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Melanie Phillips's latest outburst against Islam and Muslims is opportunistic and goes beyond the pale.
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Tags: Race Islam media
Proof? Proof that Mohammad led a gang of rapists and that Islam condones rape? Easy, Ismael.
Just take a look at the Hadiths and the Koran.
Koran - 4:24, 33:50, 23:5, 70:30 - which all state that Muslim men can have sex with captured slaves - even married ones!
Hadith? - Well, take a look at Bukhari,Volume 5, Book 59, Number 512 for starters. This is the one in which describes how Mohammad swaps his mate two slave-girls for one that he really fancies. He'd just wiped out all their menfolk and tortured the girl's husband to death, by the way. Nice man!
And there's plenty more where that came from - but why should I be pointing this out to you Muslims. You know all this is there but like to pretend it does not exist.
BTW - Some dhimmi accused me of googling - not true! Muslim apostate Ibn Warraq's "Why I'm not a Muslim" and the Koran are good enough for me.
And another thing; are any of you 'Islam is a religion of peace' preachers aware that the Egyptian government refuses to recognise conversions FROM Islam TO Christianity? I can hear a deafening silence from the Muslims & appeasers.
Let us also look at the treatment of appostates in Muslim communities/countries. How are they treated, eh Mehdi? Why are Muslim males allowed to marry non-Muslim females, but Muslim females are forbidden from marrying non-Muslim males? And what happens when a Muslim female does form a relationship with a non-Muslim male? Well, we *ALL* know the answer to THAT. It's funny how Muslims talk of integration, but I don't think they'd be in favour of allowing their women to marry non-Muslim males. Funny that. lol... That is, after all, "integration".
So, if Islam is the "fastest growing religion in the world", is it any wonder? Muslims learn from the moment they're born that they must live their life & die as a Muslim, not converting to any other religion or becoming atheist, otherwise they risk being disowned by their family, or losing their lfie altogether. Birthrates, and the fact Muslim males can marry non-Muslim females, with the children of such relationships being brought up as Muslims. It's not really an even playing-field, is it Muslims?
What a strange question, so much so almost didn't bother to answer but here goes...
If Muslim converts to Christianity or become an atheist then he's not a Muslim any more... end of.
Muslims in the West should emulate the good example for migrants that has been set over the centuries by Christian (and Jewish) migrants from Europe that have behaved so well and respected their host cultures in places ranging from China and India through Iraq and Palestine, North, Central and South Africa, and North, Central and South America. I'm sure the indigenous peoples of those areas would be glad to describe those exemplary behaviors to any Muslims who might want to emulate them.
"you seem to be (very rightly) condemning the recent murder of Salman Taseer."
No, I am condemning the tens of thousands of people who showed up asking for the killer to be freed. Read my post. Read the article.
"You might like to consider an opinion he tweeted on 24 December, a few days before he died: "My observation on minorities: A man/nation is judged by how they support those weaker than them not how they lean on those stronger"
Which "weaker" section are you talking about? The child rapists? Or the poor victims?
11 January 2011 at 14:55
Just take a look at the Hadiths and the Koran.
Koran - 4:24, 33:50, 23:5, 70:30 - which all state that Muslim men can have sex with captured slaves - even married ones!
For anyone who is serious about what the Quran says, take a look at the following:
There is no concept of having a sex slave in the Quran. As for hadith, as I've mentioned earlier the majority of them are fabricated.
I too am bowing out of this one.
for what it's worth, my respect is given to those members of the Islamic community who did concede that unequal/negative cultural attitudes towards women and especially 'western' women do exist.
Kasser - You cannot tell me that a book compiled (19 years after Mohammad's death) from scraps of paper, bits of wood and camel bone collected by his followers, is infallible.
What about the Hadith which relates that Ayesha said she'd had a surrah written on a scrap of paper but a goat had eaten it?
How many more bits were eaten by goats, kassar? How many bits were lost down the back of the settee?
The Koran is not fallible? Don't make me laugh!
