Media
Obama, the prince of bait-and-switch
Published 24 July 2008
I interviewed a woman who had lost eight members of her family, including six children to a US bomb - but mass murder in Afghanistan isn't news
On 12 July, the Times devoted two pages to Afghanistan. It was mostly a complaint about the heat. The reporter, Magnus Linklater, described in detail his discomfort and how he had needed to be sprayed with iced water. He also described the "high drama" and "meticulously practised routine" of evacuating another overheated journalist. For her US Marine rescuers, wrote Linklater, "saving a life took precedence over [their] security". Alongside this was a report whose final paragraph offered the only mention that "47 civilians, most of them women and children, were killed when a US aircraft bombed a wedding party in eastern Afghanistan on Sunday".
Slaughters on this scale are common, and mostly unknown to the British public. I interviewed a woman who had lost eight members of her family, including six children. A 500lb US Mk82 bomb was dropped on her mud, stone and straw house. There was no "enemy" nearby. I interviewed a headmaster whose house disappeared in a fireball caused by another "precision" bomb. Inside were nine people - his wife, his four sons, his brother and his wife, and his sister and her husband. Neither of these mass murders was news. As Harold Pinter wrote of such crimes: "Nothing ever happened. Even while it was happening it wasn't happening. It didn't matter. It was of no interest."
A total of 64 civilians were bombed to death while the Times man was discomforted. Most were guests at a wedding party. Wedding parties are a "coalition" speciality. At least four of them have been obliterated - at Mazar and in Khost, Uruzgan and Nangarhar provinces. Many of the details, including the names of victims, have been compiled by a New Hampshire professor, Marc Herold, whose Afghan Victim Memorial Project is a meticulous work of journalism that shames those who are paid to keep the record straight and report almost everything about the Afghan War through the public relations facilities of the British and American military.
The US and its allies are dropping record numbers of bombs on Afghanistan. This is not news. In the first half of this year, 1,853 bombs were dropped: more than all the bombs of 2006 and most of 2007. "The most frequently used bombs," the Air Force Times reports, "are the 500lb and 2,000lb satellite-guided . . ." Without this one-sided onslaught, the resurgence of the Taliban, it is clear, might not have happened. Even Hamid Karzai, America's and Britain's puppet, has said so. The presence and the aggression of foreigners have all but united a resistance that now includes former warlords once on the CIA's payroll.
The scandal of this would be headline news, were it not for what George W Bush's former spokesman Scott McClellan has called "complicit enablers" - journalists who serve as little more than official amplifiers. Having declared Afghanistan a "good war", the complicit enablers are now anointing Barack Obama as he tours the bloodfests in Afghanistan and Iraq. What they never say is that Obama is a bomber.
In the New York Times on 14 July, in an article spun to appear as if he is ending the war in Iraq, Obama demanded more war in Afghan istan and, in effect, an invasion of Pakistan. He wants more combat troops, more helicopters, more bombs. Bush may be on his way out, but the Republicans have built an ideological machine that transcends the loss of electoral power - because their collaborators are, as the American writer Mike Whitney put it succinctly, "bait-and-switch" Democrats, of whom Obama is the prince.
Those who write of Obama that "when it comes to international affairs, he will be a huge improvement on Bush" demonstrate the same wilful naivety that backed the bait-and-switch of Bill Clinton - and Tony Blair. Of Blair, wrote the late Hugo Young in 1997, "ideology has surrendered entirely to 'values' . . . there are no sacred cows [and] no fossilised limits to the ground over which the mind might range in search of a better Britain . . ."
Eleven years and five wars later, at least a million people lie dead. Barack Obama is the American Blair. That he is a smooth operator and a black man is irrelevant. He is of an enduring, rampant system whose drum majors and cheer squads never see, or want to see, the consequences of 500lb bombs dropped unerringly on mud, stone and straw houses.
Post this article to
91 comments from readers
-
Jonny Mac
24 July 2008 at 10:32 "People are being killed by bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan...the media in the West is ignoring the fact that people are being killed by bombs...Obama's as bad as Bush...and insert quote from lefty play-wright as if it proves whatever point it is I'm making." There you are, NS, why not save yourself a bit of cash and just publish that every couple of weeks under Pilger's by-line. Oh, just make sure the piece offers no creative thinking or alternatives, and just criticises the UK, the US, and Australia, never those who detain and torture and kill in North Korea and China and Zimbabwe and......And the final rule, of course, is that terrorism is never the fault of terrorists. Unless "terrorism" is re-defined to include the military actions of Western armies, when, er, suddenly it is.
-
JC2
24 July 2008 at 11:28 John I have never read such a pack of lies in my entire life. And I know for a fact that you do not believe what you are writing. Actually, you know it to be untrue. And aren't you supposed to be in Colombia like I said? Go and do some good would ya soldier.
JC2
-
Claddach
24 July 2008 at 12:13 Mr Pilger calls New Hampshire professor, Marc Herold's Afghan Victim Memorial Project "a meticulous work of journalism". Really? Herold affected to have constructed a database of civilian casualties during the war in Afghanistan, yet his double- and even triple-counting of media reports, coupled with his refusal to share his data and sources with those he feared did not share his political beliefs, destroyed his credibility as a serious or even half-way competent statistician.
Iraq Body Count retains Herold as a consultant. It's thus unsurprising that Pilger fails to see what's wrong with this statement of his methodology:
"The minimum [quoted figure for Iraqi civilian deaths] can be zero if there is a report of "zero deaths" from two of our sources. "Unable to confirm any deaths" or similar wording (as in an official statement) does NOT amount to a report of zero, and will NOT lead to an entry of "0" in the minimum column". Er, yes. Then take away the last number you thought of.
-
Cybertiger
24 July 2008 at 12:23 "And the final rule, of course, is that terrorism is never the fault of terrorists. Unless "terrorism" is re-defined to include the military actions of Western armies, when, er, suddenly it is."
The simple thinking of simpletons like George Bush and Jonny Mac do not keep the great flocks safe.
-
maryb
24 July 2008 at 13:48 I see that the Zionist trolls are out early. Suggest that they also read Burying the Bride from the current alert on edialens.http://www.medialens.org/alerts/index.php
As John Pilger says, two pages of the Times were given over to reporting Afghanistan yet only 43 words sufficed for the death of 47 civilians.
'On the same day, a 490-word article in the Times focused on the fate of nine British troops injured when a US helicopter accidentally targeted them in a "friendly fire" incident. Six of the nine soldiers have since returned to duty, with three still receiving medical treatment. While 447 words were devoted to this story, the article concluded with two sentences totalling 43 words on the killing of the Afghan civilians:
"However, 47 civilians, most of them women and children, were killed when a US aircraft bombed a wedding party in eastern Afghanistan on Sunday, an Afghan government investigation has concluded. The nine-man investigation team found that only civilians were hit during the airstrike." (Dominic Kennedy and Michael Evans, 'Friendly fire inquiry to investigate messages from troops,' The Times, July 12, 2008)
At time of writing there have been five mentions of the 47 deaths in UK national quality newspapers. '
-
BlairSupporter
24 July 2008 at 14:13 I have never read John Pilger's 'words of wisdoms' before. Oh, what I have been missing!
The fact that he has won awards shows how British logic - much less values - (you need logic to have REAL values) - has been hijacked by the politically naive.
You cannot win an argument against a political decision on war on the basis of - "Oh isn't it terrible? All these people died!"
More of us, MANY more will die unless the west understands the REAL threat. And it isn't from Bush or Blair. I have no in-depth knowledge of Obama, but since he has chosen to speak to Blair on Saturday prior to meeting Brown, he can't be all bad.
He, if elected, will soon enough come to discover what we in the west are up against - Creeping Sharia Law.
When we allow that in, none of us, you or I, will be free to say what we like about politicians, war and peace or anything political or democratic. In fact, politicians, as we know them, will no longer exist.
Do a search for my blog - "ISLAMISTS - Accept democracy in western lands or go - just go"
-
alf marlow
24 July 2008 at 14:41 I found Obama's decision to meet with Blair and avoid being photographed with the current PM rather distasteful.
I am starting to have doubts about his manner, his convictions and future political choices.
Are we just being used as photo background in his presidential campaign?
-
Grundoon
24 July 2008 at 15:12 After reading this diatribe by someone who has received honors for his reporting makes me wonder just where our journalistic morality is. But, then, just as in the US, the liberal, left leaning, socialistic news media, with a few exceptions, take advantage of their freedom to write what they want to hasten the downfall of western civilization. Of course, when that happens, their heads will be the first to roll.
