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Melanie Phillips's latest outburst against Islam and Muslims is opportunistic and goes beyond the pale.
Tags: Race Islam media
It's a good job that comment threads have barely any impact (none at all) on the mainstream debate, because the lack of knowledge and cultural prejudice on display here is pretty terrifying.
Its not ASIAN GANGS - ITS MUSLIM GANGS
I feel sorry for Hindus and Sikhs getting mixed with the Islamists.
@ Des Demona. I read the Samira Shackle article you provided a link to. I think your mistaking the "caste" system with "clan" System. Two very very different things which really illustrates that your grasp of the english language is pretty dismal and your understanding of all things islamic is even worse.
Des, thanks, but its Castorp - everyone gets it wrong!
Anyway, @Fai your comment is very stupid.
Suffice to say that I can't remember the last time a Quaker exploded on a crowded bus, circumcised a woman, slated a Jew, married a child, hacked off a limb, or prescribed what a woman could wear either in the name of - or because of (take your pick) - his religion, and was supported by his community for so doing.
"The point of this article was to point out that a person’s race, or religion, or culture should not be associated with the crimes they commit. It should NOT be used as a reason for it."
That's *exactly* why it's a Mehdi's article is disingenuous and somewhat fatuous.
It's also a maxim that I bet you don't trouble yourself to apply when talking about Israel.
"Yes the victims of these animals were predmoniantly white- BUT what the media and people who only see thing as "brown or white" keep on missing out is the fact they also targeted Bangladeshi girls who are MUSLIMs"
Give me links. Evidence. Proof. You are providing nothing but baseless statements. I want news stories that prove you correct.
"so stop your racists non-sense. anyone with brain larger then a pee will realise its nothing to do with race, creed or culture."
MY racist nonsense? LOL! It's these Muslim rapists who bring race into it, when assaulting their white victims, they refer to them as 'white kuffar bitch', 'white slut' etc etc. In fact, I have not ONCE brought race into it. I did however say these MUSLIM men are praying on NON-Muslim girls, because Islam teaches that non-Muslim females are worthless.
"PS there has been many cases of white men abusing non-whites inlcuding pakistani women- the only difference is its never reported...i wonder why?"
If the media never reported on them, how do you know about them? LOL! Lying little turd.
""Some White" People love jumping on the band-wagon of bashing "others" and in this decade its seems to be the turn of Muslims and now Pakistanis in paticular."
LOL! The reason why it's white people who talk about the disgusting behaviour of Muslims is because we're in BRITAIN - you know, Britain, an historically white country? I just LOVE the double-standards of Muslims. Apply the same scenario, but change the roles (white Christian men grooming & raping Pakistani Muslim girls IN Pakistan) and how do you think the Muslim population in Pakistan would react? EH? I can assure you there'd be no political correctness holding back the Pakistani media from reporting on it. ALL white people in Pakistan would be targets. Their lives would be at great risk. You KNOW this. ALL Muslims know this, but they're too busy pointing the finger at us white British infidels, not realising what the opposite scenario would be.
Carry on talking your nonsense. I very much enjoy shoving it back down your throat. Hehe. :-D
I think you are getting a little muddled - If, as you argue -the results are skewed because the sample is from an area with a high Pakistani population - then why are all the victims non Pakistani?
Do you actually see what that means? You are kinda arguing against yourself.
As expected, Kasser completely ignores my responses to him. How typical of his ilk.
@ Hans Castrop-
How comes no journalists has been “alarmed” or ever pin pointed that paedophilia is an issue, predominantly, in the “white” community and labelled it as such? Why has it not been highlighted even today that internet child abuse is predominantly committed by white men? Why are so called "objective" journalists and politicians not in arms about sex crimes in the white community and investigate and “define a specific, criminal, sociological issue in that community”? Why is that things have to always be rolled up to be cultural issue when it is from ethnic community and not when it from our “own” community?
Crimes are crimes regardless of colour, creed or culture!
