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21 comments from readers

Avihu
28 January 2008 at 14:46

Written and published shortly before the latest events on the Gaza Egypt border, the article below is still very much relevant in trying to appreciate reality in this country:

What can Israel do? / By Benjamin Pogrund

Does anyone have an answer for the Israeli government's dilemma about the rockets from the Gaza Strip? Up to 40 a day fall on the southern part of the country. About 2,000 during last year.The Qassams are home-made and primitive, but are deadly. Mercifully, the death toll is still low. But there have been deaths and injuries and the town of Sderot is dying: its residents live in daily fear and many have fled. Kibbutzim in the area are also targets. Not only for rockets: last week a man working a potato field was shot and killed from across the border.

Israel rates among the most technology-savvy countries in the world. But it is unable to block the Qassams or to prevent the gradual growth in their power and range. They are creeping north and are already landing on the outskirts of the port town of Ashkelon.

Yielding to international and domestic protests, the government temporarily eased its blockade of the Gaza Strip. Although some of the protests are wild, with claims of "genocide", Gaza is clearly being driven into deep crisis with its 1.5 million people suffering from the restrictions on imports of fuel, food and medicines, and export of fruit.

Some rightwingers in Israel demand wholesale attack to wipe out swathes of houses with little regard for the numbers of people who will be killed. The Israeli Defence Force does not want to do that: it fears loss of its soldiers and is worried about the international consequences of many Gazan deaths.

The military response thus far is to assassinate leaders of the movements which fire rockets - Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Popular Resistance Committees - and to hit and kill those who are about to fire or have just fired rockets. The attacks reflect astonishing levels of intelligence-gathering. In the confines of Gaza, civilian deaths are inevitable, whatever the efforts to avoid them.

It is all horrible. Yet no government in the world can sit by idly while rockets rain on its people. It is impossible. Public anger is intense. The first duty of government is to protect its citizens - and if it fails to do so, it faces the rightful wrath of its electorate.

Palestinian suicide-bombings drove many or most Israelis to the right. The rockets are having the same damaging effects on Israeli public opinion in hardening opposition to ending the occupation of the West Bank and accepting a Palestinian state. Such a state would have Ben Gurion International Airport within easy rocket range, it is argued; and with Israel a mere 12 miles at its narrowest, from the Mediterranean Sea to the West Bank, the coastal cities would also be imperilled.

These dangers certainly exist, if the neighbour is an enemy. The obvious answer is peace. But how to achieve it?

Israeli leaders and the Palestinian Authority are attempting it. But Hamas and its partners are rejectionists. Hamas staged a coup against the Palestinian Authority last June and seized control of the Gaza Strip. Those firing the rockets not only don't want peace, but they are also committed to eliminating Israel. Go read the Hamas charter of 1988 with its naked hatred of Jews.

Under the pressures of the blockade and assassinations there are whispers that Hamas now wants a ceasefire, whether for a shorter or longer period. How much substance there is to this cannot be said. Is it merely a ploy to gain a breathing spell to bring in yet more explosives through the underground tunnels, which start on the Egyptian side of the border? Or can it be the first tentative step towards accepting the fact of Israel's existence, opening the way to the mutual recognition and working together which must come?

Meanwhile, the bottom line remains for Israel: how do you make peace with someone who not only refuses to talk to you, but actually wants to kill you?

Without any answer to that question, and without any means of halting the rockets, will someone please tell the Israeli government what to do today about the Qassams?

IrritatedofTonbridge
28 January 2008 at 15:48

Random slaughter of civilians because of the rockets reminds me of what ineffective teachers used to do at school - punish the whole class for the trangressions of a minority. I think the rockets are unjustified because they randomly target civilians but it does Israel no good to turn the civilian population into a bunch of militants. Why don't you wake up Avihu and stop blindly defending your country's disgusting policies? As someone said this is not a case of four legs good, two legs bad.

Avihu
28 January 2008 at 16:05

"Random slaughter of civilians" sounds "wonderfult" to the emotionally charged, but may I ask for a factual and rational interpretation of reality? The truth is that this statement is completely removed from reality, but it is very much rooted in the realm of propagnda!

Good night.

Robert Powell
28 January 2008 at 16:29

Ha, ha, ha. He's back and he's accusing everyone else of doing what he does. The ultimate in cack-handed propagandists. It's Avihu madman Nadav. Cuckoo! Did you escape the nurses?

IrritatedofTonbridge
28 January 2008 at 16:34

It's a little hard not to get emotionally charged about civilians being killed - well unless you regard the victims as subhuman like you do the Palestinians. Every life is sacred Avihu - and I don't mean by a ratio of 10 to one or whatever the figure the IDF have reached to exact revenge.

mazaluk
28 January 2008 at 16:59

THE SITUATION in Gaza (Gaza from behind the blockade, NS28/01/2008) did not develop overnight. It is the consequence of many choices, repeatedly the wrong choices, made by the Hamas, to adopt terrorism and violence over peace and negotiations with Israel.

Israel disengaged from Gaza in the summer of 2005, with the hopes that the Palestinians would start true nation-building and create a new horizon for peace in the region.

Rather than choosing to build and renew, and engaging in dialogue and reconciliation to advance the two-state vision, Hamas has chosen the way of violence, firing more than 250 rockets and mortars a month on Israel. I wonder what the British reaction to such a barrage from a neighbor would be.

Israel has no interest in the creation of a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, and it is not imposing collective punishment on the population. Hamas makes the choice of how to allocate the power it receives, cynically putting its own population in harm's way in order to continue to fuel its rockets.

When more than 100 rockets were fired on Israeli citizens in one day, no condemnations of Hamas were heard, even though this was a clear condemnation of international law.

Criticizing Israel for trying to stop the daily attacks on our civilians is not helpful to the attempts by Israel and moderate Palestinians to achieve a just solution to the conflict and to bring peace and security to the Middle East.

IrritatedofTonbridge
28 January 2008 at 17:14

As I say every life is sacred - a point you'd rather not address. Trying to stop the attacks by slaughtering people unconnected with them is not tackling security issue - rather it's making one.

Cybertiger
28 January 2008 at 20:31

@mazaluk

"THE SITUATION in Gaza (Gaza from behind the blockade, NS28/01/2008) did not develop overnight. It is the consequence of many choices, repeatedly the wrong choices, made by the Hamas, to adopt terrorism and violence over peace and negotiations with Israel .... etc, etc ..."

THE SITUATION is that this is more vile, disingenuous bilge from yet another sickening apologist for the failed Zionist project.

Germar Graf
29 January 2008 at 09:31

God Bless IDF soldiers Avichai Sharon and Noam Chayut for speaking out against the atrocity of Israeli occupation. "99 percent of what we did [as IDF "soldiers" was destroy property, destroy people's lives." A fact they are not proud of, to say the least!!!

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m40547&hd=&size=1&l=e

Username
29 January 2008 at 10:12

I find the comment 'I wonder what the British reaction to such a barrage from a neighbor would be.' is disingenuous.

Are you not familiar with the IRA and the repeated murders and bombings of army and government personnel? A Prime Minister was nearly killed by a hotel bombing. Later more progressive thinking bought about the Good Friday Agreement.

The IRA terror gang (and the UDF et al) and the UK were seriously comitted to their goals but diplomacy with some very ugly people (on all sides) won the day.

The Israeli's can't kill all 1.5million Gazan's and the more you kill the more terrorists there will be anyway.

I believe Israel needs to realise that the militants aren't going to give in and Gaza isn't going away and as the superior power and superior economy should lead the way in new thinking. What that is I leave to you.

Win/win thinking is required on both sides.

