I always find much to agree with in Laurie Penny's columns, and she is right here to point out the 'lazy reasoning' of people like Mensch. However, I'm very disappointed that Penny goes on to apply the exact same lazy reasoning to veganism. The media in general likes to dismiss vegans as self-righteous weirdos eating 'mulch' and feeling smug, but these perceptions are just plain wrong. It's irritating to see Penny perpetuating them, when normally she is so good at getting to the heart of things and seeing through cant.

Laurie: I'm a vegan not because it 'makes me feel good about myself' (though you know yourself that living by your principles is good for self-respect). I don't eat mulch - I eat delicious food pretty much all the time, unless I'm hungover, in which case it'll be a mountain of hummous on toast. And as for 'not being a step closer to changing the world' - this is just plain wrong, and a surprising thing to read from the pen of a left-wing activist. Every person that decides to reject the abusive capitalist meat and dairy industries *is* making a difference. In fact, saying no to meat is the only way make the change: the reason these industries are so cruel is because the only thing they care about is profit. If the cruelty starts damaging the profit, because fewer people are willing to buy it, they will have to start thinking about welfare. The meat, egg, and dairy industries are exactly the sort of industries I thought you would want to tackle. But instead you just dismiss vegans as deluded oddballs with miserable diets and smug attitudes. Thanks, you've just helped reinforce the agenda of the slaughter industry. You've described veganism in almost identical terms to those of Giles Coren on Radio 4 this week. Coren and Mensch are the best of friends, of course, and it's surprising to find you inadvertantly taking their side.

Well said! Ethical consumerism is something we should all continually aspire to, to the extent of our budget/capacity, but sometimes you have to choose your battles. Avoiding brands with unethical practices is not only impossible on ta grand scale, but even if one embraces the inevitability of being hypocritical to some extent and does what one can, it takes time and money. Sometimes we don't have that time and money, and it's showing your privilege to expect people who have less than you to buy organic hand-reared meat (or indeed give up their life in order to rear their own). And sometimes that time and money is better spent trying to change the world in other ways.

There is definitely a place for attempting to shop as ethically as one can, and for trying to create and reuse rather than buy new as much as possible. I admit I'd be a bit suspicious of an anti-capitalist activist who didn't do any of those things at all. But there is absolutely a balance to be struck, and other things that need doing, and I agree with you that making those compromises disqualifies no-one from the debate.

I have no objections to people with a smart phone who went to a private school speaking about social justice. I am just really pissed off that they are the people who get to speak about it..there are plenty of people out there who went to crap secondary moderns and therefore have never had the kind of income that covers a smart phone but unfortunately no one wants to listen to them because they dont have the economic or cultural capital that gets you listened to. So before we start talking about who has a legitimate right to be heard lets not forget that some people are not even invited to speak

"If capitalism is a disease, everything and everyone is infected."

I think it would be more appropriate to say:

"Capitalism has been a success, and everyone has benefited."

...and Starbucks is a prime example of that. A highly successful international company providing jobs and wealth creation.

La Mensch made an utter fool of herself on HIGNFY with the coffee and tent comment.

I would have thought "all the benefits of capitalism" included more that coffee and tent seams?

In fact, is the "occupation" (which that fat head Boulton on Sky news compared to occupied France - "the Germans didn't go home in the evening") is pointing out that some enjoy all the benefits of capitalism while the rest of us pick up the bill.

Don't even get me started on Mel Philips argument on R4's Moral Maze that protesting in this form is essentially squatting and illegitimate. Though in the same programme Claire Fox complained bitterly that the St Paul's camp don't believe in anything. Then went on to take issue with some of the beliefs she says they do not have.

These people are just scared of the movement and are trying to discredit it. Though what they are really doing is making themselves look like idiots.

You should read Sartre's 'Dirty hands' for a nice quote or two on the lunacy of political purism.
The communist leader Hoederer attacks his subordinate's refusal to compromise:
'It's not in refusing to lie that we abolish the lie'.

I really enjoy your blog posts Laurie, particular this one.

This has been troubling me for a while now as I have the occasional Starbucks, I own an iphone, I went to private school, I have three degrees and my job entails lobbying MPs at Westminster.

