Shit, I just read back what I wrote...seems my comment of 10:04 could be interpreted as implying Dianne Abbott is s member of an 'intelligentsia'...mind you, at least she wasn't dumb enough to send her kid to the local school...like I did with mine.

'Education, education, education'...'safe in our hands'...it's like the closing page of Animal Farm when the faces blur and you can't tell the right-wing free-marketers from the...erm..Tories any more...and writers at the NS come along to assure us it's business as usual by finding the slightest crack between the two to insert a specious 'partisan' argument.

Is anybody commenting here a qualifeid teacher? I doubt you are Spud as the comment on rote learning (only works for a very small amount of tasks and borders on useless as a technique for getting people to actually understand things). Also, you really seem to have cracked it there with your abc of causes it's full of insights on the matter that only a seasoned professional could provide. Translated it sounds something like this a)they're thick becasue they just are okay and no amount of 'teaching' can solve that problem for thoee retards;might as well shoot them at birth b) those feckless parents should make sure they provide their child with skills that tend to be provided by educational establishments c)I have no belief whatever in any problems that have been identified after the year 1874. Now, where's my penny farthing?

As for you characterisation of my 'abc', I'll assume that your inability to argue with them other than by producing a wildly-distorted parody means I've pretty much nailed it.

"a)they're thick becasue they just are okay and no amount of 'teaching' can solve that problem for thoee retards;might as well shoot them at birth"
I said in a, some people always fail in any educational system...always have, always will, everywhere. You disputing that? My point is that pretending they've actually succeeded by designing silly courses which also disadvantage other more able students by failing to stretch them is scandalous. The 'retards' and 'shooting at birth' are products of your own projection.

"c)I have no belief whatever in any problems that have been identified after the year 1874."

OK, tell me about ADHD...look at the figures, 5 years back every kid and his dog had it...where is it now?

Seen the figures for dyslexia?...explain them: other than 'kid's aren't learning-let's make our excuses by pathologising it'.

And 'dumbing down' the curriculum wasn't discovered after 1874, it was always an option. It's just that it was always seen as a idiotic, self-deluding, socially-destructive and calamitous thing to do before league-table manipulation became a political necessity.

I think the main reason for the initial public support for academies, which is now, admittedly and rightly, declining was that parents were sold on the lie that at last their children could enjoy the sort of education enjoyed by, say, Tony Blair's, Harriet Harman's Dianne Abbott's or Polly Toynbee's kids.

I can't believe people aren't seeing the real issue here (though I understand why Medhi Hassan doesn't).

More religion in schools means more segregation and more brainwashing of our children. In a country where 1 in 7 claim to be religious, we are opening academies where 50% of them are from faith based groups. Giving the rational amonst us less choice of where to send our children, unless we want them to believe in flying horses or men in clouds.

Disgraceful.

It must be tiring rrguing until you're red in the face (or at least have sore fingertips-from typing) about things you know nothing about. In fact, it's terrifying to see the knee jerk bile that comes out around education. If you don't know enough about it at least go and find out a little something instead of 'my two peneth worth' comments that indicate you think you have the solution to something you have know decent knowlegde of. The point on rote helps to demonstrate that amply. It's clear it's of use for some things but there is a limited scope to its application, that's all you need to understand. I'll tell you wahat, go and teach a class and see how far you get with that. That's the only way you're ever going to see you're wrong (as you are on just about everything else-get some fresh air and learn about life instead of pushing bile on the NS website).

@ hugh markey
the eastern bloc and especially the Russian were brilliant engineers- indeed their ingenuity (in the full sense of that word) helped delay the inevitable outcome of the arms race with US.
Money has nothing to do with education- absolutely nothing. An as for motivation, they come here thinking this is the land of milk and honey- i was told that 2 days ago!
I have to go to India or SA to see that... maybe i'm spoilt now...
Anyway, off to spend the habitual couple of hours on saturday with the kids with some collins maths and reading and writing books, age 5-7. She LOVES it!
And now her brother is starting on them as well, the more the merrier. The bairn looks on in her high chair, happy to be part of the bustle...
And someone here earlier questioned my credentials as a teacher... HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAH!!!