Avihu
29 January 2008 at 13:37

Indeed, Username, we need a win-win aproach to the Arab Israeli conflict, one that would benefit Arab as well as Jew, Israel as well as its Arab neighbors. One follows:

The latest developments on the Gaza Egyptian border illustrate the impossibility of setting up an independent Palestinian state, hence the necessity to have Egypt assume control over the Gaza Strip while incorporating it and its residents. And of course, simultaneously, it should be assumed that any future peaceful accommodation in the West Bank will have to include Jordanian assumption of sovereignty in most of the West Bank.

When reading UNSC Resolution 242, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council... which is the basis for all peace agreements between Israel and its Arab neighbors it becomes very obvious that the solution described above is well built into that Resolution and wisely so.

The West Bank and the Gaza Strip, even under the best of circumstances could not provide for a viable state economy. Israel, in addition, under any accommodation with the Arabs will have to retain certain parts of the West Bank for security reasons. The West Bank of course is not connected physically to the Gaza Strip, and when the Strip was taken over by the Hamas in June of last year it was further separated from it, politically this time. Also, historically, economically, socially and even religiously the Gaza Strip is more related to Egypt than to the West Bank. Hence the integration of the Gaza Strip into Egypt is the natural thing that should have taken place. It should have happened back in 1979 when Israel signed the peace agreement with Egypt, but it is better now than never.

A successful integration of the Strip with Egypt however will not come about unless Egypt realizes the positive potential in doing so and unless Arab countries and the international community, including Israel, lend their shoulders to such an undertaking. A large portion of the Gazans can and should be resettled in the Sinai Peninsula, mostly in its northern part, and with the right package of economic, financial and consulting incentives begin to develop the agricultural, fishing, industrial and tourism potential of the region. Note, the whole of the Sinai Peninsula is three times the size of the state of Israel. Through the use of technologies to produce high quality water and to develop very profitable desert agriculture, technologies developed in Israel during the past several decades, the Sinai-Gaza region can become a very successful project that will dry out the poverty of the Gaza Strip and with it the source of political and religious unrest and subversive activity that could affect adversely not only Egypt but other Arab states in the region.

Will Egypt which had controlled the Gaza Strip until 1967, will Israel, will the Arabs, will the world community be wise enough and imaginary enough to pursue this rout towards peace in the region? I certainly hope so, for the sake of the people of this country, Arab and Jew alike, and for the sake of an accommodation of peaceful co-existence between Israel and its Arab neighbors.

Omar Ibrahim
29 January 2008 at 15:40

The GAZA Breakout

Regardless how it evolves and how settles down; whether the barricade is rebuilt by Egypt and/or by Israel or Israel redeploys its forces and political options, the Gaza breakout from the Israeli imposed siege of encirclement and sanctions is a turning point in the Palestinian/ Israeli conflict.

For one thing Israel cannot simply starve1.5 million Palestinians under the watchful eyes of the world nor, particularly, the eyes of Arab masses, no mater what their ruling regimes would favour , threaten or promise.

For another the Palestinians will go on doing the “unthinkable”, the unforeseen, the unplanned for and the unexpected.

Another, future, Gaza breakout towards Egypt’s recently liberated Sinai, if , say, reenacted in coordination with the Hamas brethren in Egypt , would destabilize Egypt and hurl the whole Egyptian situation beyond any recognizable set up .

The reenacting of the breakout from, say, the West Bank towards Jordan or, the more feasible, break IN into the West bank from Jordan or from Lebanon into northern Palestine will lay the grounds for a totally new ball game.

In all cases the Palestinian Authority will not be able to watch passively the action nor its inevitable reactions

by both Israel and/or the concerned ruling Arab regimes.

The Gaza breakout, if nothing else, is a tremendous psychological breakthrough of unpredictable direct immediate consequences and longer range repercussions

mazaluk
29 January 2008 at 16:58

The collapse of the border wall and opening of passage points between the Gaza Strip and Egyptian Rafah is a rather good development for Israel.

After all, explosives and other types of weapons were brought into the Strip even before, but now it is clear to everyone that Israel is no longer responsible for the fate of Gaza residents. Finally, the Egyptians will be forced to assume responsibility, just like the Jordanians, who have been preventing smuggling attempts all along their border with Israel which is hundreds of kilometers long.

