@ Samia.

The reason these Pakistani's + there associated religion have been brought into the discussion is because it is there Strong Religious and Cultural identity that has created an attitutde of segragation and non assimalation.

Unbelievers are described by Muhammad (in the Qur'an) as "the vilest of animals" and "losers." Christians and Jews are hated by Allah to the extent that they are destined for eternal doom as a result of their beliefs. It would make no sense for Muhammad to then recommend them to be taken in as friends by Muslims. In fact, the Qur'an plainly commands believers not to take unbelievers as friends.

Bringing other religions down to the level of Islam is one of the most popular strategies of Muslim apologists when confronted with the spectacle of Islamic crime and violence. Why pick on Islam if other religions have the same problems?

The Truth: Because they don’t.

Excellent article and comment Mehdi. Also, credit to Heather for her comprehensive message of clarity.. Heed her advice - open your minds.

@dillon
dont disagree with you...like i said there are "idiots" in every community, including amongst the so called "white community"- you've heard of Nick Griffin and his loonies and the EDL have you not?

I think you need to put the right type of blinkers on as you only seem to see brown.

dont just speak about extremism when it comes from others.

some introspection needed...

How on earth is a backward Dark Age cult of credulous cretins that was founded by a paedophile and teaches (and makes it an article of Sharia law) that women are merely second class chattel who only have half the rights of men and to be abused, forced to cover up in public, forced into marriage and honour killed if they don't agree possibly be blamed for Asian men who follow that religion becoming misogynistic sexual predators?

Answers on a post card anyone?

These Pedophiles, were English born and bred a product of our society.
Homegrown, might be a bit darker then everyone else but undoutable ENGLISH.
Not Pakistani, i'm sure they've never seen Pakistan.
Not Muslim, I'm sure they never saw the inside of their local mosque.
And most importantly. These people were CRIMINALS.
Surprisingly enough thats why their sitting in prison.
So please can we stop all this nonesense, British Muslims have'nt got a higher propensity to eye up your 10 year old daughter then their White British Chritian, Jewish, Hindu or Sikh counterparts. PEACE.

I am a subscriber to the NS but this is the first time I have read all the online comments following a blog. The actual blog from Mehdi was excellent and incisive. The comments following it are not and are offensive to me. Being a muslim revert I am close to both sides of this debate as I am white British man in my 40's. I am dissapointed that a publication as progressive as the NS allows opinions such as these to be propogated on its website. This is not the Daily Mail after all. Why do you not mediate the website so that only posts that carry valid opinions are published. I am not in favour of censorship but I am more in favour of only publishing the truth.

@David Smith....all the major world religions have sordid sad histories, Islam being no exception. Christianity had the crusades, Judaism has many dark chapters where Christians were hounded into exile. Hinduism has a very rigid and unfair caste system even today. The point is, does the blame lie at the door of the Crusading, pillaging ancestor whose descendant has robbed a bank today? No it does not, and likewise, we cant blame the religion a murderer, a rapist, or any other law breaker follows. And THAT i think, was the point that Mehdi was trying to make.
@Russ.....ethically reprehensible and morally indefensible? You find it very easy to judge beliefs based on what you think is right or wrong.Do you find catholicism equally reprehensible because catholic priests molested children? Are you OK with the concept of satti or with the orthodox Hindu belief of not letting a widow get married again? Does it bother you that Hassidic Jews are not allowed to watch TV, listen to music,or do anything 'frivolous'? No religion is perfect. Going by your logic, you should find them all ethically reprehensible and morally indefensible then.

Stuart - refer back to the comment by Phil (11 Jan, 12:59): "I was on the jury of one of these northern town trials. Islam didn't come into it and most defendants didn't swear on the koran."

@Medhi

"The number of Islamophobic comments below the line is depressing if predictable."

Your mindless propaganda for Islamo Fascism is depressing if somewhat predictable.