You keep singing Spud. You're hitting all the right notes. 'abc' worked for me. I'll give you one of my own.

a) Half the clowns on here are either public school or from some leafy burg. There's 'state schools' and state schools. Some where the kids are dopped off in audis and Porches and send 10 kids to Oxbridge every year and some where your lucky to get out with a reading age higher than your shoe size. The ones who tell you to shut it don't want change. They don't want their own kids playing on a level pitch.

b) They don't like acadamies cos they've got mates from college who work for local authority who pat the proles on the head and keep them sweet with dodgy qualifucations and self-esteem boosting lessons.

c) Parents who neglect their kids need shaming. This lot can't say so because they think it makes them Tories/fascists. Scum is scum whatever the economic status. If they were real socialists they'd have read their Marx. He didn't hold back on the proles, not the lumpen variety least ways.

Don't listen Spud. Keep it up.

jankass

"i thought that was an excellent post, but it's buried in a sea of, erm...., more posts that aren't as tight."

cheers and I know you're not too happy when I second guess your motives, but it's not as though it's ever stopped me before...anyway, when you say that some weren't as tight, would you be referring from the ones which kinda departed from the cosy liberal orthodoxies and niceties...the castigating of sloppy parenting, doubts cast on the sudden ubiquity of learning disorders, useless curricula etc?

You see, if you were, then I've gotta say that these are the things that are holding bright working class kids back in the name of inclusivity or whatever the latest mushy buzzword is. Let me illustrate, and first say that I'm not advocating a return to grammar schools. At age 11, I'd estimate every secondary school has at least 4-5%...most many more...kids arriving from all backgrounds with top scores in their KS2 Sats tests. With the right parental encouragement and help, kids from the most deprived backgrounds can still arrive on a par with the brightest kids from 'nice areas'

@Spud & Awake

Rote learning clearly worked well for you as you're both so erudite and give such compelling evidenced based analysis of the situation.

Rote learning is only effective for a tiny number of things to apply it across the board is mind numbingly stupid. Mind you, if you'd been taught properly you'd have the critical skills to work that out for yourself.

@Awake
"It's obvious rote assists" Seems, to me at least, to be implying that rote learning has assited you in your ascent to greatness. Alongside the bile that has 'theories' you clearly know nothing about as being worthless against the judgement of a headmaster. You're setting rote up as the superior form of learning-in very few circumstances is that the case.It's also rather presumptuous to think that when someone has explained something they think they understand (but don't-Spud's explanation of rote)that they are doing so do someone who has a lesser grasp on it than they do. It would seem to be a case of a fool not grasping that they are a fool because they have not the wit or wherewithal to do so. A lesson you'd do well to take heed of.

'You're setting rote up as the superior form of learning'
No I'm not.
I said
'It's obvious rote assists'
You don't think creating memory data points assists in some subjects? Or is it just too much hard work for you to sit with the kids and spend the time making sure they fulfill their potential? You have more important things to do like watch telly or go to a pub I guess?

"jankass"

do mind my bottom Spud, thanks...

"You see, if you were,..."

but i wasn't. i just thought that your 10:04 post was tight as a gnats so and so. it hit several nails firmly on the head; denial, foreign educationalists, idiot left to blame, dumbing down, left-liberal intelligentsia.

i also wholly agree that parental involvement can make or break the child. all the Ofsted fannying about can't change that truism.

Sparrow's gusset
u keep dumbing them down, see how far that gets u in the new system where clown teachers who can't command a classroom get sacked.

You can't have your cake and eat it. You either have a drive for quality or you have a drive for equality. Quality means setting standards that only a percentage are capable of meeting. Equality requires lowering standards to have a much higher pass rate to get 40% at university. For well over a decade the real policy has been equality. Hence the creation of mickey mouse GCSES to make schools look good. UK Universities have to lower the maths standards for engineering degrees so an overseas graduate will have higher skills. Politicians have to spin that they are are all out to improve quality. The fact the UK relentlessly falls down world performance tables as you would expect from a drive for equality proves the spin. The public are not fooled shown by their low belief.

