Mehdi Hasan

Mehdi Hasan’s polemical take on politics, economics and foreign affairs

Did the invasion of Iraq heighten the threat from al-Qaeda-inspired terrorism?

Me v John Rentoul on a question to which the answer is YES.

By Mehdi Hasan Published 16 September 2011 10:03

John Rentoul is the biographer of a Labour leader. So am I. But I struggle to think what else we have in common.

Oh, wait! We both like to argue about Iraq, despite others having "moved on". Rentoul, like the subject of his biography, Tony Blair, was an ardent supporter of the invasion of Iraq; I, like the subject of the biography that I co-authored, Ed Miliband, happen to be an opponent of the war.

Yesterday, Rentoul and I found ourselves locked in a Twitter spat over whether or not the invasion exacerbated the threat from al-Qaeda-inspired terrorism -- not just to Iraqis but to the residents of the west and, specifically, the United Kingdom. At one stage, Rentoul remarked:

You won't get this bit, b/c you disagree with it so strongly: Iraq was right *even if* there were a risk of "radicalisation"

In fact, I was making the reverse argument: whether or not one supported the war, and there were good and bad reasons for doing so, it is undeniable that Iraq increased the terror threat and acted as a recruiting sergeant for al-Qaeda and its allies across the world. Like his guru Blair, however, Rentoul disputes this point and tried to cite the former MI6 chief Richard Dearlove in his defence. (Yes, the same Richard Dearlove who oversaw the production of dodgy dossiers on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction during his tenure as Britain's top spy chief and who, in July 2002, blithely told Labour ministers that in the US "intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy".)

Rentoul also bizarrely claimed, in a blog post last night, that I had "lost" the argument with him, because I "used a Banned List phrase first: 'Blood and treasure'."

Ah, yes, the "Banned List". I must have been out of the country the day we all decided to put the chief political commentator of a Sunday newspaper in charge of the English language.

Putting his linguistic fascism to one side, I thought I'd actually address the substance of Rentoul's claims -- that Iraq did not radicalise young Muslims at home or abroad, that the evidence for such radicalisation is "thin" and that the threat from terrorism wasn't increased by the our invasion -- in greater depth, and with more detailed evidence, than is practically possible in 140 characters on Twitter.

So, let's see what the experts have to say about the link between Iraq and terrorism.

Here's the verdict of the UK's Joint Intelligence Committee, in a memo sent to Tony Blair in February 2003, a month before the invasion:

The JIC assessed that al-Qaeda and associated groups continued to represent by far the greatest terrorist threat to western interests, and that threat would be heightened by military action against Iraq.

Here's the verdict of a postwar study conducted by the Defence Academy for the Ministry of Defence:

The war in Iraq . . . has acted as a recruiting sergeant for extremists across the Muslim world . . . Iraq has served to radicalise an already disillusioned youth and al-Qaeda has given them the will, intent, purpose and ideology to act.

Here's the verdict of ex-MI5 boss, Eliza Manningham-Buller:

[W]hatever the merits of putting an end to Saddam Hussein, the war was also a distraction from the pursuit of al-Qaeda. It increased the terrorist threat by convincing more people that Osama Bin Laden's claim that Islam was under attack was correct. It provided an arena for the jihad for which he had called, so that many of his supporters, including British citizens, travelled to Iraq to attack western forces . . . And our involvement in Iraq spurred some young British Muslims to turn to terror.

Here's the verdict of another former MI5 chief, Stella Rimmington:

Look at what those people who've been arrested or have left suicide videos say about their motivation. And most of them, as far as I'm aware, say that the war in Iraq played a significant part in persuading them that this is the right course of action to take. So I think you can't write the war in Iraq out of history. If what we're looking at is groups of disaffected young men born in this country who turn to terrorism, then I think to ignore the effect of the war in Iraq is misleading.

Here is the verdict of the 2006 National Intelligence Estimate, ie the consensus view of 16 US intelligence agencies:

We assess that the Iraq jihad is shaping a new generation of terrorist leaders and operatives . . . The Iraq conflict has become the "cause celebre" for jihadists, breeding a deep resentment of US involvement in the Muslim world and cultivating supporters for the global jihadist movement.

Here's the verdict of the then director of the CIA, Porter Goss:

The Iraq conflict, while not a cause of extremism, has become a cause for extremists. Those jihadists who survive will leave Iraq experienced in and focused on acts of urban terrorism. They represent a potential pool of contacts to build transnational terrorist cells, groups and networks in Saudi Arabia, Jordan and other countries.

