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Iran Watch, part 3.
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Tags: Iran Watch Iran Nuclear Israel media
I have just read the posting By Sir Michael. My heart goes out to him for his mental difficulties.
By all means Jerry criticise me, but base it on the content of my argument.
The Zionist lobby have scored a monumental own goal in making the case that I Mariella am deluded, mad, need to spend time in a psychiatric hospital, take time out etc etc. I rest my case!!!!!
@Mariella: Is the use of capital letters prefixing certain words in your posts, some sort of code? Are you sending messages to the Ayatollahs?
And what a delicious irony to see the haters out in force complaining about the BBC being allegedly soft on Israel after years of unbridled hostility towards her. It suited you then, didn't it? Now that there is a semblance of objectivity you make snarky comments. Ah...Diddums.
Jankaas is absolutely right. Israeli obsession with Iran is just a smokescreen. Iran would indeed be wiped off the face of the earth if it attacked Israel. America would make sure of that. The question then becomes: who profits from this perpetual warmongering. Secondly, why does Israel need a nuclear weapon unless it intends to use them. Both sets of scenarios are dangerous. The trouble is: who can stop Israel. If America cannot, who can????
Jankaas - of course israel should admit its nukes, have its nukes inspected, agree the NNPT, and - ideally- get rid of its nukes as part of a regional/global deal: that is common sense, to me...
Sir Michael - no need to over-react: I genuinely think "Mariella" has serious mental health issues and should seek psychiatric help. As Julia Harris stated, she rants like she is on the verge of detonating herself...and I do not think that is a healthy thing on an NS thread!
Thank you for outlining your own medical history - but I repeat that I do not use the term lightly, and have never before used it on NS posts, where I comment frequently..there are many rude, aggressive, vicious and offensive posters on NS threads that I disagree with, but "Mariella" is the only one I feel is seriously unwell and should seek help for this..it is not good to pander to the delusions of the unwell, and her posts are so deluded and deranged that one might think she is actually a Mossad/Shin Bet member herself, trying to make the palestinian cause seem crazy!
Re. Parkour Pete.
I am not looking for fans. You ahve closed your mind to the truth about Israel. You want to give Israel carte blanche to do as it pleases. I suspect that you, like Anthony and other Zionist supporters (though you cannot admit to it) want to see Iran wiped off the face of the map!!!!!
jankass, i was questioning your statement about supporting Israel bombing Iran on a moral ground if Iran attacked.
Of course that's all hypothetical.
Iran even if it did have, and i can see why it would desperately want it,it would not commit suicide.
It also strikes me that many here describe Iran as a theocratic state and the Grand ruler Khameni has passed numerous fatwas, decrying nuclear weapons, stating explicitly that its prohibited in Islam. This is the consensus of the vast majority of Muslim clerics.
It seems to me either Iran is not a real theocracy dictated by the clerics or we should welcome theocratic influence in Muslim countries as moderators for secular/nationalist warmongers.
Mariella "free democracy that you claim, how come Vanunu is not allowed to leave the state of Israel!!!!"
Tell me about it. In a true democracy people AREN'T just imprisoned - they might be told off and fined but never imprisoned. If only Israel could take a leaf out of an Arab country's book - they don't imprison people and stop them leaving the country.
Please answer me this Jankaas. If Israel uses its nuclear option to wipe Iran off the face of the map (including the 45 million Iranians who don't deserve to live anyway according to the Zionist diehards) what then? What comes next. Enslavement to Israeli hegemony???
So you inhabit a land from time immeorial. ALong comes a Europan settler community. Some 850,000 Palestinians are forced to flee and yet that is OK????
In response to Parkour Pete>
Name me one time where Israel has contributed to world peace.
In response to Pateroo. There are indeed two sides to every story. The trouble with the Israelis is that as long as they have military might and the support of the US they can and do exactley as they please. In 1967, the West Bank was predominantly Arab populated. Now there are some 500,000 Israeli settlers living on the land in what has been described by the UN as illegal settlements. How can you make peace or see two sides of the story when one side has all the power. What should the Palestinians do in this instance???
I'm glad Israel has an alleged nuclear capability. You can't live in a jungle like the Middle East with despots and neo-nazis and not have some sort of protection for yourselves. It's unfortunate and antisemites don't like it but that's life. With all the murderous calls for its destruction and threats to finish what Hitler started, the Jewish State is fully justified in keeping all its options.
Had a bit of deja vu there. You remind me of another poster on NS... ah yes, Marion was the name.
Keep going - you really are beginning to make me see things differently for the first time.
