don't know except through the opinions of other persecutors?

Why insted of persecuting them for their beliefs --which is an action unbecoming in countries that went through the Siècle des Lumières a long time ago, and started believing in human rights a long time ago-- wouldn't I refrain from such miscounduct, a misconduct both in the religious field and the civic field?

Why do I persecute them? What terrible wants in my own heart, what unconfessed frustrations push me to slander those whom I don't know except from my own and the Dalai Lama's campaign of persecution?

Why am I doing this?

Since these brave ones call themselves Buddhists, it would be good that they pray Lord Buddha, Lord Mañjushri, for clarity, for some light to be shed to the darkness of their mind.

Because one thing is clear: they persecute.

The victims suffer persecution.

Good luck with your prayers!

Tenzin Peljor
03 September 2008 at 23:03

I just recognized, the author of this article is a student of Kundeling Rinpoche. I am a former student of him.

Kundeling Lama is seen as a controversial lama and described by the TGIE as a "self-proclaimed Lama". He has no official recognition as a "Rimpoche" see:

http://www.tibet.net/en/prelease/2002/190702.html

He sees this different, see: http://www.kundeling.net/tagtsha.htm

HHDL refused to recognize him as the authentic Kundeling tulku.

Actual Kundeling Lama sues HHDL in India see: http://www.tibetinfonet.net/content/update/116

Some of my experience with Kundeling Lama I published here:

"A former Shugden follower's thought"

http://westernshugdensociety.wordpress.com/2008/08/12/a-form...

Tenzin Peljor
03 September 2008 at 23:09

Dear Meindert Gorter (the writer of the article), I wish to express my appreciation that you openly reveal your own background about the affiliation with Kundeling Lama. Such honesty is something rare. I wish to express my respect for this open attitude. Thanks a lot, Tenzin Peljor.

Tenzin Peljor
03 September 2008 at 23:43

Dear Friendofthertuth, thanks for your thoughts. Your questions, my answers:

Why am I persecuting people that only have beliefs that I don't know except through the opinions of other persecutors?

- I know them first hand ;-) It is my right to correct what I see as misleading and exaggerated claims which are mainly based on hostility against the Dalai Lama (or a kind of paranoia).

Why insted of persecuting them for their beliefs --which is an action unbecoming in countries that went through the Siècle des Lumières a long time ago, and started believing in human rights a long time ago-- wouldn't I refrain from such miscounduct, a misconduct both in the religious field and the civic field?

- If expressing my own understanding and doing what I feel as being correct is “persecuting them for their beliefs” it follows also WSS/Kundeling persecute HHDL - and those supporting him - for their beliefs, because they express their understanding and do what the feel as being correct. There is no difference, isn’t there? As I lived under communist (GDR) and Buddhist dictatorship (NKT) it is properly fine to correct misleading propaganda for the sake of those open to hear it. Since what this is persecution?

Why do I persecute them? What terrible wants in my own heart, what unconfessed frustrations push me to slander those whom I don't know except from my own and the Dalai Lama's campaign of persecution?

- Whom I do persecute? What unconfessed frustrations are in my heart? I confessed my faults already that I wrongly followed misleading teachers, and that’s it. I feel no frustration.

Why am I doing this?

- I don’t like misleading propaganda and I don’t like that newbies of Buddhism are misled. In general I see it as my duty to correct wrong claims which harm others.

Since these brave ones call themselves Buddhists, it would be good that they pray Lord Buddha, Lord Mañjushri, for clarity, for some light to be shed to the darkness of their mind.

- Yes, I do this. I feel not dark. :-)

Because one thing is clear: they persecute.

The victims suffer persecution.

Now my questions:

Who persecutes you? In what way? Do you feel persecuted by me? What makes you feeling persecuted by my actions? What makes you feeling a victim when I express my understanding and beliefs? How you got a victim of what and what is the source of suffering, HHDL?

Friendoftruth
04 September 2008 at 02:52

Dear Tenzin Peljor,

Yes you are persecuting them; what Buddhist will go about slandering other Buddhists because of their beliefs, because the slanderer does not like the beliefs of the slandered upon? It is persecution and you know it. I've seen enough people harmed in Western countries by the calumnies that the Dalai Lama started and you, his followers, continued to propagate, to have the right to use this word. Defamed, slandered upon, persecuted.

And no, you don't know them.

When I say you don't know them I mean, them as practitioners. They have a faith and they have a religious experience. You don't share it, you don't know what their experience with the Protector is. Thus you don't know them. What gives the Dalai Lama and you the right to calumny, to defamation, because of their faith? Nothing in our holy religion gives one such right.

Nevertheless, these people that you hate (I take it that you hate mainly the NKT people) because you didn't like the experience you had there --and it's your right not to have liked your experience with them, no doubt-- these people have closed their mouths for many years about the Dalai Lama's misdeeds. They came back to publicly denouncing him as I did without ever having exchanged a word with them, on my own, because my Lama is gone from this world so I act on my own initiative, when the Dalai Lama started his last wave of persecution in our monasteries of Southern India.

Those people are our Sangha, Tenzin. How do you think we can stay idle while they were even physically threatened? What do you think we can think of the Dalai Lama when we actually know that so many among them have been forced into apostasy, have been forced to outwardly take oaths against what they cherished most: the heritage of our holiest Lamas?

The cruelty of such actions is beyond description. The suffering such actions have produced and still produce is beyond description, how do you describe a person torn to pieces in the most intimate of sanctuaries, their own hearts, their own faith?

I leave aside the persecution that constitutes the matter of civil misdeeds. The proofs are out there, I'm not going to repeat what is there and you don't want to see.

Just think of the monstruosity of using the whole might of his immense political and social power to crush the hearts of believers, helpless in the midst of fanaticized or terrified communities. If that is not persecution then tell me: what is?

One thing is sure, you are not persecuting me. I'm too old and unimportant person to feel threatened by any of this. I just have my practice and a lot of Dharma work to do. So my dear Tenzin, I am really sorry that you love the Dalai Lama and you feel offended by our actions. You will have to do like we did, those who loved him and never stopped loving him: deal with it. With his actions. It ain't easy, that I know. But it's either that or the refusal to see conventional reality.

Tenzin Peljor
04 September 2008 at 09:31

I see Friendofthetruth. "Yes you are persecuting them; what Buddhist will go about slandering other Buddhists because of their beliefs, because the slanderer does not like the beliefs of the slandered upon?"

It follows Kundeling lama and his followers and Western Shugden Society and their followers are persecuting the Dalai Lama and his followers because the slander the Dalai Lama and his followers.

Therefore there are persecutors at all sides, it follows there are victims at all sides.

What is about impartial compassion?

Your claims about what I know and don't know are very funny. How can you say what I know and don't know if you don't know me? What you accuse me of what I would do is what you do yourself: you are telling "the truth" about something which you don't know; what a contradiction.

I know what they think and feel, I was with them for more than six years, I practised it myself and I have also good experiences. But having good experiences is no proof for anything. Also drugs can give you good experiences.

Its the right of the Dalai Lama to say that Shugden is no Buddha and to point out the negative effects of that 'practice', it is the right of others to disagree with him.

If think there is slander involved I suggest to make it better. Statements by the WSS like: ""...All these horrible situations have developed through the power of your evil actions. This is our valid evidence to prove that you are not Buddhist. Because of this, we also believe that you are the saffron robed Muslim. Throughout your life you have pretended to be a Buddhist holy being giving Buddhist teachings that you have stolen from Trijang Rinpoche. By doing this, you have cheated people throughout the world. In summary, it is clear that your real nature is cruel and very evil." and statements of Kundeling lama as reported by France 24 are slander itself.

It is very funny that you guess I hate these people. I do not.

I am still interested in who is persecuting you. Me? The Dalai Lama?

As it has been stated very often, it is the right of the Sangha and monasteries to protect themselves from that what they see as spiritual harmful: the Shugden worship. If you accept the Sangha, you have to accept the Vinaya and its rules. If you accept democracy you have to accept that the majority of monastics refuses Shugden worship and has the right to set up rules at their dwelling places that this harmful practice is not allowed. It is their right to protect themselves from religious fundamentalists or what they see as fundamentalism and fundamentalists.

Those wishing to practice it have the right to do that and can set up their own places, as it already has been done.

According to my own understanding, WSS/Kundeling and you misuse Western values and words like "freedom" and "religious persecution" to justify an unilateral personal war against the Dalai Lama. ( see also Buddhism under Assault: http://nktworld.org/ )

It is up to you and those involved to check their motivations. It's up to me to check my own motivation.

My Sangha are those who follow the wise and keep the rules. There are four major rules involved which are broken by those who go now in public against the monasteries' decisions and HHDL.

I don't like the oath which Sera demanded. On the other hand they had so much difficulties with the Shugden monks that they saw no other way to deal with that. Those who didn't like to make an oath had to leave the monasteries and this is properly fine because it restores the harmony there. According to my own sources it were Shugden monks who created trouble and disharmony. This matches with my own experiences, so I don't doubt my sources.

As Shugden worship is perceived by many high lamas as spiritual harmful it is better for the monastic places when there are restrictions. Every community has the right to set up rules which protects their freedoms and a healthy spiritual environment. You can label this as "persecution" but this doesn't turn the actions they take to protect themselves into actual persecution.

HHDL is not the only one who sees Shugden worship as harmful and advises against it. Restrictions were made also by Purchog Jampa Rinpoche, a very high lama of Sera Je Monastery and an incarnation of Maitreya Buddha, wrote against the practice of Shugden in the Monastery’s constitution.

So there is much more complex background and understanding than the black-and-white propaganda of WSS and some Shugden followers suggest.

To make it short. It is you and some others who judge and label the difficulties involved regarding this controversial deity and the actions which were and are undertaken to reduce its influence as "persecution" "actions beyond description" "civil misdeeds" and so on. Others refer to the violent and sectarian nature of that practice, famous for killing those who "corrupt" the Gelug school by practising also other's traditions, in fact seeing this as "religious persecution" and lack of freedom.

Phrasing and labelling is a main tool in wars. As I know both sides quite well my opinion is the labelling and phrasing of most Shugden followers is more superstition/projection than based on facts. Your comments here and the use of words of WSS at their websites mainly aim to provoke strong emotions, and tend to victimize oneself and blaming the Dalai Lama. By this abusive language common sense is undermined, by this proper discrimination is undermined, by this no wisdom can arise. This is not what I follow. Best wishes. TP

Dougal
04 September 2008 at 12:17

Tenzin -

without doubt, there have been perpetrators and victims on both sides. this is because neither side has a monopoly of deluded individuals and neither side has a monopoly of high Lamas and other wise individuals. this is because there now exists, in everybody's eyes, a major schism in the Sangha: inevitably there will be misdeeds and suffering on both sides.

the DL claims that it is Dorje Shugden who is to blame, being by nature sectarian. the WSS and others claim that it is in fact the Dalai Lama's actions that are sectarian.

so my question to you, Tenzin, is this:

did anything like this irresolvable conflict, this deep schism that's causing widespread pain and disharmony, exist anywhere, within or outside the monasteries, *before* the Dalai Lama banned this practice in 1996?

yes or no?

Tenzin Peljor
04 September 2008 at 21:14

This Shugden problem exist now since some centuries. However it was mainly pushed up by Pabongkha Rinpoche and some of his followers. Originally it was installed to undermine the great 5th Dalai Lama. It had no significance until Pabongkha lama appeared. The 13th Dalai Lama was an opponent as well. But only after the death of the 13th Dalai Lama in which Shugden rejoiced (!) and after Pabongkha broke his promise to the 13th Dalai Lama to stop its propagation and spread it even more than previously, these actions build the basis for all the problems involved. If he had kept his promise there wouldn't have been a problem at all. But he broke it and relied on his own perception not on the 13th Dalai Lama.

One of my Kagyue teacher said: this is what Tibetans do: they revere their high masters, Padamasamhava or HHDL, but ignore their advices. Then they receive many problems because they do just not listen and follow their own ideas. (He added some stories about this. Although he didn't mention Shugden, I guess, this story belongs also to this category.)

Not only the advice of the 13th Dalai Lama regarding Shugden was not followed by Pabongkha, but also his activities to open Tibet, his reforms etc were undermined (mainly by the conservative Gelugoas and the aristocrats). His prediction letter, were he warned about the dangers Tibet is faced with again was unheard and only remembered when the warnings found its final fulfilment by the taking over by the Chinese.

Later, sadly, the young 14th Dalai Lama was introduced in that practice. A circumstance I feel as quite disrespectful keeping in mind what the positions, regarding that spirit, of the 5th and 13th were. It is also clear that the lineage of HHDL has a longer history than those of Shugden and that the benefit Tibetans received from HHDL are far more than what some may have got from worshipping Shugden. It is also a clear sign of power struggle of conservative Gelugpas that they wished to replace Nechung (bound by Padmasambhava) by Shugden (about whom is unclear when and who has bound him) .