Here's the verdict of National Intelligence Council, the CIA director's in-house think tank:

Iraq provides terrorists with "a training ground, a recruitment ground, the opportunity for enhancing technical skills," said David B Low, the national intelligence officer for transnational threats. "There is even, under the best scenario, over time, the likelihood that some of the jihadists who are not killed there will, in a sense, go home, wherever home is, and will therefore disperse to various other countries."

"At the moment," NIC Chairman Robert L Hutchings said, Iraq "is a magnet for international terrorist activity."

According to the NIC report, Iraq has joined the list of conflicts . . . that have deepened solidarity among Muslims and helped spread radical Islamic ideology.

Here's the verdict of the former chief of the CIA's Bin Laden unit, Michael Scheuer, in an interview with me for our 9/11 special issue of the New Statesman earlier this month:

Iraq moved Osama and al-Qaeda from man and group to philosophy and movement. I don't think we've begun to see the disaster Iraq is going to cause in the years to come.

Here is the verdict of a report by the pro-war US think tank, the Brookings Institution:

The invasion of Iraq breathed new life into [al-Qaeda]. On an operational level, the United States diverted troops to Iraq rather than consolidate its victory in Afghanistan and increase its chances of hunting down Bin Laden. Today, al-Qaeda is reconstituting itself in the tribal areas of Pakistan. Politically, Iraq vindicated Bin Laden's argument that the primary enemy of the Muslim world was not the local Muslim autocrats, but the "faraway enemy," the United States.

Here is the verdict of Australia's Office of National Assessments:

A key judgement is that Iraq has been clearly used as a recruiting tool for terrorist groups around the globe with the number of jihadis steadily increasing.

Here is the verdict of the hawkish London think tank, the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS):

Invading Iraq damaged the war on terror, there is no doubt about that. It has strengthened rather than weakened al-Qaeda.

Here is the verdict of another respected London foreign-affairs think tank, Chatham House, reporting just 11 days after the 7/7 attacks:

There is no doubt that the situation over Iraq has imposed particular difficulties for the UK, and for the wider coalition against terrorism. It gave a boost to the al-Qaeda network's propaganda, recruitment and fundraising, caused a major split in the coalition, provided an ideal targeting and training area for al-Qaeda-linked terrorists and deflected resources and assistance that could have been deployed . . . to bring Bin Laden to justice.

Here's the verdict of the terrorism and al-Qaeda expert Rohan Gunaratna:

After al-Qaeda lost its Afghanistan base, it desperately needed another land of jihad in which to train and fight. Iraq has provided such a place . . . [T]he US invasion of Iraq increased the worldwide threat of terrorism many times over. Even moderate Muslims are angry about the invasion and post-invasion developments. This animosity toward the United States makes it easier for terrorist and extremist groups to continue to generate recruits and support from the suffering and grieving Muslims of Iraq.

Here's the verdict of a study conducted by al-Qaeda expert Peter Bergen, one of the few "terrorologists" to have met with Osama Bin Laden, and his colleague Paul Cruickshank:

Our study shows that the Iraq war has generated a stunning sevenfold increase in the yearly rate of fatal jihadist attacks, amounting to literally hundreds of additional terrorist attacks and thousands of civilian lives lost; even when terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan is excluded, fatal attacks in the rest of the world have increased by more than one third.

We are not making the argument that without the Iraq war, jihadist terrorism would not exist, but our study shows that the Iraq conflict has greatly increased the spread of the al-Qaeda ideological virus, as shown by a rising number of terrorist attacks in the past three years from London to Kabul, and from Madrid to the Red Sea.

Here is the verdict of Professor Robert Pape, the Chicago University political scientist who has studied every known case of suicide terrorism since 1980:

[I]n a broader sense, America has become perilously unsafe. Each month, there are more suicide terrorists trying to kill Americans and their allies in Afghanistan, Iraq, and other Muslim countries than in all the years before 2001 combined. From 1980 to 2003, there were 343 suicide attacks around the world, and at most 10 per cent were anti-American inspired. Since 2004, there have been more than 2,000, over 91 per cent against U.S. and allied forces in Afghanistan, Iraq, and other countries.

Here is the verdict of Marc Sageman, an expert on al-Qaeda and former CIA case officer, who has analysed the biographies of more than 500 terrorists:

This is especially true since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, which has inspired local young Muslims to strike out against the west. It seems clear that this invasion has created more terrorists in the west, refuting the thesis that "we are fighting them there, so we don't have to fight them here". The fact that these plots peaked in 2004, one year after the invasion of Iraq, provides empirical support linking the two events.