-
aussy2
24 July 2008 at 15:49 Thanks for the few journalist that have the courage to report the truth, a pity there are not a hundred more like John Pilger.
It is very easy to find who the Zionist trolls are, you just have to read their comments, always with nothing to support their claims as proved by sayings such as those JC2 and others.
Gerard from Spain
-
ikotubo
24 July 2008 at 16:16 I stopped taking the mainstream media seriously the day a BBC journalist described stone-throwing Palestinian kids (none of whom could possibly be older than 10) as being "in conflict" with Israel - yes, the same Israel with one of the most formidable military forces on earth, supported by over 200 nukes!
-
antileft
24 July 2008 at 16:17 What a tacky, useless journalist. No wonder none of the serious newspapers will employ him anymore.
-
phantom
24 July 2008 at 16:58 Keep up the good work John - we desperately need journalists like you!
-
gnuneo
24 July 2008 at 17:21 John, do you ever feel like King Canute? Depressing, isn't it?
are these bigots and warmongers the ocean, or are they they the poisonous oil slick on top, killing life wherever it touches?
are we even able to walk away, knowing what we do? Would we, even if we could?
-
pugnax
24 July 2008 at 18:08 Yes, yes...I don't care for Obama though I have his bumber sticker on my car. You're generally right. His bellicose blustering on Jerusalem and threats against Iran are truly disturbing. But as an American voter, what am I supposed to do? I can't refrain from voting. As far as Afghanistan is concerned, my favorite president since I became aware of things, Jimmy Carter, ultimately started this tragic mess (in the process of "winning the cold war"). Father, forgive me for I am going to vote.
-
knave
24 July 2008 at 19:04 I cannot understand the hatred for Pilger.
I don't even think he a leftie in the true sense of the word.
He gives an alternative view with passion.
We are surrounded by journalists who give the neo con, economic liberal, US propaganda view. There are thousands of Cohens , Brights, Goves, Hitchens, O Keefes, Johnsons and Brownes. God the list is endless.
Surely even a right wingers ( like AL, claddarch and Johnny mac) want to see as many alternative views as possible.
Also if you hate him so much why do read his columns.
-
BlairSupporter
24 July 2008 at 20:09 People here referring to the "right-wing Zionists" etc who have commented here would be interested to know my previous political background. It is anything BUT right-wing.
I am presently disenfranchised, for the simple reason that although the Tories and many in Labour understand the REAL issues ("join the dots", Blair once said) not ONE major party is telling it like it is.
And the Lib Dems were WRONG about Iraq.
The reason we are hearing nothing on this issue? All major parties are intimidated by the fear of losing the inner-city ethnic vote. Nothing else. No point of principle. They all understand what's going on here in this land of ours.
Interesting how some here feel that you are surrounded by right-wing views. The right-wing feel the opposite. You only need to read our press- from the 'NOTIndependent' to The Guardian, The Mail, Express ad nauseum. They are all anti-the Iraq invasion and anti-Blair by and large. Yet HE was the one who got it right, imho!
So if we all feel hard done by re press coverage, perhaps the balance isn't all that much out of kilter after all.
Guardianistos are the soul-mates for the pro-Pilgerites here. They're all anti-Israel, anti-America, anti-Blair. In fact I can't recall who they're for.
Oh yes, the poor misunderstood Islamist fundamentalists/terrorists.
http://keeptonyblairforpm.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/islamists...
-
timcampbellxyx
24 July 2008 at 20:12 Pilger juxtaposes some incredible facts about reporting on Iraq and makes Time look like modern day Marie Antoinettes. Thanks.
Pilgers was however, less convincing when he subsequently launched an attack on Barack Obama. Obama is not responsible for the efete concerns of Times journalists.
-
knave
24 July 2008 at 20:53 So if we all feel hard done by re press coverage, perhaps the balance isn't all that much out of kilter after all.
Do you read the newspapers. They despise your hero not because of his right wing views but because he was too left wing.
One newspaper, the Guardian and one periodical , this one gives people like Pilgerites a voice.
The rest make Blair look like Trotsky.
-
Cybertiger
24 July 2008 at 21:23 @pugnax
"But as an American voter, what am I supposed to do? I can't refrain from voting."
But most of you crazy, dangerous critters do ... and the rest of the flock deliver the world unto true evil ...
-
Beowulf
24 July 2008 at 21:51 Mr. Pilgar,
You hardly mention Obama as much as you go on about the murderers and bombers known to you as the American and British Forces. Do you REALLY believe our fathers, mothers, brothers and sisters of the military don't take every precaution to prevent harm to innocents? Do REALLY believe they are such sloppy shots that they are throwing bombs around willy nilly? Let me know when you pull your head out of your arse.
A Real American LADY
-
writeon
24 July 2008 at 22:02 The Western media has a definite tendancy to ignore or effectively de-humanize the victims of our imperial/colonialist adventures. This was always the case, "savages" rarely had names, families, or anyone to mourn for them.
Constrast the lack of information about the latest massacre in Afghanistan with the detail we are presented with whenever we are attacked or lose soldiers in our latest war for freedom and in defence of our way of life. Surely all human life is equally precious, not just the lives we value?
Are we supposed to be overjoyed when we kill "terrorists" in Afghanistan and Iraq? How far do we go down this road of imperial slaughter? Is one Western life really worth more than the lives of a hundred of the "enemy"? Because that's the ratio we have created.
During the first Gulf War to liberate Kuwait, we lost somewhere in the region of two or three hundred soldiers, whilst Iraqi losses were in the hundreds of thousands, and most of them were retreating! What do these vast, horrendous, disparities tell us about the nature of the way we choose to wage war? Mostly they tell a simple story. That we are massively powerful and bloodthirsty and our enemies, dispite what we are told in the propaganda war, weak and barely able to defend themselves against the staggering power of our onslaught.
Isnt' there a paradox at work here? On the one hand we are told that we face a massive threat from this season's "Hitler" or "Nazi Germany", yet once the war starts we sweep them aside with contemptuous ease on the battlefield. How can these puny nations be such a threat that we have no choice but to go to war with them, yet at the same time they are clearly so easy to defeat?
Obviously the truth is we are being duped on truly massive scale. There is no real terrorist threat to us, or our way of life. There is no international terrorist network. There is no Islamist danger. There is no such thing as Islamism. We are not under attack at all.
The acts of terror aimed at us are the acts of the weak who don't have other means to fight back and take revenge on us for our agression directed against them.
What really characterizes Western values? Self-delusion, hypocracy, double-standards, the desire to control the world, arrogance, racism, and most importantly our willingness to comitt acts of genocide over and over again, century after century.
And now we are back in Iraq and back in Afghanistan again and on our way into other savage countries. Both these countries are models for the future. Western imperialism and slaughter on a colonial scale are back, and this time with a vengence!
-
JC2
24 July 2008 at 22:29 Claddach you are on the mark with this:
Mr Pilger calls New Hampshire professor, Marc Herold's Afghan Victim Memorial Project "a meticulous work of journalism". Really? Herold affected to have constructed a database of civilian casualties during the war in Afghanistan, yet his double- and even triple-counting of media reports, coupled with his refusal to share his data and sources with those he feared did not share his political beliefs, destroyed his credibility as a serious or even half-way competent statistician.
And this:
Iraq Body Count retains Herold as a consultant. It's thus unsurprising that Pilger fails to see what's wrong with this statement of his methodology:
medialens.org had a run in with the IBC a while back and I am yet to know of a time when that lot were wrong. I am pretty disappointed that Pilger is using it when he is a close associate (if not friend) of the two Davids. He knows it's dodgy.
Good work, claddach.
JC2
-
JC2
24 July 2008 at 22:34 Cybertiger this is a good post:
"And the final rule, of course, is that terrorism is never the fault of terrorists. Unless "terrorism" is re-defined to include the military actions of Western armies, when, er, suddenly it is."
The simple thinking of simpletons like George Bush and Jonny Mac do not keep the great flocks safe.
I put my thoughts a bit more succintly on my blog jimmykrongold.wordpress.com. Here is the post in it's entirety (minus photo):
Terrorism is a legitimate tactic available to the oppressed. If those who are targeted by terrorists have a problem with that, then they can f**k off to another country or get rid of the government that caused the f**king problem in the first place.
And that is that.