Due to the exile situation in India and the weakness of the Tibetans in their exile situation, and that many other high Gelug lamas stayed in Tibet, the influence of Trijang Rinpoche became bigger. Introducing a special powerful new deity may be have met needs for those Gelugpas in exile. By this a recently marginal practice became more and more widespread. According to a witness even in the 80's Zong Rinpoche gave at Manjushri Institute (UK) the "samaya" - while conferring a Shugden empowerment - "not to touch Nyingma scriptures". When HHDL started for the sake af ALL Tibetans, not only for some Gelugpas, to install Nyingma rituals, Zimed Rinpoche published his most sectarian book. This was clearly a thread to the Dalai Lama. So he had to act. Him was left no choice. For more details see Dreyfus's research:

http://www.tibet.com/dholgyal/shugden-origins.html

At that time the Gelugpas were already divided by a new practice which was married to a cult to establish the supremacy of the Gelug school and to reduce the influences of other Buddhist schools. The complete Tibetan society was already divided because Nyingmas fear Shugden and see him as a demon and Kayguepas see him also as a negative force. What became the central element recently is a source of fear for those of other schools but not only that...

Shugden was also famous to kill the own followers when they practiced other schools - especially Nyingma. What a mess.

If there is an earthquake you can not only view the present signs of the eruption when you wish to really understand it and to be protected next time. Every earthquake has its history and causes and conditions. Likewise the boil of sectarianism - which is what really divides and harms - was ripe to burst. You can not simplistic refer to the bursting while ignoring the history, causes and conditions. If you do you act one-sided and narrow minded. From this not much understanding will arise.

So there is a long history of opposition of Shugden worship, the wise warned about its danger, especially the 5th and 13th and now the 14th Dalai Lama, who is supported in his view by the highest Lamas of the other Tibetan schools, by the Ganden tripa, the abbots and the vast majority of Gelug monks and nuns. It could be better to follow the wise, the 13th Dalai Lama was right with his predictions of Tibetan's future disaster, why he should fail in being able to judge the falsity or dangers of Shugden worship?

In deed from my and others' perspective what HH the 14th DL did was the brave deed of a real Buddhist master (Bodhisattva) and it protects a lot. He followed also the longer tradition/lineage of the Dalai Lamas, common sense, investigations, and based his discriminations on the perspective of the majority. He is not involved in Gelug party policies. Also this towers him above other masters. That those who still cling on that practice are unhappy is understandable. But for this unhappiness one can not blame the Dalai Lama but the own clinging.

Buddhism could live more than 2200 years without Shugden and it will continue to exist without him.

Your tricky question is based on a narrow minded view, it is far more complex than you suggest. I hope my reply makes this point clear. Best wishes.

Dougal
04 September 2008 at 23:28

ah. so all the suffering, division and schism that has arisen since the Dalai Lama's ban is the fault of the banned, rather than he who bans.

thank goodness you're a monk, and not a Judge of rape cases.

Dougal
05 September 2008 at 00:17

ok, Tenzin -

my point above stands, but the ad hominem was a cheap shot and i apologise. i'll admit to becoming a bit frustrated with you - i feel like i'm trying to reason with an intelligent but psychotic friend! however, your reply to my question deserves a better response from me, so here goes:

DS practitioners hold a different view to the one you expound here, backed up by the DL and some of the other high Lamas you refer to (not all - i believe some of those who publicly uphold the DL's view privately disagree). we have our own doctrinal reasons for this. so we will never agree with the DL's view, and he will never agree with ours. there is no reason why this should cause a problem. we also do not agree with some views of Bon practitioners, or Chrstian practitioners, and they do not agree with somee of ours, but this is no cause for disharmony.

it is within his right, even his duty, for the DL to make clear his own views to his disciples, and to advise them to follow them. it is even within his rights and responsibilities to impose restrictions on those who wish to enter into samaya with him, or on those who wish to live within any monastery or nunnery of which he may be abbot or spiritual director, as does any abbot or spiritual director, such as Geshe Kelsang.

none of this would be cause for disharmony or division within the Buddhist community. it's possible some may disagree and become unhappy, but this would tend to be a minority, and everyone would see them as such and understand, like with your protégés, the disgruntled NKT Survivors.

however, the Dalai Lama has gone far, far beyond the reach of his rights and his responsibilities. as we have repeatedly shown, he has banned the practice throughout the entire Tibetan sangha, the Tibetan lay community, and even some western Sangha communities now. he has LIED about this ban on record. (how can you square this with your conscience?) he has knowingly used his influence and the power of his speech and fame to create and to fan the flames of a witch-hunt.

THIS is what's wrong. it's the manner of his banning the practice: the totalitarian - and yes, i say this to you, from the DDR - methods employed. it is the religious dictatorship - FAR beyond the scope of responsibility of a religious leader - that we object to and demonstrate against.

to say that Shugden practitioners are left to practise alone if they so wish is a bare-faced lie, Tenzin, just as the Dalai Lama is lying when he smiles and talks of "advice" and "freedom to choose" to starry-eyed western journalists.

he'll win his court case, i have no doubt. i have serious reservations about Kundeling and the whole idea of taking this before a court at this stage. but this does not excuse his behaviour.

whatever you think of Shugden practice - and i think that we'll never agree on ths - we should be able to agree to differ, you and I, and the Dalai Lama and the Shugden practitioners equally. there is no reason for disharmony. the disharmony comes *only* from the Dalai Lama's overreaching ban, and the disgusting methods employed by his government to enforce his wishes.

keep your history, Tenzin - i'm honestly not interested. it's the suffering of living beings now and in the future that i care about. it is within the Dalai Lama's power to stop this suffering, almost overnight if he so chose. instead, he chooses to do the exact opposite.

Dougal
05 September 2008 at 00:31

to clarify: in my penultimate sentence "this suffering" refers to the present schism. the DL has the power to stop the suffering caused by the schism, not ALL the suffering of living beings!

Friendoftruth
05 September 2008 at 04:56

Tenzin Peljor:

You are repeating almost word by word the net of untrue statements made by the Dalai Lama's team of soi-disant academic researchers. Your repeating is done with a good skill with words, but that does not make what you are saying true.

Let me tell you just two reasons (rtag) why I know for sure that what the Dalai Lama and his followers are giving the world and you as historical truth are just manipulations of historical gossip and plain inventions.

FIRST REASON

The Dalai Lama is saying that there was no ban on the practice of Dorje Shugden, only his good advice.

Now, such untrue statement is so gross that it does not even require answer. Unless you were born in the last two decades, all the rest of us are witnesses of the ban.

A simple inference (jepak) will tell you that someone who dares distort the truth of present time history will do anything with past time history, anything, that is, that suits his purpose.

In Buddhism one has to use logic.

If what he says about the present is not true, everything else that he says and you repeat as historical truth falls, explodes like a kid's balloon hit by a thorn.

SECOND REASON

If the first reason used inference, this one is just plain direct perception.

You say that even the Kagyupas considered our holy Buddha Protector Dorje Shugden a negative force.

My dear Tenzin, let me tell you that the most revered and loved holy Kalu Rinpoche, a famous Kagyupa Lama, gave the initiation of Dorje Shugden to a friend of mine. So much for negative force.

_____________________

I have many things to say, but enough!

We don't have to talk so much about religious things.

As I said many times, it's non of your business the nature of the Deity, non of the Dalai Lama's business.

Whether he liked the holy Protector or not, it was not his right to persecute the practitioners and create a forced schism in the Sangha. This is not Buddhist. And what he did transgresses the laws of the world.

That the world does not want to see it so far, because it's so painful to recognize that one was mistaken, well, that is something else. But to use political power to establish a system of religious and civic persecution goes against the laws of religion and the world.

________________________

And I just remembered that in Southern India, the Dorje Shugden monks that have been forced to live in a ghetto are being helped by a Nyingmapa Lama that opened for them the stores and whatever they needed in the camp where he has influence, in total opposition to the Dalai Lama's orders. So much for the inimity among Dorje Shugden and the Nyingmapas.

Dear Tenzin! I don't have time to go on, but thank you for the opportunity!

Tenzin Peljor
05 September 2008 at 13:44

"You can not discuss with a fundamentalist without becoming yourself a fundamentalist." - saying of a Hindu master

There is nothing more to add.

About Shugden fundamentalists, see these thoughts:

http://info-buddhism.com/Western_Shugden_Society_unlocked.ht...

Dougal
05 September 2008 at 15:53

what is fundamentalist about the maxims: "agree to differ and "live and let live", Tenzin?

what's fundamentalist about demonstrating to oppose religious intolerance?

what's fundamentalist about us disagreeing with your teacher, the Dalai Lama?

your thoughts are your own, and you're welcome to them - but don't expect them to go unchallenged if you choose to make them public.

thermostatic
05 September 2008 at 18:01

Tenzin Peljor gives a very scholarly and intellectual history of the Dalai Lama-Dorje Shugden controversy. Yet he seems to believe that there is such a thing as an independent, objective history. But such a thing cannot be for it would contradict Buddhas' teachings on emptiness. To assert an objective history is to contradict Buddha's teachings.

Even Westerners understand that history is merely an interpretation from the point of view of the political interests of those making the interpretation. That is what history is.

Lama Yeshe once said that to intellectualize the dharma is to abuse it and lose sight of its purpose. I'm sorry, Peljor, but your account seems too intellectual for me, and the fact you seem to present it as an objective account means that either as a Buddhist or historian I cannot take it too seriously.

Friendoftruth
05 September 2008 at 18:53

Tenzin Peljor,

I should now reclaim your disciples, following the ancient ways of Indian Dharma.

Just tell them to write a message to me.

:-)

Duldzin
06 September 2008 at 13:51

Lets keep an investigative mind to explore the issues at hand;

Over the past 400 years High Sakya and Gelug Lamas (including the Dalai Lama's tutor Trijiang Rinpoche - who has written extensive commentaries on the practice of Dorje Shudgen and still continues to practice Dorje Shugden in his current incarnation) have been devout Dorje Shugden practitioners. These lamas are beyond samsara, Bodhisattvas who incarnate repeatedly in human form to lead us out of samsara. They are not concerned about politics but with the ultimate liberation from samsara- the cycle of suffering. Were they worshipping an evil spirit?

Dorje Shudgen is regarded by his practitioners as the same mental continuum of Wisdom Buddha of Manjushiri and JesongKhapa. If you look at the form of Dorje Shudgen - he reveals the complete path to enlightenment. Let me explain:

He wears a monks robes to indicate pure moral discipline is the foundation for spiritual path, his wisdom sword indicates the need to cut through self grasping ignorance -the root of samsara, his heart of compassion which he holds in his right hand , indicates his conventional Bodhichitta, the snow lion he rides on indicates the four fearlessness of a Buddha and so forth. Simply meditating on the Mandala of Dorje Shugden and his form can lead to many realisations of Sutra and tantra such as renunciation, compassion and emptiness. I know this from personal experience, because I am a Dorje Shudgen practitioner. How can a deity that reveals the complete path to enlightenment be an evil spirit! Once again a logical fallacy. Also Buddha's doctrine on emptiness teaches us that whether someone is a Buddha or a Mara is entirely dependent on our minds.

The HH Dalai Lama has given two reasons for banning the practice of Dorje Shugden;

a) It affects his life and well-being b)it affects the Tibetan cause. If Dorje Shudgen is really is an 'evil spirit/demon/worldly god' how can it affect the HH Dalai Lama - who is said to be the incarnation of Buddha Avalokiteshvara. When BuddhaShayamuni was about to attain enlightenment, Devaputra mara tried to obstruct his spiritual progress by throwing weapons at him but Buddha transformed the weapons into flowers through his meditation on love. After-all the HH Dalai Lama is said to be an enlightened being- the Buddha of Compassion. Why can't he do the same? Buddha has taught that for a Buddhist there are no external enemies simply our internal enemies of delusions and this applies to the so called 'evil spirits' (if that is what the Dalai Lama regards Dorje Shugden to be) - who were once our mothers too.

To be fair to the Dalai Lama, he has never self- proclaimed that he is an enlightened being. He is in reality a politician (a skilful -one at that too )using his spiritual authority for political and worldly aims. I am sure his oracle Nechug (who is infact a worldly spirit and well- known for getting predictions wrong - such as Tibet will be free in 2000) has had a large part to play in this. In fact there are sources that reveal that it is through Nechug's influence the HH Dalai Lama's mind towards the englightened Dorje Shugden changed. Afterall - it is with Dorje Shugden's help that the Dalai Lama escaped from Tibet and Dalai Lama himself was a devout practitioner of Dorje Shugden until the age of 50.

