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Tags: Palestine Ed Miliband Nick Clegg Israel
Clear off with your whataboutery, Sally. Mehdi Hasan thinks non-Muslims are filthy cattle and Jenny Tonge is a vile anti-s - oh, "anti-Zionist" is the polite term isn't it? There is no place for either of these views in decent democratic discourse.
@willoyen Arrrr my friend willoyen, the one man keyboard warrior against all things nationalistic.
Been numerous articles on Scottish nationalism and the independence question, but not seen you around, or is it only predominantly English nationalism you have a problem with ? funny that.
5th column scum like i first thought.
@Marion "You just can't take it Pete can you."
When have I written that I 'can't take it'?
Interesting. You assume anyone who isn't rabidly anti-Israel must be rabidly anti-Palestinian.
you said From this and your last post one gets the impression you're very emotional about the Palestinians but less so (if at all) with regard to the victims of Assad.
the article is about Palestine. is it so hard to understand why Syria is not the focus here.
thats the problem with many here, they conflate problems and issues, totally unrelated just so that they can make sense of it all. Maybe your desire to cnostantly put problems into boxes is the problem. They world doesn't represent your mind, you create the world in your mind.
KaiserFranzJoseph - You are the first Stalinist apologist I have come across on the NS site. It is astonishing that you lay the blame for all the Soviet casualties in WW2 at the feet of Nazi Germany the more so since the Soviet showed that they were capable of murdering millions of their own people long before Hitler came to power. I could point out some things you have omitted from your post but I am sure you will simply blame it on the Germans or the British or the French, anyone but the sweet and kindly Soviets. Aggressive Soviet attacks on Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Finland and Romania in 1939/40 you seem to excuse as essentially defensive moves which is as much a minority view now as it was then. MVD troops killed fighting the UPA and Forest Brothers would not have died had not the Germans invaded, neither would the Cossacks and Vlassov troops have been slaughtered if the beastly huns had not attacked the peace loving Soviet Union had they remained good Soviet citizens.
As for the Greeks, they have to a great extent brought this pain upon themselves since they should not have been in the Euro zone in the first place (indeed they were only allowed into the EU for political reasons - remember that nasty military dictatorship they had?). You may have read that the Germany did not pay reparations to the Greeks after WW2 but it is simply not true (it is interesting to note that they make no mention of reparations from the Italians and Bulgarians). Germany paid Greece the equivalent of more than 4.4 billion euros in formal war reparations and compensation for slave laborers. That certain Greek politicians care to raise this issue now merely serves to show that they are moral dross trying to divert attention away from their own corruption an incompetence by playing to the prejudices of the masses. Some of the articles and images about Germany and Angela Merkel in the Greek press in recent weeks have been nothing short of disgusting and should ensure that most Germans will stay away from Greece this summer further weakening the Greek tourist industry. Allied "generosity" to Germany post-war was in reality born out of self interest since it needed Germany as a trading partner and also needed them to make money to pay the vast billions they have paid out in reparations. In contrast the Soviet Union/Russia has not paid a brass farthing to any of its countless victims.
The rest of your post about "The Hun is up too his old tricks again" is pure Daily Mail racism of the sort now also being inflicted on the Scots also. It may please a certain type of Little Englander but personally I find it quite sickening.
Maximillian - I thought all the Zionist Judeofascist fuckwits were having the night off.
@Agoodword "Maybe your desire to cnostantly put problems into boxes is the problem. They world doesn't represent your mind, you create the world in your mind"
Er, no I don't think so. Marion brought up Syria with reference to 'Wee Willy Hague' and I responded.
JJ - Your "interest" is nakedly disingenuous, however I think I have covered the "sacrifices" of the Soviet Union in WW2 in an earlier post. You may recall that the Soviet Union was an ally of Nazi Germany and some of it sacrificies were incurred attacking Poland, Finland and the Baltic States. Also the NKVD and other Soviet agencies accounted for significant numbers of their own losses counted as "victims of fascism" when, in fact, they were nothing of the sort. The unpleasant truth about WW2 is that the western powers had to ally themselves to one tyranny to rid the world of another.
funny tweet from Harry Cole :
Ah dear, @ns_mehdihasan comes out to bat for Tonge, twenty mins later she is goner...
LOL, what idiots, I have written 2 lengthy posts and the response I get is that I have got nothing to say, fools.
Shame none of you were able to enter into an adult conversation and dispute or challenge anything I said, I win. All Marion has done is post a few vague and general comments.
I am for 2 states as are the Israeli government. negotiations and comprise's will need to be made on both sides. The Palestinians in the west bank have a good economy, shame Hamas/Gaza cant act the same way, but then the destruction of Israel is what they seek.
Why don't you just declare your hand Pete? Come clean for once. You are an avowed supporter of Israel and will not tolerate along with your diear friend Julia any criticism of Israel. Forget about all the obfuscation. Anyone with half a brain can see what you are up to. Face it, the time when the Israel/ Zionist lobby could dominate the news agenda are long gone.!!!
No Arminius I'm not a fascist. I don't stone women to death, hang Gays, sentence Christians to death for 'blasphemy', butcher a million innocent Hindus and Sikhs to create a Moslem only state in apartheid Pakistan, or kill 400,000 innocent blacks in Sudan, or lash people for drinking alcohol or cut of people's head or their arms or pray to a pedophile rapist 'prophet'.........
The trouble with Julia and Pete is that you know what they are going to say beofre they even say it. Plagiarism which is Julia's speciality is not very enlightning. As for talk of compromise, does that mean that all the settlements on the West Bank wll be dismantled?? and all the illegal 500.000 settlers re located to Tel Aviv!!!!!
As soon as some one mentions Israel, some people go crazy and try to defend the atrocities Israel is committing against Palestine. Yes Mehdi only commented what Baroness Tonge raised, which is sensible and valid argument. No injustice and occupation lasts ever and the Israelis have to realise before it is too late. As always justice prevails, the oppressors whether those perpetrated slavery or apartheid came to an end and those committing modern day occupation will have to acknowledge it will end up the same way. Their discourse is one equal to apartheid and in some cases worse, and it is one based on subjugating and occupying Palestine. Incase those who become hysterical when the Israel‘s cruel treatments against Palestinians is mentioned, let me remind them that Israel occupies Palestine more than half a century and it is the longest occupation in the modern history. Further more Israel refused to withdraw from the Palestinian territory and repeatedly ignores numerous United Nation’s resolutions, calling Israel to withdraw the occupied land and allow Palestinian refugees to come back to their home land, which Israel forcefully evicted. The true solution to this deep conflict between Israel and neighboring Arab countries is, Israel to comply the UN resolutions and withdraw from the occupied land without condition. If Israel does that, it will lead to two states, Israel and Palestine side by side in harmony and prosperous life.
Mehdi, a bi-national, secular, democratic state in Israel-Palestine would be a very progressive solution indeed. But look at Yugoslavia, the former Soviet Union, Sudan and even Belgium, and all you see is mutual distrust and even hatred
Is it realistic to expect palestinians and israelis to coexist after six decades of conflict, when Tito´s heroic efforts in Yugoslavia and the post-war achievements of his country ended in thousands of victims of religious/ethnic hatred? Or Sudan, where two countries now replace what used to be one, and where ethnic and religious hatred led to systematic bloodshed?
Even in Belgium, the unity of the state is just surviving historical national hatreds based in language, ethnicity and religion.
Would´nt it be more realistic and progressive to support two-states in Israel-Palewstine, which could eventually become a federal structure if conditions allow it?
Jerusalem's Mayor has declared that Palestinians living outside of the wall will be transferred to the West Bank civil administration resulting in a further 70,000 individuals being effectively barred from the city.
Meanwhile, Israel is planning to demolish homes in Silwan neighbourhood - evicting over 1,000 Palestinian residents - the biggest mass demolition planned since 1967.
Many Palestinians, at least 14,000 according to the UN, have had their right to live in Jerusalem taken away from them. Those born and raised in the city are being told by Israeli officials they can't enter the city without a special permit. This is wrong.
The vast majority of Palestinian Christians and Muslims living in the West Bank and Gaza are denied the right to religious freedom by being refused access to Jerusalem to pray and worship.
The British public should speak out against these and the inhuman treatment of the Palestinians by the Zionist regime.
The British public should call for the UK Government to work with the UN to ensure that the state of Israel recognizes its responsibilities under international law to Jerusalem as a shared city, sacred to Jews, Muslims and Christians and ends its occupation of East Jerusalem.
There is no free speech and expression in the UK and world anymore, Muslims have seen to that...
Draw a cartoon, people are killed and riots ensue. Criticize Islam for promoting violence, hatred and human rights abuses and your a fascist Islamphobic bigot and receive death threats.
You can burn any book apart from 1 and no one will do anything. Burn a Koran and people are killed and riots ensue. However when Muslims chuck Korans in raw sewage nothing is said. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69VIER7nzz8
The 'ONLY' country that is regularly Questioned about its right to exist and is then is also threaten by terrible Uber left Jew hating nut jobs is Israel. But Jews are used to it, take it on the chin and let people make there minds up about what is said.
People see it for what it is, no riots, no deaths, just a political one, she said those words.
There are the journalist equivalents of Tonge who write for the NS - Hassan, Ben White, Yo Sushi, Shackle, and more probably who all hate Israel with a passion and are obsessed but it, ultimately they would love to see its end and an Arab state is it place to join the wicked and evil regimes that exist there. Then there would be a wake up call...err what the Fuk have we supported, what have we done...the Palestinians are just like the rest of them!!!!
The Issue of Islam, the terror, the human rights abuse's in its name, the lack of rights for women, minorities and killing of gays, honor killings that affect the entire region and anyone living under the control of a Muslim country gets fudged. Its fudged into Arab spring psycho babble, all because of Iraq why Muslims act like that, not there fault, all because of settlements why Hamas call for all Jews to die, fuking insane bullshit.
The truth is, the Arab nations have been the biggest fuk up and failure in the world for the last 200 years. Its the sheer jealousy of Israel, its success coupled with the verses of violence and hate against Jews directly mandated from the Koran that drives the agenda against Israel.
Its nothing to do with settlements but for those same writers above, to admit to these truths would mean looking at the big picture and calling it how it is, something those blinkered and biased journalist with agenda's cant entertain.
The digusting cutting of the key phrase which damned Lady Tonge by a supposedly left wing newspaper such as The Guardian shows that they have given considerable ground the powerful Zionist lobby. This constituency, we know, pays large sums of money to people whose job it is to call and harass and court the media.
There is little real debate in this country, almost all publications have defended the status quo and misrepresented this woman's opinions, effectively lying for the protection of a horrific, Apartheid state. It's shameful.
you make good points but the point about Palestine is detached from reality. As i've said in my other posts in greater detail, who has made two state solution a physical impossibility.
Palestinians cannot freely move in their own land, they have no access to their own resource. Israel has been pulling all the significant shots for decades and its Israel that has the power and the means, because its them who are in control.
and what have they done, they've built more and more settlements, expeleld more and more Palestinians, demolished more and more homes, built an illegal wall, stolen 80 percent of palestinian water, i could go on and on.
Maximillian - Neither do I but lets face it, you are a racist Zionist bigot not so much with a screw loose but barely a single screw tightened.
A point of clarification is needed re.Gaza. I must dispel the myth and bare faced lie that Israel left Gaza. The Israelis have never left GAZA!!!! The Israeli army controls all of the entries and exit points, bar the Rafah crossing. The Israelis control the sea crossing points. Further the Israelis control the air space and can and do regularly invade Gazan airspace and carry out extra judicial killings. The Israeli army makes use of drones which it flies over Gaza 24 hours per day. In addition the Israeli army bombed Gaza airport (paid for by EU grants costing 100 million dollars and destroyed the Gaza seaport(costing 200 million dollars paid for by the EU. In addition Israel controls all goods going into the Gaza strip so that businesses cannot flourish. Finally the Israelis destroyed th Gaza TV stations. Need I go on. It is important to note that ten years ago substantial gas reserves were discovered by British Gas on the Gaza shoreline. Clearly the Israelis want to get their hands on this and did everything in their power to prevent British Gas from developing this gas field. I rest my case.
Dear Mehdi, don't bother arguing for better education of the Muslim World to get as many Nobel Prizes as your Jewish bethren.
Just campaign for the addition of a new Nobel category: Fallacy.
'..Or we could burn down the Reichstag then cart them all off to Dachau and Sachsenhausen. Zieg Heim dem Juedischen Herrenvolk!!'
You don't do yourself any favours Arminus with your Jews as Nazis routine. It makes you sound like a fool trying to be clever. Obviously you're trying to be insulting but the 'ZioNazi' pudding has been well over egged.Why not cut to the chase and just shout 'Kike'out of your bedroom window. Nice use of German language though. Just add ''Schweinhund'' and ''Donnervetter'' for a more realistic WW2 wartime feel.
The manner in which succesive Israeli governments have over the years tried to erase Muslim and Christaian identity in East Jerusalem is truly frightening. Re. Peace talks, the Israelis will never come to the table as long as they feel they have the upper hand, counting on US support. When this support finishes Israel will be forced to make hard choices for peace!!!
Arminius said@16:11,' As for Churchill, by 1945 he realised that in siding with the Soviet Union against Germany he had "slaughtered the wrong pig".'
Arminius- you are a falsifier of history.
Tonge is shameful Baz - wake up
It seems to me that it is NOT Israel's action that trouble some here, but her simple existence.
If sometime in the future Israel made peace with the Palestinians then some here would still rant on.
They seem more concerned with the very existence of Israel and Israelis rather than any misdemeanours that it has carried out.
That is worrying.
It is the Ken O'Keefe type of thinking.
Re the comments by Highpocrisy.
I laughed until my sides ached. Who is this Laura Stuart of MPACUK. I will now look her up as we have much in common. Is it not terrible that there do exist people in the world who refuse to blindly support Israel. For all you Israel lovers: look inside your hearts and tell me that you could dismiss Palestinians rights and grievances. AFter all, is not the current thinking in Israelis circles that the Palestinians are an invented people.
It is truly shocking the amount of Arab ethnic cleansing which is going on in the West Bank areas. Where is the outrage. Oh sorry I forgot they are only Arabs after all.