What is intended to be achieved from picking on particular community? Is it to promote hatred against them, prop up ideas of them against us, “we are being taken over”, and we are in a constant state of fear, on the verge of wetting our pants. Hate is being blatantly promoted, just like it was previously prompted against Jews, blacks, Chinese, Bangladeshis and now Pakistanis. It seems to be an unfortunate habit the "the white west" have mastered over centuries of colonialism.
Cultural? No! Islamic doctrine? YES!! Let us compare REAL MUSLIMS with REAL CHRISTIANS.
Christians, if they are REAL Christians, follow the teachings of Christ. Muslims, if they are REAL Muslims, follow the Qu'ran, and the commands of Allah's messenger, Mohammed.
Jesus preached love and peace. REAL Christians try to emulate Christ. Mohammed, "prophet" of Islam, subjugated, raped, tortured, looted, burned, massacred, enslaved, invaded and beheaded.. Mohammed was a murderer and also a paedophile AND necrophiliac. It is all in the Qu'ran and hadith. MOST Muslims know this, but they hide it from the unbelievers until it is too late (lying to spread Islam is allowable and is called al taquiyya). That is how they conquer entire civilisations.. they lie..
By the way, a mosque is a vanguard.. a sign of victory in conquered lands, and they are conquering The West piece by piece.. and, in the light of the Jihadist Martyrs which The West incorrectly calls "Suicide bombers". VIOLENT jihad is a DUTY for Muslims, not an abherration of Islamic teaching. Oh, and to "Heather", Aisha played with dolls AFTER she was bedded by Mohammed. Islam only allowed the ownership of dolls to a girl who was not yet menstruating! Mohammed "The Perfect Man" married Aisha when she was 6 and had full sex with her when she was 9 years age. Read the hadith!! Oh, and to find out what he did to his young bride between the ages of 6 and 9, check out Mufa' Khathat or the sacred Islamic practice of "thighing" little girls: http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/mufa-khathat-cleaning-mess-up.html The hadith is Bukhari; narrators are Sulaiman bin Yasar, Aisha herself and Amr bin Maimun. Mohammed set the precedent.. and his FAVOURITE slave, by the way, was a fair-skinned Coptic (Egyptian) Christian called Mariah..
Knowlege is the purpose of these threads. People can only learn through discussion and debate and the comments should be read with understanding but without obscure interpretations. It stands to reaason that the people of our country are seeking answers.
Religions, like Catholicism for instance, also have a lot to answer for but there is less aversion to talk about the facts.
I think you will undoubtedly find similar eveidence but it has a problem when it comes to young boys and there is little dispute about that.
It is not a pick on Islam event and should not be turned into one.
To all who say Yasmin A-B is an idiot: I concur.
Compare what Mehdi is doing re Islam in this case, with what Palin has today done re right-wing rhetoric.
Same disingenuous distancing going on - wasn;t us, guv.
Though, of course, Palin, not Mehdi, is the religious extremeist (Mehdi just apologises for them sometimes).
What was your point again?
Mehdi, you said on The Big Questions " surely the debate ahould be about Why are there 13 year old girls on street corners?,Where are the Parents?, Where were Social Services?" Are you saying Blame the Girl`s or Blame the Parents?
@ Nigel Blake
On the contrary dear Nigel. It is not all about me. I am a regular giver to various humanitarian charities and an all round nice guy to friends and strangers.
You evidently need the construct of an organised religion to make your life seem less futile.
I don't think there's much more to say on that debate?
You could only get away with this piece here, Mr. Hasan. Outside the rarified atmosphere of Lefty Blathero-sphere, everyone else knows it's true.
Malak ul-Yameen, or 'right hand possession', is the Islamic basis for this appalling crime - and the reason that it is practised by ONLY Muslim men.
Of course this is not to say that other forms of trafficking are not carried out by men of other Religions - of course they are - but talk to people in Islamised working class towns of Britain (not that NS readers ever do); and you will soon discover this particular crime is a Muslim only phenomenon.