Flat earth - stretched out like a carpet with mountains to pin it down and stop it from ruffling up?
A bloke having a conversion with ants? So there really is a place where the sun disappears into a muddy puddle? Djinns and giants?
Come on, any sane, rational person can see that this is out and out twaddle!
It's just a book - and a very boring, repetitive book full of borrowed stories at that - brimming with intolerance and incitement to violence. Even Ayesha's lost bit was about stoning people to death!
Get a grip!
Well said Olijaan - some people on here really need to get a life
The Mexicans in USA are known for similar activities with the young white girls ,they are never labeled as the Christian Mexicans , what is the punishment for adultery or sex before marriage in Islam ,should we not imply on these thugs who are belittling Islam and Pakistanis
I don't think it is right to call these people paedophiles. Paedophiles are people that derive pleasure out of sex with children. It is a sickness, really. There was no evidence that these people were paedophiles. The Derby judge noted that specifically. They are just after sex, and the kids happen to be easy victims.
Secondly, I don't think they specifically want to hit the white kids. It is not a race crime in that sense. They would be ready hit on whatever women would be available, but they have a special contempt for white women because their culture teaches them that.
So, I wouldn't be surprised if there were Bangladeshi girls or even Pakistani girls among the victims. But is is quite unlikely because the Muslim girls probably know what is happening and would avoid them like a plague. Their parents would be rather too controlling in any case.
I think all the self-righteous bleeding heart liberals who want to control what we think, what we say and how we make our judgements, are just plain stupid. They have no idea what is going on, and they choose not to know.
Ashyia was never 6 or 9 at the time of her marriage!!
Typical Muslim, can't answer the question. I am asking what happens to EX-Muslims (apostates), in the Muslim world or in Muslim communities in Britain for example? It's a VERY simple question, Kasser. But you have such great trouble answering it.
Another one for Buckskins regarding the mythical assimilated Muslims in the good ol' US of A.
November 2010. "Twenty-nine people have been indicted in a sex trafficking ring in which Somali gangs in Minneapolis allegedly forced girls under age 14 into prostitution in Minnesota, Tennessee, Ohio and other unnamed places, according to an indictment unsealed Monday."
It's the same the whole world over...it's the Muzzies wot gets the blame...and quite rightly, too. Wherever these invaders have their colonies this sort of thing goes on. (Down with this sort of thing!)
Take a dive into quantum mechanics and you'll find that the universe doesn't actually exist, we just think it does.
Anything is possible, don't limit you're narrow view paradigm, its anti science.
@Kasser - Ohhhhhh so you ARE able to respond to me? Why is it then you CHOSE to ignore this entire post I responded to you with earlier - "@Kasser - I'm not just talking about 'laws' in the Muslim world. I'm talking about the basic attitude towards apostates amongst even so-called 'moderate' Muslims. And no, this is not the case with all people of a "religious leaning". Christians do not practice this fascism. Nor do Buddhists.
And you're also very wrong when you say "only one country has laws against conversion". Iran, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Afghanistan, Libya, Muslim Nigeria, Pakistan... so that's quite clearly a lot more than "only one". And that's the LAW. Egypt also REFUSES to recognise conversions FROM Islam TO Christianity. Yet all the while Muslims say non-Muslims are viewed as "equal", and Islam is nothing but a "religion of peace"... despite the fact non-Muslims cannot even enter Mecca & Medina simply because they're not Muslim, as these cities are meant to be kept "pure".
And on another subject which is close to this issue (apostasy) - marriage. Why is it Muslim males are allowed to marry non-Muslim females, but Muslim females are not allowed to marry non-Muslim males? Equality for women? LOL!
In fact, Mr. Kasser, it is YOU who does not know what you're talking about. Although I suspect you know damn well what the truth is, and you're simply attempting to cover it up (taqiyya). But failing miserably."
Can I get a REPLY to the ABOVE??? Or are you just too much of a coward? I'm waiting...