JC2
-
JC2
24 July 2008 at 22:35 maryb you are all over it girl. Good stuff.
JC2
-
JC2
24 July 2008 at 22:45 BlairSupporter you are completely clueless. Give up would ya.
'I have never read John Pilger's 'words of wisdoms' before. Oh, what I have been missing!'
A: Wisdom, blairsupporter. That is what you have been missing.
'The fact that he has won awards shows how British logic - much less values - (you need logic to have REAL values) - has been hijacked by the politically naive.'
A: Incorrect. It shows that there are enough good people in this country to take down people like your namesake.
'You cannot win an argument against a political decision on war on the basis of - "Oh isn't it terrible? All these people died!"'
A: Why the hell not? Got a better way, blairsupporter? If so, please enlighten us next time. Or shut up.
'More of us, MANY more will die unless the west understands the REAL threat. And it isn't from Bush or Blair. I have no in-depth knowledge of Obama, but since he has chosen to speak to Blair on Saturday prior to meeting Brown, he can't be all bad.'
A: Yes, many more will die unless the west understands the real threat. And that threat is attitudes like yours putting politicians like Blair in the driver's seat. IT MOST CERTAINLY IS FROM bush and blair.
More of us, MANY more will die unless the west understands the REAL threat. And it isn't from Bush or Blair. I have no in-depth knowledge of Obama, but since he has chosen to speak to Blair on Saturday prior to meeting Brown, he can't be all bad.
Nice to know you are a very poorly informed political commentator. I am starting to wonder if you actually are Tony Blair. And Obama's real purpose here is NOT to meet Gordon bloody Brown or Tony friggin' Blair.
'He, if elected, will soon enough come to discover what we in the west are up against - Creeping Sharia Law.'
A: Rubbish.
'In fact, politicians, as we know them, will no longer exist.'
A: This is actually correct. Lucky bastard.
'Do a search for my blog - "ISLAMISTS - Accept democracy in western lands or go - just go"'
A: Incorrect. Go to my blog. No need to do a search for it. Here is the address for your ultimate truth seeking convenience. jimmykrongold.wordpress.com.
JC2
-
JC2
24 July 2008 at 22:48 'I found Obama's decision to meet with Blair and avoid being photographed with the current PM rather distasteful.'
A: Don't ever underestimate the power of symbolism and body language.
'I am starting to have doubts about his manner, his convictions and future political choices.'
A: Don't.
'Are we just being used as photo background in his presidential campaign?'
A: Never underestimate the power of a photo. It tells a thousand words, after all.
JC2
-
JC2
24 July 2008 at 22:53 Grundoon:
'After reading this diatribe by someone who has received honors for his reporting makes me wonder just where our journalistic morality is.'
A: This was, admittedly, not one of John's finer efforts. And I can tell you exactly where our journalistic morality is. In the gutter. That is why John is proud to have been marginalised. And that is why I think he is great.
'But, then, just as in the US, the liberal, left leaning, socialistic news media, with a few exceptions, take advantage of their freedom to write what they want to hasten the downfall of western civilization [AS WE KNOW IT].'
A: And what is wrong with that?
'Of course, when that happens, their heads will be the first to roll.'
A: Incorrect. Yours will be.
JC2
-
JC2
24 July 2008 at 22:54 (fellow) aussy2:
Nice work. There actually are many more like John. They are in cyberspace. And thanks for the endorsement, pal. I appreciate that very much.
JC2
-
JC2
24 July 2008 at 22:55 Yes ikotubo. Yes.
JCD2
-
JC2
24 July 2008 at 22:56 Ha. anitleft I luv ya mate but you are an idiot.
JC2
-
JC2
24 July 2008 at 22:57 As phantom himself said:
Keep up the good work John - we desperately need journalists like you!
JC2
-
JC2
24 July 2008 at 23:00 'John, do you ever feel like King Canute? Depressing, isn't it?'
A: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Canute
are these bigots and warmongers the ocean, or are they they the poisonous oil slick on top, killing life wherever it touches?
A: The poisonous oil slick on top, pal.
are we even able to walk away, knowing what we do? Would we, even if we could?
A: No. We have to fight. Just like we are right here. Good work, soldier.
JC2
-
BlairSupporter
24 July 2008 at 23:01 To knave - you caught me out there, my friend!
Yes, I DON'T read the newspapers! They're all opinion, based on hearsay & prejudice and built on constantly moving political stances. They do not report to inform, but twist to misinform. They are the real "spin merchants".
If you are right and the papers hate Blair for being too left-wing, that explains their confusion. They don't know which way they're leaning.
Most of them hate Europe ... and then again they hate America too. Both of these, Blair loves! So is he right-wing or left-wing?
I really DO think you are on a sticky wicket to try to write Blair off as being ANY wing. That's the papers' mistake too.
He changed the rules.
Now all the parties are more or less in the same place as regards most policy areas. Or haven't you noticed? Who managed that amazing feat? I wonder.
What went wrong for Blair was that he was way ahead of the game. Add to that the fact that some are disappointed in some of his decisions. Well, fancy that. We didn't all get what we wanted.
How unfair.
But let me try to work this out "wing" business out:
His party got rid of him because he was too right-wing. So they put in Brown who they thought was left-wing but he has turned out to be just as right-wing as Blair in the same controversial policy areas.
The country is supposed to be anti the Iraq war (so the voters must be left wing).
But they are going to vote in the Tories who used to be right-wing but aren't too sure any more, because their leader idolises Blair (as he should) and is keeping most of his policies. So the voters will vote for Blairism again, sans Blair. Only it'll be a right-wing party they get.
Meanwhile Brown and Cameron are competing for the same territory - Blair's.
Confused? I'm not surprised.
Labour made its biggest mistake last year in letting Blair go.
Now, unless Cameron messes up big time, I reckon THIS could be Labour's obituary.
http://keeptonyblairforpm.wordpress.com/2008/04/20/death-of-...
-
JC2
24 July 2008 at 23:04 'Yes, yes...I don't care for Obama though I have his bumber sticker on my car.'
A: Well you must care for him a bit pugnax.
'You're generally right.'
A: Well put.
'His bellicose blustering on Jerusalem and threats against Iran are truly disturbing.'
A: All a charade, mate. Don't worry about it.
'But as an American voter, what am I supposed to do? I can't refrain from voting.'
A: Well then bugger off. Obama won't need your vote anyway.
As far as Afghanistan is concerned, my favorite president since I became aware of things, Jimmy Carter, ultimately started this tragic mess (in the process of "winning the cold war").
A: Yeah, and he was one of the better ones.
Father, forgive me for I am going to vote.
A: If it is for Obama then you are forgiven.
JC2
-
JC2
24 July 2008 at 23:11 G'day knave. Hope you are well.
'I cannot understand the hatred for Pilger.'
A: I can. He is inconsistent. The result of that is that is polarization. Both sides are wrong, but one is more wrong than the other.
'I don't even think he a leftie in the true sense of the word.'
A: Correct. He has never, as far as I am aware described himself as 'left-wing'. He is a seeker of truth. Like me, but not as good. I had a run in with Jonny Mac over this the last couple of weeks. He still hasn't answered me properly. Coward.
'He gives an alternative view with passion.'
A: Yeah and it's a shame that the view of the best journalist in the world is considered 'alternative' isn't it.
'We are surrounded by journalists who give the neo con, economic liberal, US propaganda view. There are thousands of Cohens , Brights, Goves, Hitchens, O Keefes, Johnsons and Brownes. God the list is endless.'
A: Yep. All in all a pretty useless bunch.
'Surely even a right wingers ( like AL, claddarch and Johnny mac) want to see as many alternative views as possible.'
A: I think they do, actually. Because they think they are smart and want to show the world their intelligence. But all they are doing is embarrassing themselves in front of the ENTIRE GLOBAL POPULATION. hahahaha.
'Also if you hate him so much why do read his columns.'
A: See previous answer.
JC2
-
JC2
24 July 2008 at 23:19 'Okay war criminal supporter:
'People here referring to the "right-wing Zionists" etc who have commented here would be interested to know my previous political background. It is anything BUT right-wing.'
A: Well congratufrigginlations.
'I am presently disenfranchised, for the simple reason that although the Tories and many in Labour understand the REAL issues ("join the dots", Blair once said) not ONE major party is telling it like it is.'
A: With comments like that I reckon I have just found my third fascist to go along side John Bolton and Australia's own Andrew Bolt (heraldsun.com.au)
'And the Lib Dems were WRONG about Iraq.'
