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249 comments from readers

Sol
22 October 2007 at 13:52

Brian, you make no mention of the 1810 Turkish Cypriots killed during the period 1963 - 1974, what is your opinion on the words of Niko Samson (the second and short lived president of Cyprus) who stated that is Turkey ha not stopped him he not only would have declared union with Greece, but would have "annihilated the Turkish Cypriots’."

Perhaps then the invasion was also a liberation (that is not to defend the actions of the Turkish military during that period).

It may interest you to know that over 100 Muslim religious buildings were destroyed in Cyprus, in 1963 along over 20,000 Turkish Cypriots were foced from their homes by the "plucky" Greek Cypriot militias.

Oh and the growth rate in northern Cyprus, a truly Aisiatic 12%. The Med Tiger so to speak...

Taner Alevok
22 October 2007 at 13:58

As a Turkish Cypriot I would never dream of living in the Republic of Cyprus as it is.

We've been quarreling with the Greek Cypriots for many, many years and we feel there has been some serious injustices against us.

The Greek Cypriot government has spent the past 40 years denying what many of us have lived through and witnessed, all while trying to promote the supposed unification of our country. The Turkish Cypriots know this is just a smoke screen and a means to manipulate public opinion in their favour. We know the ways in which the Greek government work well enough to know that they are not after peace, they are only after getting back what they lost to serious irresponsibility and greed.

We do not trust their government one iota. Consindering the animosity between us, we will never agree to becoming a mere minority in our homeland. If there wasn't so much hostility then maybe, but as it stands, after 40 years of denials and political wars we will not accept anything less than an equal status in Cyprus. After our turbulant history we need this guarantee.

When it was us being ethnically cleansed from our villages the whole world sat watching. When our people were being dug up from mass graves, the Greek Cypriot regime was disgracefully claiming the bodies were those of Greek Cypriots. Now they are so ignorant that they call our tragic experiences "lies" and counter them with UN documents expecting us to give in to their demands. We're used to double standards by now, but in return, people shouldn't expect us to play by the book. The international community should stop insulting our intelligence.

The destruction and looting of Churches is a disgusting crime, those practicing such activities should be locked up without a shadow of doubt. What happened to the Greek Cypriots is also tragic. We are very sorry for their suffering and we do not wish for them to be deprived of their lands forever, however, with their governments attitude and the ways in which they view the Turkish Cypriots, it makes it very hard to reconcile and settle the dispute.

As for Northern Cyprus. As long as the Greek Cypriot government continue their life long aim of reducing the Turkish Cypriot community to nothing but a minority ("a result of invasion" as they call us) the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus will stay. We are not happy with some of the situations here either, but anything is better than giving in to the Greek Cypriot demands, and no amount of money, prosperity, EU promises, (or a free holiday in the case of Mr Coleman) will convince us otherwise.

We will never give up our homeland.

Either start negotioating or move on with your lives, either way stop moaning because the Turkish Cypriots have long stopped listening. Goodbye.

Fevz_Gooner
22 October 2007 at 14:21

Brian Coleman's comments are so unashamedly biased it beggars belief. I agree with Taner and Sol. It is highly irresponsible to highlight the Cyprus problem in a manner that is not balanced - I can't say that I expect anything less from BC - he backed London's unlawful ban on the Turkish Cypriot Tourism advertising on London's buses. People forget the ethnic cleansing that went on from 1963 to 1974. Over 1800 Turkish Cypriots perished in this inter-ethnic conflict. Nobody mentiones this - from a proportionate point of view more Turkish Cypriot's died than Greek Cypriots, but I guess this is immaterial. Of course the state of affairs in Northern Cyprus is very sad but us Turkish Cypriots continue to be ignored - anything we try to do with the international communities is constantly attacked by the RoC government - they are intent on allowing the ostracisation of Turkish Cypriot's to continue - we voted for the Annan plan in 2004 and still there is no change (what price voting or peace/unification??) - I am afraid my view is that the current RoC lot will never see us as an equal - have you heard of 'Love Cyprus, Hate Racism'? This is a great initiative by human rights group Embargoed! There are groups who are trying to help and obviously a lot of work is still to be done, if we are to go by Coleman's anti-Turkish comments. I pray one day the Cyprus solution will be remedied but more goodwill needs to be shown by RoC government.

Cyprushot
22 October 2007 at 14:28

Why just focus on the Turkish Cypriot deaths committed in the 1960s?

Why not mention the deaths of Turkish Cypriots by Turks themselves?

And why just focus on the 1960s?

The Ottomans and Turks have killed thousands of Cyprus' Christian inhabitants.

When one looks at the history of Cyprus, it is important to see events as part of a continous cycle of history. Turkey's presence in Cyprus is one of occupation, something Turkey's own politicians and army generals have admitted many times ago. For example Denktash, once upon a time leader of the Turkish Cypriot community stated:

Naturally Turkey has strategic interests in Cyprus. It is fortunate that the Turkish Cypriot community exists here. Even if the Turkish Cypriot community did not exist, Turkey would not have left Cyprus to Greece."

Turkish occupation representative Rauf Denktash, 23 July 1985

As for the point about Turkish Cypriots living in the Republic of Cyprus, many thousands do and enjow the prosperity of being within a recognised state and also part of the EU (to be a member a country must respect international law).

Sometimes, the pride of nationalism must be put aside when dealing with a nations religious and culturage heritage.

Instead of some Turkish Cypriots on relying on the past (attrocities were committed by both sides, and even the British), maybe they can help ensure that the 500 or so churches that have been desecrated in the north be restored.

Emina
22 October 2007 at 14:29

Mr Coleman i am glad you are clear about the fact that your trip to Cyprus was funded by your host perhaps you should also be clearer about the fact that the right wing Greek Brotherhood contributes to the coffers of your local Conservative Party. I also find it quite strange that you refer to Cyprus as a modern EU country as a second generation Cypriot i find it a long stretch of the imagination to describe Cyprus as anything other than a slightly more modern but non the less culturally middle eastern state. I feel that comment such as your are insulting to say the least and contribute to the maintanance of the status quo in the so called Cyprus Problem. But its about time the Brits owned up to their role which is more than buying up properties they have no legal right to but the fact that Britains disastrous divide and rule policy prior to independence bringing about the current situation and leading to the deaths of thousands of Greek and Turkish Cypriot. Perhaps your funders should invest in some literature to help you in getting your facts straight Mr Coleman.

Sol
22 October 2007 at 14:42

Cyprushot

The history on both sides is tragic, You say there are 500 Churches which have been deserctated in the North, I would respectfully point out the destruction and paving over with a car park of the Grand Mosque in Phahos. At least the Churches are still there as a witness to the people who built them.

Either way it is pointless argueing about who did what to who.

Looking to the future, either the two communities build trust and move closer together, or not and they go for a two state solution. The status quo is untenible and a blight on the consciense of those involved.

Time is running out for reuniifcation, and while there are leaders who use the other side to scare their own voters for political gain it seems less lightly.

Mr Colman, rather than dismiss the Turks, (rather like David Lloyd George did), perhaps you should embrace them. For shutting Turkey out of Europe, slaming the Turkish Cypriots for the non reunification of Cyprus (after they voted for reunification under the Annan plan) hardly makes it a better world.

Sol
22 October 2007 at 15:46

On December 28, 1963 the Daily Express reported:

‘We went tonight into the sealed off Turkish Cypriot

Quarter of Nicosia in which 200 to 300 people had

been slaughtered in the last five days. We were the first

Western reporters there and we have seen sights too

frightful to be described in print. Horror so extreme

that the people seemed stunned beyond tears.’ Many

Turkish Cypriots escaped to Turkey, and the remainder

withdrew into defended enclaves and could no

longer participate in the government of Cyprus.

Instead of taking action against the Greek Cypriots,

the British, the Americans and the UN treated them

as ‘the Government of Cyprus,’ and still do to this

day. Some of the people responsible are still in senior

positions in Cyprus but have never been tried for their

crimes. The UN put an observer force into Cyprus but

they were brushed aside by the Greek Cypriots in 1974

when they tried again to impose a final solution on the

Turkish Cypriots. Sir Alec Douglas Home said in his

memoirs: ‘If the Greek Cypriot leadership could not

treat the Turkish Cypriots as human beings they were

inviting the invasion and partition of the island.’

The leader of the 1974 coup, Nicos Sampson, told

Eleftherotipia newspaper that ‘had Turkey not intervened

I would not only have proclaimed ENOSIS — I

would have annihilated the Turkish Cypriots’. The UK

and the US did nothing to save the Turkish Cypriots,

but fortunately for them Turkey did intervene, and

established a safe haven in the north where the Turkish

Cypriots now live.

Turkey’s action has had a high diplomatic cost to

itself, and the UK should make it clear that Turkey

should not be penalised in its relations with the EU, or

at the UN, for the action it had to take in 1974. The

Turkish Cypriots proclaimed their own state in 1983 but the British and Americans persuaded the world

not to recognise it.

If Britain’s new Prime Minister believes in the

moral values which he espouses, he should start

acting with honesty and decency toward the Turkish

Cypriots.

In Europe, Gordon Brown should press for the

full inclusion of Turkish Cypriot universities in the

Bologna process and for the right of Turkish Cypriot

MPs to speak in the European Parliament whenever

Cyprus is considered. At the UN he should call

for all countries to trade normally with northern

Cyprus. In Britain he should not allow the ‘Cyprus

High Commission’ to interfere in contractual relations

between exhibition organisers in the UK and Turkish

Cypriots who wish to organise or participate in exhibitions.

He should also make it clear to the Greek

Cypriots that he does not approve of their efforts to

use the UK courts to settle property disputes which

should have been settled through the Annan Plan or

through the compensation commission which the

Turkish Cypriots have established.

This would be the policy most likely to bring

the parties in Cyprus to serious negotiations. The

Turkish Cypriots still prefer settlement to permanent

separation, but the Greek Cypriot leaders need to be

convinced that the world will not tolerate restrictions

on the Turkish Cypriots any longer.

by Michael Stephen Former Conservative MP

alexander
22 October 2007 at 17:43

An excellent piece by Brian Coleman.

The Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974 was a horrendous, barbaric act of ethnic cleansing, involving massacre, rape and the forcible expulsion of 200,000 Greeks from the north of the island. The shameful destruction of Cyprus’s artistic and cultural heritage which Brian refers to – the assault on anything which reminds the Turkish occupation regime of the island’s Greek and Christian heritage – is part of this process of ethnic cleansing.

It is incomprehensible to me that a country like Turkey is even being considered for EU membership; that it is, shows how morally bankrupt Europe has become.

As for the Turkish Cypriot minority (15% of the Cyprus population), it is a pity that they allowed themselves to be seduced by ultranationalist Turkish terrorists in the 1960s who were dedicated to partitioning Cyprus and prevented Turkish Cypriots from playing their full part in the Republic of Cyprus alongside Greek Cypriots.

Thank you, Brian, for doing such sterling work supporting your constituents and justice for Cyprus.

k Black
22 October 2007 at 20:11

Turkey cannot continue to occupy a country that is an EU state and then hope the rest of the EU members let them in to the EU.with no strings attatched!

Let us not be under any illusion.Turkey invaded another country on the pretext of protecting the Turkish Cypriots. Unfortunatly for the Turkish Cypriots, there has been a huge influx of Turkish settlers in northern Cyprus,over 100,000, which has lead to the Turkish Cypriots becoming a minority ethnic community in the north.So much for protecting them! Who is going to protect the Turkish Cypriots from the Turks!

Greek and Turkish Cypriots can be reunfied , if there is goodwill on both sides.The Annan plan ofcourse was approved by the Turkish Cypriots because it was so biased towards them, and the Greek Cypriots felt that it was not a viable workable solution.

Lets now look to the future and not hop on the Turkish propaganda machine which at the moment is pushing towards permanent partition and which is actually ignoring the needs of both sets of Cypriots, who can live together if the past is left behind. Cyprus is to small to be cut in two!

Larry
22 October 2007 at 20:39

With regards the number of settlers in Cyprus, serious academic reseaarch by the International Peace Research Center in Oslo (as well as finding of a House of Commons report) put that figure at no more than 35,000.

It should be noted the number of Greek and aprticulary the number of former Greek soldiers who have "settled" in the Southern part. (Greek Soldiers who have been stationed in Cyprus have a right to residency).

To deny the deaths of so many Turkish Cypriots and the ethnic cleansing which went with it, is very similar to BC take on Turkey denying the Armenian Genocide. Or is Christians murdering Muslims more acceptable than the other way round.

Taner Alevok
22 October 2007 at 23:18

Our people are living proof of what went on in Cyprus.

The manipulation coming from the Greeks is shocking. It beggars belief that these people actually think they will end up convincing us that the awful times we lived through were just figments of our imagination.

For the Greek Cypriots the Cyprus problem started in 1974. You will not find any of them bringing up the events of the 11 years prior to Turkeys arrival. This is understandable, since for 11 whole years, the Turkish Cypriots were made to feel less than foreigners in their own country. We were treated like animals and the Greek regimes criminal actions against us knew no bounds.

According to the Greeks, the Cyprus Problem is one of occupation. This is a very naive and irresponsible viewpoint. How can that be the only problem when Turkish Cypriots have the chance to move to the Republic (some of whom even have the chance to reclaim their homes back), yet the vast majority of them choose not to.

This is not just about occupation, for us it's more about principle.

What is this so called "good will" people are talking about? Where? When? There is no such thing between the two communities.

Their government is still trying to get the Turkish Cypriots to accept Makarios' deplorable proposals, in the vain hope of reducing our community to a minority and leaving our future in the hands of the same people that persecuted us for years. Those proposals are the reason we ended up in this mess, yet the Greeks are still trying to force us to accept the unacceptable.

There will never be a solution for the simple fact that it's the Greek Cypriots we are dealing with. Their politicians are not capable of finding a solution. They are complete amateurs. They have rejected so many plans in the past, some of which they'd probably die to bring back today.

We've given up waiting for these people to come to their senses. We would rather put up with the current situation and improve our own state no matter what it's faults, than take a leap of faith, putting our lives in the hands of people who are obviously not capable of looking after us.

Terry
23 October 2007 at 01:00

This article has convinced me not to vote for conservatives in the next general elections. It's nothing more than Greek propaganda drivel!

John Kaponi
23 October 2007 at 02:19

At last a politician with conviction who has the guts to tell the world the truth. Turkey must wise up recognise its wrongs and accept that the military option will always fail. Without a total withdrawal from Cyprus and the recognition of the Armenian genocide the Turks can keep focusing on building up Islamic unions, and forget joining the EU for next 20 years. Well done Brian!

andrew
23 October 2007 at 04:50

Well Done BC!!!

At last someone who speaks truth and sense!!! The Turkish occupation of Cyprus is illegal, immoral and barbaric!! Turkey must face the wrongs of its past if it is to be considered a peaceful westernised nation which fulfills the criteria of an EU nation!!

And as for the Turks which speak the lies; the figure of 1810 victims is misconcieved as it includes the Turk-Cyp victims of 1974 which comprise the vast majority of this figure!! They would have never perished if Turkeys didnt invade in such a barbaric manner; using Napalms, raping innocent women and children; torturing people and killing over 6000+ greek-cyp and forcing 200000+ to become refugees!!! Turkeys crimes are inconceivable and they must accept their wrong-doings!!!

Peace
23 October 2007 at 07:12

A retired turkish general was set upon for stating that it is time to seek peace with the kurds. Will it take the generals in charge of turkey now the same length of time to realise that seeking peace with the people in and around Turkey the only way forward. Hopefully that will happen before they retire.

Terence
23 October 2007 at 08:26

Having read the rubbish that Brian Coleman, Alexander, John Kaponi, John61 and Andrew have just written makes me feel quite ashamed. If it was not for the politicians of this world, and the fools who follow them, the world would be a far better place. Who are you, Brian Coleman, to judge anyone??

Terence

Suzy
23 October 2007 at 09:12

If Brian wants people to take his comments seriously, then he should go and carry out proper research and speak to Turkish Cypriot people who suffered at the hands of Greek Cypriots in order to fully understand what really happened in Cyprus. Writing a one-sided, flawed article based on what he has been told by Greek Cypriot extremists and acting as the mouthpiece of the Greek Cypriot administration in return for the free holiday he got in Cyprus is disgraceful.

A couple of years ago, his lack of reasoning and poor judgement led to him influencing TfL in banning north Cyprus holiday adverts on buses and the underground. The fact that this ban was quashed at the High Court on grounds of violation of Turkish Cypriots’ human rights shows how much importance Brian gives to Turkish Cypriots’ rights. It is a disgrace that he continues to remain ignorant about the Cyprus problem, Kurds and Armenians and makes no effort to find out the facts pushing ahead with his grossly biased views.

Troodo
23 October 2007 at 09:34

Hope you had a good free holiday Coleman. I don't supose you did your political standing much good, but never mind.

PS You might get a new villa next time. Ask that Villier woman for a few tips.

Troodo
23 October 2007 at 09:47

Well done NEW Statesman that saved a few pounds and filled a few colunm inches. Never mind about the truth.

alexandrou
23 October 2007 at 09:56

Brian Coleman's belief that Labour's desire to appease Turkey relates to the need to court the Muslim Vote is naive. Some labour politicians can be accused of that, nevertheless there are far more sinister reasons than that.

First there has been since the Independence of Cyprus a desire on the part of the UK to see a weak divided island. The US merely wanted what Turkey wanted. By 1967 plans were so advanced for the division of the Island that US General Haig put foward a plan to NATO resembling the present state of affairs. The UK policy was and remains as misguided as ever. An aspiration to have the UK as a king pin in the eastern Mediterranean and guaranteeing the presence of the UK bases to be used as a springboard to the Middle East.

Secondly it is simply politics and greed. Politics because those who supported partition and apartheid in Cyprus were largely those UK politicians who supported partition and apartheid in Northern Ireland. Greed because those who did and do support the Turkish occupation usually prosper one way or another, usually buy acquiring cheap properties stolen from refugees in the occupied area. The conservatives and Ulster Unionist were very good at this. More recently the former Prime Minister's wife, Cherie Blair benefited from a very generous brief fee to fight off attempts to enforce a Cyprus Judgment in the UK despite the highly controversial nature of having the Prime Minister's wife dealing in such a high profile political and controversial issue. Lucrative speaches and lectures tours in Turkey also appear on the agenda. We are still waiting to see what the present Prime Minister, Mr. Brown's view on the occupation are. The fact that he has a painting of ruins in occupied Cyprus painted by a Turkish Cypriot does not send a very encouraging message to the refugees and free Cypriots.

As for the other comments I have read, it is clear that either people are ignorant or are prepared to be inventive as to what happened in Cyprus. Less they forget, it was the Turkish Cypriots and Turkish regular troops posing as Turkish Cypriot fighters who started the inter-communal fighting. It was the Turkish Cypriots under orders from Ankara that walked out of the Cypriot parliament, and it was the Turkish Cypriots under Turkish Military Command that set up enclaves in which they isolated themselves away from the rest of Cyprus and passed laws which made any interaction with Greek Cypriots punishable.

The Turkish Cypriots despite representing only 18% of the population at the time, had a greater kill ratio than the Greek Cypriots throughout those troubles, which included in 1967 (is the date familiar, see above) a first attempt to divide the island and the napalming of Greek Cypriot Villages by Turkish warplanes. As for Nicos Sampson, he was a murderess puppet of the Greek Junta, who was not democratically elected and it was a credit to the Cypriot Politicians that they rejected to a man the forceful invitation of the Junta to take up the presidency following the attempted assassination of President Makarios. Less they forget, the majority population of the occupied area was Greek Cypriot (about 80%) and in claiming that half of the island, what ever excuses are given, they are stealing a land and a heritage that does not belong to them. Mr. Coleman should also remember that the refugees did not abandon the occupied area, they were evicted by force of arms. Arms supplied to the Turkish army by NATO.

Yours faithfully,

Andreas E. Alexandrou

Francis House, 2 Park Road, High Barnet, EN5 5RN,

020 8447 1503

nuodr
23 October 2007 at 09:57

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY THE TURKS THINK THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO EQUAL POWER WITH THE GREEKS IN CYPRUS EVEN THOUGH THEY ONLY REPRESENT 18% OF THE POPULATION. I HOPE ONE DAY THE KURDS WHO ARE OVER 20% OF THE POPULATION IN THE REPUBLIC OF TURKEY ARE GIVEN THE SAME RIGHTS AS WHAT THE TURKS WANT IN CYPRUS, OTHERWISE THE TURKS ARE HYPOCRITES. WHY ARE TUKS SO OBCESSED WITH CONTROLLING CYPRUS, KURDISTAN, BULGARIA, GREEK AEGEAN ISLANDS. THEY SHOULD CONCENTRATE ON DEVELOPING THEIR OWN ECONOMY INSTEAD OF BEING A CONFUSED THIRD WORLD COUNTRY CONTROLLED BY THE MILLITARY WITH HIGH LEVELS OF UNECESSARY POVERTY. WELL DONE MR COLEMAN FOR DARING TO SPEAK THE TRUTH ABOUT THE TRUE AXIS OF EVIL IN THIS WORLD.

Demetriou
23 October 2007 at 10:02

Same old Turks, you commit genocides and ethnic cleansing and then complain that you are hard done by. The millions of Armenians you hacked down and murdered, the millions of Greeks you drove from their homes in Asia Minor.

You talk about the demolition of Mosques, my grand parents graveyard in Morphou has been turned into a car park.

Your brutal attack and murder of a young father demonstrating against oppression and apartheid goes unmentioned, your rape of pregnant women, your lack of human rights are renowned.

I have not visited the land of my forefathers and refused to, until freedom and oppression has left with the Turkish troops that enforce it.

The fact of the matter is there are no Turkish Cypriots left in Cyprus, outnumbered by your Turkish Anatolian brethren that treat you like second-class citizens in your own country, and this is from the mouths of Turkish Cypriots, which I speak to in London.

Wake up and smell the coffee!!!!

Fanoulla Argyrou
23 October 2007 at 10:20

Turkish lies and deception is part of Turkish policy unfortunately. Just as they try to deny the Armenian Genocide the same ruthless way they try to deny their barbaric bloody invasion of Cyprus on the 20th July 1974 when they invaded Cyprus (Peter Snow on BBC2 19 July 1974), killed almost 6,000 Greek Cypriots, wounded thousands, uprooted 200,000 Greek Cypriots from their homes who fled for their lives abandoning their homes and belongings and made 1619 missing (killed by Turkish army and Turkish Cypriots). That was undisputable ethnic cleansing by Turkey in order to step into Cyprus in pursued of her expansionist policy of taking over the whole of Cyprus with the help and tacit approval of the then Labour Wilson/Callaghan government. The imported Turkish Anatolian squatters undisputably exceed the 120,000 number, and PRIO's (Oslo) research is fraudulant presentation. PRIO is funded by the British, American and Turkish governments and other corporate bodies who pay them to promote the sell out of Cyprus, as they did with the efforts of imposing the aparheid racist "Annan Plan". Which the Greek Cypriots rejected by 76% against during the 24 April 2004 referendum. We know full well what PRIO means and have exposed them in the Greek Cypriot newspapers. The Turkish Cypriots are 18% of the population of Cyprus and they should accept a solution based on the majority rule constitution, and not ask for a separate state. Can you imagine in Gt. Britain the muslims or the Hindus or the Chinese each to demand "separate state" for themselves?

As for the fallacy and political propaganda of the so 1963 problems in Cyprus those were instigated by Turkey and Britain in order to proceed with their partitionist policies. British military were training the Turkish Cypriots, heavy arms were being imported by Turkey to the Turkish Cypriots even before the Independence (case of Turkish ship Deniz which Sir Hugh Foot prefered to sink in order to save Turkey from the truth). The Republic of Cyprus had to protect its sovereignty and its people. The Turkish Cypriots were well prepared and armed when they attacked us in December 1963 in Neapolis, Trachonas and Omorphita and killed indiscrimately, raped, and tortured even children of 13 abandoning them dead in the streets.

Well done Mr. Coleman and thank you.

We demand to return to our stolen properties, the withdrawal of all Turkish army and settlers and return of all refugees to their homes. As for the Turkish religious monuments in the free part of Cyprus, the Gov of Cyprus keeps them in perfect condition unlike the Turkish Cypriots who have barbarically desecrated all our churches, turned them into shitting places, shops etc (Guardian 6 May 1976, "The rape of northern Cyprus", ITV, This Week, Thames TV John Fielding, The sun, first page 5/8/1974 "BARBARIANS").

Fanoulla Argyrou

Researcher/Journalist/Author

milenko
23 October 2007 at 11:55

what annoys me the most about the Greek Cypriot leadership is that they are never meeting the challenges of the Turkish Cypriots in their leadership and journalism. For instance when the Turks claim something along the lines of Greeks and the international community saying that the Cyprus Problem began in 1974, and then the retort about the persecution of TCs 1963-1974 justifies the invasion. As a matter of fact the Cyprus Problem began in the 1950s with the creation by the British of a paramilitary task force that was composed solely of TCs to command and control GCs. In 1963 the first murders took place by members of the TMT which was the TC terrorist group killing GCs, something we rarely hear about although we all know about EOKA-B. The first bombs to explode in Nicosia had been placed in the Turkish quarter, not by GCs or EOKA but by a Turkish agent provocateur, something Denktas had the decency to admit to in the 90s, although it was too late and the damage had been done. If reconiliation is possible it will have to start with a truth and reconiliation committee where the Turks admit to the things thet have covered up in their intensive propaganda machine

Tax Payer
23 October 2007 at 12:49

Mr Coleman needs to educate himself before speaking on subjects he knows nothing about. There are several books and articles written by people who have carried out thorough research into the Cyprus problem including Prof Clement Dodd and other academics at Cambridge University as well as former Conservative MP Michael Stephen and many more. However, I am not convinced that Mr Coleman really cares about Cyprus or wants to learn the facts but simply wants to make some comments to please the Greek Cypriot administration and his constituents so that they can offer him more free holidays and elect him as their Councillor. Read about the Akritas Plan to understand how the Greek Cypriots wanted to wipe out the existence of Turkish Cypriots on the island in 1963 and have ENOSIS (Union with Greece). The fact that Turkey intervened to stop the genocide of Turkish Cypriots on the island and their Plan failed has made them Turkey’s number one enemy.

Cypriot
23 October 2007 at 13:20

Dear BC, do you know actually who created the Cyprus problem?

In the Greek Cypriot version of history, Greece’s national issue, the “Megali Idea” (Mega Idea), the wish of “Enosis,” -- meaning the annexation of Cyprus to Greece -- stands firm.

The Enosis concept, based on the map of the Megali Idea drawn in 1791 and encapsulating the island of Cyprus in the territories of Greece, which at the time was under Ottoman rule, has stayed on the agenda ever since. This problem, led by Cypriot and Greece Orthodox Churches within their own historical evolution, has various stages.

1st stage: The problem called “Cyprus” actively appeared for the first time after the mapping of the Megali Idea in 1791, release of Enosis manifesto on 1821 and the uprising of Greeks under the leadership of Greek Orthodox Church.

2nd stage: The period between 1878-1914, when the active sovereignty of Cyprus was handled by the British. During this period, Turkish Cypriots were compelled to migrate in huge numbers, prompted by bloody attacks organized by swarms of Greeks and the properties owned by the Evkaf (Turkish Foundation) were confiscated. The origin of the property issue, still on the agenda today, goes back to this era.

3rd stage: The period covering the days after the unilateral annexation of the island by the British. In 1921 and 1950, Enosis plebiscites organized under the patronage of the Orthodox Church and Enosis helped with an uprising that took place in 1931, and 1955 the EOKA started an armed campaign steered by Greece.

4th stage: The period covered after the establishment of the Republic of Cyprus in 1960 till 1974. Greek Cypriots attempted to knock down the republic by changing the constitution and enforced the AKRITAS Plan on Dec. 21, 1963, where Mr. Papadopoulos was one of the masterminds under the code name “Defkalion”.

The international community, blaming Turkey for an occupation, seems to be forgetting the fact that Greece had sent secretly a division of 20,000 troops to the island in 1964. As a result, Turkish Cypriots had to evacuate 103 villages and were squeezed in “ghettos” covering barely 3 percent of the total land. They were forced to survive under unemployment, economic sanctions, restricted right of movement, no property rights and even massacred.

During the 4th stage, two fronts, actually both aiming for Enosis as the final target but differing in timing and procedure, came on scene. The EOKA-B, supported by the junta in Greece, was willing to achieve Enosis via short cut by overthrowing President Makarios, took over the administration by a military coup on July 15, 1974.

During the internal clashes within the Greek community in this period, 2,000 Greek Cypriots were killed and Nikos Sampson installed as the new president. Makarios, in his speech on July 19, 1974 at the UN Security Council stated that “the July 15 coup was organized by the Greek government and is an occupation threatening the independency and sovereignty of the island.”

All of these, based on written material, bring up the existence of a cluster of problems on the island, founded and governed by Greece before two centuries and finally aimed to overtake the administration. The 1974 military intervention by Turkey based on the Treaty of Guarantee is not the factor that created the Cyprus problem, but actually, on the contrary, aimed to end it and became a turning point by opening a passage for finding a political solution.

Alongside the statement of Makarios, the existence of the ruling of Supreme Court of Greece dated March 21, 1979 and ref 2658/79, stating, “The intervention of Turkish Army to Cyprus is fully legal, the responsibility totally belongs to Greek officers” are by no means the best testimonials to clarify the picture

chief112
23 October 2007 at 14:12

You talk about economic growth of southern cyprus and the lack of growth by the northern "occupied" territory without mention of the embargoes and lack of recognition.

How do you expect there to be growth if you dont think this country/state exists, so surely this shouldnt be a surprise to you.

Its a disgrace that my local MP would insult me and my family openly, by not writing a truly objective argument.

This argument is an insult to all the turkish cypriots who died in cyprus and even more of an insult to those who are still alive.

It is fact that the turks and greeks signed a treaty agreeing that cyprus would belong to neither, and still the greek army occupied the region between 1963 and 1974. maybe that might have slipped your mind, or the history book you were reading whilst in cyprus might have been missing a couple of chapters.

To make comments of the so called armenian "Genocide" is just attempting to bring bad press to Turkey itself. this further insults a whole nation of people.

to then suggest that the 12 troops who were killed, along with hundreds of civilians by the PKK might somehow be justified, or that turkey is over-reacting.....is disgusting. a known terrorist organisation exists and because it hasnt hit the UK we can turn a blind eye.....? I ask you whether you thought to insult everyone, or whether you are really this stupid.

Reading back some of the comments:

to Nuodr: TC's deserve equal rights just like you deserve equal rights in the UK....read your comment and tell me if GC's number the same as english people in england then ask if you deserve equal rights in england - ignorance and racism go hand in hand......

to the rest: we tried to live together, it didnt work greeks entered in 1963. and stayed until 1974. now you wish to live together again....?its a case one "once bitten twice shy" especially seeing as you want to live under majority rule....

your comments on this board reflect why there shouldnt be a majority rule, you are bitter and filled with hate....why should we want you to govern us.....

Fanoulla Argyrou
23 October 2007 at 15:39

T/C leader Raouf Denktash indeed admitted during interview in a Granada TV documentary that they indeed were themselves bombing their own mosques, killing their own people and indeed committing criminal offences and sabotage to blame the Greek Cypriots in order to force their expansionist policy against the Greek Cypriots.

Michael Stephens and Clement Dodd. Both promote pro-Turkish partitionist policies. Michael Stephens belonged to the Bow Group of the Conservative Party, established in 1951, with founder members among others Sir Geoffrey Howe. In the 1990s among its members was John Biffen, the then Chief Adviser to "Euro-Turkish Corporation" and it was in 1992 that Michael Stephen presented his pro-Turkish partitionist contribution to his masters in a circular titled" "Bow Educational Briefing - Cyprus Two Nations in one island" . His so called research was a most horrific selection of the most inuman distortion of facts. To believe such lies and extraordinary bias against the Greeks is as if one tries to make sense out of madness! But then that was the time of the Asil Nadir Polly Peck "empire rise and fall" when occupied Cyprus was used by Conservative British Government and America for exporting arms and other weaponery for the Iran/Iraq war and when that was over then Nadir was conveniently assisted to escape to the occupied area of Cyprus. (Research "Business Age").

As regards the so called "isolation" of the Turkish Cypriots, this is a new word invented by ex Foreign Secretary Jack Straw who admitted that his best achievement during his presence in the Foreign Office was the start of Turkey's accession negotiations with the E.Union and his biggest frustration the fact that they failed to impose on us the aparheid racist "Anan/Hanney" plan (Londra Gazette), which according to Turkish analylists included 99% of Turkish demands over Cyprus including its de-criminalisation from the crimes of the invasion and continued occupation. The Greek Cypriots simply refused to commit suicide to suit British and Turkish interests vis-a-vis Turkish accession facilitation. This new inventive word of "isolation" Jack Straw promised two days after the referendum (i.e. 26/4/2004) to do all they could to end it. However, there IS NO isolation in the occupied areas. And if they have anybody to blame for whatever, that is the Turkish Army of occupation and their subortinates the Anatolian squatters. This is another myth to cheat the international community. Their "isolation" is the Turkish continued invasion and occupation of our land. Infact it is the Greek Cypriots who are barbarically isolated in their own country and cannot return to their own properties. The Turkish Cypriots are free to come and go as they please all over the Republic of Cyprus and whilst they hold on to our stolen properties: They enjoy free medical cover in our hospitals, whereas the Greek Cypriots PAY, thousands have been given PASSPORTS of the Republic of Cyprus with which they travel all over the world, use it to claim to be citizens of the Republic of Cyprus when it suits them to enter Universities abroad etc, well over 6,000 Turkish Cypriot pensioners enjoy pension from the Republic of Cyprus (the invasion did not stop the Republic from continuing this funding), they enjoyed free Electricity supply to the amount of well over £250 MILLION POUNDS worth which they did not reply (until they created their own), they are issued well over 90,000 IDENTITY CARDS of the Republic of Cyprus whilst they pay nothing in contributions like the rest of the Greek Cypriot citizens of the Republic and so many other benefits without giving a penny towards the government. and yet they have the audacity to use horrific lies and be so ungrateful to the Greek Cypriot victims, simply because we refuse to offer Cyprus to Turkey on a plate!!! To a minority of 18%!!! Let us not forget that the solution Michael Stevens, Clement Dodd and other belonging to that kind of thinking (like Baroness Ludford...) i.e. the aparheid, racist 'Anan/Hannay' plan based on a bizonal bicommunal federation is nowhere else to be found in the world democracies. The only time it was offered to people was in South Africa but even then it was rejected by Nelson Mandela (whose statue is about to be placed in London) and the Black Majority. Why should the Greek Cypriot majority in Cyprus victims of a barbaric ethnic cleansing by Turkey be treated any different? Are they children of a lesser God?

Robert Powell
23 October 2007 at 16:10

Vote Tory and get more Brian Colemans all at knockdown prices.

Michael
23 October 2007 at 17:29

It is not worth dignifying the topsy-turvy surreal revisionist histories posted by some of the T/C’s & their supporters, with corrections. Truth, just like Facts, has a quite stubborn characteristic, and can easily be verified by those with an unprejudiced mind & a willingness to investigate. Researching unbiased official international reports, as well as national official records (including recently declassified ones) is a good starting point.

Like a naughty child that when caught, Turkey always turns around and lies, “It wasn’t me” or "he hit me first", & points to others, normally the victims on the receiving end. Turkey & it supporters really need to grow-up, and take responsibility for their own actions, both past & present. Worst than just a naughty child, it is very much a spoilt child, in that it has gotten, indeed it has been facilitated, in its many recent crimes by Western support or acquiescence, simply because the “enemy of my enemy is my friend” guiding philosophy of NATO; that long border with Russia & all those bases so close to the Middle East, has literally allowed Turkey to get away with (mass) murder. It plays upon its value to the West, and has time after time used this as a blatant instrument of blackmail.

The Armenia Genocide is a good example, not only is blackmail & threats employed to invert the truth, but also corrupting bribes, witness the recent scandal of pro-Turkish US professors being funded directly by Turkish Government organisations. The recent Democratic initiative in the US of raising the Armenian Genocide issue, has tellingly only occurred because powerful Israeli lobby groups, especially the ADL, were having such trouble with rank & file members, because of these groups hypocritical official position of campaigning against anti-Semitism & denial of the Holocaust, but refusing to acknowledge the reality of the Armenian Genocide. A hypocritical stands directly following official Israeli Government policy. Historical truth being shamefully sacrificed on the altar of not upsetting Israel’s second best friend.

Regarding Cyprus, yes the history is long & involved, but the issue is simple; an illegal land grab by means of ethnic cleansing. The Turkish Cypriots were used by Turkey, exactly as Germany used the Sudeten German minority in Czechoslovakia to invade & annex that Country. Rather than imitating Nazi Germany, Turkey would do follow post-War Germany’s example of admitting it’s crimes & paying restitutions to all its victims; only then can when it comes to terms with its past, can it move forward as a modern progressive Country, and take its place amongst other nations without being dogged & haunted by is past.

Finally I agree with a previous commenter, that assigning the strong pro-Turkish bias of all recent British Governments, simply as a vote winning tactic is more than naïve, and mars an otherwise good article.

Ulpian
23 October 2007 at 18:12

Brian Coleman writes uninformed nonsense.

'Give me a free holiday and I'll say whatever you like about any subject' seems to be his mantra.

If his craven, lazy ignorance is representative of the Tories, which it seems it is, I too will not be voting for them again.

Leventis
23 October 2007 at 20:31

Turkey must understand that if she wants to join the club of the civilised Europeans known as European Union she must behave ln a civilised manner.

She must respect other members of the EU including Cyprus. She has no place in the EU with 40,000 Turkish troops occupying by force a third of Cyprus which is an EU member.

She has the audacity to ask for membership when she occupies a third of my country? How dare she?

Britain and the USA have got a lot to answer for Turkey's uncontrolable apetite for expansion and demands. Even today Gordon Brown and his Labour government awarded such behaviour by Turkey by signing a treaty of Strategic Co-operation/Alliance with Prime Minister Ertogan for the sole purpose of ending the so called "isolation" of the Turkish Cypriots. That's how pathetic the Labour Government is. In 1974 the Labour Government has given the Green light to the Turks to invade Cyprus . Today Turkey is rewarded by the same Labour government who indirectly brought so much catastrophy in Cyprus (divide and rule).

Labour government by championing Turkey encourages her to be more intransigent and spoiled like a child and wanting more and more without giving anything back.

What the Labour goverment failed to understand is that the so called "isolation" of the TCs was impose by the presence of the 40,000 strong Turkish army there. Remove the Turkish army and you have no "isolation". The island of Cyprus can be reunited just like that. Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots used to live together for many years. It can be done again.

Taner Alevok
23 October 2007 at 21:05

"6000 killed by Turkish troops"

What a load of nonsense. If people didn't already know, Turkey came in response to a Greek COUP in which Makarios' supporters clashed with the Junta.

Makarios himself stated that the death toll of the coup was in the thousands. The Greeks were killing eachother. The Greeks know these facts but the blame for these deaths is shamelessly dumped on the Turks.

"1500 missing".

70% of the Greek Cypriot missing are military personel. On the contrary the missing Turkish Cypriots mainly consist of, women, children and old folk.

Everyone knows that they are all dead, but the Greek government will use anything as propaganda, and that includes lying to their own people as was the case with Androulla Palma who was told her husband was missing when their government knew full well her husband was dead and buried from the very beginning (74).

The only people I have sympathy for are the refugees. The innocent Greek Cypriots who have lost their homes and towns. They deserve justice. Their government doesn't deserve anything however, I would rather die than let their amateur nationalist politicians decide the future of our people.

Mozza
23 October 2007 at 21:14

I am so sad to read that the propaganda coming out of Cyprus is believed by politicians in the UK! I am UK born and bred with no axe to grind re Cyprus, but why does every aticle you read support the south whenTurkey only invaded as a result of hostilitiesfrom the south. Ethnic cleansing went on on both sides of the fence, not one way. Also what about all the Turkish property in the south now occupied by south inhabitents or demolished. It works both ways you know! Both sides were at fault, but the north does not deserve all the factually incorrect propaganda which spouts forth from the south. Why does everyonoe keep harping on about what happened over 30 years ago what relevance does it have now, things have moved on. The south is more Greek than Greece itself and the north has become Turkish how can that possibly be united again? Why don't they just do what they did in India when they had internal fighting - recognise the diffences and make it official. Things have gone too far now to integrate the two sides. It would be impossible politically, fiancially, practically to undo 30+ years of seperation. So please would everyone bury the hatchet and get on with life, it's too short everyone lost on both sides.

Emina
23 October 2007 at 22:37

Well done Mr Coleman upon reading some of the comments made above i congratulate you in encouraging Greek and Turkish Cypriots as ill informed and intolerant as yourself to espouse the utter rubbish i am sad to read. Also how shallow does Mr Coleman believe the so called Muslim vote to be I am a Turkish Cypriot and certainly dont base my voting on any policy towards Turkey. I wish people like Mr Coleman and the rest of the fools making racist intolerant comments would just shut up and allow the Cypriots who genuinely feel a united Cyprus is possible get a word in edgeways.

George
23 October 2007 at 23:24

I guess BC never read any of the articles written by the former Greek Cypriot Foreign Minister, Nicos Rolandis where he repeated time and time again how the Greek Cypriot administration rejected 7 Peace Plans put in front of them. If it wasn’t for their greed for power to control the whole of Cyprus and the Greek Cypriots voted in favour of the UN and EU endorsed Annan Plan for reunification of the island, they would have gone back to Famagusta and Morphou and only 650 Turkish soldiers would have been left on the island. Instead, they followed the instructions from the Greek Orthodox Church telling them they would go to hell if they voted yes and the instructions from their extremist leader who sees ‘osmosis’ as the solution to the Cyprus problem. Wake up and smell the Turkish coffee! Greek Cypriot extremism is leading to partition of the island! Turkey is not the enemy of the Greek Cypriots it is their own power hungry, nationalist leaders who worship Hellenism.

Exactly why does Brian Coleman continue to promote Greek Cypriots’ interests? Could it by any chance be to do with his need of the Greek Cypriot votes in Barnet?

Shame on you BC! You are giving a bad name to the Conservative Party.

David
24 October 2007 at 00:05

M Coleman is a T**S*ER!!!!!!

I was plannin on voting for conservatives in the next elections - for a change rom labur but i people has suhrubbsh informed opinions of others, uch as thi guy.. i doubt it!

I kid you not tha this man cannot read.. nd has omemory, ethica beleifs.. and maybe his pocket dips into that of Greek lobbyists.

What you speak about is not about turkis olitics, its aboutteTurkish Cypriots.. people who have a legal ancestral right to a home of their own in cyprus

i ould ike to see you livethrough the inscurities of what the turkish cypriots did befoe Turkey intervened. Coleman, o you know what it is lie to sleep at night fearng or your life, and that of your childr? not to have your voice heard? to be traeted as a secod class citizen.. i think not.

what it you who was held in prisonr of war camps by the greeks?.. whos family was kille by the reeks, whos villages who "cleansed" by the greeks? i think not.

d you not hea the racism you are breathing that he greek leaders are breathing? their bsession with the turkish cypriots?. i think you are an idiot, for even ettng into the complicate Cyprus politics.

maybe EU has a thing or two to consider before theylet in a troubled nation, ne with racism asa forfront of teir politics.. or did they already do tht with serbia?.. we saw where that ended up!

if all it takes is a free holiday to convice you.. then just let the turkish cypriots know, and maybe they can visit your local travel agency and sort you a holiday out. one where you can realy have time to prepare an ignorant, foolish, racist, and fustratingly paphetic speach!

alexander
24 October 2007 at 01:28

It’s really sad to see all the Turkish Cypriot commenters here writing such rubbish and failing to deal properly with any of the issues Brian Coleman has so correctly raised.

Is he not telling the truth when he says the Turkish occupation regime has tried to wipe out Cyprus’ cultural heritage? Is he lying when he says that Turkey has brought in 150,000 settlers from Anatolia to change the demography of Cyprus? Is it not true that 200,000 Greeks were ethnically cleansed from northern Cyprus as a result of the Turkish invasion in 1974?

Turks must deal with these issues and leave the rants and personal invective aside.

Here’s a piece developing some of Brian’s arguments.

http://my.telegraph.co.uk/john_akritas/october_2007/labour_s...

skoopi
24 October 2007 at 10:00

The religious and ethnic cleansening of greek-christians in Cyprus by the Turkish army is the continuation of a century-long policy of persecutions and anihilations of the christian populations in the area.

This christian population is the living cultural and human heritage of the Roman-Byzantine empire.

The cleanesing policy started when the nationalist >Turks firs came in power in 1915, with the Amenian genocide, followed by the exode of the greek populations of Turkey between 1918-1923, the genocide of the Syriac Christians in the south of Turkey , the pogroms againts the greek population of Istabul between 1955 and 1965.

The greek population of Istambul felt from 200 000 to 4 000 in the last 40 years.

Althow the nationalistic persecution has not stopped and the Greek Patriach in Istanbul is still the target of both turkish gouvernment and nationalists.

The last step was the invasion of Cyprus in 1974.

The result of this policy is that the cosmopolitan and multi-religious society of the late ottoman empire has vanished and turned into a 99% muslim "modern" turkish state.

A "modern" state where Hrant Dink, aTurkish-Armenian journalist, has been setenced to prison and assasinated last year.

Why?

Just bescause he was critical of Turkey’s denial of the Armenian genocide.

Now Turkey is knoking to the door of the UE.

Maybe it's time for Turkey to apply the treaties it signed and to behave with respect toward its neighbouring countries.

But this will not be possible as long as the official propaganda will decribe the "gavurs" or infidels-christians as the ennemies.

David
24 October 2007 at 11:41

why are you all so ignorant when it comes to the facts. Did Turkey come in to Cyprus - yes!..

did Turkey and Britain, Greece signa guarrantor treaty? yes...

did Greek Cypriots push the rights of the turkish cypriots aside? yes..

did greek continuouly kill turkish Cypriots in acts of rage and ethnic cleansing? yes...

dont beleive me - fair enough.. but i think you will beleive the BBC!

BBC timeline below.. READ IT BEFORE YOU COMMENT WITH SUCH IGNORANCE.

before commentiung that Turkey invaded, understand why the came in, and what happened that lead to these events.

lets not forget at one point Greece tried to kill of the Cyprus president Makarios, that inter communal fighting broke out between all communities.. greeks were ven trying to kill greeks. lets also not forget there have been key witnesses by the british to all this.

then lets not forget why the turkish cypriots are still alive today - that is definately not due to Cyprus government, or Greece.

If invading is what you keep pressing on.. well maybe you should also think of the effects of your actions, and how these should be resolved and sorted out.. The attitude against the Turkish Cypriots by key government officials and brain washed individuals are not acceptable.

