Sometimes these types will say and do things just to provoke. Of course this nut, just like Rev. Phelps (can he really be called a reverend?), know the reaction and headlines they'll generate and that's all they are looking for.
Here in the US we are forever having an argument over flag burning, free speech or hate ? Most Americans do not agree with flag burning but do agree that one has the right to do it if one wants. Basically , one has the right to be an ass if they want to.
Personally I think if anybody, especially politicians , think about this, one would have to ask , what in the world does disrespecting WWI vets , which after all is what the poppy really repesents, have to do with Muslim rights?

@gerry - What a load of poppycock! According to a revision of one government’s counter terrorism strategy, an Islamic extremist is defined as someone who advocates a caliphate; promotes Sharia law, believes in armed resistance anywhere in the world, specifically in Palestine; believes that homosexuality is sinful or banned in Islam; or fails to condemn the killing of British forces illegally occupying Iraq and Afghanistan. That definition makes many people and like minded pacifists all Islamic extremists. Is a person who prays 5 times a day an extremely better Muslim (more extreme) than one that prays zero times a day?

What we have to understand is that Extremism is now a loaded propaganda term used by many extreme Governments and like-minded brainwashed sheeple to demonize those who oppose its foreign policy, to justify occupation/colonialization, and nothing to do with religion or terrorism.

In your case, I would be more worried about the threat of seasonal flu than the threat of extremism, and I will not even begin to mention the threat of America/NATO to Islamic nations who have deliberately invaded Islamic countries under false pretences and murdered millions of Muslims just in the last decade.

I would argue that Christianity is more of a threat to our freedom with respect to homophobia, sexism, war, and the crusade against creationism. Again, I won't even mention the scourge of zionism.

Regarding Stephen Timms, this is just more propaganda for the sheeple. The poor Bangladeshi kid from East Ham had done two years at Kings College London, and was on-track for a first. Why would an obviously intelligent young woman consciously mount an assassination attempt against a man who was at best a bit-part participant in a war that she and so many others opposed, in full knowledge of the inevitable consequences to her personally? The reason given by the government was the same classic tune i.e. she was radicalised by an extremist preacher. Again, utter poppycock!

I would urge you to go back and thoroughly study your own religion and history, let alone pretending to be an expert on Islam.

I'm pretty sure those people in WW1, WW2 and other wars (Suez Canal crisis, Cyprus crisis, Gulf war, Somalia, Iraq, Afghan) didn't die to protect the rights of a person who waves a 'behead those who insult Islam' placard.

My goodness!

@gerry
Comparing Choudary to Hitler is just silly and hysterical. The two are nothing alike - Hitler was head of the German state and thus a threat, whilst Choudary is head of a ragtag mob of cranks. I'm not denying that these people really are extremists, and some of them may safely be labelled fascists- but the context and the threat are compleatly different.
that said...

Just because the extremists aren't a threat on the scale of fascism doesn't mean that they do not exist and are not harmful, both to the image of Muslims in general and to people within their communities (esp muslim women). And these people need to be challenged. Banning these organisations isn't really challenging them, its more akin to sweeping them under the carpet and hoping they'll go away (guess what-they won't). But they do need to be confronted - just because some of us don't want the government to run around banning things doesn't mean we are wimps or are burying our heads in the sand like colin..

Which brings me to...

@colin
What exactly did motivate the Stephen Timms attack given the attacker herself specifically said that she was influenced by Anwar al-Awlaki's sermonizing? Even 'obviously intelligent' people can believe some bizzare and abhorent things.

@gerry

"Ian - good post!"

oh dear, the kiss of death....

"People like Jankaas"

only those who read what i actually write, the others can't stand me. sod 'em.

"Nowadays, there are thousands and thousands of UK extremists"

any evidence, or should we just take your word? and of course you need to define what actions mark another as being 'extremist'.

"a "moderate" Muslim is becoming an oxymoron."

yawn....