A: They supported it then, did they?
'The reason we are hearing nothing on this issue? All major parties are intimidated by the fear of losing the inner-city ethnic vote. Nothing else. No point of principle. They all understand what's going on here in this land of ours.'
A: The reason we are hearing nothing is because the current crop have the blood of millions on their hands. And if they understood what was going on in this land of yours they would quit.
'Interesting how some here feel that you are surrounded by right-wing views. The right-wing feel the opposite.'
A: That's because you are surrounded. We snuck up on you fascist types.
'You only need to read our press- from the 'NOTIndependent' to The Guardian, The Mail, Express ad nauseum. They are all anti-the Iraq invasion and anti-Blair by and large. Yet HE was the one who got it right.'
A: Two wrongs in the one paragraph do not make a right, that has just been proven beyond any shadow of a doubt.
'So if we all feel hard done by re press coverage, perhaps the balance isn't all that much out of kilter after all.'
A: It is improving but it is still massively out of kilter and those responsible for putting it out of kilter will face justice.
'Guardianistos are the soul-mates for the pro-Pilgerites here.'
A: No they bloody well are not.
'They're all anti-Israel, anti-America, anti-Blair. In fact I can't recall who they're for.'
A: We are for Truth.
Oh yes, the poor misunderstood Islamist fundamentalists/terrorists.
A: Finally making some sense I see collaborator.
JC2
http://keeptonyblairforpm.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/islamists...
-
JC2
24 July 2008 at 23:20 Oh yeah, and this:
jimmykrongold.wordpress.com
JC2
-
JC2
24 July 2008 at 23:22 G'day timcampbellxyx. Welcome aboard.
'Pilger juxtaposes some incredible facts about reporting on Iraq and makes Time look like modern day Marie Antoinettes. Thanks.'
A: Yeah, thanks John.
'Pilgers was however, less convincing when he subsequently launched an attack on Barack Obama. Obama is not responsible for the efete concerns of Times journalists.'
A: Yeah, good call. I like you.
JC2
-
JC2
24 July 2008 at 23:25 Ooh. Mystical Beowulf is here.
'You hardly mention Obama as much as you go on about the murderers and bombers known to you as the American and British Forces. Do you REALLY believe our fathers, mothers, brothers and sisters of the military don't take every precaution to prevent harm to innocents? Do REALLY believe they are such sloppy shots that they are throwing bombs around willy nilly? Let me know when you pull your head out of your arse.
A: Yes. And it is your arse that is full of head. Yours.
A Real American LADY
A: Incorrect. Here is one:
http://www.jennifer-walcott.org/pictures/Jennifer-Walcott-Se...
JC2
-
BlairSupporter
24 July 2008 at 23:33 Oooh! JC2 is upset. Help. Mum!
So upset he can't stop writing. Soul.
Anyway, two can play at that game.
Q: BlairSupporter you are completely clueless. Give up would ya.
A: Nope!
Correction to this:
"It shows that there are enough good people in this country to take down people like your namesake."
Pilger and GOOD people like him, did NOT take down Blair. His party did, in their stupidity, for the sake of their own seats, since they had been told their 3 times winner would lose their seats for them! Who by? The agenda'd press, of course!
And they innocently thought that Brown would help retain those seats.
Get your facts straight. The people were never asked about Blair going - and now they know what they've lost.
http://keeptonyblairforpm.wordpress.com/2008/06/22/opinion-p...
The dead in wars:
Millions died in previous wars, thousands per day for years. For freedom. The conflicts in the Middle East are for OUR freedom. You MUST understand this, even if you don't agree with the Iraq decision. Politicians are put there in order to see the bigger picture. Precisely the reason Brown now understands Iraq, and Obama is getting there. If he is ever President HE will disappoint pacifists too! Such is life.
Of course he won't be elected.
What you are saying is weak and unforgivable as far as the future of democracy is concerned. I did not vote for Blair - (and no I am not Blair) - I was involved with another party for many years (not any more!) But our politicians are elected democratically and I accept the democratic decision. When and if it's Cameron, I'll accept that too.
As for being "poorly informed" how much do you know about the real threat to our freedoms? Not the civil/human righters nonsense - the REAL threat to democracy. Go and watch some of the videos at my latest post and then tell me there is no threat from fundamentalists who feign religious reasons for killing you and me.
Creeping Sharia Law - rubbish? Do YOU ever read the papers?
You betray yourself with this:
'In fact, politicians, as we know them, will no longer exist.'
A: This is actually correct. Lucky b******d.
Asterixed out the above. Sorry, but I consider abusive language ill-considered, unnecessary, the depths of bad manners and the measure of an opponent. Old fashioned? You bet!
You are clearly an anarchist. So what do you care about democracy?
For the ulitmate truth go here and click on the picture:
http://ibloga.blogspot.com/2008/07/hamas-say-lets-drink-bloo...
Those are your enemies, not me, or Blair. We are opponents. Understand the difference.
My blog - not the ultimate truth - just MY opinions:
http://keeptonyblairforpm.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/islamists...
-
JC2
24 July 2008 at 23:35 Oh shit it's writeon with a really long post. Okay, here we go. Last one for the night:
'The Western media has a definite tendancy to ignore or effectively de-humanize the victims of our imperial/colonialist adventures. This was always the case, "savages" rarely had names, families, or anyone to mourn for them.'
A: No need to answer that one.
Constrast the lack of information about the latest massacre in Afghanistan with the detail we are presented with whenever we are attacked or lose soldiers in our latest war for freedom and in defence of our way of life. Surely all human life is equally precious, not just the lives we value?
A: No need again.
'Are we supposed to be overjoyed when we kill "terrorists" in Afghanistan and Iraq? How far do we go down this road of imperial slaughter? Is one Western life really worth more than the lives of a hundred of the "enemy"? Because that's the ratio we have created.'
A: This is easier than what I thought it would be. Nice.
During the first Gulf War to liberate Kuwait, we lost somewhere in the region of two or three hundred soldiers, whilst Iraqi losses were in the hundreds of thousands, and most of them were retreating! What do these vast, horrendous, disparities tell us about the nature of the way we choose to wage war? Mostly they tell a simple story. That we are massively powerful and bloodthirsty and our enemies, dispite what we are told in the propaganda war, weak and barely able to defend themselves against the staggering power of our onslaught.
A: Y.
Isnt' there a paradox at work here? On the one hand we are told that we face a massive threat from this season's "Hitler" or "Nazi Germany", yet once the war starts we sweep them aside with contemptuous ease on the battlefield.
A: Well I don't know about 'ease'. My understanding is the those Muslims are putting up a brave fight.
'How can these puny nations be such a threat that we have no choice but to go to war with them, yet at the same time they are clearly so easy to defeat?'
A: Well, they're not are they. And it's oil. Did I really need to tell you that?
Obviously the truth is we are being duped on truly massive scale. There is no real terrorist threat to us, or our way of life. There is no international terrorist network. There is no Islamist danger. There is no such thing as Islamism. We are not under attack at all.
A: If we are then it is our own fault. See my post at 24 July 2008 at 22:34.
The acts of terror aimed at us are the acts of the weak who don't have other means to fight back and take revenge on us for our agression directed against them.
A: Oh yeah, didn't need to put that last A in did I. Sorry.
What really characterizes Western values? Self-delusion, hypocracy, double-standards, the desire to control the world, arrogance, racism, and most importantly our willingness to comitt acts of genocide over and over again, century after century.
A: tick.
And now we are back in Iraq and back in Afghanistan again and on our way into other savage countries. Both these countries are models for the future. Western imperialism and slaughter on a colonial scale are back, and this time with a vengence!
A: Yeah, but only for a matter of days, pal.
And the post of the night goes to WRITEON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm going to give you a really nice prize one day writeon. You just get in touch with me if there is ANYTHING you ever need. Material, emotional or spiritual. I am a genie in your bottle pal. And you deserve it. Well done writeon.
JC2
-
JC2
24 July 2008 at 23:51 blairsupporter:
'Pilger and GOOD people like him, did NOT take down Blair. His party did, in their stupidity, for the sake of their own seats, since they had been told their 3 times winner would lose their seats for them!'
A: Us good people have not yet really started with Tony Blair.
'Get your facts straight.'
A: What fact was not straight?
jimmykrongold.wordpress.com
'Millions died in previous wars, thousands per day for years.'