On the political spectrum I am 'left wing' and my views are grounded from that side of the political spectrum. This topic has often troubled my mind - how 'valid' are my ideals (me even?) if I occassionally have the Gingerbread Latte while checking out the newsfeed on Facebook via my iPhone?

Whilst Laurie's conclusion makes me feel good and 'safe' about my position, some comments above raised good points and make me question myself and place me back to square one.

On reflection though...Laurie addresses them in some respects and points out that we are immersed in a capitalist society (whether we like it or not)- and to function/change anything, we will have to function in it...This however does not necessitate the need to be hypocritical in our lifestyles, but owning/consuming/engaging with something considered 'capitalist' is inevitable.

I can sit in the middle of a grassy field (probably owned by some big corporate firm anyway), in clothes that I made, from fabric that i gathered, drinking collected rain water in my palms whilst enjoying the fruits picked from the neighbouring tree - but if I want to change the things that I disagree with, I will have to step out of that image and engage with capitalism. It's just simply unavoidable.

I don't feel this makes me hypocritical. It makes me realistic. Changing it from within and without is the way forward. One doesn't work without the other.

Thank you again Laurie for yet another stimulating article!

p.s. I agree also that you didn't have to justify how you got your job - but I relate with your process in getting a job that you finally enjoy/like/aspired for. So well done, I know it's not easy.

A good friend of mine, who is dissident and left-leaning in nature (and working class, if that’s important), refused to go down to the Occupy camp at St Paul’s because it was “populated entirely by middle class fuck-wits who’ve been happy to benefit from capitalism up til now.”

I couldn’t help thinking that with that attitude he would be, for the rest of his life, a movement of one.

The left has always been fractious and difficult to unite but, as much as my friend perhaps wishes it were the case, none of us operates or lives in a vacuum and affecting political change requires that we work with other people – people that we might sometimes disagree with and even dislike.

As far as voting with your pocket goes, it’s a strategy doomed to failure. As Laurie points out, making sure you purchase only ethically sourced products is next to impossible - but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try.

Simply by paying taxes, I have contributed, across my lifetime, to an abundance of morally questionable enterprises (such as several illegal wars), but that hasn’t stopped me from refusing to purchase products from McDonald’s, Burger King, Starbuck’s, The Gap, Primark, etc. for several years. Logic tells me that I’m not even making a dimple of a dent in these company’s profits, but I still feel better for trying.

**meant to say changing it from within and from outside (not without!)**

Laurie raises a fair point, because a lot of the things that are wrong with the world & with capitalism won't be changed by grassroots "being the change they wish to see in the world" - the defence industry, energy industry, stock markets & big pharma will continue regardless of what we personally buy or boycott. Doesn't mean we shouldn't yell & scream about it though.

Capitalism doesn't make coffee, it charges more than £2 for it and puts it in branded plastic container! In short, it makes it worse!

Disgusting article that shows how out of touch with real working class people she is. I'm glad I cancelled my NS subscription if its giving money to bourgeois idiots like LP.

what a bunch of cowardly little bullys you lot are picking on poor little laurie,,why are you all so bitter and twisted..are you getting any sex??....its ok having a opinion, but this is just downright nastyness,,very cowardly indeed...yes your gutless cowards and vagabonds

What I'd really want to know is how Laurie Penny got this job. Did she apply with a CV and a publication portfolio, competing with hundreds of equally or more talented applicants? Or was she "discovered" after her online publication record became too extensive, professional and just plain good to be left outside the New Statesman stable? Or perhaps she had a relative or a relative's friend who helped her in?

In a country where upward social mobility is almost null for those whose parents aren't already rich, it is a real shame that the published liberal voices are only those of privileged kids whose idea of financial hardship is not affording the new MacBook Air.

A little bit of honesty and transparency would do her career and the New Statesman good (not that she needs it; her talent and hard work *alone* has awarded her already a mainstream book contract).

Utter drivel. Starbucks coffee is not exactly a vital service which you cant avoid. If you want to help the poor you could CHOOSE to go down the pub instead or any one of hundreds of small independent establishments or shops. But then you wouldn't want to do that as pubs are full of ordinary people. Starbucks coffee is not cheap or mediocre ...it is a luxury product...?

True dat Buckskins, true dat, i applaud your indelicacy :-)

I run a caf/gallery type place, social enterprise, i'm trying to source my beans direct from growers but even then i don't know how to gauranttee the pickers get a good wage. If anyone knows anything about how to do this please direct me.. Thanks.