Cypriots do not seperate themselves into muslim and Christians.. they are all Cypriots remember that before bringing in world politics of Armenia and Kurds.

Finally lets not forget that Cyprus did belong to Turkey, and Turkey rented it to Great Britain as a Colony. This resulted to the conflicts when Greek Cypriots decided they no longer wanted to be a British Colony.

Piolitics is a complicated world - but its simple to see the facts that the Turkish Cypriots have been victims of ethnic cleansing, adn suppression in Cyprus.

ENOSIS and EOKA is not a fiction it is a FACT!

What can you say to this - nothing that will mean anything or change anything becasue this actually happened!

David
24 October 2007 at 11:43

Why are you all so ignorant when it comes to the facts. Did Turkey come in to Cyprus - yes!..

Did Turkey and Britain, Greece sign a guarrantor treaty? yes...

Did Greek Cypriots push the rights of the turkish cypriots aside? yes..

Did greek continuouly kill turkish Cypriots in acts of rage and ethnic cleansing? yes...

Dont beleive me - fair enough.. but i think you will beleive the BBC!

BBC timeline below.. READ IT BEFORE YOU COMMENT WITH SUCH IGNORANCE.

Before commentiung that Turkey invaded, understand why the came in, and what happened that lead to these events.

Lets not forget at one point Greece tried to kill of the Cyprus president Makarios, that inter communal fighting broke out between all communities.. Greeks were ven trying to kill greeks. lets also not forget there have been key witnesses by the British to all this.

Then lets not forget why the turkish cypriots are still alive today - that is definately not due to Cyprus government, or Greece.

If invading is what you keep pressing on.. well maybe you should also think of the effects of your actions, and how these should be resolved and sorted out.. The attitude against the Turkish Cypriots by key government officials and brain washed individuals are not acceptable.

Cypriots do not seperate themselves into muslim and Christians.. they are all Cypriots remember that before bringing in world politics of Armenia and Kurds.

Finally lets not forget that Cyprus did belong to Turkey, and Turkey rented it to Great Britain as a Colony. This resulted to the conflicts when Greek Cypriots decided they no longer wanted to be a British Colony.

Piolitics is a complicated world - but its simple to see the facts that the Turkish Cypriots have been victims of ethnic cleansing, adn suppression in Cyprus.

ENOSIS and EOKA is not a fiction it is a FACT!

What can you say to this - nothing that will mean anything or change anything becasue this actually happened!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1021835.stm

alexander
24 October 2007 at 12:31

Did Greek Cypriots push the rights of the Turkish Cypriots aside? NO.

Did Greeks continuously kill Turkish Cypriots in acts of rage and ethnic cleansing? NO.

The BBC article does not reveal what you claim it reveals. In fact, I find very little in it to disagree with. The BBC says regarding the 1963 events: ‘Makarios raises Turkish fears by proposing constitutional changes which would abrogate power-sharing arrangements. Inter-communal violence erupts. Turkish side withdraws from power-sharing’.

Obviously, I wouldn’t agree that the proposed constitutional amendments would have abrogated power-sharing – the BBC writer is wrong here – but would argue instead that Makarios’ amendments were aimed at making the 1960 constitution more viable following three years of Turkish obstructionism.

The BBC writer correctly says intercommunal violence erupted – note he does not say Greeks attacked Turks, as Turkish mythology would have us believe. I’m sure if the BBC writer had more space he would say that the intercommunal violence was instigated by the Turkish Cypriot terrorist group, TMT.

The BBC writer is also correct to point out that the Turks withdrew from power sharing, indicating that this was a voluntary withdrawal, i.e. Greek Cypriots did not force the Turkish minority out, as Turkish mythology would have us believe.

The EOKA campaign for enosis was aimed at British colonial rule, not at the Turkish Cypriots. Conversely, the Turkish Cypriot terrorist campaign for partition/taxi was aimed specifically at Greek Cypriots and predicated on the ethnic cleansing of Greek Cypriots.

Cyprus has been an overwhelming Greek island in population and culture for 3,500 years – regardless of which empire – British, Ottoman, Venetian – has technically ‘owned’ it. And if it is all a question of ownership, then I’m going to start talking about Evagoras, Alexander the Great, the Ptolemies and the Byzantines. But let’s not go there.

adouloti kerinia
24 October 2007 at 16:44

adouloti kerinia 24.10.07 -

We represent the Greek Cypriot refugees from the District of Kyrenia which is now under Turkish occupation since 1974. We were born and raised in Kyrenia. I would like to address the compatriots, Turkish cypriots with the following thoughts.

We find the article by the British MP very interesting and sincere, not because he was a quest here but because he speeks of the truth. Cyprus has suffered an external milittary invasion - fact 1

The dececration of our churces -fact2

The ethnic cleancing of the Greek Cypriots from the occupied areas of Cyprus who constituted the 86% of the population there before 1974 and who were the owners of 86% of the private property in the occupied areas -fact 3

The population distribution and land ownership in Cyprus have evolved over centuries and was last registered by the British colonial power in 1960 when Cyprus gained independence. The Greek Cypriots constituted the vast majority in population and property ownerhip. ---historical fact 4

On the way to independence from Britain ,British and Turkish Power politics in the Eastern Meditteranean cruelly applied the divide and rule strtegies of Britain

in order to gain imfluence and control on our island.--fact 5 verified by the British Foreign Office documents on Cyprus for the period 1955-1960.

As a result of the above, the ordinary Turkish and Greek Cypriots have suffered for decades. Artificial differences and forced bicomunal strife were the instruments used to break the harmony and peaceful coexistence of Greek and Turkish Cypriots. They found willing agents among us , members of both Comunities, who served the foreign conspiracy. --Fact 6 revealed again by the British Foreign Office Documents on Cyprus.

The mass of our people, whether Turk or greek have suffered the concequences severely.

The Turkish invasion was part of the planning of that conspiracy. Through the invasion and the forced movement of the people, ( ethnic cleancing of the Greeks from the occupied areas of Cyprus and the uwilling transfer of the Turkish Cypriots from tyhe free areas of Cyprus into the occupied areas under intimitation) Britain and Turkey achieved the our separation planned in the fifties and cruelly executed in 1974. We all learned our lesson the hard way and we should not continue to allow foreign interference lead us further into trouble. We owe it to our childrenand grand children. A whole population can not be condemned to suffer for years to come because foreign interests dictate so.

Untill the ANNAN Plan appeared we considered the Turkish Cypriots to be as much as we are, victims of the Turkish invasion and occupation. Since then things are begining to change. We get the impression that the Turkish Cypriots are settling to the idea that they will remain in our homes in the occupied areas of Cyprus and we shall remain refugees for ever. If this proves to be a fact then they will be identidied as our enemies as much as the Turkish occupation and the Turkish settlers illegally settled on Cyprus.

We are making it known that we shall never relinguish our rights to our homes and property in the occupied areas of Cyprus and we shall continue to claim and struggle for what belongs to us. Ourselves , our children and the generations to come , if necessary, shall always have our hearts and souls turned towards Pendathaktilos and our occupied homeland.

Therefore we call on our compatriots to thing again. We are condemned to live together on our island and that is why we must stand together in a common struggle to get rid of the invaders and the settlers and restore freedom to Cyprus , restore the human rights of all of us by our reenstatement in our towns and villages all over Cyprus like before with one difference. With the sworn determination to ensure that nobody will be able to cause friction between us , as free European citizens , of equal status on our Eyropean litlle island. Ourselves should become the quarantee for our peacefull coexistence on Cyprus.

Let us take Mr. Brian Colmans remarks as our uniting starting point for the common effort.

Mozza
24 October 2007 at 21:23

George - I couldn't have put it any better myself - very well said - bravo.

Mozza
24 October 2007 at 21:35

David - I am really trying to understand why the people in the south feel that their property is being illegally occupied when surely the same thing has happened the other way round as well. Or is it the fact that Turkey have presence in the north which makes outsiders view the north as illegal, cos in the north the ihabitents are just getting on with their lives the best they can in the same way I'm sure they are in the south. Do you really believe that Cyprus can be united again after all this time? I agree that being Cypriot should come before being Turkish Cypriot or Greek Cypriot, but it doesn't seem to. There will be always one side which wants dominance particularly when politcians are involved.

Sev
24 October 2007 at 23:32

It seems that Brian has a problem with Turks and Turkish settlers forgetting to mention that there are 230,000 Greek settlers on the south of the island. But then again that was not in the script given to him by his Greek Cypriot hosts, so he wouldn’t know anything about that.

As a British Cypriot who has been driven out of my property in Paphos in 1964 by the Greek militia who set fire to my home and my shop and were firing bullets at my family while we were running away for our safety, I have the following message to the Turkish troops in Cyprus:

“Thank you for coming and saving us from the brutal attacks of the Greek militia. We are indebted to you for sacrificing your lives to come and save ours and preventing the genocide of the remaining Turkish Cypriots on the island. We can never thank you enough for bringing peace to our island. We can now sleep safe in our beds knowing that you are here to protect us. God give you strength and long live Turkey. Please, do not leave us at the hands of the Greek Cypriot extremists until there is a comprehensive settlement plan in Cyprus based on political equality and respect for human rights.”

alexander
25 October 2007 at 01:01

'230,000 Greek settlers on the south of the island'.

Where do you get this stuff from? It's pure fantasy. Sometimes I wonder if Turkish Cypriots aren't on drugs.

As for the rest, you can go back to Paphos any time you like and you know you can. No one's stopping you, unlike the 200,000 Greek Cypriot refugees from northern Cyprus who are being deprived of their homes by 40,000 Turkish occupation troops and 150,000 Turkish settlers.

When you say you want a Cyprus settlement that secures human rights, I take it you want these human rights to apply to Greek Cypriots too and that these rights should include the right of Greek refugees to return to their homes in northern Cyprus. You do mean human rights – rights for all Cypriots – and not just rights for Turkish Cypriots, don’t you?

Chris
25 October 2007 at 02:13

Thank you to Brian Coleman for having the courage to criticise Turkey and its illegal occupation of one third of Cyprus. This is something that successive UK governments seem incapable of doing, despite Britain's obligation to protect the territorial integrity of the Republic of Cyprus.

In the troubles in Cyprus of the 50s-60s Greek and Turkish Cypriots suffered approximately the same losses – around 500 each. But in 1974 Turkish troops committed mass atrocities, as documented by the report of the European Commission of Human Rights of 1976 which brought to light the mass executions, torture and rape (of women and young girls) conducted by the Turkish army and its officers with complete impunity. If there was a genocide in Cyprus it was committed by Turkey in its murder of 6,000 Greek Cypriots –  combatants and non-combatants and in attempts to eradicate the thousands of years long heritage of Cyprus that unfortunately for Turkey happens to be predominantly Greek.

This is the realisation of Turkey's long term plans to foist on Cypriots "taksim", Turkey's own racist brand of apartheid in Europe.

As for Turkey's European aspirations? Is it a civilised European state that attempts to alter the demographic composition of a country through the importation of 162,000 illegal colonists who have no legal, moral or historical right to occupy the homes and lands of Greek Cypriots? Is it a modern EU suitable country that daubs an entire mountainside with Turkish supremacist statements to taunt the ethnically cleansed Greek Cypriots living in exile in the free areas: "How proud is he who calls himself a Turk"? Actions speak louder than words and it is on Turkey's actions that it is being judged.

Mike Pagomenos
25 October 2007 at 04:04

Well done Mr Coleman. A well written article on issues that are rarely reported.

The young people of Turkey find it very difficult to accept that their fathers, grandfathers, great grandfathers, and great great grandfathers carried out Genocide, ethnic cleansing, and the desecration of churches. That is totally understandable. It is too horrible for anyone to believe or accept such despicable actions.

But denial puts salt in those great wounds.

The Turks usurped the indigenous peoples of the Middle East and eastern Europe. Not the other way around.

We can only forgive those who ask for forgiveness. Meanwhile, the unforgiven will be tormented by their own denial till the end of time.

Yours sincerely,

Mike Pagomenos

Documentary Filmmaker

To Kounoupi
25 October 2007 at 11:28

What Brian Coleman is too polite to point out is that the cultural genocide committed by Turkey in Cyprus is entirely consistent with her appalling tradition of genocide committed throughout the 20th century. The Armenians, the Pontic Greeks, the Smyrna Greeks, the Greek Cyprots and now the Kurds have all sufferred. Is there anyone left in the neighbourhood that Turkey has not tried to bully, victimise, intimidate or otherwise mistreat in her paranoid obsession at creating an ethnically Turkish state? The truth hurts and this is what has prompted the usual drivel from your Turkish readers. Coming to terms with history is the sign of political maturity, something Turks seem to lack. But let's not dwell on the past. The present is what Mr Coleman describes and he paints a truly awful picture of cultural cleansing following ethnic cleansing. In all genocides killings are followed by cultural cleansing. The final act is the denial of what happened. This is what the Turks have been desperately trying to do to the Armenians and those who have commented on this excellent piece are following this criminal pattern. Shame on you appeasers of genocide!!

TC
25 October 2007 at 11:58

I applaud Mr Coleman's frank and refreshingly truth based comments.

To all those who hark back 3 centuries, I'd suggest looking at ways to move forward and to stop fueling the pseudo ethnic conflicts which any visitor to North London can clearly see are not true.

Mr Coleman states the situation as it currently stands and as it is accepted internationaly by individuals, countries and organisations such as the UN and Europe whilst ignoring the propaganda which seeks to distort realities.

stoneman
25 October 2007 at 14:31

Excellent piece from Mr. Coleman. It reminds us about the essential truth behind the Cyprus 'issue'. Let us not forget that Turkey named the invasion of Cyprus 'Operation Attila.' A name which speaks volumes for the barbarity, brutality and evil of the invasion of Cyprus. A British newspaper at the time ran a front page filled with just one word for a headline: 'Barbarians.'

Since 1974 Turkish propaganda has attempted to rewrite the invasion as a 'peace operation' . A phrase so outrageously Orwellian in its scope that one wonders if Turks have any sense of shame. To invade, pillage, rob and occupy a democratic neighbour in the interests of 'peace' is a concept sadly many Turks still seem not to have any problems with.

Similarly, the Turkish propaganda machine continues its endless orgy of denial over the massacre of Armenians at the beginning of the last century. Turkey continues to live in a state of total denial about some of its most appalling abuses of humanity. As one critic has put it Turkey 'is unbending in its never-wrongness'.

To this day, Turkey maintains that the Armenian genocide never happened. There have been no admissions, no apologies and no compensation. For years the Turks refused to admit that Kurds even existed - there was no Kurdish language, no Kurdish culture, nothing.

As Mr. Coleman eloquently and bravely testifies, Greek culture in Cyprus - a place mentioned several times in Homer before the Turks existed - has been virtually eliminated from the north of the island, occupied by 40,000 Turkish troops and ruled behind the scenes by the Turkish Embassy in occupied northern Nicosia.

As far as north Cyprus is concerned, Mr. Coleman is utterly correct. Every aspect of its Greek and Christian heritage has been expunged, or else looted and exported. As Christopher Hitchens puts it 'perhaps nothing illustrates the real nature of the Turkish invasion and occupation better than the pillage of northern Cyprus.'

Well done to Mr. Coleman for being on the side of justice and truth.

Sol
25 October 2007 at 15:00

Stoneman wrote "Every aspect of its Greek and Christian heritage has been expunged, or else looted and exported."

Actually not, can you name one place, just one which has been destroyed? It is quite true that they have not been maintained, but the northern part of the island does have as much money. Some have been vanderlised. They have not been destroyed though.

Unlike the treatment of many of the Turkish buildings such as the Grand Mosque is Phahos. Now a car park.

Sol
25 October 2007 at 15:08

Alexander

'230,000 Greek settlers on the south of the island'.

Is based on research by Proffessor Ata Atun, this number includes many non Greek settlers, but also abound 100,000 "mainland" Greeks. It is interesting to note that the RoC has a policy of giving citizenship to any Greek Soldier who has served on Cyprus.

I read recently and article in the Cyprus mail abut the Pontus Greek in Cyprus and how they were poorly assimitated.

Jeyda
25 October 2007 at 15:12

Dear Mr Coleman, you seem to be uncomfortable with the Turkish settlers in the north but you fail to mention the Greek settlers in the south. Do I detect some hostility in your article towards Turks and Muslims or are you simply repeating what you have been told by your Greek Cypriot friends? I suggest you read the piece below so that you have a more balanced view of what goes on in Cyprus.

Historically, and particularly since 1961, Greece has systematically pursued a deliberate policy of colonizing and annexing Cyprus (a process they term “Enosis”), due to which 60,000 Turkish Cypriots were forced to leave their homes, memories and belongings in 1964 after the fierce attacks of Greek militia and a further 60,000 in 1974, as the outcome of the notorious coup d’etat against Archbishop Makarios, staged by Greek generals in Greece.

This is being done in order to change the demographic structure of the island, to control and adulterate the 1960 Treaty of Establishment of the Republic of Cyprus. Such attempts at consolidating the transformation of Cyprus’s demographic character continued even after the events of 1974.

Under international law mass transfers by another country of its own civilian population into territories outside its boundaries to change demographic structure is illegal. Greece sent over its own population to the island of Cyprus in the early 1900s, and more consistently since 1961.

Weeks before the parliamentary elections held on May 21, 2006 on the Greek Cypriot side, Greek Cypriot Interior Minister Andreas Hristu announced the election areas and the number of voters.

The crucial part of the announcement was the number of the additional voters. It revealed a dramatic increase of 30,000 on top of the existing 470,000 voters, with the new total topping 500,000.

When the backgrounds of these 500,000 voters were analyzed, a stunning outcome surfaced, clearly revealing the number of Greek settlers clandestinely accumulated on the island since 1961.

The breakdown of “Greek settlers” in this electoral list of 500,000 is approximately as follows:

Pontus Greek Cypriots: 60,000 - 70,000

Citizens of the former Soviet Republic: 30,000

Christians who fled Lebanon: 15,000 - 20,000

Immigrants from Greece: 100,000

Asylum seeker Kurds: 2,500 - 3,000

Asylum seeker citizens from third countries: 9,500

Total of “Greek settlers in Cyprus”: approximately 230,000

According to the existing but unpublished Greek Cabinet Decision of 1964, any Greek citizen who has done his military service in Cyprus or served in the Greek National Army (Ethniki Fruro) automatically becomes a citizen of the Republic of Cyprus (Greek Cyprus).

For years one Greek regiment and two battalions of Greek Commandos were deployed on the island and thousands of Greek officers served in the Greek Cypriot National Guard. These privates and army officers, who change every two years, have, since 1964, automatically become citizens.

Most Greek Cypriots go to study in Greece, get married and return to Cyprus. Their partners also immediately become citizens.

The Pontus Greeks (Pontii) and citizens of the former Soviet republics were made citizens soon after they settled on the island from 1974 and 1982, respectively.

Opening their arms to the wealthy Christians who fled the war in Lebanon, the Greek Cypriots also made them citizens.

Why are only Turkish Cypriots consistently blamed for bringing in 40,000 settlers from Turkey, while the Greek Cypriots are not, although they have given citizenship to 230,000 non-Greek Cypriots and dramatically changed the demographic structure of the island?

References :Simerini, Greek Cypriot Newspaper, April 30, 2006; Mahi, Greek Cypriot Newspaper, Sept. 20, 2006; Simerini, Greek Cypriot Newspaper, Nov. 28, 2006; Politis, Greek Cypriot Newspaper Jan. 14, 2007; Politis, Greek Cypriot Newspaper, Feb. 6, 2007

Rizokarpasso
25 October 2007 at 15:35

MaryK

At last, a politician that is not afraid to speak the truth. Thank you Brian Coleman for having integrity and seeking to uphold human rights for all the people of Cyprus. Greek Cypriots have been denied access, use and enjoyment of their homes and properties in occupied Cyprus for the last 33 years, meanwhile the illegal occupiers are not only occupying but also building and selling off properties to which they have no entitlement.

As an indication of the inhumanity of the current illegal regime in the occupied north of Cyprus this month Turkey refused to allow a Greek Cypriot born in Rizokarpasso to be buried in the cemetary there, as was his wish; possibly because all the crosses in the cemetary have been broken, the little church and the graves desecrated and human bones scattered everywhere. There are still 264 enclaved Greek Cypriots in Rizokarpasso, a Greek Cypriot village in the Karpass peninsular, who are denied basic Human Rights by the illegal Turkish occupying regime and are intimidated daily by the illegal administration and the illegal settlers from Turkey. Rizokarpasso had 3,500 Greek Cypriots in 1974, of whom 2,500 were enclaved following the Turkish invasion and have now been reduced to 264 following numerous attacks, deaths, beatings and other uncivilized acts.

I could say a great deal more but I will just put forward some basic points:

1) The Cyprus Treaty of Guarantee, Nicosia, 16th August 1960, Article II states: "Greece, Turkey, and the United Kingdom, taking note of the undertakings of the Republic of Cyprus set out in Article I of the present Treaty, recognise and guarantee the independence, territorial integrity and security of the Republic of Cyprus, and also the state of affairs established by the Basic Articles of its Constitution.

Greece, Turkey and the United Kingdom likewise undertake to prohibit, so far as concerns them, any activity aimed at promoting, directly or indirectly, either union of Cyprus with any other State or partition of the island". The three Guarantor powers have failed in their Treaty obligations to Cyprus; in fact Turkey went against its own Treaty obligations invaded and is still occupying part of territory of The Republic of Cyprus with 43,000 Turkish troops.

2) Most of the Turkish Cypriots have left the occupied area and it is now inhabited mainly by illegal settlers and their offspring transported to Cyprus by Turkey, an act which is against Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention which forbids an occupying power from transferring part of its civilian population to occupied territory. Turkey, a NATO power has been allowed to disregard the Geneva Convention and is given much support by our British Government.

3) According to the 1960 Cyprus population survey the Greek Cypriot population was 77.1%, Turkish Cypriot population was 18.2%, Maronites and Armenians were 1.1%, others 3.7%. Since 1974 the transportation of over 150,000 Turkish settlers to colonise the occupied north and take over the Greek Cypriot homes and properties is a clear attempt to change the demography of Cyprus. Clearly our British Government places strategic self interest above adhering to an accepted code of conduct and upholding human rights.

4) Member of Parliament for Hendon, Andrew Dismore, in his letter, dated 13 th October 2006 to the Secretary General of the Council of Europe, Terry Davis, is very clear regarding the denial of Human Rights to the enclaved, which he observed first hand during his visit to Rizokarpasso in October 2006.

5) According to 1964 Land Registry Office Records, Greek Cypriots owned approximately 78% of the privately owned land in the territory now under Turkish occupation, while persons belonging to the Turkish Cypriot community owned approximately 21%.

6) Ethnic cleansing is condemned by all civilized countries, yet Turkey been allowed to ethnically cleanse the Greek Cypriots from their homes and properties in occupied north Cyprus. Approximately 150,000 Greek Cypriots fled for their lives when Turkey invaded Cyprus in 1974. Not all were successfull, e.g. Sysklipos, a small Greek Cypriot village in the Kyrenia mountains, which had 337 inhabitants has 23 missing persons as a result of the Turkish invasion, who didn't manage to escape and whose fate only the invading Turkish forces know. There are 1,476 missing Greek Cypriots, mainly civilians like those in Sysklipos.

stoneman
25 October 2007 at 15:55

Sol,

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Reports show a systematic destruction of not only Christian churches but also of other important heritage sites.

This tactic by Turkey is a long-established one. History has shown that first the Turks eliminate the people, then destroy their cultural heritage in order to deny the existence of the original people.

According to Orthodox Church records, about 500 churches have been destroyed or pillaged in the occupied north. The Church has already recovered, through a lengthy legal battle in America, priceless frescoes that were stolen from the occupied areas. Other efforts are underway to repatriate various religious relics.

Italian journalist Giovanni Ricciardi has just published a chronicle of the 1974 Turkish military invasion of Cyprus and its repercussions up to the recent past.

The largest part of the report describes the condition of Christian churches in occupied Cyprus and the destruction of other important cultural heritage sites.

Ricciardi also notes the destruction of non-Orthodox churches in the occupied area, belonging to Maronites, Armenians, and Catholics and stresses that if Turkey wants to join the European Union, it has to allow the repair and restoration of holy sites as a gesture of good will.

Similarly, Dr. Charalambos Chotzakoglou of the University of Athens has recently written on the illegal trafficking of antiquities and efforts to repatriate Cypriot treasures. The Professor of History of Byzantine Art at the University of Athens presented the results of the registration program of Christian churches in the occupied areas and, using photographic material, he chronicled the registration of the Christian monuments, the improper use of the churches and their conversion into barns, mosques and hotels.

Contrary to what you suggest, the most sacred Muslim shrine in the free areas of the Cyprus Republic, the Hala Sultan Tekke Mosque outside Larnaca, has recently been restored.

It really is about time the Turkish Cypriots stood up for themselves and spoke out about the injustice of the Turkish occupation, their marginalisation by Anatolian settlers, and their isolation as a result of an illegal occupation supposed to be for their benefit. It's very sad that few Turkish Cypriots seem capable of expressing some shame and alarm at what has been done to their homeland in the name of The Turkish 'peace operation' in Cyprus.

stoneman
25 October 2007 at 16:39

Jeyda writes: "Dear Mr Coleman, you seem to be uncomfortable with the Turkish settlers in the north but you fail to mention the Greek settlers in the south."

Do you mean the 230,000 Greek Cypriot refugees who were forcibly removed from their homes? I assume "settlers" is a strange Turkish euphemism for 'refugee' along with the 'peace operation' which has robbed and pillaged the north of Cyprus of its heritage and turned it into an Anatolian wasteland.

The Republic of Cyprus has always had thriving Armenian, Maronite, Turkish and Lebanese minorities. Until the Turkish invasion drove the Turkish Cypriots into isolation and mass exodus the Turkish Cypriots were the largest minority on the island.

The Anatolian settlers in north Cyprus were brought in not as legal migrants but as part of a systematic attempt to change the demographic character of north Cyprus. This is illegal under international law and a huge cause of bitterness to many Greek Cypriots whose homes lie in the north of the island.

To attempt to compare the systematic colonisation of tthe north of the island with the Republic of Cyprus's legal migration policies is absolutely shameless.

Why is the Turkish occupation regime only bringing in Turks to the north of Cyprus? Why not allow the Greek Cypriots who have property and land to return to their homes? Why not allow the Armenians and Maronites to return? Or is it only Turks who can live in northern Cyprus?

Sometimes you have to wonder if the Turkish Cypriots are really committed to a genuine reunification of the island or if they are content to live in a racially-pure Turkish statelet recognised by nobody...

YANNIS
25 October 2007 at 19:42

*After reading this article I have decided to join the Labour party.

*The Turkish troops have maintained peace on the island now for 33 glorious years; longest in the history of Cyprus. Hope they stay for ever.

*In 1974 the Greeks tried to extermeninate all the Turks on the island and anex it to Greece. They took a gamble and LOST. When you gamble and loose, the casino does not give you, your money back.

*We do not trust the Greeks. We want the Turkish troops to stay on the island to protect us from the aggressors in the South.

*The agression campaign is still going on to-day with the ambargoes. Given half the chance they are sure to resort to the military pactics and barbarisim they employed in 1974. The Turkish troops are there to make sure that this does not happen again.

*What are the British troops there for Mr Brian Coleman?

Sol
25 October 2007 at 20:01

Stoneman, Rather than offer vague "reports show" why not show us which reports? Who said it, what was their motivation?

Your statement that this is a well known Turkish tatic is not terribly credible since Christians Jews and Muslims lived for hundreds of years in relative peace in the Ottoman empire. In fact most of the Ottoman civil service was run by Greeks.

Today there are still many open and functioning Churchs in Istanbul or Ankara but no Mosques in Athens. What should we take from that?

Sol
25 October 2007 at 20:05

Stoneman

Academic reseach by the international peace research institute Oslo, and a House of Commons report put the number of Turkish settlers at around 35,000.

If Turks moving to Cyprus is colonisation then equally Greeks moving to Cyprus must also be colanisation, I fail to see the difference.

The UN did not appear to either, under the Annan plan which Greece among others backed.

stoneman
25 October 2007 at 21:48

Sol writes: "If Turks moving to Cyprus is colonisation then equally Greeks moving to Cyprus must also be colanisation, I fail to see the difference."

You're failure to see the difference is part of the problem. According to the Observer newspaper Turkish settlers from Anatolia are thought to number as many as 120,000 out of a population of 200,000. I notice you don't include the 40,000 Turkish troops in your figures.

Regardless of the numbers, I repeat the question: why bring Turkish settlers at all to the north of Cyprus when there are a quarter of million Greek Cypriot refugees originally from the north of the island? Why not allow the refugees to return to their homes in the north? I think we know the answer to that question: it would interfere with the idea of a racially pure Turkish statelet.

As for your refusal to recognize the systematic decescration of the north of Cyprus's cultural heritage this is typical of Turkey which seems to live in a state of infuriating denial about some of its most appalling abuses of humanity. It is unbending in never being wrong. To this day, the Armenian genocide never happened. There have been no admissions, no apologies and no compensation. For years the Turks refused to admit that Kurds even existed - there was no such thing, no Kurdish language, no Kurdish culture, nothing of all known evidence. Similarly, there has been no systematic and widespread desecration in north Cyprus, just the odd piece of 'vandalism' here and there. Such excuses would be laughable if the reality wasn't so appalling.

alexander
26 October 2007 at 00:18

This stuff about 200,000 Greek settlers, Cyprus granting citizenship to Greek soldiers and there being only 35,000 Turkish settlers on the island, is just mind-boggling. I can't believe I'm reading it. It's all made up. Just barefaced lies. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Don't Turks feel embarrassed coming out with this nonsense?

And as for the refusal to accept the evidence of the wanton destruction of Cyprus' cultural and artistic heritage in the Turkish occupied north, this is beyond shamelessness.

'The scourge [i.e. the Turkish invasion] has left its marks. It has struck Cyprus, the site of the most ancient Christian community on European soil, in its artistic, cultural, and religious treasury: stupendous Byzantine and Romanesque churches, imposing monasteries, mosaics and frescoes of inestimable value. It is a heritage that in the northern part of the island, under Turkish occupation, has been sacked, violated, and destroyed.'

Read the whole article by Luigi Geninazzi if you like:

http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/46544?&eng=y

There are hundreds of other articles and reports like it. The evidence is irrefutable. You make yourself look foolish by denying it.

YANNIS
26 October 2007 at 00:27

Mr Rent a Politician Adrian Colemean. I am absolutely disgusted by your values.

Obviously money and winning a few cheap votes comes very high up on your list, however safety and security comes on top of my list and the thousands of other Turkish and Greek Cypriots living in Cyprus.

The Peace Operation by the Turkish troops in 1974 brought long term security and stability to the Island. This is paramount to everything else. This in return brought prosperity to both communities for which they are grateful.

Both communities want the Turkish troops to stay on the island for the foreseeable future. Incidentally, we can understand why the Turkish and the Greek troops are on the island but can you explain to us what the British troops are doing there please?? In fact what are they doing in Iraq, Afghanistan etc??

If you can send troops to Falkland islands off the cost of Argentina, on the other side of the world to protect a handful of British citizens, then who the hell are you to criticise Turkey for coming to the rescue of his people in her own back-yard in 1974?

Turkey came across in 1974 to protect her people in her back-yard from a total massacre by the Greeks who wanted to annex it to Greece. She used her guarantor powers given to her by the 1960 constitution when Cyprus became independent from Britain. It was a legitimate and necessary operation.

May the Turkish troops stay on the island for another 100 years. As for you Mr Rent a Politician, if you were hoping that the Turkish Cypriots were now going to offer you a free holiday to get you on their side well tough because all you are gone get is two fingers up your……

Matt
26 October 2007 at 06:59

I think we need to deal with facts here. Why did the Turkish Cypriots set up a secret arms factory WHERE THEY MANUFACTURED OVER 18000 RIFLES? Why did they enlist several thousand Turkish Cypriots to swear allegiance to the motherland Turkey and the terrorist organisation TMT in the early sixties and all this BEFORE a single shot was fired between the two communities? This is all documented and confirmed by Rauf Denktash.

As far as European Turkey is concerned I have a question.

How can a country invade another country, occupy 37% of it’s territory, expel the indigenous population, bring in settlers to take their place, carry out widespread looting, rape, murder, illegally abduct and vanish hundreds of POWs, deliberately destroy the country’s 9000 year old cultural heritage, set up a pariah state that only they recognize demanding that everybody else do the same, and be possibly allowed to get away with all this?

Matt

JUSTICE FOR CYPRUS
26 October 2007 at 08:15

The Turkish posters here seem to of conveniantly forgotten the fact that any animosity towards the Turkish Cypriots may have something to do with the fact that in the ate fifties thay were part of a police force formed by the Brtish colonial government to control he Greek Cypriot police force. Whilst mentioning correctly the actions of the traitor NicosSampson and EOKA b' the Turkish posters appear to of forgotten to mention Rauf Denktash and his counter Turkish Cypriot group The TMT of corse the whiter than white Turkish would wouldn't they as they of course forget to mention that their alledged motherland always denies th Armenian genocide not to mention their current mistreatment of the Kurd. Whilst also telling us how WE the Greek Cypriots killed them in the early 60s (yes the early 60s not until 1974) they conveniantly again forget to mention the atroscities committed by the aformentioned TMT. Nor do they mention the bombing by the Turkish Airforce of a Greek Cypriot village using napalm. They also forget to mention that the TMT also killed their own people political rivals and tried to blame the Greek Cypriots. It seems that the Turkish/Turkish Cypriot posters here are the ones wih selective memories. All these things are fact not properganda the TMT still exists to keep Turkish Cypriot left winger pro unity supporters in check. Anybody who has visited Cyprus knows full well that mosques in the government south are protected buildings like te Sultan Tekke in Larnaca o just who is talking propergada. For those of you who claim that the INVASION of 1974 was an intervention please tell me how many Turkish Cypriots were killed between 15-20 of July? none sowhat were they intervening in and how did they manage to prepare a full invation force and invade in 5 days? what bull . As for the 1960 treaty of Guarentee it states that any one of the three guarentor governments ie UK, Turkey and Greece could intervene but only to ''protect the integrity and identity and defending the legally elected government'' his did not entitle Turkey to ''bomb'' Greek Cypriot Village in 1964. It did not entitle Turkey to smuggle weapons onto Cyprus to arm theTMT, (The fact is that it has always been known that Turkey had deisgns on Cyprus) Nor did it entitle Turkey to invade killing 1000s mostly civiians my Grandmother included. Nor does it entitle them to form a state which is illeagal. In December 1974 Archbishop Makarios had returned to power the ''legally''' elected leader this should under the treaty of guarentee of signalled the removal of Turksh forces from Cyprus under the terms of the treaty. So how does killing 1000s of people displaing 250,000 people including Turkish Cypriots occupying 37% by force constitute an ''intervenion'' ? how does that protect the itegrity and identity and Territories of

the ''Republic of Cyprus'' all three guarentor powers breached the treaty and just because a British MP decides enough s enough you decide to deride him. They say 'two wrongs don't make a right' . In Cyprus there is a village which belies the Turkish and Turkish Cypriot leaders claim that the two communities cannot live together its called Pila of course there is also Harringay and PalmersGreen, Wood Green,Enfield and Camberwell in London werethis alo applies so please shut your properganda gabage down. Both sides killed i the 1960s both sides killed its own political opponents and Just as EOKA'B existed so to did the TMT and just as Enosis (unity wih Greece) existed so to did Taxsim (unity with Turkey) those are facts. But its over 40 years since so accept your side is no innocent in all this leave your selective memory behind and move on. As for the BBC we know that is contrlled by the UK government and we also know is stance of total support of Turkey. As for the Pro Turkish Brits on here wha exctly do yu base your opinions on? Being there and experiencing it? reading Turkish Properganda? we already know with Armenia they can never admit to indescretions. Or perhaps you bought property belongin to Greek Cypriots illeagally? whatever yu cannot not know the truth. Finally if you believe that the 18% Turkish Cypriots should dictate to the 82% majority ie Greek, Armenianand MaoniteCypriotsthen perhps you will also accept the '' Jamaican Republic of South London'' or maybe the ''Islamic Republic of Bradford''.

If thats not acceptable how about the ''Hindi Republic of Brent'' and remember democracy is one man one vote. Finally on this MP i would point out that whilst touting for Greek Cypriot votes lets not forget the about the Turks and Turkish Cypriots living in his constituancy so the arguement he wants to win the G/Cs votes s flawed a is the claim he illegally assisted in banning advertising travel/holidays to the so called TRNC is rubbish how can you sell hoidays to an illegal unrecognised state not to mention the illeagal entry. When you have facts talk until then don't spout the gabage you fed by the Turkish Properganda machine or are you also saying that the Armenian genocide didn't take place either? and are you saying that Turkey has a perfect human rights record were everybody is equal?

JUSTICE FOR CYPRUS
26 October 2007 at 08:39

To the Conservative MP firstly how do you xpect the Greek Cypriots to accept a plan which expected the disbanding of the Cypriot naitonal Guard whilst the Turkish would keep the invsion force on the island fo some years before starting a slow and gradual withdrawl. So who would then protect the Greek Cypriots without an army? the pro Turkish British ho as guarentors have failed in all there obligations for over 30 years despite continuing to keep heir bases on the island and also showing no loyalty to a mmber of the British Commonwealth not to mention a cuntry which suplied 1000s of troops in the second world war on the sid of the British. Or perhaps the UN who are controlled by the USA another pro Turkey country, afterall how many resolutions have been passed but remained unenforced against Turkey. Or perhaps NATO anoth USA controlled body that has Turkey as a member so tell me sir who will protect the Greek Cypriots? as for seeking restitution from that puppet court in the North which is run by Turkey well are they anymore likely to be fair bearing thei lack of adhearance to countless decisions by the European Court of Human rights? As for seeking restitution through the British Courts i believe under EU law that is an option open to ALL EU member stateresidents but where else in Europe is this more neccessary. Itsobvious some British peope and MPs cannot forgive having to give Cyprus its independance even after all these years. It seems that were the British and USA Governments are concerned human rights only exist were there is oil, and international law only applies when the British or USA see fit and does not apply to the actions of Israel or Turkey. May i suggest that if you prefer Greek Cypriots didn't use the UK courts you then pressure your own Government to do more to dissuade British people from buyng property they aready KNOW its not their right to buy or the right of the seller to sell. Instead of wantng cheap properties for your robbing countrymen and women you should be more worried about the human rights of the legal owners. How many holidays have you had in Northen Cyprus?

JUSTICE FOR CYPRUS
26 October 2007 at 08:51

SOL what are you on? The Turkish Cypriots moved into the mountains of their own accord setting up enclaves so that they could cut up the island they did this with weapons smuggled in by Turkey and what about the TMT. What the Hell are you talking about 1810? and what does that have to do with Greek Cypriots who at that time were under the Turkish yolk. We keep hearing about ''They this they that'' whatabout ''we did this we did that'' Armenia, Kurdistanand the current Kurds the world knows your race but you are allowed to get away with far worse than you claim happened to Turks bcause your important to the Yanks. Sampson actually put out a message in 1974 that Turkish Cypriots would not be harmed. When The Turkish armyarrived radio messages were put out by Denktash tat any T/Cs remaining in the South would pay a heavy price. Did you expect to go into G/c villages killing as the TMT had done in the 60s without a response. It was not long ago that Denktash had reformed the TMT o contrl his own people and also imported the ''Grey Wolves'' to do likewise, again selective memory or knowledge YOURSIE WERE NO INNOCENTS AND THEY ALSO KILLED THEIR OWN IF THEY WERE SOLCIALIST OR POLITICAL RIVALS THEY DID IT IN HE 60S ANDSTILL DO NOW.

Emina
26 October 2007 at 11:16

Really sad and depressing to read all this crap Brian Coleman should be reported to Commission For Racial Equality for inciting these fools on both sides to vomit out all this venom

voicecomcy
26 October 2007 at 12:58

Bravo Brian!

So many lies in the World, it is quite refreshing to hear someone speak the truth. Who said that in in our times merely speaking the truth is a revolutionary act? Maybe Mark Twain.

What we are all facing in the in the Cyprus issue is ruthless Turkish Propaganda. Bicoommunal problems they say? There were none, until Turkey and Great Brittain decided to protect and enhance their interests on the island!

Turkish & foreign interests that have used and abused the Turkish Cypriot 18% minority - most of which has emigrated to other European countries - in order to invade, kill, pillage, occupy half of Cyprus to date, uproot 200.000 Greek refugees, and bring to Cyprus 40.000 Turkish troops and 150.000 turkish settlers.

Today the Turkish Cypriots, estimated at around 80.000, are truly a minority in the occupied North. So, was the 1974 murdurous invasion a peace keeping mission? If so, why do they still need 40.000 troops and 150.000 settlers?

Who is occupying who? Who is changing the demographics of Cyprus? And the biggest lie yet! Turkish Cypriot Isolation. Come and have a look at the brand new BMWs and Mercedes luxury cars with Turkish Cypriot license plates outside Marks & Spencers in the free part of Nicosia! They have pillaged our land in 1974 and shipped whatever goods they found to Turkey, and now they are selling the land to unsuspecting Europeans!

If there is a God, whether he is called Christ or Allah, these Turks will pay!

Michalis Mavromichalis

www.voice.com.cy

Sol
26 October 2007 at 13:03

alexander

These are the facts, see

This ties in with the Foreign Affairs Committee of the British House of Commons in their report of May 7, 1987, said that foreign observers, including the British Government, estimated the Turkish settlers in the north at about 35.000. Necatigil, Zaim M.; White, Gillian M. (1993). "Human Rights in Cyprus", The Cyprus Question and the Turkish Position in International Law. Oxford University Press, 139. ISBN 0-198-25846-1.

http://www.prio.no/files/manual-import/beyond_numbers_reduce...

Unfortunatley people tend to hide behind their own proaganda. (on both sides)

voicecomcy
26 October 2007 at 13:08

Emina dear,

You are so blind you do not see your own folly. You think this is a racist issue? Far from it. It is a human rights issue!

To prove it to you, let's forget the labels "Greek" and "Turk" and say we are all "Martians."

I still want my land and my house that was taken away when they "Martian" Army killed my father, raped my father and made us all refugees in our own land. Does your racist theory present a solution? I support your right to your land, do you support mine?

Best Regards

Michalis Mavromichalis

Sol
26 October 2007 at 13:10

It seems many of the supports of this article are unable to admit the terrible suffering that Turkish Cypriots went though.

How then do they expect Turks to reconcile with them.

Colemans article was biased and divisive and far from bringing the two communities together is further pulling them apart.

I say have a truth and reconcilliation commision from Cyprus. That may well be the only way to reconcile the two sides.

Sol
26 October 2007 at 13:19

Michalis Mavromichalis, equally those who suffered on the other side want the same thing. Fundermentally ever one wants the same thing.

I think one of the stumbleing block is that Turkish Cypriots want to return to land as of 1963 whereas Greeks want the land distributed as of 1974.

What do you think?

YANNIS
26 October 2007 at 14:33

(* It is incredible what level some people are prepared to drop to for a free holiday and some cheap votes.

(* Mr Rent-a-Politician Coleman, Turkish Peace keeping force in Cyprus has brought peace, stability and security to the troubled island of Cyprus for now over three decades; the longest in its history.

(* Peace, security and stability are PARAMONUNT to anything else.

(* Under this glorious peace, both sides have flourished and are flourishing economically, culturally etc.

(* Both the Turkish and Greek communities on the island want this situation to continue for the foreseeable future. TURKISH PEACE KEEPING FORCES ARE STAYING

(* Peace and stability creates the conditions in which other problems can be tackled and solved one by one. You cannot put cart before the horse.

(* Today rent-a-politician, tomorrow rent what I wonder??!! I hope the Greek Cypriots and the Conservative party see what charlatan you are and kick you to touch pretty soon.

YANNIS
26 October 2007 at 15:01

Come come Mr Mavromichalis aren’t you over-dramatising things a little? Turkish troops raped your father???????!!!!!!!!! Martians in Cyprus!!?? Is this another Greek tragedy or myth you are writing????

Wake up and smell the Turkish coffee Mr Mavromichalis.

Matt
26 October 2007 at 18:04

Well Yiannis(?) I think you really need to show some sensitivity here. I don't know if Mavromichalis father was raped but I do know that other peoples fathers (yes fathers) were raped. It really is a shame that due to political expedience Turkey is allowed to get away with all these horrendous crimes and to the extent that documented facts are just thrown in the garbage can.

Admittedly its a bit difficult in a country where they throw you in jail or are murdered by grey wolves for insulting 'Turkishness' to say much but what exactly will your countrymen ever admit to?

YANNIS
26 October 2007 at 20:51

•My dear fellow Matt hundreds of Turkish Cypriots were massacred and buried alive in mass graves. Children shot dead in the arms of their parents in the bathroom of their homes by the Greeks. And you are talking about Greek men being raped by the Turkish army!!!!!!! Pathetic!!! I am truly sorry. What planet are you on? Martian perhaps???

•Turkish troops are amongst one of the best disciplined in the world. They have maintained peace on the island now for 33 glorious years. AND NOT A SINGLE CASE OF MAN RAPE , GREEK or OTHERWISE.

•I advise you to check your facts and try harder to separate fact from fiction. What nonsense, Turkish troops raping Greek men??!! As I have pointed out, 33 years of glorious peace AND NO RAPE. We are happy with our peace keepers and they are staying.

•I am sorry MAD but this mud did not stick, try another; or rather not if they are going to be as pathetic as this one.

Liz
26 October 2007 at 23:17

Mr Coleman, according to the vision of the Conservative Party, "it is important to strengthen the ties that bind society". Do you think your article has achieved that? As a councillor, you should be concentrating on local issues and harmonising relations between the different communities in your constituency. Being insensitive and insulting one

community and creating tension is not the way to go and many of your Barnet residents including myself are very disappointed in your irresponsible actions.

As for the Greek Cypriots who want to go back to their properties, stop wasting your money on British politicians and councillors and pressurise your leaders in Cyprus to sit down and agree a settlement Plan with the Turkish Cypriots. You are barking up the wrong tree and the likes of Coleman, Dismore, Villiers and Vis are the ones who are benefiting.

Around 300 inhabitants of Vroisha village (Yagmuralan), at the skirts of Troodos mountains, who were driven out of their land in 1964 and whose

village has been totally destroyed by Greek militia have been told by the Greek Cypriot courts that they have to wait for a solution to the Cyprus problem before asking for compensation or restitution. Turkish

Cypriots cannot return to their homes if they choose to either; not in Paphos, not in Limassol, not anywhere in the south! So, I suggest the Greek Cypriots stop feeling sorry for themselves and come to the

negotiating table instead of going to rallies in Trafalgar Square and Morphou and pouring money into the various political parties. They have at least the property commission in the North that is dealing with compensation and restitution cases in the absence of a settlement. There is no equivalent to deal with Turkish property occupied in the South.