A: Correct.
'For freedom.'
A: Incorrect.
'The conflicts in the Middle East are for OUR freedom.'
A: Incorrect.
'You MUST understand this'
A: I understand that it is wrong.
'even if you don't agree with the Iraq decision.'
A: Of course I don't. What an insult.
'Politicians are put there in order to see the bigger picture.'
A: Yes. And that is why I don't like most politicians.
'Precisely the reason Brown now understands Iraq'
A: What are you actually basing this on?
'and Obama is getting there.'
A: Obama knows everything. Like me.
'If he is ever President'
A: He could be President a lot sooner than you think, pal.
HE will disappoint pacifists too!'
A: No he won't.
Such is life.
A: Ned Kelly said that. That's another really big insult when someone like you uses a saying like that.
'What you are saying is weak and unforgivable as far as the future of democracy is concerned.'
A: Hahahaha. You idiot.
I did not vote for Blair - (and no I am not Blair) - I was involved with another party for many years (not any more!) But our politicians are elected democratically and I accept the democratic decision.
A: That's your problem. You are too accepting.
When and if it's Cameron, I'll accept that too.
A: Well, it will be. But that is hardly going out on a limb.
'As for being "poorly informed" how much do you know about the real threat to our freedoms?'
A: A lot more than you.
'Not the civil/human righters nonsense'
A: Oh that sort of attitude is unforgivable.
'the REAL threat to democracy'
A: Is actually democracy. Ironic, huh.
Go and watch some of the videos at my latest post and then tell me there is no threat from fundamentalists who feign religious reasons for killing you and me.
A: Are they videos of yourself?
'Creeping Sharia Law - rubbish? Do YOU ever read the papers?'
A: Yes. But, unlike you, I can see through the lies.
You betray yourself with this:
'In fact, politicians, as we know them, will no longer exist.'
A: Ah, no. I did not.
A: This is actually correct. Lucky b******d.
Asterixed out the above. Sorry, but I consider abusive language ill-considered, unnecessary, the depths of bad manners and the measure of an opponent.
A: I consider you to be all of those things. And I have your measure completely.
'You are clearly an anarchist.'
A: Negative.
So what do you care about democracy?
A: Of course I care about it. Deeply.
For the ulitmate truth go here and click on the picture:
jimmykrongold.wordpress.com
Those are your enemies, not me, or Blair. We are opponents. Understand the difference.
A: Incorrect. You are one of many of my enemies.
My blog - not the ultimate truth - just MY opinions:
jimmykrongold.wordpress.com
Oh, and mine IS the ultimate Truth. Also happens to be my opinions. Or, more accurately, judgements.
JC2
-
BlairSupporter
25 July 2008 at 00:04 The Second Coming - JC2 is at it again. Line by line stuff. Just as I used to do when I was teaching kids. Looks like I've got the old job back.
Drat! and I can't stand stupid kids!
Just so you can sleep better tonight Second Coming, I thought I'd sign off with a "well, you've never had it so good". Sweet dreams.
You clearly can only cope with one word at a time so -
E**f
O*f
Id**t
If you hate this country so much clear off and take your beloved terrorists with you. We don't need you here.
Love and kisses,
Your Sworn Enemy
http://keeptonyblairforpm.wordpress.com/2007/12/11/are-you-a...
-
Grundoon
25 July 2008 at 00:15 JC2,
So, who appointed you the moral guardian for the world? Some of your comments sound like the ramblings of a teen age English student attempting to create a worthy essay for his class. Forget it JC2. Your argument is just so much rehashed garbage spewed by the left. And I hope your initials don't stand for Jesus Christ the second. That would make you almost as big a boor as Obama.
-
ConorOberstIsGo
25 July 2008 at 01:23 I doubt John would waste his time reading this - just look at some of the ridiculous things put up here: "just as in the US, the liberal, left leaning, socialistic news media, with a few exceptions, take advantage of their freedom to write what they want to hasten the downfall of western civilization. Of course, when that happens, their heads will be the first to roll." this whole line is a) ridiculous b) totalitarian* and c) militant. That's right, 'militant'; who else thinks that a journalist should be punished for speaking out against a system of runaway capitalism that has resulted in the biggest 'bust' for twenty yrs?
*nobody 'takes advantage of their freedom' in a truly free society, they excercise their right to free speech.
I don't agree with Pilger _every_ time but why this comment section exists is beyond me; if you people had anything to say that belongs in print, make it happen - scupper this 'lefty charlatan' for all he's worth - if you can....
-
MarkBin
25 July 2008 at 03:32 I find BlairSupporter's comments extremely disturbing. So what if Sharia law spreads. We're not talking about Wahhabism for everyone here; it's just a law system for family and personal matters. If you're a non-Muslim adhere to something else. Simple as that. As a Caucasian male of Christian heritage, I believe we've passed the point of branding people of different heritages immigrants - Islam is now as much a part of British life as Christianity. Scale is irrelevant. Therefore to deny a certain section of our society the right to practise its way of life/faith freely is to cast away our values of liberty and freedom. By isolating people in the way BlairSupporter promotes, we're forcing them to interpret the Qur'an in a way that is harmful to everyone. Bombing wedding parties doesn't help either.
-
Beowulf
25 July 2008 at 03:40 Beowulf here. Have you had some sleep? It's going to be a bumpy ride. Nice picture of Jennifer JC2. She's holding two American flags. Of course, I know she's propped, but pretty anyway. I do apologize for the personal attack on Mr. Pilger (the arse thing). That is normally not me. You were justified in attackingt back. However, I felt he personally attacked my beloved American and British Military; visa vie, the strikeback. Not very ladylike, eh? I happen to be in touch with various members of the American and British troops. I know their character. I know how much they suffer. I know how much they sacrifice for the Iraqis and the Afghans, not to mention the sacrifice to their own families. I have read through everything now and I realize that JC2 is not doing Mr. Pilger any favors. People leave sites because of personal attacks and cussing. What is there to learn from driving people away from the very person you are defending or idolizing? I feel sorry for Mr. Pilger if this is all he has defending his editorial. He's probably a very nice man. Handsome at the very least. I feel he's just misinformed. Or he is informed and chooses to ignore it. Let's take China, for instance. Did you see that China is not allowing Iran at the Olympics? Hmmmm.
They must be warmongers, eh? Why don't they just talk, eh? After all, China is not a democracy. What's the matter with the Chinese? They must be puppets of the USA. Any country that doesn't want to talk must be a puppet of the USA. Why can't we all just get along? There is an old, old, old adage; freedom is NOT free. Never has been, NEVER will be. How about this Sharia law creeping into British law? Have you checked the freedoms on Sharia Law lately? In Dubai, they have outlawed sex on the beach, women who are not properly dressed (Oh Jennifer!), homosexuality, burglary, murder, etc and etc. It's working very well. Many "conservatives" are buying vacation homes in Dubai. No, no.....no sex on the beach baby.....no homosexuality anywhere...uh oh. Where is all this going? It's going the way of Islam IMHO. Is that what you want? Do you have a deep-seated need to be penalized or tortured for your democratic ways? OR do you really think it will NEVER happen in your country? Mr. Pilger is feeding the lion. The lion has his mouth open wide. He's just smiling at the liberal left in the democracies. There are dictators out there smiling, too. Hugo Chavez is cozing up to Russia. He wants to keep his people in line. He needs other dictatorships to feed his hunger for power. If there were no America and If there was no Britain, we would not be discussing any of this. We would not BE. Why is it so wrong to protect your democracy? Why is it so wrong to protect YOUR freedoms? Ok, I'm done. Can we talk?
-
gnuneo
25 July 2008 at 04:06 JC2: unfortunately, i think you're wrong to pin your hopes on Obama. He is certainly the best of a bad trio, but remember how the democrats were going to "end the war if they won Congress"?
so... what happened there then??
nor will Obama go against the Policies of Imperial America, the troops are in Iraq, and they are there for the long haul - quite probably the only thing that could end it, as it did the Vietnam War, is general conscription, when the middle and upper classes start losing their children, then, and ONLY then, will this holocaust stop. At the moment it is only poor people dying, and frankly, in cold-blooded reality, the ruling class of America kill more American poor people every day through the lack of decent social services (such as health care) than are dying in Iraq every month.
does anyone imagine that Bush or many of his class give two monkeys about the American poor? Let alone the Iraqi people, who do not even rate names in reporting, or even to have the correct and accurate death-toll reported.
the only "change" we will see in the White House, is a smoother talking operator, the Yankee equivalent of Blair taking over from the Tories, continuing the same policies but smiling a lot more in the hope (apparently realised) that it would take people some time to work it out, and then the Tories are back in again once the electorate once it out.