Just because someone opposes the Dalai Lama's actions of destroying many people's spiritual lives does not mean they are in league with the Chinese. Making the link between the two is an undoutable logical fallacy and a result of propaganda. What the Chinese have done to the Tibetan people is despicable to say the least. However, although they may have harmed and killed Tibetans, they never destroyed the unity of the Tibetans nor their rich spiritual heritage. The ban against the practise of Dorje Shugden instigated by the Dalai Lama has done exactly this. Tibetans are turning on Tibetans. This is really sad and heart breaking. (If you are unsure of what I am talking about - please watch the documentary called 'the dalai Lama and dorje Shudgen' in You tube)

History tells us that politics and religion never mix and what is happening is a clear indication of why they don't.

thermostatic
06 September 2008 at 17:36

Chelvi - au contraire - history tells us politics and religion do mix. It's just that they always produce repressive governments like those of Iran, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, the Sharia states of Nigeria, to name just a few - and Tibet-in-Exile.

Religion mixed in politics is always the enemy of the people - as it can and usually is used to justify any form of injustice and oppresssion. The position of the Dalai Lama is an anachronism. It should be abolished, replaced by representative government and religious influence extracted from all state functions.

shaza
06 September 2008 at 20:46

Hi Friendoftruth,

"And then look: here are our Lamas. You probably don’t know who was Pabongka Deche Nyingpo, Trijang Dorjechang, Domo Geshe Rinpoche, Zong Rinpoche, Rabten Rinpoche, Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tharchin, and all the others. Their hearts were an ocean of love and compassion, of blissful wisdom. They were friends to all beings, to all religions, to all Buddhists. Now the Press and the Academia are repeating the Dalai Lama’s calumny: that he banned the Protector of their lineage because it promotes a sectarian mind, because our greatest Gelugpa Lamas were sectarian. "

Yes, Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tharchin was a good lama, because he heeded the advice of DL and finally gave up the Shugden practice.

"And people use the "proofs" that the Dalai Lama has handed them, from obscure historic gossip that obviously he is manipulating. He manipulates events that ocurred under our eyes, as I showed above, what credibility can be lent to his version of history? Why don’t they look into what happened in our present time, where every action of those slandered Lamas, the ultimate Dorje Shugden people, contradicted and still contradict the Dalai Lama? "

It's your fantasy that the Dalai Lama could manipulate every single academic research on Shugden.

Read them.

Then, you will know Shugden is nothing but a ghost that Pabongka was trying to enact as the major protector of Gelug. That he broke his promise to the 13th Dalai Lama not to propitiate the ghost.

Don't just listen to me. Learn about the history.

Read Trijang's own words of Shugden's legitimacy in "Music Delighting the Ocean of Protectors". See if he can defend his case.

Many other spiritual masters advises against Shugden. Were they all fooled by the DL?

Read the biography of Sakya master Dzongshar Khyentse Chokyu Lodro. And if people can read Tibetan, they will know the Dzogchen master Chatral Rinpoche had adviced against Shugden written a book in 1978. Others who spoke against Shugden include HH Sakya Trizin, HH Sixteenth Karmapa, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu and HH Trulshig Rinpoche etc. Do they not know what they are talking about?

But then if you don't think the words of the 13th and the 14th Dalai Lamas carry any weight, then you will probably don't think much of these masters either.

Best

Shaza

Duldzin
06 September 2008 at 22:39

WHO SHOULD WE BELIEVE THE DALAI LAMA OR TRIJIANG RINPOCHE?

Shaza; I have taken an extract from Trijiang Rinpoche's commentaries to Dorje Shugden practice the 'Music Delighting the Ocean Of Protectors and this is exactly what he has to say about Dorje Shugden:

For those of us who don't know he is, Kyabje Trijang Dorjechang (1901-1981) is most the most important Gelugpa Masters of our present time and the Root Guru of most Gelugpa Lamas alive today, including the Dalai Lama. He relied upon Dorje Shugden as his Protector until his death. His current incarnation who lives in Switzerland continues to practice Dorje Shugden as he has done in previous lives.

Taken from Trijiang Rinpoche 'Music delighting the ocean of protectors':

"Some, who have fallen under the influence of the demon of the partisanship, think and say that this supreme Deity, the great emanated Dharmapala, is no different than an ordinary gyalpo or tsen spirit who has an inferior form as a result of being a monk or lay person who died with bad karma. Leave aside relying upon him as a Protector, they even deride others who do so. There are some, indeed, who echo such claims knowing nothing about it.

"Yet all this talk is nothing but babbling speculation. Why? Because this great guardian of the teachings is well known to be the precious supreme emanation from Drepung monastery'supper house, Dragpa Gyaltsen, arising in a wrathful aspect. The proof is unmistaken. Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen, as is taught in the lineage, was the final birth in a reincarnation lineage that included the Mahasiddha Birwawa, the great Kashmiri Pandit Shakya Shri, the omniscient Buton, Duldzin Dragpa Gyaltsen, Panchen Sonam Dragpa, and so forth; this is proven by valid scriptural quotation and reasoning. These great beings, from a definitive point of view, were already fully enlightened, and even to common appearances, every one of them was a holy being that attained high states of realization. What worse karma could there be than denying this and asserting that he was born in the preta (spirit) realm?

'Therefore, for holy beings it is not at all far-fetched that they might show themselves in a wrathful form out of the power of compassion and prayer for the sake of a special purpose, and it should be recognized that they are emanations of Buddha's inconceivable secret qualities. But for them to take birth as a sky-wandering preta through the force of negative throwing karma like an ordinary preta would be utterly impossible. To say it were possible would be to deny the validity of the natural law of cause and effect. Why? From the definitive point of view those holy beings are fully enlightened. Moreover, even from the common point of view they attained high states of realization in reliance upon guarding their moral disciplines as they would their eyes, from youth onwards throughout their lives. To say that a causal factor of pure ethical discipline could result in rebirth in a lower realm of existence would be to assert that actions performed could be wasted; that one could experience the results of actions not performed by oneself; and that such scriptural statements as "From generosity, wealth, from ethics, happiness, are invalid and so forth. As a consequence, one would be turning ones back on Buddha's teachings as a whole.

"Furthermore, from the definitive point of view, that these holy beings were already fully enlightened innumerable ages ago, is clear if one examines the accounts of their lives, and if one were to say that a fully enlightened being could take birth as an ordinary gyalpo or tsen spirit, then one would be asserting that degeneration is possible from the state of full enlightenment or that someone could be both fully enlightened and an ordinary preta at the same time! Or else, one would have to say that the accounts of those great beings lives are worthless. A mountain of absurd consequences, previously non-existent distorted ideas, would have to be accepted." – Trijiang Rinpoche

Duldzin
06 September 2008 at 22:42

WHO SHOULD WE BELIEVE; TRIJIANG RINPOCHE OR THE DALAI LAMA?

(Please refer to my post above for Trijiang Rinpoche's stance on the Dorje Shudgen issue.)

1) Trijiang Rinponche, an incarnate Lama, is considered to be an emanation of Buddha Amitabha. With the recognition (which Dalai Lama himself was part of)of his current incarnation who is living in Switzerland is further proof of his enlightened status – as we know only Buddhas and Bodhisattva’s who are beyond samsara, can choose their rebirth whereas the rest of us are thrust forward by our Karma to take rebirth in one of the six realms in Samsara.

2) However, we know that mistakes have been made where ‘tulkus’ (incarnates Lama’s ) have been wrongly identified for political/worldly reasons, by mistakes etc I would think the current Dalai Lama – is a classic example of this. So – in our current age we can’t simply rely on his recognition as an incarnate lama to prove his enlightened status. Instead we should look closely at his actions. If you do, it becomes clear that he performs exactly the same the actions of a Buddha and therefore he is a Buddha.

Buddhas have only one function – that is to lead suffering sentient beings out of Samsara. It is only out of their compassion they teach Dharma and reveal the path to enlightenment/liberation. Trijiang Rinpoche has dedicated his whole life to teaching pure Dharma (i.e not mixing Dharma with worldly concerns such as politics, power, manipulations etc) and it is directly through his kindness that we have Dharma in the West !!!Why? - because many of our current lamas in the western world were once his disciples.

So if you ask me who am I going to believe Trijiang Rinpoche or the Dalai Lama, for me it is simple – Trijiang Rinpoche for the following reasons;

1) He has dedicated his whole life to teaching Pure Dharma (i.e: not mixed with worldly concerns such as politics) and I am currently benefiting from his kindness because my root Guru is also one of his disciples. Dalai Lama – has taught NOTHING but pure dharma – Instead he has mixed Dharma with politics, Tibetan culture and worldly concerns. He has abused the kindness of his Guru by using the Dharma he learnt from Trijiang Rinpoche to increase his worldly status that he currently enjoys whilst engaging in the heinous action of causing a schism and destroying Pure Dharma from this world.

2) As mentioned earlier Trijiang Rinpoche’s actions are indicative of the actions of a Buddha , whereas Dalai Lama with his Hollywood celebrity status, guest editing Vogue, appearing Apple Mac adverts, his ‘political’ role in the world and in Tibet, his connections with CIA –are actions of a politician, who is currently using spirituality to further his political and worldly aims. In this respect – he is yet another power hungry world leader filled with worldly concerns masquerading as a spiritual master – who I have compassion for.

Please let us not be fooled by the Dalai Lama’s charisma or his worldly status. We have to check carefully whether his actions are in accordance with the Dharma – or that of a Bodhisattva - which he is supposed to be. Or at the very least – are his actions even in accordance with what he is supposed be champion of ‘human rights and religious freedom’. I THINK NOT! His actions with regards to this Dorje Shugden ‘controversy’ suggests otherwise. Please think for yourself and carefully consider the evidence that is in front of you – if you care to look.

Dougal
06 September 2008 at 22:47

alright Tenzin (sorry, "Shaza") -

all those great Lamas you list have a view that differs from ours, with our list of great Lamas.

so there's a difference of opinion.

so - shall we respect each other - agree to differ - practise our traditions whilst respecting everyone else's freedom to practise theirs?

in other words, shall we act like Buddhists?

or do you think it would be more fitting to instead issue bans and instigate witch-hunts against those we disagree with? use whatever political power we have to create an intolerable social pressure to force them to break their samaya? create the most catastrophic schism that has ever been seen in the Buddhist Sangha?

which would Buddha do, do you think?

and what's your "Buddha of Compassion" doing?

his actions are a disgrace.

Orange
07 September 2008 at 04:48

Tenzin Peljor - Thank you from the bottom of my heart for all your posts throughout the years.

Why? Because the doubt you unleashed in my mind forced me to investigate my faith and my Guru.

The outcome of hours, days, weeks, nay months! spent on the web, talking to people, observing the situation, checking the Dharma I'm being taught, contemplating and meditating on all that actually produced the most wonderful fruit: Faith in my Guru.

And it most certainly is not the Dalai Lama.

I pray that one day you own writings will open your heart in the same way.

Tenzin Peljor
08 September 2008 at 11:56

Thank you orange and all NKTers, and Meindert for your efforts as well. What is your right is also my right, isn't it?

An overview on academic researches regarding the Dorje Shugden Controersy can be found here:

http://westernshugdensociety.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/academ...

My thoughts about Fundamentalism and Buddhism together with an extensive link section can be found here:

http://buddhism-and-fundamentalism.blogspot.com/

Thoughts about mixing Dharma with Politics can be found here.

http://westernshugdensociety.wordpress.com/2008/08/13/mixing...

A less partisan summery of the conflict can be found here:

http://info-buddhism.com/dorje_shugden_controversy.html

Dougal
08 September 2008 at 14:20

less partizan??

Tenzin, you - one of the most vehement, prolific and obsessive anti-Shugden/anti-NKT posters on the world web web, with your several, various anti websites and blogs (including info-buddhism.com and info-buddhismus.de) - "less partizan"???

:-D

my friend - that would be hilarious were it not for the fact that lying is a breach of your "Bhikkshu" vows.

Friendoftruth
09 September 2008 at 04:22

Dear Shaza,

I don't know if you are once more misinformed, and if you are, why do you go about repeating what you don't know? Or if you are just stating on purpose something that you know is not true. You say:

"Yes, Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tharchin was a good Lama, because he heeded the advice of DL and finally gave up the Shugden practice."

Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tharchin never gave up the Protector and until the end of his life he insisted that people should not go search for teachings elsewhere, when they had at home the pure teachings. In other words, he always opposed in the most open and stern way the religious view that lies behind the Protector issue: that of mixing all lineages of teachings and practices. In other words, until the end of his life he opposed the view of the Dalai Lama.

Permit me to assume that your views about all this are as accurate as the one you have about the holy Lama Khen Rinpoche.