I mentioned Sageman and Pape to Rentoul on Twitter last night. As is so often the case with the hawks, when damning quotes, facts and empirical evidence are put to them, they dodge, evade and/or ignore. His response to me was:

I'm arguing with you, not Pape or Sageman.

Yet, only a few hours earlier, he had asked me:

What about engaging with Dearlove's argument?

So he is allowed to quote a discredited ex-MI6 chief, who is now employed by a firm with links to the Gaddafi family, and expect me to "engage", but I'm not supposed to quote Eliza Manningham-Buller, Stella Rimmington, the JIC, the NIC, the CIA, the IISS, Chatham House, Robert Pape, Marc Sageman or a study by Peter Bergen showing a "seven-fold increase" in al-Qaeda-inspired terrorist attacks in the wake of the Iraq war and then expect a response. Hmm.

To conclude, a reminder of the original question: did Iraq heighten the threat from terrorism and bolster al-Qaeda? I'm sorry to have to inform John Rentoul that this isn't one of those questions to which the answer is no.

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Tags: Osama Bin Laden terrorism media Iraq

More from Mehdi Hasan

View the discussion thread.

71 comments

Mon, 2011-09-19 23:45 — Julia Harris (not verified)

Alexis, will the Islamaphobia never end?

2011.09.19 (Karachi, Pakistan) - A teacher and her child are among eight who lose their lives to a Tehreek-e-Taliban suicide bombing outside a house.
2011.09.19 (Peshawar, Pakistan) - Five people are killed when fundamentalists set off a bomb at a market selling DVDs and music.
2011.09.17 (Akka Khel, Pakistan) - Four members of a peace committee are among five killed at point-blank range by Jihadi gunmen.
2011.09.17 (Faryab, Afghanistan) - Five children are among nine civilians ripped to pieces by a Taliban bomb.
2011.09.16 (Maiduguri, Nigeria) - Boko Haram radicals kill one of their own for holding peace talks.
2011.09.16 (Yala, Thailand) - Islamists gun down two persons at a mosque.

Mon, 2011-09-19 00:31 — Arwa (not verified)

Well done mehdi! Sterling work as usual.

As for the likes of Luddite and Julia Harris, I sincerely hope that the second half of this lecture educates you about the history and the essence of Islam. It is clear you must differentiate between the actual faith and twisted people who use the religion as a name to do a spectra of horrific crimes.

http://www.sayedammar.com/RAMA%202006%20POP%20OUT/ramadhan2006popg.html

Tue, 2011-09-20 00:20 — grumbe (not verified)

julia harris tells it as it is,some people just cant handle the truth woooooooo heeeeeeeeeeeee !!!!!

Thu, 2011-09-29 00:06 — Sally (not verified)

Does the dehumanisation of non Muslims into 'kaffars' as common Islamic discourse exemplified by Mehdi Hasan's speech comparing non Muslims to animals add to the atmospherics in which murderous terroists murder non Muslims? The answer to that is a resounding YES

Thu, 2011-09-22 17:17 — Ian5

Actually I did support the overthrow of the Iraq regime , not for all the reasons professed by Bush /blair et al.

What concerns me is that the whole world was not queuing up to get rid of the murdering clique at the top. One word : Halabja , need a couple more ; Marsh Arabs.

The first invasion should have pushed on and done for the whole lot. That's where the crime lies. Or do those opposed to the Iraq war, find the mass gassing of women and children acceptable?

Too many diplomats, not enough concerted action. The UN is a complete waste of time.

Wed, 2011-09-21 14:45 — Mr. S

Richard - I don't see the connection with her being a psychologist and her comments on a political blog. People on this site tend to avoid debating the real issue, they all just seem to resort to ad hominem attacks on one another and the columnist. Childish.

Mon, 2011-09-19 06:33 — Alexis (not verified)

Julia Harris it's good to know that you at least realise that you are indeed a troll.

Tue, 2011-09-20 07:22 — Richard Albright1

Alexis. "Islamaphobia" Alexis A phobia is a type of anxiety disorder, usually defined as a persistent fear of an object or situation in which the sufferer commits to great lengths to avoid. "Islamaphobia" is probably the most dishonest word invented by the extreme-left, there's nothing irrational about opposing 'violent' Islam. What is irrational is defending hatred and intolerance of others.