However, we know what you really are and what you really think:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APAPqT3QdFU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhPeyxJ7vGU&feature=related

Why do the BBC, the New Statesmen and other media outlets continue to provide a platform to fascists like Medhi is the real question that needs to be properly explored in considerable detail.

Good post Hans Castorp.

I have to say I'm completely baffled by this insistence that Islam despite it's literally hundreds of different forms, is somehow excluded from being 'Islamic' if it doesn't conform to a particular persons personal interpretation, we all know it's true that in many parts of the world cultural practices and the religious practices of Sharia law discriminate against women and Kaffars - denying these factors may have had a bearing on these crimes, in my view, is simply sticking your head in the sand.

The problem with Muslims is they really can never be held to account. When it suits you hide behind the collective of the Muslim brotherhood and in the case of the systematic raping and grooming of under age White girls it becomes an individuals responsibility.

In my mind I believe what we are seeing is young Muslim men who are too frightened to take up battle on the War killing fields are fighting a jihad here in Britain by not following Man made laws and disrupting our society at every opportunity.
There is never any sense that elders wish to control the young men who break the laws. I say the reintroduction of the death penalty is the only option and deportation of the wider families to an Islamic land.
Islam and liberal Britain just does not mix and if we want top avoid Pakistani's and Muslims becoming the new Jews of Europe with all the tragic consequences then we must ban Islam from the UK and EU.

http://www.ezsoftech.com/akram/hijab.asp
When Allah (SWT) commanded our sisters to observe Hijab, it was because of the universal damages that would be caused by refusing to observe it. It is not a matter of individual behavior, as many people may think. A woman going out exposing her charms attracts men, which sets off a chain of undesirable events, causing lot of harm to several people. Thus, the indecent behavior of one person affects the community as a whole. Although the person, who originally caused the damage, is to be blamed for all the consequences, other members of the community are also responsible to some extent for allowing such a thing to happen. Therefore, it becomes a collective responsibility of all of us to ensure that such damages are not caused.
Removal of the Hijab makes you vulnerable to the lust of men.
What are the disadvantages of discarding Hijab?
• Becoming an easy target of anti-social elements.
• Causing great stresses, insecurity and suspicion in the minds of husbands, ultimately disturbing the familial harmony.
• Instigating young people to deviate towards the path of lust and immorality.
• Giving rise to cases of divorce, adultery, rape and illegitimate children.

perhaps this view is why islam is to blame ?

@Olijaan: "Ian - you might want to give this a read:

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/dissident-voice/2009/07/is..."

For your information, I never thought Mehdi Hasan was an Islamist or extremist. But my purpose was to indicate how widespread this kind of Fascist language and imagery is among Muslims, that even a liberal Muslim like Mehdi Hasan ends up using it without giving it a second thought. The problem is not with Hasan. It is with Islam.

Islam is a tribe. Hasan is trying to be a tribal leader. By its nature, the tribe tries to define itself by drawing a circle around itself and branding the outsiders. This tribalism is increasing day by day. More Islam retreats into itself, the more insecure it feels, the more it needs to assert itself, the more tribal it has to become.

So, the aspiring tribal leader that he is, Hasan naturally reacts by saying, "why are you blaming my religion?" He cannot react rationally and ask "what is going wrong inside my tribe?", like Ramadhan Foundation has done or like the Muslim Forum has done. They are true reformers, and they are to be acclaimed. Not Hasan. Maybe he will wake up one day and face the truth. But I won't bet on it.

People KEEP on saying 'why doesn't the ethnicity of white pedophiles get brought up when we hear about white pedophiles?'... BECAUSE IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. They are white men abusing WHITE children. The reason why Straw brought up the ethnicity/religion of Pakistani Muslim men is because it's PAKISTANI MUSLIM men who make up nearly all of these grooming crimes. The victims are mostly WHITE, but there are also Hindu & Sikh victims. It's the fact these men are MUSLIM, that's why they're targetting NON-Muslim girls. The reason; it is a way of stating their superiority over the non-Muslim (infidel), and demoralising the enemy (non-Muslim).