You are absolutely right about Lamas starting to find fault in the holy Buddha Protector Dorje Shugden after the Dalai Lama started criticizing him. It's so good to be in good terms with those who possess the political and economic power. Don't ask me if I find fault in them: I practically never think about them directly, just pray for them every day like I do for every mother sentient being. But since you bring them to my mind, please do not ask me to approve them.

If you want to know about the supposedly testimonies of past voices against the Protector, please read the excellent explanation published in shugdensociety.info/ that will clarify the matter for you if you are not just following blindly the one who created this tragedy of Dharma.

shaza
09 September 2008 at 14:35

Hi Friendoftruth

-------------------------------------Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tharchin never gave up the Protector and until the end of his life he insisted that people should not go search for teachings elsewhere, when they had at home the pure teachings. In other words, he always opposed in the most open and stern way the religious view that lies behind the Protector issue: that of mixing all lineages of teachings and practices. In other words, until the end of his life he opposed the view of the Dalai Lama.

You are right, our sources certainly differ. And i agree it's important to set the record straight for Khen Rinpoche's reputation.

One observer says,"As for the precious Lama, Sermey Kensur Rinpoche, I'd like to set the record straight. Most of the great Geshes in the Gelukpa tradition in Sermey Kensur Rinpoche's generation received transmissions on that particular practice. When His Holiness spoke against it, Sermey Kensur Rinpoche took great cautions at not saying anything negative about anyone involved in the controversy. To my knowledge, he never passed that practice on (in compliance with His Holiness). And, additionally, one of Sermey Khen Rinpoche's close disciples, a Geshe from Australia, traveled all the way to New Jersey to ask Sermey Khen Rinpoche about whether or not he was complying with His Holiness' directive not to practice it. Sermey Khen Rinpoche told the Geshe that he did not practice it.

Therefore, this spurious rumor that apparently has been flying around about Sermey Kensur Rinpoche is not only destructive to the people who promote it, but it is also incorrect."

I will see if i can find any verifiable sources other than anecdotal accounts.

---------------------------------You are absolutely right about Lamas starting to find fault in the holy Buddha Protector Dorje Shugden after the Dalai Lama started criticizing him. It's so good to be in good terms with those who possess the political and economic power.

Not exactly.

The great Sakya master Dzongza Khyentse Chokyu Lodro (1893-1959) dispelled Shugden from Derge Gomchen decades before the Dalai Lama even abandoned the practice. He had strong misgivings about Pabongkha's aggressive sectarian moves in his days.

Also, it's presumptuous to even imply that all the great contemporary masters of our time deliberately lie about such issues because they give in to the influence of DL.

Best

Shaza

Geronimo
09 September 2008 at 22:26

Observations of the Dalia Lama's Family Stealing

Norbu Family takes the money.

Oh negative energy abounds out there even now. Kunyang and Jigme took funds and hundreds of thousands of them for years

for their own personal use. They also took money out of the equity of the buildings out there--well over a million dollars supposedly

from that alone. Then the bank who hadn't been paid in forever foreclosed and it went up to one day before a sheriffs sale before

H.H. was able to get the money together to stave the banks off for a month or something. Then in the end he had to ask four

very wealthy people he knew personally to save it, which they did, by paying off all of the loans. Meanwhile Kunyang and Jigme

still drive around town in very expensive automobiles, still have their restaurants and lots of rental property. So in 2003 I think it was

the entire place was re-organized and the Norbu family had to sign off of everything out there. So Norbu has been and was being taken

care of by monks and lay tibetan men or he would have been in a nursing home. The house they built for themselves in the back part of

those 108 acres I believe Kunyang no longer lived there even. So yeah, bad blood as they say.

I am the only person around here that gave significant money to the center over the years that is still around. And I left town and only came and went now and then. For a long time the Norbus and (Mr. Norbu was not sick at this time) kept the gates locked and you couldn't even go out there.

But during those years I always figured he needed that privacy. I mean you know what a life, made him kind of crazy in my opinion.

When all the re-organization happened, Dalai Lama appointed Arji Rinpoches to head the center. In short, it's been more of the same and worse.

Arji 's story is difficult to be sure, but he is a real dictator and doesn't like women except to be the oh the great one! Oh kow tow! You know how it is...a very male oriented society even if the women in Tibet had a measure of more freedom that those in the rest of Asia--he was tight with

the communists for years after his release from prison camp for supposedly 16 years. You know the whole story is never told...

So more of the same, the 'public' will not be allowed to attend the traditional cremation...Such bs. Compare that to little Lama Yesche, who didn't even hold a gesche degree but had more flourishing centers world wide than just about any one else! He wanted all people who could come from all over the world to attend his cremation--his final teachings. He died at age 49. So it goes with the Norbu family. Kunyang is out there along with Jigme strutting around 'in control' for a short time again. Never learned, just never learned. Meanwhile Jetsun Pema was sent immediately by H.H. to supervise the arrangements, and of course Pare Rinpoche is there. I think H.H. sent Pare rinpoche for this purpose I really do, to see his brother out!

Friendoftruth
10 September 2008 at 03:56

I already answered to you in another post so I'm just briefly going to remind you that the Dalai Lama's side constant slander makes any new communication from that side sterile.

Khen Rinpoche didn't have any close disciple from Australia. Close disciples by the way didn't need to ask him the obvious, so the whole story is a fabrication.

There's no close disciple of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tharchin that would've dared imagine that he could betray his samaya with Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. So again, please stop talking nonsense.

Here we are talking about the suffering that the Dalai Lama is inflicting to innocent people, the rest are pitiful attempts to protect his harmful, unjustifiable behaviour.

shaza
10 September 2008 at 07:35

Hi Friendoftruth,

-------------------------------------- "Khen Rinpoche didn't have any close disciple from Australia. Close disciples by the way didn't need to ask him the obvious, so the whole story is a fabrication."

well, i don't know, gimme something to believe you. Are you one of his close disciples?

----------------------------------------" There's no close disciple of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tharchin that would've dared imagine that he could betray his samaya with Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. So again, please stop talking nonsense. "

pure conjecture.

-----------------------------------------"Here we are talking about the suffering that the Dalai Lama is inflicting to innocent people, the rest are pitiful attempts to protect his harmful, unjustifiable behaviour."

Not exactly. It's a thread about why the Shugden practice should be destroyed IMHO.

Even if the DL retracted his denounciation, i will still object to the Shugden practice as advised by all the spiritual masters then and now.

Maybe you should include in your prayers all the following masters who have condemned Shugden if it is indeed what you are doing:

Gelug:13th and 14th Dalai Lama

Kagyu:HH Sixteenth Karmapa

Sakya:Dzongsar Khyentse Chokyi Lodro (expelled Shugden from the Sakya monastery Derge Gomchen); HH Sakya Trizin

Nyingma:HH Minling Terchen; Chatral Rinpoche (renowned Dzogchen master who wrote a book in 1978 refuting Shugden); Kyabje Trulshig Rinpoche

the list goes on.

And to Meindert Gorter, if you truly want to know why Shugden is not OK in Tibetan Buddhism, I suggest you go investigate in that direction and see if what Kundeling Lama says holds any water.

Best

Shaza

Angie
10 September 2008 at 16:26

Dear Shaza and Friend of Truth,

I cannot see how whether or not Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tharchin did or did not stop his DS practice could actually speak for whether the practice itself is suitable or not.

If my own guru were to ask me to stop a certain practice, I would do so immediately, and with strong faith. So, I am sure Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tharchin is a good lama for heeding the advise of his guru. This is good Guru devotion!

But I don't see how this makes Dorje Shugdan inherently bad, or a bad practice?

AdamAW
10 September 2008 at 17:40

Dear Friend of Truth,

I have made this comment on the other blog but you may not be reading it. Your essay is brilliant. I think that it may be the most clear and moving piece of writing on this subject that we have to date. I am requesting that you submit it to the WSS and give them permission to publish it on their site so that many more people can benefit from it.

Best Wishes.

AdamAW
10 September 2008 at 17:53

Dear Friend of Truth,

perhaps I should let you know that I have copied your essay and am planning to distribute it to all of my friends. I hope that this is Ok with you and not an infringement of copyright or anything like that. I shouldn't think so but best to check.

Best Wishes

Geronimo
10 September 2008 at 20:23

Tenzin Peljor

A pig with lip stick, is still a pig.

A man in robes is not a lama

Just a man in robes

Unless he is practicing the Precepts of Lord Buddha

He is just a man with robes,neither a monk,

nor a lama.

This makes you a lying man in robes,

not a monk nor a lama,

Practice the Precepts of Lord Buddha

Be a monk or a Lama

Geronimo
11 September 2008 at 05:09

Dalia Lama, Samdong, Tenzin Peljor,

It's Time to Mend your Ways!

Right Away Without Delays!

Because as they say,

"A pig with lipstick,

Is Still a pig!"

A man in robes is not a monk nor a lama!

Just a man in robes!

Unless a Man in Robes ,

Is Actually Practicing the Precepts of Lord Buddha

He is just a man in robes,

neither a monk,

nor a lama.

Just a Man!

This Makes All of You!

Just Men, In Robes, Lying!

Not a monk, nor a lama!

Practice the Precepts of Lord Buddha!

Become Monks or Lamas,

or

Just Be Anyone!

Trying to Practice,

To Follow the Way!

The Perfect Precepts,

Of Lord Buddha's Way!

Practice The Precepts!

Say the Truth!

Redeem Yourself!

Of

Your Self-Cherishing Ways!

"Peace & Blessings"

are

" Every One's Rights!"

"Confederation of Shambala Warriors"

Council Of Vajra Elders

Thomas Canada

shaza
11 September 2008 at 11:04

Hi Angie

------------------------------------------------"But I don't see how this makes Dorje Shugdan inherently bad, or a bad practice?"

Shugden is bad because he's a pernicious spirit enthoned by Pabongkha, the fountainhead of the Shugden cult, as the wisdom protector of Gelug. Problem is a worldly spirit is never a proper object of refuge. That's why calling him "Wisdom Buddha" or "Wisdom Protector" is wrong. And within the class of Gyalpo, Dolgyal is the worst kind.

The fact that Pabongkha went behind 13th Dalai Lama's back to propitiate this spirit and enact it as the major protector of Gelug is a source of concern for practitioners today.

Shugden has no basis in Sutra, Tantra and was never enlisted by Je Tshongkhapa to protect his teachings.

The current Dalai Lama worshipped Shugden as a worldly spirit from 1951 to the early 70's. One of the very first hints he got about the dark side of Shugden is from Senior Tutor HH Kyabje Ling Rinpoche (probably before the Yellow Book scandal, correct me if im wrong).

Dalai Lama wanted to received a certain Nyingma teaching and asked HH Ling Rinpoche advice. And Ling Rinpoche was a bit worry and cautioned the Dalai Lama about the sectarian nature of Shugden. And the rest is history.

Best

Shaza

Geronimo
11 September 2008 at 19:13

How would you know?

Sound like you are just pulling all of your stuff out of your Yurt!

Were you present at any of these conversations or just pulling it out of the rewritten history of Tibet Archives.

So many scribes, so little time.

shaza
11 September 2008 at 19:36

yeah isn't that amazing!

Geronimo
11 September 2008 at 21:11

Although we should criticize China's censored media, the Tibet riots revealed some troubling blindness among our own media. While the causes of Tibetan unrest are complex, it is clear that the March riots were started by Tibetan protesters and that they were quite violent. Indeed, they were violent enough to lead the Dalai Lama to threaten resignation if his followers did not stop the violence.

Since "violent Tibetan" does not fit our stereotype, our media fixed the news. While Chinese media showed extensive footage of violence and interviews with Chinese and Tibetan victims, Western media manipulated images and even showed footage from other countries (Nepal and India) in order to paint a picture of ruthless oppression by China's government.

Chinese media exposed the Western media manipulations, forcing the BBC, N-TV and RTL-TV to apologize. Not surprisingly, the American media has yet to acknowledge ts bending of the truth. The point is that while the Chinese know their media is censored and do not trust it, we believe our news is objective and end up being righteous while misinformed.

If we had seen the violence of the Tibet riots, our condemnations may be more nuanced. Quite simply, no government, democratic or not, allows such violence within its own borders. Providing peace and stability, even by force if necessary, is what governments do.

Large and powerful countries tend to have regions that were not always part of the country. In America, we proudly call it Manifest Destiny and never trouble ourselves with how we got much of California and Texas from Mexico, never mind the rest of the country and our sordid history with Native Americans.

On the Chinese flag there are five stars commonly interpreted as representing the five major ethnic groups in China. One of those stars represents Tibetans. China's claim to Tibet spans centuries and it is a claim that the United States and the rest of the world recognizes.