And Kasser, the Moors INVADED Spain & France and were attempting to take over Europe by the sword. Non-Muslims under the caliphate were treated as second class citizens & had to pay Jizya (infidel tax), or they'd be killed. How "civil". The Berbers really "civilsed" Europeans when they took over 1.5 million Irish, English, Welsh, French, Scottish, Italian, Spanish slaves... right? LOL
We wouldn't have Oxford university or the Renaissance without Islamic barbary? LOL
Wow. What a load of racist drivel being posted. It was not a crime motivated by religion, race, culture but one carried out by clearly twisted individuals. People on here are complaining about the seperatism of ethnic/religous groups all the while declaring a state of them and us. Nonsense. Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Black, White, Jedi - we are all British and all should widely condemn such deplorable actions by anybody in our society!
@ david smith
What will happen to a british man if he betrays his country, or if an american betrays his country. something called treason?
I guess the same priciple applies to muslim who become non-muslim. he get charged for treason and the state applies the appropriate punishment. I assume( as an atheist) from a discussion i had with a muslim friend, that it is only applicable by the state (islamic state, which he said there is not an example of at this time if history)
Just for you...
Let me give you a wisdom of my journey: born a Muslim but outside the family unit was raised as a Christian; later exploring Judaism and Buddhism, I become an atheist.
Was I treated like a pariah, no. Was I threatened, no.
Many years later because of personal experiences and analysis, and not though preaching, I reverted back to being Muslim.
@Olijaan: "I think we've really moved on."
Moved on? Really? Does that mean you have stopped using racist terms like "kaffir"?
Actually you need to read up on your history mate, the bloke is right.
"Nobody is claiming that all Muslim men do this but it does not refute the evidence that it is a crime shown to be rife in the Muslim culture."
Really? Are you 100% sure about that; that it's "rife in the Muslim culture"??
The mind truly boggles.
Never mind quantum mechanics, kasser. I don't take any notice of mechanics until my car breaks down. I am interested in djinns, though. I asked Dawud earlier but I appear to have frightened him off, so perhaps you can answer - where do you stand on the thorny problem of whether or not, according to Islam, humans can marry djinns? Being a Muslim, you do believe in djinns, I take it.
Imran is this interpretation acceptable ?
I note it has no relevance I can see to the subject of Mr Hasan's article. I already understand the seemingly blanket animosity between the state of Israel and Islamic theocracies / Arab states in the middle east is relatively recent (62 years or so) is that the point of reading the Medina charter ?
It's true though. In my area, we're always seeing these WHITE ENGLISH men in flashy cars driving around eyeing up our young teenage girls. They wolf whistle them and try to get them into their cars.
I know one girl who told them to get lost but don't know if she reported it to the police.
How come I never see Muslim men chasing little girls? The thing is, it must be a cultural problem. And people like you ignoring that make the problem worse. Why are you not willing to admit that it is these White men who are in the wrong? Until you admit it, the problem will continue. You are only in denial because you are I assume White yourself so are sticking up for your own people. Shameful. Wake up and smell the coffee.
(Read Mark's post first)
@Derick - The Moors conquered Spain by the sword and then placed all non-Muslims under their rule, with non-Muslims having to pay jizya, otherwise they'd be killed. How "civil" of them.
And I'm not your mate. :-)
I never cease to be amazed at the wriggling and lies that Muslims will engage in to deny what is in their own religious traditions!
Anything in their own traditions that show just what sort of man their far from perfect "Holy Man" really was, is now fabricated!unauthentic! or forgeries!"
But even then, there's still the
Koran 4:24 - "And all married women are forbidden unto you save those (captives)whom your right hands possess."
They never argued, either, about the age of Ayesha until Westerners started to take notice and talk about paedophilia - then suddenly they all started trying to say that she was 19 not nine!
They've even tried it on with the fact that the Koran indicates that the earth is flat like a carpet by bringing out a translation ( in 1984, I believe)which now pretends that the Koran says it is egg-shaped!
"Taqiyya" and "kitman." Look it up if you don't know what this is - but it's basically about Muslims deliberately lying in the cause of Islam..