And you know it.
@Syeda - Lot of gibberish, you should really try to shorten your comments as they are too long and totally boring! The past is the past and all abrahamic faiths have histories filled with violence. From the old testament/torah to the new testament to the koran to the hadiths. Filled with violence, hate, rape, slavery and pure nonsense of every possible kind. All are not worth the paper they are printed on. I know as I have read them all (well not the hadiths, as I have other things to do with my life).
Imagine no religion, impossible but nice to think of anyway!
Typically you try and brush off all the criticism to your whitewashing of the problem as Islamophobic. You could have got away with this a few years ago but more and more people are now educating themselves about what Islam actually is and what the Quran and the Hadiths promulgate. Unfortunately the media is still peddling the same old myths about Islam being a peaceful religion.
Nice try. The Hadiths of Bukhari which are classed as Salih or reliable or authentic. So that disposes of that argument. You also state that we should not compare the practices of Mohammed's time to now. As with your point about Aisha you again have no clue about what you are writing about. Mohammed is a man that each Muslim man does his best to emulate, many going as far as to copy his manner of walking or talking. It is only a small step for them to want to emulate his sexual activities.
well put it this way a,,what punishment would you like handed out to these evil child molesting cowards if it was your daughter being abused,,i know what i would like do with them and it might fall into the category of sharia law..confused a...lets make it a bit more simple,, i would punish these paedophiles the same way the taliban punish spies when they catch them..there you go..
Author writes: "Don't they know that young girls are sold into sexual slavery in Pakistan, too, where they all happen to be Muslims, as do the perpetrators of this heinous crime?"
hasan clearly states this type of activity is a common event in muslim pakistan. The only difference is that in England they can enslave the kāfir women. Nice real nice!
Judge I rest my case. Thanks Hasan!!
@Mehdi thanks I enjoyed the article. I never understand why people feel they need to pick hole in all your arguments and blogposts.
I agree with you and feel a sense of cringing embaressment as I read some of the comments.
@James right on, as does this
Since when did Pakistani men become a muslim issue, are all Anglo-Saxon's Christian?
This is not a Muslim issue a true Muslim just like a true Christian would not do such things....
Many of your statements I cannot deny, yes you are correct in some of your “cut and paste” Islamic rulings. I was pointing out to your deluded rant about Muslims being in the majority in 50 years time.
Lets go by approx figures in the last census in 2001. Muslims equated to about 3% of the UK population, at around 1.5m. Lets say the Muslim population grows at a rate of 10% each year, year on year, you are looking at a Muslim population in 50 years time in excess of what the general predictions for normal population growth will be.
The Christian population equalled to 72% at around 42m in 2001.
The net birthrate in the UK is nowhere near 10%. So, All other groups will have to stop populating, and the Muslims will have to give it hell for leather to match your predictions.
Maybe I am deluded. Who knows. But if you can put forward a daft population growth argument then I can put up daft responses.
@ Sean 14.05 – Thank you. No one seems to be getting what you are saying. That is sad.
@ Des Demona – 14.24 – Stop airbrushing out the Bangladeshi victims, or are they not victims cause they were brown skinned and Muslim? So no, it is nota red herring. I wonder how your red herring comment would go down with one of those dark skinned victims.
The fact is these gangs are criminals. They want to make money. They will make money from selling drugs to their grans if they could. They are defunct of a moral soul. Sadly, their victims in this case, the majority of them were white. It could easily have been a different shade of victim.
allah b4 you do you're tongue will be cut out
I have read it. I found it to be violent, racist, women-hating and paedophile. I think it should be made a criminal offence to have it in one's possession rather like possessing heroin. Moslems should edit the objectionable passages out.
Sean, perhaps it might not just be white supremacists ? perhaps it is possible to appreciate that in our world different cultures and religions do have different prejudices, views on equality of human rights etc. - be it women or people of another religion. I can sit here and list many examples not just attributal to the 'white man' - it isn't black and white and just because other cultures have prejudices and ignore human rights (in whatever capacity) it does not somehow negate misogynistic cultural views and practices in other religions including cultures shaped in some way by Islam.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1347335/Asian-sex-gang-Toni-Mari... has this got to do with my religion medhi hassan asks??