Look for massive disenchantment with Obama as the economy grinds itself into the dirt and he doesn't do jack-shit except tinker with it amid loud fanfares (all hotly disputed by the right-wing talking heads, making out it is huge policy changes when actually - it won't be at all), and then jeb bush in 2012, to put the final death stroke to America's republic in all but name, if there is still anything left of it anyway.
it would have been the same if Clinton had won, and only slightly variant if McCain did.
or, of course, the military allow Chimpie to attack Iran, or get Israel to do it for them, and then the whole shebang of global civilisation will go down the crapper faster than a vindaloo downed with a bottle of olive oil, with some ex-lax as dessert.
-
MarkBin
25 July 2008 at 04:07 Beowulf
With 53 ahtletes this year, Iran is sending its largest team to an Olympic games since Montreal in 1976. What are you talking about?
-
gnuneo
25 July 2008 at 04:15 beowulf: interesting, but frankly, as a western citizen, i am FAR more concerned about the creeping extreme Christianity in our nations, not Islam.
Compared to Christianity, Islam is a model of Liberalism - women are allowed to own property, to divorce, to have a say in political life, their word is allowed in courts of law, and they can vote.
Islam is not occupying any other country with associated mass slaughter (and genocide is no longer a taboo word regarding the events in Iraq), the Christian Right are.
Islam are not subverting our democratic structures by quiet hand-shake deals and hidden corruption - the Christian Right are.
please, PLEASE read this article if you are worried about the freedoms in our Liberal Democracies, and learn where the REAL threat is coming from:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/9178374/gods_sena...
-
Gideon Polya
25 July 2008 at 05:00 Excellent, humane article by John Pilger .
As estimated in November 2007: http://www.countercurrents.org/polya081107.htm - post-invasion non-violent excess deaths in Occupied Afghanistan - a month on from the 6th anniversary of the war criminal US invasion and occupation on 7th October 2001 – totalled an estimated 3.2 million.
However comparisons with Occupied Iraq (1.5-2 million TOTAL post-invasion excess deaths, and 0.8-1.2 million or about 50% of these being VIOLENT deaths) suggest that the post-invasion VIOLENT excess deaths in Occupied Afghanistan could total 3 million i.e post-invasion violent plus non-violent excess deaths could total 6 million.
Just check with UNICEF: http://www.unicef.org/index.php and you will discover that under-5 infant deaths in Occupied Afghanistan total 327,000 EACH YEAR i.e. about 1,000 infants being passively murdered by the US Alliance every day - and how?
Consult with WHO: http://www.who.int/countries/en/ and you will find that the "total annual medical expenditure permitted by the Occupiers in Occupied Afghanistan is only $26
as compared to $6,350 for the US - gross violation of the the Geneva Convention that demands that an Occupier provides life-sustaining requisites to the Occupied "to the fullest extent of the means available to it".
Obama is a prospective war criminal - he indeed wants MORE of the same in Occupied Afghanistan - 1,000 dead Afghan infants every day and an estimated 470,000 non-violent excess deaths annually in US-, UK-, NATO and White Australia-occupied Afghanistan.
We don't know who did 9/11 (the former president of Italy and intelligence intimate Francesco Cossiga asserts that the US and Israel did 9/11 for obvious reasons) but even the "official lying Bush version" says that NO Iraqis or Afghans were involved.
However authoritative UN Population Division , UNICEF and WHO data tell us precisely who are passively murdering 1,000 Afghan infants every DAY.
Obama hasn't even become president yet but is already involved in Holocaust Commission, Holocaust Ignoring and Holocaust Denial.
The fundamental messages from the Jewish Holocaust (6 million dead, 1 in 6 dying from deprivation) and the Western theatre World War 2 Holocaust in general (30 million Slav, Jewish and Roma dead) are "zero tolerance for racism" and "never again to anyone" - core messages ignored by the racist Zionists, the racist Bush-ites and by racist, Zionist-beholden neo-Bush-ite Obama.
Obama is not so much an Uncle Tom as an Uncle Adolph - but he is the best we can hope for out of the racist, mass murdering, mass paedocidal, anti-Arab anti-Semitic, Islamophobic, Zionist-beholden Amerikan Murdochracy .
From a purely Australian perspective, the "annual death rate" of under-5 year old infants in US-, UK-, NATO- and White Australia-occupied Occupied Afghanistan is 6.2% as compared to 10.2 % for Australian prisoners of war of the Japanese in WW2 (for which crime Japanese generals were arraigned, tried and hanged) .
-
knave
25 July 2008 at 06:52 John
The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.
Oscar Wilde
-
JC2
25 July 2008 at 08:30 The Second Coming - JC2 is at it again. Line by line stuff. Just as I used to do when I was teaching kids. Looks like I've got the old job back.
Drat! and I can't stand stupid kids!
Just so you can sleep better tonight Second Coming, I thought I'd sign off with a "well, you've never had it so good". Sweet dreams.
You clearly can only cope with one word at a time so -
E**f
O*f
Id**t
If you hate this country so much clear off and take your beloved terrorists with you. We don't need you here.
Love and kisses,
Your Sworn Enemy
jimmykrongold.wordpress.com
JC2
-
JC2
25 July 2008 at 08:31 grundoon:
JC2,
So, who appointed you the moral guardian for the world? Some of your comments sound like the ramblings of a teen age English student attempting to create a worthy essay for his class. Forget it JC2. Your argument is just so much rehashed garbage spewed by the left. And I hope your initials don't stand for Jesus Christ the second. That would make you almost as big a boor as Obama.
A: Ted.
-
JC2
25 July 2008 at 08:34 ConorOberstisGo
'I doubt John would waste his time reading this'
A: Incorrect. In the comments section of 'Fabricate that Truth' there is a post under the name 'me'. 'me' is John bloody Pilger.
just look at some of the ridiculous things put up here: "just as in the US, the liberal, left leaning, socialistic news media, with a few exceptions, take advantage of their freedom to write what they want to hasten the downfall of western civilization. Of course, when that happens, their heads will be the first to roll." this whole line is a) ridiculous b) totalitarian* and c) militant. That's right, 'militant'; who else thinks that a journalist should be punished for speaking out against a system of runaway capitalism that has resulted in the biggest 'bust' for twenty yrs?
*nobody 'takes advantage of their freedom' in a truly free society, they excercise their right to free speech.
I don't agree with Pilger _every_ time but why this comment section exists is beyond me; if you people had anything to say that belongs in print, make it happen - scupper this 'lefty charlatan' for all he's worth - if you can....
A: Well done. I love you.
JC2
-
JC2
25 July 2008 at 08:36 MarkBin
I find BlairSupporter's comments extremely disturbing. So what if Sharia law spreads. We're not talking about Wahhabism for everyone here; it's just a law system for family and personal matters. If you're a non-Muslim adhere to something else. Simple as that. As a Caucasian male of Christian heritage, I believe we've passed the point of branding people of different heritages immigrants - Islam is now as much a part of British life as Christianity. Scale is irrelevant. Therefore to deny a certain section of our society the right to practise its way of life/faith freely is to cast away our values of liberty and freedom. By isolating people in the way BlairSupporter promotes, we're forcing them to interpret the Qur'an in a way that is harmful to everyone. Bombing wedding parties doesn't help either.
jimmykrongold.wordpress.com
JC2
-
JC2
25 July 2008 at 08:42 Yes bewulf. I would love to talk to you. Anytime you want. Why don't you email sometime at jimmykrongold@yahoo.com.
Best wishes and peace and love to all,
JC2
ps. jimmykrongold.wordpress.com
-
JC2
25 July 2008 at 08:50 gnuneo:
JC2: unfortunately, i think you're wrong to pin your hopes on Obama. He is certainly the best of a bad trio, but remember how the democrats were going to "end the war if they won Congress"?
so... what happened there then??