YANNIS
27 October 2007 at 12:51

•What CRAP, yet again, from our Mr Rent-a-Politician Coleman?

•As Liz and Emina say this article has done nothing to encourage the Turkish and Greek communities to resolve their differences and work towards a common goal which must be: FINDING A JUST and PERMANENT POLYTICAL SOLUTION to THE PROBLEM.

•Thanks to the Turkish Peace Keeping Force on the island, we have now established security, peace and stability in the region which is PARAMOUNT to everything else. Now comes the political solution.

•Political solution brings more stability and creates the right conditions in which complex problems like land and property issues can be settled.

•There is a logical order to these things. You cannot solve the land and property issues without having a political solution AND you cannot have a political solution without establishing FIRST=> Security, Peace and Stability on the island.

•Thanks to the Turkish Peace Keeping Forces we have achieved the latter and now time has come for formulating a Political Solution.

•This is where the efforts should be concentrated on now. Trying to polarise the two communities by pouring petrol on the smouldering fires is not the way to create the necessary conditions for this process to take place.

•Mr Coleman take a jump and stop stirring things up in my country. We want the Cyprus problem to be solved, not another war started. But then how are you going to get your free, all expenses paid holiday???? You disgusting man.

Konstantas
27 October 2007 at 22:02

If Mr. Coleman's views were determined from being invited and

hosted to Cyprus, then it should have been possible to show the

bias in his views.

Where is the bias in the statement: "Greek heritage is destroyed

in the Turkish occupied part of Cyprus"?

Where is the bias in mentioning the Armenian Genocide, or the

struggle of the Kurdish people for recognition, peace and democracy?

Konstantas
27 October 2007 at 22:11

Mr. Coleman spoke about the destruction of Greek heritage in the

Turkish occupied area of Cyprus. Responding to these, many

discussants mentioned other crimes, or so claimed to be, against

Turkish Cypriots. Thus, they appear to think that, in the face

of one crime, another one is justified.

This is a gross violation of any concept of justice, and any

civilized behanior expected among persons, nations or ethnic

groups.

We realise that not all Turkish people think this way. There are

Turks with democratic views and stands. But one important point

still remains: Turkey justifies its policy on exactly this kind

of gross violation of any concept of justice, and all the rules

expected to hold among persons, nations or ethnic groups.

Tragicaly, aspects of the above described chauvinism of the

Turkish policy is often shared by Turkish democrats --or, in any

case, Turks that they should be considered as democrats due to

their stand on many other matters and situations.

Our struggle against the Turkish occupation of Cyprus aims for

the following:

-- withdrawal of all Turkish troops and Brittish bases

-- withdrawal of all settlers

-- return of all the refugees to their homes

-- human rights for all the citizens of Cyprus, irrespective of

ethnic origin, religion or whatever.

-- no "guarantor rights" of any kind

Apparently, establishment of the European Union's commune aquee

is unavoidable, as Cyprus is an EU member. Commune aquee should

also establish human rights beyond any reasonable doubt. These

rights include the following:

-- freedom of movenment, for all in all the area of the Republic

-- freedom to own a property, for all in all the area of the

Republic

-- freedom to establish a residence, for all in all the area of

the Republic

EITHER ALL OF THESE, OR IT WILL BE AN APARTHEID.

Currently, a democratic person should support the implementation

of what came to be known as the agreement of 8 July, between

President Papadopoulos and Mr. Talat.

Chris
28 October 2007 at 02:07

Just to clarify the point of a certain poster above (who is no doubt masquerading under a false Greek name) regarding the discipline of a certain army, The Sun on 8 August 1974, published the following under the shocking front cover heading "BARBARIANS":

''Sun reporter Iain Walker sends a shock report from Cyprus on the Turkish invaders

'My fiance and six men were shot dead. The Turkish soldiers laughed at me and then I was raped.

GREEK CYPRIOT GIRL AGED 20

'The Turkish soldiers cut off my father's hands and legs. Then they shot him while I watched.

GREEK CYPRIOT WOMAN AGED 32

'They shot the men. My friend's wife said 'Why should I live without my husband?' A soldier shot her in the head.

GREEK CYPRIOT FARMER AGED 51

A HORRIFYING story of atrocities by the Turkish invaders of Cyprus emerged today. It was told by weeping Greek Cypriot villagers rescued by United Nations soldiers.

THEY TOLD of barbaric rape at gunpoint ... and threats of instant execution if they struggled.

THEY TOLD of watching their loved ones tortured and shot.

The villagers are from Trimithi, Karmi and Ayios Georhios, three farming communities west of the holiday town of Kyrenia, directly in the path of the Turkish Army...

... "Another Turkish soldier who was watching us had a nine-month-old baby in his arms and, trying to save myself, I shouted that the baby was mine.

''But they laughed at me and threw the baby to the ground. I was then raped and I fainted soon after..."

Bear in mind that the above is coming from the press of Britain, a country that has a virtually totally pro-Turkish press.

Emina
28 October 2007 at 12:18

Mr Mavromichalis

My land is currently in the possesion and full use of my fellow Cypriots in the south (and there is alot of it and in one of the most valuable parts of Cyprus) I was born in the UK so therefore i have never possessed illegal land in the North. But i am not bitter if my parents homeland was at peace than the land to me wouldnt mean a thing. When my parents came here they suffrered great financial hardship when in reality they were landrich now my father has passed away on paper I am also landrich but what i never had i dont miss why cry for something i didnt have yesterday and may never be returned to me. It is not my home or my mothers home anymore "home" is not bricks mortar. olive trees or pasture land it is far more than that it is the people that live there the familiar faces banter and warmth, family and security. Dhali were our ancestoral land is can never be my home again the events of 1963 and 1974 made sure of that for me i wasnt even born then. I f you was alive and experienced the tragedies at first hand i have no right to push my view on you but i will only say to you that as my mother always told me her home only exists in her memory now and thats where it is for you when you go there you will not find home simply bricks mortar and earth. It may have financial value but i could call it "home" i wish it were different.

The point i was making was that Mr Coleman has no right to encourage the community to point the finger at each other the finger is far better pointed at his governments foriegn policy of the time who is he to judge. Cyprus has an Orthodox Christain heritage as well as an Islamic heritage and to deny that or even ignore it is racism by no other name.

Emina
28 October 2007 at 12:31

Unsuspecting Europeans !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mr Mavromichalis thats an absolute joke. You really are existing in an ignorant vacumn. Just google North Cyprus properties and click every link and you will see that every property sold without Turkish pre 74 verified title deeds is listed with the slogan "BUYER BEWARE" explaining that there is no original pre 74 title deed and the discrepancy between prices of legally owned land and greek land is so great that a 5 year old couldnt be fooled. Wake up and smell the Cypriot coffee you silly man you think that a buch of Cypriot peasants can fool British property buyers. They just want a cheap slice of paradise we are the fools not them. I suppose also that you feel that a Donkey is more fitting for a Turkish Cypriot than a BMW.

YANNIS
28 October 2007 at 12:46

•Mr Konstantan, my dear fellow Mr Konstantan. What are we to do with you?? Are you seriously suggesting that we believe what rubbish the Sun newspaper publishes? The Sun newspaper published Elvis was still alive!!?? Elvis was on the Moon!!?? Come come now you are not seriously expecting us to believe that ARE YOU??

•What you are writing is another Greek tragedy and myth my friend, which you are very good I must say.

•Stop loosing your Elgin marbles Mr Konstantan and wake up to realities. The reality is that=> TURKISH PEACE KEEPING FORCE HAS MAINTAINED PEACE ON THE ISLAND NOW FOR 33 GLORIOUS YEARS, AND NOT A SINGLE GREEK MAN GOT RAPED.

•TURKISH PEACE KEEPING FORCE brought stability, prosperity and security to booth communities. Both communities want the Turkish Peace keeping Force to stay.

•I suggest you stop reading the Sun Comic and go and ask Mr rent-a-politician Coleman for your marbles back.

•When Mr Coleman returns your marbles that he stole then we will listen to his and your arguments.

•I have no time to argue with a charlatan who made a profession out of it and a chap who is still reading comics and cannot tell fact from fiction. Wake up and smell the Turkish coffee Mr Konstantan. Have a good day my compatriot. Don’t let charlatans like Mr Coleman divide and rule.

Suzy
28 October 2007 at 12:55

I guess Brian also ‘thinks’ he knows what happened to Maddy McCann.

Armenian Genocide? Don’t you think it is a little premature to sentence an Empire based on hearsay? Are you in possession of some evidence that the rest of the world hasn’t had a chance to see? So far, there is no evidence, historical conclusion or competent court judgment to define that the tragic 1915 events constitutes 'genocide'. All the evidence brought by ‘genocide’ claimants are proved to be false and forged and nothing more than hearsay stories. What desperation to condemn a nation!

YANNIS
28 October 2007 at 19:57

•It is quite clear to me that the poor Greeks have completely lost their marbles (Elgin) and that’s why they are talking CRAP. Oh dear, oh dear…..

•This is not surprising because Mr Coleman has stolen them.

•Mr Coleman who has stolen the Greek heritage and archaeological treasures is now trying to lecture us on the subject, WHAT A HIPOCRIT!?

•Mr Coleman has got thousands of troops all over the world, including Cyprus, yet Turkey cannot have a peace keeping force to protect her own people in her own back yard, WHAT A HIPOCRIT?!

•Mr Coleman, give the Elgin marbles back to the Greeks and pull your troops out of Cyprus, then we might take your arguments seriously.

Mary T
28 October 2007 at 23:25

I think instead of attacking Mr Coleman the young Turkish Cypriots, who seem to lack education and good manners let alone historical truth, should complain to the U.S. Rep. Frank Pallone who quite rightly in a letter to the State Department on the 11th October 2007 urges them “to strongly condemn a new penal code adopted by the Turkish Government late last month that would punish Turkish citizens or groups with up to ten years in prison if they confirm the fact of the Armenian Genocide in Ottoman Turkey or call for the end of the Turkish occupation of Northern Cyprus.

In a letter to Secretary of State Colin Powell, the New Jersey congressman said that the new Section 306 of Turkey's criminal code not only hinders improved relations between the Republic of Armenia and Turkey, but it is also an imprudent step on the part of a nation that is desperately trying to establish an image of having a free and democratic society.

Pallone wrote that Turkey's action represents a dramatic display of the Turkish government's campaign to deny the Armenian Genocide and further inhibit a resolution to the Turkish occupation of Northern Cyprus.

"Section 306 of the new criminal code does nothing to remove barriers to bilateral cooperation and lower the level of distrust and tension in this critically important region," Pallone wrote in his letter to Secretary Powell. "I urge you and the State Department to condemn this oppressive provision in the criminal code and do everything that is in your power to ensure that the government of Turkey, our NATO ally- cease to inhibit the rights of its citizens; remove its troops from Northern Cyprus; come to terms with its own history; and finally start living up to the expectations that the United States has of free and democratic nations."

Pallone also believes the Turkish Government's action toward Cyprus is not consistent with the State Department's own misguided belief that Turkey did everything possible to end the thirty-year illegal occupation of Cyprus when it supported a United Nation's plan that would have reunified the island nation.

The New Jersey congressman believes Turkey's latest action proves the government in Turkey remains supportive of the continued illegal occupation of the northern end of Cyprus”.

Emina
29 October 2007 at 00:15

I think you seem to lack education and good manners we are Turkish Cypriots not Turkish Citizens theres a difference or hadnt you noticed. And Mr Pallone should concern himself with the Iraqi genocide, the genocide in Vietnam, Hiroshima, Nagasaki not to mention the US funded slaughters of the left in various latin American states, Greece and of course lest we forget Cyprus!. I think you should fill the distinct gap in your education before casting judgement on others.

YANNIS
29 October 2007 at 00:36

God damn it woman. Ten years in jail for speaking your mind in a democracy!!! I am frightened.

JUST WHERE DOU YOU GET THESE LITTLE HITLERS???!!!!!

JUST WHERE DO YOU GET THESE NUT CASES, or should I say FLAKES??

I am not going to be provoked by this utter vile crap.

Wake up and small the Turkish coffee mom. THE TURKISH PEACE KEEPING FORCES ARE STAYING IN NORTH CYPRUS. Both communities want this. You can pull your troops out from Iraq if you want. They are not there to siphon the petrol by any chance, are they mom??? Of course not.

We love our Kurd and Armenian brothers mom. We will find a way through our misunderstandings. Don’t you trouble your little mind with such matters.

Emina
29 October 2007 at 02:00

You talk of coming to terms with own history well perhaps the US should lead by example. The Armenian Genocide and yes it was a Genocide was committed by the Ottoman Empire a defunct entity or had you not quite realised yet, Modern Turkey is a separate entity. The word empire is a concept that can only now be applied to the US. Let me re-educate you madam (thats manners although accoring to you i lack in education) have you ever heard of something called the Ford letter you must have since you know so much about Cyprus. It was a letter in which President Ford informed Turkey in writing that it catergorically prohibited them from invading Cyprus in the mid sixties. This did not happen in 74 Turkey was given the green light by the US to invade Cyprus. Kissinger accepts he was made aware of the impending coup against Makarios well before it happened and did nothing to stop furthermore the US funded the Greek Millitary junta one of the most brutal regimes in modern history. In his short period in power Nikos Sampson was referred to by Henry Kissinger as "president" a title he had never afforded to Makarios simply refering to him as Archbishop ! oh and the Red Priest and Castro of the Meditteranean! so i will come to terms with my history and the Americans can come to terms with theirs hows that for a deal!!!!

Unfortunately when you refer to historic truth you have to be very careful because everybodies truth is different in 1963 Turkish Cypriots (accepted historically as the first post ww2 attempt at ethnic cleansing)were slaughtered in 1974 Greek and Turkish Cypriots were slaughtered (yes both) one tragedy is not more true than the other both happened and to deny either is false and malicious and makes one question sthe motives of anyone who would deny either of these heinous crimes .

Matt
29 October 2007 at 13:54

Dear Yianni(?) and Emina

I don't blame you and your compatriots for insisting that black is white. Unfortunately the Turkish establishment is geared towards brainwashing their citizens and instilling ultra nationalistic views much akin to what Hitler and the third Reich did. The few who can't be brainwashed or who have the courage to speak out are at best prosecuted by the Turkish state using ridiculous laws to prevent people from 'telling the truth as they are 'insulting Turkishness' . Alternatively they are killed by young fanatics who are then glorified by arresting policemen proudly posing next to them.

No matter how many names you call me Yianni or how many insults you throw at me or other people on this forum the truth is the truth whether you like it or not.

As for you Ms Emina you should realise that taking someones property by the force of arms and then issuing your own title deeds does not make that property saleable. Who has verified the title deeds the thief? If things are as you say then why has the so-called compensation committee been set up by Turkey? Isn't this in itself an admission that Greek Cypriot property in the north still belongs to the rightful owners? Your land in the south Ms Emina has not been sold to anybody and if you were to move to the south as a citizen of the recognized republic of Cyprus then you could claim it. As for BMWs and donkeys you don't have to take Mr Mavromichalis word for it come and see for yourself - its a free country.

Emina
29 October 2007 at 14:22

What are you talking about are you suggesting that all land in the North is Greek, How silly are you really ! and i am not justifying the fact that the greek land is sold this is wrong of course it is am simply saying that the Europeans who buy are aware of what they are doing they are not innocent they are as guilty as the ones who sell. I would never pay money for property that is not rightfully mine. I have seen for myself but the issue is not about what cars people drive why is that the issue Mr Mavromichalis is suggesting that the only reason whay a Turk would drive a BMW is if he sold illegal land !!!!!!!! If you read my statement i refer to PRE 74 Turkish owned titled deeds issued by the British colonial government and the Republic of Cyprus. Do not make assumptions about my views when i have made it quite clear that i am not defending the Turkish state. You seem to want to beleive that all Turkish Cypriots are as chauvenistic, prejudiced and illinformed as you and I assure you that we have our own fair share of people like you as you can see above and i am not fortunately one of you I beleieve in a peacful solution. You and your looney fellow Cypriots Greek and Turkish Cypriot should get together scream and shout your evil venom amongst yourselves leave the rest of us with our rationality and sanity. How has anything i have said even been construed as nationalist that is a word that can only describe you so get a life because people in Cyprus dont care what fools like you think or even for that matter what i think. My land in the south has been sold and built on and a knock down price check the rules Mr Matt it is also sold at knock down prices but the government gets the cash

YANNIS
29 October 2007 at 18:11

•Let me bring the focus back on the main issue. Our Greek friends have lost their marbles(Elgin) and are therefore talking crap.

•Our Mr Coalman is the culprit. He stole the marbles. The priceless Greek heritage and historic treasures have been stolen by Mr Coleman and needs to be returned.

•My friend Mr Mavromichalis and the other Greek friends want their marbles back. And so they should. I will try to help you my friends.

•Now Mr Coleman hand over the marbles(Elgin), the world famous Greek historic treasures that you stole in broad day-light. What are you playing at?? This is really not cricket old boy. Mr Mavromichalis is the rightful owner of these mavroyerimos. You havn’t sold them and bought yourself a Bently have you???

•The Turks are friendly, honest and hard-working. Left alone and unprovoked, they get on very well with Kurds, Armenians, Greeks etc as we witness in London and elsewhere. So stop stirring up hatred to cause problems for personal gains Mr Coleman. You have a responsibility to society. You have to lead by example. So hand over the Greek historic treasures that you stole to Mr Mavromichalis and we wouldn’t ask questions. Then, and only then, we can start discussing the other issues.

Oner
29 October 2007 at 22:21

For those, who keep on talking about the so-called “Armenian genocide” without any proof or evidence I suggest they read the report of Mr Hovannez Katchaznouni presented to the 1923 Congress of the Tashnaksutyun Party, which was held in Bucharest. In this report Mr Katchaznouni calls the event of 1915 as war and openly states that they were used by the imperialist powers wishing to divide the Ottoman Empire.

For those, who do not know; Mr Hovannez Katchaznouni was a founding member of the Tashnaksutyun Party and was also its leader. He was also the first prime minister of the state of Armenia, which was established in July of 1918.

Oh, by the way you may not be able to access the Armenian archives as they are not open to anyone and kept behind locked doors, whereas Ottoman archives are easily accessible.

But you can find Mr Hovannez Katchaznouni’s writings in Lenin Library in Moscow.

To Kounoupi
30 October 2007 at 22:06

Next the Turks on this site will be saying that the dog ate their homework! Don't you all feel embarassed trotting out all this rubbish? Grow up and face facts..Turkey has been guilty of genocide in respect of the Armenians, the Pontic Greeks, the Smyrna Greeks, the Assyrians, the Cypriots and the Kurds. We all wait with interest to see which non Turkic ethnic group will be the next to suffer. Will it be the Pomaks, Alawites, Laz or Arabs?? You would be treated more seriously if you face up to your terrible crimes against humanity and apologised. But to do that admits guilt and then the issue of reparations comes into play.....

Mike Pagomenos
31 October 2007 at 00:01

To the denialists of the Genocide of the Christians in the Ottoman Empire:

Take a good look at the collection of original photographs made by Armin Wegner (a German soldier in Turkey at the time). They alone are conclusive proof of the systematic murder of Christians (the majority were Armenians) in the Ottoman Empire.

Alternatively, refer to:

"The Treatment of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire, 1915-1916, Documents Presented to Viscount Grey of Falloden by Viscount Bryce. Uncensored Edition." ISBN 0-9535191-5-5

Unfortunately, that treatment continued to 1923 and was repeated again in Constantinople in 1955 and again in Cyprus from 1974.

Denialists need to stop ignoring Bryce and Toynbee's "Key to Names of Persons" (a supporting publication).

How the Turks think that they can get away with denying the Genocide of the Christians when the homes of the evicted Armenians and Greeks were sold en masse in Turkish newspapers (all well archived) is beyond belief. The Turks have no shame and no guilt conscience.

It is also well documented during the Greek War of Independence that the Turks unashamedly collected skulls as trophies and displayed leaflets with photographs of their murdered victims in shop fronts to make sure that everybody knew what Turks were capable of.

How can the Turks unashamedly deny the Genocide when the skulls were accumulated as trophies and piled high and photographed for souvenirs.

The Turks marched unarmed Christians in to the Syrian desert until they died of thirst, starved or marched to their deaths over cliffs.

We all know what Turks are capable of and they will once again demonstrate their capabilities in northern Iraq.

Denying the Armenian Genocide is a crime against humanity in itself. The first Genocide of the 20th Century has already been confirmed by numerous countries and is well documented.

"My study of the genocide that had been committed in Turkey in 1915 brought home to me the reality of Original Sin." --- Arnold J. Toynbee, Acquaintances (1967)

It makes no difference how long ago the Genocide happened. It is no less of a Genocide.

Likewise, similar behaviour repeated in 1955, and from 1974 is no less excusable. Nor is the continued ethnic and cultural cleansing of northern Cyprus.

Emina
31 October 2007 at 01:56

its really hilarious but very telling that the looney nationalists choose to respond to and goad each other rather than addressing the actual issues which is whether Mr Coleman as a representative of the former imperial masters of Cyprus responsible for the deaths of thousands of Greek Cypriots during the anti-colonial struggle has any right to pass judgement why do you not ask him to apologise before you pay his ticket and 5star hotel bills you had better put him up in the best accomodation or better still buy him a house in Paralimni before the temptation proves too much and a demon Turk fools him with a cheap illegal property in the North keep your eye on him because a free plate of souvla in Turkish Kebab shop might turn him. Actually i might phone and offer him a slap up table for 4 in EFES in Great Portland Street on me might do the trick you never know! (tarama, Houmous, Tzaziki the full works)

Fanoulla Argyrou
31 October 2007 at 13:12

This is another reply to all those lies, distortions and propaganda by the Turks to cover up their crimes against the GreekCyrpiots in order to promote their expansionist policies over Cyprus. (Posted by Fanoulla Argyrou). The following circulated widely in Dec 2006.

Allegations have been spreading through propaganda from Turkey and their allies, regarding the so-called “isolation” of Turkish Cypriots by the Government of Cyprus. For thirty years, 1974 till 2004, there was no mention of “isolation” of the Turkish Cypriots, which then was a reality. After the referendum, Turkey started propagating rumors about isolation. Do the facts support this allegation?

Turkey invaded Cyprus on the 20th of July 1974, after a coup by Greek Junta on the 15th of July 1974. The Turkish invasion started on the 20th of July, as a “peace making operation” and is still on going reached through the continued occupation of the northern part of Cyprus. More than 6.000 Greek Cypriots were killed (1% of the population) or are missing and 200.000 (30%) became refugees. All Moslems living in the free areas of Cyprus were obliged by Turkey to leave their homes and move to the occupied areas.

Since then, 37% of the land is under Turkish occupation. In 1983 Turkey established the “Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus”. The international community condemned this separatist move, while he Security Council of he UN declared it “legally invalid” and demanded the revocation of this one-sided proclamation of independence. Moreover, it has called upon all nations to refrain from providing any assistance or cooperation to this separatist entity. It has also asked all nations not to recognize any state other than the Republic of Cyprus in the country. Consequently, the “isolation” was imposed by the UN Resolutions of the Security Council and not by the Republic of Cyprus. We wonder why this decision escapes the attention Not the EU?

Soon after the invasion, large numbers of Turks from Anatolia started to flow into the occupied areas and to set up in the houses of Greek refugees. The newcomers created severe problems with the T/C who were unable to live among the illiterate, semi-wild settlers. As a result they started leaving their homes to immigrate to other countries. So the number of t/c began diminishing.

The main reasons were: no work, no employment, small income as the settlers were working with a very low salary, enclave in the small area without a valid passport to travel. The 40.000 Turkish soldiers were governing and suppressing them, resulting to an unlivable life for them. Under this situation 57.000 Turkish Cypriots out of 116.000 immigrated and remains abroad. In their place more than 162.000 Turks were settled in the occupied areas changing radically the demography. Turkish Cypriots were in a real isolation. But no one ever protested for that, not even Turkey, or USA, or Britain.

This situation started changing with the opening of several crossing points in 2002 and the t/c became less isolated, especially after the Referendum. To day the situation is as follows:

Over 40.000 t/c are holders of Cyprus Republic passports

Over 79.000 are holders of birth certificates of the Republic

Over 67.000 are holders of the republic ID cards.

Note: the number of t/c living now in the occupied areas is around 80.000 while the number of Turkish settlers has increased now to 160.000. Does this mean anything regarding the referendum in the occupied areas, where the two thirds are Turkish settlers?

Expenses of Republic of Cyprus for the t/c

2003-2004, Euro 32.3 m, 2005 48m

Free medical care at hospitals since April 2003 24,420 at cost Euro 6.9m

Trade.

Exports 2001 2004 2005

Total $34m 61m

Countries

Turkey 12.5m 28m

EU 12m 15m

Islamic 2,5m 4m

Other EUR. 5m 12m

Tourism $179m 614m 271,1

Persons 470.000 557.000 0ver 600.000 (the 280.000 from the Gov. controlled area, with an income of 29.23m Euro)

Expenses of Republic of Cyprus for the t/c

2003-2004 Euro 32.3 m. and 2005 48m

The per capita income of t/c was in 2003 (in Euro) 3.693, at 2003 4.963, at 2004 6.780 and at 2005 7.960

The GDP was for the year 2002 6.2%, 2003 10.6% and 2004 14.2%

Above that, 8-10.000 Turkish Cypriots are employed in the free areas of Cyprus, enjoying a higher income that the one it could get in the Occupied Areas. Turkey did not allow the t/c/ to accept the 249M. Euro provided by E.U.

Conclusions.

After the opening of the crossing points the t/c are enjoying free medical care, social insurance, pension and other benefits, according to the laws of the Republic of Cyprus. In addition, employment to the one third of the financially active T/C, supply with EU passports to travel anywhere in the EU, while before that they could travel only to Turkey. A lot of Greek Cypriots are customers of the t/c market and they can freely visit the whole Cyprus with out any problem.

Direct trade with the EU, means acknowledgement of a separate state subdued to Turkey, which is ruling absolutely the occupied areas with their 40.000 troops staying in Cyprus. Is it your intention to partition Cyprus into two states because Turkey illegally holds a part of Cyprus after an invasion and occupation of a part of a EU country?

Having above in mint (you can check their accuracy), is that a situation isolation of t/c? Why for thirty years during which they were really isolated, without work and income and they were obliged to emigrate, no body ever protested against the situation? While now, that t/c are free within the Republic of Cyprus, EU countries accepted the Anglo-American inventions about isolation, without examining the real salutation and blame the government of the Republic of Cyprus, a member of EU, who’s sovereignty is violated? It is certainly the wrong policy of the t/c leaders, who adopted the permanent interests of Turkey against the interests of their community and of Cyprus.

Finally you should know that the Cyprus problem is one of invasion by Turkey and occupation of the 37% of Cyprus, killing more than 6.000 people and still remains. The direct trade of t/c and the EU is another expression of the acknowledgment of the occupied areas as a separate Turkish state.

So, the basic issues regarding the solution of Cyprus problem are: a constitutional government based on majority rule, the rule of law and protection of minority’s rights, the immediate removal of turkey’s occupation troops and settlers, unifying Cyprus for all its legal citizens, who will enjoy all rights any other citizen in E.U. enjoys.

For the

Movement for the European Future of Cyprus.

Vias Livadas

Deputy Chairman

Republic of Cyprus..

Emina
31 October 2007 at 13:59

What you have quoted seems to suggest that you in someway anything more that propaganda. Do you not actually know what the word propoganda means it means rhetoric produced by governments and states. We are asserting opinion and having a discussion nothinh i have said bears any relation to anything the "TRNC" government says in fact far from it but i suppose it would take a huge step to comprehend that people dont always speak as mouthpieces of the state. All you have done is what you accuse others of which is reproducing government propaganda. Why Fanoulla construct your own anlysis rather that simply cutting and pasting what others have said. I would have more respect for that rather than simply regurgitating other peoples views. Just because something is written in black and white and signed does not make it fact that would make the search for truth far more easy than it actually is

YANNIS
31 October 2007 at 18:53

•Lets bring the focus right back to the main issue. As we can see, Mr Coleman’s racist article has done nothing but insight and drum-up hatred between various ethnic communities in the UK. AND ACHIEVED NOTHING POSITIVE.

•This could lead to violence and communal tension which must be avoided at all costs.

•THE PUNISHMENT FOR INSIGHTING RACIAL HATRED IS PRISON.

•The Turks are a peaceful, hardworking and law-abiding nation and, left alone and unprovoked, get on well with Kurds, Armenians and Greeks alike.

•These communities are more than capable of sorting out their differences without interference from the English Mustard(Coleman)

•I know you want to call him something else Miss Fanoulla instead of mustard; custard perhaps ?? No, no Miss Fanoulla you are not allowed to use the ‘b’ word cos this is a family show, not the Jerry Springer.

YANNIS
31 October 2007 at 19:15

It is the quality of the arguments, not the quantity Miss Fanoulla. Size doesn't matter; its what you do with it apparently!!!???

Brookman
31 October 2007 at 23:13

Mr Coleman attempts to portray himself as someone who cares for Cypriots and Cyprus. To my knowledge, he has never visited North Cyprus or had any contact with any Turkish Cypriots either on the island or in the UK. Frankly, his credibility as any sort of authority on Cyprus is zero. Disappointing that the Newstatesman has published this article. It is nothing more than racist drivel and has no factual basis.

Emina
01 November 2007 at 00:29

Absolutely ! Coleman is inciting racial hatred the cypriot community in London gets on well living and working side by side. Who the hell is he to speak he is a GLA rep not even an MP what has an international problem such as Cyprus got to do with him he should stick to making decisions about Oyster Cards and congestion charges. The Cypriots who fund his trips to Cyprus are barking up the wrong tree the best he can do for them is get them off a parking fine. Or better still if your kids get caught fare dodging on the 29 bus give him a call because thats as far as his influence stretches. I shouldnt bother myself though wrong ethnicity might end up with a custodial sentence !!!!!!!!

beta
01 November 2007 at 15:44

It's interesting that Turks are being "innocently" killed throughout history by Cypriots, Greeks, Armenians, etc..

But when we look at the reality of who has forcefully removed these populations from their lands and still occupies their land the short end of the stick does not belong to Turkey.

Either the Turks have been incredibly lucky...getting killed by the thousands...but somehow end up with the land...or they are a nation in denial.

Emina
01 November 2007 at 16:54

Anybody who refuses to accept such things is in denial but it cuts both ways does it not? Like when Greek Cypriots deny 1963. We all seem to suffering from a serious bout of selective memory syndrome

YANNIS
01 November 2007 at 18:17

•Turks are law abiding, hard working and friendly people. They like to get on well with their Kurd, Armenian and Greek friends and neighbours, as well as the others. We also prefer to resolve our differences in a civilised way using the proper channels, AND NOT RESORTING TO VIOLENCE.

•Mr Coleman’s article is insighting racial hatred between various ethnic communities and could easily lead to VIOLENCE; look at the cock-fight developing over the air-waves which could spill on the streets of London and elsewhere. More grief for us, whilst more free holidays for Mr Coleman.

•This is not a civilised way to resolve the differences that might exist between communities. There are proper forums, procedures and mechanisms for dealing with such matters.

•THE PUNISHMENT FOR INSIGHTING RACIAL HATRED IS PRISON.

•I therefore urge all those, who really want to find solutions to the problems and issues that have been discussed, to join effort and bring this man to justice. This is the most effective way forward.

Emina
02 November 2007 at 12:27

I have alreardy written a complaint to Commission for Raial Equality

Leo
03 November 2007 at 12:21

Black or white?

While the UN, EU, British Government and practically the whole world recognise the fact that Turkish Cypriots are in isolation and are taking positive steps to put an end to this huge injustice, Greek Cypriot administration unashamedly continue to kick and scream and deny this fact with all their might and put obstacles in the way of progress.

It is quite clear that some of our Greek Cypriot friends are really seeing black as white. Mr Coleman also suffers from the same problem but as an elected representative with Turkish and Turkish Cypriot constituents, he has a responsibility for the Borough harmony and has to be extra careful not to offend any section of the community. The factually incorrect article that he has written is full of Turkish hatred and rather provocative. He should do the descent thing and apologise to his Turkish and Turkish Cypriot constituents or resign.

The Greek Cypriot Administration is not simply guilty of stealing the land of the Turkish Cypriot people dating back to 1964, but they stole the “RIGHTS” of the Turkish Cypriots in the Republic of Cyprus established in 1960 based on political equality.

Mr Coleman, would you have preferred to see the Turkish Cypriots dead rather than the presence of the Turkish troops? Since a comprehensive settlement in Cyprus has yet not been reached, it is absurd to expect the Turkish troops (who kept the peace for the last 33 years) to leave the island and leave the fate of the Turkish Cypriots in the hands of the Greek Cypriots and let history repeat itself. If this is what you are planning to achieve, then you are nothing but racist. To you, Turkish human life is less important than the walls of Greek Orthodox churches.

The Equality and Human Rights Commission champions equality and human rights for all, working to eliminate discrimination, reduce inequality, protect human rights and to build good relations, ensuring that everyone has a fair chance to participate in society. Why are you Mr Coleman promoting the interests of your Greek Cypriot constituents while stabbing your Turkish Cypriot constituents in the back? You already tried to take their rights away by attempting to ban holiday adverts in their homeland, now you are trying to get rid of the Turkish troops who are keeping the peace before there is a settlement on the island and put the lives of Turkish Cypriots in danger. Would you say that you are treating your Greek and Turkish Cypriot constituents equally?

I think Emina is fully justified in reporting you to the CRE.

Chris
04 November 2007 at 01:21

If it wasn't so sinister it would almost be funny that some people who defend apartheid in Europe are shedding crocodile tears about racism!

For almost thirty years no one was permitted to enter the occupied territories if they were of Greek name or origin. Thats racism in its purest undiluted form and that is the basis of the Turkish occupied territories of Cyprus.

And today Greek Cypriots are prevented from returning to their homes on the basis of their ethnicity.

In Cyprus an entire mainly Greek society was uprooted on the basis of ethnicity. We are talking towns, villages and regions emptied out. Maybe a bit of racism there?

Or is Turkey a supplier of politically correct ethnic cleansing?

Mr false-Greek-name-Yiannis does not have to believe the Sun newspaper of 8 August 1974:

"AS THE POLITICIANS vie to take credit for bringing a ''ceasefire'' to Cyprus, reports of appalling atrocities are filtering through from that tragic island. For, while the peace talks went on, Turkish soldiers were killing and terrorising innocent civilians. The behaviour of these troops will shock the world. As they are in Cyprus in the name of Turkey, that nation must immediately take action against the animals that wear its uniform...''

(A friend of mine by the way found out the fate of his killed family through that issue).

No doubt he is also ignoring the mountain of UN resolutions such as 541 which "calls upon all states not to recognise any Cypriot state other than the Republic of Cyprus…" and considers the declaration of a state in occupied Cyprus as "legally invalid".

So shall we try the European Commission of Human Rights and its report which was published in the Sunday Times on 23 January 1977 then, under the heading 'The terrible secrets of the Turkish invasion of Cyprus'?

---

"Killing

Relevant Article of Human Rights Convention: Everyone's right to life shall be protected by law.

Charge made by Greek Cypriots: The Turkish army embarked on a systematic course of mass killings of civilians unconnected with any war activity.

Turkish Defence: None offered, but jurisdiction challenged...

Evidence given to the commission: Witness Mrs K said that on July 21, 1974, the second day of the Turkish invasion, she and a group of villagers from Elia were captured when, fleeing from bombardment, they tried to reach a range of mountains. All 12 men arrested were civilians. They were separated from the women and shot in front of the women, under the orders of a Turkish officer. Some of the men were holding children, three of whom were wounded.

Written statements referred to two more group killings: at Trimithi eyewitnesses told of the deaths of five men (two shepherds aged 60 and 70, two masons of 20 and 60, and a 19-year-old plumber). At Palekythron 30 Greek Cypriot soldiers being held prisoner were killed by their captors, according to the second statement.

Witness S gave evidence of two other mass killings at Palekythron. In each case, between 30 and 40 soldiers who had surrendered to the advancing Turks were shot. In the second case, the witness said, "the soldiers were transferred to the kilns of the village where they were shot dead and burnt in order not to leave details of what had happened."

Seventeen members of two neighbouring families, including 10 women and five children aged between two and nine were murdered in cold blood at Palekythron, reported witness H, a doctor. Further killing described in the doctor's notes, recording evidence related to him by patients (either eye-witnesses or victims) included:

Execution of eight civilians taken prisoner by Turkish soldiers in the area of Prastio, one day after the ceasefire on August 16, 1974.

Killing by Turkish soldiers of five unarmed Greek Cypriot soldiers who had sought refuge in a house at Voni.

Shooting of four women, one of whom survived by pretending she was dead.

Further evidence, taken in refugees camps and in the form of written statements, described killings of civilians in homes, streets or fields, as well as the killing of people under arrest or in detention. Eight statements described the killing of soldiers not in combat; five statements referred to a mass grave found in Dherynia.

Commission's verdict: By 14 votes to one, the commission considered there were "very strong indications" of violation of Article 2 and killings "committed on a substantial scale."

---

Peace in Cyprus? Well what a surprise. If you extinguish the entire presence and evidence of the existence of a racial group, then you get a form of peace. The same sort of peace you get in a desert.

pegasus
04 November 2007 at 13:35

Who started what is a neverending story. Facts on the other hand are more clear and hopefully even the extremists of the north wont doubt them.

a) In 1955-59 Greek-cypriots fought for their independence against the British. the Turks on the other hand JOINED and HELPED the british army while their leader Rauf Denktash advocated against the Cypriots. -> no points for the guy you said its a turkish island!

b) The turkish-cypriot consisted only 18% of the population in the 1960. On the other hand the constitution made by the british gave them a parliamentary rate of 30% and also in the goverment agencies and not to mention the right to VETO every decision of the goverment.--> still thinking it was a fair and operational constitution?

c) In 1974 turkey invades the island on the excuse of the Article 2 which clearly states that it has the right to do in order to RESTORE the previous constitution. Expelling 200.000 people from the homes and 33 years sitting around with 40.000 troops wouldnt you say is a lot? or maybe its a peace force?

d) Some claimed that they dont trust the south and all that. I wonder then why you com e to the south to find jobs and get EU passports. Currenlty im in the UK and I had the opportunity to talk with a turkish cypriot student who came to study with a cypriot-eu passport but he never stopped saying that he is a Turk!

Furthemore, Afrika, a turkish cypriot newspaper many times wrote against the turkish Emigrants who;s purpose is to altered the islands population and have been troubling the community in the north.

Finally, the greek-cypriot community has been struggling for 33 to reunite the island while all these years the turkish side slammed the door in our faces, and now out of the blue you come and vote yes to the Annan plan. You dont need to be that smart to understand that Turkey had more to gain on this rather our island. the plan simply didnt have the clauses for a peacefull solution. We said no to the plan, not to the reunification of our island.

I am just a postgraduate student but

-I hope the facts speak from themsleves-

YANNIS
04 November 2007 at 13:53

My dear friend Broken-Record-Chris, just what the hell are you blubbering on about again?? Like the many faces of Rory Bremner, have you decided to masquerade as Chris to day??? What was wrong with your Mavromichalis impression, or Konstantas, or Justice for Cyprus(What a bloody joke!!)??

I am not going to fall into the trap of Mr Coleman by entering into a racist shouting match with you my dear friend, although it’s very temping. However I will make some brief statements to sum up my views and move on.

•TURKISH PEACE KEEPING FORCE HAVE BROUGHT PEACE AND STABILIY TO CPRUS NOW FOR 33 GLORIOUS YEARS AND THEY ARE STAYING.

•IF YOU GENUINLY WISH TO SOLVE THE CYPRUS PROBLEM, YOU SIT AT THE NEGOTIATING TABLE AND NEGOTIATE. NOT REJECT PEACE PLANS, E.G. ANNAN PLAN, PUT FORWARD BY THE UN.

•EVERY AVENU, INCLUDING the Commission for Racial Equality(CRE), WILL BE USED TO BRING Mr COLEMAN TO JUSTICE FOR INCITING RACIAL HAYTRED.

I wonder which funny character is our Mike Yarwood impressionist of the airwaves is going to use now to send his response. Get over it Chris.

Fanoulla Argyrou
04 November 2007 at 15:53

What a load of rubbish. Just because Mr. Coleman wrote a mild decent article spelling out the truths of the Cyprus problem the ...defence of the undefendable rushes to brand the man as ...racist! Under this Turkish mentality of freedom of speech the whole of the British National Press ought to have abandoned office and gone home or... to jail!!

Who? Those who practise racism against the Greek Cypriot victims of a bloody Turkish invasion and ongoing occupation of half of a EU member state not allowing the legitimate owners of properties in the occupied to return to their homes.

Facts are facts and nobody can change them. And all these latest Turkish attacks on everybody who dares speak the truth about the true events in Cyprus and support the plight of the victims of a barbaric (Sun 1974) Turkish invasion and ongoing occupation is ...branded as racist, surface because of the encouragement afforded recently to Turkish interests by the Labour British Government the same party that gave the tacit, green light to B. Ecevit to proceed with the invasion in 1974...

1) Turkey invaded Cyprus in 1974 and still occupies half of it under the might of well over 40,000 Turkish troops and well over 120,000 Anatolian squatters purposely imported to fill up the vacuum the 200,000 Greek Cypriot uprooted refugees left. You call this "peace" or ethnic cleansing of the worst kind?

2) Turkey will never be able to join the EU if she does not withdraw her forces from the occupied areas of the Republic of Cyprus. This is why Turks, some Turkish Cypriots and the British Government cannot digest the fact that their twofold plan failed in helping Turkish accession, taking over Cyprus and thus decriminilasing Turkey of its crime of the invasion.

The notorious apartheid Annan Plan which provided 99% of Turkish demands over Cyprus was rejected by the majority of the Cypriot population i.e. the GreekCypriots and Turkish Cypriots alike if one takes away the imported votes of the Anatolian squatters.

Members of the European Parliament came out massively in favour of the withdrawal of Turkish troops from Cyprus in a debate last week, ahead of the November 6 report by the European Commission into Turkey's membership bid progress.

MEPs called for a solution based on Human Rights and Rule of law, and beefed up their condemnation of Turkish violations of freedom of expression, giving stronger warnings to Turkey that accession was not guaranteed.

They called for deeper reforms.

"We (the EU Parliament) have a clear position on Cyprus", replied EU Rapporteur on Turkey, Ria Oomens-Ruijten after the vote in Strasbourg. She was referring to the EU Parliament's Resolution which was adopted with a large majority in Strasbourg, and firmly stated that " the witdrawal of Turkish troops would facilitate the negotiation of a settlement". The vice-Presient of EU said " We shall be more critical in the 2008 full report". MEPs strengthered warnings to Turkey that accession is not guaranteed in advance, but largely depends on the fulfilment of certain conditions, while also expressing their condemnation of the Turkish State's blatant violations of freedom of expression.

If you want to take... somebody to the CRE why don't you start with the Foreign Office, if you think you have grounds, those who in 1922 wrote about the Turks - who after executing the Armenian Genocide started on the Greeks and Assyrians and the massacres of the Greeks of Asia Minor:

"As the Turks are incapable of conforming to the mostt elementary standards of civilisation they must take the consequences. We cannot sacrifice the rights of living Christians to the rights of dead Turks..." C.W.Rendal Foreign Office 11.5.1922.

"..The Turks appear to be working on a deliberate plan to get ird of minorities. Their method has been to collect at Amasia, Ottoman Greeks from region between Samsoun and Trebizond. These Greeks are marched from Amasia via Tokat and Sivas as far as Ceasarea, and then back again until they are eventually sent through Kharput to the east. In this manner a large number of deportees die ont he road from hardship and exposure.

The Turks can say that they did not actually kill these refugees, but a comparison may be instituted with the way in which the Turks formarly got rid of dogs in Constantnople by landing them on an island where they died of hunger and thirst". (Sir H. Rumbold (constantinople) to Foreign Office 10 May 1922.

My father and his family were among those Greeks from Asia Minor.

And in 1974 we were again victims of Turkish brutality and uprooted from our homes in occupied Cyprus by the Turkish invasion and ongoing occupation.

If you do not respect the Republic of Cyprus and you call it "Greekcypriot Administration " you should not flood the Cyprus High Commission offices in Park Street London (or the District office in Nicosia) day in and day out applying for passports of the Republic of Cyprus, identity cards, birth and death certificates and so many other services, you should not run tfor free serviee too our hospitals for treatments in the free part of Cyprus and so many other benefits you absorb from the Republic of Cyprus without paying a penny in obligations as the rest of the citizens.

Why have a passport of the Republic of Cyprus if you do not recognise the country but as "Greek Cypriot administration"? You have the good of both worlds, you have our homes and land, you claim our benefits and passports to use worldwide, our pensions, you live in the occupied and yet you have the audacity to talk of ...racism and human rights! Thanks to the encouragement you get from the Labour British Government and its open support for Turkish accession which (support) includes imposing no matter what an aparheid plan as a solution in order to cover up its own and Turkey's violations of Treaties and UN Resolutions and collaboration in notorious planning to the detriment of the Republic of Cyprus.

YANNIS
04 November 2007 at 18:01

•Temper temper Miss Fanoulla, or is it Chris veiled under one of his Rory Bremner impressions?? Any road, keep your vile racist, warped and twisted comments to yourself. This is not civilised behaviour.

•There is a proper civilised mechanism for dealing with racism in this country, and being a law-abiding Turkish Cypriot, I am recommending the use of this method, rather than anything else, to bring Mr Coleman to justice. We will let CRE decide whether Mr Coleman has been racist or not, shall we Miss Fanoulla?

•Long gone the days of inciting racist hatred under the veil of ‘freedom of speech’ Miss Fanoulla.

•There was, and still is, a proper and civilised way to resolve the Cyprus problem; signing up to the UN ANNAN Peace Plan. This would have dealt with the presence of the Turkish Peace Keeping Forces (TPKF) on the island, as well as he land and property issues. BUT you rejected it.

•You cannot go on rejecting UN Pace Plans and then argue that you want to solve the Cyprus problem Miss Fanoulla !!!! No body believes you any more!!!.

•Unlike you, we Turks like to use the proper civilised means available to us to tackle and resolve the problems. NOT resorting to racist accusations, vile and baseless comments and verbal abuse under the veil of ‘freedom of speech’. Freedom of throwing verbal abuse and inciting racial hatred more like it.