I suppose the Hadith that describes how Mohammad punched Ayesha in the chest during an argument is also fabricated? Foregone conclusion, isn't it?
@Imran – nobody here has claimed they know everything about Islam. Nobody can – just look at the differences between Sufiism with Wahabiism, moderate muslim’s can say this ‘prejudice’ or that ‘law’ etc. is not in the Koran - but what is true is that there are very different interpretations in Sharia law, and these rules vary across the world – the website simply shows one ‘islamic’ view - essentialy that women not covering themselves are inviting rape. (ignoring other obvious cultural moral views on superiority)
I don’t see how it is possible to separate cultural or religious attitudes from these crimes.
That of course is not to say other elements are involved, of course there are.
Which brings me to your “In this particular case, as is the case with so much harm that occurs in our society, drugs and alcohol are involved. When are we going to wake up and realise just how much harm these intoxicants are causing in our society and start taking serious steps to curb the availability of them.” point – which seems rather similar to that illustrated by the linked Islamic web site:
– if Alcohol wasn’t available / if the girls were not wearing revealing clothes Vs. Alcohol not available / girls staying indoors unless properly attired
i.e. if the temptation wasn’t there the men would not commit these crimes, which again appears to place the responsibility on the victim ?
I think it would be foolish of us to believe that we're the only intelligent life in the universe, that's self evident as is science acceptance of the concept of multiple universes.
As does the Quran which talks about entities that exist in the same plain but in a parallel existence, have no problem with dealing with that either.
Your own 'experiences' are completely & utterly worthless, because there is no way you can prove what you say to be true. Look at the whole picture. You know very well that in a Muslim country, if a Muslim becomes atheist, or converts to another religion and then TELLS people, he/she will be risking their life. They would be disowned from their family.
No amount of twisting, diverting, lying (taqiyya) will change the facts, Muslim. Your lies don't work with me. They work with the 'multiculturalists' & that ilk, but not with me.
Islam, a religion of 'peace'? Ha ha ha ha!!!
Muslims may like to pretend that other religions are just as subject to "misinterpretation" as is their “perfect” one, but the reality speaks of something far worse.
good point sean,, but i say brown because these particular racists and extremists just happen to be brown,,and this is what the problem is,,extremism is extremism and must be tackled and highlighted from whatever section of the community it is coming from,that is the way forward to a more cohesive society for the non extremist community who just want to live there lifes in peace and safety..
"no alternative but to embrace Islam"
How long were you in for?
Your troops are a joke. They were run out of Basra declaring victory and we had to shift them out of Helmand Province Afghanistan so the rest of us could get on with it. Your troops are sent to the field by your govt with their butts hanging out their uniforms. I never came across such a bunch of scroungers in my life. Your purpose is to give us some political cover. Nothing more and nothing less.
Should have known that you wouldn't have bothered with a factual documentary.
Guess you're one of those infamous israeli based blog commentators set up by the regime to troll and knock anything marked as anti israel.
To all those racists and neo-fascists ranting on this blogs this week in the news so far has had three seperate cases of "white english men (and women)" commiting sexual crimes against children and women...look at the stories of Colin Blanchard (paedophile sex ring leasder), then there was the 20 year old "white" paedo from birmingham's little star nursary, then today we have a police officer Stephen Mitchell, charged with rape- I think you wil find that the vast majority of paedophiles and sex offenders are in the white community- please reflect on this before you point fingers at other communities. What is the white community doing to stop these animals.
That is not to protect or defend these ethnic criminals. Justice should be blind. Theses criminals regardless of the ethnicity are trash- its not about race it about criminal feeding on vunerable people.
Perhaps the topic under discussion has been left a little astray?
Still, perhaps the real question shouldn't be 'how is my religion to blame for .....(take your pick) but instead the question should be ' if I choose to believe in a religion, no matter how outlandish its tennets (again take your pick - Old Testament - Eve made out of one of Adams ribs and the rest of humanity is based on incestuous relationships - New Testament, Jesus turning water into wine, walking on water etc- The Quaran with its djinns and shaaytan - and flting horses - Scientology with its ----well just plain looney tunes)
then should I just shut the hell up and get on with it (or possibly seek psychiatric help?)