Sat, 2011-09-17 09:44 — Luddite (not verified)

Ever since 9/11, Muslim leaders who have access to our the national media have told us that Islam is essentially a religion of 'peace' and that violence does not represent the essence of Muhammad’s religion. Even Bush and Ex-Prime Minister Blair have repeated this lie, saying that Islam has been "hijacked" by a few violent fanatics. Is this true? Sadly it is not, for empirical, observable facts demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that Islam at its founding is filled with violence—in the life of Muhammad himself and in the Quran itself.
Hence, these Muslim apologists such as Mehdi Hasan must stop misleading unsuspecting Westerners, and they must be honest about the heart of their religion, for once and for all.
Quite simply it's possible the hide the truth. Islam is incompatible with Western liberalism.

Sun, 2011-09-25 15:17 — stevem1

Nobody could take Rentoul seriously. He has fawned over Blair,who is certainly a war criminal, for years. THose who opposed the Irag adventure said the risk of terrorism would increase ,we were right,as we were right about everything else. It is time those who supported the war and still do accepted that they are partially responsible for deaths in Madrid,London and several other places since 2003. MOreover they should hang their heads in shame about the deaths of over a million Iraqis many of whom were women and children. I will not dwell on the injured and the terribly maimed,or for land contaminated by depleted uraniam and other toxic substances.

Mon, 2011-09-19 10:38 — Julia Harris (not verified)

Oh Alexis, your devastating whit is hard to deal with...

Troll to you = anyone who speaks up against Islam and the Supremacists?

Islam is the religion of peace and we'll kill you too prove it...

Sat, 2011-09-17 12:16 — scampy

Is there any muslim country that muslims can hold up as an example of islam and sharia law that all it's citizens are living happily ever after? Without western welfare benefits.
Many muslims in the hell holes of Yemen, Somalia, Pakistan etc must be wondering why allah does not pay welfare benefits as in infidel countries.

Sat, 2011-09-17 13:29 — Julia Harris (not verified)

Will the Islamaphobia never End? Its amazing how Iraq is having an influence in Thailand and Dagestan too...

2011.09.16 (Yala, Thailand) - Islamists gun down two persons at a mosque.
2011.09.16 (Narathiwat, Thailand) - Four people, including a tourist, are killed in a 40-minute bombing spree by Islamic militants.
2011.09.15 (Kadar, Dagestan) - Muslim radicals enter an imam's home and shoot him 57 times.

Sat, 2011-09-17 13:35 — Julia Harris (not verified)

Since 1948, almost 10 million Muslims have died at the hands of fellow Muslims...

Where is the outrage over that? Dont tell us Mehdi they are not accountable or responsible for there own actions?Its is us who have to shoulder the blame as we have driven them to murder each other...they just had no choice?????

And as the late Samuel P. Huntington observed: "Wherever one looks along the perimeter of Islam, Muslims have problems living peaceably with their neighbors. The question naturally rises as to whether this pattern of the late 20th century conflict between Muslim and non-Muslim groups is equally true of relations between groups from other civilizations. In fact, it is not. Muslims make up 1/5 of the world's population but in the 1990s they have been far more involved in intergroup violence than the people of any other civilization....Islam's borders are bloody, and so are its innards.

Wed, 2011-09-21 18:29 — Alexis (not verified)

Richard - luckily the BPS are not influenced by bigots such as yourself.

Mr S - thanks

Wed, 2011-09-21 19:05 — Julia Harris (not verified)

Richard A - Its usually people bleating on about some fictitious qualification or profession as they need to bolster themselves up.

Alexis probably flunked out of year one psychology for beginners (evening class) at Merthyr tydfil college - and she now a proud Psychologist....

Wed, 2011-09-21 19:10 — Alexis (not verified)

Julia if that thought makes you feel better..

Mon, 2011-09-19 12:53 — Julia Harris (not verified)

More Islamaphobia...

Seven held in Birmingham anti-terror operation

Specialist police teams are now searching properties in the city
Six men and a woman have been arrested in Birmingham in a large anti-terrorism operation, West Midlands Police say.

The men, aged between 25 and 32, are being held on suspicion of the commission, preparation or instigation of an act of terrorism in the UK.

The woman, 22, is held on suspicion of failing to disclose information contrary to the Terrorism Act 2000.

The arrests are thought to be the most significant this year, BBC home affairs correspondent Danny Shaw said.

It is understood the investigation, which has involved security service MI5, relates to suspected Islamist extremism.

Tue, 2011-09-20 15:30 — Julia Harris (not verified)

The very concept of "Islamophobia" was invented by Islamic supremacists in order to claim victim status for Muslims and deflect attention away from the global jihad and Islamic supremacism. If self-proclaimed moderate Muslims really wants to cure "Islamophobia," here is an easy way. They can:

1. Focus their indignation on Muslims committing violent acts in the name of Islam, not on non-Muslims reporting on those acts.
2. Renounce definitively, sincerely, honestly, and in deeds, not just in comforting words, not just "terrorism," but any intention to replace the U.S. Constitution (or the constitutions of any non-Muslim state) with Sharia even by peaceful means. In line with this, clarify what is meant by their condemnations of the killing of innocent people by stating unequivocally that American and Israeli civilians are innocent people, teaching accordingly in mosques and Islamic schools, and behaving in accord with these new teachings.
3. Teach, again sincerely and honestly, in transparent and verifiable ways in mosques and Islamic schools, the imperative of Muslims coexisting peacefully as equals with non-Muslims on an indefinite basis, and act accordingly.
4. Begin comprehensive international programs in mosques all over the world to teach sincerely against the ideas of violent jihad and Islamic supremacism.
5. Actively and honestly work with Western law enforcement officials to identify and apprehend jihadists within Western Muslim communities.

Wed, 2011-09-21 20:19 — Luddite (not verified)

"BIGOT" person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion. Alexis sounds a bit like yourself!! but getting back to the question.
"Did the invasion of Iraq heighten the threat from al-Qaeda-inspired terrorism"? 'al-Qaeda' and it's off-spring were attacking the West long before the invasion of Iraq. Murdering tourist in Egypt, bombing trains in Spain, East African bombings. The atrocities are endless. Is the middle-east a better place without the murdering psychopath Saddam Hussein? probably but only time will tell..

Fri, 2011-09-16 10:42 — RepStones (not verified)

Ouch - good work Mehdi. It is (as you've demonstrated) patently ridiculous to claim the invasion of Iraq didn't favour AQ.

Just one point, you cite Pape, who is well versed in suicide terrorism, but I believe his thesis about occupation to be the main/sole driver of suicide terrorism, is flawed.

Fri, 2011-09-16 10:51 — Marcus (not verified)

You agree with Ron Paul, probably for the first time in your life.

Wed, 2011-09-21 21:25 — Julia Harris (not verified)

Sorry for going of topic...but

Alexis, it doesn't make me feel anything but pity for you, you really must try harder.

The fact that you cant retort in a convincing way, and that you take comments personally shows you lack the maturity and intellect to debate with Adults.

It also proves my point about you not being the psychologist you claim to be, as you if you were then I would expect you to be a whole lot more insightful into what I and others are saying and not come back with banal comments like 'if the thought makes me feel better' - what a naive statement too make.

Thu, 2011-09-29 14:36 — Steve E. (not verified)

Remind me again, Mehdi, when Saddiq Kahn was radicalised?

Fri, 2011-09-16 12:49 — DEMB (not verified)

Forgive me but last week didn't you post an article arguing that the threat of Islamic terrorism has been massively exaggerated over the decade since 9/11?

This is more opportunistic spin.

You will never gain credibility as a journalist or public intellectual or any thing else for that matter until you conclude that the objective truth is more important than your political agenda.

DEMB

Tue, 2011-09-20 17:31 — Daniel (not verified)

Julia Harris

How about stretching your research to cover Christian against Christian violence. We Christians have a long proud history of killing each other (when we are not killing people that are not like us like Jews, Arabs, Indians, Africans etc.).

Inter-faith murder and violence is not an exclusively Muslim phenomenon.

Wed, 2011-09-21 22:16 — Alexis (not verified)

Julia - I don't have anything to prove, especially not some sad directless loser like yourself.
Now I think that I have humoured you enough, I am sure that the edl can find you something more productive to do.

Tue, 2011-09-20 17:48 — grumbe (not verified)

@daniel.give me few examples of christian based honour killings..vicars and nuns blowing themselfes up in markets,forced marriage,etc.etc..julia harris tells the truth,,,go girl go girl,,woooooo heeeeeeeee!!!!!

Tue, 2011-09-20 18:26 — Alexis (not verified)

Richard albright - I am a Psychologist, thus I do not need a lecture from you on phobias, which by the way is not accurate (see DSM for details.

Grumbe - ffs..