Mary T
05 November 2007 at 13:12

The article of BBC (12/10/06) about the Nobel Prize winner for 2006 Orhan Pamuk, who like many other Turkish intellectuals, has several times criticized his country’s oppression of intellectuals, the treatment of minorities and its record of human rights should be read by this mouthpiece veiled under a Greek name Yiannis. Is he ashamed to use his Turkish name?

BBC article:

“Turkey's best-known author has also clashed with his country's government and Turkish nationalists.

He has been outspoken about Turkey's treatment of its minorities and its record on human rights.

"We have to be able to talk about the past," he has said.”

“Last year he faced charges of "insulting Turkishness" that could have seen him jailed for up to three years. The charges - which drew international condemnation - were dropped in January.

“They were prompted by Pamuk's remarks to a Swiss newspaper that "30,000 Kurds and one million Armenians were killed in these lands, and nobody but me dares talk about it".

“The Pamuk case highlighted questions over Turkey's commitment to freedom of speech and drew criticism from the EU. Brussels described it as a litmus test of Turkey's EU membership credentials.”

Therefore instead of accusing Mr Coleman as racist it would be advisable for Mr Yiannis or Ali or Mehmet whatever his name is, to write a letter to Mr Pamuk and other Turkish intellectuals to send him some books to read and learn about the country he so much aspires since as he says it has brought stability in Cyprus.

Secondly he should do some research at the British archives about Cyprus as Mrs Fanoula has done for over 20 years now and find out historical truth.

Indeed there are many Turkish Cypriots, who do not aspire to Turkey and want to live in peace with the Greek Cypriots as they used to, but it seems these are very few and far between.

I find it not only ludicrous but absurd, when TC nationalists accuse Mr Coleman of racism, whereas most Turkish thinkers themselves present the same facts in a more forceful manner than Mr Coleman and even risking their own lives with imprisonment!

YANNIS
05 November 2007 at 19:18

•Whoops, the woman is now trying to Helenise my name!!!!! What bloody arrogance!!! She has completely lost her marbles!! I am happy with my Turkish name thanks. Like trying to Helenise Turkish Coffee, Turkish Delight, Sis Kebab, AND Cyprus just to name a few, now the woman is trying to Helenise my name. How can anyone tolerate living along with these people???!

•Look let me spell this out for you clearly. Watch my lips: We, the Turkish Cypriots, do not want to live with you, the Greek Sick-parrots in Cyprus, as we used to. WE DO NOT TRUST YOU. YOU TREATED THE TURKS ON THE ISLAND IN THE MOST UNCIVILISED MAMMER.

•You cannot try to cover up this uncivilised behaviour by bringing into the argument Mr Pamuk or anybody else. Mr Pamuk and those who do not aspire to Turkey can go and live in the countries they aspire to. Have they showed any interest in Greece or Southern Cyprus??? And he is welcome to his NO-BELL prize. Perhaps you should offer him one with bells next time!!!

•Mr Coleman, please hand over those mavroyerimo marbles otherwise we will not get any sense out of this Greek Sick-parrot woman.!!

•Homework for you to-night Miss Sick-parrot: Get onto Google and do a word search on YANNIS and tell us tomorrow what it means in Turkish.

Leo
05 November 2007 at 22:45

Suggested reading to help understand racism and freedom of speech in Cyprus:

1. The report of the European Commission against Racism and Intolerance on Cyprus, dated 16 December 2005, recommends that the Cypriot authorities pay attention and address problems of racism and racial discrimination facing Turkish Cypriot citizens. In particular, it draws the attention of the Cypriot authorities to the following areas: the conduct of law enforcement officials, access to services, employment discrimination, availability of information in Turkish language; reinstatement in and compensation of property.

2. Tony Angastiniotis’ book on ‘Trapped in the Green Line’.

Freedom of speech? Greek Cypriots in Southern Cyprus did not even have freedom to vote YES to the Annan Plan. Those who wanted to vote for it, had their cars smashed, lost their jobs, got psychologically and physically attacked by the nationalists. Because Tony wanted to speak against the lies and air his documentary on the 1974 killings of the innocent Turkish Cypriots including a 16 day old baby, his and his family’s lives were threatened and he had no option but to move to TRNC for his safety.

It would help if some people read more widely before making wild accusations about others.

Emina
06 November 2007 at 00:45

I do not believe the above disgustingly uncouth racist rantings represent the views of the majority of Greek Cypriots, however they are still dangerous when expressed in such a vile manner so as i said let the CRE judge whether Mr Coleman had any right to encourage such worms to crawl out of the woodwork

Fanoulla Argyrou
06 November 2007 at 06:34

The Greek Cypriots may be "stupid" for paying Turkish Cypriots in their THOUSANDS pensions even if they live in the occupied, the Government of Cyprus provided you with ELECTRICITY for decades for which you owe it well over 240 million pounds for which todate you paid nothing, welfare benefits for those who wish to live in the free parts, free medical services to ALL of you who come from the occupied in your thousands for treatment, give you PASSPORTS and IDENTITY CARDS of the Republic without so far DEMANDING as they ought to, for you to sign a declaration that you RESPECT the Republic of Cyprus before handing you any such documents, WITHOUT you paying a penny in obligations as happens in all countries, but not racist.

If isolated cases such as Tony Angastiniotis who belongs to a fringe group working in favour of the Turks find they are more free or safe in the occupied areas let them go there and stay there. They are free to do so.

The Green line is the point behind which the land of the Republic of Cyprus is under the occupation of the Attila Turkish army.

Nobody smashed cars or lost jobs, or whatever else imaginary you resort to in order to accuse the 76% who rejected the notorious plan.

If the 76% of the Greek Cypriots who said NO to the aparheid Annan Plan that dissolved their country and dicriminised Turkey of its crimes of invasion, all those mass rapes of Greek women in 1974 (for which the British hospitals in the British bases were also called in and accepted to operate and treat - so many were the rapes by the Turkish invading army) and continued occupation of half of our country, if therefore all these people are ...racist that shows the...kind of civlised manner with which you seem to deal with things in the name of democracy.

Your so called civlised maner in actual terms seems to be that you regard invasion, occupation, expansionism and snatching of another country through murders on the way uprooting 200,000 Greek Cypriots from their homes and land as..."peace". And you call any criticism or profiling Turkish crimes against humanity, desecretion of religious places, such as churches cemeteries as...racism!

So, The Guardian of Thursday May 6, 1976 article

" The Rape of northern Cyprus" , the Unesco Report by Professor Talibard and ITV's This Week programme of same week (1976) ( and so many others after that) were..racist!

"Turkish treatment of the churches of northern Cyprus, a TV team slipped away from surveillance and brought back grint evidence of looting and desecretion for ITV's This Week tonight, Thames TV correspondent reports", wrote The Guardian in which report they included pictures of desecrated churches in the occupied area of Cyprus.

OUNESCO reports and EUROPA NOSTRA , EU reports and Resolutions refer in detail to the uncilivised and indescrimate looting and desecration of Greek orthodox Churches and religious places in the occupied areas.

Dr. Taylor's report of the World Council of Churches and dialogue between religious nations and idiologies also refers when , after visiting the occupied and stunned at the extent of the destruction inflicted, he wrote in 1975:

"The vandalism and desecration was so methodical in all areas (of occupied Cyprus) that they represent total catastrophy of what is regarded by the Greeks as Holy...".

Good work Coleman, you have not said anything new. So many others before you have already recorded in detailed reports, videos, TV programmes, numerous newspaper reports, House of Commons exhibitions (Doros Partasides latest), UN annual reports are full of these truths, they record everything year in year out...

Your only disadvantage at this moment in time is that the Turks and their supporters have as their priority the dicrimination of Turkey of its awful crimes over Cyprus and its ongoing invasion andoccupation without the termination of which, without its withdrawal from half of an EU member state (Cyprus), Turkey's accession negotiations cannot continue. This is the problem and their mania against you and all of us Greek Cypriots 76% who DARED DEMOCRATICALLY and rejected the aparheid Annan Plan. Let me remind all that such a racist aparheid plan as the so called Annan Plan is nowhere to be found in the whole world and the ONLY time it was presented and efforts were made to impose it was in South Africa but the black majority and Nelson Mandela REJECTED it outright as RACIST AND APARHEID. Why should the Greek Cypriots be any diffierent just to please Turkish and British interests?

The only RACIST thing in this whole matter is the RACIST ANNAN PLAN and the racist method those RACIST MINDS that devised it tried to impose in on a whole country - victim of a brutal barbaric invasion and ongoing occupation - for the obvious reasons.

Mary T
06 November 2007 at 11:31

Emina " please note that the above "uncouth racist rantings" are uterred by your Turkish Cypriot compatriot called Yannis and not by Greek Cypriots. I am glad you are disgusted by his manners and so have the rest of the readers.

That is why we sould ask the New Statesman to give an end to these nauseating remarks.

Mary T
06 November 2007 at 12:13

Emina " please note that the above "uncouth racist rantings" are uterred by your Turkish Cypriot compatriot called Yannis and not by Greek Cypriots. I am glad you are disgusted by his manners and so have the rest of the readers.

That is why we sould ask the New Statesman to give an end to these nauseating remarks.

Emina
06 November 2007 at 12:58

Please note that your own comments are also offensive and i refer also to comments made by others about the types of cars Turkish Cypriots drive, that we are uneducated, that we crowd the Cyprus high commission to claim passports and birth certificates which are rightfully ours, that we sell land and go shopping in the south, that we are rapists, that we are vandals and desecraters. Some also said that Turks are uncivilisedthe list goes on. I consider unlike you all Cypriots to be my compatriots not just Turkish Cypriots. Yannis has previously said that if left alone the Turks and Greeks get on he is being provoked by insulting and derogatory comments but should not rise to it but i have not noted any racist remarks. I dont like his use of the term Sick Parrot rather than Cypriot but we are all cypriots are we not so he could easily refer to me as Turkish Sick parrot if i was talking as much offensive rubbish as seems to be the case. But i have said in my previous blogs that Coleman has encouraged racial hatred from both sides i am not only refering to Greek Cypriots there has been offensive remarks posted by both communityies and Mr Coleman will not get away with this mark my word

Emina
06 November 2007 at 13:04

And i will be asking New statesman to stop this blog

Fanoulla Argyrou
06 November 2007 at 16:47

Do not manipulate statements and facts. However, if you cannot tolerate historical facts that is another problem and do not blame it on Coleman or any other "Coleman" for speaking the truth

Just because at this moment every criticism, according to Turkey and its strategic allies must STOP in order to facilitate Turkey and its EU accession process.

Fact one: Turkey invaded Cyprus in 1974 twice, a) in July and b) August.

Fact two: Turkish soldiers raped hundreds of Greek women, old women grandmothers (nene in Turkish) and young girls. The British hospital documents in the British Bases bear witness (documents in hand).

Fact three: 1619 Greek Cypriots missing (most murdered by the Turkish army) as a result of the Turkish invasion (BARBARIANS is a word the Sun newspaper used on its first page in August 1974 long before any Greek Cypriot did). Only lately the remains of some of them are surfacing due to DNA testing...

Fact four: 37% of the territory of the Republic of Cyprus is under Turkish military occupation since and the 200,000 Greek Cypriot refugees uprooting by the invasion and the Turkish army, title deed owners and legitimate citizens of the occupied area CANNOT return to their ancestral homes and land.

Fact five: Since 1974 Turkey has been importing Anatolian squatters into our homes and using them for their votes to promote its expansionist policies. Official Foreign Office documents certify this deliberate importation of foreign nationals to our occupied areas.

Fact six: Desecration and looting of hundreds of our Churches and holy places is confirmed, filmed, videoed, detailed in numerous international reports. So is the smuggling and black market selling of our precious artifacts looted. (Kanakaria trial in the USA and others).

Fact seven: Yes, you do flood our offices asking for passports, identity cards, free medical care, welfare benefits, pensions etc and the Repubilc of Cyprus does afford them to you although you do not contribute to the public purse not a penny. Every citizen in every country is allowed benefits in return for obligations in taxes etc. The Republic of Cyprus although the victim of a brutal Turkish invasion since 1974 does afford you all the above and in return what does it get? Abuse, lies ungratefullness and on top of everything you refuse to recognise the Republic of Cyprus instead you call it..."Greek Cypriot administration'"and you want us to recognise our occupied land as "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus". Who is the racist then?

Yes, you may be eligible for all these benefits but so are we to our homes, properties and land in the occupied. When are we getting them back, when is the Turkish army withdrawing and the 200,000 legitimate title deed owners of properties in the occupied allowed to return?

Not to mention the pseudo flag of the occupied regime that has been crafted on occupied Pentadaktylos with the racist Turkish boasting 'What happines to be a Turk'.

Fact eight: Yes, you do sell illegally our properties to foreigners, organise exhibitions promoting sale of our stolen properties and at this time big foreign construction consortiums are illegally building on stolen land in occupied Yialousa.

Fact nine: Y es the victim, the Republic of Cyprus although suffered so greatly, yet, provided the occupied ("stupidly") including the invading Turkish army which inflicted that brutal suffering to our people, with free electricity for almost two decades, until the occupied regime created their own generating station. Was that racist?

Who is indeed racist? The victims, the uprooted or those who want us to sign the abandonment of our properties to dicriminalise Turkey of its crimes?

All the above are FACTS, UNDISPUTABLE FACTS, REGISTERED IN THE UN, EU AND INTERNATIONAL COURTS. They are the HARD CORE of the Cyprus problem. Until these issues are properly addressed there is not going to be a proper, just and lasting solution of the Cyprus issue. And the Foreign Office knows it full well. Coleman or no Coleman these issues will continue to be raised by us until we get our stolen land back.

If you cannot come to terms with historical facts then that is not our problem. These facts will continue to be repeated, even if the Cyprus problem is solved, long after all of us are gone from this world. Simply because they already form part of world history that nobody can sweep away. Just like the Armenian Genocide and the memorial that now stands in Wales since the 3rd of November 2007, in memory of all those 1.5 million Armenian victims of Ottoman Turks ethnic cleansing...Just like the Jewish memorials all over the world in memory of all those millions murdered by the Nazis.

As long as those who commit murders and genocides are not internationally condemned and forced to pay for their crimes such horrible crimes will continue to repeat themselves and haunt humanity. Darfur was last...

YANNIS
06 November 2007 at 18:37

•This highly provocative article has achieved nothing but rekindle the fires of racial hatred between the Turkish and Greek Cypriots in the UK. Also attempting to pull into the fracas the Kurds and the Armenians.

•If unchecked, the situation could easily develop into something much more nastier.

•Emina is absolutely right. Mr Coleman should not be allowed to getaway with a racist article like this, veiled under ‘freedom of speech’. This is not acceptable behaviour.

•I am sorry if my tongue-in-cheek remarks have upset any body. I don’t enjoy reading and responding to racist material in any shape or form. I am therefore stopping from participating in this madness.

Emina
07 November 2007 at 00:03

I will also no longer participate in this disgusting and demeaning conversation. I have requested that this article and blog be removed and especially with regard to Ms Fannoullas last comments and if it is not removed by tomorrow i will be logding a complaint with the Press Complaints Commission against the New Statesman.

To Kounoupi
07 November 2007 at 10:21

The old dicta are still the best and there is no doubt that the truth hurts. That's why so many Turkish readers are choosing not to particpate any further. There is also the old agage that "there are none so blind as those who will not see". That sounds relevant also. There is and can be no disputing the findings of the European Council of Human Rights in 1976, the plethora of UN resolutions against Turkey, the substantial case law of the European Court of Human Rights and the evidence of massive cultural destruction by Turkey. It's hardly surprising that Turkey's acolytes in Cyprus are desperately trying to whitewash her human rights violations in Cyprus in 1974; Turkey is after all still trying to whitewash her crimes from 1915 against the Armenians. Witness the mass demonstartions against Armenians commemorating the Armenian genocidel ast saturday in Cardiff. But the truth has a way of coming to the fore and Mr Coleman and the New Statesman deserve great credit for trying to accelerate the process.

As for racist comments this is most definitely a case of the pot calling the kettle black. The state of Turkey is entirely the creation of a mass Turkification characterised by genocide, deportations and expulsions. Apartheid has been introduced into Europe by Turkey; no Greeks can live or return to their properties in the north of Cyprus. That's true racism not the nonsense spouted here by some people.

Leo
07 November 2007 at 13:50

And the broken records go on and on and on with lies and more lies and they actually think that by shouting the loudest and having the last word, they will convince people to believe the rubbish that they have repeated over and over again.

And yes, the truth hurts: the fact that Greek Cypriots ethnically cleansed Turkish Cypriots from 103 villages and forced the 18% Turkish Cypriot population to live in ghettos on 3% of the island.

No wonder the Cyprus problem has not been resolved with such extremists around. This is more like the Greek Cypriot version of the BNP who are being encouraged and fuelled with the likes of Coleman for self interest. Turkish Cypriots should not and must not be left unprotected surrounded with such lunatic nationalists. Turkish troops and partition are here to stay until such racist attitudes change.

If I have to listen to another broken record one more time, I will be sick. So, I am switching off too.

Chris
08 November 2007 at 04:24

How outrageous that when the arguments run out, the cheap race card is played.

And that is by some who seem to be supporting enforced apartheid, partition, racial segregation, or 'taksim' – created with bombs and the barrel of a gun – in order to transform part of Cyprus into a province of Turkey.

This would be akin to the white people of South Africa claiming they are the victims of racism by the black population in the days of apartheid.

I smell a rat. Surely the Turkish PR propaganda machine can come up with something more value for money than the race card.

No wonder the 301 penal code exists in Turkey, making it a criminal offence to suggest Turkey's occupation troops should leave the Republic of Cyprus (or to mention the Genocide of the Armenians). What better way to stifle debate and cover up the past and the present.

So Greek Cypriots and their supporters on this forum call for their human, moral and legal rights. So what. Just because some people get hot under the collar when exposed to Greek Cypriot concerns, it follows that Mr Coleman has written a racist article? Do readers really think the New Statesman would be so irresponsible to publish an article that is in any way racist?

Sol
08 November 2007 at 13:08

DEMOCRACY IN AZERBAIJAN by Dr Charles Tannock MEP

"I was fully expecting a repeat of the 2003 presidential election, which was widely criticised by international observers as deeply flawed.

"I was pleasantly surprised, along with the other MEP observers, that we observed a well conducted and transparent voting session in all the polling stations we monitored and a subsequent count which was carried out in an exemplary albeit laborious fashion."

"I believe the election augurs well for the future. It appears we will now see a parliament with the presence of significant numbers of opposition and independent MPs. They will be able to scrutinise President Aliyev's government and insist on improvements in democracy, human rights and governance. To date, Azerbaijan has had a relatively poor track record in these respects."

http://www.charlestannock.com/pressrel.asp?id=370

MOre joined up thinking from the Conservatives,...

Sol
08 November 2007 at 13:13

CHRIS the issue is is that between 1963 -74 the Turkish Cypriots were the victims, 1810 were murdered half of the entire populaltion of TC were forced from their homes. Niko Sampson the leader of the 1974 coup admitted this, when he said that had tUrkey not invaded he would have Aniliated the Turkish Cypriots from Cyprus.

Now in 1974 the Greek Cypriots were also the victims of terrible suffering at the hands of the invading Turkish army.

As both sides have suffered, why is it that Coleman and other supports of Greek Cypriots are only interested in the suffering of the Turkish Cypriots. Is it because they are racist? I don't know I have never met that to ask why they never mention the Turkish victims. But what I do know is those who deny the suffering of those on the other side are pulling the two sides further apart.

Adam
08 November 2007 at 18:52

As an Englishman who has been watching this bizarre episode unfold from the side lines, I am shocked by this relentless uncivilised aggression and barracking by the Greeks towards the Turks and Turkish Cypriots; driven by racial hatred and aided by our Mr Coleman’s article.

Full marks to Turks therefore for displaying exemplary behaviour and character by walking away from trouble, not responding to provocations and shutting the door firmly on uncivilised behaviour and racism.

We understand now fully who were the aggressors in Cyprus and why the Turkish Troops are necessary to stay there for a while longer. Can you imagine someone like Miss Fanoulla living next to a Turkish Cypriot neighbour??!! I certainly can’t.

Don’t try to export your uncivilised behaviour to our country. It’s not wanted.

Chris
09 November 2007 at 01:07

As a British citizen I am appalled by the ridiculous claims of some Turkish Cypriots and their cohorts who wish to impose racist apartheid on the Republic of Cyprus, using twisted accounts of history and fabricated facts and figures.

Perhaps Britain should not have embarked on a policy of divide and rule, using Turkish Cypriot auxillary units to terrorise the majority Greek Cypriot population and to sow the seeds of intercommunal strife, all in order to hang on to its colonial "unsinkable battleship" because it couldn't get over its loss of Suez.

Mr Adam, you have to realise the Greek Cypriots are not your tenants in Cyprus. Greek Cypriots were in Cyprus before England was English.

I believe most Cypriots are victims of circumstance and hope that one day, somehow, differences between Greek, Turkish, Armenian and Maronite Cypriots can be worked out.

As for those who choose to knowingly illegally purchase the homes of the Greek Cypriots who were ethnically cleansed, murdered and raped out of their houses – well, isn't it sick that there will always be some who think they will find a way to profit from the suffering of others.

Fanoulla Argyrou
09 November 2007 at 08:04

As Chris said we are not under the Turkish 301 Law that forbids and punishes whoever in Turkey accuses the Turkish Army as invaders of Cyprus.Perhaps we would have been had we accepted the racist aparheid "Annan Plan". Would any English, Welsh or Scotish person or any other from any other country apart from Turkey deny historical knowledge? The answer was given by "The Times".

"History Lessons are Civilisation's core and the core curriculum. To be ignorant of what happened before one was born is to remain a child for the whole of one's life. It is good news that history is being put back on the core curriculum for junior puplis. It should never have been taken off. As we report today, by the millennium history will become compulsory again for children aged between 8 and 11... Nations write their autobiographies in three volumes: the book of their deeds, the book of their words and the book of their art. None of them can be understood without reading the other two. Ruskin would have said that the only completely trustworthy one was the last. But without some knowledge of them, a British child might as well come from Japan or Mars, since Japanese children are probably as well taught about the tudor merchant venturers as they are about Shakespeare.

Other countries such as France and America treat their histories as a core of education and citizenship. For a human life is no better than that of a lesser animal unless it is woven into the life of its ancestors by the records of history.. History is more than a tool and a pleasure. it is a subject that defines us all. All should be taught it from their parent's knee until the age of 16". (Leader "The times" 23 November, 1998).

Like all other nations the Greeks and GreekCypriots have a right to know and teach history. So does the Turkish nation and face up to wrong doings and come to terms with reality and truth. But so far they are deprived of this freedom which forces them to behave othewise.

As far as I am concerned I have no problem living next to Turkish Cypriots - as regards a certain "Adam" and his racist remarks and who most probably knows nothing of the Cyprus problem.

In fact and for historical records I was born in the Turkish quarter of Nicosia and our immediate neighbours and many friends were Turkish, as well as tenants in my grandmother's house. Dr. Fazil Kutsuk ( later Vice President of the Republic of Cyprus) was our family doctor and my father as a young man was acquainted with R. Denktash. In 1958 we were almost the LAST Greek Cypriot family to abandon our home in that area and that under advice from our Turkish friends and neighbours who could not guarantee our safety after the burning of Ayios Loukas Church by TMT and murders of Greek Cypriots.

My family moved to Neapolis suburb where we were attacked again during the 1963 Turkish uprising against us and stayed enclaved for two weeks and in 1974 my family were uprooted from their homes by the Turkish invasion, they fled with their sandals abandoning all their belongings and properties. Not to mention that my father's family were already refugees from 1922 having been uprooted from their original ancestral home in Selefkia in Asia Minor...

TMT (continuation of Volgan) Turkish terrorist organisation was set up by R. Denktash as he admitted this to "The Times" on 20 January 1978. " I..had set up the TMT with a few friends.. The leaders were former arny officers from Turkey... I was political adviser.. ". " Year 1957.. in order to give daily reports to Ankara... and to secure aid from Turkey I used to go to Ankara very frequently. During one of these visits, the late Prime minister of Turkey Adnan Menderes, introduced Riza Vurushkan to me.. Later I met him at the office of a Lieutenant General and talked with him there. During our meeting it was decided that Verushkan should come to Cyprus as "civilian adviser". He arrived in Cyprus under an assumed name and settled down here". (Denktash to "Halin Sesi", 16 February 1979).

In Octoher 1959, seven months after the signing of the agrements on Cyprus independence, the British mine-sweeper HMS Burmaston intercepted the Turkish ship "Deniz" as it was attempting to deliver a shipment of arms to TMT in Cyprus. Sir Hugh Foot covered the incident in favour of Turkey and those Turkish military officers captured sent back to Turkey instead of standing trial in Cyprus...

"The Turkish Cypriot terrorist group Volkan was founded in 1955 and carried out many lethal attacks on civilians. However, very few members of it were ever tried let alone punished by the British crown. In contrast, numerous supporters of the Greek Cypriot EOKA were hanged and hundreds more imprisoned. The british trained an exclusively Turkish mobile reserve to combat EOKA and employed many more Turks in the police and auxiliary fordes. Members of these echelons were involved with Volkan which later changed its name to the Turkish Defence Force or TIMT( Turk Mudafa Teskilat). In a celebrated case in 1958, a Turk, Sergeant Tuna, was convicted of possessing bombs and ammunition by a British court. The good sergeant unlike his Greek counterparts, was allowed bail in his own recognizance and left immediately for Turkey.

In 1956, Alan Lennox-Boyd told the House of Commons that a Greek Cypriot demand for union with Greece would be met by a British-sponsored plebiscite for Turks only. If the Turkish Cypriots voted to join Turkey, the island would be partitioned. Thus, by demanding the whole of Cyprus, the Turks could be assured of getting at least half of it. Whereupon Dr. Kuchuk demanded that the island be divided along the 35th parallel. The British interest in helping to stimulate this demand is too obvious to need underlining..." ("Cyprus" Christopher Hitchens, 1984).

As for TMT attacks AGAINST TURKISH CYPRIOTS, between May and July, 1958

I can name, the murder attempt against Ahmet Sadi, murder of Fazil Onder, Chief Editor of the weekly newspaper Inkipaci, murder of Ahmet Yahya member of the progressive Turkish Cypriot Atlentic Centre, murder attempt against Hasan Ali, murder of Ahmet Ibrahim, a barber from Limassol because he had friendly relations with Greek Cypriots and expressed himself in favour of Greek Turkish cooperation, murder attempt against Arif Hulusi Barudi, and of course 11.4.1965 murders of Turkish Cypriot Dervish Ali Kavazoglu, a dedicated trade unionist who resisted and encouraged other Turkish Cypriots to resist the leadership's and TMT's segregationist policy and Greek Cypriot trade unionist Costas Misiaoulis were ambushed by TMT terrorists and murdered. Kavazoglu had openly blamed TMT for leading 20,000 Turkish Cypriots out of their houses in order to "pen them in places which differ little from concentration camps".

In 1963 the Turkish Cypriots prior to their attack upon us WITHDREW EN MASS and without any explanation or provocation, from public services and concentrated in their own established enclaves. Even Dr. Kuchuk's daughter Pempe ( I remember her name was) who attended with us school at the Catholic St. Joseph School and other Turkishcypriot girls in the same school, disappeared equally...

The Cyprus problem is deeply woven into the British partitionist policy in collaboration with Turkey and it is there that one can really find its deep roots and how it has been promoted to what we face today. In final analysis the Greeks and Turkish Cypriots were in reality played one against the other to such an extent that new generations who do not know historical backgrounds and even worse, others, will never understand the plight of the Cypriots.

At this moment the plight of the 200,000 Greek Cypriot refugees to return HOME, victims of the final act as a result of the Turkish invasions of 1974 is the HARD CORE of the Cyprus issue.

Sol
09 November 2007 at 10:41

Fanoulla Argyrou

Are you saying that everything that happened post independence is 100% completely and absolutely the fault of the Turks? That the Greek Cypriot authorities, EAKO - B, the Greek government bore no responsibility? That 1810 Turkish Cypriots were not killed, that the tens of thousand of Turkish Cypriots abandoned their homes and moved in to enclaves because they wanted to. That Niko Sampson was joking when he said that he would have annihilated the Turkish Cypriots from Cyprus?

I personally believe your story, as I know there are thousands of other stories just like yours, of terrible and unjustifiable suffering.

And I without reservation condemn what happened to you, your family and fellow Cypriots.

But can you understand that by denying the crimes which happened to Turkish Cypriots, you make it far harder for them to accept the crimes committed in their names? And is it not this acceptance which is the only way to reconciliation?

Liz
09 November 2007 at 15:22

BRIAN COLEMAN

Isn’t it about time you came out of hiding and responded to the Turkish Cypriots that you have offended and addressed their concerns? Isn’t that what decent people with moral values normally do or is this a hit and run case?

Did you read the article in the education section of the Independent newspaper yesterday to understand how the Greek Cypriot administration is trying to prevent thriving Universities of Northern Cyprus from taking part in the Bologna process, continuing to violate the basic human rights of Turkish Cypriots even in education? Don’t you have anything to say about that?

Sol
09 November 2007 at 17:23

http://news.independent.co.uk/education/higher/article313633...

Yes, I garee with Liz, rather than try to keep the two peoples divided, perhaps you could be far more useful trying to reconcile the two sides. Do something which will benefit both sides rather than play up to the zealots and xenophobes.

pegasus
09 November 2007 at 18:37

What can anyone do when you refuse to negotiate unless first somehting is given to the Turkish site and stil believe that you are the victims here? Turkish and turkish cypriots isolated themselves by accepting the regime you created. The so called "trnc" is NOT recognised by any country except ofcourse the invading one that is Turkey!! how can you expect any

EU help or anyhting?

Adam
09 November 2007 at 19:21

See if anyone can understand this reverse logic:

Miss Fanoulla first writes pages and pages of pure unadulterated hatred about the Turks, pouring out like a volcano. Talking about teaching them history and settling old scores etc and the turns round and claims she desires to go and live with them as she used to, as if nothing happened!!!!????

She claims she wants to resolve the land, property, Turkish troops issues in Cyprus, yet rejects and rubbishes the UN peace plans that go a long way to address these issues!!?? Not perfect but a good staring point, considering the current situation.

Well spank my vitals if I have heard anything more ridiculous in my life. My sympathies with the Turks.

It is quite clear to me that the Greek Cypriots are not ready to return to live together with the Turks; not by a long chalk. And therefore the Turkish troops should stay till attitudes improve dramatically. However by the looks of it, i.e. people talking about settling accounts from 1915 etc, every one is in for a very long haul.

It is also clear to me that the Greeks, with their loony friends, are on a mission to give Turks history lessons and settle scores from the past, rather than try to find a solution to the Cyprus problem.

More importantly however, I want to know from Miss Fanoulla if she intends to give the British as well some history lessons and settle some scores from the past ?? I am sure the Police will be interested to know too.

Sol
09 November 2007 at 21:31

pegasus

The Turkish Cypriots did negotiate, they did compramise, the would have removed all but 600 troops, settled the land issue etc etc. TURKISH CYPRIOTS VOTED FOR PEACE (Annan plan 2004, backed by Greece, Turkey, EU, UN, USA as fair.

You now can not say that they won't negoitate, because they they do

Joyce
09 November 2007 at 23:05

Dear Adam

if you were a truly unbiased English gentleman with a thorough knowledge of the history of Cyprus you would not have have resorted to racist remarks yourself, you have not resorted to threats and you would have not have taken sides and you would have not insulted a lady who has spent 30 years of her life searching for the truth in the Bristish Archives and she is British herself. Yes she did explode but would'nt you if you were in her position? It is just Greek temperament if you happen to know it. It is not "unadulterated hatred" as you called it. It is a characteristic that both share.

Some people here have done more research than others and they are in a position to present facts better than others. But yes facts on both sides are poignant.

I am very glad to hear that there are several Turkish Cypriots here who sympathise with the plight of the Greek Cypriots in 1974 and there are many Greek Cypriots who still despite what happened have Turkish Cypriot friends.

I am quite optimistic that both communities can live together in peace as long as the Turkish troops are out and the refugees return to their homes which some of us are illegally buying.

We have to leave them alone dear Adam, we have to stop the divide and rule policy. We have to help them reconciliate and built a prosperous future for them and their children. Be magnanimus and don't stir more trouble.I wish like many others that this atricle ended with a note of hope and reconciliation from both sides.

Fanoulla Argyrou
10 November 2007 at 06:34

To Sol

No, I am not saying that everything that happened post independent is 100% the fault of the Turks. And I am glad you put that as a question. Most of the blame lies with the British policy over Cyprus which accepted Turkish federal/confederal solution demand, promoted the division of the island, allowed Ecevit to invade and during the Geneva ceasefire talks James Callaghan put forward a policy of imposing a confederal solution through Bizonal Bicommunal Federation using Glafkos Clerides as his "front man" to accomplish it.. (Do not forget R.Denktash proposed a bizonal bicommunal federal solution during those talks in Geneva). A policy which is continued to this very.

However, the Turkish Government and the leadership of the Turkish Cypriots in their haste to impose their partitionist policy deliberately accelerated their attacks upon the Greek Cypriots (Christmas 1963) having first withdrawn from all Public Services to their self-imposed enclaves in the Turkish quarter of Nicosia. A vast majority of Turkish Cypriots from the southern parts of Cyprus (Paphos, Larnaca, Limassol) had already been transferred (and many not willingly) to the northern areas, a move financed by Ankara as early as 1958 (this was confirmed by Sir Hugh Foot himself in his daily reports to his superiors in London). British handling of the day bears a huge responsibility for what happened then. Instead of reconciling the two parts they poored oil in the fire with General Young's drawing of the Green Line which was to signal the permanent dividing line of Cyprus since 1963. Well, once one side is attacked you do not expect the other to stay idle and not defend itself and its people and things escalate with victims from both sides. Things roll, it is a domino effect.

The Chief of Intelligence in Cyprus J.V. Prendergast in a Secret "Fantom" Report as it was classified, on the 26 June 1959 wrote the following about R. Denktash to Sir Hugh Foot (Governor of Cyprus): "...Mr. Denktash has adopted the method of accusing his enemy of the very acts of which his own community is responsible, to wit, arms smuggling, weapon training, economic throat-cutting, manoeuvring behind a smoke screen of top-level benevolence and co-operation; preaching forbearance and brotherlove conditional upon reciprocity; and tacitly ordering the community to accept the Zurich and London Agreements as a means of reaching the original goal. To put it briefly, it is considered that whereas Mr.. Denktash appears to have modified his tactics since his return from Turkey on 12 June, his policy remains unchanged...".

Costas Gennaris a CyBc journalist in his book "Ex Anatolon" (From the East) published in 2000 reveals the truth about a big lie against the Greek Cypriots by R. Denktash. The Turkish claims about the murder of a mother and three children in a bath was never executed by the Greek Cypriots it was not even executed in Omorphita as claimed by the Turkish side ever since. The actual murderer was the father of the children, a military man, who had psychological problems and killed them all. Gennaris was told the truth by Turkish Cypriot journalist Ahmet Baran who had been ordered by the Turkish military to take photos of the massacre. The photos were taken from him and he was ordered not to say a word about it. The father also was taken away by the Turkish army. Gennaris promised his Turkish Cypriot colleague not to reveal the truth told and he kept his word until the Turkish Cypriot journalist died. The story is in full naration in Costas Gennaris book. However, for decades the GreekCypriots were unjustly blamed for this horrific crime...

As far as the EOKA B idiots are concerned, of course, they bear their own part of responsibility and who said otherwise here. We do condemn them since 1974 and the Greek government (junta) of the day, unlike the Turkish side, we do point the finger to those who did wrong. But whatever EOKA-B did to us it was between Greeks and Greeks and NOT ONE SINGE TURKISH CYPRIOT was attacked or injured during the coup. THE CONSTITUTIONAL ORDER was back in place within 8 days and Sampson replaced by Clerides. Whatever Samspon said nothing materialised he was out in 8 days tried, sentenced and punished. Therefore the Turkish invasion was illegal and unjustified but had a hidden agenda, the Turkish expansionism and never actually had the Turkish Cypriot interest at heart.

Finally, the Greek Cypriot side never deny wrong doings against the Turkish Cypriots when they are proven. All our Refugee Associations support the return of all refugees to their homes and land and that includes the Turkish Cypriots and they always stress that in their statements. As long as the Turkish Cypriots are willing to support our Refugee Associations in their legitimate demand for implimentation of their Human Rights to go back to their homes and land from which they were thrown out by the Turkish invading army there is no difference whatsoever.

You must also understand that it is not JUSTICE for 200,000 Greek Cypriot refugees in their own country not to be able to return to their stolen from them homes and land but instead be asked to sign off their properties and land for the legalisation of a pseudo state! Human Rights for all. If the Turkish Cypriots can defy what their leadership demands and join forces with our Refugee Associations in their plight for return to our homes, withdrawal of all settlers and of the Turkish army, why not indeed for reconciliation to take place? Can the Turkish Cypriots rise up to this expectation and live in one country, one government, the Republic of Cyprus? If they do we certainly do not have any problem.

YANNIS
10 November 2007 at 12:08

Let me see if I understand Miss Fanoulla clearly;

•Kick out the Turkish troops who came in 1974 and gave their young lives in hundreds to save us from a total annihilation by the Greeks and Greek Cypriots.

•Kick out our blood brothers and sisters from Turkey who have been helping and supporting us economically, morally, culturally to build a secure future for ourselves and our children…….. AND FOR WHAT??????

So that Miss Fanoulla and other Greek Cypriots, with their loony friends, can come and live next door and teach us, using their GREEK TEMPREMENTS, some history and settle some scores from the past!!!!!???????.

DOES ANYONE BELIEVE IN SANTACLAUSE??????

Miss Fanoulla, if ‘Joice’ was you, and I suspect very much that she was, I would go a see a specialist. You are damaging the credibility of the Greek Cypriots my dear woman.

I am sorry to bat in like this again, but I just couldn’t resist it, SORRY.

Q.E.D.
10 November 2007 at 12:30

Dear Joyce,

Anyone who claims Turkish Cypriots formed 5% of the island’s population as opposed to 18% (less than 30% accurate) and claims that Turkish Cypriots were well integrated with the Greek Cypriots when they were forced to live in ‘ghettos’ occupying less than 3% of the island (0% accurate) cannot be trusted. Fanoulla signed a petition on the PM’s website demanding Turkey gives back Northern Cyprus to the ‘Greeks’. To the ‘Greeks’? Is this to satisfy her ENOSIS dream? No one can take Fanoulla seriously when on average her information is less than 15% accurate and she cannot even get the basics right. Not 20 or 30 or another 300 years of research will be of much use in her case. I can now see what Tony Angastinotis was referring to when he said he is fed up with the lies. Turkish Cypriots do not need to learn Cyprus history from Fanoulla or anyone else. They lived and experienced it for themselves and perhaps your lecture on being a truly unbiased English gentleman should be directed to Coleman.

I guess this is the kind of rubbish Coleman is brainwashed with during his free holidays and his wining and dining sessions. Not a good enough excuse I am afraid!

Q.E.D.

Fanoulla Argyrou
10 November 2007 at 21:17

Tp Yannis

Perhaps you are using different names to post comments and you may think I practise the same method. Whoever Joyce is has nothing to do with me. The temprement factor rather suits you and your friends whom I will not call "loonies". The withdrawal of Turkish invading troops from Cyprus is called for by UN resolutions starting with 3212 in 1974 and numerous others from international forums and the European Union to date. The right to return to our homes, properties and land stolen from us is a fundamental human right and my "loony" friends as you call them are not one or two or ten or twenty but 200,000 Greek Cypriots refugees uprooted by the Turkish invading army. Your temprement clearly demonstrates how "much" you respect the universal implementation of human rights

Unlike you we are not in the habit of distorting facts or manipulating the truth, we are stating the basics of the situation and that obviously is hard to swallow. : The Cyprus problem cannot be solved unless the issue of the return of the displaced refugees is settled satisfactorily with their return and repossession of their properties to which they are the rightfully and lawful Title Deed owners.

We do sympathise with you however and your predicament of not being able to face facts from fear of anachronistic Turkish law that forces you to bow to the Turkish army.

The following was not published in any Greek Cypriot newspaper but in Turkish London weekly Londra Gazete only last Thursday. it reads:

' Turkey reform' must not be put onback burner" - Lambert.

The report, published by the European Commission on Tuesday, claims little has been done over the last year on issues such as freedom of opinion and expression.

Commenting on the report this week, London Green MEP, Jean Lambert, said: " This report reflects the broad feeling in Europe that crucial reforms in Turkey must not be put on the back burner. The Commission notes there has been even less progress as regards civil control over the army, with the army interfering in the political crisis earlier this year. These are no excuses to justify further delay.

"Despite the difficult domestic situation, the government in Ankara must stick to the reform path. Article 301, outlawing the 'insult of Turkishness' has become synonymous with the old Turkey and is not compatible with a country aspiring for EU membership."

Ms Lambert has urged the Turkish government to revive its "former zeal for reform" and strengthen freedom of opinion and the rights of religious minorities. It must also seek a sustainable solution for the Kurdish situation through economic, democratic, social and cultural reforms, she claims. In exchange, the EU should guarantee fair negotiations with the aim of full membership of Turkey at thye end of the process.

Jean was named MEP for Justice and Human Rights in october 2005. She is one of nine MEPs representing London and one of two UK Green representatives in the European Parliament".

(Londra Gazete 8.11.2007).

As for the...specialist it is evident who needs his services because it is people with mentality like yours who do the greatest of damage to the credibility of Turkish Cypriots.

Fanoulla Argyrou
10 November 2007 at 21:47

To Q.E.D.

In your 10 Nov comment you mention my name and thus I reply to the part that affects myself.

You claim I signed a petition on the PM's website demanding "Turkey gives back Northern Cyprus to the "Greeks". Is this to satisfy her Enosis dream..". That is another clear cut distortion and manipulation of facts let alone premeditated biased (and racist) comment.

I signed many petitions, as did hundreds of others, for the withdrawal of Turkish troops and liberation of our country from foreign invasion, the return of all of our refugees to their homes and properties calling for the end of foreign Turkish occupation but I do not think there is such a petition on the PM's website as the one you claim.

The replies I have from those I signed on the PM's petition site are:

!) 18 September 2007 : "You recently signed a petition asking the Prime Minister "to demand of Turkey that it comply fully with the judgement of the European Court of Human Rights, which found it guilty of violating the right to life and liberty of Cypriots regarded as missing persons since its illegal invasion and occupation of Cyprus in 1974 and for violating the right of their relatives not to be subjected to inhumane and degrading treatment, whilst searching for news of their loved ones".

2) 30 October 2007 "We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Respect international agreements and efforts to solve the Cyprus problem and avoid any action of direct or indirect recognition of the so called "TRNC", which undermines the UN agreements".

3) 21 June 2007 "You recently signed a petition asking the Prime minister to "promote a lasting solution to the Cyprus problem based on the right of return of all refugees to their homes and the repatriation of illegal settlers".

4) 7 June 2007 "You recently signed a petition asking the Prime Minister to "act in accordance with Britain's treaty obligations with the Republic of Cyprus and to take decisive action to prevent direct trade and direct flights between Britain and turkish occupied Cprus and to prevent the illegal sale and advertising of Greek Cypriot property to British nationals".

Fanoulla Argyrou
10 November 2007 at 23:11

To Adam

Yes I do reject and rubbish the so called UN peace plan i.e. Annan Plan because it was racist, drafted on apartheid and so did the 76% of the Greek Cypriots in Cyprus through the referendum on 24 April 2004. And so did a very good percentage of Turkish Cypriots although this factor is not profiled by the supporters of this notorious plan. It was not at all a good starting point and you know it full well , it was the end of the Republic of Cyprus and the turkification of Cyprus. But suited Turkey and its allies who were and still are in urgent need to free her of her obligations and guilt vis-a-vis the crimes of the Turkish invasion and on going occupation of half of Cyprus and which constitute the biggest obstacle in her European accession negotiations besides the necessity to abolish Article 301.(Re Article 301 see Londra Gazete 8.11.2007).

1) In April, 1992 Turkish lecturer Yialtsin Kutchuk said: " If Bizonal Federation is put into force as described by the Secretary-General of the UN Boutros Ghali, and in particular paragraph 20, which refers to the compulsory and guaranteed clear majority and land ownership in each area, this will lead to outright partition of Cyprus and Turkification of a huge part of the country. I was always against Partition and I repeat my beliefs: if the Ghali Set of Ideas are put into force Cyprus will be led to Partition and Turkification".

(Yialtsin Kutchuk was absolutely right. The Ghali Ideas, which were prepared by the British (statements to that effect by Gl. Clerides and Y. Matsis) built on the Turkish demand for bizonality were rejected by the Greek Cypriots in 1992 on the very same grounds. They reappeared in 2004 in the form of the Annan Plan with the contribution of Sir David Hannay.).

2) American Under Secretary Daniel Fried, in the presence also of Under Secretary Matt Bryza and more than 20 Greek Americans, in the Wheeler Hotel in June 2003 stated:

" When we were trying to persuade Turkey to allow the passage of our troops through its territory into Northern Irqq, we offered Turkey two incentives, several billion dollars in grants and loans and Cyprus in the form of the Annan plan". When Turkey refused passage, the billions were dropped. However the Annan plan survived until it was rejected by the Cypriots on April 24.

3) "Only a lunatic would be able to draw up the Annan plan". Demetris Tsatsos, Professor of Constitutional Law.

4) 1 April 2004, Turkish Daily News - Opinion by Mehmet Ali Birand. Well known Turkish journalist Birand listed a number of Turkish gains from the Annan Plan.

"... Today I want to share with you what the fourth version of the UN imposed plan tells us. Here is what this plan brings to the Turkish Cypriot side.

The republic of Cyprus, which is under the supervision and administration fo the Greek Cypriots, will disappear. Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots will establish a new republic. Everything will be new from the flag and national anthem to law and judiciary.

The Turkish community on the island which has continuously been named as a minority to date will be accepted as politically equal to the Greek community for the first time.

The Turkish community will secure the right to govern itself with its own constitution, own parliament and laws.

The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (KKTC) which has been recognized only by Turkey on the internatinal arena, which has been under the presssure of a series of embargos.. in adition will become a member of the European Union.

The Turkish side will guarantee its existence on the island with restrictions on the number of Greek settlers and their acquiring commodities in the north, in case of a future invasion by the Greek Cypriots.

The plan secures the transient existence of Turkish troops on the island.

The plan allows the Turkish Cypriot state to continue its relations with Turkey.

Turks will get rid of 4,000 cases waiting at the European Court of Human Rights and 47 others that are about to be given a final decision.

The Cyprus problem that has been perceived as the biggest obstacle on Turkey's way to join the EU will be eliminated.

Can we imagine any better plan?

I can make the list above longer. However, let us stop for a while and ask ourselves: Couldn't a plan have been prepared that would give us even more advantages?