Do you know any Muslims in the UK? Seriously. Honestly. Have you ever spoken to any of them? Are they all like the Muslims you describe them to be?
Rants and insults aside, just an honest answer. An answer from experience please.
''How on earth is my religion to blame for Asian gangs and sex abuse?'' you ask?
Well... there are possibly such factors as the way that western values including sexualfreedom is denigrated in a large number of Mosques, painting western women as inferior to Muslim? Possibly also the double edged sword of preaching sexual abstinance before marriage to a muslim girl, leaving the 'easy' western girls as fair game? Possibly the general denigration of western values in general leaving some muslims to feel they can do what they like against western values?
Religion of any description is a cancer and should be cut out of society. Islam is one of the worst.
Still no word from you Mehdi on the bombing of Christian Churches in Nigeria and Egypt?
How about a campaign for religious tolerance in Saudi Arabia and allow a church or synagogue to be built there.
Rather than constantly bleating about the intolerance towards Islam how about thinking just how intolerant Islam is to everything else and doing something about it?
If Mehdi Hasan complains how we are trying to paint Muslims with a broad brush, which we aren't, why is he brushing non-Muslims with a broad stroke? I quote:
"Once we lose the moral high-ground we are no different from the rest,
of the non-Muslims, from the rest of those human beings who live their
lives as animals, bending any rule to fulful any desire."
Watch him say it, here, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4hpfqFt-0Q
Great Article by Melanie Philips who talks facts and speaks the truth.
Unfortunatley the left and Islamists like Medhi cant handle talking about facts and scream racisim, islamaphobia whenever anyone provides a true insight into Islam.
When Medhi starts to apologies for the actions of Muslims gangs and then says -
"While Jewish murderers have been jailed..." or "While Hindu bankrobbers have been jailed..."
The fact of the matter is it is Islam as Philips points out that gives them the view that we are all Infidels and so second class and destined to hell.
"How on earth is my religion to blame for Asian gangs and sex abuse?" you asked. I, and others, have given our answer.
So,come on, Mehdi. We are still waiting for you to address the fact that the depraved behaviour of these Pakistani rape-gangs is mirrored by the depraved behaviour of Mohammad and his followers as described in the Koran and Hadith. Do I really have to quote the Surrahs and Hadith for you?
In their favour, though - at least the gang from Derby didn't murder all the girls' male relatives before raping them, unlike the gang from Mecca.
Who's airbrushing? I was addressing the point that Sean raised re skin colour. The fact that a small number of Bangledeshi girs have been attacked ( though I can't find a report of this in this case) is horrible but a red herring.Please address the point of my post which was that there were no pakistani victims? It is well known that the de facto caste system in Islam heirarchy looks down on those of Bangledeshi origin. So it all part of the same problem. An islamofacism that denigrates the rights and humanity of others, reducing them to 'cattle' as even Mehdi calls us Kaffirs.
That gang - and others very much like them if you took the trouble to look - were brought up in a religion that believes everyone else is a second class citizen - including some within their own religion seeing as how they are continually blowing each other up as well.
Great post from Allah.
The Guide to Understanding Islam
Question: Why are rape victims punished by Islamic courts as adulterers?
Summary Answer: Under Islamic law, rape can only be proven if the rapist confesses or if there are four male witnesses. Women who allege rape, without the benefit of the act having been witnessed by four men who subsequently develop a conscience, are actually confessing to having sex. If they or the accused happens to be married, then it is considered to be adultery.
Still want to know what religion has to do with this, Mehdi?
you have to be kidding me !
well not much point in posting on here then is it, seeing as us Kaffars 'live as animals, bending any rule to fulful any desire' what does it matter what we say ?
I'm gobsmacked - this is intolerance.