In response to Gerry:
It is clear you have not listened to a word that Sir Michael said about mental illness. YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!!!!
SO now you are an expert on mental illness and your comrade Julia.
09 March 2012 at 20:10"
what a rotten and spiteful post. totally uncalled for.
Israel is always looking for a bogeyman. Sooner or later the US will tire of Israel with its irrational demands.
There is no such thing as balance when one side is holding all the cards. The Palestinian people have shown tremendious dignity in the face of extreme violence from the Israelis. WHat other Arabs may or may not do is besides the point. None of the Arabs have strong armies. They key point here is when will Israel relent and allow Palestinians to live in a sate they can call theie own. Surely that is a basic human right: to live in dignity in a state of your own free from persecution or oppression.
Quite simple, the Israelis are the good guys, and good on them for protecting themselves with nukes
Ohhh look at little Medhi, thinks everyone else is an animal or cattle but the animals and cattle are far more developed than his fellow Islamic supremacists. Jealousy of the Israelis is only the most obvious facet of this psychopathy, self loathing and self pity follow soon after.
Your comments on Sir Michael go beyond the realms of decency. Do you really think you can win somebody over to your cause by using such base ugly reasoning. Where is your humanity? Where is your dignity> Where is your sensitivity?
I condemnd utterly and wholeheartedly such comments. SHAME ON YOU!!!!
As for Michael not condemning sufficiently points of view with which you do not agree, what you really mean is agree with me or else. If you do not agree with me I will rubbish you, I will demonise you, I will humiliate you. Need I go on!!!
I do hope that Sir Micheal has the sense to igore your spiteful comments.
Mariella, considering the number of Nobel prize winners from Israel compared with the number of winners from Arab countries, I'd say that Israel has done its fair share to contribute to the world.
Jackass, you obviously don't know the geography of Israel, the overall population and its concentrations.
You are also projecting your own ideas onto an apocalyptic Iranian/Islamic regime who want to bring forth the end of days and to becon the Shia Messiah, the Mahdi.
The Iranians would thus sacrifice however million in a nuclear exchange as they glorify in death and martyrdom. Israel being a tiny population and country couldn't probably absorb even 1 nuke.
Get your facts right please.
I appreciate your support. I refuse to be intimidated or deterred by hateful comments.
Mariella (Marion) your powers of prediction are predicated on wishful thinking. You may wish it to become a self-fulfilling prophecy but it won't.
@Mehdi Hasan: 'In fact, discussing Israel's secret nuclear weapons arsenal has long been a taboo for the west's media. It's as depressing as it is outrageous'
No mate, what's depressing and outrageous is the silence from the Left, e.g. Tony Benn, Tam Dalyel, Booth, Ridley and the others about Syria. Of course, for them any talk about Syria detracts from their hatred of Israel. No surprise there. Let's see the marches through London, then!
And why the silence from the 'Arab League'? Probably too busy in the casinos in Edgware Road and elsewhere.
Meanwhile, Israel offers Syrians humanitarian aid. And one wonders if Syria would offer the same if the roles had been reversed.
Only just come upon this article. It’s true, the BBC protect Israel from embarrassing questions because they are part of the apparatus which supports the Jewish state at any price. Ambassador Taub is a typical Israeli. A European (UK)Jewish immigrant under the, Jewish-only, right of return, denied by the Jewish state to those they ethnically cleansed. As for ‘jealousy’ of the success of Israel, it’s a childish argument and a bit dated, going back to the days when it was ‘poor little Israel’, alone against all those stupid Arabs. yes, no-one doubts their success. But Israel was put together by highly trained, educated and intelligent, ruthless European Jews, (who then, as now despise their jewish cousins from Arab countries), with the vast resources of European and American support, later unlimited US support and that of world Jewry. The Arabs were and are emerging nations, but they too have had a brilliant past. Israel’s racist mentors, Apartheid S.A., also displayed fantastic success in medicine (world’s first heart transplant), agriculture etc; and similar childish arguments were used in favour of their survival. But in the end, the apartheid state had to be dismantled, and was. Perhaps the greatest achievement one can admire in Israel, is its spectacular success in maintaining itself by terror. It gives succour to other terrorists.
I am still waiting for an answer to my question:
1. Name me a single contribution that Israel has made to world peace, human rights and justice.
2. WHy cannot Mordechai Vanunu the Israeli nuclear scientist leave the country.
The ignorance displayed about the Shia religion is breathtaking. I know of nowhere in the holy book where it states that Iran must sacrifice a million people in a nuclear war in order to achieve martydom. You must think we are fools!!!!!!!
