@broderick; don't be put off by stuart. Me and Buckskins know what you are talking about and fully support what you say. We are 100% fully behind you mate. Keep going, keep saying what you need to say,because to me you're talking sense. stuart is shit scared of me, are you little boy? stuart, 32 year old unemployed builders labourer knows he doesn't stand a chance against me. broderick, don't worry about people like chip on the shoulder stuart in Hackney or even inexperienced Laurie. They are nothing in comparison to me and Buckskins. We are the people who are supporting you. You say what you what you to say. No fear.

@Buckskins: do you fancy a swop? Sheep for deer? This butcher was throwing away the liver and hearts of the sheep (plus other bits) he was butchering. I'm going to help him in the future and salvage the offal, make pate and even black puddings with the blood.

You're spot on when you say so many people want the government to help them/give them money to do things. They don't regard taxation as a form of theft.

It's nice to see a few of the more offensive posts getting deleted. The NS is far too supine with these trolls.

PhilDuval, just a bit about the banks, if Gordon Brown hadn't pressured Lloyds to get involved with the Scottish Bank,then Lloyds were OK. But that is history unfortunately, Brown has a histoty of underperforming.
The most dangerous international problem, and at the long term root cause of most misery is World Overpopulation, and it gets worse, there are an extra one and a half million humans to be fed EVERY WEEK!
Our small earth can never keep up, food, water, or rare earth minerals.
Egypt does what the US says because the US supplies 75% of the food it needs, and since 1960 the population has quadroupled. Pakistan has a population with over 50% under 18!
I too am a graduate---Joint Hons Econ/Agricultural Economics, Nottingham, my brother is a farmer, I do know about food, and at times the world lives on a knife edge.In 2003 the world had only 30 days of grains in store.That year Australia was a net wheat importer.
Surprisingly the UK 2010 WHEAT figure has just come out at 17.4 million tonnes. Little UK grows slightly more grains than Australia or Canada, we are all almost equal at 25 million tonnes depending on the weather. Like it or not, the US prairies produce over 200 million tonnes per year without which most of the middle east would starve. I suggest you spend some political time sreading the word at Westminster! These are facts not political points.

@Nick: I think perhaps you've read too much in to what you see as thinly veiled words hiding an agenda of harm!
I too am polite most of the time but to be honest I find the odd crude remark funnier than constant polite conversation. In fact I enjoy it when people really have a go at me especially when they insult me. It makes me laugh.

@broderick: take no notice of stuart and listen to Mr. Divine. He is the person who you should be listening to. I don't always agree with what he says but stuart is afraid of him as are many bloggers (including me and Laurie Penny). If Mr. Divine says you have something worthwhile to say then you have. Mr. Divine says he is a prophet. I don't know about prophets but i tell you I pay attention to him more than anyone else on the blogsphere: he's got balls and a half.

Well, you will be disappointed in my posts then Mr D, because I won't stoop to crude remarks. I read some threads on here and when I see the crude stuff creeping in, I can't help but feel it lets down our collective views on what are meant to be quite important politically based affairs. I suppose the thinly veiled words come from doing battle before Judges and so forth, you can hardly call them what you would like to at times! Anyway, glad you take it all in good humour.

Check out Simon Tormey, he's the Politics professor of Sydney University. I live in the same house and did the same Russian Studies/ Politics course at the hot bed of Marxist Politics at Swansea in the early 80s. He has wrote numerous books. He's shit scared of me.

@Mr.D

"Phil perhaps you should consider whether a slight blip in the relentless growth of wealth in the past 200 years should be considered a 'crisis'"

That was really a couple of first class posts, and the above nailed it.
Good work D.

@Stuart

Thanks for that explanation. An entrepreneur like yourself should get that moxie in gear. Many a fat portfolio has started with $100.

Cheers Bud.

Buckskins,

I don't believe a word you say, you say you and your wife both have full time jobs and still find time to work our ranch, then ask do we have hired help? of course, but that doesn't stop us getting off our butts and pitching in. and yet and yet on the 6th October for example you are posting comments at 02.05, 20.18, 20.49 and 23.26.