Mon, 2011-09-26 00:25 — SiDevilIam

My dear Mehdi,

I am Sid.

I just found New Statesman. Ergo you. I quickly subscribed. Subscription is the process.

We shall cross swords, Inshallah. Maybe agree and work together, Subhanallah.

Let me get my sea legs on the ground. UK is an ocean away for me.

I agree with you. That is an understatement of the 21st century.

Keep up your good work. In America, they say, "Keep on trucking." Does it translate, in Queen's English, as "Keep on lorrying?"

Just kidding. Lost touch with Queen's English a long time back. For me, through is thru, jaol is jail and English is American.

Washington is, "inside beltway." Chicago is, "in the Loop." Barack Obama is, unfortunately, "Barack Obama."

Somethings can't be changed. C'est la vie. Comme si comme ca. "chalta hain."

...and I am Sid Harth@cogitoergosumdesign.com

Fri, 2011-09-16 13:25 — Luddite (not verified)

The Libyan people are free of Gaddafi and his family thanks to NATO's bombs. At least thinking you are in a democracy is still better than KNOWING first hand the BRUTALITY of living under a cruel despotic military dictatorship.

Sat, 2011-09-17 22:56 — sven king (not verified)

Mehdi Hassan conspicuous by his silence

Sat, 2011-09-17 23:26 — Stan Rosenthal1

Iraq is just another excuse for terrorism, not its cause.

Fri, 2011-09-16 13:46 — Julian2

I don't think it actually matters very much whether the AQ threat was heightened by the invasion of Iraq or not although it seems common-sense to assume it did.

It seems that AQ have been taken on and defeated anyway through a variety of means - military in Iraq and the Swat valley, police and intelligence in the US and Europe, politically, ideologically, and morally everywhere.

AQ and violent Islamicism strike me as febrile in the extreme. The defiance of the 7/7 bombers video was adolescent posturing. The antics of MAC (non-violent tho they are) look to me to be the quintessence of the juvenile. The understanding of the world on display in OBL's and Zawahiri's statements is laughably basic.

As ever, those on the left or right who say 'we only made things worse' ignore the facts. Which overwhelmingly point to the physical defeat of the violent, and the retreat of non-violent, Islamists.

As TB said, Islamism exists on a spectrum.

Fri, 2011-09-16 16:30 — MatthewBlott

@ Mehdi Hasan

I stopped taking John Rentaul seriously when he wrote a piece defending the war on drugs - an even more disastrous war with a far higher body count.

I'm glad you acknowledge there were good reasons for supporting the Iraw War rather than sactimoniously insist it was obviously wrong. I was agonostic on the invasion at the time but concede it has been a total disaster and a bad call. Unfortunately John Rentaul and others are denial and there isn't much you can do about those that indulge in self delusion.

One other thing you mention which is true - you certainly like to argue about the Iraq War and really do need to move on.

Fri, 2011-09-16 14:34 — Peter (not verified)

"Banned list" phrase, indeed. Isn't it funny how the pro-war contingent have to reduce parameters of the argument to even put forward a case. Very Orwellian, very newspeak.

Sun, 2011-09-18 02:17 — stuart (not verified)

something i am amazed about, and nobody is talking about, and i think should be very worried about in the future is, will are intervention in libya and the carpet bombing of pro gaddfi forces increase are chances of becoming a victim of a terrorist attack in the uk by libyan pro gaddafi forces who have not only lost there power base in libya and but also may have lost members of there family due to the relentless bombing of there towns and citys..i think the we are taking are eyes of the ball here if we think that the toppled pro gaddafi forces in libya may in the future want to seek revenge on the countrys namely france,america and the uk who took part in the destroying of the gaddafi regime...

Thu, 2011-09-22 02:08 — Julia Harris (not verified)

Alexis, you do have lot to prove, unfortunately you've proved nothing accept that your a fool.

More Islamaphobic attacks by greasy Islamaphobes no doubt.....erm... actually.... they were carried out by Islamic Jihadists ...

Alexis will now get angry with me as I am shocked and appalled at these events and she will focus her anger at me, instead of at those who did the killing...make sense??? great stuff...

2011.09.20 (Kabul, Afghanistan) - The head of a peace council is killed by a Shahid who hid the bomb in his turban.
2011.09.20 (Quetta, Pakistan) - Three mourners, traveling to pick up bodies from an earlier Sunni ambush, are gunned down in route.
2011.09.20 (Mastung, Pakistan) - Twenty-six Shia pilgrims are pulled off a bus, lined up and executed by Lashkar-e-Jhangvi Sunnis..
2011.09.20 (Ramadi, Iraq) - Three Fedayeen suicide bombers murder four Iraqis at a government complex.
2011.09.19 (Aqcha, Afghanistan) - A brutal suicide attack leaves four dead, including a woman and her child.

