Never mind - Healey has four long years to practice his Mandy pose!

I fail to see Olly's issue. Was it that John Healey reminded her of the views her party once again?

I am sorry but Ms Grender I don't understand your role at NS - do you actually write other articles for them? or is it as the defender and mouth piece of Lib Dems at which point I should treat your columns as such, because your focus always seems SO narrow. I know you are a member and you used to advise someone or other but please broaden.. there is more to being progressive or Liberal than you ever tackle.

It all boils down to the same issue - liberal or social liberalism vs swedish social democracy and who's going to pay for it.

As far as I can tell the coalition are at least trying to grapple with the subject and realise that those on average to higher incomes aren't suddenly going to dip their hands in their pockets and produce a couple of grand or more.

Until Labour grasps this issue they'll be going round in circles acting like the two blokes at the back of the theatre in the muppets.

"Perhaps he can go back to his colleagues and tell them there are other ways to oppose."

Err......like conceding everything and forgetting you ever had principles?

LibDems accuse Labour supporters of being tribalist. La Grender is something else again....

I wouldn't worry about letting anybody into a conference.

I would be far more concerned if I felt this demonstration of my 'liberal' virtue made me feel quite relaxed about being duplicitous in every other aspect of my behaviour.

I'm not wild about hypocrisy.

So we have a government who are privatising the NHS, putting millions on the dole, forcing the seriously disabled back to work, looking to cut union rights, stopping the building of new schools, cutting surestart, cutting the future jobs fund, trebling tuition fees, cutting policing, continuing Labour mistakes with regards to wars and civil liberties, all while doing nothing about tax cheats and doing anything to avoid hurting the bankers who caused the crash...But wait, the Liberals £2 million publicly funded conference was a well mannered affair? Well thats cheered me right up.

Er ..... The New Statesman asked me to blog for them from a LibDem perspective. If too upsetting you are most welcome to read all the other bloggers instead!

This is an honest question to Olly or anyone else. A Lib Dem MP said this today:

"The Lib Dems were the architects of the NHS. Don't let us become the architects of its demise."

Were they really the architects? Beveridge was in the cabinet but I'm sure it was Nye Bevan that established it. The Liberals never did it previously when in government.

Hindle - I know it is hard to distinguish between the Tories and the Liberal Democrats now but I was just not sure that the Liberals were the architects of the NHS.

I am aware the Tories fought against it every step of the way but I was unsure of the Liberal contribution.

Jo- Labour introduced the NHS-although the old style Liberal tradition was evident in the ethos of such a move-to say they were the architect of it is in my view disingenuine,the Libdems contain broadly people from that tradition but in decision making levels followers of the "Orange" book who are at least as right-wing as the Tories largely hold sway.

Lib Dem manners ?

Shake your hand firmly and smile while they manage to stab you in the back at the same time ?

The posters in my window for the May elections will not be Vote Lib Dem like last year but

Lib Dem Never Again
&
No to AV, Yes to PR

@Olly

What is the point of this pathetic nonsense of a post? Did you actually get paid for this drivel? I'll cancel my subscription if you did, not because of its content or tone but the sheer banality of it. I wasted a full 5 seconds of my life reading a puff piece of sanctimonious shit.

Boooooooring.

Jo, it is a moot point,I personally do not think the NHS would have come into existence without Bevan and his tenacity,if the Tories had won in 1945 it definately would not of.I think the Libdem was arguing that as Sam says that the Beveridge Report was used as the "plan" adopted by the post-war Labour Governmnent and its health/welfare reforms.

JO-interestingly the old Liberal Party ceased to become a major political force after they became part of a Tory led coalition Government-they were virtually wiped out at subsequent elections.

@ Mike H & Sam

Yeah, thanks Mike. Talk to me like that in person and you get a slap (physical or metaphorical depending what mood I'm in); prick.

Poor Olly Grender. She has come to our attention speaking nonsense, optimistic nonsense about the Libs, and nonsense that sticks in the craw. There's no recovering from that. If she'd started as a columnist five years ago, she might have had a future. But she irritates even people who were sympathetic to the Libs :)

I was in the hall too. Why in this thread has no Labour supporter made any comment whatsoever about the abysmal failure of that party to allow open debate at its conferences? That is the essence of Olly's article - albeit she has a personal go at John Healey who presumably is not "top of the pops" with her.