Ian

Thanks, I know about that already, it's not good enough. At the moment i get stuff from local legendary hardcore organic fair trade shop Unicorn, no point in going any further than that unless i can do it properly and buy direct from farmer, but only if it's one i know is paying his pickers well enough. I know of other caffs/places that do this but can't find the right peoples to talk to..

The notion that coffee, iPhones and turtle neck sweaters are products of capitalism are ill informed. If you honestly believe that human beings can only produce and develop goods and services when they are subjected to the whip of capitalist exploitation, you have little faith in mankind.
The vast majority of discoveries, medical advancements and inventions were made in non profit environments such as universities and government institutes. Private capital simply moves in to make a profit from it's replication and distribution. 
I detest capitalism and will be glad to see it removed from the earth and replaced with democratic workers control, but while it's still the dominant order, we still have to work within it so we can buy our food clothing and electricity from it.
The point that seems to be overlooked is most people can't afford to buy from Starbucks let alone have an iPhone! 

Dave, your to be commended. The problem with dealing direct with small single farm producers is that what do you as a business do with fluctuating production? Most of the "evils" of modern trade where set up to iron out the problems of surplus and scarcity. Look at the markets they now drive... I wish you luck in your endeavours.

What with George Eaton and now articles like this, the NS is going to have to stagger on without me for a while. It's not interesting to read middle of the road, especially if it's teenage-type 'searching', in these days of food parcel distribution, thousands of deaths predicted this winter due to poverty, etc., etc...

"Short answer: I did internships, hustled, worked my arse off for three years, lived on frozen pizza, sent my CV and portfolio everywhere, was supported a little by my parents although still had to run other jobs, was involved in activism, feminist organising and all sorts of other things that interest me, did an NCTJ qualification, wrote hundreds of blog posts and articles, and eventually got this job."

Couple of points..

...it was "tins of cold beans" last time...how did you heat the pizza or did you eat it frozen?...and if you did heat it, why didn't you heat the beans?

you know what peter mckenna etc..young laurie must be siting down with a glass of red wine laughing her head off at all you saddos and gorks who have nothing better to do that bellyache and moan like big girls blouses blog after blog afer blog...it is just so funny reading some of these comments in here by the bozo brain laurie haters,,haaaaaaa,haaaaaaaaaaa,haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
And you try and tell the young people of today that ..... they won't believe you.
ALL:
They won't!

Ian - you're probably right and genuine thanks, i need all the luck i can get. Can i actually 'get' luck by having it wished me? Presumably i need some sort of implement to scoop it out of the ether.

Spud - Laurie Penny is Laurie Penny, and as honest as she is when she writes i'll bet none of us really know her..
and Harriet Harman and Polly Toynbee do not 'make sense'!

Daniele

"The "people" themselves became the tyrants and any one with an aristocratic or middle class background,no matter what their ideology was, had to be eliminated as they couldn't possibly be trusted or genuine."

The French revolution was a bourgeois revolution...that it 'ate itself' is due to the incontrovertible fact that bourgeois liberals couldn't run a fuckin bath. They're 'place' is deliberating on the sidelines, getting 'concerned' about things, radical posturing and generally missing the the point. That's why they dominate the media, academia and the public sector.

All they're 'good' for is writing heartfelt op-eds about brown women in far off places suffering religious and cultural oppression which, luckily, turns out to be a consequence of Western patriarchal capitalist hegemony. Meanwhile, their brown female cleaner-cum-au pair is neglecting her own kids, getting up at half-five to catch 3 buses in order to get the employers kids their organic breakfasts before they're whisked away to a private school. After that there's only 8 more hours of solid drudgery on less than minimum wage before she takes the long journey home, hopefully just in time to put her own kids to bed.

I wonder how she'd feel if she ever found a copy of the Observer colour supplement on the bus and turned to see her boss musing "sometimes my friends wonder how I manage to do it..."

People who want to write about the real world should try living in it. Why is the media populated with half-arsed imposters who are putting on a fuckin act? And why do you consider asking the question to be the moral equivalent of mass murder?

If you don't, and the crux of your argument is really "leave Laurie alone, I think she's lovely" then say so...the French revolution doesn't come into it.