Now, if it was WHITE MEN grooming PAKISTANI MUSLIM girls, THEN the race of these WHITE MEN would be brought up. And let's add another aspect to it... what if it was WHITE, CHRISTIAN MEN raping & grooming PAKISTANI MUSLIM girls IN Pakistan? What do you all think the reaction from the Muslim population would be? I can tell you for sure there'd be no 'politically correct' nonsense stopping the Pakistani media from reporting on these crimes, outlining the obvious ethnic/religious element. There would be riots. ALL white people would be attacked. So, Mehdi, just you remember this.

I mean, is it any bloody wonder why there's such a conflict between Muslims & non-Muslims? Of course it's not the fault of the non-Muslims. Just look at the FACT non-Muslims are not even allowed to ENTER the cities of Mecca & Medina, simply because they're not Muslim. I have been told by Muslims THEMSELVES that this is because these cities are meant to be kept "pure". Need I say any more?

And Muslims, maybe you should do a bit of studying about Muslim massacres & enslavement before you start pointing the finger at ol' whitey. Arab Muslims had been ensalving black Africans over 1000+ before whitey came along. Indeed slavery is still practiced to this day in Africa, with Muslims enslaving Christians. Armenian genocide, Assyrian genocide, Greek genocide... all commited by Muslims. In all 3 cases, the victims Christian. In Indonesia, Christians are prevented from building new Churches. In Pakistan, Churches are regularly attacked & Christian bashing/murdering is the national sport (after Cricket of course, which we dirty infidel pigs exported over to you); google 'Muslim mob Pakistan Christian' and do some reading.

Christians used to be the majority in Egypt. Now look at their situation. They REALLY benefited from Muslims becoming the majority, eh? Afghanistan... such a paradise for non-Muslims. Iran... yes, Iran... famed for its 'peaceful & loving' attitude towards non-Muslims... jeez, they can't even get on with their Sunni "brothers". How about Libya? Very friendly towards non-Muslims, right? Or Somalia? Yemen? Bangladesh? Saudi Arabia? Oman?

Turkey's PM stated "The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers...". How peaceful. How loving. How tolerant. How cohesive. How Islamic.

Why are we talking about Islam so much? Because we need to. It's not for no reason. We're not talking about Sikhs or Buddhists, are we? Why? Because if Sikhs & Buddhists were to grow, and one day become the majority in Britain, it wouldn't have detrimental effect on Britain. But if Muslims were to become the majority in Britain, would that be positive for non-Muslims? Of course it wouldn't. It wouldn't benefit them in any way at all. That's what Mehdi wants, but it ain't happening. I mean, is there a single Muslim country whose Muslim inhabitants would just sit back, say nothing, do nothing, whilst non-Muslims became the majority? We all know the answer to that.

Now, Muslims make up around 5% of the population, and yet look at the influence they have in Britain ALREADY. Current birthrates determine Muslims will become the majority in Britain within 50 years.

Just imagine Britain, if Muslims one day make up 20%, 30%, 40%... 50%+ of the population. What a truly AWFUL thought. And for those who say 'well would would be so bad about that?', let me ask you... is there ANY Muslim country you would rather live in over Britain? Taking into consideration you'd be a NON-Muslim living in a Muslim country. Here's a twist... you'd be a gay, transexual Jew. How welcome do you think you'd be? Would you be viewed as equal by society? Or even by law? No. You wouldn't.

Islam has nothing to offer Britain, Europe, or the rest of the NON-Muslim world. Sorry Mehdi, but your dreams of a Muslim majority Britain will not be realised. I know that must hurt you, but as I said... is there a single Muslim country whose Muslim inhabitants would sit back and allow non-Muslims to become the majority? And of course it makes sense to ask 'Why wouldn't they want non-Muslims to become the majority?'. Well, how in the hell would it benefit the Muslim population? It wouldn't.