Of course, the plan could have been better. However, such a way of thinking has no limits.."

The Greek Cypriots and those Turkish Cypriots who rejected it were fully justified. They rejected the abolition of the Republic of Cyprus, the decriminalisation of Turkey of its crimes of the invasion and occupation, they rejected the racist and aparheid exclusion of the right of the 200,000 Greek Cypriot refugees displaced persons to repossess their homes and properties as well as the cancellation of well over 4,000 pending court cases against Turkey at the European Court of Human Rights etc etc. Daniel Fried's revealing statement sums it up perfectly as well as M. A. Birand's analysis.

Learning or debating lessons from History, and historical blame is part of looking for knowledge and history and the future cannot be built without recognising the wrong, bad or good inflicted in the past upon people. In the free world is called Political Accountability and such a prospect is still not allowed in Turkey.

Perhaps Mr. Adam ( or whatever else his name is) watches too much Pakistani or Turkish news, but in Europe we do not have Article 301 to censor us from free speech. Or from referring to PUBLIC British Foreign Office Policy documents from the British Partition plans devised in 1956 in the Colonial Government House in Cyprus and in 1957 in the Foreign Office in London accommodating Turkish expansionist demands over Cyprus, the subversive British military elements in Cyprus in 1964 (reference also by recent BBC documentary) to the preparation of the racist Annan Plan. On the contrary it is attempts to curb these freedoms that would be of interest to some international forums.

starsi
10 November 2007 at 23:17

Whether it be Armeinans, Cypriots, Greeks, and now the Kurds, there is always an excuse from Turkey and their friends on why theses peoples were either annihilated or ethnically cleansed from their ancestral lands - shame on them. Reconciliation cannot begin without at least an acknowledgement of Turkey's crimes against humanity.

Joyce
11 November 2007 at 01:17

Dear Q.E.D (Quod erat demonstrandum?)

I have not heard anyone with a meagre knowledge of history asserting that the Turkish Cypriots constitute 5% of the population instead of 18%. But does this entitle them to 35% of the land? What about the settlers? Is that a fantasy or a fact? And who brought them on the island and why?

Secondly no one either Greek Cypriot or Greek aspire to unification with Greece as far as I know, (Ms Fanoula has openly I think listed all the petitions she signed), but what most Cypriots want is a unified island and the Republic of Cyprus restored. The refugees have been waiting for 33 years to go back to their homes, which are illegally bought.

Mistakes have been made by both sides as it has been stated already by others but

I am optimistic that both communities still want to live together in peace without the intervention of big powers.

Indeed there are several Turkish Cypriots, who want the withdrawal of the Turkish troops from the island, who have come to this country because they themselves were suffering by the regime in occupied Cyprus.

Regarding Mr Coleman's article, which is the main subject here I should note that it does not attack Turkish Cypriots as he says:

"Most of the native Cypriots (both Greek and Turkish) have long since given up and abandoned the place to settlers flown in from Anatolia".

What Mr Coleman reiterates and criticises is Turkey's policy, the desecration of the churches, which any visitor in Cyprus can see with his own eyes, the persecution of the Kurds and the Armenian genocide. This is for the Turks of the mainland to admit and apologise not for the Turkish Cypriots.

All this that Mr Coleman has expressed is nothing new. Turkey’s policy has been repeatedly criticised by many English MPs, by the European Union, by the United Nations resolutions and by Turkish intellectuals and journalists who have been to jail for expressing their opinions. Or haven’t they?

Unless you never watch BBC world news. It is in fact this policy which is a hindrance to her entering the EU. Or is it not?

Regarding Mr Coleman’s trip at least he had the courage to reveal it. What about those MPs whose trips are paid but they never admit it?

It seems to me that many of the nationalistic and demeaning comments made are not made by Turkish Cypriots but by Turks themselves.

If they were more courteous with their comments as the New Statesman appeals, it would be kindly appreciate it.

I

sue
11 November 2007 at 18:30

Anyone who claims the UN Peace Plan(Annan), backed by EU, USA, Greece etc, is racist and based on apartheid cannot be and should not be take seriously.

Certain individuals first gives us the impression that they aspire to the EU norms and values and then try to dismiss UN peace plans backed by EU using some Hyde Park Corner soap-box rhetoric. Implying that EU is perusing racist policies in Cyprus.!!!!?? WHAT UTTER RUBBISH, WHAT UTTER NONSENSE. How can anybody take these people seriously???

My sympathies also go with the Turkish Cypriots who appear to be the victims here.

Q.E.D.
11 November 2007 at 19:17

Dear Joyce

You must be a very dear friend or relative of Fanoulla spending your weekend trying to defend her. Have a look at http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Turkey. “…Turkish Cypriots living on the island (5% of the island’s population who were always well integrated)”.

I guess you also consider yourself an unbiased English lady trying to defend Coleman whose actions as an elected representative with Turkish Cypriot constituents is inexcusable.

Most of the questions you have raised have already been answered by others above and I do not see the point of repeating them again. I will however briefly remind you of the basics as you also lack balance. You are wrong when you say that, “The refugees have been waiting for 33 years to go back to their homes”. Turkish Cypriot refugees have been waiting for 44 years to go back to their homes or don’t their rights mean anything to you either?

1. Cyprus problem is between Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots. Turkish Cypriots lived in oppression and were terrorised by Greek Cypriots for 11 years between 1963 and 74. Turkish troops intervened in 1974 to stop the total annihilation of the Turkish Cypriots on the island and they must remain there for the protection of Turkish Cypriots until a comprehensive settlement is reached.

2. Turkish Cypriots agreed to the Annan Plan to unite the island which was backed and considered fair by the UN, EU, Greece, Turkey and practically the whole world. Greek Cypriots have only themselves to blame for rejecting it. The greed and power hunger of their extremist leaders and the role of the Greek Orthodox Church where they are taught to hate Turks are the contributors to the mess that they are in today.

3. Greek Cypriots know exactly what they have to do if they want the property issue to be settled and if they want Turkish troops to leave Cyprus. They should go to the negotiating table and agree a settlement with the Turkish Cypriots. In the meantime, no one has any time for their bickering and dramatics apart from the likes of Coleman who are benefiting from it.

4. There are 230,000 settlers in South Cyprus and the majority are Greek Orthodox. 100,000 of these are from Greece. Why don’t you ask the Greek Cypriot administration what these settlers are doing there? How come you refer to Fanoulla as a British citizen but not a settler and the legitimate citizens of TRNC, settlers? Is this your definition of being an unbiased, fair English lady?

5. Majority of Turkish Cypriots living in the UK were driven out of their homes in Cyprus by Greek and Greek Cypriot militia before Turkey intervened and they came to England for their safety. Some are here because of their continued isolation. Turkish troops are the saviours of Turkish Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots do want the troops to stay until a settlement is reached; but it obviously gives comfort to some people to think otherwise.

6. Alleged Armenian Genocide: Genocide is a legal term. It is a concept adopted by the UN in 1948 and has a very clear description. According to this description, only the UN or an international body of law, a court like Haag or Nurembourg can pass such a judgement. No court has ever passed such a judgement in the case of the Armenians, but Coleman and Greek Cypriots can’t wait to hang the Turks.

7. There is a huge distinction between Kurds who are brothers of Turks and PKK terrorists who are friends of the Greek Cypriot administration. Trying to divide Turkey by supporting terrorists is a sick way to exist. Kurdish soldiers are fighting alongside Turkish soldiers against the PKK terrorists and one of the 8 soldiers who were taken hostage by the terrorists and released last week was a Kurd. BBC world news would not normally report on such detail.

Coleman went to visit Cyprus, not Turkey. Why does he come back having failed to visit northern Cyprus and start bashing Turkey? What do the Armenians or Kurds got to do with Cyprus? Why isn’t he talking about the inhumane isolations on the Turkish Cypriots? Why isn’t he talking about the Grand Mosque in Paphos that has been bulldozed in the south? Why isn’t he talking about ways of bringing the two communities together so that they can resolve their differences? Does he actually give a damn about the Cypriots? I think not.

I know several thousand Turkish Cypriots and many Turks and I can assure you that the comments made here are truly coming deep down from the hearts of the Turkish Cypriots. I wish that Fanoulla and like minded people stop living in the past and move on and take positive steps to find a comprehensive settlement in Cyprus. Life is too short and people should learn to forgive and live in peace and work for the good of mankind irrespective of colour, race and religion.

Goodbye from Q.E.D. and hope you all have a happy, healthy, peaceful life.

sue
11 November 2007 at 20:01

Joyce, how can anyone put land and property above peace, security and lives??

By the sounds of it Turkish Cypriots do not feel safe to go back and live in Southern Cyprus amongst Greek people like Fanoulla as they used to. They also do not feel safe to let the Greeks to come and live amongst them. After being tortured, killed, raped and forced to live in ghettoes for 11 years, 1963-1974, and faced total annihilation by the Greeks and Greek Cypriots, who can blame the Turks? More sympathise to the Turks I am afraid.

Emina
12 November 2007 at 00:22

i had vowed not to continue with this blog but i had decided to find out who Fanoulla actually is so i googled her name. This so called researcher seems to have spent her every waking moment on a single quest to deny that a single Turkish Cypriot was killed in 1963 -64. If thats the case madam what became of my aunts fiance who went missing in Ayios Sozomenos what happened to my mothers cousin who was tied by the leg to the back of a land rover and dragged to his horrific death and another beheaded in a church. Why did my mothers entire village flee in the middle of the night on foot to Louroudjina and spend 7 years sleeping 16 to a room on the floor living on fasollia and stale bread scavenged from UN rubbish tips because the Greek extremists blockaded the enclave. Why in 74 were all the Turkish Cypriots in my mothers village rounded up and taken to the village cafe to be shot and were only saved because one of the greek cypriot soldiers was a villager and begged for their mercy (his humanity came first). People are inherently good this is what i believe. What do i gain from denying what happened to you and what do you gain from denying what happened to Turkish Cypriots is it some kind of peace that your people could not be responsible for such horrific crimes. I will leave you in your peace if it helps you sleep at night. I find greater peace in accepting what happened and feel no shame because i was not responsible i do not see people who would carry out such attrocties as having anything to do with me. The Turks who killed Greeks in 74 are not my people i hav nothing in common with them. But the Greek soldier who ever he was who protected my family in 74 is my people because i would like to believe that i would do the same. History as you put it tells us what happened in 63 an 74 you cannot pick and choose one or the other. I know what happened in 63 i hve been told all my life its only when i accept what happened in 74 can i claim i know the truth. Fanoulla you know what happened in 74 you have researched and know when you find out what happened in 63 dont seek a way out a way to deny do not discard as propaganda or falsehood because if you do you are not reasearching you are simply seeking to confirm your beliefs. I read your article and you stated that Martin Packard was asked to withdraw his allegations of the Nicosia hospital massacre. Why would the British government do that why do you believe that archives will reveal the truth any information that would genuinely tell us what happened remains classified. Yes you are right no evidence exists of what happened to the 27 Turkish Cypriot patients just that they went missing. Isnt that the same as the Greek Cypriot missing we dont know what happened to them but we know who is responsible. Seek peace and truth in acceptance as i have because if you dont it will torture you as it clearly does for the rest of your life.

YANNIS
12 November 2007 at 01:24

Let me put in my two pennies worth if I may. I and many others have said these already but I feel its worth repeating.

•TURKISH CYPRIOTS DO NOT TRUST HE GREEK CYPRIOTS WHO TRIED TO ETHNICALLY CLENSE AND MASSACRE THEM BETWEEN 1963 to 1974, IN ORDER TO ANEX CRPRUS TO GREECE(ENOSIS).

•THEY DO NOT FEEL SAFE TO GO AND LIVE WITH THE GREEKS IN THE SOUTH, NOR THEY FEEL SAFE TO LET THEM COME AND LIVE IN THE NORTH.

•ISSUES CONCERNING PEOPLE’S SAFETY AND LIVES COME FIRST. LAND, PROPERTY, MONEY ETC ISSUES ARE WAY DOWN THE LIST. NO ONE CAN EXPECT THE TURKISH CYPRIOTS TO THROW THEIR SAFETY TO THE WIND BY ASKING THE TURKISH PEACE KEEPING FORCE TO LEAVE. YOU CANNOT ALSO EXPECT MANY TURKISH CYPRIOTS WHOSE HOUSES AND BUSINESSES HAVE BEEN RUINED AND DESTROYED IN THE SOUTH, BUT SINCE HAVE ESTABLISHED THEMSELVES IN HE NORTH TO GET UPROOTED AGAIN. AND FOR WHAT??? SO THAT THE PEOPLE WHO TRIED TO MURDER AND ANNAHILATE THEM CAN COME AND LIVE NEXT DOOR AS IF NOTHING HAS HAPPENED. NO BLOODY WAY.

•THE UN PEACE PLAN(ANNAN), BACKED BY UN,USA, GREECE ETC, WAS OFFERED AS A REASONABLE STARTING POINT TO RESOLVE SOME OF THESE ISSUES AND DIFFICULTIES. HOWEVER IT WAS REJECTED BY THE GREEK CYPRIOTS. APPARENTLY UN, BACKED BY EU AND GREECE WANTED TO ENFORCE RACIST APARTHEID IN CYPRUS!!??……WHAT A STUPID, STPID ARGUMENT. HOW CAN ANYONE REASON WITH THESE PEOPLE???

Fanoulla Argyrou
12 November 2007 at 08:26

Dear Emina,

Thank you for your latest comment but if you allow yourself to be a tiny bit more unbiased you will find that your assumption is exactly the opposite of the truth. I have spent yes a great deal of my lifetime, I am a grandmother now, looking for the real truth of our problem. And one thing that had devastated me was Packard's accusations that we had massacred those 27 Turkish Cypriots in the Nicosia hospital. I lived the 1963/64 events in Neapolis Nicosia suburb and I have first hand personal experience of those events. When one night we were attacked by the Turkish Cypriots in December 1963 none of the people had guns apart from hunting ones. They all rushed to find them to protect us. And the only defence we had was those few rusty hunting guns and whatever the Police Station had. We stayed enclaved for two weeks and the Red Cross used to bring us rushes of food from the free area of the Republic. I can name you a number of Greek Cypriots who tried to escape to the free part some begging the English military tenants (at the time a great number of British personnel used to rent houses in our area - it was one of the best suburbs of Nicosia) to smuggle them out. Some did and were caught by the Turks on the way out and were killed. Ploutis I remember was one of them, another girl of 14 was raped and killed and left in a ditch and so on and so forth. We also were gathered in each other's houses in 10s and 15s so as to have each others protection until the road was open for us. We stayed in Ayios Dometios for four months before we returned home in safety and in 1974 my parents and aunts had to flee with only their sandals to save their lives abandoning all their belongings and houses even their passports...

However, coming back to the story with the 27 Turkish Cypriots in hospital, yes finally research did give the answer to that allegation. Although the British records do not reveal this truth, because evidently the new findings of Packard have not been inserted in the relevant files, as they should have, the truth has been recorded.

The Greek Cypriots never killed them. Packard went back to Cyprus in December 1998 and researched further and came back with the truth. It was published on the 3rd of May 1999, in The Guardian by Peter Preston ex Chief Editor of Guardian titled " An old tale of atrocity shows how easily events can be distorted - In a time of massacres, one survivor must be the truth". (Preston was in Cyprus during 1964 and well acquainted with Martin Packard).

Preston wrote: "... Five months ago, however, Packard was back in Nicosia. he picked up the threads of the old horror. He talked with the Greek Cypriots who have worked with the UN committee tracing " the disappeared" of that time.And he came to realise that the Georghadjis version was hugely inaccurate.

Two or three Turkish Cypriots had died in the general hospital when the Sampson gang came: but not in their beds, in the quarters of the Turkish Cypriot matron. The majority of staff and patients had been evacuated to safety under the personal protection of President Makarios...Packard has now written to the Secretary General (UN)" The scale and manner of any actual killings at the general hosital appear to have had little resemblance to the account I was given"".

So two of the most horrific allegations against the Greek Cypriots a) that of the 27 Turkish Cypriots in the Nicosia General Hospital and b) that of the 3 children and their mother in the bath have been squashed aside as grossly innacurate. The first cleared finally by Packard himself and the second by the Turkish Journalist as I have mentioned in previous comment full naration of which can be found in Costas Gennaris book ' Ex Anatolon'. They in fact were massacred by their own father who had psychological problems but the Turkish side found it convenient for propaganda purposes to blame in unjustifiably on the Greek Cypriots.

Furthermore I notice that you admit that Greek Cypriots were killed during the Turkish invasion in 1974 when you say it was not your people who killed my people in 1974. "Turks who killed Greeks in 74 are not my people i have nothing in common with them". That is a great improvement in your attitude Amina and I appreciate that.

We never said that Turkish Cypriots were not killed during the intercommunal fightings but let us see who started the whole thing first and why. In December 1963 it was the Turkish side that attacked us and that is the very truth, Turkey was importing heavy arms and military personnel to train local TMT members long before. Ankara was in haste to impose its partitionist desires and that is a fact. From thereafter it was, as I have said before a domino effect. When people are attacked they are expected to defend themselves and fighting and hostility always brings atrocities unfortunately and this is the result everywhere in the world where this pattern occurs.

The Greek Cypriots do want to reconcile, do want to live with the Turkish Cypriots again (that is why the government of the Republic offer all those services to the Turkish Cypriots) and we all can do that if we all respect each others human rights. I certainly do not want you to be deprived of your property in the free part if you have one but at the same time I expect you to respect my right to return to my property which my parents and myself worked hard to buy and build and live in it until I was uprooted by the use of force and attack.

I was born do not forget within the Turkish quarter in Nicosia and lived there until we were forced to abandon our rented house ( in fact and ironically we rented the house of the Hodja of Nicosia next to Fegmi Bey) and that only when our Turkish friends and neighbours could not protect us any longer from the mobs of TMT who had massacred quite a number of other Greeks in the Turkish quarter.

Some of the arguments in this block clearly show that real reconciliation is resisted simply because the goal for some is not reconciliation as such but the recognition of a separate state for the occupied area of the Republic of Cyprus. The abolition of the Republic of Cyprus and its substitution with two separate states. And that unfortunately was what the racist Annan Plan provided, that is why Turkey and its imported population, with whom you say you have nothing to do Emina, supported the Annan Plan. And do not forget 35% of the Turkish Cypriots also rejected the Annan Plan are they stupid and people you can disregard, don't they deserve respect and their human right to democratically vote for what they believed?

Finally on this reverted mood of yours Emina, I think we can discuss things calmly and who knows...

Emina
12 November 2007 at 10:50

My mood is not reverted Fanoulla if you read all my contributions they say pretty much the same thing we must accept each others suffering no side can claim the monopoly of pain(Bill Clinton used this phrase about Israel but very fitting to CYprus aswell. The Tukish Cypriots who rejected the Annan plan were the pro division Denktash suppoprters its very telling that Denktash and the Greek Cypriot political machine went for the same position. 30% of GreekCypriots voted yes you also cannot ignore them. I have remained calm throughout and i sympathise with your agitatitation because you lived through it as my mother did and perhaps she would be as angry as you. My contention is that Brian Coleman should not have in his position fueled such a torrent of hatred because when people are inflamed they react in ways which leads to situations like what happened in Cyprus. The truth is when you accept both sides only concerntrating on one is only half of the truth. The Nicosia hospital is not the only example the others include the mass grave at Sandallaris and the massacre of the Turkish Cypriots in Dochni but i dont want a tit for tat debate because one life is precious and irreplaceable it does not have to be a massacre for it to be wrong.

Let me also tell you Fanoulla that it is well known that TMT was a British funded paramilitary group the same as Eoka B was a CIA funded operation. The aftermath of imperialism for Cyprus was bloody and torturous and the sooner we come to terms with that the better do not forget that the British maitain their military presence in Cyprus and the American use the "Turkish" airbase or Lefkoniko (Gecitkale) and never forget that the big white bubble on the Troodos mountains is the key to everything. It listens to the airwave of the entire middle east and eastern Europe without that the West would be as blind as a bat. That is why they give us plans that we will never agree to because after the national question is resolved what remains but to question the position of other imperial powers on our soil who use our island to launch attacks on our neighbours.

Sol
12 November 2007 at 13:25

Land issue;

Didn't Turkish Cypriots in 1960 (before the were forced off their lands between 1963 - 74) own around 30% of the land? (Possible as TC's were often farmers).

I assume that the land registory will keep these records...

Emina
12 November 2007 at 15:11

Yes that is true but a significan proportion of that is the land owned by the EVKAF which is the Islamic Foundation of Cyprus. This is also the case with Greek Cypriot land of which a large and significant proportion is owned by the Church. The Orthodox Church are the biggest land owners in Cyprus and the second biggest land owner is the EVKAF. But you are correct that TC's were by an large an agriculturally based community and owned land beyond their percentage of the population

teacher
13 November 2007 at 00:33

This is an answer to: Fanoulla Argyrou’s blatant distortion of the truth .

First of all let us make everything a bit clearer .

In her posting Ms Fanoulla is pointing to an article written by Peter Preston in 3rd of May 1999 and taking only the parts that are conveniently supporting her views while omitting some parts that show her remarks as inaccurate .

An example in the sentence that has been quoted by Ms Fanoulla . Look at the whole of that part of the text :

Two or three Turkish Cypriots had died in the general hospital when the Sampson gang came: but not in their beds, in the quarters of the Turkish Cypriot matron. The majority of staff and patients had been evacuated to safety under the personal protection of President Makarios. There had still been dreadful carnage. The hospital bodies were lumped with two dozen or so from other parts of the island - but stored in a cave, not incinerated. And then they were buried.

Ms Fanoulla deliberately chose to ignore the sentence that there was a carnage that had taken place . So there had been a massacre but according to Mr. Prescot this was not of the scale that had originally been reported.So I ask Ms Fanoulla how can this squash aside the massacre of innocent Turkish victims , if the number is not 27 but 20 or even say 10 .

Coming back to the report of Mr Preston , the readers here have not been told that on his visit to the island in 1998 , Mr Georghadjis who was the interior minister at the time of the hospital massacre by then was actually himself been killed by EOKA ( maybe for giving this information to Mr Preston) and thus Mr Preston had no way of asking for evidence of the massacre from Mr Georghadjis. Although Mr Preston was seeking the truth he only managed talked to Greek Cypriots and only Greek members of the Committee set up to research into missing people . I ask if this does not show bias at this instance .After the printing of the above article , Mr Tatar , the Turkish Cypriot member of the Committee tabled a question to the Greek side asking for any and all the information on the issue . Upon this the Greek side has said that they had no information on the subject . How on one instance they say they have no further information yet they supposedly can produce evidence that there was no massacre and present this to Mr Preston ?When further probed the Greek side came back with a story that the 27 persons that have disappeared from the Hospital were buried in Ayios Vassilios .

Examination of the bodies recovered from Ayios Vassilios has shown that these bodies , are not the ones from hospital.

So in summary The Greek side have been trying to mix and cloud the issue to hide the fact that they had carried out this massacre .

I will deal with your other distortions of the truth in another article later Ms Fonoulla as it is getting rather late tonight .

But I must reveal another fact here now .

Although Ms Fanoulla pretends that she has just used the 1999 article as a basis for her argument she actually wrote an article in the Greek Simerini Newspaper ( A far right newspaper considered to harbour and nourish fascist views) way back on 18th May 1999 denying this massacre .

So she is not just an ordinary reader , but a professional agent of the Simerini Newspaper ( A far right newspaper considered to harbour and nourish fascist views ) trying to distort the facts of the past .

So Ms Fanoulla , you have been sussed out .

BINGOOO

Fanoulla Argyrou
13 November 2007 at 07:16

The Preston article is there for everybody to read. The accusation was withdrawn through that article and Packard himself wrote to the Un Secretary General putting things right as the article refers. Nobody said people did not die from both sides but it is rather "Fascis" behaviour from you to only see victims from one side and not the other especially when it was the Turkish Cypriots that attacked FIRST the Greek Cypriots in December 1963. I responded to references and I had the right to reply to the relevant reference.

I never use lies and never will.

Yes I report to Simerini newspaper but Simerini is not " a far right newspaper considered to harbour and nourish fascist views" and this constitutes libel against the newspaper and those who write in it. I am conveying this comment immediately to the newspaper manager and at the same time to News Statesman requesting immediate withdrawal and apology from whoever is behind the writer "Teacher".

teacher
13 November 2007 at 09:15

Now now Ms Fanoulla ,

Such a show of animosity at being found out that you are working for Simerini Newspaper ,and had been writing articles denying this massacre way back in 1999 , although you were not in any way privy to the information at that time .

For all to see , in my article I have not at any time denied that innocent people have died on both sides , only corrected the distortions of the truth by yourself , by actually omitting even a part of an article that does not suit your needs.

Coming back to your threats with regards to libel , I would start that by pointing you in the direction of Wikipedia Encyclopaedia in which they describe Simerini Newspapers political allegiance as FAR RIGHT. As to what kind of ideas and views it harbours , I have only pointed out that this is what most of the people consider it to harbour , even among Greek Cypriots . This Tactic of yours is the typical tactic used by our compatriots to shut the truth away and here you have started to demonstrate it in front of everyone to see.

Coming back to your allegation that the Turkish Cypriots attacked Greek Cypriots back in 1963. This is well beyond belief and imagination that a minority will attack the majority of population , in which an organisation of EOKA exists that have managed to fight against 50000 British soldiers and defeat them , thus gaining Cyprus’s independence ( as our compatriots point out in their history books).Would you ask us to believe that Turkish Cypriots attacked Greek Cypriots first under these circumstances. Would you have us believe that Turkish Cypriots have withdrawn from 103 villages for no reason while attacking Greek Cypriots , and started to live only in 3% of the island , while they owned more than 30% of the land .

I think you are stretching the imagination a bit too far , don’t you think?

I challenge you to print the name of the first person that died in the month of December 1963 that triggered the conflict . Also the first shots that were fired towards the Turkish Cypriot students that had gathered in front of Ataturk’s bust in Kyrenia Gate. The bullet marks are still there to be seen.

But in all and in short Ms Fanoulla , all of the postings in this page show that there is a great mistrust and a wide gap at the thoughts of Turkish and Greek Cypriots . Imagine if they are forced to live together , one side will celebrate 20 July as the day they have been saved from Greek Cypriot atrocities , and the other side will consider this as the day when they had lost a battle and 1800 or so people went missing .

So in conclusion the best settlement of the issue is by having two separate states united under a loose federal state . In time when this trust grows they can integrate more.

But we find that our Greek compatriots are opposing this and want to carry on the Cyprus Government as it is in which they had forcefully expelled the Turkish Cypriots since 1963 and as it stands is a state that is governed by an unconstitutional government. Mr Papadopulos has pointed out in his speech at UN ,that his idea of a solution is not actually to give Turkish Cypriots their constitutional rights , but to solve the issue by osmosis ( dissolving Turkish Cypriots amongst the Greek Cypriot majority without giving them their rights as equal partners of the state ).

Talking of Mr Papadopulos , has reminded me another fact which Ms Fanoulla may like to comment about . In 1964 when Turkish Cypriots were being expelled from their homes , forced into enclaves , killed and taken from the roads as they were travelling to their workplace , Turkey threatened to intervene . Mr Papadopulos a minister of the Cyprus Government of the time wrote a letter to United States , threatening to kill all the Turkish Cypriots on the island within one and a half hours if this was to be attempted. This letter is well documented . I ask what mentality could contemplate killing 18% of the population , disregarding their innocence or childhood.

And Ms Fanoulla would ask us to believe that Turkish Cypriots were attacking Greek Cypriots !

She is still in stuck denial stages . That’s one of the reasons why there cannot be any improvement among the communities relations.

Fanoulla Argyrou
13 November 2007 at 10:53

I always use my own name and no pseudo names. I posted my comments just like others did from all sides and never hide the fact that I am a professional journalist for 20 years. For the moment we do not know who all of the others are under small names or pseudo names, ahtough that is each persons right to do so. However, under the circumstances,when you decide to write with your true name and identity and withdraw your libelous reference to a highly respected newspaper and all those people in the political, academic and social elit of the Greek Cypriot society who write (including the British High Commissioner in Nicosia) read and advertise in it then perhaps we can continue this debate in a civilised way if need be.

My line is one and simple and that is also the line of the respected paper Simerini to which I contribute: The Cyprus problem will not be solved through two separate states, or by a racist bizonal bicommunal federation solution like the Annan Plan, but through justice to all and that will not be done unless the Turkish invading army is withdrawn, all settlers are withdrawn and all refugees from both sides are returned to their homes and properties, all missing from both sides are found and suffering of relatives ended (this is an ongoing process through UN and DNA) under one government that of the Republic of Cyprus.

Both communities, those who really mean it when they say they want reunification, and by that we do not mean the manipulated meaning of it of "reuniting" through two states but under the recognised Republic of Cyprus member of the EU too now. Cyprus was never a two piece state but a sovereign state member of the UN, until Turkey decided to impose partition aided by foreign powers and instigated the 1963 attacks on the Greek Cypriots as a result of which both sides suffered and atrocities inevitably and regretably occured. Those who refuse this kind of solution, from both sides, are those who really do not want a proper solution but partitionist policies and separation no matter what. We don't.

Emina
14 November 2007 at 00:28

Fanoulla i would like to assure you that Emina is my genuine name and like you i have also worked as a journalist so am pretty aware of the political allegiences of newspapers in Cyprus and Simerini is accepted as a FAR RIGHT newspaper and no stretch of the imagination could describe it as anything else that is not to say that it can be compared with the far right of the UK am not equating it with say the BNP but in terms of the Cyprus political spectrum it stands as representing views that are furthest to the right. I suppose you believe that as you so proudly put it the social elite of Greek Cypriot society read, write and advertise in Simerini and as an apparent journalist you should know that social elites are generally drawn to right of the political spectrum. Debates about who fired the first shot (am quoting a GC friend here)are irelevant juvenile and pointless the point is who were the oppressed and after independence the oppressed were the Turkish Cypriots it is numerically and physically impossible for it to be the other way round. The commonly accepted account is that a riot in Nicosia led to an attack on a Greek police officer and the response was the the Greek cypriot paramiltary launched an indiscrimate attack on the Turkish quarter of Nicosia. To suggest anything else is extremely strange to say the least.

Chris
14 November 2007 at 02:42

As far as I see it, intercommunal strife in Cyprus began when Britain used Turkish Cypriot auxillary units to suppress the Greek Cypriot majority. That inevitably brought the two main communities of the island into conflict. This was a case of an outside power, using a minority to quell a majority. And what a recipe for disaster that turned out to be. Where else in the world would that not result in utter chaos and suffering for innocent people?

Ibrahim Aziz, in 'The Historical Course of the Turkish Cypriot Community' stated that because of Britain's use of the Turkish Cypriot Corp, Greek Cypriots in their struggle against colonial rule "found themselves facing the Turkish Cypriots. In this way the British started submitting to the Turkish community their plans for partition."

Partition was the game plan of Turkey and many Turkish Cypriots for a long time before 1974. Halkan Sesi, mouthpiece of the Turkish leadership in 1964 stated:

"The Turkish fighters have pledged to fight on until the realisation of partition. The attitude of the Turkish minority has been admittedly one of provoking division and instigating armed conflict with the aim of partition."

And partition could only be realised with the forced uprooting of much of the island's population. Hence the need for conflict.

The following are the words of Emin Dirvana, a former Turkish diplomat:

"I was informed that on 7 June 1958 a bomb had been planted in the Turkish press office in Nicosia by persons who, as was later established, had nothing to do with the Greek Cypriots. The Turks of Nicosia were then incited to be overwhelmed by holy indignation and perpetrated acts similar to those committed on 6 and 7 September 1955 in Istanbul."

In the ITV documentary 'Cyprus, Britain’s Grim Legacy' in 1984, Emin Dirvana went on to say:

"The explosion sparked off a night of riots in Nicosia. Turkish Cypriots burned and looted Greek shops and homes. Soon came counter-attacks and the fighting spread around the island. A friend of mine, whose name must still be kept secret, was to confess to me that he had put this little bomb in the doorway in order to create an atmosphere of tension so that people would know that the Turkish Cypriots mattered."

No one can deny that there was not widespread suffering in Cyprus. But this did not come about by accident, but by the hard work and stoking of flames by powers within and outside of Cyprus to create hatred amongst people who had previously managed to live in peace for a long time.

teacher
15 November 2007 at 13:23

Ms Fanoulla is neatly trying to sidestep the issues that have been raised with my posting .Instead Ms Fanoulla is trying to gain a status of non extremism , and respect by quoting that British High Commissioner is reading the newspaper in question. I am sure most of the other newspapers on the island , like Filelefteros with more than double Simerini’s circulation as well as Politis , are read by the British High Commissioner and advertisements are put in them also . The logic used in this instance is not a proof that Simerini Newspaper’s political allegiance is not to the far right, as stated in Wikipedia Encylopedia , and would keenly await to see the result of libel charges brought upon them by Ms Founoulla.

My name is Cem and I am prepared to even invite Ms Faonoulla for a cup of Turkish Coffee in my house to see our hospitality first hand as long as she can publicly admit to the genocide and attempted ethnic cleansing carried out by Greek Cypriots against Turkish Cypriots. Politis newspaper ( one of the most read newspapers in Greek Cyprus Republic) has printed a whole eight page supplement on 19th August 2007 , giving details and first hand accounts of the mass murder of 106 women and children from Murataga (most of the population of the Turkish village ). In his article Mr Andreas Parashos gives first hand witness reports of two Greek and one Turkish Cypriots of the mass murder and genocide by the Greek Cypriots on 14th August 1974.

How could Ms Fanoulla still deny these genocide and mass murders is beyond belief. She tries to put the blame on only a few EOKA supporters , but fails to mention that Mr Paapadopulos has publicly announced a celebration of “ EOKA YEAR”, last year and handed out 20000 medals to these murderers of innocent Turkish civilians. She very conveniently omits the fact that those responsible for some of these murders , although known by name have not been brought to justice , but handed gold medals for the services rendered.

None of the questions raised have been answered by Ms Fanoulla, especially the one about Mr Papadopulos’s letter openly threatening to exterminate the whole of the Turkish population of Cyprus is a very important one . In UK and most of civilised countries to threaten somebody with killing is a criminal offence carrying a prison sentence and in this instance we have a minister of the Government of Cyprus making this threat of genocide against the minority population , openly with a letter .

Many people believe that he should be put on trial for this .

Ms Fanoulla is giving us the her’s and Simerini’s line on Cyprus as follow:

The Cyprus problem will not be solved through two separate states, or by a racist bizonal bicommunal federation solution like the Annan Plan, but through justice to all and that will not be done unless the Turkish invading army is withdrawn, all settlers are withdrawn and all refugees from both sides are returned to their homes and properties, all missing from both sides are found and suffering of relatives ended (this is an ongoing process through UN and DNA) under one government that of the Republic of Cyprus.

In 1977 Makarios and Denktash reached and signed agreement that the solution to Cyprus problem will be in a “ Bizonal Federated State” . This had been endorsed and accepted by all the relevant sides , including UN , UK and EU. It had been reconfirmed again by another agreement between Denktash and Kiprianu in 1979 . But here we see that MS Fanoulla and Simerini newspapaer , however well she is trying to wrap it up in pretty words such as justice to all , is not accepting the Bizonal solution , but want to return to the singular state of which they had occupied illegally since 1963. According to Cyprus’s constitution , there should be a Turkish Cypriot vice president with a power of veto , and Turkish Cypriot Ministers in the Cyprus Government . Can you give ma one Turkish name that is in the Parliament now Ms Fanoulla?

This shifting of their position and going back on an agreement reached , reminds us of the same tactic that our Greek compatriots have used when Cyprus State was first formed . They had agreed to a power sharing with Turkish Cypriots , but then tried to go back on this agreement by trying to change the constitution , and when Tukish Cypriots opposed it, they done it by force , killing so many innocent Turkish Cypriots How can anyone , under these circumstances expect the Turkish Cypriots to trust Greek Cypriots , when even now they are reneging on their last written agreement with Turkish Cypriots.

.

MS Fanoulla is still trying to convince people that Cyprus problem started in 1974 , and once Turkish Troops leave , the problem is solved .

Wake up Ms Fanoulla , Cyprus problem started with the Greeks idea of ENOSIS , and their attempt of this in 1963 and a repeated attempt of it in 1974. May I remind you that UN troops came to the island in 1964 .

On the issue of bizonal state , the Greek governments of the past 28 years have been negotiating on this issue , on this bizonal basis . Are you telling us that this has been abandoned by your government , and people now , because if that is the case , I think EU , should look at Cyprus’s membership again and re-evaluate it . As Verhaugen publicly announced that he had been tricked and lied to by the Greek Cypriot Government , I think they will take this new stance of Greek Cypriots very seriously.

The erroneous remarks are so many in your articles that I am struggling to find time to deal with them all as well as previously written false allegations ms Fanoulla . In your posting you state that Turkey instigated the 1963 partitioning , when you well know that Makarios’s letter demanding changes to the 1960 constitution , eroding Turkish Cypriots rights was the beginning of the end for Cyprus Government. Can you please explain what AKRITAS plan was for , and what did it entail . Did this plan , of which EOKA member Papadopulos was an architect, not entail the elimination of Turkish Cypriots and seizing of the Cyprus in the name of Hellenism . On 1st of December 1963 , leaders of EOKA and Greek community leaders sworn to ENOSIS cause had a secret meeting in which they had agreed to attack the innocent Turkish Cypriots on the night of 24 December 1963 in accordance with the next phase of their plan to unite the island with Greece. A few trigger-happy EOKA members jumped the gun and shot and killed Zeki Halil and Cemaliye Emir Ali on the night of 20th December 1963 in Tahtakale . With the spreading of this news , there was tension mounting already , when Greek Police force members opened fire with automatic machine guns on a group of secondary school students on their break from Lycee across the road from Kyrenia gate , that had gathered around Ataturks Statue in Kyrenia Gate ,wounding two students Ahmet Abdulkadir and Mustafa Ahmet , thus trigerring the conflict. So you see Ms Fanoulla , you have not been telling the truth about who started killing who first .

Incidentally I would like to point out that the government had issued firearms only to the Greek Cypriot members of the Cyprus Police Force on or before 20th December 1963. My father , a retired police officer , was in a course and training with a group of other Cyprus Police officers numbering around twenty at Police Headquarters in Athalasa . Out of this group only five were Turkish Cypriot Police officers . On 20th my father noticed that only the Greek Cypriot officers were issued with firearms and suspected something was about to happen. The next day , he made an excuse and managed to get e few hours leave to come to Nicosia . Upon his arrival , he heard about the killing of two innocent Turkish Cypriots , and subsequently the unprovoked and indiscriminate machine gunning of students occurred . As fighting erupted all over , he could not return back to Athalasa. Out of the five Turkish Cypriot police Officers on course , only my father and another that had managed to escape and survived.The other three police officers were murdered , and their bodies have still not been recovered. So Ms Fanoulla , how do you expect me to believe you that no innocent Turkish Cypriots were killed between 1963 -1974 when I have first hand evidence that even unarmed Turkish Police officers were murdered in Police Headquarters , for the only reason of being a Turkish Cypriot origin .

Let me also deal with the utter and unbelievable twisting of the truth by Ms Fanualla about the murdered family in the bath on 24th Dec 1963. Ms Fanoulla would like us to believe that a doctor who has been sworn to protect all human life , has managed to escape from the Turkish Military Camp which was in a state of alarm and hence no one allowed to leave , since the fighting had already started , come to the Turkish quarter , murdered his wife and kids as well as shooting and wounding others in the house , and returned back to his base , but unfortunately the same night innocent EOKA members had gone into the area and taken away 200 hostages . Apart from being absurd this is insulting to the logic of an ordinary person .

But put that aside, and let us give a few more details of which I know Ms Fanoulla already knows but is trying to hide. On 21st March 2007 , Politis newspaper has published the confessions of a retired Greek officer Savvas Selis and another EOKA member who would only give his code name as Thisoas , that took part in the attack on 24th December 1963 . In this confession Mr Savvas states that they had carried out a “CLEANSING OPERATION” ( don’t you think it can mean ethnic cleansing Ms Fonoulla?) , and units of the group entered the house that the murders took place firing their guns . Although he was not very close to observe , he says that these people might have been behind a door .

Thisoas in his confession gives a name ( also mentioned by Savvas) of Thasos Marku , taking two hundred prisoners . In his statetement Thisoas mentions that Tasos Marku made a phone call to the headquarters and talked to someone addressing him as minister in his presence , saying “ Mr Minister I am ending the operation , I have some prisoners with me , what shall I do with them ?”. The reply came “ separate , young , women and old from the men so men can be allowed to pee(?)”

With this revelation we have to ask ourselves who can this minister be , that was instigating and ordering the murder of its own citizens. According to the revealed details of the Akritas plan Yorgaci ( minister of interior at the time ) was the leader , Mr Papadopulos his second in command (was also a minister ) . Mr. Klerides ( in his book he states that Mr Papadopulos was the main architect of Akritas Plan , was not actually a minister at the time ) was commanding officer of theadquarters.

When we approach this revelation with logic , Klerides was not a minister at the time so he can be taken out of the list . If the minister was Yorgacis , since he is now dead there would not be any reason not to reveal his name. This leaves us with one name that carries the most probability , and that is of Mr Papadopulos , and given his track record of openly writing a letter threatening to kill all the Turkish Cypriot population of the island written to USA Foreign Office, we can say that the most probable person to order this killing was ,the now president of Greek Cyprus Mr Papadopulos .

It is commendable that our Greek Cypriot friends are trying to protect Mr. Papadopulos , but this cannot include , blatantly distorting the truth and protecting people that have carried out or ordered genocide .

Mike Pagomenos
17 November 2007 at 00:29

True to form, it was reported in the news in the last 24 hours, that the Turks have desecrated the Orthodox Christian Monastery at Halki.

The desecration that Mr Coleman writes about is ongoing and not just in the occupied northern part of the Republic of Cyprus.

Whilst Turkish hands desecrate their mouths spout denial. Instead of apologising for committing Genocide Turks unabashedly claim that Genocide was committed against them in a pseudo-justification.

Isn't it enough that the Turks have turned the majority Christian population of the western coast of Asia Minor in to a minority.

They have also succeeded in doing the same to the northern part of Cyprus and are still bullying the minorities.

Turkey is comparable to a well fed fat cat that is too full to eat the mouse it has just caught. So it plays with its prey just to pass the time.

Emina
17 November 2007 at 03:39

I think you may have forgotten what Turkish Cypriots have constantly been reminded the we are in fact the minority in Cyprus not the Greek Cypriots. I dont think anybody claimed that the Turkish army was a victim of genocide. In your over excuberance to spout hatred you should perhaps proof read your contributions and make sure they add up

YANNIS
17 November 2007 at 09:35

I do not want to dwell too much on this isolated incident apart from pointing out that probably the ancient building was not structurally sound any more, presenting a hazard and danger to people and that’s why it was partially demolished.

HOWEVER, what qualifications does Mr Coleman have to criticise anybody on desecration of historic buildings??!! Read on…

The Ottomans ruled over the Greece for about four hundred years. They converted the Parthenon into a mosque (built Minarettes around it) BUT DID NOT DESTROY the actual temples. Of course after the Ottoman rule these were converted (DESECRATED ??) back to original temples. Then somewhere in the middle of the chaos, the British got into the picture and stole much of the ancient relics. In 1803, Lord Elgin stole the sculptures of the Parthenon as well as one of the Erechtheum Korai and numerous other antipuities. They stole 57 SHIPLOADS of RELICS (DESECRATION IN GRAND SCALE??) from the old temples and shipped to England. Unfortunately some of the ships sank during the journey, thus invaluable historical relics were lost forever, although most reached England. Thus, if you want to see the most beautiful and precious relics of ancient Greece you will have to go to the British Museum in London.

Now who is desecrating, who is looting on grand scale AND WHO IS PRESERVING?? I think the Greeks should put those minarettes back around Parthenon; it would really spice it up a bit.

Mike Pagomenos
17 November 2007 at 12:18

What happened at Halki was not an isolated incident. On the contrary it is common practice by the Turks. Cemeteries, monasteries and churches have all recently been desecrated, demolished and built on in the northern part of Cyprus.

Neither are the "Turkish Cypriots" an ethnically distinct people. Although they are treated as second-class (and third-class) citizens by Turkey.

The vast majority today are Turkish colonists since the muslim Cypriots have also been ethnically cleansed by the Turks. Many of the muslim Cypriots before the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974 were christians who were forced to convert to Islam by the Turks during Ottoman rule.

It was also common practice for the Turks to cut off the heads of christians when they could not afford to pay their taxes and the only option to stay alive was to convert from Christianity to Islam because the Turks did not behead muslims that could not afford to pay their taxes.

Any pseudo-claim of genocide on the island of Cyprus is pure invention to divert attention from the Genocide of the Christians before, during and after Turkish occupation.

Turkey continues to blatantly persecute the Christian minority which used to be a Christian majority on the west coast of Asia Minor and in the northern part of Cyprus.

"Turkish Cypriots" take note. If your grandparents were born on the island of Cyprus. There is a good chance that your ancestors were christians who could not afford to pay their taxes. These christians avoided beheading by converting to Islam and changing their names to muslim names.

The term "Turkish Cypriots" was invented in the early 20th Century in preparation for the formal segregation of the muslim and christian populations. The ultimate step to secure that racist segregation is the Annan Plan which is supported by Turkey, the United Kingdom and the United States (because all three countries gain by it).. The indigenous population of Cyprus gains nothing from the Annan Plan which is why the indigenous population voted NO.

YANNIS
17 November 2007 at 13:33

When someone starts arguing that all Turkish Cypriots are descendents of Christian Greek Cypriots who could not pay their taxes, I think we can safely assume that he has completely lost his marbles and the rest of his arguments deserve no where better than the bin.

WHAT ABOUT THE DESECRATION OF GREEK HISTORICAL TREASURES BY THE BRITISH Mr PAGEMENOS? ANCESTORS OF OUR BRIAN COLEMAN WHO YOU ADMIRE SO MUCH. 57 SHIP LOADS of GREEK TREASURES STOLEN AND SHIPPED TO BRITAIN? What about that Mr Pagemenos? When are you going to complain about that Mr Pagemenos? Or better still when is Mr Brian Coleman going to write about that desecration????

One word of advice Mr Pagemenos, I would stop reading the Sun comic if I were you; it claimed Elvis is still alive and living on the moon; which is more credible than your story. Better still, give them to Fanoulla to base her research on Cyprus.

Mike Pagomenos
17 November 2007 at 15:56

The subject of Mr Coleman's article is Cyprus and the ongoing ethnic and cultural cleansing, by the Turks, of its Christian heritage and the continued denial of the Holocaust of the Christians and the Genocide of the Armenians.