A: I am not pinning my anything on anyone. I am the one having hopes pinned to him. Virtually every person on this planet has his and her hopes pinned on my left lapel. Even you gnuneo.
nor will Obama go against the Policies of Imperial America [incorrect], the troops are in Iraq [correct], and they are there for the long haul - quite probably the only thing that could end it, as it did the Vietnam War, is general conscription, when the middle and upper classes start losing their children, then, and ONLY then, will this holocaust stop [incorrect. The Iraq war will end right NOW]. At the moment it is only poor people dying, and frankly, in cold-blooded reality, the ruling class of America kill more American poor people every day through the lack of decent social services (such as health care) than are dying in Iraq every month.[correct]
does anyone imagine that Bush or many of his class give two monkeys about the American poor? [not me. and I am the only one whose thoughts count] Let alone the Iraqi people, who do not even rate names in reporting, or even to have the correct and accurate death-toll reported.[good point]
the only "change" we will see in the White House, is a smoother talking operator [incorrect. The white house will actually be painted like a zebra for Barack], the Yankee equivalent of Blair taking over from the Tories, continuing the same policies but smiling a lot more in the hope (apparently realised) that it would take people some time to work it out, and then the Tories are back in again once the electorate once it out.[nothing could be further from the Truth my dear gruneo. jimmykrongold.wordpress.com]
Look for massive disenchantment with Obama as the economy grinds itself into the dirt and he doesn't do jack-shit except tinker with it amid loud fanfares (all hotly disputed by the right-wing talking heads, making out it is huge policy changes when actually - it won't be at all), and then jeb bush in 2012, to put the final death stroke to America's republic in all but name, if there is still anything left of it anyway.[incorrect]
it would have been the same if Clinton had won, and only slightly variant if McCain did.[incorrect]
or, of course, the military allow Chimpie to attack Iran [won't happen], or get Israel to do it for them [won't happen], and then the whole shebang of global civilisation will go down the crapper [that could be a good thing] faster than a vindaloo downed with a bottle of olive oil [correct. it will happen tonight too], with some ex-lax as dessert.[hahaha]
JC2
jimmykrongold.wordpress.com
-
JC2
25 July 2008 at 08:52 MarkBin:
That is a sign. Mahmoud knows I am ready to go. He named the missile testing a week or so ago 'The Great Prophet III'.
JC2
jimmykrongold.wordpress.com
-
JC2
25 July 2008 at 08:57 gnuneo:
beowulf: interesting, but frankly, as a western citizen, i am FAR more concerned about the creeping extreme Christianity in our nations, not Islam.
A: Hillsong Church will take over the entire world. www.hillsong.co.uk..
Compared to Christianity, Islam is a model of Liberalism - women are allowed to own property, to divorce, to have a say in political life, their word is allowed in courts of law, and they can vote.
A: I suggest you read Infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali (she is HOT) and then reconsider.
Islam is not occupying any other country with associated mass slaughter (and genocide is no longer a taboo word regarding the events in Iraq), the Christian Right are [correct].
Islam are not subverting our democratic structures by quiet hand-shake deals and hidden corruption - the Christian Right are.[correct. that is why Hillsong is going to take over the world. hillsong.co.uk]
please, PLEASE read this article if you are worried about the freedoms in our Liberal Democracies, and learn where the REAL threat is coming from:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/9178374/gods_sena...
Nice touch at the end there and a very good post overall. Well done, soldier.
JC2
-
JC2
25 July 2008 at 09:00 Gideon Polya I am in awe of you. I also respect the fact that you are happy to be completely open about who you are. You and I don't go for ridiculously irrelevant 'login' names, do we. We are not afraid. Not in the slightest. The only ones who have something to be afraid of with me are those you are not completely open and honest about their identities.
JC2
jimmykrongold.wordpress.com
ps. Hey Gideon, do you have a blog? I will put a link to it on my Facebook page (when it finally is re-enabled). If you don't have please start one. I need you.
-
JC2
25 July 2008 at 09:04 Completely and utterly. Beg to be oppressed by Ted. Allow him to take away FREE WILL. Become enslaved to Ted. Be exploited by Ted. Allow him to use your earthly body to give your soul a lifetime of pleasure that is truly out of this world.
JC2
-
nawawimohamad
25 July 2008 at 10:04 Mr. John Pilger is just keeping up with his good work. He is providing us with something to think about and not just believeing whatever is written or not written in the main stream media which are mostly onesided, biased, and unreliable conspirartory journalism.
Thank you John and I hope you will win more awards as one of the most distinguish journalists in the world.
Those who do not appreciate what you have written have all been brainwashed by the main stream media or maybe they do not have the faculty to think freely anymore.
-
MWHEROLD
25 July 2008 at 11:10 I do not need to "share my data" as it is posted publically in three huge data bases for all to peruse. The critique made above by one "Claddach" is entirely beside the point. Yes, a few instances of "double-counting" existed but these were immediately corrected when discovered. In fact, the charge of not sharingfdata is appropriately levelled at the Associated Press, the United Nations and Human Rights Watch who never publish diasggregated data which would allow reproducing the analysis.
Marc W. Herold
University of New Hampshire
-
JC2
25 July 2008 at 11:42 Thank you Marc.
JC2
-
MWHEROLD
25 July 2008 at 11:50 You're most welcome JC2. In today's Washington Post, we learn that HRW will soon proclain to the world that airstrikes in Afghanistan have killed 119 Afghan civilians during 2008. This is about one-third the accurate figure. As I report in the Afghan Victim Memorial Project data base, during January 1 - July 1, 2008, at least 260-332 innocent Afghans were slaughtered by US and NATO actions alone. HRW is keeping up its long-established tradition - which I have written about elsewhere - of reporting one-third of the truth as the whole truth. Recall the NATO bombing of Kosovo when HRW promulgated that ~500 civilians had died when numoerous other reputable sources put the figurew at 1,200-1,500.
Marc W. Herold
University of New Hampshire
-
JC2
25 July 2008 at 12:02 Nice. Pretty convincing act from them wasn't it. They even sucked in medialens. And that is really saying something. BETRAYAL
JC2
-
Beowulf
25 July 2008 at 14:15 Correction:
China has banned Iraq from Olympic games, not Iran.
Sorry for the misprint.
-
gnuneo
25 July 2008 at 18:08 JC2: i hope you are right about Obama - i suspect you are not. I would strongly prefer his preacher as President - now THERE is someone who really believes in social justice. Which is why he and people like him never get allowed anywhere near political power in the US.
-
michaelpetek
25 July 2008 at 18:57 You've never really forgiven the Thirteen Colonies for breaking away from the British Empire, have you John?
-
Sikia
25 July 2008 at 19:26 It's already came out that the Carter Administration, under the guidance of Brzezinski, now Obama's political promoter and security advisor, pre-emptively created the terrorist networks we are now fighting in order to lure Russia into Afghanistan. They destroyed a people's social justice movement and created this mess. Brzezinski admitted it himself in interview they lied to the American people and the world, and said he regrets nothing.
Seeing Europeans clamor over the latest prodigy of the man who's written extensively about how the US should maintain hegemony over Eurasia is a little disgusting. It was like when they rallied behind Bush after 911, doing America and themselves no favors. The minority or majority, you can never tell with the media blackouts "for our own good", who saw through Bush's charades to invade Iraq get no global voice. They can just watch helplessly while people gather around the next Imperialist, and make all our beds to sleep in. I just wish we could split the world between these kool aid drinkers, those that admit they want war, and those that want no part in it.
http://www.counterpunch.org/wright08232007.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html
-
arch_stanton
25 July 2008 at 19:44 So Obama is itching to make himself a war criminal? Groovy.
Escalating the war in Afghanistan and unilaterally expanding it into Pakistan is a GOOD IDEA. How much of a carbon footprint do ya'll think that'll make? Not to mention the death, devastation and horror that will result. And of course, eventually, the US Imperial World Tour will be coming to a neighborhood near you. So let's get busy--so much to destroy and so little time.
BTW--The idea that "our" forces give a rat's ass about Afghanistan's "collateral" casualties is a sick joke. As daily news reports amply demonstrate (so much so that even NATO has launched an "investigation").
And of course, there's this little gem:
"What really characterizes Western values? Self-delusion, hypocracy, double-standards, the desire to control the world, arrogance, racism, and most importantly our willingness to comitt acts of genocide over and over again, century after century."
Yeah. That's a project that has been pursued by the "west" for about 30 centuries with no end in sight except the extinction of the human race (and approximately 50% of other currently existent species on the planet). Which actually may not be such a bad thing. Biologically speaking, that is.
You peeps need to consider the words of an erstwhile member of the club regarding the military industrial complex and the endless war it is currently waging, because if you don't think you'll get sucked into it--you've got a mighty big surprise coming to you.