Tue, 2011-09-20 19:23 — C Baker

Who cares? I'm more concerned with the floods in Parkistan. Human needs as opposed to crappy religion and American war mongering.

Fri, 2011-09-16 15:03 — DEMB (not verified)

I Just noticed that you removed your earlier piece on the exaggeration of the threat of Islamic terrorism.

Was that so that you could right this completely contradictory article?

This apparent lack of integrity is shocking...

Thu, 2011-09-22 04:03 — dillon (not verified)

the leftys hate the truth julia harris.

Tue, 2011-09-27 15:23 — Julia Harris (not verified)

This weeks Islamaphobia

2011.09.26 (Kabul, Afghanistan) - An American security analyst is gunned down by a Fedayeen working as a trusted employee.
2011.09.25 (Karbala, Iraq) - al-Qaeda devotees target Shiites with four bomb blasts that leave nearly twenty dead.
2011.09.25 (Solo, Indonesia) - A teenage girl is among two worshippers cut to pieces by a Shahid who wanders into a church service and detonates a bomb packed with nails and bolts.
2011.09.25 (Talipao, Philippines) - A villager is among three people killed in an Abu Sayyaf ambush.
2011.09.24 (Maywand, Afghanistan) - Two women and three children are among seven civilians disassembled by Mujahid bombers.
2011.09.23 (Husseiniya, Iraq) - Four people are taken apart by a Shahid suicide car bomber.

Sun, 2011-09-18 11:09 — Luddite (not verified)

carpet bombing" who's carpet bombing? Gaddafi's regime financed every terrorist organization from the IRA to the West-side boys. So who's actually mourning Gaddafi's demise apart from the usual suspects.
There again we could all take (Stuart's) advice and capitulate to state sponsored terrorism.

Sat, 2011-09-24 19:37 — Hugh Markey (not verified)

Having discussed the 'whys and wherefores' of Iraq as a recruiting sergeant for Al Qaeda-inspired terrorism, our consensus following debate was that this conflict was almost identical to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
Find us a journalist, politician, commentator, historian, author or member of the public who will not claim that the brutal intrusion of Soviet military forces into Afghanistan inflamed the world of Islam at the time. There were no known geographic boundaries to this recruitment drive.
We are a little surprised that this pretty obvious comparison has not been made previously.

Snap!

Fri, 2011-09-16 17:06 — Hounam

And dictatorships are now falling apart throughout the Middle East, the leadership of Al Qaeda has been decapitated and there have been no serious terrorist attacks on the West for years.But somehow I do not suppose your Mr Hasan will be arguing furiously that these too are the effects of the wars in Iraq (or the effects of American foreign policy generally). Post hoc ergo procter hoc?

Fri, 2011-09-16 17:33 — gerry (not verified)

Julian - good post.

Islamic terrorism - be it from Al Qaeda or Hamas or the Taleban or Iran or Al Shabaab or the home grown 7/7 bombers or a thousand other fundamentalist groups - is the end part of a spectrum.

Even if there had been no Iraq invasion (which was wrong)militant Islam would still have grown and multiplied.

Fundamentalist Islam has in fact been growing everywhere for the last 40 or so years.

Well before Iraq, or 9/11, there were hundreds of deadly jihadi attacks on innocent civilians from Paris to Nairobi to India to Nigeria to Indonesia!

Dont you get it Mehdi? Extremist fundamentalist terror-supporting or jihadi-backing Muslims in the UK, Europe, the USA and in majority Muslim countries didnt need Iraq to hate the West, they already hated it, and still do to this day, for its democracies, liberal freedoms, womens equality, freedom of speech, and secularism!

That is what motivates many Muslims in the UK to join the jihad - it is an ideological religious choice they are making.

Iraq may have made some extremists even more hate-filled but I doubt it persuaded one formerly "moderate" Muslim to strap a suicide belt to his body and gain his access to his 72 virgins!

Rentoul is right in that respect: stop appeasing extremist Islam, Mehdi!

Fri, 2011-09-16 17:39 — vanrisszcu

RepStones - thanks. Why dont you agree with Pape? Too simplistic?