From now on, the Egyptians will be forced to stop playing their double game: On the one hand, they have been giving a free hand to smuggling, which is the fuel that stimulates terrorism, whilst on the other hand they demand that Israel refrain from responding to rocket and mortar attacks on the Jewish state’s territory and to express bogus concern for the suffering of Gaza residents.

Now everything is clear: This is your border, it is your duty to prevent smuggling, and if you have any ideas in the humanitarian arena – please implement them yourselves.

It is no wonder that the Egyptians have been confused in the last few days. Suddenly they realise that the terror they fueled, which was a flourishing export sector from the Sinai to Gaza, may suddenly become an import item as well. And this may affect their stability.

The ties between terrorists in the Strip and militant opposition elements in Egypt are an existing fact. Terrorism within Egypt would hurt investments and tourism and threaten the regime in Cairo.

Sometimes, justice does prevail. This is what the Egyptians are learning now. Their desire to allow terror to go on in Israel while quietly enjoy the sight of Jewish blood being spilled may now come back to haunt them; because those who go to sleep with terrorists should not be surprised to wake up to terror attacks.

Madav Katz
29 January 2008 at 17:03

I think it's clear that no Palestinian has ever suffered at Israeli hands. They are self-harmers. Greeting from Ersatz Israel.

Greg Bacon
29 January 2008 at 19:21

".. will someone please tell the Israeli government what to do today about the Qassams?"

Yeah, tell the Shin Bet to stop launching their Israeli made Qassams at the Israelis.

If Israel succeeds in driving the indigenous Palestinians out of Gaza into the Sinai, it won't be long before some more Shin Bet launced Qassams wind up back in Israel, giving the Zionists the excuse they want: To launch an attack on the Sinai, for "security" purposes.

All the while, secretly scheming and planning to steal--AGAIN--Egypt's Sinai oil fields.

If Israel was truly interested in peace, they would have accepted HAMAS' offer of a cease-fire, but Israle flat out rejected this notion.

And yet, Israel likes to say it's a peaceful nation. The only peace Israel wants is: a "piece" of Jordan; a "piece" of Syria; a "piece" of Lebanon; a "piece" of Egypt; a "piece" of Iraq; a "piece" of Saudi Arabia and whatever "pieces" are left after Israel finishes it's genocidal extermination of the Palestinians.

winn
30 January 2008 at 04:15

Israel stole vast quantities of land and property from the Palestinians. The endless stream of trouble in Israel/Palestine ultimately stems from that utterly wrong act.

Israel has no business being there; it never did. That's the entire problem. The Palestinians won't accept Israel there - or enough of them won't. And they are right not to. If the trespassed upon don't resist, the criminal will be rewarded and justice in the world will decline.

So Israel resorts to extreme efforts to try to get away with its crime. It isn't getting resolution, though; rather it is merely adding to its massive 'rap sheet'.

The installation of Israel in Palestine was grotesquely wrong. That the

United Nations, Britain or France "gave" Palestine for a Jewish

homeland is abhorrent: it was not theirs to give. (Moreover, UN "approval" was

obtained through blackmail: UN member countries were threatened with

loss of trade or aid if they didn't vote for the partition, which conferred

on Jews 54% of Palestine's land though they owned only 7%.)

That ancient ancestors had that land is inadequate: there had been

centuries of discontinuation in possession by Jews, except of a scant

portion. That the Old Testament decreed it is inadequate: the Old

Testament is not the universal book of man. That the Jews were

victimized during World War II is inadequate: one victimization doesn't justify

another. And that they had no home of their own is inadequate: other

people should not be dispossessed of their homes in order to provide

them one.

The UN and imperialist powers, manipulated by Zionists, without even consulting the people living there, much less getting their permission, ‘gave’ it to outsiders! This is like a new neighborhood organization – that you didn’t even participate in – deciding to give your home to someone else! Deplorable, unacceptable.