What about Israel's nukes Mehdi? Whatever you may think of the Jewish State, the simple fact is this: Israel is a sane (albeit ruthlessly chippy) democracy with collective responsibility where the use of nuclear weapons is a defensive position of last resort in the face of existential threat. They take the western view of nuclear weapons, their procurement, development and deployment.
The Persian and many Arab governments do not. Because they are a dysfunctional blend of theocratic and totalitarian police states. They lack democratic checks and balances. They lack collective responsibility. They lack a cool head of consensus and reliably rational thinking. In short, they lack the self-control to wield the nuclear stick responsibly - because they may find themselves unable to resist trying to finish what Hitler and Stalin started. Can you put your hand on your heart and say that there is no risk of one or more 5 kiloton suitcase nukes finding their way to Tel Aviv, via Hamas and with love from Tehran? No you can't. Neither can the CIA, MI6 or Mossad.
There's no reason that a citizen should not own a firearm if he or she is can be relied on never to consider using it unless facing a life or death situation when faced by a similarly armed assailant on their own property. There's every reason that a psychotic mentalist should simply never own a firearm. You should bear the analogy in mind. You only have to look at how unpredictable and dangerous North Korea is, kept in its lunatic box only by the sharp elbows of China and the US.
Hitler was stopped before Heisenberg could deliver an operational weapon. There is no doubt that had Germany developed an operational bomb in the 1940s, Hitler would have used it in all theatres. I daresay you would have spent that period looking the wrong way, venting your ill-judged polemical spleen at the Manhattan Project ...
In response to JJ.
Israel has actually been supplying the rebels in SYria with weapons. I gather too that the Syrian activist Danny Haytem who was asking for Israeli help in the fight against Assad was doctoring and falsifying all his reports on CNN.
If Israel is such a brilliant country why are so many Israelis desparate to leave.
JJ 0- "Sir Michael has also insulted people on here, alluded to cognitive deficiencies of those people in his opinion, but heaven forfend that anyone should respond in kind to Sir Michael."
Cry me a river. I didn't fish for sympathy, nor does it make any difference to how I expect others to respond to my sophomoric idiocy. When I am an asshole (ohh and trust me, I can be), then call me out on it with as much acid wit as you can respond with.
The point is confusing mental health with "cognitive disabilites" means you're ignorant of mental health. It has no bearing on your intelligence or the lack therof. When I say something stupid or smart it is because I am being stupid or smart, it has nothing to do with being mentally ill.
Likewise, when I try to get outside and find myself having a severe anxiety attack, it's nothing at all to do with how intelligent or stupid I am.
"Also, he is a hypocrite in that he isn't sufficiently critical of some posters who have also made such comments to people in the 'opposing' camp. What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander."
Yeah, because the comment "are you insane?!" is pretty much the same as "I honestly believe that for your own sake you should consult a mental health professional because your views are so utterly beyond the realm of even poor judgement that the only logical conclusion is that they are the result of a sick mind".
The notion that the BBC is running scared from the "Israeli lobby" is absurd regurgitation of propaganda. And, as much as an argument can be made that Israel should be more transparent about their nuclear arsenal, it is quite clear that the purpose of that arsenal is defensive considering the fact that, unlike Iran, Israel doesn't go around threatening to wipe other countries off the map. They don't even want to talk about their nuclear weapons, just to let others know they exist for deterrent purposes. These bilious statements about Israel sending tanks into neighboring countries wherever and whenever they like is simply delusional. The wars they have fought with their neighbours, including Cast Lead, have come in response to direct attacks, with the exception of the 6 Day War, in which case the neighbours lined troops up at Israel's border and announced they would shortly be wiping Israel off the map. Has a certain resonance, doesn't it?
In response to JJ. ARe you some frontrunner for Mark Regev. Indeed so peace loving is the state of Israel, that you murdered the only leader capable of bringing about peace: none other than Rabin!! You murder your own when the message does not fit.
The Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamanei downwards the Iranian regime is dominated by people (adherents of a sect called the ‘Twelvers’) who believe that the Shia messiah, the Mahdi, will return to earth either as result of or to bring about the apocalyptic end of days. It is that apocalypse that they are intent upon facilitating. That is why the argument that ‘they wouldn’t dare launch a nuclear attack because they know half of Iran would be obliterated as a result’ is so fatuous. They would be happy if that were to occur.
"Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi, an influential cleric and a radical Twelver, previously had stated that Khamenei ascends to the sky every year to take direction from Imam Mahdi, and sources close to the cleric have disclosed that Khamenei has been ordered by Imam Mahdi to continue with the nuclear program despite worldwide objection as it will facilitate his coming.