Amazingly, I agree with a lot of what Spud says (badly). I agree with the idea that there is educational apartheid in this country and THAT IS the elephant in the room.
I hate the way working class kids are patronised and the way the curriculum has been dumb downed for them, to pacify them into thinking they are successful when they are not, and for political advantage.
Meanwhile the rich continue to send their kids to schools which deliver a traditional curriculum with proper disciplines, not Mickey mouse crap. That makes me very angry. It is selling those poor kids down the river and make sure they never rise above their station. People responsible for this social engineering MUST know what they are doing. It is now the way the governing classes keep the working classes in their place, by leaving them in ignorance and therefore in poverty.
My point was the Academies are NOT the answer.I agree with Gove (what?) when he is trying to get rid of Mickey Mouse subjects on the curriculum, but I profoundly disagree with the setting up of academies and so-called "free-schools". They are dangerous and divisive and will not raise standards.A dangerous experiment which will take years to rectify.
Before some smug teacher comments I don't know what I'm talking about, I'll only say I know the world of education inside out in this country.

The left would do themselves a favour to hijack the effective grammar school system, given the amount of cynicism people show towards the phoney egalitarian comprehensive system. Cameron's Tories seem uninterested in grammar schools and more interested in weird ideas like free schools and academies. So why aren't left-wing commentators trying to nudge the Labour party towards the direction of grammar schools? Academies are certainly not the cure, but sometimes you get the impression that left-wing commentators are in total denial about the disastrous mess in education imposed by Labour

Labour can boast all they like using manipulative lies, damned lies and statistics about record-breaking results etc, but International tables show that British education is slipping, and university professors only confirm this. It's time we get rid of grade inflation, corrupt teaching to the test (effectively cheating which politicians take advantage of to boast about A and B grades). While we're at it, we could bring back selection and higher standards to allow gifted pupils to flourish and to find useful things for less academically gifted folks to do, rather than pushing them into a rubbish university on a rubbish course. Then people might stop complaining about not being able to communicate with their local plumber, gas engineer or builder because they can't speak Polish.

There is something seriously wrong with your system NS!!
It says that my comment was rejected because it appears to be spam! What is that about??
I am not in the habit of writing bad language and I am truly puzzled. This is extremely annoying as it was a long comment.
You have a seriously rubbish system.

Fiona Millar?

Hahahahahahaha

couple of moves which are very positive

1) rating schools from "satisfactory" to "requires improvement" - we should demand more.

2) computer courses being changed from mind numbingly boring courses to innovation/creativity led courses.

For a child to learn you first have to make the subject interesting. The comments above tend to leave the greatest of examples out of the equation and that is the teacher. Most from what I see these days find it difficult to identify with working class kids. They come from totally different backgrounds. The classroom today is usually filled with 'teachers assistants'(the worker) with a technician teacher (the quality controller) rolling out the curricular. The classroom from what I see has become the old factory conveyor belt system with falsification of exam results to meet the 'acceptable standard mark'. The understanding is to make sense of and to draw reasoning from different subjects. In Brazil for example some of the street children that I met had no school education whatsoever but they could accurately calculate, draw, paint, make cars; and yet they could neither read nor write. The problem with education is that it is either driven by the politician or the pastor with very little thought of the needs of the child.

If anyone is making sense it's Daniele; her comments are well written succinct and to the point.

Awake:

'skills gap widening'
Why would this be? What has happened to the skills base since the 1980's? And who do you think is responsible?

'Britain's education system is failing both business and its workers, a group of leading employersincluding Adecco...cisco...'
In what way does this failure inhibit business?

At talent automotive, which seeks to take on 25-30 apprentices a year, they have found it hard to fill the places and only took 9 out of the 12 they would have needed at their Cannock facility.
Why was it hard to fill the places?

25% of employers say BASIC numeracy and LITERACY is lacking, 36% of employers think the education system as a whole fails to meet the needs of employers today.
Only a quarter? How big was the sample? The Moser report put's basic numeracy and literacy among working adults at a far higher % than you quote. The sample was taken over a European %.

This can't carry on if we want to maintain a decent welfare and NHS service.
So where does the blame lay?
"To be an advanced economy needs big salaries and the tax receipts.
Who pays little or no tax in the so called 'advanced economy'.Could it be the same people who defy their workforce(s) of decent salaries?

Just in case you've missed the point. Have a look at what some of these wealthy companies are paying young workers and those on JSA. in their stores.