To Chinese people, removing one of those stars is akin to removing one of our states, such as Hawaii. Our history with the native people of Hawaii has been relatively brief and quite brutal and there exists a tenacious independence movement. Still, there is no talk in the mainstream media and among the Hollywood celebrity activist circuit of Hawaiian independence, not to mention Puerto Rican independence or the American Indian movement.

Government repression of these movements also escapes media scrutiny. Before we lecture China, we may want to tend to our own backyard.

Amid cries of "free Tibet" and calls for religious freedom, the question is what does freedom have to do with Tibet? Under the Dalai Lama, was there religious freedom? Was there any freedom? Actually, no.

We would recognize the Dalai Lama's Tibet as a medieval religious theocracy with a small elite class served by a large and oppressed serf population. The Dalai Lama ruled a region with no religious freedom, no political freedom, indeed, no human rights of any kind. The rulers were ruthless. Torture and mutilation were widespread. Poverty and starvation were rampant. It was Shangri-La only in the West's imagination.

Richard Gere, Sharon Stone and other Hollywood devotees may be surprised at their idol's current positions. The Dalai Lama condemns abortion and homosexuality while accepting prostitution. For decades the Dalai Lama secured millions of dollars from the CIA and runs his government in exile like a monarch.

Despite its shortcomings, Chinese rule has provided the Tibetan region with infrastructure and public schooling and provides Tibetans with widespread opportunities and a degree of personal freedom unheard of under the feudal theocracy of the dalai lamas.

China is far from perfect and deserves honest scrutiny and criticism. To expect China not to act like a large and powerful country, however, and to throw stones from our glass house, proves nothing but our own ignorance.

Geronimo
12 September 2008 at 05:42

10

Sep

08Open Letter to Robert Thurman from the Western Shugden Society

post info

By goldenmala

Categories: western shugden society

Tags: bob thurman, buddhist taliban, dorje shugden, dorje shugden controversy, gelugpa, kagyu, nyingma, robert thurman, sakya, sectarianism, shugden

This letter was posted on the Western Shugden Society website today:

An Open Letter

To Robert Thurman,

We the Western Shugden Society are writing this letter regarding your previous public statement that Shugden people are sectarian, naming them “the Buddhist Taliban”; and your recent public statement that the Western Shugden Society protestors are “working for the Chinese”.

As you know, Shugden people want to practice the Gelug tradition purely, without mixing with the Nyingma tradition. Because of this the Dalai Lama has said to Shugden people that they are sectarian. In truth, the Nyingmapa also want to practice their Nyingma tradition purely without mixing with the Gelug tradition; and it is the same for the Sakyapa and Kagyupa. So according to the Dalai Lama’s view, the Nyingmapa, Sakyapa and Kagyupa are also sectarian, but he only says that Shugden people are sectarian. In reality he is lying.

If you, Robert Thurman, are not yourself lying, then you must show your evidence to prove your public statements: that Shugden people are sectarian, “the Buddhist Taliban” as you named them; and that the Western Shugden Society is working for the Chinese. You should show your evidence publicly through the internet before 25th October 2008. If your evidence does not appear by this date then we will conclude that you have lied publicly and are misleading people.

Sincerely,

Western Shugden Society

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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1 Thom

September 12, 2008 at 1:02 am

Inside the Tibetan Mongolian Cultural Center with the Dalia Lama’s family having fun.

In 1979 in Bloomington,Indiana. We built the Tibetan Cultural Center at the request of the Dalia Lama, to act as a respository for the Vast Treasure Trove of Knowledge. Which at that time, the Cultural Revolution appeared to have litle chance of surviving with any kind of substance.

Before the fame of Daliai Lama was world renowned and he was teaching to maybe 30 or 40 people and no security guards or admission fees. Just one on one! Now this was very nice and dharma flourished in Southern Indiana and Wisconsin.

Years later in 1996. Everything changed with his stepping over the boundaries of our differing cultures by violating others Religious Beliefs and Persecuting only one of the 1,000 Dieties of the Mahayanna Buddhist Pathenon, Shri Dorje Shugden. The same that the 5th took measures to eradicate before seizeing absolute control over Tibet, with the full power of the Mongolian Cavalry slaughtering his opposition.

I do know that the stuff that is going on in the name of Lord Buddha and Tibet, has nothing to do with The Teachings of Buddha ,and it should not be confused as the same.

The Lamas bought over 20 Tibetan Mahayanna Buddhist Monks. We proceeded to build Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang Rinpoche first Monastery in the Americas. He dedicated this monastery to the Preservation of the Teachngs of Je T’songkhapa.

Gonsar Tulku enshrined Shri Dorje Shugden to be the Protector of Dagom Geden Tensung Ling Monastery, forever,

Just as Lord Buddha said, “The Wheel Of Dharma, will turn to the Land of the Red Men” where it will flourish.

It would be normal for all Buddhist Practioners to rejoice in the establishment of the dharma in the West.

Instead, we are attacked for Preserving the Teachings and Humiliated in the media as Devil Worshippers.

This year has shown the true face of Tibet’s Ancient Tribalism conflicting values and Priciples with Modern Nation States.

Now, we have people like Taliban Bob Thurman appointed to sit as Chair of the Tibetan Mongolian Cultural Center. Where the reports from the locals go like this and the liars and deceivers as Bob and his compatriots continue to run amuck and steal what they can, while they can get away with it.

“Oh negative energy abounds out there even now. Kunyang and Jigme Norbu took funds and hundreds of thousands of them for years for their own personal use. They also took money out of the equity of the buildings out there–well over a million dollars supposedly from that alone. Then the bank who hadn’t been paid in forever foreclosed and it went up to one day before a sheriffs sale before would have confiscated the proeperty.

H.H. was able to get the money together to stave the banks off for a month or something. Then in the end he had to ask four very wealthy people he knew personally to save it, which they did, by paying off all of the loans. Meanwhile Kunyang and Jigme still drive around town in very expensive automobiles, still have their restaurants and lots of rental property. So in 2003 I think it was

The entire place was re-organized and the Norbu family had to sign off of everything out there. So Norbu has been and was being taken care of by monks and lay tibetan men or he would have been in a nursing home. The house they built for themselves in the back part of those 108 acres .

I believe Kunyang no longer lived there even. So yeah, bad blood as they say. Jetsun Pema showed up and hair went up on end with her sister-in-law.

I am the only person around here that gave significant money to the center over the years that is still around. And I left town and only came and went now and then. For a long time the Norbus and (Mr. Norbu was not sick at this time) kept the gates locked and you couldn’t even go out there.

But during those years I always figured he needed that privacy. I mean you know what a life, made him kind of crazy in my opinion.

When all the re-organization happened, Dalai Lama appointed Arji Rinpoches to head the center. In short, it’s been more of the same and worse.

Arji ’s story is difficult to be sure, but he is a real dictator and doesn’t like women except to be the oh the great one! Oh kow tow! You know how it is…a very male oriented society even if the women in Tibet had a measure of more freedom that those in the rest of Asia .

He was tight with the communists for years after his release from prison camp for supposedly 16 years. You know the whole story is never told…

So more of the same, the ‘public’ will not be allowed to attend the traditional cremation for Tagster Norbu.

Compare that to little Lama Yesche, who didn’t even hold a gesche degree but had more flourishing centers world wide than just about any one else! He wanted all people who could come from all over the world to attend his cremation–his final teachings. He died at age 49. So it goes with the Norbu family. Kunyang is out there along with Jigme strutting around ‘in control’ for a short time again. Never learned, just never learned. Meanwhile Jetsun Pema was sent immediately by H.H. to supervise the arrangements, and of course Pare Rinpoche is there. I think H.H. sent Pare rinpoche for this purpose I really do, to see his brother out!

This is the way Bod deals with the rustics in Indiana. He will do little but use it a podium to further lie and deceive the wide-eyed western people.

2 Thom

September 12, 2008 at 3:31 am

Defend the Dharmapala’s Monastery

Dagom GedenTensung Ling

Excerpts Herald Telephone Interviews

Thubten Norbu

Tibetan Mongolian Cultural Center

“The Dalai Lama has actually repudiated his own spiritual guide, which is, again, very un-Buddhist. The Dalai Lama himself offered prayers to Dorje Shugden for 40 years.

Yet now he repudiates him. And he won’t say why.”This is a worldly deity”.

The Dalai Lama’s elder brother, retired Indiana University professor Thubten J. Norbu, talked about the controversy at his home outside Bloomington. And his mind is somewhat clear about the Shugden dispute.

“This is a free country. If these people want to worship a ghost, they can worship a ghost.

But I believe this is a worldly deity and this is not Buddhism, you know”.

Norbu said he did not know why his brother, the Dalai Lama, turned against Shugden.

“He must have his reasons.

My brother is one to thoroughly study everything.

He knows what he is doing.”

He practiced Shugden himself, until 1995. When he also had to give up his practice to please his brothers’s wishes.

Thom Canada, who donated the 100-acre site in 1979 on the south of town that includes the cultural center and Norbu home, is now a supporter of the Shugden postion of religious freedom, and it’s beleagured practitioners.

He has donated land next to Cascades Park for a monastery accommodating Shugden worshippers and sees himself as a “rescue” resource for persecuted Shugden followers that endure suppression and violation of their Civil Rights from the Dalia Lama.

“I’ve gotten a death threat myself,” Canada said last week. “So when they say there is no persecution going on, don’t believe it. There are vigilantes out there who at least believe they are doing the Dalai Lama’s will. They told me ‘We’re going to kill you and we’re going to kill all the other lamas, one by one.’”

Bruce E. Wilson, who leads a small, third congregation of Tibetan Buddhism followers in Bloomington, says, “There is a Tibetan proverb that says you can’t have politics without religion and religion without politics. I think in the U.S. our great strength is the separation of church and state, and it’s not hard to see why.”

If there is one thing all factions agree on regarding the Shugden controversy it is the quintessentially Buddhist notion that each individual must seek his or her own answers and that no one should accept any one point of view simply because someone else does.

“Buddha said, ‘Monks, just as skilled persons, accept gold after testing it, by heating, cutting and rubbing it. Likewise, you should accept my words after examining them. Do not do so out of respect (for me),” Wilson recited.

I’m sure there’s quite a few Shugden practitioners who are attempting to remain silent about the Dalai Lama. Because of the West’s perception of him, in other words, they are acting and speaking for the wrong reasons, motivated out of self-interests and agendas, as well as pride.

Times have changed.

I cannot believe there is any discussions as to how polite we should be to the enemy of the Lineage?

I find it difficult to understand how anyone here cannot have a real understanding of a man.

Who claims to have the same mind continuum as the 5th & 13th Dalia lama.

Would not understand the depth of pain our Vajra Brothers suffered.

The 13th Dalia lama had their skins peeled from their bodies, very slowly over several days, until they succumbed, only 70_80 years ago.

Their cime was to place a piece of paper in Dalia lama shoe.

Imagine with Dalia lama admitted mind continuum.

As being exactly the same as the 5th & 13th Dalia lama

How much spite and scorn he has to hold for all of the centuries.

Even now in the light of day. He attempts the same now as those he flayed alive.

Only today,he uses false allegations and character assassination to

dismember his victims.

Dalia lama acts with much vengeful spite towards our brothers & Sisters and defamed our Teachers.

He is sick and his days are Very numbered.

The beauty of our position,as I see it.

Is we have truth and honesty on our side.

It doesn’t matter what they think about us at all.

Because we do not have to scheme and lie and try to trick anyone.

As they do.

I remember old Taliban Bob equating us to the Taliban, “Just like the Taliban”.

They had a full color photo of Dorje Shugden inside of Newsweek, and the story made Dorje Shugden look as alien to Mahayana Buddhism as a Catholic Cross would look like in a Mosque.

However they published a full color photo that made world circulation for everyone to get a glance of the Protector. Somehow they thought this made Shugden look different than theother 1,000 dieties of Mahayanna Buddhism. Twisted logic from Twisted Bob. Bob told me that he had taken over 800 LSD trips one night over a bottle of wine. That impressed me at the time.

I thought it rather a rash choice to make in defense of the Dalia lama to portray Shugden in

Newsweek.

I would have at that point in 1996_1999, thought if incredibly rude and ill-mannered to depict or reveal such intimate knowledge of Buddhism in a common tabloid as Bob choose to do.

But he choose to do as he does now. Make a fool out of himself

But that was then and not now. Now we know what it is and what to name it.Lies and Deceit!

They tried to tie murder wrap on Dragpa Gyaltesen, and it was thrown out of court.

But the stigma stuck in their repetoire of lying and deceitfulness

I figure we can unravel this package the same way it was wrapped up to begin with.

We need to continue to say the simple truth over and over and over again.

Call him whatever you want.

Because for too long people have been afraid to call him anything, other than your Holiness.