Muslims and non-Muslims CAN live in peace on this planet... we CAN live side by side... but only in seperate countries. Muslims believe this also, which is why no Muslim country would ever allow non-stop mass non-Muslim immigration.

Islam doesn't have a future in Britain. Buddhism does. Sikhism does. Hinduism does. But Islam? No. All anyone needs to do is look at the Muslim world to see what Islam is. What do we find? Intolerance, intolerance, intolerance. The persecution of non-Muslims in the Muslim world is ignored all too often. There is an exodus of Christians from the middle-east, and the Western media ignores it, so I seriously doubt the middle-eastern Muslim media covers it. How very sad. My heart aches for these poor Christians, having to flee THEIR homes, and THEIR countries, because of Islamofascism. Christians were walking those lands for 600 years before Islam even EXISTED, but now it looks as though Christianity in the middle-east is facing complete annhialation.

One last thing... the fact Muslims are upset to the point they RIOT, over CARTOONS of Muhammad, yet are completely silent when non-Muslims are slaughtered by Muslims should say it all. Muslims want to be viewed as 'one' entity when they believe their fellow Muslim "brothers & sisters" are being persecuted (Gaza for example), but when it's Muslims doing the persecuting, Muslims say 'don't all group us together'. Funny that...

@Enragedbrit-i agree there are other ethnic groups who are involved- including white men- if you remmember in the early reports about this gang- there was a "white man" in the very gang we are discussing.

there are also many reports of Russian and eastern europeans child sex trafficing- and many of their clients are white "english" men.

My point is men and women (as in the case of Colin Blanchard and his "white" grang) of all colours and creed carry out child abuse.

All the major world religions have sordid sad histories, Islam being no exception. Christianity had the crusades, Judaism has many dark chapters where Christians were hounded into exile. Hinduism has a very rigid and unfair caste system even today. http://www.dentaljournal.org/

STILL, Muslims & appeasers cannot give me the answers which I, and so many others desire. Well, they CAN, but they know it will contradict their nonsensical message that Islam is a 'religion of peace'... so they keep it schtum. lol

I shall read it at some point thank you Imran. I think I need to point out again though, that there are very many interpretations of Islamic jurisprudence, Sharia law etc. Who is to decide which is 'true' and which is not ? Imam's who have lived in the UK for 6 months ? Imam's who practice Deobandi islam, Sunni, Shiia, Sufi - just who gets to decide ?

@Cicero: you seem to be (very rightly) condemning the recent murder of Salman Taseer. You might like to consider an opinion he tweeted on 24 December, a few days before he died: "My observation on minorities: A man/nation is judged by how they support those weaker than them not how they lean on those stronger" http://twitter.com/#!/SalmaanTaseer

That is a sentiment which is equally applicable to this country.

Erm, what are the Eastern European gangs mired in sexual slavery - Christian, Muslims, Jews or atheist?

@GK, nice try but no banana.

***I NEVER said these Muslim thugs were only picking on "whites". I said they're only picking on NON-Muslims. Because THAT'S what is comes down to; Muslim men preying on NON-Muslim girls.***

Can you explain the Bangladeshi Muslim girls they also attacked? They don’t matter, It is only the non muslims according to you.

You are only fooling yourself.
Take care

@EnragedBrit
10 January 2011 at 19:55
"I mean - capturing girls, making sex-slaves of them, swapping them with his mates was something Mohammad was no stranger to, was it? According to the Hadith it appears that this was just a perk of the job.

Or are you going to claim that these ancient Muslim stories are "unauthentic" like all the other Islamic texts that inconveniently show the "Perfect Man" in a bad light?"

Yes, they are inauthentic. How you understand hadith and scholarly works depends on how well you understand wider polemics in the ancient Islamic world. The best way to justify heinous crimes is to invent a story portraying the Prophet as doing it. It's pretty simple stuff, especially when you understand that the people authenticating many of these hadith sat in the pockets of the kings. As Mehdi says, there is nothing in the Quran that allows this type of behaviour

It seems to me that people are ignoring the researcher who conducted this research. Don’t worry the limitation within her study like overrepresentation and focus on specific area which she pointed out on News night does not matter. We clearly have expects who know about the research conducted then the actual researcher. That is so amazing.