Last March, a Iranian secret documentary, “The Coming Is Upon Us,” was revealed to depict Khamenei as the mythical figure who creates the environment for the reappearance of Mahdi by leading Iran to destroy Israel."
I concur absolutely. It is shameful the way that the BBC kowtows to Israel's every demand. A state founded upon only a Jewish right of return is surely racist. Despite the timidity with which Paxman approached the ambassador, I wager that the BBC received a torrent of complaints from the Zionist lobby. I agree with the asertion that Israel has prevailed because of its ruthless suppression of internal and external dissent. Having the ear of the US president has been hugely beneficial. The key question here though is as Pax American and Britanica power starts to wain, who can Israel rely on. Will Russia, China and Brazil offer Israel the same support.
In response to Thursby:
1. Why does the BBC go out of its way not to offend Israel or its supporters.
2. WHo is going to force Israel to be transparent about its nuclear weapons.
3. The Israeli army got a good beating from Hizbollah
4. So in response to hand held primtive missile attack, it is OK to drop half a tonne of weapons on Gaza.
5. The truth is that Israel wants to wipe Arab Palestine off the face of the map and refuses to acknowledge that Palestinians do have rights.!!!!
@ Mariella, Gerry gave a reasoned and adult response, if you cant respond in a grown up way then you are confirming what many think about you i.e that you are unhinged. I think its you who "JUST DOESN'T GET IT!!!!"
The point of calling someone Nuts or Mad is sometimes necessary as it helps us understand if the person is worth listening to or if they are being not rational.
@ Sir Michael, I'm sorry to hear about your mental health issues (even tho I disagree with almost everything you say and think) I think Gerry was being genuine in his diagnosis of Mariella and didn't mean to insult anyone with MH issues.
There have been many horrible insults banded around on these forums and since non of us really know who we are speaking with there is an assumption that insults are in the heat of the moment and throw away. The rate at which threads come and go, is abit like speed insulting, so take it with a pinch of salt and move on.
@Mariella - "I do hope that Sir Micheal has the sense to igore your spiteful comments."
Consult my post above to see that I didn't have this sense. Sense isn't my strong point - my encyclopedic knowledge of crappy movies and my love of bananas are.
Gerry - "Sir Michael - just read "Mariella's" posts again, not just the content but the tone - and even you must conclude her posts are seriously unhinged, hysterical, deranged. If she really exists, and means what she says, then I do think she should seek psychiatric help....other posters have made pro-Palestinian or anti-Israel posts in rational, calm and passionate ways, but "she" clearly cant...it is not stigmatising people with serious mental health issues - like you say you have - to calmly point out how disturbed this poster appears to be, and "she" does genuinely appear to be"
Maybe she lives in one of the countries effected, has relatives there, or is otherwise an immigrant from one of the places under threat. You know that if war happens a lot of people who have done nothing wrong will die.
The Republican debates in the USA have been about gay marriage, contraception, and who flip flops, all to determine which extremely wealthy and well protected person will lead a very well protected and wealthy nation. In Iran people may soon be huddled in their homes while supersonic jets fly high above them, dropping explosives and deadly chemicals right into cities where people live. Kids going to school, doctors going to work, old people looking after cats and young people walking their dogs. Many going to die or be injured because of idiotic leaders in three or more countries who enjoy playing wargames and getting votes and/or adoration from the more gulliable members of their population.
I'd say not getting emotional and angry at the whole business is worse than dispassionately thinking "hmmm... well yes this is bad but the people can just breed a few more of themselves later".
That aside, I won't try to educate you on what mental illness is a third time. Suffice to say, she's talking about Israel and Iran while you are talking about her mental state. Just who is more on topic here? Who do you think is coming across as the person more focused on the actual issues to an impartial observer?
We should start a campaign: FREE MORDECHAI VANUNU
All I have tried to do in my posts is stick to what are the key issues in the debate about Israel and Iran. I have raised the Palestine question too because I do believe that these issues are interlinked.
Spare a thought for those who have been on the receiving end of US, NATO or Israeli Bombs. I heard on RussiaToday that Israel has requested the US send their bunker busting bombs for use in the war with Iran. Spare a thought for those Iranians who will be on the receiving end of the new 30000-pound bomb.
I suppose using the logic employed by some commentators, the Iranians deserve it!!!!!
Yet again we see evidence here of making up facts to support a particulr argument. I have read the Quran and Shia writings. There is no evidence whatsover to support the idea that nuclear weapons can be used in any war. Indeed nuclear weapons are considered haram. It is only in Israel that we see many calling for Israel to use the nuclear option against Iran. Surely that is immoral: under what circumstances is it acceptable to attack another nation with nuclear weapons.