Well now, he no longer deserves or warrants any more respect than to call him Fred.

He is ordinary and does not practice the precepts.

No matter how much he sits and prays with Inter Faith Groups.

He is nothing more than a person like all the rest of us and is going through changes.

Once Dalia he realizes that he is an ordinary human.

He will be like the “Last Emperor of China”!

It’s just now we find that he is like a hungry ghost pursuing obsessions life time after life time vainly attempting to prove himself more adept, advanced and skilled than his superior, Dragpa Gyaltsen.

Whom he or his ministers stole his life force by shoving katas down his throat to cease his life functions and he became the Supreme Protector of The Dharma and provides each and every one of us the very best conditions of environment for us to mediate.

To achieve enlightenment and be happy all of the time. Sounds pretty scary to me.

What do you think?

Dalia’s ghost obsesses on one thing and one thing only.

Because his phantom has been unable to acccept his misdeeds.

That being when he decided to murder the Wisdom Buddha, Dragpa Gyaltsen.

I think of how the Hobbits rediscovered the ring and then one was killed and the other went on for hundreds of years in unimaginable isolation and suffering all deluded states imaginable self cherishing apparitions that blind him of his true state of guilt of murdering his friend to posses the ring . Thus enraptured with his delusions he flees from his mind’s judgement.

It causes me to reflect on this a little.

He wears the abhorrence of his crime similarly as in “The Portrait of Dorian Grey”, betrayed by his own mind’s evil nature.

Dalia lama carries this imprint of misdeed as a porter carries his load up a hillside.

He always stoops and not from humility.

But from the weight of carrying the Three Poisons over hundreds of years.

Dalia is making strategic errors now .It read clearly how desperate he is to see that his facade is crumbling before his eyes, with all his lies, he broadcasts them all over the world.

He does not consider how lies fly faster, than when he was a kid growing up in Lhasa.

His lies are moving faster than the speed of light in a cyclotron.

The lies are moving him out of his castle and onto the playing field.

The lies pile up higher than all the Bones of Mount Meru. For everyone to see the truth behind his lies.

All the conjured rituals of fear mongering he has created will come back to him in full stark clarity of his deepest fears being realized are exposed for the whole world to know.

Total disclosure of his misdeeds will eventually make him grateful to the Protector and lamas for healing this festering sore. He will be grateful eventually. I promise!

Now he looks quite sick.

Look into his face and eyes, and you can see his sickness.

I remember Dagom Rinpoche and Norbu meeting at the TCC .

I was giving Dagom Rinpoche a tour of my town and we drove up to the Tibetan Cultural Center on a whim and I was unprepared for what happened next was beyond belief.

We drove up to Chorten and there was old Tagster standing guard and Rinpoche was smiling

at Norbu and giggling a little through the car window. They obviously knew one another.

Norbu literally turned red and his face took on a demon of some sort. He snarled at me and told me leave.

I got out of the van and stood up in his face and asked. Why he is so rude to a new friend of mine and a lama?

I stared into eyes I had never noticed in the last 33 years.

I saw hate incarnate in my face.

I almost crawled on top of him in that minute.

Rinpoche called me back in and said, forget him.

I drove away never to speak to him again.

Mr. Norbu predicted, “I will be reborn as a Burro in Tijuana Mexico. ”

I used to argue and say, that this would never be.

Now, I understand why he would say this again and again.

He’d been selling OUT his countrymen and convinced them to sacrifice their lives in a nasty little guerrilla war for the KGB and the CIA for years.

He once was human and once he was a monk, But

He’d been doing this long before I ever met him!

However a promise is a promise.

The situation in India is where it is today.

Because even after the Boss cooled down for a few years, everyone thought our work is done.

In fact, I was sent a letter from the Monastery in India that said,”Our Work Is Done”.

So no one did anything, and thought, “we’ll just quietly practice our Dharma and maybe they’ll leave us alone.”

Like before!

That’s what I was told me happened after the flaying of the monks alive back in the 1930’s.

We’re Buddhist, we can handle a little roughing up every now and then.

Besides we have our vows to protect.

Now, we’ve done nothing for years, and everyone gets concerned and jumps up and down and runs around in panic and surprise that he was at it again.

I remember all the kind words.

It got absolutely no where, whatsoever.

“If you ain’t got nothing, you ain’t got nothing to lose”

So stack up the attachments and people hang on to what holds them back.

I remember the most single moving act of a monk in 1964 Viet Nam lighting himself up in a lotus position with a jerry can of gasoline to protest the US presence, bringing more heartbreak to Viet Nam.

He never wavered as the flames consumed his body.

He remained in perfect equipoise as he taught me enough at 16 not to join the army at 18.

Was this too violent or abusive to others less learned , young or naive, than he ?

Did he break a vow with his act?

He stunned the world or my world with a totally alien and illegal act.

Was it suicide or sacrifice or a teaching?

I’m sure his motivation was Bodichitta inspired.

What I think is that any words that can bring this useless suffering to an end is far better than being forced to light oneself up to prove a point or gain attention.

What gets headlines and brings attention to the plight of the monks and the gross violations being perpetrated upon all of us who believe in total Equality for all sentient beings.

I think the lamas and monks have set the tone from how it feels from their side of the planet.

Not ours, over here in the relative comfort of the West.

Kunden ling and others are taking the heat in New Delhi with constant pressures from the goon squads of the Dalia lama.

Remember how that felt back then? I do!

However the stakes have changed and it is apparent by the recent news that DL and Thurman have completely come unhinged. He’s put Bob in the hot seat to lie thoroughly right before the court hearing in New Delhi.

Bob always says outrageous stuff to get himself worked up. It helps him to lie more convincingly to himself.

All we had to do last time was build a Shugden Monastery in Bloomingtonto get his attention.

He came running to destroy the Shugden Sangha with the full force of the Kalachakra.

Just like a Hungry Ghost with an obsession!

We’ve definitely got Fred’s attention and he’s ticked off.

That’s good!

Now if we can only keep him going until he gets flustered.

He’s prone to go off the deep end about this issue.

Good now they’ll look like lunatics.

It’s called turning the tables.

All we need do is let them fall into their own bed of lies.

Moment Of Truth!

Dalia lama looked through the National News tonight and said, “I will not stop Tibetans from expressing their religious freedom. I am freedom man.”

I almost lost my dinner with this absurd and untruthful statement.

A man in robes,lying is not a monk, nor a lama.

It is enough for any of us to know, that real danger is here.

The bigger they are, the harder or farther they fall.

So, I am going to be listening for a big thump.

I feel happy that the Protector is bringing on the Sun Shine, and it’s never darker than before the dawn.

We’ve been “Watchers For The Dawn’, for a long time.

I think I see a beam of light shine forth in the dawn of morning first light.

I think that the Masters await until the stream clears and runs clean.

Giving us just enough time to prepare.

This man has one major agenda, and that is to Destroy The Teachings That Dorje Shugden Protects and The Lama Chopa Guru Lineages with Single Pointedness of mind.

This is what Dalia lama is doing.

One Dream, One World, One Master, which he aspires to be.

He is not mincing words or hesitating for even one second to accomplish his obsession to destroy all traces of Dorje Shugden from this world.

We must defend ourselves.

It is not surprising that the Dalia lama’s clique of rich actors choose to attempt to ruin one of the few events that the world celebrates in concord together.

The individual spirit’s power to unite us by their victories.

We share with enthusiasm and bask in the light of their achievements.

The Olympics began in the cradle of western democracy principles and ideals. Tibetan never experienced any thing remotely resembling democracy under the 14 Dalia lamas over the last 400 years.

The Dalia lineage devised a Medieval slave_serf class structure that rode on the backs of the Tibetan people for far too long. He called in the Mongolian calvary to force all the different school under his control by force and became the Supreme Dictator of Tibet, similar to the modern communist state of North Korea

It was Radio Free Tibet,that announced the location of the recently reincarnation of the Panchen lama in 1991.

The Chinese authorities picked him up in a matter of hours.

The Panchen lama is of equal authority as the DL.

It was the PRC that liberated the people of Tibet.

This Dalia lama is no different now after 49 years, than his predecessors.

Only a month before he incited the rioting in Tibet.

The Dalia lama threw out a 350 year old respected order of the The Tibetan Mahayana Gulug lineage of Dorje Shugden into the streets of India. Thousands of the clergy are now confronted by Tibetan Vigilante goons that stated they will harass them out of the Tibetan Colonies in India.

Why?

He wears two mantles of authority that tread daily on our Founding Father’s Principles of Equality and Freedom of Speech and Religion.

He does not adhere to our Bill Of Rights.

Nor would he know what to do with our rights inside his government in exile.

The western news reporting is as blind to the history of the Dalia lama as are the Free Tibet people are. Free to go back to a free Tibet that never existed except as a despot’s medieval time warp.

Democracy is not the Free Tibet the Dalia lama strives to emulate.

He is free to glory in his own emulation of himself.

Not the values of the American Founding Fathers Belief In Equality. Which he, Bob Thurman and his side kick, Richard Gere have betrayed.

We need to address whomever our direct Masters or Teachers and seek their immediate input and advice on dealing with this looming crisis in the Colonies.

If we in the west contemplate inflation and shortages and depressions. We can only imagine the stress that is arising on the Indian Sub Continent with food and fuel shortages with unfavorable crop yields anticipated, due to drought.

We might consider that the additional stress the Dalia lama has placed upon the local economy by his erratic and tenacious behavior towards his own people.

It is clear that many people are emotionally charged and flailing and thrashing blindly against anyone the Dalia lama scorns. Which includes the Chinese and Dorje Shugden Devotees.

Acting in unison will help to bring about the desired results for this witch hunt implemented by the mind of a backward medieval dictatorial Potentate.

Or shall we do as before and simple practice our Dharma in quiet, and maybe nobody will notice us and leave us alone.

It hasn’t worked before and there is no reason to think it will resolve itself so easily this time.

Get off your pillows, stand up and ask yourself and others.What can I do?

Now in this moment and the next.

Your Protector needs you to act as he directs each and every one of us in our audiences with him.You might be in for the ride of your life.

Protetor Power is an overwhelmingly out of the body experience in real time.

All we need to do is say Yes! I will, and I can do whatever it is you need for me to do, right now.

Enlightenment is like that. The Now is all there is, so let’s start acting like our Brothers and Sisters for those that need our help now.

Who else will , if we do not.

Now the brothers India share the tale of darkness and despair of Vigilantes,who have sworn to bring us to an end.

So unite us, Love is all you need.

I am glad my words have been of some comfort and if it is any more help please know that you are not alone. With the way things are going I am sure you will not be the last.

Fortunately, I am very familiar with Thom Canada as a spiritual warrior who has inspired people like me, to shatter the silence of fear and clamorously defend our precious lineage. He has helped unveil the man behind the curtain so we can see for ourselves the nature of deceit and destruction handed out by the DL. He has made every sacrifice in the effort to make sure that freedom is near. I will let others fill you in on the history if they want, I do not think that is my business. What matters to me is his actions carried out on behalf of our great Protector, Gyelchen Dorje Shugden.

ar with the workings of the DL and his administration. They do not operate ethically and morally.I have witnessed many great lamas, members of the Sangha and simple lay people go through the same types of persecution. In feudal Tibet the punishment of being excommunicated and ostracized were reserved for those who were the greatest threats. This mentality is carried on to this day.The only difference is that Tibet does not have a land to banish us from so the tactics of splitting and isolation from the community are now used. The DL and his administration still live in the dark ages yet present themselves as following Buddhist principles to the world and speak of peace. Thinking people who come in contact with this system recognize it and see fault in it. We do a service to our fellow human beings when we bring this to light.

, I am glad to see that u have had contact with several great masters of our lineage. In times like this I have found solace in the teachings and words of advice from our great lineage masters for they continue to guide me out of this difficult and trying time of afflictions and the impermanent reality of existence.

Your contributions to the Buddha Dharma thus far will continue to help people long after we’re gone.In some ways the hardships you have endured may not have been in vain.It could have helped clear or alleviate the obstacles and negative karma for the pure gelug tradition to flourish in the west.I applaud you for your willingness to keep an open mind and generous heart to possibly continue helping our brethren in the near future despite your bitter experiences with Tibetans. Pls know that there are still many people who see your good nature, your pure motivation, your unwavering faith and passion for Dorje Shugden and unquestionable willingness to help. This speaks to the kind of person you are. Many tend to misunderstand your passion for anger or scorn.

Thom Canada is a spiritual warrior who has inspired people like me to shatter the silence of fear and clamorously defend our precious lineage. He has helped unveil the man behind the curtain so we can see for ourselves the nature of deceit and destruction handed out by the DL. He has made every sacrifice in the effort to make sure that freedom is near. I will let others fill you in on the history if they want, I do not think that is my business. What matters to me is his actions carried out on behalf of our great Protector, Gyelchen Dorje Shugden.