The Orthodox Christian Monastery at Halki is just another example of how Turkey persecutes its christian minority. A minority that used to be a majority on the western coast of Asia Minor and northern Cyprus.

These religious buildings are not falling apart. Turkey does not allow them to be repaired and is not patient enough to watch them fall down. These buildings are regularly violated, damaged, desecrated, converted or demolished.

Ofcourse, a common excuse from the Turkish government is that these buildings are not safe and that they need to be converted or demolished.

The subject is about the past and ongoing persecution of christians by the muslims of Turkey. A persecution that is denied by Turkey on a daily basis whilst it is being committed. A persecution, segregation and apartheid that is supported and reinforced by the Annan Plan and that can only be justified by racists.

YANNIS
17 November 2007 at 20:53

Mr Pagomenos unfortunately (or should I perhaps say fortunately) I don’t have any more time to shoot down your Greek myths and baseless arguments in flames. I must say you are doing that to yourself very well anyway without my help. I am going to a pub in Nottingham with some Christian and Muslim friends of mine and yes some Jews as well. The name of the pub if you are interested and want to drop by is: PITCHER and PIANO. A very big, two story modern pub that has been converted from a desecrated old cathedral in the Centre of Nottingham. Perhaps we should take a leaf out of our British friends and do the same in Cyprus??? The sound effects are fantastic Mr Mr Pagomenos. Answers on a post-card please.

YANNIS
18 November 2007 at 10:52

TUESDAY, MARCH 27, 2007

Greek Helsinki Monitor on Persecution

This is the full report by the Greek Helsinki Monitor on Macedonians in Greece. READ IT AND WEEP Mr Pagemenos. If you don't trust me, download the report yourself.

Greece: Denial of minorities and persecution of minority rights activists

(download the Report)

April 3, 2006

Human rights defenders, who advocate for minority rights in Greece, a country that persistently refuses to recognize the existence of national minorities in their territory, face hostility and persecution, and are treated as threats to public order and national security.

In the course of one year (May 2004 – April 2005), the three key international bodies of experts on minority rights, the UN’s CESCR and HRC and the CoE’s ECRI, have published comprehensive criticism of Greece’s persistent refusal to respect its international commitments by even just acknowledging the existence of two national minorities, to whom belong all those Greek citizens who identify themselves as Macedonians or Turks. The relevant texts are appended to this statement. Characteristically, ECRI noted that:

“Even today, persons wishing to express their Macedonian, Turkish or other identity incur the hostility of the population. They are targets of prejudices and stereotypes, and sometimes face discrimination, especially in the labour market.”

The UN Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (CESCR), in turn, urged Greece:

“to reconsider its position with regard to the recognition of other ethnic, religious or linguistic minorities which may exist within its territory, in accordance with recognized international standards, and invite[d] it to ratify the Council of Europe Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities (1995).”

Finally, the UN Human Rights Committee urged Greece to

“review its practice in light of Article 27 of the Covenant… [and] noted with concern the apparent unwillingness of the government to allow any private groups or associations to use associational names that include the appellation Turk or Macedonian.”

The Greek state’s response was to confirm the ban of Macedonian and Turkish associations, and, at the same time, harass or attack human rights defenders who disseminate these texts and advocate minority rights.

The “Home of Macedonian Civilization” continues to be denied registration (most recent ruling in 2003 with appeal hearings only in September 2005 and decision pending through March 2006) by the courts sixteen years after it first applied and eight years after Greece was convicted by the ECHR for having refused the registration of that association.

In 2005, the Supreme Court refused the registration of the “Turkish Women Cultural Association of the Rodopi Prefecture.” It also dissolved the “Turkish Union of Xanthi,” operating legally since the 1930s.

The rulings are exemplary in showing why the Greek state considers the acknowledgment and the advocacy of the existence of such minorities a threat to public order and national security as well as promotion of foreign state interests. In the “Turkish Union of Xanthi” case it is stated (emphasis added):

“The association’s aim is illegal and contrary to Greek public order, since it is in contradiction with the international treaties signed in Lausanne, as it is attempted openly to present that in Greece (the area of Western Thrace) there is a national Turkish minority, while according to these treaties only the presence of a religious Muslim minority is recognized in the area. The reference to the Turkish identity does not reflect some remote Turkish origin but a current quality as members of a Turkish minority that would exist in Greece and would pursue the promotion within the Greek state of state interests of a foreign state and specifically Turkey. The association with its actions (…) gravely endangers Greek public order and national security (…) and raises a non-existent minority problem of ‘Turks’”

In the “Home of Macedonian Civilization” case it is stated (emphasis added):

‘The formulation of the associations’ articles is unclear and can cause confusion regarding its real goal… The use of the term ‘Macedonian culture’ intensifies this confusion by connecting it with a non-existent language, described as ‘makedonski’… The recognition of such an organization contains a direct danger to public order and provides an opportunity for exploitation by foreign agents, who have tried from time to time, unsuccessfully, to fabricate a historically non-existent ‘Macedonian nation’… For all the reasons mentioned above, we reject the application.’

It is no wonder then that human rights defenders advocating for the rights of the two minorities are considered themselves dangerous to public order and foreign agents, and every effort is deployed to keep them out of Greece, muzzle them and/or attack them.

On 4 August 2005, Gjorgi Plukovski, of the Canada-based “Macedonian Human Rights Movement International,” was denied entry into Greece by way of the Republic of Macedonia because he “is considered to be a threat to public order, internal security, public health or the international relations of one or more of the Member States of the European Union” (Document available at www.mhrmi.org/press/05/plukovski.pdf). A month earlier, on 6 July, Mr. Plukovski had entered Greece by way of Italy and remained until 24 July. Hence he is not on the alert list for the purpose of refusing entry in all Schengen countries: only Greece considers him a threat to public order and internal security. Mr. Plukovski is a Canadian citizen of Macedonian descent born in Greece in 1938 and becoming a child political refugee in 1948.

On 14 August 2005, Thessaloniki’s main daily “Makedonia” censored “out of principle” the regular Sunday column of writer and human rights activist Thanasis Triaridis that was to have an article with the title “A short note on a banned language,” summarizing the history and the reasons for the prohibition on speaking Macedonian in Greece, as well as Greece’s refusal to recognize national minorities, such as the Macedonian and Turkish ones.

In early October 2005, Erol Kasifoglu, President of the Solidarity Association of Western Thrace (BTTDD), was not allowed to enter Greece at the Greek-Turkish border. Kasifoglu, who was stripped of his Greek citizenship in 1987, on the basis of the now abolished Article 19 of the Greek Citizenship Code, had previously entered Greece many times with a Schengen visa. This time, Kasifoglu was issued a document that states that he is a threat to public order and national security. In the past, Selahattin Yύldύz, Tahsin Salihoglu, Halit Eren, Taner Mustafaoglu and Burhaneddin Hakgόder, then directors of BTTDD, had also been refused enthry in Greece with the same justification.

On 13 October 2005, Mr. Theo Alexandridis, GHM legal counsel, was held at a police station for four hours after having participated, along with other human rights activists, in various demonstrations against the expulsion of Roma children from their school, subsequent to pressure exerted by certain parents of non-Roma children in the “Psari” neighbourhood in Aspropyrgos, near Athens. Mr. Alexandridis had gone to the police station to lodge a complaint against the parents, responsible for violent acts during those demonstrations. Once he had filed the complaint, Mr. Alexandridis was not allowed to leave or meet with his colleagues at GHM. He was subsequently told that he was under arrest. Two hours later, he was told that he would not be judged in the framework of read-handed procedure and was released. The president of the Pupils’ Parents Association lodged a complaint against Mr. Alexandridis for “libel” and “defamation”. Police did not send the case file to the court until January 2006 and through March 2006 the case has not been assigned to an investigator.

On January 20, 2006, the Head of the Patras Appeals Prosecutor’s Office, Mr. Anastassios Kanellopoulos, said in a radio interview that “perpetrators, instigators and accomplices” of Roma “will be called to take the stand”, specifically including as potential targets representatives of the Greek Helsinki Monitor. This declaration was made in reference to the case of Roma families living in the Makrigianni area, city of Patras (Cultural Capital of Europe 2006), who were threatened of being forcibly expelled, despite a decision of the Magistrate’s Court of Patras (312/2005). GHM had offered legal aid to these families.

Yet, Mr. Anastassios Kanellopoulos ordered on that day the launching of an urgent preliminary investigation into allegations that the Roma of Makrigianni threw litter in a river, following many protests by local residents against this situation. While explaining the various aspects of the judicial investigation, Mr. Kanellopoulos underlined that its objective was to identify the perpetrators and instigators of these acts, as well as their accomplices. When queried by a journalist, the Prosecutor stated that all Roma are crime perpetrators and also admitted that he would examine the role of GHM representatives, known for their struggle for the rights of the Roma. “If it is proved that they too have helped the Roma, then be assured that they will be called to the stand”, the Prosecutor noted

Mike Pagomenos
18 November 2007 at 12:10

Some information about Cyprus in this article published yesterday in a Turkish Newspaper. Also mentions when the Halki Monastery was closed (forcefully and against the will of its clergy). Evidence of racial discrimination is published on a daily basis concerning Cyprus. Greece has much larger ethnic minorities because it doesn't ethnically cleanse them like Turkey.

Turkish Daily News

A Bird's Eye View

Saturday, November 17, 2007

Advena Avis

It has been a long time since we birds last chirped on relations between the EU and Turkey but today we decided to do so since we would like to make some comments on the Commission's progress report on Turkey that was published on Nov. 6. Overall we birds think that the report was better than expected since progress was observed in many sectors like free movement of goods, financial services, trans European networks, science and research, free movement of capital and also in improving the efficiency of the judiciary that is very important for Turkey. Of course no progress was achieved on certain issues of a political nature, like the non-fulfillment by Turkey of its obligation of full and nondiscriminatory implementation of the Additional Protocol to the Association Agreement.

As a result and we quote now from the report: "... in December 2006 the Council decided that accession negotiations will not be opened on eight chapters relevant to Turkey's restrictions regarding the Republic of Cyprus and that no chapter will be provisionally closed until the Commission confirms that Turkey has fulfilled its commitments... Since the Council's decision of December 2006 Turkey has made no progress toward fully implementing the Additional Protocol." No progress has been attained also on the issue of freedom of religion, particularly for non-Muslim minorities, who also face problems of lack of legal personality, restricted property rights as well as difficulties in education. We quote again from the report: “Restrictions on training of the clergy remain. Turkish legislation does not provide for private higher religious education for these communities and there are no such opportunities in the public education system. The Halki (Heybeliada) Greek Orthodox Seminary remains closed... The Ecumenical Patriarch is not free to use the ecclesiastical title Ecumenical on all occasions..." Also no progress was observed on the chapter of minorities as the Greek minority continues to encounter problems with education and property rights.

While we congratulate the Turkish human administration for achieving progress on the economic issues and also on receiving positive comments for the holding of elections in Turkey in a very democratic manner, the big issues still remain open and will need to be resolved sooner than later. If we chirp about the reopening of the Theological Seminar we do it because we cannot understand why it remains closed. We were told that if it is reopened then other Muslim foundations will ask to open their own Theological Seminars. We cannot agree with that logic since the Halki Seminar had been functioning until it was closed in 1971. The two issues cannot be related or compared. As far as the religious title of ecumenical is concerned, this is purely an ecclesiastical matter of the Greek Orthodox Church and while Turkey is not under any obligation to recognize it, at least it should not prevent the patriarch from using it. He is after all a citizen of this country. But if you continue to progress on all these matters and issues, you might end up in the EU much sooner than anyone expects. So surprise humanity and Europe. And most of all surprise yourselves. But you have to implement the acquis communautaire on a much larger scale than now. We are confident that you will. Ponder our thoughts dear humans of Turkey for your progress and benefit.

YANNIS
18 November 2007 at 22:33

Mr Pagomenos, I am sending you two interesting articles. First one will help to educate you on the desecration of Muslim religious buildings and antiquities in Cyprus by the Greeks which Mr Coleman did not mention in his racist article. Perhaps this will help to put what might have happened in Halki or elsewhere into some context and give a little perspective/depth to the matter.

The second one is by your countryman Loucas Charalambous who admits openly that it was the Greeks who attacked the Turks in 1963 first. He says: =>The leading part in this game was played by ‘Akritas’, a paramilitary organisation established two years earlier with the blessings of Archbishop Makarios. Its leader was the then Interior Minister Polycarpos Yiorkadjis, and his lieutenant was Tassos Papadopoulos, the current president of our state ……..READ ON Mr Pagomenos read on

1.0 PERSECUTION of ISLAM in CYPRUS

Between the period 1964-1974 over 100 mosques, shrines and other precious Ottoman and Islamic antiquities were destroyed deliberately. This took place in 103 towns and villages which the Turkish Cypriots were forced to abandon. The persecution of Moslem Turks of Cyprus between 1963-1974, was put to an end after the rightful intervention of Turkey on 20 July 1974, in accordance with the Treaty of Guarantee.

2.0 A BLACK ANNIVERSARY

By Loucas Charalambous.

Thousands of people, Greek and Turkish Cypriots, lost their lives in the bloody games started by the apprentice political wizards who were ruling Cyprus at the time. The leading part in this game was played by ‘Akritas’, a paramilitary organisation established two years earlier with the blessings of Archbishop Makarios. Its leader was the then Interior Minister Polycarpos Yiorkadjis, and his lieutenant was Tassos Papadopoulos, the current president of our state –

For many years thereafter, our political leadership fooled Greek Cypriots into thinking that it was the Turkish Cypriots alone who were responsible for the conflict. Officially, the events of December 22 are referred to as “the Turkish mutiny”. It took 40 years for the shocking eyewitness testimonies of Greek Cypriots to come to light, testimonies that demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt how guilty our leaders were. According to these testimonies, ‘Akritas’ stooped so low as to set fire to the Greek school of Ayios Kasianos (the perpetrator has admitted to this) or plant a bomb at the statue of EOKA hero Marcos Drakos, on the orders of Yiorkadjis himself (to his credit, an officer by the name of T. Chrysafis gave this testimony) in order to frame the Turkish Cypriots and thus justify the devastating actions of that paramilitary group! And yet, 42 years down the line, the state television, daily Phileleftheros and the radio station of the Zeus group, have the mind-boggling audacity to still speak of a “Turkish mutiny”. None of our political leaders today has the guts or the gallantry to admit or speak the truth.

NOW, WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO ADMIT THE TRUTH MR PAGOMENOS??? WHEN?????

Mike Pagomenos
19 November 2007 at 00:32

The article just posted above is a total fraud. There is no original source because the article has been made up.

Is that the very best that you can do?

You know what gave it away? It was "Persecution of Islam on Cyprus". The very first line.

Why don't you quote original sources of where articles like these are picked up?

Did you write this one yourself?

Why don't you post with your real name?

Quote original sources and make sure that the article is genuine before you spread it around like manure.

Emina
19 November 2007 at 01:42

You really are a sad racist ill informed little man the murder of Turkish Cypriots between 1963 and 1974 is admitted by the Republic of Cyprus Government this is not an issue of contention why are you pursuing the denial of something that is documented and accepted part of Cypriot history. What is your agenda ???? Why do you question his name ????? and on the issue of whether TC ancestors were generally converts you are wrong the Turks were not the first Muslims or only Muslims to arrive in Cyprus Black TC's originate from the Sudan, there is also a significant portion of Cypriot Roma who are classified as Turkish Cypriot due to their religion. My DNA (tested in a lab) places my maternal ancestry in the Arabian peninsula. So do not base your analysis of Cypriot ancestry on old wives tales and unproven heresay. Besides i do not care if my ancestor 500 years ago was a Christian it does not mean that i am, religion is based on belief and faith not ethnicity. The article is by Oktay Oksozluler be a bit my intelligent and type the phrase into Google and than jump to conclusions. The second part is a separate article for which he quotes the author or hadnt you noticed!

Mike Pagomenos
19 November 2007 at 02:32

The article(s) are a fraud. Are you claiming that they are genuine?

Then post the original source. Where and when were these articles published first? The fact that the author is Turkish does not inspire confidence. Nor does the fact that I cannot find his name on any search engine. Do you have any worthwhile sources to quote or are they all bogus like your aliases and many of your arguments?

List the names of the 100 mosques. Substantiate the false claims if you can.

You all hide behind your aliases and publish garbage. You accuse people of being racist but are not prepared to back anything up with your real names and have a real problem with knowing the difference between fact and fiction.

Whilst orthodox christians are not allowed to repair their religious buildings in Turkey or in the occupied part of Cyprus they still go out of their way to preserve mosques that are in Greece and the Republic of Cyprus. The reason they do it is to be good neighbours and to avoid offending muslims.

Why doesn't the government of the Republic of Turkey return the favour?

Why can't you be good neighbours?

Why can't you personally write a letter to a Turkish newspaper that says "it is not right to desecrate religious buildings of other faiths, and that it is worse than despicable that government employees do it during working hours".

By the way, you have also kindly confirmed that "Turkish Cypriots" are not a distinct ethnic group. Thank you for that.

Mike Pagomenos
19 November 2007 at 03:50

I'll clarify that again just in case it fell on deaf ears.

Last week on Tuesday, Turkish government employees (Forestry workers) desecrated and partly demolished the Orthodox Christian Monastery and Theological School at Halki during working hours.

That did not happen in the 1950s, 1960s, or 1970s. It didn't happen in 1915. It is not a fantasy event either. It happened in November 2007 last week.

The Turkish government's policy of systematically persecuting christians has never stopped and is ongoing.

The Theological School at Halki is no ordinary theological school. It is a school where Patriarchs were educated. The Ecumenical Patriarch is the Orthodox Christian equivalent of the Pope. A school that would still be used today if it wasn't for its forced closure by the Turkish government.

You know, the words "Ecumenical Patriarch". The words that the Ecumenical Patriarch is not allowed to use to describe his position in Turkey because the government of Turkey refuses to recognise the Patriarch's position even though that position existed before Islam.

Can anybody accuse the Republic of Turkey of not being tolerant of other religions? Yes. I am. Take me to court if you like. Like Nelson Mandela I'd gladly go to prison over it and I don't need to bomb, terrorize, hurt anybody or be a racist to make that point. Nelson Mandela is no racist. He's proved that time and time again. He is the most tolerant man on this planet.

Is anybody from Turkey or from the Turkish diaspora going to make any effort to apologise for desecrating and partly demolishing the monastery at Halki?

Is anybody from Turkey going to apologise for demolishing cemeteries, churches, and monasteries in northern Cyprus?

Of course the Republic of Turkey, that model of secular democracy and religious tolerance, is never ever going going to acknowledge what it has done. They are going to carry on converting them in to casinos, museums, toilets, building houses over their ruins, turn them in to tourist resorts, spread tarmac on them to turn them in to car parks. The Republic of Turkey is totally scrupulous in covering up all the evidence of its religious intolerance. The history books will be rewritten. They will claim that christians were never there and that the Turks have been there since the dinosaurs. That the villages and roads with Turkish names have always been called by Turkish names and that they never had Greek names.

Meanwhile those 100 mosques, that you claim were demolished, in the Republic of Cyprus, are preserved and cost a fortune to preserve year-on-year, and are still there.

Sol
19 November 2007 at 12:53

Mike Pagomenos

If that's true thats terrible, is it true though? Would you mind putting up some references...

Sol
19 November 2007 at 12:58

Fanoulla Argyrou

You have rescribed yourself as a "reseacher" before in the London Greek news. Is that research in a journalist meaning or a acedemic meaning. If the latter have you had any of your research publish and submited to peer review? I would be interested in reaing it.

Sol
19 November 2007 at 13:09

Mike Pagomenos - Here is one example of the destruction of Turkish religious buildinsg, the Grand Mosque in Phahos

http://www.un.org/documents/ga/docs/55/a551032.pdf

“We noted with regret the complete destruction of the main mosque in Paphos. The whole area has since been flattened to give way for a widened road junction and a car park. There is no memorial to the existence of the mosque. Below the road a Turkish bath complex remains hidden in the rubble and vegetation awaiting restoration. The Turkish Cypriot cemetery by the nearby St. Sophia Mouttalos Mosque is dilapidated”.

I am completely against the damage and neglect of old important buildings. How much of the damage to buildings in the north is due to lack of funds, I don't know, but at least these buildings are still standing. They can be restored, there has not be an attempt at removing every trace of the people who these buildings belong to....

Mike Pagomenos
19 November 2007 at 14:13

Here are two news references that can be found by searching for Halki on Google News:

Asia News

and

www.ekathimerini.com

Unfortunately, a letter sent to the UN by a Turkish government representative is not a credit worthy reference. Neither is the "independent" reference quoted independent or accurate. Terminology used within that letter is standard Turkish propaganda that ignores standard UN terminology. To put this in to context it's a bit like listening to Jack the Ripper complaining how one of his victims put blood on his shirt.

The problem is that there have been too many victims, there were victims last week in Halki in November 2007 and there are going to be more victims.

Leo
19 November 2007 at 17:06

Mr Pagomenos, read the article written by a Greek Cypriot below that appeared in Cyprus Mail a few months ago and wake up to the realities!!

‘You know me well, you know my history’

By Loucas Charalambous

“YOU KNOW me well. You know my history; my strengths and my weaknesses.” This was how President Tassos Papadopoulos closed his televised speech, last Monday night, announcing that he would seek re-election.

AKEL chief and presidential candidate Demetris Christofias had indirectly referred to Papadopoulos’ history when he announced his decision to stand a few weeks earlier. “No Turkish Cypriot suffered the slightest injury from the action of AKEL,” he said.

But it is well-known that the Turkish Cypriots had suffered more than slight injuries in Cyprus between 1963 and ’64. It is also well-known that the other two presidential candidates, Ioannis Kasoulides and Costas Themistocleous were too young at the time to have any involvement. It is clear that Christofias’ insinuation was related to the activities of the current president, who had played a leading role back then, as deputy leader of the clandestine Akritas group.

This group had sparked the inter-communal conflict with the aim of changing the Constitution and destroying the State that had been established by the London-Zurich agreements. When Papadopoulos speaks today about preventing the dissolution of the Cyprus Republic, he forgets that in reality, this state, which had been established in 1960, was dissolved 44 years ago.

If the above seem exaggerated to some readers, I advise them to read the notorious Akritas plan, which was the most important document in the history of the Cyprus problem. If you have not read that, you cannot have a proper understanding of the problem. Everything that followed was revealed and outlined with shocking cynicism in this document. It clearly states that the organisation was set up with the aim of overturning the London-Zurich agreements. It also forecast that such an action would lead to armed conflict with the Turkish Cypriots.

In short, the document destroyed the myth about the “Turkish mutiny”, which our leadership cultivated for years, and revealed the truth in the most emphatic way about the horrific terrible events that sealed Cyprus’ fate. Apart from the document, today there are also testimonies, like the one by former officer Chrysafis Chrysafi, who revealed that six months after the establishment of the new Republic work on the setting up of the organisation had begun. He also said that, three months before December 1963 (when the inter-communal conflict began), he had been informed by a leading member of the Akritas group that armed conflict with the Turkish Cypriots was imminent. Chrysafis also revealed that the organisation had placed a bomb at the statue of EOKA hero, Marcos Dracos, so it could blame the clandestine Turkish Cypriot organization TMT and create a climate of hatred towards the Turks, a few days before the clashes.

It has often been written that the author of the Akritas plan was Papadopoulos. He has never denied this. The information was confirmed by Glafcos Clerides in an interview he gave to Niyazi Kizilyurek and is contained in a recently-published book. Clerides said: “I believe that most of the work for the preparation of this document was done by Tassos Papadopoulos rather than [Interior Minister Polycarpos] Yiorkadjis… Yiorkadjis, on many occasions when he wanted to draft something, because he did not have the legal knowledge, would call Tassos, which was why he made him deputy leader.”

Christofias’ oblique reference was related to the activities of the Akritas organisation, which caused severe injuries to Turkish Cypriots, as has been made evident by their remains which were found recently in wells outside Nicosia. From 1963 to ’67 more than 600 Turkish Cypriots were killed.

It was to the injuries suffered by these Turkish Cypriots that Christofias was referring and it was no coincidence that Papadopoulos forgot to respond to him. While the president claimed that we knew his history, he seems to have some reason not to remember much history. He told the Khaleej Times in an interview published on September 4, 2004: “From 1963 to 1974 how many Turkish Cypriots were killed? The answer is none.”

Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2007

Mike Pagomenos
19 November 2007 at 18:03

I think that hens scratching around in dirt would come up with better quality sources, references and articles than the lot of you have. No dates. No URLs. Rubbish sources.

No evidence that 100 mosques were destroyed. Nor have you provided the list of their names. Instead you quote more dodgy articles from more dodgy sources.

So are you all still in denial about what happened in Halki last week? If I ask you about Halki in 50 years time are you going to pretend that someone made it up?

YANNIS
19 November 2007 at 21:52

Let me oblique with the date, title and the URL address Mr Pagomenos. I am also sending you the full text again Mr Pagomenos just in case you blinked and missed it.

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/

A black anniversary

By Loucas Charalambous

(archive article - Sunday, December 24, 2006)

DECEMBER 22 is the most significant date in the history of the Cypriot state. Had the events of this day not taken place, the history of the Republic of Cyprus would have been completely different to the one we know today. And Cyprus would not be the partitioned island with two states, a Turkish army, thousands of settlers and tens of thousands of refugees. Had the Republic been a polity with serious political leaders, the 22nd of December might have been established as a national day of prayer and reflection. In the schools, the day would be dedicated to teaching our students about the historic events of December 22, 1963, with discussions in the classroom, the core message being that such a day must never again be allowed to happen.

Needless to say, none of the above has transpired. It would be utopian to expect something like that. Besides, is it any coincidence that no newspaper, no radio or television station, and of course none of our political leaders have made a single comment about the anniversary? December 22, 1963 is a date that no one – least of all our President – wants to remember, a date they would rather erase from the calendar if possible. It is the date marking the start of the intercommunal clashes, a conflict which brought to this small island death, destruction, displacement of populations, the Green Line, the de facto carving up of the country and, ultimately, partition. Thousands of people, Greek and Turkish Cypriots, lost their lives in the bloody games started by the apprentice political wizards who were ruling Cyprus at the time. The leading part in this game was played by ‘Akritas’, a paramilitary organisation established two years earlier with the blessings of Archbishop Makarios. Its leader was the then Interior Minister Polycarpos Yiorkadjis, and his lieutenant was Tassos Papadopoulos, the current president of our state – or at least what’s left of it in the aftermath of the heroic follies of 1963 and the Turkish invasion 10 years later. No one will ever be able rationally to explain the paranoid behavior of Makarios, who steered matters toward conflict, despite the strong reaction of Greece but also of Turkey.

For many years thereafter, our political leadership fooled Greek Cypriots into thinking that it was the Turkish Cypriots alone who were responsible for the conflict. Officially, the events of December 22 are referred to as “the Turkish mutiny”. It took 40 years for the shocking eyewitness testimonies of Greek Cypriots to come to light, testimonies that demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt how guilty our leaders were. According to these testimonies, ‘Akritas’ stooped so low as to set fire to the Greek school of Ayios Kasianos (the perpetrator has admitted to this) or plant a bomb at the statue of EOKA hero Marcos Drakos, on the orders of Yiorkadjis himself (to his credit, an officer by the name of T. Chrysafis gave this testimony) in order to frame the Turkish Cypriots and thus justify the devastating actions of that paramilitary group! And yet, 42 years down the line, the state television, daily Phileleftheros and the radio station of the Zeus group, have the mind-boggling audacity to still speak of a “Turkish mutiny”. None of our political leaders today has the guts or the gallantry to admit or speak the truth. It will take many more years before what we said in the beginning shall come to pass – that a real leader will come forward who will establish December 22 as a day of national reflection, a memorial day dedicated to the thousands of casualties it caused on both sides of the ‘Green Line’.

Well the microphone is now yours Mr Pagomenos. Please speak into the microphone, we are listening.

YANNIS
19 November 2007 at 22:42

Extracts from letter dated 6 September 2001 from the Chargé d’affaires a.i. of the Permanent Mission of Turkey to the United Nations addressed to the Secretary-General

URL ADDRESS: http://www.un.org/documents/ga/docs/55/a551032.pdf

.

The Greek Cypriot administration, which attempts to present itself as the

champion of conservation of cultural heritage, has, since 1963, been trying to

eradicate all traces of the Turkish-Muslim heritage of Cyprus. During the period

from 1963 to 1974, mosques, shrines and other holy sites in Turkish villages all

around the island were destroyed by the Greek Cypriots. Today the remaining

Ottoman Turkish shrines in South Cyprus have been targets of repeated arson

attacks. For instance, on 3 December 2000, there was an arson attack on the

Ömeriye Mosque, a significant Muslim shrine located in South Cyprus.

Furthermore, owing to the Greek Cypriot administration’s deliberate policy of total

neglect, the Turkish-Muslim heritage in South Cyprus is under threat of

disintegration. This utter disrespect for the Turkish-Islamic heritage has also been

confirmed by independent sources, including Mr. Ymenus van der Werff, General

Rapporteur of the Subcommittee on the Architectural and Artistic Heritage of the

Committee of Culture and Education of the Council of Europe, who reported the

following in his report published as a document of the Council of Europe on 2 July

1989 (AS/CULT/AA (41) (1), para. 5.3):

“We noted with regret the complete destruction of the main mosque in

Paphos. The whole area has since been flattened to give way for a widened

road junction and a car park. There is no memorial to the existence of the

mosque. Below the road a Turkish bath complex remains hidden in the rubble

and vegetation awaiting restoration. The Turkish Cypriot cemetery by the

nearby St. Sophia Mouttalos Mosque is dilapidated”.

Mr Pagomenos, are you seriously suggesting that both the Chargé d’affaires a.i. of the Permanent Mission of Turkey to the United Nations AND Mr. Ymenus van der Werff, General Rapporteur of the Subcommittee on the Architectural and Artistic Heritage of the Committee of Culture and Education of the Council of Europe were reporting lies to the UN Secretary General??!!!!

Ladies and Gentlemen how can anyone live side by side with these people??? These people apparently want to come and live next door to us in Northern Cyprus as neighbours!!!! I think our brothers, the Turkish Peace Keeping Force, should stay firmly where they are for a long time to come.

Mike Pagomenos
19 November 2007 at 23:31

Thank you. Testing ... 1 ... 2 ... 3 ... testing.

That URL is the home page of the Cyprus Mail website. It doesn't link to the article quoted above. So no verifiable archive source. I can't see an archive that contains this article.

The Cyprus Mail is hardly an unbiased source. It's another mouth-piece for propaganda.

But this is an embellished Turkish propaganda version of history that ignores the most important events and makes a big deal out of not very much.

This particular article can be compared to the football match commentary that you would get from a Turkish colonist playing football, at night and in the dark, with one eye closed whilst running around, in heavy rain, with a magnifying glass to enhance the size of a very muddy football.

December 22, 1963 is minor in the overall scheme of things. The puppet-masters in the United Kingdom, Turkey and the United States were pulling the strings and the people of Cyprus were the victims. Greece was just another puppet (a victim) and not a puppet-master.

The puppet-masters wanted to make sure that Cyprus would be a partitioned island with two states, with a Turkish army, thousands of colonists and tens of thousands of refugees. That always was an end-game of the puppet-masters. Let's not forget the British and American bases too.

The start of intercommunal problems was commissioned by the British in the late 1950s and planned a lot earlier than that.

Haven't you got anything better than this. You don't need to post everything twice. I can refer to earlier postings. I can also recommend some hens that can scratch the dirt for you.

You still haven't answered my questions though.

1. You must have made up a list of 100 destroyed mosques in the Republic of Cyprus by now. You've had plenty of time to do the research.

2. So did they say anything in the Turkish press (in the Turkish language) about Halki or was it overlooked completely? I suspect that if they did write about it they might suggest that a freak tornado did the damage. Or a local earthquake threw down part of the building. Or was it a plague of flying pigs? Or better still, did a determined team of termites manage to make it happen in less than a day with enough time left over to pickup their Turkish government paychecks?

YANNIS
20 November 2007 at 00:09

I recommend you read this article at least 3 times a day Mr Pagomenos and only then your symptoms might disappear. I don’t want the people in white coats to take you away. I am therefore sending it again. And as for people like you coming back to live amongst the Turkish Cypriots as neighbours…, well I think you can carry on dreaming Mr Pagomenus because it aint gona happen; not for another 100 years. We do not trust you and the people you represent. We are happy to live together with our Turkish brothers under the protection of the Turkish Peace Keeping Force who gave their young lives to protect us from total annihilation by your people.

If you don’t know how to surf the net it’s not my fault Mr Pagomenos; try a little harder. I want you to know that I am doing this for you Mr Pagomenos, because I care for you, so here we go again;

A black anniversary

By Loucas Charalambous

(archive article - Sunday, December 24, 2006)

DECEMBER 22 is the most significant date in the history of the Cypriot state. Had the events of this day not taken place, the history of the Republic of Cyprus would have been completely different to the one we know today. And Cyprus would not be the partitioned island with two states, a Turkish army, thousands of settlers and tens of thousands of refugees. Had the Republic been a polity with serious political leaders, the 22nd of December might have been established as a national day of prayer and reflection. In the schools, the day would be dedicated to teaching our students about the historic events of December 22, 1963, with discussions in the classroom, the core message being that such a day must never again be allowed to happen.

Needless to say, none of the above has transpired. It would be utopian to expect something like that. Besides, is it any coincidence that no newspaper, no radio or television station, and of course none of our political leaders have made a single comment about the anniversary? December 22, 1963 is a date that no one – least of all our President – wants to remember, a date they would rather erase from the calendar if possible. It is the date marking the start of the intercommunal clashes, a conflict which brought to this small island death, destruction, displacement of populations, the Green Line, the de facto carving up of the country and, ultimately, partition. Thousands of people, Greek and Turkish Cypriots, lost their lives in the bloody games started by the apprentice political wizards who were ruling Cyprus at the time. The leading part in this game was played by ‘Akritas’, a paramilitary organisation established two years earlier with the blessings of Archbishop Makarios. Its leader was the then Interior Minister Polycarpos Yiorkadjis, and his lieutenant was Tassos Papadopoulos, the current president of our state – or at least what’s left of it in the aftermath of the heroic follies of 1963 and the Turkish invasion 10 years later. No one will ever be able rationally to explain the paranoid behavior of Makarios, who steered matters toward conflict, despite the strong reaction of Greece but also of Turkey.

For many years thereafter, our political leadership fooled Greek Cypriots into thinking that it was the Turkish Cypriots alone who were responsible for the conflict. Officially, the events of December 22 are referred to as “the Turkish mutiny”. It took 40 years for the shocking eyewitness testimonies of Greek Cypriots to come to light, testimonies that demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt how guilty our leaders were. According to these testimonies, ‘Akritas’ stooped so low as to set fire to the Greek school of Ayios Kasianos (the perpetrator has admitted to this) or plant a bomb at the statue of EOKA hero Marcos Drakos, on the orders of Yiorkadjis himself (to his credit, an officer by the name of T. Chrysafis gave this testimony) in order to frame the Turkish Cypriots and thus justify the devastating actions of that paramilitary group! And yet, 42 years down the line, the state television, daily Phileleftheros and the radio station of the Zeus group, have the mind-boggling audacity to still speak of a “Turkish mutiny”. None of our political leaders today has the guts or the gallantry to admit or speak the truth. It will take many more years before what we said in the beginning shall come to pass – that a real leader will come forward who will establish December 22 as a day of national reflection, a memorial day dedicated to the thousands of casualties it caused on both sides of the ‘Green Line’.

NOW READ THIS AT LEAST 3 TIMES A DAY

Mike Pagomenos
20 November 2007 at 01:06

Post it as often as you like. It's a false and biased version of history posted by someone with an alias and without a verifiable source reference. A totally meaningless and useless posting.

By the way. The Green Line was not there in 1963. See the end of the last paragraph of the article. No relevance to Dec 22, 1963 whatsoever.

The intercommunal clashes began in the late 1950s and they were initiated by the British.

So ... have you got that list of 100 mosques yet. I didn't think so.

Have you come up with an excuse for what happened at Halki yet?

Isn't the real reason for Halki (in November 2007) an example of how the government of the Republic of Turkey has almost no religious tolerance?

The same religious intolerance that segregated muslim Cypriots from christian Cypriots.

With a little help from those who wanted to build permanent military bases on the aircraft carrier that is known as the island of Cyprus.

Don't you think that's a much more reasonable explanation than the above story?

Mike Pagomenos
20 November 2007 at 01:48

Trying to see if I could find anything about this "main mosque in Paphos" claim. Why don't they call the mosque by its name. It's a very strange that they call it "main mosque".

Does it look anything like this one?:

http://www.mikemccormac.co.uk/Cyprus%20Pages/C_P0734267.php

Mike Pagomenos
20 November 2007 at 02:08

Or is it in this list of mosques?

How much money is the Republic of Turkey spending on keeping Churches in good condition throughout Turkey and the occupied part of northern Cyprus? (when the Republic of Turkey is not knocking them down)

Strange how Turkey claims that mosques with no names have been knocked down in the Republic of Cyprus when Turkey demolished part of a monastery with a name in Halki last week.

YANNIS
20 November 2007 at 12:06

Now read it again Mr Pagemenous. And do not forget to do again in 8 hrs time.

A black anniversary

By Loucas Charalambous

(archive article - Sunday, December 24, 2006)

DECEMBER 22 is the most significant date in the history of the Cypriot state. Had the events of this day not taken place, the history of the Republic of Cyprus would have been completely different to the one we know today. And Cyprus would not be the partitioned island with two states, a Turkish army, thousands of settlers and tens of thousands of refugees. Had the Republic been a polity with serious political leaders, the 22nd of December might have been established as a national day of prayer and reflection. In the schools, the day would be dedicated to teaching our students about the historic events of December 22, 1963, with discussions in the classroom, the core message being that such a day must never again be allowed to happen.

Needless to say, none of the above has transpired. It would be utopian to expect something like that. Besides, is it any coincidence that no newspaper, no radio or television station, and of course none of our political leaders have made a single comment about the anniversary? December 22, 1963 is a date that no one – least of all our President – wants to remember, a date they would rather erase from the calendar if possible. It is the date marking the start of the intercommunal clashes, a conflict which brought to this small island death, destruction, displacement of populations, the Green Line, the de facto carving up of the country and, ultimately, partition. Thousands of people, Greek and Turkish Cypriots, lost their lives in the bloody games started by the apprentice political wizards who were ruling Cyprus at the time. The leading part in this game was played by ‘Akritas’, a paramilitary organisation established two years earlier with the blessings of Archbishop Makarios. Its leader was the then Interior Minister Polycarpos Yiorkadjis, and his lieutenant was Tassos Papadopoulos, the current president of our state – or at least what’s left of it in the aftermath of the heroic follies of 1963 and the Turkish invasion 10 years later. No one will ever be able rationally to explain the paranoid behavior of Makarios, who steered matters toward conflict, despite the strong reaction of Greece but also of Turkey.

For many years thereafter, our political leadership fooled Greek Cypriots into thinking that it was the Turkish Cypriots alone who were responsible for the conflict. Officially, the events of December 22 are referred to as “the Turkish mutiny”. It took 40 years for the shocking eyewitness testimonies of Greek Cypriots to come to light, testimonies that demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt how guilty our leaders were. According to these testimonies, ‘Akritas’ stooped so low as to set fire to the Greek school of Ayios Kasianos (the perpetrator has admitted to this) or plant a bomb at the statue of EOKA hero Marcos Drakos, on the orders of Yiorkadjis himself (to his credit, an officer by the name of T. Chrysafis gave this testimony) in order to frame the Turkish Cypriots and thus justify the devastating actions of that paramilitary group! And yet, 42 years down the line, the state television, daily Phileleftheros and the radio station of the Zeus group, have the mind-boggling audacity to still speak of a “Turkish mutiny”. None of our political leaders today has the guts or the gallantry to admit or speak the truth. It will take many more years before what we said in the beginning shall come to pass – that a real leader will come forward who will establish December 22 as a day of national reflection, a memorial day dedicated to the thousands of casualties it caused on both sides of the ‘Green Line’.

Dont forget Mr Pagomenous 3X a day. Symptoms should disappear in a week.

Tom Paine
20 November 2007 at 12:21

Yannis and Mike for crying out loud stop behaving like children! This is now reading worse than an article on Israel with all the lunatics from either side who fail to see any fault in their own people's actions. Greek Cypriots behaved disgracefully towards Turkish Cypriots, the British behaved disgracefully in exploiting all the bad feeling and the Turkish behaved disgracefully in invading. No-one is clean in all of this.

Robert Powell
20 November 2007 at 12:26

Or what Tom, you'll tell your Mummy? Incidentally were you referring to the insane, Nazi-loving Nadav Katz who after bothering us for weeks about his rogue state seems to have crawled back into his lair again. Either that or the asylum nurses discovered he had got internet access...

Discussions on Cyprus, Armenia/Turkey, Israel - they really do expose what shits people are.

Mike Pagomenos
20 November 2007 at 13:01

Alright, so you are not going to provide any evidence to substantiate the claim that 100 mosques were destroyed in the Republic of Cyprus. Instead you talk about one mosque with no name being destroyed in Paphos. Turkish propaganda works in mysterious ways.

And you aren't going to acknowledge that the monastery of Halki was part destroyed by government employees last week. A monastery that does have a name and that was desecrated last week.

Nor are you going to acknowledge that the Republic of Turkey is guilty of wholesale religious intolerance.

Nor are you going to recognise the Genocide of the Armenians or the Holocaust of the Christians in Asia Minor that happened mostly between 1915 and 1923. Boy oh boy is that a mistake. The egg yolk is going to roll down all your faces on this issue forever. This denial will cost the Republic of Turkey big time. Especially when you continue to persecute christians and demolish churches and monasteries (like the one in Halki last week).

Moreover, the Republic of Turkey accuses the Republic of Cyprus and Greece of doing all the bad things that Turkey has done to them. It "substantiates" its claims with false history lessons about how it all happened to the muslims of Cyprus. They do this at the same time as they continue to ethnically cleanse Cypriots in the occupied part of the island and their culture (by knocking it down and building over it).

When you get constructive criticism you respond with rubbish. You don't respond with your real names. You use multiple aliases. You post doctored articles or articles that have come straight off the Republic of Turkey's government printing press with unsubstantiated claims.

You don't need me or anybody else to condemn you. You're doing it to yourselves. Wishing you all the best of luck because you are going to need it.

Sol
20 November 2007 at 13:26

Mike

The name of the Mosque was "Cami-i Cedid". Along with the School next to it it was destroyed by Greek Cpriot troops in 1964. Of the other 100 or so sites I unfortunatly do not have the names of them, but I am sure if you write to the representiave office of the TRNC in London they may well be able to help you.

As for Haiki, I note your references. I also note that they are the only articles about this. As the media don't seem to be interested is it possible that it is not quite as bad as you are saying?

I would though agree that Turkey should open the seminary, and work with the Patriarch, it would I feel not just be a good gesture to the Greeks but also very posative for Turkey.

As for religious intolerence, it is interesting to note the number of Chruches open in places l;ike Istanbul and Anakara compared with Athens. There is that good aold Christian saying about taking the plank out of ones own eye before taking the straw out of your brothers...

Also that UN report may have been by Turks but it quoted a EU report. Unfortunatley both sides have been absolutely beastly to each other. Until both sides can admit this, I don't see much hope for reconciliation. That is why I very strongly support the lifting of the Emabrgoes against the north. It seems that is a growing opinion...

Mike Pagomenos
20 November 2007 at 17:07

Thank you for providing a name. But still no reference and posted by an alias (mosque by no name by a man with no name). There is not one single reference about Cami-i Cedid in Paphos on Google. And why wasn't the name mentioned in the letter written by the Turkish government to the United Nations. And now you are telling me that there was a school next to it as well to make it sound like it is similar to Halki. This is exactly what the Turkish propaganda machine does. It has perfected the art. They do unto you and then tell you that you did it to them. In a week or so you'll find a reference on Google about it as they put the plaster in the cracks of their propaganda.

Yes, you have made a good point that there are only two references on Google for Halki and surprisingly the more detailed article was published on an Italian website. The event happened exactly one week ago.

The fact that newspapers in the United Kingdom and the United States have not mentioned the event makes the media and the government complicit by allowing Turkey to persecute its minority christian population. Another proof that they want to maintain a segregated Cyprus and that they continue to appease the Republic of Turkey.

Also, the Patriarch can't kick up a stink about it because the Republic of Turkey will give him an even harder time than he already has to put up with.

Another interesting proof of this complicity was the way that the Annan Plan was published. The people of the Republic of Cyprus (and that includes Cypriots in the northern part of Cyprus) were not allowed to read the Annan Plan before the morning of the day of the vote. The Annan Plan was published just after midnight on the morning of the day of the vote.

It is not a small document. A document that requires study and thought. A document that you have to read several times. The United Nations compelled Cypriots to vote before they understood exactly what they were voting for.

Also, Turkish colonists, who are not Cypriots, who have been brought on to the island by the Republic of Turkey since the invasion of 1974 were also allowed to vote (against the interests of Cypriots). ok ok I know some of you have lived there for decades and have had children and blah blah blah The fact is that Turkish colonists vote like Turks and not like Cypriots.

The point that I am trying to make regarding the Annan Plan was that it was a setup to achieve what Turkey, Britain and the United States would like to see on Cyprus and it was always totally against the interests of Cypriots (whatever their ethnic origin or religious heritage). That's why they published it at the last possible minute. To pull the wool over the voters eyes.

Mike Pagomenos
20 November 2007 at 17:28

How did the Cypriots put up with it all since the late 1950s! Not much different from the way that Cretans had to face the Germans during and after the Battle of Crete.

I can highly recommend a documentary DVD about the Battle of Crete called "The 11th Day".

See www.the11thday.com

They dispatch to anywhere in the world.

By the way, the Cretans won. Cypriots are going to win too albeit via a more complicated long-winded route. Justice will prevail and the Republic of Turkey and its chronies will rue the day they messed up Cyprus.

YANNIS
21 November 2007 at 00:41

Here is another UN document with TWO INDEPENDENT OBSERVERS from the COUNCIL of EUROPE reporting on the destruction of Turkish-Muslim heritage in Cyprus.

http://www.un.org/documents/ga/docs/55/a55646.pdf

United Nations A/55/646.S/2000/1115

Letter dated 22 November 2000 from the Permanent

Representative of Turkey to the United Nations addressed to

the Secretary-General

Allegations regarding the .destruction and plundering of cultural heritage. in

Northern Cyprus have been conclusively refuted not only by the Turkish Cypriot

side but also by independent sources, including the relevant Committee of the

Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe. Mr. van der Werff, General

Rapporteur of the Subcommittee on the Architectural and Artistic Heritage of the

Committee on Culture and Education of the Council of Europe, who had come to the

island with a delegation of experts to study the situation regarding cultural property

in both North and South, in paragraph 5.3 of his report, which was published as a

document of the Council of Europe on 2 July 1989 (AS/CULT/AA (41)1), stated:

We saw no churches destroyed, though St. George in Limnia (in the North) was

listed as such. More recently, a Council of Europe Rapporteur on Cultural Heritage,

Mrs. Vlasta Stepova, who visited both sides of the island in November 2000, also

confirmed that there was no vandalism of cultural monuments in the Turkish

Republic of Northern Cyprus.