By the way there were no more than than 2000 protesters outside. One of them shouted "Tory scum" through a loudhailer at Edward Mc Millan Scott (former Conservative leader in the European Parliament who joined us some time ago)as he walked among them. "Oh No" he said "I was, but not now!" Some of the posters in this thread have at least made sensible points but as a lifelong Liberal I can assure all those tiresome blog posters who regard a thread like this as a chance to shriek "Tory scum" rather than actually address the issues raised, we who were in Sheffield on whatever side of any of the immensely civilised and well -informed debates are very far from being Tories. We are Liberal Democrats - out and proud.

Should anyone really take John Healey seriously?

"Housing minister's £88,000 haul"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1235222/MPs-expenses-scandal-For...

"A housing minister who says it is 'not a bad thing' that many people cannot afford to climb on the property ladder has made an £88,000 profit by selling his taxpayer-funded second home.

John Healey sold the London flat in July after spending thousands in public funds on renovations.

Mr Healey, whose job includes dealing with the shortage of affordable homes, bought the flat in Lambeth, South London for £110,000 in 2000 and sold it for £198,000 in 2009.

Yesterday he said he would pay capital gains tax on the profit he made on the property, but refused to be drawn on whether he would return the entire £88,000 profit to the taxpayer."

It was interesting to see the party supposedly dedicated to personal freedoms and the rolling back of the 'police state' behind miles of fencing, rows of kettling police, and protected by draconian area-wide banning orders.

Jo - Tbh I don't think you know much about the history of the Liberal Party. The Liberal Party created the welfare system and made school mandatory for all children and made many other positive contributions. By the time Labour came into power for the first time, the Liberals were a spent force pretty much.

It's a great shame because a liberal vision of the state and its role in society would really challenge Labour's socialist model. I personally feel that Labour's approach doesn't work as well as a decentralised approach would. I also feel that Labour's approach hinders people's progress as individuals, which in turn makes it seem necessary for the state to have an ever increasing and ever controlling role in people's lives.

I did vote for the Liberal Democrats, but I'm more of a classical liberal quite like Clegg, Laws and the so called Orange Bookers. I don't really support the Lib Dems that much as I believe they're too influenced by social democracy but I suppose they're the best of a bad bunch.

Olly, I usually quite enjoy reading your blogs, even though I usually vehemently disagree.

But this is a ridiculous article. I don't even understand what your point against John Healey is? His statement was perfectly respectful to Lib Dems...

I also might add that this sort of tribalist Labour-bashing we keep seeing from Lib Dems is particularly stupid at this time, considering you NEED Labour voters to vote "Yes" in the AV referendum if you want any hope of succeeding (and don't underestimate how strong the sentiment among Labour voters is to just give the Lib Dems a kicking... these types of articles only reinforce that).

They may debate things in a serious and respectful manner Tony. It remains to be seen how much respect will be shown to this discussion from the party leadership.

How dare anyone, whether Olly Grender or Tony Greaves, pontificate superciliously about 'respect' etc etc?

What respect have I been shown? I voted LibDem because I support PR, support the notion of 'new politics', supported their stance on VAT, supported Clegg's avowed approach to NOT cutting hard and fast, supported their pledge on tuition fees, support a robust approach on tax avoidance/evasion and the restructuring of the banking system.

Not only has this party made absolutely clear it has no respect for those who voted for the policies it put forward as manifesto commitments and in public statements in the run up to the election, but has also demonstrated that there is barely a shred of integrity between any of the bods who now have jobs in the Tory government.

And you dare to talk about 'respectful, sensible' debate in a vacuous, light-weight piece like this.

What a disgrace, per-lease!! (And Dan is bang on warning LibDems not to underestimate how strong the sentiment among Labour voters is to just give the Lib Dems a kicking. I am a Labour voter who was disillusioned enough to consider voting for you and indeed went and bloody did it on the strength of what turn out to have been hollow promises at beast, downright lies at worst. Don't insult my intelligence any further please.)

@Tony

" party in this country that can debate serious matters in a sensible and respectful manner."

Like the sensible, respectful debate you had over free schools that Clegg just ignored?

Seriously where are you liberals going to get off with the sanctimonious w*nk?