I believe you to be some spoiled brat hunched over your computer trying to offend as many people as you can!

Mornin Mr. D. I could tell you how many acres we have but I will not. I thought we had a fair size ranch until you started on about Australian farms and ranches. I thought The Aussie Govt. broke up those huge Aussie farms decades ago?

We run about one unit per acre. A unit being a cow and calf. Our cattle are Beefmasters. We do have about a half dozen pet cows that have worked their way into our hearts. We have Boer goats to keep the brush in check and Anatolian Shepherd dogs that will protect them with their very lives. Most of the work is done with ATV's but we do have horses for work and pleasure. Sometimes an ATV will just not cut it.

We have Java green peacocks, don’t ask me how many chickens (Japanese silkies.) An Aviary with Amazon parrots that don’t know how to shut up. I did have a pet Javelina and Bobcat but they have passed. Our beef is mostly grass fed except in winter when we have to feed them hay which we grow ourselves or pellets that we get from the feed store. We get 2 crops of things like tomatoes, peppers, and of course a green (hot) house is not required. We have Orange and Peach trees, not to mention Mesquite whick makes the worlds best BBQ. After November we can plant really good Rye grass but it must be seeded each year. The never fail crop around here is various forms of Sorghum.

We have good sweet water at 35ft and that is a real blessing in Texas. I am going on a bit but I guess you get the picture. Oh yeah, we hang our beef gutted with the hide off and to cut and wrap it can take up to 2 days, (hand tools)and several cases of beer. We have 6 full time staff including the housekeeper/cook. We can have up to a dozen or so in the spring when culling the herd and making steers out of the calves, ear tagging and shots.

Our wildlife is just that. Scorpions, Rattle snakes, Cotton mouth snakes and a boat load of others that are said to be non toxic. They are all poisonous to me. Coyotes abound, as do Bobcats, Deer and Feral pigs/Russian Boer a plenty. We have Quail, Turkey, and Dove but we do not permit or hunt our birds. And Nick, you best get to work and quit posting during work hours. This is your last warning mister.

Dear Mr Divine,

Yes the lobotomy has worked well, I get the feeling your are finally waking up to the Wally from Waco!

David Vinter & Mr Divine

Davind I was questionning your assertion that:

'If only 13% of UK taxpayers pay hi rate tax, [then] a very large number of the remaining 87% must vote Tory.'

A very large number? No, that is patently false. And to quote Mr Divine I am not wanking with statistics. David Vinter in talking about the tax paying population must by definition also be talking about the total electorate. If the Tories only won 23% of the total electoral vote and 13% of those voters are high tax payers (your claim) then only 10% of the remaining tax paying public can have voted Tory. I cannot understand why you don't see that and how you can say 'a very large number of the remaining 87% must vote Tory.' Obviously they didn't.

You basically suggested that the Tories have more popular support than they do. In your next post you changed tack slightly and point out that this coalition is in power because 'The Liberals CHOSE to...' support the Tories. It is correct that Nick Clegg chose to support the Tories but that is not true of all Lib Dem activists and it is certainly not true of millions of Lib Dem voters who voted for a party which has consistently placed itself to the LEFT of New Labour during the last 13 years. HENCE the nerves amongst the Lib Dems about how they will fair at the next round of by-elections. HENCE their fear that their vote will collapse altogether at the next General Election and they will be subsumed into the Conservative party.

THAT is why millions of people don't vote any more - because they vote for a party based on one set of promises and they get given something else.

'If Brown had done a couple of years working say on a building site after leaving his not too successful university career, then he would have met , and worked with ordinary workers, and may well have still been PM.'

Now here I agree with you, politicians are so far out of touch with ordinary voters it is incredible. Kier Hardie, the first Independent Labour MP, began his working life in a mine aged 10. Denis Healey was the Military Landing Officer for the Anzio landings in WW2. Could you imagine Cameron, Clegg and Milliband coming from those backgrounds?