@Luddite

Griffin is NOT a free speech martyr. He's able to spread his bull, but everyone is also fully entitled to tear those views to shreds and make mockery of him. Throwing stuff at him was an irrational move, but on the whole society's being rather tolerant to him- we've not banned the BNP, have we?

A little off topic but still linked.
My in-laws have just come back from touring many parts of India.
Without them bringing up the subject they said that most of the local people they met where 'Islamphobes'...and that all had a healthy fear and loathing of Islam...irrational of course...IDL???

I wonder what kind of lefty think tank or media outlet in India might start to castigate these people and tell them they are wrong to fear Islam and that they are misguided? They must be linked to far right parties out there?? INP?

Sigh....what would be more open and honest is that black is black, white is white and the fear of Islam and all it entails is felt by people all over the world. That what we feel is real and not a phobia or something imagined. That we who are fearful of Islam are not bad people and not intrinsically racist or bigots. On the contrary we are freedom loving people who don't want there lives ruled or violated by Islam in any sort of way.

Jankaas - we're not going to agree, clearly but I did document in an earlier post examples of extremism from UK Muslims, including support for sharia law in the UK, sanctions including death against gays and lesbians, threatening rationalist and secular Muslims with murder eg Dr Hasan, that 2005 Guardian poll just after 7/7 which said that "only" 18% of UK Muslims said they had sympathy with the backpack bombers, and "only" 40% backed jihadis going to fith in Afghanistan/Iraq..

It was the great African writer Wole Soyinka who said in 2008 that the UK has become "a cesspool of Islamic extremism" by which he meant the plethora of extremist Islamic student societies (under the aegis of the terror-backing umbrella group FOSIS)and growth of literally thousands of extremist madrassas where open hatred of the West, hatred of democracy and of human rights is taught every day to vulnerable little children, exposed for all to see in the Dispatches Undercover Mosque programme...

UK Islamic extremism is there for all to see, it is widespread, normalised, and growing...Chaudhury is just one tiny part of it. You may not be concerned about it, but I think we all underplay it at our own peril, Jankaas!

Jankarse, but what if the majority of people here want that level of xenophobia and ignorance.assuming your correct. So Muslims find it repellent, fine then go. I'm neither xenophobic nor ignorant . I just refuse to allow Sharia in any form to get a hold here in my country. Should I also be hypocritical and say I'm all for this multifaith multicultural society, I'm not, but then nor is Mr Choudary. Read what he's written. Your the twat, if you think appeasing fanatics is a way out of any problem. Still glad to see you agree that my culture offends Muslims...so simple solution. Don't come here or stay here. Keep it simple stupid. I'm fine with partition in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh , its what they wanted. so it can work!!!!!!!!!

@gerry

"Jankaas - we're not going to agree"

indeed it looks unlikely.

"You may not be concerned about it"

oh but i am, i just don't agree with your reaction to it, nor with your solutions as you've explained them.

it's a question of tactics, and crucially, consistancy. we should treat all extremist nutters exactly the same and not resort to cheap stereotypes and hyteria.

"but I think we all underplay it at our own peril, Jankaas!"

quite, but hopefully you can also see there is a rather predictable desire to overplay things, with disastrous consequences?

remember Iraq?
remember Afghanistan?

just to name 2 recent events where we seriously over-reacted....

we need cool, clear, calm heads. not just more of the same tired old rhetoric.

The worst thing you could do, Nelson Jones, is to treat Anjem Choudary like a clown. He's wily and clever, and knows just how to press the buttons of Islamist fanatics in this country. You are afflicted with the malaise of the arrogant - you truly believe that the cult he represents (in whatever guise it chooses to be known) is simply an irritation - if we ignore it it will go away. It is because of people like you and others posting here of the same mind that we are fighting Islamism with one hand tied behind our backs. We not only really have to be aware of the danger we face from Islam, those of us who are aware of it have to battle to persuade people like Nelson Jones, the fellow travellers of the likes of Choudary, and the fascist perpetrators of the kind of liberalism we are forced to put up with in our country - to wake up before it is too late.