People in glass houses comes to mind...
This is completly outrageous and any crimes towards vunerable people must be bought to justice. One can get all daily mailicised but is it is necessary to look on a wider scale. Pakistani men from deprived backgrounds cling to their gangs as a form of identity. Ditto black and socioimpoverished white Youths. If a similar study was carried out in peckham findings would be similar only with ethnic variant. The factor is social deprivation educationally and econmically. It is the same with females from similar backgrounds. They are also seeking security and validation. In this case let us consider Pakistanis can be very charming with big cars and will be generous. The girls featured in the cctv are not en route home but hanging around and hormanal teens crave attention its natural. The area is dark and no cars except the perpertrators in question. Why would young girls be alone if they are vunerable ? Surely they have homework and school to attend. Men of this nature will take adavntage of this situation. It beggars belief that parents allow this. Perhaps single parents low income families have other issues. If I were to walk in new cross at two in the morning I would be approached too. While not denying there may be a pattern and that muslim attitudes must change we cannot and must not ostracise a whole community. I know young women who see these men as an escape more exciting that a spotty youth who uses a pitbull for intimidation and expects sexual favours for a barcardi breezer. Let us not forget our oversexualised teens. Jeremy kyle maybe a show but the social delinquents are there.
"...i guess you did not ask him then? Obcourse you didnt as he will just prove how pathetic you are."
The reason why Asian females will be victims of these Muslim pedo gangs is because Asians can be of Hindu & Sikh background too. This is MUSLIMS grooming & raping NON-Muslim girls. There IS a racial element (white victims have reported being called 'white slut, white whore, white kuffar bitch' etc etc, but the driving force behind these attacks is the fact these girls are NON-Muslim.
"...at least you finally agree its not just white girls being abused. you blinkers are slowly opening."
In my FIRST post on this thread I stated VERY CLEARLY that Hindu & Sikh girls are also victims. Obviously you overlooked that. My eyes are WIDE open, and have been from the offset. Yours, not so much.
"it looks like you are just as narrow minded as them. you just proved me point. Thanks."
I didn't prove your point. I am intolerant towards Islam because Islam is intolerant towards ME. Remember, we are in Britain. Britain is NOT a Muslim country. I have EVERY RIGHT to hold such opinions of Islam, because when I look at the Muslim world, and the Muslim community in Britain, I see nothing BUT intolerance. A growth of Islam in Britain does not benefit non-Muslim Britons in any way whatsoever.
I'll expect another worthless, gutless reply along the lines of 'oh you're just an Islamophobe, you're so racist, you're just narrowminded blah blah blah... etc etc...'
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There seems to be a lot of people seething with hatred here. It seems unhealthy. Do you have email alerts informing you whenever there is a blog or article about Islam or Muslims? Because you seem to come out of the woodwork quite consistently to regurgitate a fair bit of rubbish on the subject. You know bits and pieces and pose as all-knowing scholars, but in reality you don't know much at all, which is quite obvious from what you write. Sometimes it's better to just pass by such ignorance with dignity, and leave others to their rage. Some of you seem very bitter and full of hatred, but I think you actually love Islam, which is why you always want to talk about it. Anyhow, good luck to you.
"...I do not worship what you worship
Nor do you worship what I worship;
I shall never worship what you worship;
Neither will you worship what I worship;
To you your religion, and me to my religion." (Qur'an, Chapter 109)
Live and let live.
Have a nice day. With peace.
I hear what you say. But I don't get why you feel you can speak with such authority on Islam and how it treats/views women? Majority of views here are probably posted by men. Some women from muslim backgrounds out there will agree about mysogeny in Islam, but I'm very sure there will be many muslim women who don't, and who feel the opposite. I'm not just very sure, I'm certain. And people, don't tell me they are all brainwashed and too dumb to think for themselves, or that they're too *scared* to say what they really feel, because that's incredibly patronising and insulting to ALL women. Reading all these comments, I just wonder why some people feel so sure that they know about the lives of all Muslim women, how they feel, what they think. Maybe you all feel this urge to speak up for them because you think they're so oppressed that they need a strong white man to be their saviours? A lot of assumptions and egos evident here, but most of it is unconvincing. Would echo heather's comments for ppl to open their minds.
@PysFeesh - It's not about the 'net birhrate', it's about the Muslim birthrate. Unfortunately there are no recent figures of what the size of the Muslim population is. But then those figures shouldn't be taken as proof, as the government is hell bent on making Britain a Muslim country. The Muslim population of Britain was 1.5 million in 2001. It is now well over 3 million. Therefore the British Muslim population more than doubled in less than 10 years. This is not just about birthrates, but also immigration too. At this rate, in 10 years time, the Muslim population will have more than doubled again. And so on, and so forth. I'm hardly alone when it comes to predicting Muslims will become the majority in a few decades time (infact all it would take would be Muslims of voting age to become the majority for Britain to be a Muslim country, as they would then have the most political power). I am taunted BY Muslims all the time about how Britain will one day have a Muslim majority.
What the hell does it matter if I know any Muslims or not? It's completely & utterly irrelevant. I have worked with a few, and got on fine with them. I had a couple as casual friends when I went to college (Epping Forest). That still doesn't change my mind that a growth of Islam in the UK DOES NOT benefit Britain in any way whatsoever. I am not one of these drones who thinks Islam is just another religion, like Buddhism or Sikhism. I believe the more Islam grows in Britain, the less freedom there will be, not just for non-Muslims, but for Muslims too (have a look at the discrimination the Ahmadiyya community has to put up with for example). It makes sense to believe that, when you look at what non-Muslims have to put up with across most of the Muslim world.
was jack straws brother a member of a racist white paedophile gang targeting underage muslim girls kasser,nice try but the truth is out now and muslims just cant handle it..shame on all the muslim community for trying to cover this evil up kasser.
BBC reports: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6153994.stm
The lower house of the parliament voted overwhelmingly on Wednesday to amend the controversial Sharia law that dates back to 1979.
Until now, rape cases were dealt with in Sharia courts. Victims had to have four male witnesses to the crime - if not, they faced prosecution for adultery.
So, all the Pakistani men that moved here between 1979 and 2006 presumably think it is entirely legal to rape women unless they are doing it in front of four other men who are themselves not rapists.
Ian - you might want to give this a read:
who is causing all this hatred??..12 year old white girls getting raped and abused by muslim men,just be thankfull the white community are so tolerant and not out rioting on the streets over this outrage..but the question is,, how much more can we take of this..
Pysfeesh - The white population of Britain ( and of the world in general) has indeed stopped "populating"( I think you mean procreating).
After years of successful propaganda aimed at limiting the size of their families by contraception and abortion, white couples on average produce only one child. This means that the white population halves with every passing generation. Muslim couples, on the other hand have on average, four children. That means the Muslim population doubles with each passing generation.
When the country is also subject to mass immigration,and Muslims continue to bring over spouses from the "old country," the process is speeded up, of course.
The Muslim population has not just increased by 10% since the last census in 2001 - it has doubled.
A few of us on here are giving you ample warning that the British are not going to become a minority in their own lands without kicking up a fuss. The British are very tolerant people but upset them too much and you get Dresden.Vive la Resistance!
Face it; your religion is ethically reprehensible and morally indefensible by any civilized standard. More and more—we in the West are beginning to “get it”.
@Des Demona - You quote "It is well known that the de facto caste system in Islam heirarchy looks down on those of Bangledeshi origin".
Caste system???? Thats a new one.
Pakistanis and Bangladeshis have an issue, some say unresolved, from the 1971 War of Independance. Nothing to do with religion old boy.
I cant be bothered with this anymore. Closed minds and all that.
Mehdi Hasan is a contributing writer for the New Statesman and the co-author of Ed: The Milibands and the Making of a Labour Leader. He was the New Statesman's senior editor (politics) from 2009-12.