Mariella, I'm told that getting a day job can help fill those long empty hours. It might be a preferable alternative to obsessive rants and monomaniacal postings about how evil Israel is. And if that doesn't suit you, ever thought about a change of scenery? I hear Sudan, Syria, Lebanon, Turkmenistan, Russia, and - wait for it - Iran could all benefit from some screaming from the rooftops. The Israel-screamers seem to have filled the quota.
The Shia religion has existed for thousands of years. I know of no part of the religion which calls upon Shias to attack Israel. That is an ABSOLUTE LIE.
Take note readers on Zionost strategy@
1. Use false information
2. Demonise and rubbish opponents.
3. Insult Muslims
4. Trash at every opportunity any support for Palestinians.
HOW CAN YOU MAKE PEACE WITH A COUNTRY LIKE THAT!!!!!!!
Mariella = Marion = Jenny Tonge
This is really grand of you to recognize that sciences are beyond the petty matter of ethnicity. Or you still want to boast about the number of Jewish Noble Prize winners (mostly of European extraction) as compared to the truly native inhabitants of ME? Relax – Einstein was not fond of creating an ethnocentric state of Israel.
Mythology can be amusing and even flattering, yet the inconvenient truth is that modern Israel is an invented country with an invented national language. This statement goes not contradict to recognition of the great achievements by the best Jewish minds.
Unfortunately, Likud is intellectually and morally deprived and this can lead to a real tragedy.
@Gerry - "but I repeat that I do not use the term lightly"
For the love of...
Mental illness has about as much to do with ones stance on geopolitical issues as having a broken leg does. Don't you understand that? You keep on repeating the mantra that Mariella is mentally ill. In other words, sick. Symptoms - "disagreeing with me". You know who else had this attitude?
As I tried to explain - being mentally ill doesn't make on an extremist. It doesn't even inform your political opinion beyond the treatment of mental illness in society and politics (my views on the welfare reform bill are very strong). Mental illness has NOTHING to do with the contents of her posts. NOTHING. You're using it either as a cheap ad hominem, or you really are that ignorant.
That aside, I'd love to know just what it is about Mariellas posts that might cause one to take the extreme proposition that she is in any way delusional. I myself disagree with her general implication that the Palestinian leadership are ready for serious concessions I think on a lot of things she has made excellent points.
When Israel violates human rights law there is little to no action taken against it. We are threatening to obliterate Iran *on the suspicion* of something. Look at this...
That is a Palestinian child tied to the front of an Israeli military vehicle. Had that been, for example, an Israeli child tied to a Katyusha rocket launcher then it would have been used as justification to flatten the entire region with carpet bombing. That isn't to say that the Arab world isn't mired in despotism and human rights violations, but in international politics there is a serious disparity between what Israel is allowed to do and what other nations of the Middle East are allowed to do, largely thanks to the United States.
As a Lebanese journalist once said, one or two more victories like the one Hezbollah achieved and there won't be anything left of Lebanon.
What a strange world we live in when Jews fleeing from the Holcaust go on to practice ethnic cleansing on the indigenous Arab population. Ironic???
If you feel so passionate about Israel, why not go and live there and serve in the army as I believe you are entitled to do. As for comparison with Jenny Tonge, and Marion I am truly flattered!!!
great, here we go again....i did think you were cured of your compulsion to amuse yourself this way? but whatever dear, on to your rant;
"you obviously don't know the geography of Israel, the overall population and its concentrations."
better than you dear. am fully aware of the borders and illegal settlements etc
"You are also projecting your own ideas onto an apocalyptic Iranian/Islamic regime who want to bring forth the end of days and to becon the Shia Messiah, the Mahdi."
and you dear, project your notion that everything they say they, not only mean, but would be able to carry out.
"The Iranians would thus sacrifice however million in a nuclear exchange as they glorify in death and martyrdom."
that's you projecting your sexy murder fantasy again. evidence pls of the en masse desire for martyrdom in the Iranian peoples, since historically they don't attack others. ever.
"Israel being a tiny population and country couldn't probably absorb even 1 nuke."
more of your usual guess work dressed up as fact? and of course if you are correct then an Iranian nuke would end up killing the Arab neighbours, which may not be such a goood idea?
"Get your facts right please."
that's hilarious dear, absolutely hilarious coming from you.
Mehdi Hasan is a contributing writer for the New Statesman and the co-author of Ed: The Milibands and the Making of a Labour Leader. He was the New Statesman's senior editor (politics) from 2009-12.