*That is WHAT Conservatism ultimately is...

Luddite

'Pay for the private sector worker dramatically decreased under Labour. The introduction of the minimum wage dragged millions down the pay scale, labour's open door immigration policy forced wages down even further. This is the reality for millions. The public sector was well insulated, and now the unions protest. This is your fight, don't count on the workers. It's your f@@king government that's created this mess.'

I agree wholeheartedly with the first three sentences and again THAT is why New Labour was not of the Left, it was NOT socialist and all the name calling by the reactionaries on here will not change that. New Labour sold out to the business class in order to stay in power. But what do you think the Tories will do for private sector workers? Nothing because the Tories are only interested in the Capital class - the private sector OWNERS. And was it ever thus. That is why Conservatism ultimately is - the centuries old belief in hierarchy. They may say they value hard working people who save etc but they would strip your pension fund dry if the 'market' required it.

Thus I cannot agree with the sentiment behind the three remaining sentences. We must all stand together for fair wages and good conditions for all workers. Anything else is a race to the bottom. Anything else will lead to a more divided society - which I think was where this article began...

Hi Benedict, I'm guessing you're a Philosophy major ?

I see the blog Police have arrived and are filing their evidence on serious allegations of unlawfully posting in what is perceived to be work time. I've had that one levelled at me; it's astounding how some forget to take account of holidays, time differences, with no idea of our individual lives and working patterns. Why don't they just mind their own business?

Finally, Mr Divine asked what I would do. I don't proclaim to possess all the answers but I would begin with:

Nationalising all the banks and converting them into Sovereign Wealth funds at the international level to work for the benefit of the nation as opposed to the ultra rich and at the domestic level use them to create credit unions which support businesses and communities.

As for all the other necessary changes our society needs I am a great fan of the proposals put forward by the New Economics Foundation and the Equality Trust. Niether body is in thrall to the old statist solutions of the left and the later organisation was created by two epidemiologists.

Please consider their ideas:

http://www.neweconomics.org/sites/neweconomics.org/files/Great_Transitio...

http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/why/evidence

FINALLY FINALLY I would just like to say that is really quite tragic that we are all arguing when our hopes and interests are basically the same.

Tha lawd willin an tha creek don rhase.

Happy Trails.

My posts are not showing up on Laurie's latest article. I wonder if I'm banned??

there is no divide betreen class in society,there is no class divide betreen the rich and poor,total socalist hogwash and thank god you lot are out of power hopefully forever.great speech by david today,those who do the right thing in the big society will be rewarded,those who dont will be left behind in a chasm of misery despair,the future is out there.grasp it and make this country great again after 15 years of waste and socalist dogma.support the coaltion goverment,this is your time.make your country proud again.

Hiya Stuart, you may actually be surprised at just how busy some of the royals are. What they do is a load of crap, but hey, y’aal are paying for it. Some of them justify taking from the workers by saying they are tourist attractions. That’s nonsense I would say. Tourists do come to watch the changing of the guard and all that good stuff, but to see the royals? I doubt it. A couple of those princes are spending time in uniform and in combat zones. So they can’t all be wasters. Their wealth came from you folks. And they ain’t shy about spending it.

Cheers Bud.

The divisions in our society are far more numerous and deep rooted than the writer suggest.Since adherence to Christianity disappeared there has been nothing to replace it, except greed and selfishness.

When you add to that the irresponsible and short sighted immigration policies of successive governments over the past forty or fifty years, and the death of real politics, you have millions of people shouting out in the wilderness for someone to heal 'broken Britain', which was what Cameron kept banging on about in the last election campaign.

Which brings us back to the original article really, because what else is this awful government if it is not a class based clique attempting to stick it to the working classes?

Thanks Phil. I'll read your proposals, think about them, and get back to you. It's good that solutions are at the forefront of the debate. Glad I woke you up.