Rainlute

shaza
12 September 2008 at 06:36

Hi Geronimo,

--------------------------------------------------------"“The Dalai Lama has actually repudiated his own spiritual guide, which is, again, very un-Buddhist. The Dalai Lama himself offered prayers to Dorje Shugden for 40 years. "

I don't blame you for not getting the facts straight, but at least work on the numbers before you endorse this claim.

The WSS says DL gave up the practice in 1975....

http://www.westernshugdensociety.org/en/protesting/dalai-lam...

“The Dalai Lama himself was trained in this tradition, and for 40 years relied upon Dorje Shugden, even composing a prayer of his own praising Dorje Shugden and requesting his help. Then, suddenly in 1975 he abandoned the practice because he had ‘discovered’ Dorje Shugden was a harmful spirit! ”

But you know........

It just doesn’t add up.

Dalai Lama was born in July 1935. He would have to start worshipping from the crib in order to make it on time.

Simple arithmetics.

Best

Shaza

Geronimo
12 September 2008 at 20:31

It does,if you deduct the funds the CIA withdrew in 1974, from the Dalia Lama annual annuity.

gyalchen
12 September 2008 at 22:21

I was reading through the comments and came across these words by Tenzin Peljor, formerly a monk called Kelsang Tashi, in the NKT. He says:

"I know what they think and feel, I was with them for more than six years, I practised it myself and I have also good experiences. But having good experiences is no proof for anything."

What on earth is he talking about?! He is trying to show that he was an NKT Buddhist and knows about NKT practices..

As Kelsang Tashi, however, in Berlin, he was taught by a woman called Corolla who basically messed up everything she was given by her Buddhist teacher Geshe Kelsang. So power hungry did she become that later she claimed to be a reincarnate tulku (but could not say tulku of whom!) and made it known that after her death her ashes should be placed in a stupa at Schloss Sommerswalde, a German castle which she stole from the NKT. (Such as happens with highly realized people)

When Corolla came to the UK to receive the teachings given by Geshe Kelsang she instructed her German students not to mix or speak with the other NKT students from around the world. These German students had no opportunity to check what they were practising was correct. She prevented this. Later she left the NKT and set up her own centres taking Tashi with her. Later Tashi re-ordained with the Dalai Lama and became known as Tenzin Peljor

and tries to pass himself off as a person who knows the NKT from the inside.

This is not true. His knowledge and experience came through Corolla who did many things completely against the teachings given by Geshe Kelsang.

Poor Tenzin, he never got a chance to get to know the feelings and experiences of pure Kadampas following wisdom Buddha Dorje Shugden. He must have had some terrible experiences of betrayal following Corolla in the slavish way he did...

So now, blaming the NKT for his bad experiences, he has devoted his life to trying to destroy the NKT and Shugden practice. He is single-pointedly, and it seems to me obsessively, engaged in this work as evidenced by his extensive blogs, websites and appearances on comments pages like this.

Maybe most readers here already know this as most of what I write is available elsewhere on the web. But it seems important to have this background when reading Tenzin's posts.

It has taken myself quite a while to realize that the depth of his anger is so profound. Therefore, whereas previously I saw his posts as coming from a genuine wish to debate and explore this issue, now I understand very clearly what his agenda is.

I am not posting this with a desire to hurt Tenzin's feelings but to protect myself and others from his comments which appear cleverly to be so reasonable and polite but in reality are burning with single-pointed hatred.

I will no longer be fooled by Tenzin's appearance of reasonableness and will also reserve special prayers that he heals quickly.

AdamAW
13 September 2008 at 01:19

Gyalchen,

do you not think that you may be over-stating the point a bit? I don't find this "single-pointed hatred" comment credible. I think we need to be careful in the way that we word our remarks in order not to alienate people. Although it probably doesn't matter much in this context as I think those remaining are all DS supporters.

From my point of view Tenzin is motivated by faith/attachment to DL, certainly some pride and haugtiness, and no small dose of wrong views.

Have you read friendoftruths's essay above? Make sure you do. I want everyone to read it and have requested that it be submitted to WSS, but no response yet. Perhaps he's gone off.

Best Wishes

Friendoftruth
13 September 2008 at 06:09

Poor Shaza,

You seem to truly believe what you are saying. What a pity that it's just one incorrect information after the other, I don't dare say lies ...

And this certainly is about a persecution, very cruel indeed. To talk about supposedly religious subjects to make the world forget about the persecution ... well, just go and keep on praying, the Buddhas will help you, what can I say. Pity, pity, pity indeed!

Dear Adam,

I'm sorry I didn't see your posts before.

It's fine with me that you copy and paste, just say it's a friendoftruth who wrote it, not the ghost of the NS.

About the WSS: I think they have their own people writing, never had the impression that they took other's work. They have enough writing hands.

Thank you for your comments. As my Lama told me once, talking of something I was doing: "if only one being is helped, that is enough reason for your work".

I wish I could make this nightmare disappear.

shaza
13 September 2008 at 07:17

Hi Friendoftruth

-------------------------"Poor Shaza, You seem to truly believe what you are saying. What a pity that it's just one incorrect information after the other, I don't dare say lies ... "

Gimme a reason to believe otherwise. I'm listening.

Or, you want me to believe this explanation from Geshe Kelsang Gyatso?

" In the same way if Je Phabongkhapa, through his dreams and other indications stopped certain practices, including some Nyingma practices, then this was his choice. It may be that in his dreams he felt Dorje Shugden was telling him to stop some of his Nyingma practices, but this does not imply that Dorje Shugden does not like the Nyingma tradition. It merely indicates that Je Phabongkhapa had no karmic connection with the Nyingma tradition. If there is no karmic connection with a particular practice, then you will not receive any good results. So please do not misunderstand. " (Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, talk.religion.buddhism, 19 December 1997)

Best

Shaza

AdamAW
13 September 2008 at 19:16

Dear friendoftruth,

the WSS does accept articles and the articles there have been written by a few different people. I think that your article would make a valuable contribution as it presents the issue with skill and sensitivity.

Have a think about this.

Adam

AdamAW
13 September 2008 at 19:39

Dear friendoftruth,

I want to make my statement a bit stronger. I think that you have written perhaps the BEST article yet on this issue. Please don't decline my request out of timidity or false modesty. If you are timid about this then allow me to submit the article for you for their consideration.

Please - you obviously care passionately about this issue, so why limit the potential impact of this valuable piece of work that you have already done.

The WSS do accept submitted articles. Yours could be one of them. I hope it will be.

Please!

Adam

Geronimo
13 September 2008 at 22:53

Confederation of Shambala Warriors!

Unite and Fight All Forms of Tyranny!

Convene The Gathering Force Of Dorje Shugden Warriors to Defend The Dharmapala’s Lineage!

All Voices in Concord as One!

The Enemy Does Not Delay for One Minute to Place Us In Our Graves!

Come Together Now, Before It Is Too Late!

Ron Cook
14 September 2008 at 17:36

Questions for the Dalai Lama and his Followers

1) If it is appropriate for the Dalai Lama to decide what spiritual practices are appropriate, and seeing clearly that such a decision causes divisiveness, why are the reasons he cites for the ban on Dorje Shugden not being supported by the teachings of Buddha? What sutras specifically dictate the need for invoking spiritual bans? If the ban is not politically motivated there must be an authentic spiritual basis for this action. The teachings of Buddha address all possible delusions that sentient beings are capable of generating, therefore, please cite the sutras that necessitate imposing the ban on Dorje Shugden.

2) Why is the Dalai Lama consistently patient, apologetic, and conciliatory toward the Chinese and not Dorje Shugden practitioners? The Dalai Lama has never acknowledged any email, petition, fax, phone call, telegram, or verbal request, nor has he ever granted an audience to anyone wishing to try and solve the Shugden controversy. However, he makes effort to engage the Chinese at virtually every opportunity. Please explain this double standard of engagement.

3) The Dalai Lama says that Dorje Shugden practitioners are free to ignore his ‘advice’ and continue to practice their faith. How is this possible when his government, his siblings, his personal friends, and representatives of Buddhist traditions that he controls, at every opportunity, disparage and attack Dorje Shugden practitioners? What basis is there to believe that Shugden practitioners have freedom? The Dalai Lama has said:

“Everyone who is affiliated with the Tibetan society of the Ganden Phodrang government, should relinquish ties with Dhogyal. This is necessary since it poses danger to the religious and temporal situation of Tibet. As for foreigners, it makes no difference to us if they walk with their feet up and their head down. We have taught Dharma to them, not they to us…

‘Until now you have a very good job on this issue. Hereafter also, continue this

policy in a clever way. We should do it in such a way to ensure that in future generations not even the name of Dhogyal is remembered.”

(From a speech delivered July 14th 1996, in Caux Switzerland)

Since the Dalai Lama has expressed an intention to utterly destroy the practice of Dorje Shugden, please explain the nature and type of freedom such practitioners shall enjoy.

4) Johan Candelin, director of the World Evangelical Fellowship’s (WEF) Religious Liberty Commission, invited the Dalai Lama to meeting in Helsinki on June 20, 1998. One of the topics discussed was the persecution of Christians in Sri Lanka by Buddhists. The Dalai Lama said that any Buddhist who persecutes Christians “misunderstands the true nature of Buddhism.” Persecution is defined in the Random House College Dictionary (def. 3) to mean:

“A program or campaign to exterminate, drive away, or subjugate a people because of their religious or moral beliefs or practices.”

If persecution of Christians is inappropriate and contrary to the true nature of Buddhism, why is the persecution of Shugden practitioners been not only acceptable, but advocated by the Dalai Lama? How can any reasonable person not consider the Dalai Lama’s words and actions to be hypocrisy in the extreme? Please clarify that persecuting Shugden practitioners is not hypocrisy.

5) The Dalai Lama freely admits that previous to his ban he was a practitioner of Dorje Shugden. He also composed a prayer to the deity entitled, Melody of the Unceasing Vajra, which is subtitled: ‘A Propitiation of Mighty Gyalchen Dorje Shugden, Protector of Conqueror Manjushri Tsongkhapa’s Teachings, by the Supreme Victor, the Great 14th Dalai Lama.’

Since the Dalai Lama is considered to be infallible and a fully enlightened being, how can these completely opposite beliefs be reconciled? Should we understand that the Dalai Lama was a faulty being when he practiced this deity in the past? If so, how is it that he can be considered to be faultless now? Enlightened beings cannot become more enlightened with time, nor can their perfect state degenerate. Moreover, such a pure being is omniscient, and would know indubitably that such a reversal of belief would cause tremendous confusion and problems. A flawless being should be able to provide a coherent, logical, and plausible explanation for this contradiction. The Dalai Lama has yet to provide such an explanation. Please explain how the Dalai Lama’s reversal on Dorje Shugden can be considered anything other than the confused and mistaken action of an ordinary being.

6) For nearly four centuries the deity Dorje Shugden has supposedly caused harm to many people. The Fourteenth Dalai Lama claims that since the time of the Fifth Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden has caused not only a consistent degeneration of Buddhism, but many other serious problems. If this is true, why is it not possible for any of the reincarnations of the Dalai Lama to subdue this being? It is claimed that each of the Dalai Lamas are successive manifestations of the Buddha of Compassion (Chenrezig). There are many accounts of high Lamas subduing malevolent spirits in Tibet, yet the succession of ten Dalai Lamas cannot accomplish a similar feat. Practitioners of Dorje Shugden claim that he is an enlightened being, and therefore impossible to subdue. Please explain the failure of these ten Dalai Lamas to subdue Dorje Shugden. Please explain the failure of thousands of high Lamas to do the same.

AdamAW
15 September 2008 at 23:17

Dear friendoftruth,

the following comment was made today by a nun who received a copy of your essay:

"That was easily the best account I've read. It makes it all so clear."

I was asked to print off another copy for a friend of hers.

Thank you for your wisdom and for giving me permission to distribute your essay in this way. I hope I haven't offended you by being too over-bearing.

Adam

AdamAW
16 September 2008 at 21:49

Dear friendoftruth,

the Dorje Shugden blog spot have invited me to sent in your essay which they will publish. This is a bit separate from the WSS site. They think you'll be fine about this. I hope this is Ok.

I rejoice in your merit.

Trijang is smiling!

Adam

Friendoftruth
17 September 2008 at 05:05

Sorry AdamAW,

I had not time these last days to visit this Faith Column. I have the feeling that some djinns have the intention of keeping it alive with slander until the Valley of Josafat manifests ... Sorry for the interfaith joke.

As I said, you can publish my article wherever you want, providing that you say it's a Friendoftruth that wrote it, and not the ghost of the New Statesman.

