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"Both events involved people wanting free things, the middle class 'free university education', the 'working class' wanting free TVs, bottles of water and designer dresses."

That's a mad comparison. The people objecting to the raising of tuition fees were doing so on behalf of the people who could least afford it. Why would they be objecting to the withdrawal of the EMA too, if they wer just on a mission to protect personal class interests? Any middle class students who supposedly made up the majority of the protesters wouldn't be personally affected by the proposed changes, which wouldn't come into effect for years. It was people protesting against changes that would affect other individuals negatively. Those who were genuinely protesting on their own behalf would've been young kids, and ones who depended on EMA to stay on at college.

Calling what happened back in November/December 'riots' at all is misguided, just going along with labels slapped on by the media - Flat Earth News. Bad, provocative policing of a political protest, and a few lairy teenagers and people on ketamine.

whitrow/entranger/callum BANG ON. Totally agree. Flashbuck - why don't you go and read The Specator and as for john cronin - go **** yourself.

Glad to see people listen to us while burning copies of Socialist Worker.Never liked that paper.Though if you've ever been to one of our shows you'd know there's very little "huddling" .

Asian Dub Foundation,

Never had the pleasure.

Much too Blair Right for my own good.

Perhaps the rioters were regular viewers of Question Time and Newsnight and thought "I'll model myself on that geezer Starkey he doesnt care about anyone else's sensitivities,why should I?" about as likely as blaming the students. This is a fantasy island full of noises that give us fright and please not.

Both events involved people wanting free things, the middle class 'free university education', the 'working class' wanting free TVs, bottles of water and designer dresses. Both involved unprovoked violence by members of the groups.

Why was the UnCutUk and student protests kettled. Because they broke the law and some of them started marching towards the Houses of parliament, and some started violence. Should the Police just allowed people to march where they want? Of course not, certainly not in Central London because of risks to National Security.

Jonnie Marbles did not assault an 80-year old pensioner.

But hey, Dan Hodges, don't let the truth get in your way!

Didn't like the premise. But well-argued and convincing. But, the rioters didn't seem to be the type to look up at students and trade union types and want to copy them, so it's a valiant effort but doesn't work for me.

A more likely explanation I would argue is that the two are definitely related but in a sides of a coin way. And logically that would mean that they are both arising from more or less the same causes. Which were much better proposed in last year's riots.

Asian Dub Foundation,

"you believed too much of what your fellow journalists wrote about us"

I thought most of what my fellow journalists wrote about you was positive.

And what's wrong with George?

You not believing what people write about him are you?

How daft! Those not of the elite don't live in such different worlds. School children rub shoulders with FE students deprived of EMA - both will pay high tuition fees - and the students at university who protested didn't want to see the drawbridge pulled up. There is a common conversation and within this differing views on protests and riots. This article is shallow.

Danielle: I think Dan was implying that the student 'riots' gave other people the idea. The summer riots were like copy cats riots of the students' with more brutality. The same principles apply to both ... that is, public disorder is OK. One group has shown the way for another group. Maybe their motivations are different but their actions are the same if somewhat in magnitude.

@ Dan: i suspect that that Tories will benefit from the student and the summer riots as they'll be like Thatcher's Falklands. Maybe the time out of office will give Labour time to work on their policies. My advice is to focus on ecology; renewable energy, community housing and quality food. They are all linked as the Japanese nuclear leaks have revealed. Go back to the basics of what people need; clean food and water, good housing and cheap renewable energy. Forget about growth, concentrate on value and quality.

As I read your article, I often found myself nodding in agreement until I got to the line about Ed Miliband being right.

That's when I realised you were taking the p1$$ - nice one :-)

Ona - University is even easier to go to than it was before. Do you live on the same planet as Laurie Penny or something?

This is Orwellian: even my oldest comments have been deleted

Peter,

Nope.

P.S. I don't whether the various student protests "influenced " the riots; rioting is not new ! However you begin to make a wider point about class attitudes which is very powerful . As our economic structure has come to approximate that of the U.S. ,particularly with the growth of a so-called "underclass" since the Thatcher years , a culture of hatred of those at the bottom of the pile has emerged . As someone who until recently lived on a "sink" estate for
many years I have been horrified at the sight of supposedly liberal/left people talking of "chavs" , "Asboland" , along with cruel (but admittedly funny) comedy like "Little Britain" .For "Chavs" read- "Trailer Park Trash" . The people I lived with bore little resemblance to the undifferentiated mass implied by these stereotypes .Though what they did have in common
is often dreadful living conditions ( I witnessed the Camberwell fire) and an electoral insignificance, being piled up in safe Labour seats as they are.God forbid that a small portion of their youth decide to act on the desire for instant gratification that underlies our society from top to bottom! What your article points out very well is the difference in response to disorder depending on the perceived class of people taking part.

What I did notice is that the middle class rioters of the winter were tucked up watching the tele when the big boys were burning and a lootin. One notable blogger got so frightened that instead of venturing out onto the street she stayed with her friends.

"80 year-old pensioner"

Look up the world tautology, Dan.

Your article is an embarrassment but I do have one question: what's your evidence that every single person who protested against student fees/EMA was "middle class"? I was on those protests, and one of the things that struck me and everyone I was with was that many of the protesters were, in fact, BME school and colleges students from the inner cities to whom the prospect of losing EMA was unacceptable. It's interesting though: the "middle class" students riot and the poor from the inner cities riot within space of 6 months - who is going to be left defending bourgeois civilization from the savages in five years time, apart from you and Peter Hitchens?

ADF,

I actually think the problem is less demonisation of the working class and more political apathy.

The attitude I encountered in the Labour party wasn't one of hostility just basic indifference; "they haven't got anywhere to go, so let's concentrate on the middle class".

I think what we need is a proper process of engagement with the working/underclass.

The problem is many well meaning middle-class lefties are themselves fearful of such a process because deep down they don't like the idea of what they'll find.

Well in this case demonisation and indifference are two sides of the same coin. Ignore "them" because they're electorally insignificant ,but also because we're frightened of "them" as well .See Dan , we agree!You should feel able to buy our new album "A History of Now" !Can easily accommodate listeners of the "Blair Right" ! Maybe even a few "Red Tories" too! Step right up!

Not sure I follow your logic on this one Hal.

The people have had enough. It is simple, share the wealth or reap the rewards it would appear, in the form of violence. Those who should be seen but not heard, the "poor", are fed up of having no voice and being forever persecuted for the privelege. The wealthy need to share the wealth.

@Pi**sed off

"The wealthy need to share the wealth"

What does this mean in practice? Are the wealthy simply those with more than you've got?

What is your opinion, say, of "Pimlico Plumbers" cool number plates aside the founder, a self-confessed illiterate , seems to have got off his 'arris worked hard in a service industry and created what we see today. Is his wealth now for the taking, de facto, he shouldn't have that much? If that were the case would we expect that to inspire others to create "Edgware Electricians" or whatever?

Are you the poorest person in the world? Or should your wealth be redistributed at the same time/same rate as the wealthy?

Just asking