At: www.al-bushra.org/israel/ben.htm:

from David Ben-Gurion's own mouth:

"One day, or rather night, in 1956 I sat up at his house [Ben-Gurion's]

till three in the morning. That night, a beautiful summer night, we had

a forthright discussion on the Arab problem. 'I don't understand your

optimism,' Ben-Gurion declared. 'Why should the Arabs make peace? If I

were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is

natural:

we have taken their country.”

Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God

is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago,

and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis,

Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault?”

They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?"

They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment

there is no chance. So it's simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a

powerful army. Our whole policy is there. Otherwise the Arabs will wipe

us out..." ? I'll be seventy years old soon. Well, Nahum [Goldmann], if

you asked me whether I shall die and be buried in a Jewish State I would

tell you Yes; in ten years, fifteen years, I believe there will still be a

Jewish State. But ask me whether my son Amos, who will be fifty at the

end of this year, has a chance of dying and being buried in a Jewish State,

and I would answer: fifty-fifty'."

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves. Politically we are the aggressors and they defend

themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come

here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them

their country."

Speech by David Ben-Gurion, 1938, quoted in Zionism

and the Palestinians by Simha Flapan, 1979

700,000 people were then terrorized off their land by Jewish terrorist

groups like Irgun. Several massacres of Palestinians occurred (see

www.palestineremembered.com) and were publicized widely to terrify more

people to leave.

Israel has no right to security, because its possessions are stolen. A thief is not entitled to protect stolen property from recovery by its owner.

There is only one way out now, and it is the same way out that saved

other colonizer states, including the United States. Israel must remove its

for-one-people(Jews)-particularly basis, and become a state for all people equally.

Avihu
30 January 2008 at 04:45

Winn, on what basis do you write that Israel "stole" vast quantities of land? Could you tell where, when and how? If you refer to territory taken as a result of a defensive war, be the war Israel's War of Independence 1947/49 or the Six-Day War 1967 there is nothing wrong with it as you probably know. So why use such an accusation of a state of a particular people and by so doing accusing that people of "steeling"?

Israel of course was established based on two principles: 1) UN Resolution, No. 181, 1947, to establish a Jewish state, and incidentally an Arab state, within Eretz Israel/Palestine. And, 2) The universally accepted right of the peoples to national self-determination and independence, Eretz Israel/Palestine of course being the historic home of the Jewish people, both of those members of our people residing in the Land at the time and those expelled from it in prior historic events.

The Arab Israel conflict, including the matters of territories presently controlled by Israel will be resolved based on UNSC Resolution 242 which has bee the basis for all peace talks to this day and for all peace agreements, including the one between Israel and Egypt in which the entire Sinai Peninsula was transferred to Egypt, including the peace agreement between Israel and Jordan, and of course including the Oslo Accords with the Palestinian Arabs based on which the Palestinian Authority was established.

If your intent is seriously to see an accommodation of peaceful co-existence between Arab and Jew, between Israel and its Arab neighbors I suggest you review carefully 242 and begin to promote among your friends the implementation of this resolution in its entirety. The sooner this is done the better it is for all.

Madav Katz
30 January 2008 at 12:53

That's right.

Robert Powell
30 January 2008 at 12:54

Is it?

mazaluk
30 January 2008 at 23:28

it is!

jednightingale
03 February 2008 at 06:55

One missing point about the ongoing Gaza crisis is that most of the so called "Palestinians" in Gaza are descendants of Egyptians that came to work in Palestine during the early days of the British Mandate (circa 1920s). With the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and Britain's control of Palestine, lots of workers migrated to Palestine to find work. Not a different situation of the migrant worker patterns occuring in Europe today. I guess that in another generation or two, the descendants of these migrant workers will call for the expulsion of all non-Muslim population with same vigor as the Gazza recidents today are calling for the ouster of Jews from Israel.

Jed Nightingale

NYC