According to them, there is a specific problem amongst "Pakistani men” It doesn’t matter about the non white girls or Muslim girls; let’s just dismiss them as well as the researcher who conducted this study.

They are the best person to read and translate these findings apparently.

Oh and let forget the police departments who were the ones who caught these men. They said on newsnight that if they were to concentrate on "Pakistani men" as you put it they would have lost 80% of the men they caught.

And yes I do think idiots in here are bigoted.

How else can I explain someone who ignores and completely dismisses police department, researcher who looked at these cases and children charities that support these victim.

How can explain someone like you who ignores the non white victims?

How can you explain people who have spent at least hours on the internet quoting why Islam is the reason which clearly isn’t?

How can you explain those who managed to link religion and culture to hand full of men but can’t establish a link to culture or religion amongst white men who also commit same crimes?

Sexual repression and obsession of women in Islam is the reason then why is it that “grooming” is a nationwide problem and committed by men who have sexual liberation and brought up in environment where they don’t have similar values as “Islam”? It clear people in here are hell bent on bashing the Muslim or Pakistani community. Thus, I rightly concluded they are bigoted; nothing they say or do will change that.

I would advise people not to reply back to bigoted and hell bent individuals with possibly multiple accounts who are full of hatred. It is obvious especially for those who quoted from “religion of peace” website to justify their reasoning. A website is that is clearly inaccurate in so many ways. Also, the fact they turned this discussion on to why “Islam” is “dangerous” in the UK. They clearing don’t care about the victim otherwise how you can explain them turing this discussion to their agenda of “problems with Islam”.

So don’t expect me to reply back. I don’t reply back to bigoted and hateful individuals. In doing so, I would be wasting more of my time as I have already wasted in enough.

Good day

"How on earth is my religion to blame for Asian gangs and sex abuse"

By instilling an us and them mentality in Muslims, by denigrating non-Muslims, by demanding segregation from no-Muslims, and a whole range of other dehumanising techniques that would sit well in any supremacist ideology.

Well, folks, Mehdi Hasan asks, how on earth is my religion to blame for Asian gangs and sex abuse. I have just posted 5 or 6 posts above explaining why his religion is to blame. And, why exactly does he call it "my religion"? Why not "their religion"? Somehow, respectability is to transferred from him to his religion and from there to the perpetrators?

I don't think so. We might respect him, but we need to not respect his religion, much less the perpetrators' religion.

If Hasan took off his blinkers, he would notice that they are being called "Muslim gangs" because that is what they are. They are made up of Muslim men. If some gangs were made up of white men or black men, you would call them "white gangs" or "black gangs," wouldn't you? What is so unusual about that? Do any of us complain that we are all being tarnished just because some gangs have been identified and labelled? This is silly.

The point is that Islam is very much to blame in these crimes. Islam is the worst religion on earth for its mistreatment of women and mistreatment of other religions. Tens of thousands of rallied yesterday to support the killer, repeat KILLER, of the Punjab governor who stood up for the poor Christian woman accused of blasphemy. If the Pakistan government doesn't acquit him, it will be accused of sucking up to the West, and more people in the government will get killed for it too. The fanaticism, intolerance and insanity present in Islam is simply mind-boggling.

So, Hasan asks how is "my religion" to blame? Yasmin A-B, who also belongs to the same religion, explained why. She mentioned the deep-seated sex discrimination and disrespect for women present in the community. She also mentioned the bigotry to whites practised by many members in the community. She also mentioned how this bigotry is systematically propagated in religious places of worship. If Hasan was true to his word, he would do something about it. He might start by first disassociating himself from "their religion" and start looking at rationally.