Marcus - I always agree with Paul on foreign affairs. Shame he's such a nutcase when it comes to domestic policy.

Reggie - why "mundane"? Specifics please.

Demb - sorry its not at all inconsistent of me to argue that, overall, the terror threat has been exaggerated, but the threat itself was worsened by Iraq. No inconsistency in that position whatsoever. As for "removing" the article, it's right here:

http://www.newstatesman.com/north-america/2011/09/terrorism-threat-fear-...

You ARE a conspiratorial man, arent you?

Peter - so true.

MatthewBlott - I'd love to "move on" but people are still dying out there, US troops are still fighting out there, and the likes of Rentoul havent yet joined you in conceding "it has been a total disaster and a bad call."

Wed, 2012-02-15 20:41 — Federico

The real problem are the bands of Islamofascists who think nothing of deliberately killing innocent civilians in the name of their religion. Usually those of the same religion! Highlight Iraq as a stupid war if you like and I'll agree, but this subtle 'it's all the west's fault' is a red herring to the real problem. http://www.besthomeimprovementideas.org/

Wed, 2011-09-21 01:07 — Hassan (not verified)

Dear Julia Harris:

I am a Muslim and I can understand why you view Islam and Muslims in the way you do. It is the job of the "real Muslims" to clarify to you that "Islam" and "Muslims" are two different things and the two rarely meet. Allow me to explain.

Shortly after the death of the Prophet Mohammed the religion was taken over by dictator after dictator to the point that the grandson of the Prophet along with his family (i.e. also the descendants and family of the Prophet) were slaughtered by the "Muslim nation". When the tyrant of the time was asked by a Christian whose head it was he was playing with he replied: "The grandson of our Prophet". The Christian replied along the lines of: "By God if we had a descendent of Jesus we would worship the grounds he walked on".

Now the concept and beauty of Islam remains and many implement its true and beautiful characteristics (many of which are shared by Christianity and Judaism). Values of family, respect for the parents/elders, sacrifice for others (regardless of being Muslim or not), making peace between individuals, showing dignity and respect to women and so on.

There are many parallels between Islam and Christianity in the way the religion was hijacked for political and materialistic gain. If you look at the Quran then you will find many of the same beautiful stories and metaphors narrated but yet humans always appear to use the interpretation which they want in order to achieve their aim. For example I could say just as God drowned all those who didn't believe in Noah then I want to do the same thing - this is what these extremists do they play to what suits them.

The extremists and murderers of today have their doctrines and beliefs going back to the same people who slaughtered the family of the very prophet they were supposed to believe in. These people have turned the true religion upside down into something truly satanic. We all need to stand against such evil.

I believe your approach and others who are on another extreme will only help these extremists in achieving their aims. You need to open your mind and hearts up to others so that we can all achieve our goals of ridding the world of what in reality are just a significant bunch of thugs and criminals.

Wed, 2011-09-21 02:04 — Julia Harris (not verified)

Dear Hassan,

It was nice to read your reasoned and polite interpretation of the situation that Muslims and Islam are facing. I didn’t know about the prophet’s son, so that’s new one for me in history.

Do you consider, as you say the ‘concept and beauty of Islam that many implement’ includes Sharia Law?
Can you flesh out for me, what you mean when you say ‘my approach will help these extremists’, how exactly?
Hassan my heart and mind are open to you...I would love for you to be the spokes persons for the Muslim world. You would reject the killing of innocents, Americans, Israeli’s and others in the name of Islam. You would reject the practice of Sharia law and allow gays and minorities to practice their religiously, cultural and sexual practices without the fear of death or threats. You would speak up about Honour killings and say they are a wicked and wrong practice that must stop now. You would say that those who wish to leave Islam must be allowed to without fear of reprisal or death. You would say there must be more open and honest debate about Islam but reformists who wish to transform the religion to a much less hardline version.

My heart and mind are open to all the people of the Muslims world to do these real and meaningful things, to show us that we on this side of the argument are wrong about Islam. That they should say to people like me and others in the west that we should be applauded and congratulated for raising these issues, debating these issues surrounding Islam - as we know there is not the freedom in the Muslims world to explore the thugary that exists. There is not the freedom in the Muslims world to be self critical of Islam and its tenants and my heart and mind are open for the day when they say – we cant go on living like this, and that the path to true freedom and joy doesn’t come from a book. Its comes from inside yourself, by understanding yourself and learning from everyday life, by being a good person, I don’t need a book to tell me how to be those things and I don’t need a book written by others to control my life and thoughts.