It is, in fact, the Greek Cypriot side which has been trying since 1963 to

eradicate all traces of the Turkish-Muslim heritage of Cyprus. During 1963-1974,

mosques, shrines and other Islamic holy sites in 103 villages across the island were

destroyed, including the Grand Mosque in the town of Paphos in South Cyprus. In

this connection, paragraph 5.3 of the aforementioned report of the Council of

Europe is revealing:

We noted with regret the complete destruction of the main mosque in

Paphos. The whole area has since been flattened to give way for a widened

road junction and a car park. There is no memorial to the existence of the

mosque. Below the road a Turkish bath complex remains hidden in rubble and

vegetation awaiting restoration. The Turkish Cypriot cemetery by the nearby

St. Sophia Mouttalos mosque is dilapidated.

Today, the Greek Cypriot side continues to show utter contempt for what is left

of the Turkish-Islamic heritage in South Cyprus where shrines are under threat of

disintegration due to total neglect. The existing mosques in South Cyprus such as

the historic Bayraktar Mosque, Hala Sultan Tekke Mosque and the Ömeriye Mosque

have been the target of bombing and arson attacks over the years.

So I have given you some more names of Mosques you have bombed and burnt down in Cyprus Mr Pagemenos; and in due course more will follow. So who is vandalising whose historic monuments in Cyprus Mr Pagomenos??

Perhaps if you did not completely wipe off the main mosque in Paphos from the face of the earth it would have had a URL address on Google to-day Mr Pagomenos. Can you give me the URL address of a single church in Cyprus that had the same fate Mr Pagomenos??

But what a ridiculous suggestion that if anything hasn’t got a URL address on Google then it doesn’t exist!!! And everything has to be backed up with reference to a URL address; otherwise it’s crap. Well, since Mr Coleman’s article hasn’t got a single URL address quoted in it then we can safely conclude that it is total and utter crap; to be honest it would have been equally crap even if it did. And SOL, I wouldn’t bother giving your name to Mr Pagomenos mate, because he might ask for your address, phone number and birth-cirtificte next :-)

I hope this shows clearly to everyone what the Turkish Cypriots had to put up with in Cyprus between 1963 to 1974. And I can tell you it was WORST THAN HELL. I was there and have got the t-shirt and the scars to prove it. Long live the Turkish Peace Keeping Force who came to our rescue and long may they stay.

As for your threats against Turkey Mr Pagomenos, just remember this: Before you have the chance to attack Turkey, you have to deal with the Turkish Cypriots first and remember where that got you in 1974.

Before I forget, can you give me the URL address of your source which says that all Turkish Cypriots are descendents of Greek Cypriots who converted to Islam and became Turkish because they could not pay their taxes and therefore faced the death penalty???

Mr Pagomenos the isolated incident at Halki(Heybeli ada), which we have very little to go by at the moment, disappears into insignificance compared to the enormous problems, i.e. embargoes, facing us to-day in Cyprus that needs to be resolved urgently. I rather focus on these than speculate as to what happened to his monastery and pass judgement when we know the full facts.

Mike Pagomenos
21 November 2007 at 03:29

Either you don't understand or most likely you don't care and you don't want to understand.

That's not a United Nations document. It's written by a representative of the Republic of Turkey (since the United Nations does not recognize the TRNC) and is supported by commissioned independents.

You will find more relevant facts in "Alice in Wonderland" than in letters sent to the United Nations from the "TRNC". The document attempts to justify things that the Republic of Turkey (a great big country) has done to the Republic of Cyprus (a very small country) by claiming that the same has been done to it.

If anybody is following this. Which I very much doubt because it is a total waste of time. The above posting is 100% pure bonafide Turkish propaganda.

One of the mosques listed above is particularly significant to muslims and nobody in their right mind would cause any damage to it. If any damage is done it is guaranteed that the government of Republic of Cyprus would repair it properly.

www.mfa.gov.cy

Nobody will lavish better care on these mosques than the government of the Republic of Cyprus and that includes the Republic of Turkey which prefers to spend its money on offense (I used the word offense because it overspends on defence).

My earlier analogy is worth embellishing. It's like Jack the Ripper complaining because one of his victims has got blood on his shirt. But most of it is fake blood that he has put on his own shirt so that he's got something to complain about.

Denktash himself has admitted to bombing mosques in the 60s. If the "TRNC" took the trouble to segregate the details of the mosques bombed by muslims and those bombed by christians.

Woody Allen said something like "comedy equals tragedy plus time". Cyprus has had a long history of tragedy. Woody Allen could make the funniest movie ever out of it because I doubt that he could find more tragedy spread over more time anywhere else in the world.

Mike Pagomenos
21 November 2007 at 04:01

This correspondence about the Armenian Genocide is well worth reading. The first letter is by a Turk. The second letter is by an Armenian.

"An open letter to the Armenian Diaspora

Thursday, October 18, 2007

If we will start listening to your narrative, that will not be because we are pushed into a corner by the politics of a powerful lobby, but because our hearts are touched by the memoirs of a terrible tragedy

Mustafa AKYOL

Dear all,

A few days ago a new friend of mine who happens to be an American Armenian played some beautiful songs for me that come from the deepest roots of her ethnic tradition. While I enjoyed the numinous rhythms of that magnetic Armenian music, I realized how similar they were to the tunes of the Turkish classical music that I have grown up hearing. "Despite all the political warfare," I said to myself, "alas, look how similar we are." I actually have a similar feeling when I drive along the magnificent mosques and palaces of Istanbul, some of which were built by Armenian architects – men in fez who devoutly worshipped Christ and proudly served the Sultan.

Well, we were the children of the same empire, weren't we? We actually lived side by side as good neighbors for centuries until the modern virus called "nationalism" descended upon us. And then hell broke loose.

A war of two narratives:

I know what you think about that hell, especially about its most horrific episode, the one that took place in the year 1915. Your grandmothers must have told you about the plunderers, killers and rapists who attacked them and countless fellow Armenians. You call the whole tragedy "the Armenian Genocide" and try to convince the parliaments of the world to accept that definition. You also think, I presume, that we Turks are monsters who not only committed that horrible crime, but also refuse to take responsibility for it even after nearly a century.

This is how you see history and the present moment, right? Well, as a Turk, let me say that I understand you. Because I see that you sincerely believe in the accuracy of the historical narrative that you were raised on. How else could you have responded to that?

However, please note that there is another narrative about the tragedy of 1915, and that is what we Turks have been raised on. Our grandmothers told us that Armenians of the time collaborated with the Russian invaders and started to kill our people. Then, the narrative goes, our people started to kill the Armenians in order to both to protect themselves and to take revenge. "They killed us and so we killed them" is the summary of what 99 percent of the Turks know and think about what you call genocide. And just like you do, they sincerely believe in the accuracy of their historical narrative.

So there are two different accounts of what really happened in 1915. I know that in the Western academic world your narrative has gained much more support, but there are serious non-Turkish scholars who tend to agree with the Turkish version, too. When I read the works of professor Guenter Lewy recently, for example, I was convinced that what my grandmother told me was really true.

Of course I am no expert on the issue. I don't have enough knowledge to decide whether the truth lies in your narrative, in our narrative, or somewhere in between. But I am open to learning more and reconsidering my position. "Follow the evidence," one of my core principles reads, "wherever it may lead." And, believe me, that there are so many people in Turkey who think the same way.

Pushing the wrong way:

Now since we are getting to know each other, let me be a bit more blunt and take on what you have just done by convincing the U.S. Congress to pass a resolution on "the Armenian Genocide."

If you think that acts like these will push us Turks to be more self-critical and initiate an internal discussion that will lead us to consider your narrative about 1915, you are daydreaming. The reality is quite the contrary. Foreign pressure will make Turkish society only more reactionary. Grounds for internal discussion will vanish. Moreover, our ultra-nationalist nuts will go crazier than ever. Their most militant ones might well target, once again, liberal intellectuals and our Armenian citizens. You are simply fuelling the fire.

The leaders of Turkey's Armenian community, including Patriarch Mesrob Mutafyan II, have been warning you about these dangers and urging you to stop playing this resolution game. But sadly, you don't ever listen to them. You accuse them for lacking courage and having a defeatist psychology. But how do you know that you yourselves are not the victims of another psychology – that of the diaspora? Social scientists repeatedly say that diaspora communities tend to go fanatic. Have you ever considered taking a hint?

If you would like to hear some friendly advice, here it is: If you really want to see more Turks reflecting on your narrative about the tragedy of 1915, initiate a genuine dialogue. Try to convince not Mrs. Pelosi and her colleagues, but us, the Turks. Write more books and articles, create better movies and Web sites, and organize fair conferences and seminars telling us about your story. And do these not as propaganda tools against the Turks, but as communication efforts toward them.

Convey your message calmly, in other words, and it will be heard. But don't try to impose it onto us. We are not a nation of monsters, but we do have a stubborn side. When foreigners start to dictate our history to us, we tend to revert back to our grandmothers' stories. And if we will start listening to your narrative, that will not be because we are pushed into a corner by the politics of a powerful lobby, but because our hearts are touched by the memoirs of a terrible tragedy. Sincerely,

Mustafa Akyol

A fellow Anatolian

==========================================

A long open letter to Turks

From Armeniapedia.org

from Raffi Kojian

Copyright (c) 2006, Raffi Kojian, all rights reserved

I'm writing this letter after reading Mustafa Akyol's open letter to Armenians.

I think his was a well written, thoughtful letter that helped many Armenians to understand an open minded Turks position and thoughts.

This letter, I hope, will help you understand us. I hope that I can show you what your government has been doing to you as well, and the consequences.

Background

First, let me say, I have followed Turkish-Armenian relations very closely, followed developments as they occurred, and often read many articles from the Turkish press. I have also traveled to the homeland of my grandparents in Marash and Kayseri – so far from Ethiopia where I was born, so far from California where I grew up, and so far even from Yerevan, where I live. So these are not thoughts from out of the dark, but the generalizations I may make are simply my observations, and should be considered no more than that.

We have not been allowed to have a normal dialogue, primarily because your government has done so much to prevent it - from the closing of our land borders, to the criminalization of the mention of the Armenian Genocide, even by Turks abroad. Many of you think that Armenians in the Diaspora are raised to hate Turks – most of us are not. We are simply taught our history, and most have never actually met a Turk in person. If you tell a child such a horrible truth, and that child never has a chance to meet a Turk in person, then a Turk is not real, not a person, and the emotions/feelings a child will harbor are a natural consequence which is hard to overcome. The reason most Armenians have never met a Turk of course, is the genocide itself.

The Genocide

As for the truth, there is no doubt of what happened, and your government knows this well. Many of you already know the truth of what happened, and many more of you suspect that your government – as is often the case with governments – is lying to you. You want to believe them of course, because the truth in this case is not pleasant at all, and then you worry about the consequences of admitting it was a genocide even more than whether you are being lied to.

Why do I say your government knows the truth? When Heath Lowry was penning letters for the Turkish Ambassador to America, he often referred to the Armenian Genocide without quotes or doubt – something he would never have dared do if he had thought that it could cause offense for his employer. It is clear from the exchange – which was accidentally mailed to Holocaust scholar Robert Jay Lifton – that Heath Lowry, Ambassador Nuzhet Kandemir, and by extension Kandemirs bosses in Ankara all believe the genocide happened. Their only concern then is how best to repress recognition of it. This exchange, which is well documented analyzed in Holocaust and Genocide Studies, Vol. 9, Number 1, Spring 1995, pages 1-22 can be found online and is well worth your time to read. Perhaps though you should consider with even greater weight the simple fact that the Turkish government, which has spent tens of millions of dollars repressing genocide recognition worldwide, which has allowed relations with countries like Switzerland, France and Canada to temporarily suffer over the genocide issue, and who keep proposing to study the subject further with Armenia, have never managed to pay for a single solid book to be written which any scholar can point to as a proof that a genocide did not happen. Not even a preliminary paper on the topic.

Now for the irrefutable truth itself. Yes, it was genocide no matter how you slice it. When the US Congress debates whether to recognize it, you should note that debate centers around whether it will offend Turkey and harm military ties, not once does a Congressman say they are against recognizing it because it did not happen. The world has not been censoring the topic like Turkey has, and 92 years after the events, a very solid, indisputable chain of events is documented which neatly falls under the definition of genocide. Many Turks parrot their government's arguments that it was not genocide. Let me address two of them:

-"But Armenians were a sixth column, they were fighting for the Russians, they killed some Turks, etc." - Folks, this is not an excuse to commit genocide, and it does not excuse genocide. If Armenians had not been so oppressed, most of them would not have preferred Russian rule, but that is all irrelevant to whether the acts against the Armenians were genocide or not. -"But the Armenians were just being relocated, and some died, perhaps there were some excesses, but it was not genocide." - If this were the case, then they would have been allowed to actually move. Forget the fact that the government did not make a single effort to house or feed the Armenians along the deportation routes straight into the desert, they were not even allowed to take their own belongings and money to feed themselves. They were across the board attacked by their own Turkish soldier escorts, raped, murdered, attacked (again with Turkish soldiers watching) by Kurds, kidnapped, etc. Most who made it to the desert were killed there. There was not exception to this pattern, and this could not have happened without central government orders and direction. The intent cannot be any clearer. The fact that these unarmed people went without any resistance, like sheep to their deaths is further proof that there could have been no serious claim that it was done to eliminate a threat. -"But look! There are still Armenians in Istanbul!" This tiny remainder, who is so downtrodden and oppressed to this day, is neither something to be proud of, nor proof that there wasn't a genocide in Anatolia.

In addition to this, let me add, that if there was any truth to the claim that Armenians were a threat, and the intent was not extermination, then explain why, after all the men of approximate ages 15 to 60 had already been wiped out, the women, children and elderly were still deported. Could there have been any threat left?

Larry Derfner wrote in the Jerusalem Post on October 31, 2007 the following in response to the infamous philosophy of "This is a matter for historians to decide,":

"The historians, however, decided a long time ago. More than 125 Holocaust scholars - including Elie Wiesel, the late Raul Hilberg, Deborah Lipstadt, Daniel Goldhagen and Yehuda Bauer - have signed ads in The New York Times demanding acknowledgment that the Ottoman Turks committed genocide against the Armenians.

"Wiesel testified in Congress on behalf of such a resolution. The International Association of Genocide Scholars - which is studded with Jewish names - holds the same view as a matter of course.

"SOMEWHERE around three reputable historians disagree. They are led by Bernard Lewis, who may be the world's foremost scholar of Islam, but who, among world scholars, is certainly the foremost enthusiast of Turkey.

"There are probably fewer historians who doubt the Armenian genocide than there are scientists who doubt evolution. Maybe we should reserve judgment on evolution, too."

Need more convincing? The Turkish Armenian Reconciliation Commission – which had a majority Turkish members – primarily associated with the Turkish government and primarily people who had publicly said it was not a genocide, decided to have a neutral third party study the issue, and issue a report. They regretted the decision and tried to prevent the report, and ended up disbanding the group, but the report by the International Center for Transitional Justice was completed regardless, and is also online. The summary of the conclusion is: "The crucial issue of genocidal intent is contested, and this legal memorandum is not intended to definitively resolve particular factual disputes. Nonetheless, we believe that the most reasonable conclusion to draw from the various accounts referred to above of the Events is that, notwithstanding the efforts of large numbers of "righteous Turks" who intervened on behalf of the Armenians, at least some of the perpetrators of the Events knew that the consequence of their actions would be the destruction, in whole or in part, of the Armenians of eastern Anatolia, as such, or acted purposively towards this goal, and, therefore, possessed the requisite genocidal intent. Because the other three elements identified above have been definitively established, the Events, viewed collectively, can thus be said to include all of the elements of the crime of genocide as defined in the Convention, and legal scholars as well as historians, politicians, journalists and other people would be justified in continuing to so describe them."

On June 13, 2005 the International Association of Genocide Scholars wrote a letter to PM Erdogan stating there was no need for his call to study the issue further with Armenia, there was plenty of study already and it was clearly genocide. They included 6 points which I will include below – but the letter is well worth reading:

The Armenian Genocide is corroborated by the international scholarly, legal, and human rights community:

1) Polish jurist Raphael Lemkin, when he coined the term genocide in 1944, cited the Turkish extermination of the Armenians and the Nazi extermination of the Jews as defining examples of what he meant by genocide.

2) The killings of the Armenians is genocide as defined by the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.

3) In 1997 the International Association of Genocide Scholars, an organization of the world's foremost experts on genocide, unanimously passed a formal resolution affirming the Armenian Genocide.

4) 126 leading scholars of the Holocaust including Elie Wiesel and Yehuda Bauer placed a statement in the New York Times in June 2000 declaring the "incontestable fact of the Armenian Genocide" and urging western democracies to acknowledge it.

5) The Institute on the Holocaust and Genocide (Jerusalem), and the Institute for the Study of Genocide (NYC) have affirmed the historical fact of the Armenian Genocide.

6) Leading texts in the international law of genocide such as William A. Schabas's Genocide in International Law (Cambridge University Press, 2000) cite the Armenian Genocide as a precursor to the Holocaust and as a precedent for the law on crimes against humanity.

The mountain of evidence is so great, I could go on and on. Once you start to delve into it, then you can imagine how an Armenian is skeptical that any educated person could have even briefly looked into the matter and claim it was not a genocide. If you believe that half of what the New York Times wrote at the time is true, or half of what Ambassador Morgenthau recounted is true, and you don't believe it was a genocide, it is only because you don't want to believe it. What other way can I see it?

What to do today

Now, moving on from the genocide itself, where are we? Well as you know, the genocide has become big news in Turkey. Of course it is usually still in quotes, and preceded by "Armenian say", but overall there is a new dialog within Turkey. This is a great development, but the cost has not been small. Armenians in Turkey, and Turks who have come to accept the genocide both usually try to tell Armenians on the outside to keep quiet, not to push too hard, to allow more time. But that can't happen, it's not realistic nor I think productive. Realistically, you cannot ask a victim to shut up in order to allow the perpetrator of a crime to come to terms with it himself. It is not normal, human, nor fair. Yes, I know the genocide was a crime that was not committed by any Turk alive today, but the crime of denying it is a daily fact of live in Turkey and by many Turks abroad, and Armenians have waited almost a century for a simple apology, recognition and reparations. Should we be asked to wait some more? As for the request to not press now, not to push, because there is now a dialogue in Turkey, to this I say the dialogue would have never come if we had not pushed so hard for worldwide recognition, and continued pushes will only stimulate further discussion.

As Turkey continues to try to debate the genocide, the country and people appear detached from reality, and rather than coming to terms with something that happened so long ago, it continues to haunt them in a way that Germans today are liberated from. Apologizing and giving reparations is, in the long term, in Turkey's interest. I know it seems convenient for me to say this to you, but really, when a foreigner meets a Turk in the west, the one thing they usually know about Turkey is that it is continuing to lie about the genocide, and has not apologized. Turkey has abnormal relations with Armenia still due to the genocide. Turks who take their government policy a step further, end up murdering peacemakers like Hrant Dink, thinking they are doing their country a great service, and clearly a number of Turks - including the police who arrested them agree with this approach. The only way to get past all of this, to remove the psychological burden, is to come clean.

Conclusion

Having learned much about Turks, again and again it is our similarities that stand out so strongly, not our differences – a fact noted time and again by Armenians and Turks who spend some time together – but the simple mention of the genocide, something no Armenian can brush under a rug for any reason usually creates a wall with most Turks, or even worse, a dismissive comment. That has to change. Like Jews and Germans, we need to be able to have made peace and justice with our past, so we can sit next to each other as neighbors have to, talk about every subject without barriers – even the genocide – and eat our great cuisines, listen to our magical music, and finally live at peace with each other.

After all this I've said however, trying to explain our point of view, in the end perhaps the best way for you to understand us is to imagine what it's like to be in our shoes. Knowing that all of our people were murdered and deported from their homes, and those that survived have had to face a massive international campaign to hide the truth. For most of that time we had no country of our own to even raise the issue internationally. Ask yourselves, like one Turk did, Would you wish to be an Armenian in 1915?

YANNIS
21 November 2007 at 08:50

Now read and understand this Mr Pagomenos before we understand naything else. Written by a fellow Greek Cypriot in a reputable Newspaper wih a URL address provided earlier. Destruction of peples lives are far higher on the agenda than desecration of religious buildings, both Muslim or Christian.

When you have managed to come to terms with this, we will talk other things. So here we go again:

A black anniversary

By Loucas Charalambous

(archive article - Sunday, December 24, 2006)

DECEMBER 22 is the most significant date in the history of the Cypriot state. Had the events of this day not taken place, the history of the Republic of Cyprus would have been completely different to the one we know today. And Cyprus would not be the partitioned island with two states, a Turkish army, thousands of settlers and tens of thousands of refugees. Had the Republic been a polity with serious political leaders, the 22nd of December might have been established as a national day of prayer and reflection. In the schools, the day would be dedicated to teaching our students about the historic events of December 22, 1963, with discussions in the classroom, the core message being that such a day must never again be allowed to happen.

Needless to say, none of the above has transpired. It would be utopian to expect something like that. Besides, is it any coincidence that no newspaper, no radio or television station, and of course none of our political leaders have made a single comment about the anniversary? December 22, 1963 is a date that no one – least of all our President – wants to remember, a date they would rather erase from the calendar if possible. It is the date marking the start of the intercommunal clashes, a conflict which brought to this small island death, destruction, displacement of populations, the Green Line, the de facto carving up of the country and, ultimately, partition. Thousands of people, Greek and Turkish Cypriots, lost their lives in the bloody games started by the apprentice political wizards who were ruling Cyprus at the time. The leading part in this game was played by ‘Akritas’, a paramilitary organisation established two years earlier with the blessings of Archbishop Makarios. Its leader was the then Interior Minister Polycarpos Yiorkadjis, and his lieutenant was Tassos Papadopoulos, the current president of our state – or at least what’s left of it in the aftermath of the heroic follies of 1963 and the Turkish invasion 10 years later. No one will ever be able rationally to explain the paranoid behavior of Makarios, who steered matters toward conflict, despite the strong reaction of Greece but also of Turkey.

For many years thereafter, our political leadership fooled Greek Cypriots into thinking that it was the Turkish Cypriots alone who were responsible for the conflict. Officially, the events of December 22 are referred to as “the Turkish mutiny”. It took 40 years for the shocking eyewitness testimonies of Greek Cypriots to come to light, testimonies that demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt how guilty our leaders were. According to these testimonies, ‘Akritas’ stooped so low as to set fire to the Greek school of Ayios Kasianos (the perpetrator has admitted to this) or plant a bomb at the statue of EOKA hero Marcos Drakos, on the orders of Yiorkadjis himself (to his credit, an officer by the name of T. Chrysafis gave this testimony) in order to frame the Turkish Cypriots and thus justify the devastating actions of that paramilitary group! And yet, 42 years down the line, the state television, daily Phileleftheros and the radio station of the Zeus group, have the mind-boggling audacity to still speak of a “Turkish mutiny”. None of our political leaders today has the guts or the gallantry to admit or speak the truth. It will take many more years before what we said in the beginning shall come to pass – that a real leader will come forward who will establish December 22 as a day of national reflection, a memorial day dedicated to the thousands of casualties it caused on both sides of the ‘Green Line’.

YANNIS
21 November 2007 at 08:53

I also want you to read and understand this:

TUESDAY, MARCH 27, 2007

Greek Helsinki Monitor on Persecution

This is the full report by the Greek Helsinki Monitor on Macedonians in Greece. READ IT AND WEEP Mr Pagemenos. If you don't trust me, download the report yourself.

Greece: Denial of minorities and persecution of minority rights activists

(download the Report)

April 3, 2006

Human rights defenders, who advocate for minority rights in Greece, a country that persistently refuses to recognize the existence of national minorities in their territory, face hostility and persecution, and are treated as threats to public order and national security.

In the course of one year (May 2004 – April 2005), the three key international bodies of experts on minority rights, the UN’s CESCR and HRC and the CoE’s ECRI, have published comprehensive criticism of Greece’s persistent refusal to respect its international commitments by even just acknowledging the existence of two national minorities, to whom belong all those Greek citizens who identify themselves as Macedonians or Turks. The relevant texts are appended to this statement. Characteristically, ECRI noted that:

“Even today, persons wishing to express their Macedonian, Turkish or other identity incur the hostility of the population. They are targets of prejudices and stereotypes, and sometimes face discrimination, especially in the labour market.”

The UN Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (CESCR), in turn, urged Greece:

“to reconsider its position with regard to the recognition of other ethnic, religious or linguistic minorities which may exist within its territory, in accordance with recognized international standards, and invite[d] it to ratify the Council of Europe Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities (1995).”

Finally, the UN Human Rights Committee urged Greece to

“review its practice in light of Article 27 of the Covenant… [and] noted with concern the apparent unwillingness of the government to allow any private groups or associations to use associational names that include the appellation Turk or Macedonian.”

The Greek state’s response was to confirm the ban of Macedonian and Turkish associations, and, at the same time, harass or attack human rights defenders who disseminate these texts and advocate minority rights.

The “Home of Macedonian Civilization” continues to be denied registration (most recent ruling in 2003 with appeal hearings only in September 2005 and decision pending through March 2006) by the courts sixteen years after it first applied and eight years after Greece was convicted by the ECHR for having refused the registration of that association.

In 2005, the Supreme Court refused the registration of the “Turkish Women Cultural Association of the Rodopi Prefecture.” It also dissolved the “Turkish Union of Xanthi,” operating legally since the 1930s.

The rulings are exemplary in showing why the Greek state considers the acknowledgment and the advocacy of the existence of such minorities a threat to public order and national security as well as promotion of foreign state interests. In the “Turkish Union of Xanthi” case it is stated (emphasis added):

“The association’s aim is illegal and contrary to Greek public order, since it is in contradiction with the international treaties signed in Lausanne, as it is attempted openly to present that in Greece (the area of Western Thrace) there is a national Turkish minority, while according to these treaties only the presence of a religious Muslim minority is recognized in the area. The reference to the Turkish identity does not reflect some remote Turkish origin but a current quality as members of a Turkish minority that would exist in Greece and would pursue the promotion within the Greek state of state interests of a foreign state and specifically Turkey. The association with its actions (…) gravely endangers Greek public order and national security (…) and raises a non-existent minority problem of ‘Turks’”

In the “Home of Macedonian Civilization” case it is stated (emphasis added):

‘The formulation of the associations’ articles is unclear and can cause confusion regarding its real goal… The use of the term ‘Macedonian culture’ intensifies this confusion by connecting it with a non-existent language, described as ‘makedonski’… The recognition of such an organization contains a direct danger to public order and provides an opportunity for exploitation by foreign agents, who have tried from time to time, unsuccessfully, to fabricate a historically non-existent ‘Macedonian nation’… For all the reasons mentioned above, we reject the application.’

It is no wonder then that human rights defenders advocating for the rights of the two minorities are considered themselves dangerous to public order and foreign agents, and every effort is deployed to keep them out of Greece, muzzle them and/or attack them.

On 4 August 2005, Gjorgi Plukovski, of the Canada-based “Macedonian Human Rights Movement International,” was denied entry into Greece by way of the Republic of Macedonia because he “is considered to be a threat to public order, internal security, public health or the international relations of one or more of the Member States of the European Union” (Document available at www.mhrmi.org/press/05/plukovski.pdf). A month earlier, on 6 July, Mr. Plukovski had entered Greece by way of Italy and remained until 24 July. Hence he is not on the alert list for the purpose of refusing entry in all Schengen countries: only Greece considers him a threat to public order and internal security. Mr. Plukovski is a Canadian citizen of Macedonian descent born in Greece in 1938 and becoming a child political refugee in 1948.

On 14 August 2005, Thessaloniki’s main daily “Makedonia” censored “out of principle” the regular Sunday column of writer and human rights activist Thanasis Triaridis that was to have an article with the title “A short note on a banned language,” summarizing the history and the reasons for the prohibition on speaking Macedonian in Greece, as well as Greece’s refusal to recognize national minorities, such as the Macedonian and Turkish ones.

In early October 2005, Erol Kasifoglu, President of the Solidarity Association of Western Thrace (BTTDD), was not allowed to enter Greece at the Greek-Turkish border. Kasifoglu, who was stripped of his Greek citizenship in 1987, on the basis of the now abolished Article 19 of the Greek Citizenship Code, had previously entered Greece many times with a Schengen visa. This time, Kasifoglu was issued a document that states that he is a threat to public order and national security. In the past, Selahattin Yύldύz, Tahsin Salihoglu, Halit Eren, Taner Mustafaoglu and Burhaneddin Hakgόder, then directors of BTTDD, had also been refused enthry in Greece with the same justification.

On 13 October 2005, Mr. Theo Alexandridis, GHM legal counsel, was held at a police station for four hours after having participated, along with other human rights activists, in various demonstrations against the expulsion of Roma children from their school, subsequent to pressure exerted by certain parents of non-Roma children in the “Psari” neighbourhood in Aspropyrgos, near Athens. Mr. Alexandridis had gone to the police station to lodge a complaint against the parents, responsible for violent acts during those demonstrations. Once he had filed the complaint, Mr. Alexandridis was not allowed to leave or meet with his colleagues at GHM. He was subsequently told that he was under arrest. Two hours later, he was told that he would not be judged in the framework of read-handed procedure and was released. The president of the Pupils’ Parents Association lodged a complaint against Mr. Alexandridis for “libel” and “defamation”. Police did not send the case file to the court until January 2006 and through March 2006 the case has not been assigned to an investigator.

On January 20, 2006, the Head of the Patras Appeals Prosecutor’s Office, Mr. Anastassios Kanellopoulos, said in a radio interview that “perpetrators, instigators and accomplices” of Roma “will be called to take the stand”, specifically including as potential targets representatives of the Greek Helsinki Monitor. This declaration was made in reference to the case of Roma families living in the Makrigianni area, city of Patras (Cultural Capital of Europe 2006), who were threatened of being forcibly expelled, despite a decision of the Magistrate’s Court of Patras (312/2005). GHM had offered legal aid to these families.

Yet, Mr. Anastassios Kanellopoulos ordered on that day the launching of an urgent preliminary investigation into allegations that the Roma of Makrigianni threw litter in a river, following many protests by local residents against this situation. While explaining the various aspects of the judicial investigation, Mr. Kanellopoulos underlined that its objective was to identify the perpetrators and instigators of these acts, as well as their accomplices. When queried by a journalist, the Prosecutor stated that all Roma are crime perpetrators and also admitted that he would examine the role of GHM representatives, known for their struggle for the rights of the Roma. “If it is proved that they too have helped the Roma, then be assured that they will be called to the stand”, the Prosecutor noted

YANNIS
21 November 2007 at 12:56

I am very sorry for my outburst this morning but I cannot think of any other way of dealing with Mr Pagomenos.

Everything you put in front of him is dismissed outright as lies. You have to provide your real name and probably an address before what you say is to be believed!!

Official documents submitted to the UN containing reports by bona-fides Council of Europe observers are dismissed as lies.

GOD(Christian-Muslim-Jew) PLEASE HELP US THROUGH.

Leo
21 November 2007 at 20:34

Mike Pagomenos, you are free to say and believe whatever you like and others have every right to disagree with you. The fact remains, several articles have been published by Loucas Charalambous in the Greek Cypriot press, Cyprus Mail which is read by many Greek Cypriots as well as foreigners. I had no difficulty finding the article “A Black Anniversary” by searching the Cyprus Mail archives by date (24/12/2006). It is not a fraud, it is not fake bur very REAL! It can be summarised as follows:

[No Greek Cypriot – least of all the President (Papadopoulos) wants to remember 22 December 1963 as the date marking the start of the intercommunal clashes.

‘Akritas’, a parliamentary organisation established in 1961 with the blessing of Archbishop Makarios and headed by the then interior minister Yiorkadjis and his lieutenant Papadopoulos caused death, destruction, displacement of populations and partition.

For many years thereafter, Greek Cypriot leadership fooled Greek Cypriots into thinking that it was the Turkish Cypriots alone who were responsible for the conflict. It took 40 years for the shocking eyewitness testimonies of Greek Cypriots to come to light, testimonies that demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt how guilty the Greek Cypriot leaders were.

None of the Greek Cypriot political leaders today has the guts or the gallantry to admit or speak the truth.]

These are serious allegations against your President and if they are lies why aren’t you or Fanoulla or Papadopoulos take legal action against Cyprus Mail? Unlike you who prefer to remain ignorant or do not have the guts or are too ashamed to admit or speak the truth, there are Greek Cypriots out there who are sick of the lies and have the courage to speak out. I know that you hate them more than you hate the Turks but your game is up and the world is slowly waking up and finding out the truth.

Sweet dreams Mike. Ignorance is bliss.

Mike Pagomenos
22 November 2007 at 03:37

Quoting Loucas Charalambous is like quoting Lord Haw Haw or David Irving. Lord Haw Haw was a propaganda mouthpiece for the Nazis. David Irving staunchly denied the Holocaust of the Jews and was a revisionist historian.

That's another aspect of the Turkish (and British) propaganda machine. The Cyprus Mail is not a quote worthy source. "Loucas Charalambous" in particular has a very poor record on factual accuracy.

Considering that the Republic of Turkey still denies the Armenian Genocide and the Holocaust of the Christians then it is not very surprising that Turks like to quote him.

Quoting him shows poor knowledge of what happened historically in Cyprus and an extreme-bias. Nor did the problems start in the 1960s.

Helsinki Monitor is a conglomeration of published articles, letters and press releases that are put together in one place. It brings together human rights news regardless of the bias of the actual source and regardless of whether the opinion is biased or the facts are accurate. There are many good articles gathered there but not all of them are unbiased

Documents submitted to the UN by the "TRNC" may be "official" in the eyes of the "TRNC" but the only thing that is official about them is that they are official Turkish propaganda.

What did you think about the open letters written by the Turk and the Armenian? Did you find them interesting or educational?

If you deny that the monastery at Halki was desecrated last week? Do you also deny that it was forceably closed against the will of its clergy in 1971 (as per Turkish newspaper article quoted above)?

So have you found a list of 100 desecrated mosques in the Republic of Cyprus? 100 was boldly stated above. I won't accept a couple. Nor the mosques that were personally bombed by Denktash himself. Name the 100 mosques that you claim were desecrated by Cypriots.

Actually, I don't agree that ignorance is bliss. I think that ignorance leads to much worse things than bliss and the Republic of Turkey is a prime example of what it can lead to.

YANNIS
22 November 2007 at 20:31

STOP PRESS…..

I decided to check upon the ‘Monastery on Halki Wrecked ‘story, so I rung the Greek Press Office in London (0207 7273071). They said they are not aware of any such thing and if it was news-worthy they would have known about it. However they suggested that I ring the Greek Archbishop Gregory’s (sorry I cannot pronounce his proper Greek name) office in London (0207 7234787) as well. I did ring and spoke to his second in command. A very polite man, he said the archbishop is not in but I can speak on his behalf and can tell you that we are not aware of any such news. The chap suggested that I should ring the newspaper in which the article was published. I therefore rung the Ekathemerini newspaper in Greece (00302104808000) and asked to speak to someone about the matter. I spoke to several people who did not know anything about the article. Finally after 15 minutes on the phone to Greece I managed to speak to someone who knew something about the matter. He said there are 3 Monasteries on Halki (Hybeli Ada); the bigger was used as a religious school. There are also two other very small ancient ones dating back to the 17th century. He said none of the 3 Monasteries have been damaged structurally; i.e. no damage to buildings. However he said the tiles from the roof of ONE of the two small monasteries have been removed but there was no damage to its structure. I said why was this done? He could not explain. He gave me the number of the Archbishop in Istanbul (00902125252117) to ring and get more information. I said don’t you know, and how can you describe this as ‘Monastery on Halki Wrecked’?? He gave a hysterical laugh and insisted I should speak to the Archbishop (Theolipitos; again sorry if I have not pronounced his name correctly) in Istanbul. I rung him but nobody answered. It sounds storm in a tea-cup to me. If the intention was to demolish the building then why remove the tiles from the roof??!!! It does not make sense captain; the story somehow does not hang together.

Now I also tried to find out a bit more about the Turkish Mosque that has been wiped out from the surface of the earth in Paphos, in the Southern Greek side of Cyprus by the EOKA butchers and murderers. The name of the Mosque is indeed Cami-l Cedid. It was built in 1825 by KOPRULU IBRAHIM AGA. It was first burnt down in 1963. And later bulldozed down and a car-park built where it once stood. WHAT BARBARISIM I ASK YOU? AND THEN SOME PEPLE HAVE THE ODASITY TO DENAY ITS EXISTANCE BECAUSE IT HASN’T GOT A URL ADDRESS ON GOOGLE!! How can anyone live together with these people???? Apparently these people want to come and live together with us in North Cyprus as neighbours!!!!! NO BLOODY CHANCE, NOT FOR ANOTHER 100 YEARS.

Many other mosques have been bombed and burnt down as mentioned in earlier postings. The Greek government, ashamed by what they have done, is now, for propaganda purposes, claiming that they are repairing them!!?? Pure admission of guilt if you ask me and demonstrates clearly the scale of the destruction carried out in the first place.

Now Mr Coleman, when are you going to write and article on the GRAND DESTRUCTION, not DESECRATION but DESTRUCTION, OF MUSLIM HERITAGE BY THE GREEK BARBARIANS IN CYPRUS??? OR DO WE NEED TO OFFER A FREE HOLIDAY FIRST???

teacher
22 November 2007 at 22:31

Read on Mr, Pagomenos .

I used to spend my summer holidays in my grandfathers village KORAKOU , on the slopes of Trodos mountains . It had a Mosque , a Turkish school and land , owned by Evkaf .

After the borders were opened in 2003 , I visited the village again to find that the mosque is completely demolished , the school is gone , houses built on Evkaf’s land as well as my grandfathers land. All traces of any Turkish Cypriots living or owning land there has been wiped off the surface of the earth . A few miles away is another village called Aybifan , this is the village where Denktash’s father comes from , and here the whole villages houses and buildings have been demolished and an army camp has been erected in its place . I have seen this with my own eyes , and I don’t need any URL addresses to convince me that the mosque that I used to pray in on my holidays existed there before . You can believe it or not , it doesn’t really matter to me as I know this is the truth , and I can prove it to anyone.

I would like to give a brief history and details of Akritas Plan , mostly prepeared by Papadopulos , which you may have not even read it yourself . I think many people reading it will find it revealing , and will see that Greek Cypriots are still trying to implement parts of it . For example , Greeks are still trying to take the right of unilateral intervention of Turkey , agreed when setting up the state of Cyprus in 1959 ,away from them .

On 19th February 1959, The Zurich and London Agreements were signed

and the road to the Republic of Cyprus was opened. On 16th August 1960 this

new Republic was established. The Greek Cypriot Leader Makarios was elected

President and The Turkish Cypriot Leader Dr. Fazil Küçük was elected Vice-

President.

According to the Constitution 7 Greeks and 3 Turks would be Ministers. As

one of the Greek Ministers Makarios chose Polykarpos Yeorgadjis and he

became Minister of Interior. He was the EOKA Area chief for Nicosia. Makarios

also directed Yeorgadjis to form a Secret para-military Organisation. The code

name "AKRITAS" was chosen and Yeorgadjis became "Chief AKRITAS". For this

Organisation he picked ex-EOKA men loyal to Makarios and ENOSIS. All party

leaders were authorized to form their own militia and they all did. Thus

Makarios through his Minister of Interior had became the Commander-in-Chief

of a secret army with the aim of destroying "the shackles" on Enosis which the

1960 Agreement had outlawed.

Chief AKRITAS (Yeorgadjis) set to work in earnest. The President of the

House of Representatives Glafkos Clerides, the Minister of Labour Tassos

Papadopoulos and Yeorgadjis were the masterminds of this Organisation. Most

top ranking Greek Cypriot officials of the Government were its members and

supporters. According to Mr. Glafkos Clerides, the Organisation started with

500 members all well armed ex-EOKA fighters. Towards the end of 1963 this

number rose to 1,800. The arms for this Organisation came from the arms

depot of the Cyprus Army and the Police and Gendarmerie Forces, the Greek

Cypriot members of which were now working with the Organisation under the

same leader, the Minister of Interior Mr. Yeorgadjis. With the addition of Greek

Contingent and its armoury and the arrival of 20,000 troops from Greece

Turkish Cypriots faced an formidable force. Arms came from Greece and Egypt

and some was bought from Czechoslovakia and other neighbouring countries.

Most of the arms were under the direct control of Makarios. The training of the

members was undertaken by the Greek Mainland Regiment in Cyprus. The

leadership was trained in Greece as from the signing of the London Agreement

in 1959. EOKA had cast off its uniform and was ostensibly converted into a

non-combatant organisation called EDMA whose first task was to give

scholarships in Greece, to young EDMA members in military training and

education. The AKRITAS organisation started planning a different future for

Cyprus. Apart from military plans a general plan for the extermination of

Turkish Cypriots was prepared. This top secret plan, with the name of

'AKRITAS PLAN', was first published in the Greek Cypriot newspaper PATRIS on

21st April 1967, three years after it had been fully and mercilessly

implemented and at a time when all Greek Cypriot leaders believed that what

they had achieved in Cyprus was irreversible. Indeed Makarios was jubilant in

announcing that Cyprus was now Greece... The House of Representatives now

composed of 100% Greek Cypriots, had already passed a resolution on

ENOSIS. Nothing else could be the "national aim".

Although both Yeorgadjis and Makarios are dead, this same plan, with

certain improvisations, is still being implemented by the Greek Cypriot

Leadership.

THE AKRITAS PLAN

TOP SECRET FROM HEADQUARTERS

RECENT DEVELOPMENTS

The recent public statements of the Archbishop have prescribed the

course which our national issue will follow in the immediate future. As we have

stressed in the past, national struggles are neither judged nor solved from day

to day, nor is it always possible to fix definite time limits for the achievement

of the various stages of their development. Our national cause must always be

judged in the light of the conditions and developments of the moment; the

measures which will be taken, the tactics and the time of implementing each

measure is determined by the conditions existing at the time, both

internationally, and internally. The entire effort is trying and must pass

through various stages, because the factors which influence the final result are

many and varied. It must be understood by everyone that each measure taken

is the result of continuous studies and, in the meantime, forms the basis for

future measures. It must be recognized that the measures which are

prescribed now constitute only the first step, one simple stage towards the

final and unalterable national objective, to the full and unfettered exercise of

the right of self-determination of the people.

Since the purpose remains unalterable, what remains to be examined is

the subject of tactics. This must necessarily be separated as internal and

external (international), since in each case both the handling and the

presentation of our cause will be different.

A. EXTERNAL TACTICS (INTERNATIONAL)

During the recent stages of our national struggle the Cyprus problem has

been presented to world public opinion and diplomatic circles as a demand for

the exercise of the right of self-determination of the people of Cyprus. In the

exercise of this right, the subject of the Turkish minority was introduced under

the well-known conditions and with the argument of violent intercommunal

clashes, it had been tried to make it accepted that co-existence of the two

communities under a united administration was impossible. Finally, for many

international circles the problem was solved by the London and Zurich

Agreements, a solution which was presented as the result of negotiations and

agreement between the contending parties.

a) Consequently, our first target has been to cultivate internationally the

impression that the Cyprus problem has not really been solved and the

solution requires revision.

b) First objective was our endeavour to be vindicated as the Greek

majority and to create the impression that:

(i) the solution given is neither satisfactory nor fair;

(ii) (ii) the agreement reached was not the result of a free and

voluntary acceptance of a compromise of the conflicting views;

(iii) the revision of the agreements constitutes a compelling

necessity for survival, and not an effort of the Greeks to repudiate their

signature;

(iv) the co-existence of the two communities is possible, and

(v) the strong element on which foreign states ought to rely is the

Greek majority and not the Turks.

c) All the above which required very difficult effort, have been achieved to

a satisfactory degree. Most of the diplomatic representatives are already

convinced that the solution given was neither fair nor satisfactory, that it was

signed under pressure and without real negotiations and that it was imposed

under various threats. The fact that the solution has not been ratified by the

people, is a significant argument in this connection, because our leadership,

acting wisely, avoided calling the people to give its official approval to the

agreement by a plebiscite or otherwise, which the people, in the 1959 spirit,

would have definitely approved. Generally, it has been established that the

administration of Cyprus up to now has been carried out by the Greeks and

that the Turks was confined to a negative role and acted as a brake.

d) Second objective. The first stage having been completed, we must

programme the second stage of our activities and objectives on the

international field. In general terms, these objectives can be outlined as

follows:

(i) The efforts of the Greeks are to remove unreasonable and unfair

provisions of the administration and not to oppress the Turks;

(ii) The removal of these factors of the administration must take

place today because tomorrow will be too late.

(iii) The removal of these provisions of the administration, although

it is reasonable and necessary, is not possible because of the

unreasonable attitude of the Turks and therefore, since it is not possible

by agreement with the Turks, unilateral action is justified;

(iv) The issue of revision is an internal affair of the Cypriots and

does not give the right of intervention, by force or otherwise, to anyone;

(v) The proposed amendments are reasonable, just, and safeguard

the reasonable rights of the minority.

e) It has been generally proven that today the international climate is

against every type of oppression and especially the oppression of minorities.

The Turks have already succeeded in persuading international opinion that

union of Cyprus with Greece amounts to an attempt to enslave them. Further,

it is judged that we have greater possibilities of succeeding in our efforts to

influence international public opinion in our favour if we present our demand,

as we did during the struggle, as a demand for exercising the right of self-

determination, rather than as a demand for Enosis. However, in order to

secure the right to exercise complete and free self-determination, first of all,

we must get rid of all those provisions of the Constitution and of the

Agreements (Treaty of Guarantee, Treaty of Alliance etc) which obstruct the

free and unfettered expression and implementation of the wishes of our people

and which may open the way to dangers of external intervention. It is exactly

for this reason that the first target of attack has been the Treaty of Guarantee,

which was the first that was stated to be no longer recognised by the Greek

Cypriots.

When this is achieved no power, legal or moral, can stop us from deciding

our future alone and freely and exercising the right of self-determination by a

plebiscite.