People like some who post here follow like sheep the intrigues of the government, who want to keep the indigenous white Brits dumbed down by smearing groups like the EDL, simply British citizens who are fed up with being disadvantaged because the authorities would rather "celebrate diversity" and appease Muslims, than listen to their own countrymen when they warn of the demise of our culture and sovereignty.

When a Florida Pastor threatens to burn the racist Koran the world goes mad and the US President intervenes to dissuade him from doing so. Yet Islamofascists believe they have a right to burn the poppy because of Libya, Afghanistan, palestine and every other imagined grievance. Choudhery is not an isolated figure. He has substantial support among the 2 million Pakistani Islamist settlers in the UK. They start burning poppies again then thought needs to be given about removing the Islamist settlers.

I'd like to commend the Police for rounding up the 136+ EDL tanked up on alcohol before stepping out of the Pub and strolling down to St Pauls for a rendezvouz with the Anti Capitalist Protestors. The MET seemed to have got it right this time with some good intelligence and premptive action.

Jankaaas - why do you wilfully down play the extremism of UK Muslims? 2009 Mori poll - 40% of UK Muslims said that they wanted an Islamic state based on sharia law in the UK...2010 survey - 89% of UK Muslims said homosexuality was unaccaeptable, and 71% supported sanctions against them...2010 Dr Usama Hasan, scientist and on the board of his local London mosque, forced to go into hiding after being threatened with death from local Muslims for daring to write that Darwin/evolution was right..2011 unveiled Muslim female shop worker threatened with murder by local fanatics in Tower Hamlets...I could go on and on but this is a post!

You seem to be blissfully unaware of just how far Fascism/islamic fundamentalism has seeped into the marrow of many UK Muslim communities, but especially in London, Luton, Bradford and Manchester..why dont you just read your local papers?

Oh and Colin...you are delusional! Islamic extremism - from Nigeria (where just this week Boko Haram murdered 100 innocent Christians) to Libya (where, hilariously, the Nato-backed Transitional National Council openly declared its intent to impose full sharia law in Libya, even polygamy!)to the UK - has been on the rise for the last 30 years and clearly has the support of millions and millions of Muslims, including in the UK. What did Lenin call people like you - oh yes, useful idiot!

I don't think he's an obvious threat and danger. I think he's a pathetic, deluded little man.

The real problem is that the media pander to a pathetic deluded little man.

@Gerry

"why do you wilfully down play the extremism of UK Muslims?"

you serious? ok, because they have no power, and their aspirations are out of the question by default.

unlike you i am not scared of others letting off steam. and as for these Muslims holding "extremist" views, there are plenty of Catholics and Creationists who agree with them 100% regarding homosexuality and evolution.

so what? they're all a bit thick, and the world will just work past them regardless.

i just find it strange that people like you still see Bogey Men, and loose all sense of proportion as a result.

Here's a conspiracy theory for you... Guys like this are an MI6 honeypot operation. Set them up to do something completely outrageous, make sure it gets publicised and then find out which moths get attracted to the flame.

@swatantra
Choudary is a half-baked loon with delusions of grandeur. The problem is that the Government and media lend him an authority and seriousness he does not deserve when they give him house room and go around banning things associated with him. He can now turn to his followers as well as impressionable young people and say 'look - everything I told you is true - liberty is just a front, and the British state is actually an oppressive force'. And some might just believe him. If you treat him as if he's powerful, he'll acheive a degree of power. Far better to expose him for what he truly is - a hypocrite, a fantasisit, a bigot and a joke.

I recently saw a video of two Libyan toddlers who'd been maimed by NATO ordnance. One little girl had her lower jaw ripped off, and the other had her legs mangled. They lay in hospital, catatonic, I'm sure they're dead now.

I remember when the RAF bombed Zlitan in August, killing 85 civilians including children.