Could somebody please enlighten me on the subject of world peace. Can you name one area of the world where Israel has contributed to peace, justice, human rights etc.
From the tone and distinct lack of intellectual content in some of the comments, it seems like the Megaphone/GIYUS brigade have been told to come here and spam their usual visceral hatred of anyone who questions the supremacist state of Israel.
Darren Jones proves my point about Mehdi. Anybody who dares to support the Palestinians is likely to be met with a torrent of abuse by the Israeli lobby!!! That is a FACT!!!
@ Maximillian - Well said my friend.
@ Jackass, it doesn't undermine anything, I back up my posts with reasoned facts, you haven't made a reasoned argument, you just project your own bias against anything I say.
Sloppy posts as usual my simple minded stalker.
You really are a nasty piece of work, aren't you Arminius?
A holocaust revisionist such as yourself having supped at the alter of Goebbels and warning the Jews of consequences if there is another war. You sound just like Hitler in his many speeches in which he clearly spelt out the Final Solution when he blamed the Jews for his own murderous aggression.
And thank god for the Soviet Union for its sacrifices in the war against the Hun.
Arminius, your gleeful, look-at-me- I'm-a-know-all invocation of Yiddish words make you sound like Eichmann who also prided himself on being an expert on Jews and Jewish matters.
This white hot hatred coming from you is as a result of living with the consequences of Nazi Germany failing to win the war. Your frustration is so palpable that if it had been anyone else I would have had concern for your health.
Try some therapy.
Arminius do you accept that your prophet Mohammed pbNOTuh was a pedophile, rapist,robber and murderer?
@agoodword and Mehdi.
Well, it is true that Israel has the upper hand, but still a two-state solution is a more realistic alternative to a bi-national, secular, democratic state.
How can such a new structure be secular and democratic amidst the intolerant, dogmatic religious and polical cultures of some oe the more extreme/radical Jews and Muslems?It is simply impossible.
There are not contemporary succesful cases of multi-or-bi-national states based on religious/ethnic diversity, unless we consider some western nations. In the Middle-East? Wishful thinking.
Two states with geographical adjustments, and agreed treaties on
all other outstanding issues is the only solution. Not perfect, but better than the status quo or unrealistic expectations carried on until the end of time, or arguments on who was there first, etc.
Palestine and Israel side by side. That is the only viable solution to this conflict.
Tony Blair once said that he wanted to turn Gaza into the Honh Kong of the Arab world. How could he be so naive to think that the Israelis would ever allow that to happen!! Subjugation ia all the Israelis know.
KaiserFranzJoseph - Why don't yourself a favour by sticking your head in a bucket and kicking it?
Halt deine grosse juedische Schnause du Scheissket! Enough of a WW2 wartime feel for you?
No a soup one. The Arab countries back in 2002 offered normalisation of relations and accepted a two state solution based on the 67 borders east jeruselum etc etc. what's Israelis response, more land theft settlements, the list is too long.
Bringing ken into all this just shows your ignorance of the real problems. You keep adding irrelevt noise and footnotes to a classic colonial script
I am not talking about the Saudi's offer.
I am talking about racism in the threads at the New Statesman.
They are not the same.
Tonge's defenders here seem to have no problem with Ken O'Keefe's offensive and absurd views.
Do you agree with them?
This can't be the same MPAC stormtrooper who called Jews 'Zhids' and the Holocaust 'incomplete'? I wonder if armi ius is related to Haj Amin el Husseini - the Palestinian mufti of Jerusalem granted safe haven by Hitler in Nazi Germany? I suspect it's his grandson.
@ Baz, LOL, please dont tell me its Zionist conspiracy the guardian have been corrupted...what shit, they hate Israel, no money in the world can change there Anti jew and Anti Israel stance...
.....arminius's German is remarkably good for an Islamist loon.
I don't see why we should listen to Hasan anyway.
He talks about "dodgy" remarks. How dodgy were his remarks ?
People on this site frequently criticise Hasan ( correctly ) for saying that those of us who don't follow his religion "live like animals".
But what about the other video in which he condemns "a dog-lover,a homosexual, a paedophile".
Please tell me where these comments belong in a left-wing magazine.
“The State of Israel will not last forever in its present form.” For this, the Lib Dem Whip is withdrawn. For a statement of the obvious - http://davidaslindsay.blogspot.com/2012/02/hold-your-tonge.html
"Jankass at least shows flashes of wit even though he is obsessed with mentioning his hairy arse."
lol. i guess thanks for you doing so this time..?
.......but then again islamism, Nazism - not a
Lot to distinguish between
Mehdi Hasan is a contributing writer for the New Statesman and the co-author of Ed: The Milibands and the Making of a Labour Leader. He was the New Statesman's senior editor (politics) from 2009-12.