Another thing: I sent once a very similar material to WSS and they never published it.

It would be interesting to add to that essay what I wrote the following day in the Faith Column, i.e., the last day of the four we had. It's just the "oracles" chronicle that I took from the Charitable Society, which I acknowledged there of course. It would put in circulation one of the most interesting pieces of information regardin this case.

Those 2 oracles coming from Tibet were commented upon in a frenzy of gossip coming from Dharamsala, I remember that, but of course in a hushed way. It's time that people know some about that piece of history.

Thank you for rejoicing, you are too kind.

shaza
17 September 2008 at 16:49

Hi Friendoftruth

-----------------------------------------------" It's just the "oracles" chronicle that I took from the Charitable Society, which I acknowledged there of course. It would put in circulation one of the most interesting pieces of information regardin this case. "

Oracles are fallible. The sources of these oracles like Nechung and Shugden are also fallible because they are worldly beings. That's why no serious Buddhists take refuge in them.

However, the words of our Shugden folks are no less confusing when compared to the inscrutable language of oracles,

For instance, different Shugdenpas have different spins on HH Ling Rinpoche's warning to DL about the sectarian nature of Shugden.

Spin #1) the Shugden websites say HH Ling Rinpoche questioned the authenticity of Nyingma tantras, and advised DL against learning the teaching:

"His Holiness blames the negative response received from his teacher Ling Rinpoche about taking the teaching of Sangwa-Nyingpo-Tantra to Dorje Shugden. There is in fact 'a lot of discussion' about this Tantra, but these discussions have nothing to do with Dorje Shugden whatsoever. Many great earlier Tibetan scholars, especially those with a precise knowledge of Sanskrit, such as master Jangchub Woe, translator Goe, translator Chak, great Sakya pandita, the great master Bhutoen, etc., have classified a number of Tibetan Tantras as lacking the authenticity of being original Indian Buddhist Tantras. These texts, including the Tantra in question, were classified separately. Kyabje Ling Rinpoche's comment that 'there are a lot of discussions about this Tantra' refers to these discussions of many earlier and later Tibetan scholars about the authenticity of the Sangwa-Nyingpo-Tantra.

Ling Rinpoche's answer has therefore nothing to do with protector Dorje Shugden. Ling Rinpoche neither had any reason to be afraid of the deity, nor did he have any reason to frighten His Holiness of such a deity. Unfortunately, the former Kyabje Ling Rinpoche is no longer among us, but many respectable and trusted disciples of Kyabje Ling Rinpoche are still living."

http://www.shugdensociety.info/HHsWordsEN.html

http://wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.org/dorjeshugden32.php

Spin # 2) GKG says HH Ling Rinpoche did not criticize the Nyingma teachings but advised the DL not to take them in order to be a PURE Gelug:

"According to the information that I have received from authentic sources, when the Dalai Lama first began to engage in Nyingma practices, it was HH Ling Rinpoche who tried to discourage him, strongly advising him against these practices. This does not mean that HH Ling Rinpoche was saying that the Nyingma practices are not good, but he felt that it was an affront to the Gelugpas, indicating that their practice was not a complete path. Until that time the Dalai Lama had been pure Gelugpa, and now he was changing; this was not a good indication for the Gelug tradition. There is no criticism implied that Nyingma practice is not pure." (Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, talk.religion.buddhism, 19 December 1997)

Although the two tales contradict each other, they do have one thing in common.

They all smell of sectarianism.

Best

Shaza

AdamAW
17 September 2008 at 18:51

Dear friendoftruth,

thank you so much! My request is really a very simple hearted one - the essay is excellent and deserves to be read as widely as possible. I will certainly copy and paste your entry from 29th and send it to the blog spot too.

I'm astonished that WSS site didn't jump at it with both hands, as I would have. I would still prefer for it to be published on the WSS site itself as then it would get translated into all those different languages and reach that many more people. Still, if it's a big hit on the blog site that may happen.

I have printed out another copy this evening for the nun to give to her friend. She said to me this evening that she's on a mission now to make sure that this article gets read as widely as possible!

So that makes two of us!!!

Best Wishes,

Adam

Tenzin
18 September 2008 at 02:36

Here is a very interesting news article about the problem in today's Tibetan society:

http://citybeat.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid:146102

Friendoftruth
20 September 2008 at 04:59

Dear Adam,

I think it would be good that when you circulate the article, you specify that it appeared here, in the

FAITH COLUMN of the NEW STATESMAN, and that it's taken from here. This, if ever it appears in any other website.

Thank you.

AdamAW
20 September 2008 at 06:55

Dear friendoftruth,

Ok, thank you for specifying this. I will pass this on to the person I sent it to.

The nun mentioned above asks me to send you her love.

Best Wishes,

Adam

Friendoftruth
20 September 2008 at 23:59

Well, I feel a little bit overwhelmed, Adam, by your heartfelt appreciation, and the kind message sent by your friend the nun.

Now that I think of it, I really rejoice in this work. I have made a vow not to stop writing about this issue until it goes away or I leave this world. We'll see if I'm able to keep my promise, it will depend on the opportunities given by circomstances.

I think everybody, for instance, right now, should write to the European Parliament to oppose the candidacy of the Dalai Lama for their yearly Sakharov Prize, that is awarded next October. So I already wrote about it, in some important blogs, but more should be done.

People have the right to know the truth in order that their actions accord with reality. If after knowing about the persecution they choose to back it up, like our ineffable T.P/Sh/Whatever his name, then it's their problem, but at least they choose with "connaissance de cause".

The world still applauds him, in general, not because it spouses the persecution, but because people still didn't realize it's an ongoing problem ... but it's coming.

You know, our Lamas always repeat several times every point of a given teaching before starting with the following one. This shows the necessity of our human mind to have things repeated to us in order to understand them.

So let's keep repeating and spreading this information.

Thank you from my heart for your help with this.

your Friend

AdamAW
21 September 2008 at 20:12

Dear friendoftruth,

you really don't deserve any less than the small support that I've been able to offer you. It broke my heart to see some of the angry and ignorant responses that you received, but this is just the nature of this medium - we can't choose who we find ourselves interacting with on this blog.

You will find your article published in full at:

http://wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.blogspot.com

If you do write more I'm sure the blog spot would be interested in publishing them. I couldn't work out if they had an e-mail address, but if you visit the New Kadampa Truth web-site and e-mail it to them as an attachment, it will find its way to the blog spot.

I'll also join you in writing to the European Parliament with regard to the Sakharov Prize.

Best Wishes,

Adam

AdamAW
22 September 2008 at 06:31

Dear friendoftruth,

what is the best way for me to give you my e-mail address? I don't really want to put it on line if I can help it as it might attract spam.

I know someone else who is interested in organising small-scale activities to run along side those of WSS, and I would like to put you in contact with her. She may also be interested in using your writings.

I am going to send her your essay right away. I don't know why I didn't think of doing so earlier.

Best Wishes,

Adam

Friendoftruth
22 September 2008 at 22:13

Adam,

I really don't know how to establish an email contact, I suppose we'll go on through the blogs we'll find ourselves in.

The problem is: what blogs, beyond this one, is active and friendly?

Did you belong to the Forum? That was a perfect meeting point, but Beggar got fed up with cleaning all the maliciousness and stopped it, with good reasons.

I don't know of a true blog right now.

If the NS does not close this one, we can continue seeing things here, why not?

AdamAW
23 September 2008 at 19:01

Dear friend of truth,

Annabel has told me today that she is in contact with you anyway. You are welcome to ask her for my e-mail address if you would like to share ideas with me.

This might be a bit easier than using this blog if all we are doing is talking to each other.

Best Wishes,

Adam

Tenzin Peljor
02 October 2008 at 23:03

The truth revealers from NKT and Kundeling Lama. For the sake of balance here is another truth about the sectarianism in Shugden worship:

http://westernshugdensociety.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/sectar...

Geronimo
09 October 2008 at 19:05

Stop the Dalia Lama's Pinnocchio Politics!

It too Long and boring!

Geronimo
12 October 2008 at 20:49

Thom has left a new comment on the post ""Does Lama Zopa’s closeness with H.H. the Dalai La...":

I am certain it is difficult to seperate one's self from the root word of 'diffi_'CULT',of the Dalai Lama's Cult! Sounds Arabic doesn't it, the 'diffi' part of difficult"?

For me any and all who find it diffi_cult to leave or abandon a bona fide liar called Dalia Lama. Is only a sign that none of these Lamas or practioners are neither practicing nor Buddhist!

They have not the courage to abandon the comforts of the cash flow the New Dharma in the West has brought to them.

If they had the courage to speak their minds, then they would be as Lions and all would fear them . Instead, it's the other way around!

I see these cowards as exactly that, fearful of the Three Poisons and the fact that they are fearful of losing all that they've gained.

All he Grants and Royalties that keep their Rice Bowls Full. Fat Cats On Parade.

Or maybe they are afraid that Dl will have them killed and what would be the use of that?

Maybe they are just plain old afraid? I can understand that!

I used to live in constant fear next door to the Tibetan Cultural Center,the opposite of what one might expect as the Benefactor to receive some other kind of reward than negativity day and night.

Oh yes! I am certain of one thing and that is this.

Unless 'Everyone crawls out of their closet or gets up off their cushions, to shout it out,"That they know what they think and the Dalia Lama is dead wrong about all of this."

Then you might as well crawl into a deeper hole and hide, whilst we the few, take care of all of this mess Tenzin and Bob have made.

Darkness is never darker than right before the dawn.

I challenge any all of these centers to do the opposite, if accused of being a Buddhist in a pagan land.

Instead of denying that you are a Buddhist.

Actually embrace it, and Stand your ground and Act like One!

Duldzin
23 October 2008 at 19:21

Millions of Buddhist across the world carry out the practice of an ancient well loved prayer to the Buddhist Deity Dorje Shugden.

The Dalai Lama has illegally banned this prayer even though he himself practiced it for most of his life and was taught to him by his Spiritual Guide before him. Since banning the prayer in 1996, the Dalai Lama has set about instigating and endorsing a series of non-democratic and vehement campaigns toward Shugden practitioners causing tremendous pain and great schisms within the Buddhist community worldwide.

His campaign has intensified since January this year when over a 1000 monks were unconstitutionally expelled from their monasteries, Tibetans-in-exile were forcibly intimidated to engage in public signature and swearing campaigns, and since which Shugden devotees have experienced having identity cards and visa applications withheld, they have been denied basic needs and necessities such as food, water and medical assistance, and there have been instances of thuggish attacks against persons and arson against their property simply because they wish to maintain their spiritual beliefs.

The Dalai Lama continues to campaign for support to seek religious freedom from the Chinese. Yet, millions of Shugden practitioners worldwide are also seeking religious freedom - from the Dalai Lama."

Geronimo
27 October 2008 at 23:18

Dalia Lama is realizing his mistakes and probably will take the easy path by retiring from his day job and if he's smart retire to the cloisters of the monastery to contemplate his crimes against other Buddhist by violating their Civil Rights.

Step down OId Man and send your faithful to Alaska before it's too late.

On the hillside known as Dharmasala, the refugees will be left to rot.

Once he's kicked the bucket no one will care and Free Tibets will become a lost dream of a destructive reincarnate War Lord, known as the 5th Dalia lama.

Which he was!

In the West, we've made the mistake of supporting Kingdoms of Saud and theocracies that are dead.

Sunlight
11 December 2008 at 02:40

The 5th Dalai Lama may not have been a 'war lord" as geronimo thinks from presently availabel documents. but I applaud his confidence to speak his mind openly, which is curiously lacking even among Westerners when dealing with this topic.

Lyara
19 December 2008 at 02:34

Two Christmas Presents for Dorje Shugden practitioners!

Ten Simple Reasons why Dorje Shugden is a Buddha

http://wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.blogspot.com/2008/12/ten-sim...

and

Some Thoughts on the History of a Practice

http://truthaboutshugden.wordpress.com/some-thoughts-on-the-...

Meanwhile, even non-Shugden practitioners just trying to get to the bottom of this problem by checking out articles on the Internet are coming to the inevitable conclusion that the Dalai Lama's ban is just wrong. Plain wrong. For example,

http://maramyfriend.blogspot.com/2008/12/dorje-shugden-part-...

http://mountainphoenixovertibet.blogspot.com/2008/10/evil-sp...

And there has been an increasing amount of press on the subject, for example:

France 24 : http://www.france24.com/en/20080808-dalai-lama-demons-india-...

Al Jazeera : http://www.wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.blogspot.com/2008/10/dal...

The Dalai Lama will not be able to get away with this for much longer, and religious freedom will be restored whether he likes it or not.

All we want from you for Christmas in 2008, Dalai Lama, is religious freedom.