Here we go again -
Four men and three boys have been charged with raping a woman at Bendigo in central Victoria, Australia.
Mohammad Zaoli, 21, Aru Gar, 19, and Mohammad El Nour and Akoak Manon, both 18 years old, are each facing 17 offences including counts of rape and assault.
Three boys aged from 14 to 17 have been charged with the same offences.
Remember what the Aussie Imam said? Meat left out for the cats? That's how he, and unfortunately a lot of Muslim men, appear to see kuffar women.And it's down to their religion.
Lets not play make believe eh,Mehdi ? Your use of 'statistics' overlooks three very salient facts.
1] From the Guardian (of all papers) "Two-thirds of British Asians think that reporting child abuse would have a negative effect on the 'honour' of a child's family, according to an NSPCC survey" "The survey also revealed that 37 per cent of the sample had suspected a child had been abused and half of them knew the child personally. However, 42 % DID NOTHING about their concerns." "Why the CONSPIRACY OF SILENCE" Mehdi??
Since Mohammed consummated his marriage to Aisha when she was but 9 years old how many devout Muslims even consider such age differences as being a crime in the first place?
and 3] Today's British Police are so terrified of accusations of racism that they are reluctant to even begin to investigate such matters without overwhelming evidence to start with.
Evidence which is not forthcoming for the above 2 reasons.
Have a nice day.
11 January 2011 at 02:03
@historybuff (ironic name)
Ironic name. Do you know why Slavery was originally abolished in the UK? They reason it was abolished was that it didn't make economic sense to continue with slavery - it was certainly not a moral decision"
Your correct Alu. Don't blame the posters in here though please. History is not taught in British schools in any amount of consequence. Given their history it's understandable. When they abolished slavery it was not abolished in the colonies. It was abolished by the Brits in part because they could not compete with our Southern plantations. The average life span of a slave on a British sugar plantation was 7 years. It was cheaper to work them to death and replace them. Millions died as a result.
@ David Smith.
That's telling it like it is.
Islam the religion of peace??
No publicity is bad publicity for people like Mehdi. A respected politician like Jack Straw, in a predominantley Muslim constituency like Blackburn speaks up. Islamophobia howls Mehdi with depressing predictability.
A sample of the titles of the erstwhile 'political editor of the NS' recent blogs
'Why do they pick on us Pakistanis'
'The Strangulation of Gaza'
'Jan Moir's silly attack on jemimah Kahn'
'The rise of Qatarphobia'
'How do we negotiate with the Taliban'
'Interview with Lutfur Rahman'
And that only goes back to November Throw in a lot more like ;the Great burkah/niquab debate'. 'A guide to ramadan for the tits who read this ' ok I paraphrase there but the meaning was in the original title) Muslim Man of the Year, etc and it is easy to see that Mehdi Hasan is less a political commentator than an islamist spokesman.
Some of us aren't fooled.
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free than Christianity has made them good. " ~ H. L. Mencken
Yet another absurd statement, again you're going off topic... but I guess that is the strategy, is it not?
THEY ARE FUCKING TERRORRISTS MAN....
Sorry but clearly you don't what your talking about, there is only one country that has laws against conversion. Am sure some will experience personal difficulties should they decide to convert but isn't that the case with all people of a religious leaning.
As for my experience, sorry I wasted my time in telling you about it, if you're looking for intolerance and ignorance just take peak at mirror.
fuck u brits...soon islam will conquer Britain and america...time is nt far when we wil convert ur queen to islam....white women dont dress modestly...they dont wear burqa..so is the case.
Mehdi Hasan is a contributing writer for the New Statesman and the co-author of Ed: The Milibands and the Making of a Labour Leader. He was the New Statesman's senior editor (politics) from 2009-12.