From the above, the conclusion can be drawn that for the success of our

plan a chain of actions and developments is needed, each of which is a

necessity and a must, otherwise, future actions will remain legally unjustified

and politically unattainable, while at the same time we will expose the people

and the country to serious consequences. The actions to be taken can be

classified under the following headings:

a) Amendment of the negative elements of the Agreements and parallel abandonment in practice of the Treaties of Guarantee and Alliance. This step is

necessary because the need for amendments of the negative aspects of the

treaties is generally accepted internationally and is considered justified (we can

even justify unilateral action), while at the same time external intervention to

prevent us amending them is held unjustified and inapplicable;

b) After the above actions, the Treaty of Guarantee (the right of

intervention) becomes legally and substantially inapplicable;

c) Once Cyprus is not bound by the restrictions (of the Treaties of

Guarantee and Alliance) regarding the exercise of the right of self-determination, the people will be free to give expression to and implement

their desire.

d) Legal confrontation by the forces of State (police and even friendly

military forces) of every internal or external intervention because then we shall

be completely independent.

Therefore the actions from (a) to (d) are absolutely necessary and must

be carried out in the above order and in time.

It is therefore obvious that if we hope to have any possibility of success

internationally in our above actions, we cannot and must not reveal or declare

the various stages of the struggle before the previous one is completed. For

instance, if it is accepted that the above four stages are the necessary course,

then it is unthinkable to speak of amendments (stage (a)) if stage (d) is

revealed. How can it be possible to aim at the amendment of the negative

aspects by arguing that this is necessary for the functioning of the State and

the Agreements.

The above relate to targets, aims and tactics in the international field. And

now on the internal front:

B. INTERNAL FRONT

The internal actions are judged by the interpretations that will be given to them internationally and by the effects that our actions will have on our

national cause.

1. The only danger which could be described as insurmountable is the

possibility of external intervention. Not so much because of material damage,

nor because of the danger itself (which, in the last analysis, it is possible for us

to deal with partly or totally by force), but mainly because of the possible

political consequences. If intervention is threatened or implemented before

stage (c), then such intervention would be legally debatable, if not justified.

This fact has a lot of weight both internationally and in the United Nations.

From the history of many recent instances we have learnt that in not a single

case of intervention, even when legally unjustified, has either the United

Nations or any other power succeeded in evicting the attacker without serious

concessions detrimental to the victim. Even in the case of the Israeli attack

against Suez, which was condemned by almost all nations and on which Soviet

intervention was threatened, Israel withdrew, but received (kept) the port of

Eilat on the Red Sea as a concession. Naturally, much more serious dangers

exist for Cyprus.

But if we consider and justify our actions under (a) above well, on the one

hand the intervention will not be justified and, on the other, we will have every

support from the beginning, since by the Treaty of Guarantee, intervention

cannot take place before consultations between the Guarantor Powers, that is

Britain, Greece and Turkey. It is at this stage of consultations (before

intervention) that we need international support. We shall have it if the

amendments proposed by us appear reasonable and justifiable.

Hence, the first objective is to avoid intervention by the choice of the

amendments we would propose in the first stage.

Tactics: Reasonable Constitutional amendments after efforts for common

understanding with the Turks are exhausted. Since common agreement is

impossible we shall try to justify unilateral action. At this stage the provisions

in (ii) and (iii) of page 21 are applicable in parallel.

2. It is obvious that for intervention to be justified, more serious reasons

and a more immediate danger must exist than mere constitutional

amendments.

Such reasons could be (a) an immediate declaration of Enosis before stages (a) - (c), (b) serious inter-communal violence which would be presented as massacre of the Turks.

Reason (a) has already been dealt with in the first part and, consequently,

only the danger of inter-communal violence remains to be considered. Since

we do not intend, without provocation, to massacre or attack Turks, the

possibility remains that the Turks, as soon as we proceed to the unilateral

amendment of any article of the constitution, will react instinctively, creating

incidents and clashes or stage, spurious killings, atrocities or bomb attacks on

Turks, in order to create the impression that the Greeks have indeed attacked

the Turks, in which case intervention would be imperative, for their protection.

Tactics: Our actions for constitutional amendments will be open and we

will always appear ready for peaceful talks. Our actions will not be of a

provocative or violent nature. Any incidents that may take place will be met, at

the beginning, in a legal fashion by the legal Security Forces, according to the

plan. All actions will be clothed in legal form.

3. Before the right of unilateral amendments of the constitution is

established and is accepted, decisions and actions which require positive

violent acts from us, such as the unification of municipalities, must be avoided.

Such a decision compels the Government to intervene by force to bring about

the unification and seizure of municipal properties, which will probably compel

the Turks to react forcefully. Therefore it is easier for us, using legal methods,

to amend, for instance, the provision of the 70 to 30 ratio, when it is the Turks

who will have to take positive violent action, while for us this procedure will

not amount to action, but a refusal to act. The same applies to the issue of the

separate majorities with regards to taxation legislation. These measures have

already been studied and a series of similar measures have been decided for

implementation. Once our right of unilateral amendments to the constitution is

established de facto by some such actions, then we shall be able to advance

using our judgment and our strength more forcefully.

4. It is, however, naive to believe that it is possible to proceed to

substantive acts of amendment of the constitution, as a first step of our

general plan, as has been described above, without the Turks attempting to

create or to stage violent clashes. Exactly for this reason, the existence and

strengthening of our Organisation is imperative because:

a) In the event of spontaneous Turkish reactions, if our counter-attacks are not immediate, we run the risk of having panic created among Greeks, particularly in the towns, and thus we run the danger of losing

substantial vital areas irreparably , while on the other hand an immediate

and timely show of our strength may bring the Turks to their senses and

confine their actions to insignificant, isolated acts, and

b) In the event of a planned or spurious attack of the Turks, staged

or not, it is imperative to overcome it by force in the shortest possible

time, because if we succeed in gaining command of the situation in one or

two days, no outside intervention would be possible, probable or

justifiable.

c) In all the above cases, the forceful and decisive confrontation of

any Turkish effort will greatly facilitate our subsequent actions for further

Constitutional amendments. It would then be possible for unilateral

amendments to be made, without any Turkish reaction, because they will

know that their reaction will be impossible or seriously harmful for their

community, and

d) In the event of the clashes becoming widespread and general we

must be ready to proceed immediately with the actions described in (a) to

(d), including the immediate declaration of Enosis, because then there

would be no reason to wait nor room for diplomatic action.

5. At all these stages we should not overlook the factor of propaganda,

and to counter the propaganda of those who do not know or cannot be

expected to know our plans, as well as of the reactionary elements. It has

been shown that our struggle must pass through at least four stages and that

we must not reveal our plans and intentions publicly and prematurely.

Complete discretion and secrecy is more than a national duty. IT IS A VITAL

NECESSITY FOR SURVIVAL AND SUCCESS.

This will not deter the reactionaries and the irresponsible demagogues

from indulging in an orgy of exploitation of patriotism and provocations. The

plan provides them with fertile ground, because it gives them the opportunity

to allege that the efforts of the leadership are confined to the objective of

constitutional amendments and not to pure national objectives. Our task

becomes more difficult because by necessity, and depending on the prevailing

circumstances, even the constitutional amendments must be made in stages.

However, all this must not draw us into irresponsible demagogy, street politics

or bidding higher in the stakes of nationalism. Our acts will be our most

truthful defenders. In any event, because the above task must make

substantial progress and yield results long before the next elections, in the

relatively short time in between we must show self-restraint and remain cool,

for obvious reasons. At the same time, however, we must not only maintain

the present unity and discipline of the patriotic forces, but increase it. We can

only achieve this by the necessary briefing of our members and through them

of our people.

Before everything else we have to expose the true identities of the

reactionaries. They are petty and irresponsible demagogues and opportunists,

as their recent past has shown. They are negative and aimless reactionaries

who fanatically oppose our leadership, but at the same time without offering a

substantive and practical solution of their own. In order to promote all our

actions we need a steady and strong government until the last moment. These

are known as verbalists and sloganists, with pretty words and slogans, but

they are unable and unwilling to proceed to concrete acts or to suffer

sacrifices. For example, even at the present stage they offer nothing more

concrete than recourse to the United Nations, that is, words again without cost

to themselves. They must, therefore, be alienated and isolated.

In parallel and at the same time, we shall brief our members about the

above plan and intentions, but ONLY VERBALLY. Our Sub-headquarters must,

in gatherings of our members, analyse and explain fully and continuously the

above, until each one of our members understands fully and is in a position to

brief others. NO WRITTEN REPORT IS PERMITTED. THE LOSS OR LEAKAGE OF

ANY DOCUMENT ON THE ABOVE AMOUNTS TO HIGH TREASON. No act can

damage our struggle as vitally and decisively as the revealing of the present

document or its publication by our opponents.

With the exception of word-of-mouth briefing and guidance, all our other

actions, specially publications in the press, resolutions etc, must be very

restrained and no mention of the above should be made. Similarly, in public

speeches and gatherings, only responsible persons may make, under the

personal responsibility of the Chief of Sub-headquarters, references in general

terms to the above plan. And this only after the explicit approval of the Chief

of Sub-headquarters who will also control the text. Even in this case, ON NO

ACCOUNT ARE REFERENCES TO THESE TEXTS IN THE PRESS OR ANY OTHER

PUBLICATION ARE PERMITTED.

Tactics: All the briefing of our people and of the public BY WORD OF

MOUTH. We should make every effort to appear as moderates in public.

Projection of or reference to our plans in the press or in writing is strictly

prohibited. Officials and other responsible persons will continue to brief the

people and to raise their morale and fighting spirit, but such briefing excludes

making our plans public knowledge by the press or otherwise.

NOTE: This document will be destroyed by fire on the personal responsibility

of the Chief of Regional HQ, in the presence of all the General Staff within 10

days from its receipt. Copies in full or in part are prohibited. Members of the

staff of the Regional HQ may have the plan on the personal responsibility of

the Chief of Regional HQ, but may not take it out of the Regional HQ.

The Chief

AKRITAS

YANNIS
23 November 2007 at 00:00

Hey ‘teacher’ you did not give any URL address about Akritas plan. You know that is not acceptable. So here is some:

http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/akritas_plan.htm

http://www.cypnet.co.uk/ncyprus/history/republic/akritas.htm...

http://www.geocities.com/t_volunteer/cyprus/akritas.htm

http://www.visionmatters.co.uk/BB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4646&...

Papapetru's Confession: We Were Trained To Kill Turkish Cypriots

Nicosia - Deputy Chairman of United Democrat (EDI) party and the former spokesman of Greek Cypriot Administration, Michailis Papapetru declared that the he was trained by some governmental and non-governmental organizations that gave military training before 1963 with the purpose of putting the Akritas Plan into force and massacring the Turkish Cypriots.

As it is written in the liberal Politis newspaper of South Cyprus "Governmental and non-governmental organizations - including me myself- have given military training to some trainees in order to put the Akritas plan into force and murder the Turkish Cypriots" said Papapetru in his confession and underlined that the burden and the responsibility of the inspections are on the Greek Cypriot Administration, speaking at a TV program together with the deputy of the Greens George Perdikis.

According to the newspaper, Perdikis said that the Greek Cypriot Government should have the responsibility of scrutinizing under what conditions the left-winged Greek Cypriots murdered and also the violence applied to Turkish Cypriots afterwards. The daily read:

"At this point Mihailis Papapetru said publicly that before 1963 governmental and non-governmental elements including Papapetru himself with the intention of putting the Akritas Plan into force and killing Turkish Cypriots, gave military training to his Community. Without appropriating Perdikis' language who offered the starring cast of the incident should hear a case,

Akritas plan was originaly published by the Greek Cypriot newspaper Patris with some parts missing. The missing parts were then supplied by Clerides.

If you want the 'originals' of this document then start with Patris and Clerides' books.

FOREIGN PRESS ON CYPRUS EXTRACTS

IN THE FORBIDDEN CITY

"We went to-night into the sealed-off Turkish quarter of Nicosia in which 200 to 300 people had been slaughtered in the last five days. We were the first Western reporters there and we have seen sights too frightful to be described in print as horrors so extreme that the people seemed stunned beyond tears and reduced to an hysterical and mirthless giggle that is more terrible than tears. This much we can tell:

In the Kumsal quarter, at No 2 Irfan Bey Sokag, we made our way into a house whose floors were covered with broken glass. A child's bicycle lay in a corner. In the bathroom, looking like a group of waxworks, ware three dead children piled on top of their murdered mother. In a room next to it, we glimpsed the body of a woman shot in the head.

This, we were told, was the home of a Turkish Army Major whose family had been killed by the mob in the first violence. Today was five days later and still they lay there . . .

(Extract from a report by Rene MacColl and Daniel McGeachie, Daily Express, 28 December, 1963).

Mike Pagomenos
23 November 2007 at 03:36

The Monastery and Theological School at Halki was mentioned on Greek national television news channels last week. So your long-winded fantasy of phonecalls was a waste of time. Everybody has heard about the event that watches live Greek news and anybody who is anybody in the Orthodox Church also knows about it. But nice try. The Halki desecration happened on Tuesday last week. Kathimerini is not used British toilet paper like the Cyprus Mail and it is also backed up by an Italian news source that has a lot more detail.

So are you claiming that the mosque listed above was not bombed by Denktash? What happened to the 100 mosques that you claimed were destroyed? The problem is that you stretch the truth so far you really cannot tell where fiction ends and reality starts.

You are wasting your time posting selective articles on body count particularly when "two or three hundred" is banded about as though a 50% margin of error is acceptable. If they couldn't count up to 200 then where were their eyes? Obviously not where the bodies were. Such inaccurate news reporting is not worthy source material.

Jack the Ripper (the Republic of Turkey) is complaining that the victim (the Republic of Cyprus) has put blood on its shirt.

Enormous Republic of Turkey is complaining that tiny Republic of Cyprus has bloodied its nose whilst Turkey was implementing planned, systematic segregation and ethnic cleansing against the Christian population.

All of the above when Turkey continues to deny the Holocaust of the Christians and the Genocide of the Armenians.

Turkey has got the track record for ethnic cleansing, Holocaust and Genocide a mile long. Let's not forget Constantinople in 1955 either. Or what Turkey did to the Armenians before 1915. What has the Republic of Turkey been doing to the Kurds for years and will be doing to the Kurds for many more after you used them to do much of the Genocidal dirty work for you.

No wonder you have to publish so much propaganda and rubbish in your efforts to deny it all.

The UN is so embarrassed about the whole mess, that is Cyprus, that they tried to implement permanent apartheid with the Annan Plan. They made sure that nobody could read the Annan Plan till the day of the vote so that they could sneak in a vast array of ridiculous concessions to benefit the Republic of Turkey, its colonists, the United Kingdom and the United States. The Annan Plan does not benefit Cypriots in any way.

Stop trying to implement the Annan Plan on Cyprus. Flush it down a toilet where it belongs and send the idiots that "negotiated" and wrote it to South Africa. Nelson Mandela will find something constructive for them to do like planting trees for all that wasted paper.

Kofi Annan should be ashamed for allowing his name to be used for it.

Mike Pagomenos
23 November 2007 at 04:19

"One point we should never forget is that the intervention of Turkey in Cyprus was not effected solely for the 'blue eyes' of the Turkish Cypriot community... it also intervened moved by consideration of its own strategic interest."

Mehmet Ali Birand

Millyet (Turkish newspaper)

13 March 1984

Well ofcourse not Mehmet. It never was about the Cypriots. Turkish troops were never fussy about who they killed or raped. Especially if they had blue eyes.

Mike Pagomenos
23 November 2007 at 04:28

"In Turkey they torture anything: pregnant women, children, old people– anything."

Former Turkish Army Torturer

Interviewed for Channel 4 documentary 'Roots of Evil'

October 1997

Mike Pagomenos
23 November 2007 at 04:32

"The explosion sparked off a night of riots in Nicosia. Turkish Cypriots burned and looted Greek shops and homes. Soon came counter-attacks and the fighting spread around the island. A friend of mine, whose name must still be kept secret, was to confess to me that he had put this little bomb in the doorway in order to create an atmosphere of tension so that people would know that the Turkish Cypriots mattered."

Former Turkish Diplomat - Emin Dirvana

'Cyprus, Britain’s Grim Legacy'

'End of Empire' (ITV documentary)

22 July 1984

Mike Pagomenos
23 November 2007 at 04:38

"... in case of the smallest resistance, every soldier must perform his duty to murder these men in large numbers. The fatherland orders so. You must not neglect to perform your duty: every soldier is obliged to kill four to five Greeks for our country's grandeur. Every soldier is obliged to carry out the contents of this order."

Order made by Nourredin

Chief of the Turkish army in Smyrna (Izmir) when ordering the slaughter of the Christian population at the start of the massacres in 1922

Mike Pagomenos
23 November 2007 at 04:43

"… the demographic Turkification of the north will soon be complete. Towns and villages such as Kyrenia and Lapithos which stood empty and ghostly until April are now filled with settlers, some Turkish Cypriot, some mainland Turks. The return of the original inhabitants is ruled out, and the Turkish authorities now say quite openly that the remaining 5,800 Greek Cypriots in the north (of a total of 14,500 two years ago) will be reduced by half this Christmas."

The Economist

4 September 1976

By the way, The Economist has a heavily pro-Turkish bias. It's unusual to get something in The Economist that criticises Turkey.

Mike Pagomenos
23 November 2007 at 04:47

"We visited 26 former Greek villages [occupied northern part of Cyprus]. We found not a single undesecrated cemetery ... At Syngrasis, the church interior was smashed beyond recognition, littered with the remains of icons, pews and beer bottles. The broken crucifix was drenched in urine."

The Guardian (6 May 1976)

Mike Pagomenos
23 November 2007 at 04:50

"I think it is only natural that the Cypriot people, who are of Greek descent, should regard their incorporation with what may be called their mother-country as an ideal to be earnestly, devoutly, and fervently cherished. Such a feeling is an example of the patriotic devotion which so nobly characterises the Greek nation."

Winston Churchill (17 October 1907)

Mike Pagomenos
23 November 2007 at 04:53

"I could not help reflecting wryly that had we been honest enough to admit the Greek nature of Cyprus in the beginning, it might never have been necessary to abandon the island or fight for it. Now, it was too late!"

Lawrence Durrell

Director of Public Relations for the British Government

'Bitter Lemons of Cyprus' (1957)

Sol
23 November 2007 at 08:50

"Sir Alec Douglas Home said in his

memoirs: ‘If the Greek Cypriot leadership could not

treat the Turkish Cypriots as human beings they were

inviting the invasion and partition of the island.’"

Sol
23 November 2007 at 08:51

The leader of the 1974 coup, Nicos Sampson, told Eleftherotipia newspaper that ‘had Turkey not intervened I would not only have proclaimed ENOSIS — I would have annihilated the Turkish Cypriots’.

Sol
23 November 2007 at 08:57

Daily Telegraph

"we called for intervention in Cyprus when the anti-Turkish pogroms began in the 1960s

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2...

Sol
23 November 2007 at 08:58

The point is Mike, both sides have been bloody awful, You, and Coleman though blame everything on the Turkish side. How is that going to bring about reconciliation.

Mike Pagomenos
23 November 2007 at 11:16

"Scandalous map: Expansionist ambitions of the Turkish ultranationalism

The ultranationalist frenzy which threatens at an accelerated rhythm the Kurdish people as well as the ethnic and religious minorities of Turkey is now accompanied by a new expansionist campaign aiming at Turkish occupation of the republics of Cyprus and Armenia as well as important territories of the neighboring countries like Greece, Syria and Iraq.

On November 21, 2007, Günes, one of the Turkish daily newspapers with high circulation, has published on its first page a new map of Turkey showing the annexation of these neighboring countries and territories.

Under the title, "You say map? Here is the map!", the newspaper announces that currently circulates on Internet the map of "Enlarged Turkey" in response to the maps showing Turkey divided.

In this new map of Turkey, the oil-producing Mosul and Kirkuk areas of Iraq as well as all Greek islands including Crete form parts of future the enlarged Turkey."

Source: The above is in about every news source outside Turkey. You have to keep your ultranationalist tendencies under control.

Mike Pagomenos
23 November 2007 at 11:20

You'll never take Zoniana. Not in a million years.

(You have to keep up with the Greek news and have a sense of humour to understand this one.)

Mike Pagomenos
23 November 2007 at 14:34

I quote a British Lion of a Prime Minister (Sir Winston Churchill) and you quote a treacherous mouse of a Prime Minister Sir Alec Douglas Home who was Prime Minister of the United Kingdom for one year from October 1963 to October 1964 (didn't last very long did he?).

The Right Horrible Sir Alex Douglas Home betrayed Britain's ally of World War II, where Britain fought together with Greeks against the Germans, to support the Republic of Turkey.

Although Turkey wasn't involved in the war because Turkey pretended to be a neutral country like Switzerland. Turkey manufactured tanks and weapons for Hitler.

What does that make Sir Alex Douglas Home? He helped to degrade the superlative relationship that Britain had with Greece for what? To get in to bed with the supporter of an Axis power.

Britain has a short memory. During World War I, the Republic of Turkey fought with the Germans. Greece was pushed into the war by its German monarchy for the best interests of the Republic of Turkey.

Sir Alec Douglas Home was one of several British Prime Ministers desperately clinging to what was left of the British Empire. All the bitter aftertaste from the loss of Eqypt focussed Britain's vengeance on a small island trying to gain independence.

He betrayed a good friend and jumped in to bed with the enemy.

rose
23 November 2007 at 15:21

Anyone who rejects theUN Annan peace plan backed by the EU, UN, USA, Greece and Turkey because it's racist cannot be taken seriously. It's wrong for someone in Colemans position to accept any free hospitality, thus undermining his position in the conservative party. Coleman has a responsibility to improve relations between Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots NOT destroy them.

Sol
23 November 2007 at 15:56

Mike, Turkey also used its neutral position in WW2 to help thousands of Jews escape from Nazi controlled Europe.

Churchill also total condemned the policys of Lloyd George after the first world war, where LG encourged the Greeks to invade Turkey, a policy which as predicted ended in diaster.

More recently Turkey has been a solid NATO ally, contributing troops from Korea to Afganistan, was a Bulwark against communism when Cyprus was buying weapons from the USSR.

Sol
23 November 2007 at 15:58

That is of course not to say that Greeces contribution to the allied efforts was not signifigant becuase it was. the Greeks did a terric job under occupation, and suffered greatly for it.

So bad did they suffer that Turkey sent thousands of tons of food to stop starvation. In desperate times like this and the Ismit earthquake in Turkey, both sides can pull together and suly we can both agree that that is a wonderful thing.

YANNIS
23 November 2007 at 19:46

Lets come back to the crux of the matter again Mike or should I call you Ms Fanoulla ?!! I wondered where she disappeared to.

•The Greek Cypriot EOKA barbarians have first burnt down and then bulldozed over and wiped out the entire Cami-l Cedid Mosque in Paphos. The Main Mosque built in 1825 by KOPRULU IBRAHIM AGA. First I want you to acknowledge this. I will not yet put you out of your misery by giving you the list of Muslim historic heritages that YOU wrecked in Cyprus by either bombing them or burning them down. The list is very long I can assure you. I want you to repent first, say sorry, and give us the names of the barbarians that have committed this evil act. Then we will give you the name of another Muslim shrine that your lot have wrecked and desecrated. We will give them one at a time.

•Let me reiterate. We love to live under the protection and safety of the Turkish Peace Keeping Force that has maintained peace on the island for now 33 years. They are our blood-brothers. They gave their lives to save us from a total slaughter by the Greek and Greek Cypriot butchers.

•If you dare to harm Turkey in anyway, you will find the Turkish Cypriots right there fighting shoulder to shoulder with their brothers and sisters against the enemy.

•I initially thought Annan plan was a good staring point for the two communities to get together and resolve their differences in Cyprus. HOWEVER AFTER MEETING YOU I HAVE COMPLETELY CHANGED MY MIND. I think building a 10ft high fortified wall with barbed wires and guard dogs, all along the UN Green Line is more appropriate. AND I MEAN IT.

•I detect that the Megali İdea (the goal of re-establishing a Greek state extending west from Sicily, to Turkey and Black Sea to the east, and from Thrace, Macedonia and Epirus, north, to Crete and Cyprus to the south) is still very much alive and kicking in the Greek minds. And you are trying to get the Kurds and Armenians onboard to help you with this dream. All I can say is, we (Turks and Turkish Cyriots) will turn this into a nightmare for you, as we did with your ENOSIS dreams in Cyprus; don’t have any doubts about that Ms Fanoulla or should I say Mike!!!??

Mike Pagomenos
23 November 2007 at 23:14

Churchill and Venizelos were right. Anyone who was for invading the Ottoman Empire in 1922 was wrong. On that we agree. But the Republic of Turkey benefitted from that huge mistake that was initiated by the German monarch of Greece. Germany and Turkey being allies.

The reference to EOKA was historically incorrect (you are also getting the EOKAs mixed up in chronology). The use of the word "barbarians" was incorrect and The Sun got the use of that word right.

Turkey benefitted in World War I and World War II. Greece suffered badly in both and gained nothing out of either despite promises made by the British by Churchill in WWI that Cyprus would be returned to Greece. Even Churchill wasn't perfect. And despite Greece being the first Ally to defeat an Axis Power (Mussolini's Italy) in WWII. Can you imagine that? Greece beat the Italians. Greece was the only country to resist the Germans from the first day of occupation through to the last day of occupation. Greece has had to put up with several invasions by Turkey over the last half a millenium. Why don't you all leave Greece alone. You bunch of bullies.

List the 100 mosques that you say were destroyed (but be honest and list which ones were destroyed by Denktash himself). You aren't going to find them even if you use a magnifying glass. Have you no self-respect?

The Annan Plan is backed by the so-called "guarantor" powers and the United Nations. It's not backed by the EU. In fact the European Court of Human Rights has already judged that the land be given back to the displaced persons of the 1974 invasion. The Annan Plan permanently segregates Cyprus by religion. It is an apartheid plan. The only thing the "guarantor" powers guarantee is that they get more of Cyprus and the Cypriots get less.

There will be no security for the Cypriots and in time Turkey will swallow the whole of Cyprus. Ofcourse the same propaganda that they use today will be used for the whole of Cyprus.

They will bomb a few of their own mosques and claim that 100 mosques have been destroyed by the racists that they have murdered and raped whilst they continue to desecrate churches, cemeteries, monasteries and persecute the Christian minorities. As they have been doing for hundreds of years but still continue to do today.

The only Megali Idea is Turkey's big idea of painting the map of all of the surrounding countries red with blood. As demonstrated on the front page of a newspaper with circulation this month (note reference in above posting).

Greece was the only country that resisted German occupation throughout World War II and when the Germans had enough of resistance they left. But no thanks to Turkey who was manufacturing weapons and tanks for the Germans.

By the way. The Elgin Marbles, mentioned way up above, were sold by Ottomans to the British during the Ottoman occupation of Greece (for those that don't know what an Ottoman is, it is the old word for a Turk). But they did it in a very clever way. They made sure that there was no trail of documentation to prove it. Now the British who hold the marbles have no original proof of sale. But even if they had it was the Ottomans who allowed the British to damage the Parthenon. There's an official website about the UK campaign. Detailed analysis. Very interesting. Turkey got a good deal out of that too. It even lists the monies involved.

The Ottoman Empire had to have a new "corporate identity" to cover up its recent violent past. So a guy called Ataturk gave the Ottoman Empire by calling it the Republic of Turkey. He changed the written language by making everybody write in latin characters (to make it look more European), called it a "modern secular democracy" and Jack the Ripper (the Republic of Turkey) had a new image. The blood red flag was still dripping. "Modern" was a "modern" word to use in the 1920s and to change the image of the "sick old man", "secular" was to cover up Turkey's religious intolerance, and "democracy" was used to cover up the fact that the government was controlled by the military. Ataturk should have been in marketing as he would have been one of the best corporate image changers ever.

modern = sick and old;

secular = religiously intolerant;

democracy = General Musharraf and Saddam Hussein would approve of this kind of democracy, if only they'd thought of it. But let's face it. Without Saddam Hussein Iraq is now in a worse mess than it was just as Pakistan will be in a worse mess without Musharraf. Will Turkey be in a worse mess without being controlled by the military? Probably.

Anyway, the subject is supposed to be about the ongoing desecration of churches, monasteries, cemeteries and theological schools. Just like the monastery and theological school that was desecrated last week in Halki which the Turks have already started to deny. In fact, they have been denying it from day one.

Turkey's behaviour is just all too predictable.

One of the highlights of my year is stuffing Turkey for Christmas. There are few things that give me more pleasure. It's the only time you can make beneficial contact with Turkey, unfortunately, in all other situations Turkey is trying to stuff you.

Happy Holidays everybody

(and that includes all the religiously intolerant too)

Mike Pagomenos
24 November 2007 at 00:13

Ofcourse in American you can opt to double the pleasure at Thanksgiving.

YANNIS
24 November 2007 at 00:25

SOUNDS VERY SUSPICIOUS TO ME, WHAT DID TASSOS AND FOTINI GOT UPTO ??? DISGRACEFULL!!! SCREWING YOUR BEST MATE’S WOMAN MONTHES AFTER HIS DEATH!!??

In 1970 Chief EOKA leader Georkadjis' men shot at Makarios' helicopter just after it took off from the Archbishopric in Nicosia to convey the Archbishop to a memorial service for EOKA hero Grigoris Afxentiou in the mountains of Macheras. The machine was damaged and the pilot wounded, but a successful forced landing was made nearby and Makarios escaped, taking the pilot to Nicosia General Hospital with the aid of passers-by.

A few days later, Georkadjis drove to a secret night rendezvous in an open area outside the village of Mia Milia. He asked a close associate to accompany him, but dropped him off some distance from the meeting point and drove on alone. As Georkadjis' car approached another car parked at the meeting point, the occupants of the other car opened fire with automatic weapons. One of them then walked up to Georkadjis' car and delivered a coup de grace. They then drove off leaving Georkadjis dead at the scene.

Georkadjis' widow Fotini married Tassos Papadopoulos, then Minister of Labour, within months of her husband's death. Papadopoulos and Georkadjis had been close friends, and Papadopoulos had been best man at Georkadjis' wedding. Since Tassos Papadopoulos was elected President in 2003, Fotini Papadopoulou is First Lady of the Republic of Cyprus.

ORGANIZED ATTACK ON TURKS :

"Day by day and as murder follows murder detached observers here find it harder and harder to credit the Government of Cyprus with any real determination to stamp out violence. If the President really wants peace on earth and to restore the rule of law he could start by investigating publicly the circumstances surrounding last Thursday's attack on the Turkish inhabitants of Limassol. The known facts are that on the Wednesday the British peace keeping forces were assured by the Greek authorities that no attack would be made on the Turkish community. Accordingly the British Army did not patrol the town. At 5.30 the following morning Greek Cypriot security forces launched what our special correspondent describes as "a heavy well organized attack against the Turkish quarter of Limassol." It was carried out by hundreds of steel helmeted men armed with automatic weapons and supported by one tank and two armoured bulldozers. If the Greek Cypriot authorities connived at this formidable attack their behaviour is inexcusable. If they were ignorant of its coming they must forfeit their claim to govern and control their own people, let alone the whole Cypriot community."

(Extract from the Guardian London, 20 February 1964.)

CYPRUS RISKS ALL :

"If the Turkish Army has not already landed reinforcements to its Treaty Force in Cyprus, that is simple proof of the patience of Turkey. Its right to do so cannot be denied. If international treaties mean anything, Turkey can protect the Turkish Cypriot minority from further massacre. It is racial discrimination in its most bestial form. Although there have been efforts to cloud the issue by suggesting that both Cypriot communities are to blame, by far the heaviest guilt is that of the Greek Cypriot force known as Eoka or Edma."

(Extract from Daily Telegraph and Morning Post (London), 15 February 1964.)

Liz
24 November 2007 at 10:01

I do not see the point of anyone wasting their time responding to Mike Pagomenos who is so slippery. He asked for the name of the mosque that was destroyed and bulldozed by Greek Cypriots in Paphos and when he was given the name, he simply dismissed it. He argued that the article “A Black Anniversary” published in Cyprus Mail is a fraud and demanded the URL and the date and when these were produced, he simply dismissed them. There is absolutely no point in continuing to engage with someone when he has already made up his mind that he will never change his beliefs no matter how much evidence is produced.

The reason people have posted comments on this website is because they are disgusted by the biased comments of an elected representative who has acted so irresponsibly creating friction between the Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot communities. He of all people should know about the importance of community cohesion. So far he has declined to defend his actions but Greek Cypriots like Pagomenos are trying very hard to deflect attention away from him.

Brian Coleman failed to mention the total destruction by Greek Cypriots of 103 Turkish Cypriot villages along with their places of worship. He was obviously not told about these by his Greek Cypriot hosts. He simply repeated the words of the Greek Cypriot administration about the churches in TRNC even though he did not visit northern Cyprus to check the accuracy of his accusations. I do not quite understand why NewStatesman allows such an ill-informed, ignorant individual who cannot defend his actions to write on their website.

teacher
24 November 2007 at 12:23

Pagomenos , and other Greek Cypriots at last have stopped the ridiculous , absurd and mythical claim that Turkish Cypriots have instigated the Cyprus conflict , and that no Turkish Cypriots were killed between 1963 -1974. They have no leg to stand on , with the overwhelming evidence presented in these postings. They still have far to go to admit the attempted genocide , massacre of innocent civilians , and until then I do not believe there can be a reconciliation .

Now they are denying the desecration and destruction of Turkish villages and worship places . Pegamenos is kicking a fuss for a few missing tiles on a church on one hand but tries to dismiss the complete destruction of a mosque in Paphos . At first he wanted the name , but when given the name with the year it was built and by whom it was built he seems to have a blocked ear problem associated with most of the Greek Cypriots when evidence is presented to them about their atrocities . Again at my posting I gave the name of the village KORAKOU where I personally prayed in the mosque , which has been completely destroyed , as well as a whole village of AYBIFAN destroyed with no houses standing. He again shut his or her ears and have no comment to make , instead wants a list of 101 places . I must point out that even the destruction of one wholly place is shameful , disgraceful and unacceptable , they have been given two , but instead our Greek compatriots are after the list of 101.

Well here is a few more to add to your list ;

1)Arnavut cammi in Limassol - destroyed

2)Bayraktar camii in Nicosia – destroyed , car park in its place

3)Evdim Camii ( Evdim village in Limassol District) - Mosque destroyed

4) Mulla Hasan Turbesi in Limassol , a petrol station stands in its place

5) Korakou camii near Everihou completely destroyed

Etc. etc .

These are just a few and do not include the cemeteries and other wholly places.

Are these not enough for you Pagamenos?

Are you still demanding to see 101 places destroyed before you can apologise for the complete destruction of holy places .

Now our Greek compatriots have jumped to another issue , in trying to avoid coming face to face with facts .

Well consider this Mike .

Crete used to be an island belonging to Ottoman Empire for centuries where 250,000 Turkish origin people used to live . With the MEGALO IDEA ( ENOSIS –UNION WITH GREECE , same idea that started the Cyprus conflict ) all of these Turkish people were forced out of their land and driven out of Crete , even with the massacre of 10000 Turks in one day at the turn of the century. Tell me how many Mosques and Turkish cemeteries are standing in Crete now ?

Research on this for now.

I will write about the inhuman and anti human rights acts of Greece against the Turkish minority in another posting as I have to go now .

YANNIS
25 November 2007 at 13:37

Disgraceful Mr Pagomenos; I am sure no one is interested in your bestial practices with a turkey. Or is this Ms Fanoulla again in disguise boasting about her culinary skills with a big bird?? Any road, the stuffing that I enjoyed most this year was the stuffing of the Greek National Team 1-4 by the Turkish Team in Athens just a few months ago during the European Football Championship qualifiers. No doubt I will be enjoying this stuffing over and over again on my TV when I am enjoying my Christmas turkey.

Anar
27 November 2007 at 16:48

Quote from U.S. department of State's Country Report (Armenia):

"Armenia continues to occupy the Azerbaijani territory of Nagorno-Karabakh and seven surrounding Azerbaijani territories."

Laughable article. Ignorance at its best! Democratic Armenia??? Are you on drugs? Have you ever been to Armenia? Have you heard about massacres in Armenian parliament? Have you ever heard about Armenia's numerous political killings? No? Then please, read at least this:

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2006/78799.htm

Then he writes: "Azerbaijani aggressive policy towards Armenia". This is completely hysterical. Armenia is currently occupying 20% of Azerbaijani territory, carried out ethnic cleansing, has created 1 million Azeri refugees and Azerbaijan is the aggrossor? Coleman, please, go read UN Resolutions, European Parliament and U.S. State Department statements, and independent journalists' coverage regarding Armenian aggression before speaking out.

And here is a little about genocide committed by Armenians against Azeri civilians in the town of Khojaly:

http://www.geocities.com/baguirov/index.htm

pej
07 December 2007 at 10:23

I would have loved to have had the time to have prepared an elaborate eloquent response in line with the many before me who have attempted to challenge the bias of MrColeman, but i think it can be said quite simple: he needs votes! He is MP for Barnet and is just adopting the usual British method of divide and rule. If more Turkish Cypriots lived in his constitency then I am sure the story would be different. Stop pretending you are passionate about this issue Mr Coleman, you like many before you are just plain boring and dated in your opinions.

Larry
07 December 2007 at 14:35

I think it should be noted that a number of Turkish Cypriot consituents of Cllr Coleman have asked to meet with him. As far as I am aware Cllr Coleman has either ignored (or possibly has not yet had time to respond) or declined there meetings.

I will update when I have any further news...

Mike Pagomenos
18 December 2007 at 05:03

Priest stabbed after Sunday mass in Turkey

Suzan Fraser in Ankara

Monday December 17, 2007

The Guardian

A Catholic priest was stabbed in the stomach after Sunday mass yesterday in the latest in a series of attacks on Turkey's tiny Christian minority.

The victim, Adriano Franchini, was taken to hospital in Izmir in western Turkey. His injuries were reportedly not life threatening. Turkish police said they had detained the suspected attacker.

Franchini is responsible for the Capuchin order in Turkey and heads the Church of the Virgin Mary in Ephesus, the Italian embassy said.

The news channel Haberturk said the assailant approached the priest asking for information about Christianity. An argument broke out and the man stabbed the priest, the report said.

There have been a number of similar attacks over the past two years. In February 2006, at a time of widespread anger in the Islamic world over the publication in European newspapers of caricatures of the prophet Muhammad, a 16-year-old boy shot and killed a priest as he prayed in a church in the city of Trabzon.

After that murder a Catholic priest was attacked in Izmir and another was stabbed in the Black Sea port of Samsun.

In November this year an Assyrian cleric was abducted in south-east Turkey and rescued by security forces.

In April three Christians were killed at a publishing house that produces Bibles. Last week Turkey began an investigation into alleged collusion between police officers and at least one of the suspects charged in the killings. The three victims, a German and two Turks who had converted to Christianity, were tied up and had their throats slit.

Mike Pagomenos
21 December 2007 at 22:19

INTERNATIONAL GENOCIDE SCHOLARS ASSOCIATION OFFICIALLY RECOGNIZES ASSYRIAN, GREEK GENOCIDES

December 15, 2007

Issued by: Adam Jones, Ph.D.Associate Professor, Political Science University of British Columbia Okanagan

========================================

In a groundbreaking move, the International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS) has voted overwhelmingly to recognize the genocides inflicted on Assyrian and Greek populations of the Ottoman Empire between 1914 and 1923. The resolution passed with the support of fully 83 percent of IAGS members who voted. The resolution (text below) declares that "it is theconviction of the International Association of Genocide Scholars that the Ottoman campaign against Christian minorities of the Empire between1914 and 1923 constituted a genocide against Armenians, Assyrians, andPontian and Anatolian Greeks." It "calls upon the government of Turkeyto acknowledge the genocides against these populations, to issue a formal apology, and to take prompt and meaningful steps toward restitution."In 1997, the IAGS officially recognized the Armenian genocide. The current resolution notes that while activist and scholarly efforts haveresulted in widespread acceptance of the Armenian genocide, there has been "little recognition of the qualitatively similar genocides against other Christian minorities of the Ottoman Empire." Assyrians, along with Pontian and Anatolian Greeks, were killed on a scale equivalent inper capita terms to the catastrophe inflicted on the Armenian population of the empire -- and by much the same methods, including mass executions, death marches, and starvation.IAGS member Adam Jones drafted the resolution, and lobbied for it alongwith fellow member Thea Halo, whose mother Sano survived the Pontian Greek genocide. In an address to the membership at the IAGS conferencein Sarajevo, Bosnia, in July 2007, Jones paid tribute to the efforts of"representatives of the Greek and Assyrian communities ... to publicizeand call on the present Turkish government to acknowledge the genocidesinflicted on their populations," which had made Asia Minor their home for millennia. The umbrella term "Assyrians" includes Chaldeans, Nestorians, Syriacs, Aramaens, Eastern Orthodox Syrians, and Jacobites."The overwhelming backing given to this resolution by the world's leading genocide scholars organization will help to raise consciousnessabout the Assyrian and Greek genocides," Jones said on December 15. "Itwill also act as a powerful counter to those, especially in present-dayTurkey, who still ignore or deny outright the genocides of the OttomanChristian minorities."The resolution stated that "the denial of genocide is widely recognizedas the final stage of genocide, enshrining impunity for the perpetrators of genocide, and demonstrably paving the way for future genocides." The Assyrian population of Iraq, for example, remains highly vulnerable to genocidal attack. Since 2003, Iraqi Assyrians have been exposed to severe persecution and "ethnic cleansing"; it is believed that up to half the Assyrian population has fled the country.Extensive supporting documentation for the Assyrian and Greek genocideswas circulated to IAGS members in the months prior to the vote, and isavailable at http://www.genocidetext.net/iags_resolution_supporting_docum....

========================================

FULL TEXT OF THE IAGS RESOLUTION:

WHEREAS the denial of genocide is widely recognized as the final stage of genocide, enshrining impunity for the perpetrators of genocide, and demonstrably paving the way for future genocides; WHEREAS the Ottoman genocide against minority populations during and following the First World War is usually depicted as a genocide againstArmenians alone, with little recognition of the qualitatively similar genocides against other Christian minorities of the Ottoman Empire; BE IT RESOLVED that it is the conviction of the International Association of Genocide Scholars that the Ottoman campaign against Christian minorities of the Empire between 1914 and 1923 constituted a genocide against Armenians, Assyrians, and Pontian and Anatolian Greeks. BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Association calls upon the government of Turkey to acknowledge the genocides against these populations, to issue a formal apology, and to take prompt and meaningful steps toward restitution.

=======

samarkeolog
02 February 2008 at 01:51

There has been a lot of destruction on both sides - of churches and mosques and of community members' homes and even entire villages.

The village of Ayios Epiphanios (or Aybifan) (http://ayios-epiphanios-cultural-heritage.blogspot.com/) and the Turkish Cypriot village of the twinned Koutraphes, Pano Koutraphas (or Yukari Kurtbogan) (http://koutraphas-cultural-heritage.blogspot.com/) are just two of the Turkish Cypriot villages destroyed.

Bayraktar Camii, however, is just down the road from me right now and has not been destroyed; there is a car park right next to it and that car park may have been laid over a destroyed cemetery, like the car park next to Omeriye Camii, also in the old town of Nicosia, but still, Bayraktar Camii has not been destroyed, which undermines the list including it.

gunel
11 June 2008 at 13:28

I am saddened by your obvious biased comments against Turkish Cypriots, my father was the founder of VOLKAN and if it were not for organisations such as this then thousands more Turkish Cypriots would undoubdetedly be in mass hidden graves. It is clear that both sides have a lot to answer for but you clearly you have a narrow opinion. I suspect that you have a relative or family friend that may be Greek or Armenian. needless to say Turkey's accession into the EU would be a great prospect for Turkish Cyprus. However, the main excuse for refusal amongst others is their Human Rights record. I am a criminal lawyer with vast experience and I can certainly say that Britain is way ahead as is France when it comes to having a bad record for treatment of Prisoners and immigration Detainees. As a journalist yu are supposed to be accurate and write the truth not your own truth.

Robert Powell
11 June 2008 at 13:50

But he's not a journalist. He's a rightwing politician.

Zoe Angelopoulos
12 July 2008 at 07:59

The deliberate destruction of Christian cultural heritage in Cyprus by the occupying Turks is well-known and well-documented by independent sources. See for example:

http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/cyprus-portrait-christianit...

http://www.30giorni.it/us/articolo.asp?id=13541

Tax Payer
18 July 2008 at 15:42

Oh dear, oh dear ‘Grab-a-cab Coleman’! You have no credibility left after grabbing £8,000 of the tax payers’ money to pay for your taxi fares on top of claiming £1,720 for a travel card. This is how a Metro reader describes you, “Yet another thieving, money-grabbing, taxpayer funded, government employed, parasite! While everybody else has to pay for their personal travel, this greedy b*****d just 'swans around' in taxis, although he has already claimed for a travelcard at the taxpayers' expense. Charge him with theft from the public purse, make him repay the £8,000, fine him £20,000 and then SACK HIM!” Well, I couldn’t agree with Mr West more. What was the foreign travel expense of £323 that you claimed for? Your job is to deal with local issues, what on earth are you doing travelling abroad at the taxpayers’ expense? I hope you do get the SACK as that is what you deserve for wasting public money.

kwacka
19 July 2008 at 19:49

The period leading up to both invasions of 1974 (the second after the coup had failed and whilst talks were taking place in Switzerland) was charcterised by SOME Greek-Cypriots killing Turkish-Cypriots and Greek-Cypriots who stood in their way (look at the several attempts on Makarios' life) and SOME Turkish-Cypriots (e.g. the TMT) killing Greek-Cypriots and Turkish-Cypriots who stood in their way (including newspaper reporters and the bombing of the Turkish Press Agency in Nicosia). The generals in charge in Athens supplied EOKA-B whilst the military in Ankara supplied the TMT.

Most people did what they do elsewhere - they got on with life and tried to put food on the table for their families.

Over the past 3 years the 'green line' has been opened. Thousands of Turkish-Cypriots come to the free areas every day to work and shop, whilst Greek-Cypriots visit the north to see their family homes. During the winter I have played darts/pool teams both alongside and against people from both communities - with no sign of rancour.

This is not the same world as 40 years ago.

Turkey could end 'the isolation of Turkish-Cypriots' at any time they wish; all they have to do is adhere to one of the numerous UN Security Council resolutions passed since 1974.

Larry
20 August 2008 at 11:10

kwacka

The idea behind the Aktsis plan was to end the partnership of the Cypriots in Cyprus, the basis of the consitution is that both groups (Turks and Greek Cypriots) were both founding members of Republic and were equal.

The single largest stumbleing block is that the Greek Cypriot refuse to return to that status quo, while the Turkish Cypriots will not accept anything less.