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
This world in arms is not spending money alone.
It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.
The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities.
It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals.
It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement.
We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of wheat.
We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people.
This is, I repeat, the best way of life to be found on the road the world has been taking.
This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron."
"The Chance for Peace"
by Dwight D. Eisenhower
April 16, 1953
-
freedomlover
25 July 2008 at 20:00 Thanks to Pilger and Prof. Marc for standing by the people of Afghanistan.
THE USA/NATO are committing war crimes in Afghanistan and the media keeps silence.
-
freedomlover
25 July 2008 at 20:02 YOU NEED TO VIEW THE FOLLOWING web site to know about war crimes of the US/NATO in Afghanistan:
-
tom mackinnon
26 July 2008 at 17:12 John Pilger is absolutely correct in whqat he says in this article. It is disgusting that Obama, despite wanting to wiothdraw US troops nfrom Iraq, inexplicably wants to not only continue but expand the murderous campaign of bombing Afghanistan. and there is an uncanny similarity with the religious zealot nature of Tony Blair and Obama ('God is on our side')
Tom MacKinnon, Putney, London.
-
JC2
26 July 2008 at 17:59 Ahhh, Tom MacKinnon from Putney, London, the difference is that this time God truly is on the side of the most powerful human in the world. You just wait and see, then come along for the ride of your life. You deserve it. You all deserve it. Well done. Well done humanity.
Here's to eternal peace, justice, respect, truth and love.
Yours,
Jesus Christ II
(aka Matthew J Costigan)
-
JC2
26 July 2008 at 18:03 I would cordially like to invite all those who have contributed to the comments page since 'Fabricate That Fear' to join me and Ana at Inspiral Lounge next Friday from 6pm. The lounge is on Camden High Street, right on the blessed Lock. Bring anyone you like but don't go crazy please. It isn't that big a place.
Matt
oh, and they make a great Pina Colada. hahahahahahahaha.
-
pugnax
27 July 2008 at 00:46 Cyber, the world is full of "crazy, dangerous critters", and we yanks have, alas, more than our share. But we are only marginally, and not consistently, worse than you Brits. After all, Mr. Blair was in office for a decade and under your parliamentary system he should have been more readily removeable than any of our eight-year maxers. If my family and I lived in the UK, I assume we would hold our noses and vote Lib Dem--and never really win.
-
nawawimohamad
28 July 2008 at 04:34 It’s like in the movies or Television drama series where CIA death squads are in operation to eliminate ‘enemies’ of the United States. In Afghanistan, this movie is being played in real time with real people being killed and at times entire villages razed by an angry mob called the CIA paramilitaries.
A United Nations investigator released a preliminary report citing widespread civilian deaths in Afghanistan, often at the hands of unaccountable units led by the CIA or other foreign intelligence agencies, including the Mossad – or Israel’s secret service.
The British Intel is also involved in the secret battle in which the target is mostly civilians who knows too much about the Taliban and Taliban close allies in villages and cities.
These ops – illegal according to the rules of wars – were condemned by Philip Alston who is the United Nations Special Rapporteur on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions Professor Philip Alston.
“My focus is on extrajudicial executions or what might be called unlawful killings. The principal actors whose conduct I have been examining include the Government, particularly the police, the international military forces and the anti-government elements, including the Taliban. The bottom line of my report is that there are many killings which are avoidable,” he said after delivering a devastating report that showed the CIA were killing civilians with impunity in Afghanistan.
-
mike
28 July 2008 at 05:32 vote nader 08' he'll have a good response plan on how to handle middle east u.s. occupation and hopefully compramise with the other western countries dipping their feet in the middle east. nader/gonzalez '08
-
mike
28 July 2008 at 05:33 nader 08
-
knave
28 July 2008 at 07:54 Nick cohen hates Obama and John does.
Is he doing something right ?
-
fairplay
28 July 2008 at 12:50 obama = same old story. plays the game like the rest of the puppets. you all now how it works. same people pulling the same strings.
bring back rod hull and emu. much better
-
victronix
28 July 2008 at 23:51 Thanks for this. It's more "get the terrorists" bs to rally the masses while pretending to be against war. Anyone doing anything real gets slammed with these attacks, anyone who dares speak out against endless war for profit. I'll be voting for Nader or McKinney, but really, it all feels like this country -- the US -- will ultimately get what it deserves, which is war until it collapses and implodes.
-
Douglas Chalmers
29 July 2008 at 01:01 John Pilger/ Mike Whitney: "bait-and-switch" Democrats, of whom Obama is the prince....."
In other words, NEOCONS! So, what does this really mean?
The "bait-and-switch" is also being played ad infinitum by the US Congress and Senate. Democrats are merely socialist Neocons. The main game has already been hijacked by the military-industrial complex (since 1945, actually).
Condoleeza Rice has been BO's handler since he first joined their Foreign Affairs Committee review board. Thus the international policies are effectively the same despite some seeming differences in domestic policies.
That means that the global agenda is being stage-managed from beyond the federal government although partly within it. Note that all of these people also pay their hypocritical respects to AIPAC and dutifully visit Israel (not Palestine) and bray their support for the Jews (not the Arabs).
Strangely, though, they are also playing "bait-and-switch" with Israel in order to pander to their own Christian Zionist fundamentalists at home. The reality is that leaders of AIPAC have been charged by the FBI with passing military and state secrets onto China and elsewhere.
Since 2005, it has been known that Israel has betrayed its trust with the USA although AIPAC still is ostensibly allowed access to the State department. Now, the USA wants Israel to fight the wars in the M.East that it knows are ultimately unwinnable. Like wise France's Sarkosy and Germany's Merkel as part of NATO.
Strange also how NATO, defunct cold war monster that is is, has had life breathed back into it recently. Never content to merely trade as equals, the Western world continues its very outdated mentality of wanting to oppress the Arabs and Persians (West Asia) and to wedge India (South Asia) and China (East Asia) and Russia.
This all flies in the face of global warming/climate change and the imperatives of financing massive infrastructure and renewable energy projects. Global co-operation is necessary but, instead, the Neocons want to create a new enriched uranium cartel to supply their allies' new nuclear reactors.
To do this, they must still be able to police the seas with their nuclear submarines and aircraft carrier attack groups - at least until space Earth-orbit weaponry is developed. No wonder that they need a Prince of Darkness to carry this on into the future......
-
fairplay
29 July 2008 at 08:58 douglas
great post
-
Afrasiab
29 July 2008 at 13:32 Jonny Mac - 'Unless "terrorism" is re-defined to include the military actions of Western armies, when, er, suddenly it is'.
There is no need to redefine terrorism to include the action of Western armies, an attack on a nation which has not threatened yours, has not attacked yours to steal it resources and change its leadership to a puppet Government is just as much terrorism as someone using a bomb in rucksack.
Blanket bombing is a deliberate attack on civilians, the US employs this as part of its military strategy.
Just because terrorism is commited by a military on the orders of a 'Democratic' Government does not make it acceptable or any less of a crime than if it was committed by Alqaida, IRA, or ETA.
-
gnuneo
29 July 2008 at 15:06 thank hermes for the internet, where else could we learn and share comments and opinions such as these?
the Murdocracy? LOL.
-
taghioff.info
30 July 2008 at 12:32 @blairsupporter
We face no great threat. Terrorism is not worse now than during the Northern Ireland crisis. Europe and America have a level of military dominance never before seen in history.
Weapons of Mass destruction are dangerous yes, but that is dealt with by respecting Non-proliferation treaties, by controlling the arms trade, by avoiding wars, by building economic alliances.
Bush and Blair managed to create a threat out of nowhere. Yes Islamic fundamentalism existed before the B boys, but it was never and will never be the threat that brings down western civilisation.
That is climate change, and the general natural resource crunch we are experiencing. Even the Pentagon agrees.
-
Bhatti
30 July 2008 at 19:15 Obama knows on which side his bread is buttered, so he will do as he's told by the controllers of US 'politics'.
-
john61
31 July 2008 at 02:10 Obama has to swim in a SEA of STINK otherwise knows as us imperalism. does anyone in his right mind think he's going to do anything but obey the forces who put them there?!?
We want to encourage people to comment on our content and to exchange views with other readers and hope this will be done on a courteous basis. However, if you encounter posts which are offensive please let us know by emailing comments@newstatesman.co.uk and we will take swift action where necessary.