All us Brits can whine about is some burned poppies. Maybe we should introspect and ask ourselves where these poppy burners' views come from?

@Martin

Where do you get these videos?

In death in war is horrible and futile but it happens. But didn't the majority of Libyan people request Nato intervene to save them from worse slaughter?

I think you probably have better targets to pick if you want to find some kind of justification for Choudreys hate mob

What nonsense! Anjem Choudry is well known to be on MI5's payroll to stir up hatred and Islamophobia. He is obviously not a Muslim in any way, shape or form, and does not represent an iota of Islam. He is a hypocrite, an enemy of Islam. What he is doing is actually against the very fundamentals of Islam.

His collection of organisations, be it, HT, AM, MAC Islam4UK etc are either unbelievably naive, stupid or are paid agent provocateurs. These ridiculous and sinister organisations are fake and have only one obvious purpose.

There is much evidence of MI5 blackmailing vulnerable British Muslims, in order to spread propaganda. Anjem Choudary (like his mentor Omar Bakri) is an agent of MI5, he is used to portray Muslims as a threat in order to continue government policies of war in Muslim countries, as well as inciting divisions in society so people never focus their anger on the true blameworthy culprit, our government, but instead our focus is on each other.

The new MAC front is just another tool that the MI5 will use to cause further tensions between Muslims and Non-muslims in the UK.

It actually amazes me how no one sees this connection up to this point, even with his ability to walk around the streets without being attacked, his seemingly infinite amount of money to fund his subversive campaigns and roadshows, as well as the elephant in the room, the fact that no action is being taken against him. His arrest, or his house being raided is just a ploy, to appease the public and ensure that he remains dormant under the covers for a time, only to pop back out, when it's convenient for the MI5/government.

I would urge people of all faiths to understand that you are being manipulated, by MI5, to hate "the other". Laugh at Choudary for what he is, a cartoon character, a Muslim bogeyman under your bed, a puppet which has been set up. But focus on those who are pulling his strings.

Des Demona,

No, the majority of the Libyan people absolutely did not ask for intervention. The NATO-appointed NTC occupation council asked for it. The NTC is unelected and consists entirely of Western stooges. Myths such as the one you propagate are essential for these wars to be waged, and the Libya war is awash with such myths.

If you want to see the video, do a search for "British media use puppy dog imagery to sell genocidal attack on Libya".

Also I recommend "The Top Ten Myths of the Libya War" by Maximilian Forte.

I do wish mountains of red poppies had been burnt and replaced by the white poppies of peace. The red poppies are the symbol of wars that could have been avoided (yes it includes both world wars).Those who have died in Afghanistan and Iraq were professionals who trained to kill, they are not "our boys who died for our country". Let us stop glorifying war, especially the long one against the people of the Middle East, long subjected to colonialism.

Jankaas - you are seriously deluded, man!

The more Islam in any society (including in Muslim majority countries) the less freedom, human rights, freedom of speech, womens rights, gay equality, freedom from religion..and on and on and on.

The world Chaudhury and the miilions of Islamists want may be fine by you but progressive poeple like me will NEVER be in alliance with violent medievalism especially of the murderous Islamic kind.

Oh Nelson - Chaudhury et al are not just "buffoons" as you say, and nor was Hitler..laughing at him was the biggest mistake his enemies made. They underestimated the wide appeal of Fascism, just as you wilfully underplay the appeal (and danger) of radical extremist Islamism.

Whilst some Muslims amy disagree with his provocative actions, many Uk Muslims clearly support their aims - sharia law, punishment of unbelievers and blasphemers, against the UK in Afghanistan..MAC, like other extreme Islamic groups such as FOSIS, MAB, Islamic Forum Europe should not be underestimated - that fanatical Muslim woman who tried to murder Stephen Timms MP was a member of her local Islamic student group, and many would be and actual terrorists and jihadists have been through their ranks, or been directly influenced by them.

Dont downplay just how extreme many Muslims in the Uk actually are, MAC being just one example...