The Deep Dive podcast: Merkel and Macron

The New Statesman's Deep Dive Podcast.

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This week, co-hosts Ian Leslie and Stewart Wood discuss whether the tide is turning against anti-establishment politics in Europe? Together with Professor Anand Menon, Director of UK in a Changing Europe, they explore the politics of the "M&M axis" between Emmanuel Macron and Angela Merkel - and ask what this new relationship might mean for Brexit. Plus: Ian rants about how Labour appears to privilege policies over votes.

Quotes of the Week:

Anand on Macron’s pro-European campaign: “He’s a very traditional French Europhile. He sees Europe as France’s ‘destiny’ [...] The second thing was that the National Front really started to struggle over Europe towards the end of the campaign.”

Stewart on French nationalism: “Sarkozy told Gordon Brown, when I worked for him, that he asked someone like McKinsey what it would take to make French the lingua franca of the European Union – and they came back after six months and said ‘It’s too late. English has won.”

Anand on French integration in Europe: “One of the big differences between the French and us is that when any French President gives a press conference he’s got two flags behind him. Every single time without fail there’s a European flag and a French flag.”

Ian on the Labour campaign: “When you say this party is proposing that we spend loads of money on everything and nobody’s going to pay for it, the voters go ‘”don’t be ridiculous” – and they’re right to.”

Listen to this episode of The Deep Dive now: