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48 comments from readers

Tim in Dover
13 December 2007 at 15:14

Thank You!! Finally - an article in English that tells the truth about the Bolivian 'opposition' - They are rabid xenophobes with roots in Nazi Germany. The CIA gave Bolivia to Klaus Barbi fifty years ago and the state department has been floating the Santa Cruz business-elite-narco-mafia ever since. God bless Evo Morales and long live the indigenous people of Bolivia!!

Ian Crause
13 December 2007 at 16:09

I have lived there.This article is spot on.Thank God and keep it up.

Rafael
13 December 2007 at 16:15

It is true that Spaniards orchestrated the overthrow of many of the indigenous people in South America, but leading an indigenous movement fueled by revenge is not the way to make positive change. Morales is not leading a revolution for all indigenous peoples but for his Aymara brethren. Morales has little reservations regarding the use of violence against other indigenous groups and people of mixed blood as demonstrated by cartel-funded machete attacks in the coca growing regions. Chavez-controlled Morales is following a path where not only the rights of the people will suffer, but the people too will suffer.

checho
13 December 2007 at 16:25

Spot on? Please!

I agree 100% with Rafael.

Though indigenous people have been marginilized by the "white upper class", revenge is not teh way to go around it.

And certaily nont led by a man that hasn't even completed high school.

May I remind you of Victo Hugo Cardenas, the indigenous VicePresident during Goni's first mandate.

He was a highly educated indiginous man, with a full grasp on democracy and indigenous rights.

yet he didn't comand disruption or separation.

It is Evo, through his hatred towards the low-lands that is separating the country.

Ian Crause
13 December 2007 at 16:35

In fact, if the opposition get their wish and start a civil war during the course of the next year in order to break Bolivia up into a poor Andean state and a rich, white, US friendly, oil rich state, I would hope the Bolivian government have presence of mind to invite UN peacekeepers to protect the nation from the US trained mercenaries and racist white college boys now threatening it.let's hope they get the international community right at the centre of things.Cockroaches don't like bright light.

checho
13 December 2007 at 16:42

I'm not a fan of the US' tendency to medle in every country's business.

But for the sake of argument,... if we condem the US sending troops, shouldn't we do the same for Venezuela?

This is a matter of the Bolivian people that only they should resolve.

Autonomia does not equal independence. That is not what the lowlands are looking for. It is the government's mixed message to confuse the people in both regions. It is the goverment that is pushing for the separation so a civil war will break and thus have an "excuse" to request for foreign (i.e venezuelan) support

Ian Crause
13 December 2007 at 16:44

'It is Evo, through his hatred towards the low-lands that is separating the country'.

Camba bullshit.

As many Camba have said to me - privately, you understand, not in public as we are now - 'Evo is a nigger indian and we will never accept a nigger indian as our President because we are Europeans'.

Just answer me one thing, Rafael.

When General Antezana called for Morales to step down after 5 months in office, and the whole of Bolivia was gearing towards civil war, why, when he said he was travelling to France to talk about autonomy, did the government show that Ruben Costas, the prefect of Santa Cruz (Morales' main opponent in Bolivia), had infact had flown to the United States and has never spoken about it.

Why did he lie, Rafael?

Why has he not given his reason for flying to the US?

Do you think he is part of a CIA backed plot to destabilise Bolivia in order for the US to get cheap oil again, Rafael?

God help you all.

Ian Crause
13 December 2007 at 16:47

'And certaily nont led by a man that hasn't even completed high school.'

Say no more.

checho
13 December 2007 at 16:50

Do don't think higher education is needed to govern a nation??

checho
13 December 2007 at 16:53

So Ruben Costas cannot ask for US help, but Evo and his people can ask Chavez for help?

I don't agree with the US' hidden agenda for cheap oil...but I also don't agree with Chavez' .

where do you draw the line?

ortloffa
13 December 2007 at 16:57

Factual Errors:

1) Its gas not oil that Bolivia has in abundance.

2) Santa Cruz only has 10% of Bolivia's Gas reserves.

3) Petrobas (a Brazilian company is the main financier of the gas industry) not the US. (they only contract for some of the pipeline work)

4) More exports have been coming from the mines in the altiplano than from the gas. Its just that they dont tax the mines up there.

5) Evo won with 54% of the vote in his election a win certainly but hardly a large enough majority to ignore all opposition when making a new constitution.

Its not white against indian, Its altiplano indians who wish to impose their culture on an equally mixed lowland culture that is more pro-western and pro-free market.

checho
13 December 2007 at 17:00

Ian, I agree with you on the "private confession.

Many cambas DO feel that way.

but i want to think it is because of his "resume" that they (we) opposed him more so than the color of his skin.

Again, Victor Hugo Cardenas. No one opposed to him as vice president (i know you can argue he was not sitting on the "main" chair) but still a very important roll -- look at Cheney aka puppet master.

He was an indigenous man with high education that took forth indigenous reforms to better their people.

I think it is Evo's manner and diruptive methods (may i remind you of all the "bloqueos" he orchestrated back in his cocalero days) that people clash with.

Governing by Supreme Decrees? that's not democracy.

Ian Crause
13 December 2007 at 18:05

'Its not white against indian, Its altiplano indians who wish to impose their culture on an equally mixed lowland culture that is more pro-western and pro-free market.'

Bollocks.The whites are the ones with the money.quite a lot of foreigners, aswell.There are a few mixed race people with money but not nearly as many as white.Most mixed race people work as taxi drivers or turn their houses into cheap cafes to get by.The Andean indigenous mostly live in the south of the city.There are lots of workshops and tradesmen there, most of whom are Andean.

The lowland indigenous try to get by, sometimes, as relatives of mine did, by selling the fruit they were able to grow in their garden.Some fucking living.A cart of fruit twice a year.They live in what are one step removed from gerry-built mud huts.

What's your house like, ortloffa?You speak good english so you're privately educated.I never met a single state educated Bolivian who could string 2 words together in English.However, the more privileged the background, the better the English.So, I accept I don't know the difference between gas and oil.I guess you or a friend is a petrolero so you'd be an ideal choice to tell me.

What I do know is the difference between truth and lies.

As for the point made about Chavez vs US influence in Bolivia, check your own history.Then watch a film called The War On Democracy, then take a look at a book by former US diplomat William Blum, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Killing-Hope-Military-Interventions-...

According to some sources, the US already has psyops operatives in Bolivia, as Venezuela to manipulate opinion.

I've watched Unitel and I can believe this.

So only one factual error, then?

Ian Crause
13 December 2007 at 19:42

I've just heard there's to be something along the lines of a cabildo over the next day or so where presumably Costas is going to declare regional autonomy.

Good luck with your civil war.You will need it.

Ian Crause
13 December 2007 at 19:44

I've just heard that there's to be something along the lines of a cabildo over the next day or so where Costas is going to declare regional autonomy.

I hope all you rich boys realise the colla who were fighting your guns with palos will now have guns themselves.Good luck.

checho
13 December 2007 at 20:39

Autonomia was voted for through the referendum in 2006. Evo chose to ignore it.

This is your version of a democracy?

Taypi Pata
13 December 2007 at 20:56

What I have seen on Bolivian news makes me sick. The leaders of Santa Cruz, Pando and Sucre are rich, owners of huge swathes of Bolivian land... given away by School of the Americas trained dictators like Banzer. Tuto Quiroga, the leader of PODEMOS, the so-called opposition party, was VP under Banzer, is I understand a dual national USA/Bolivia and glares out at UNITEL cameras with glazed eyes... he has a real hang up probably sexual in nature, with Chavez. He eats, sleeps and breathes Chavez, is obsessed beyond any reasonable level. Watching UNITEL it seems apparent that he and PODEMOS in general get their plans directly from Goldberg, the US Ambassador, who strangely enough was hanging about Yugoslavia about the time that country started killing and raping each other.

These rich latifundistas and factory owners have shock troops, very reminescent of Hitler Youth, that go around beating people up who disagree with their fascist politics. These are groups of youth, mostly muscular, often wearing gold chains and shouting rascist epithets and doing insulting things to efigies of indigenous people. They spit on, and beat up government officials, constitutional, close off restaurants to indigenous people and campesinos, burn down hous

checho
13 December 2007 at 21:04

So, you agree that the state should tell you how many houses and how much property you should own? regardless of how hard you've worked?

you agree with eliminating private schools, instead of investing in education to bringing public school up to private level?

you agree with having your spending money alloted for and determined by the state?

what happend to FREEDOM?

checho
13 December 2007 at 21:05

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - WISTON CHURCHILL

Taypi Pata
13 December 2007 at 21:09

continued from last post

...burn down houses, throw grenades on the roof of nonfascist political leaders in some cases where their children are asleep.

Bolivia is awash in distorsions and lies presented by popular private TV channels, particularly UNITEL and RED UNO, owned by allies of Costas, Markovich and other Boplivian falangistas. They announce, for example, that govt. has killed a little girl during a peaceful demonstration, inciting everyone to loot and burn, beat up people..... a blatent lie since no little girl or anyone else was hurt, much less killed, except by Costas shock troops.

The new Bolivian constitutions is one of the most progressive in the world, it even details the rights of children. The media here lies about its contents, for example saying that private property and religion are prohibited. To the contrary they are strictly guarenteed.

Taypi Pata
13 December 2007 at 21:17

Checho said...

So, you agree that the state should tell you how many houses and how much property you should own? regardless of how hard you've worked? you agree with eliminating private schools, instead of investing in education to bringing public school up to private level?

Checho makes my point, he has obviously been completely fooled by US Embassy propoganda generated by UNITEL and RED UNO, and has never taken the time to read the new constituion which in two seperate articles guarentees rights to private property and leaving it to your kids. Nothing in the constitution says you cannot own three or five houses, it does prohibit latifundios, huge swaths of land given to their present landowneres by dictators and not serving any social or economic purpose. You must understand that much of Bolivias national debt originates in giveaways to these rich landowners, who incidently are often involved in the big cocaine trade.

Also no place in the constitution are they eleminating private schools, in fact, theior presence, along with Catholic and Evangelistic schools is guarenteed by thenew constitution. GUARENTEED.

Checo, I suggest you read the new constitution and listen to the people who wrote it before repeating the lies and distorsions you hear on UNITEL and RED UNO, and especially before you post the same lies.

JGAMA
13 December 2007 at 21:22

TAYPI PATA,,,,,,,,,, GO BACK TO EL CHAPARE BECAUSE THAT IS WERE YOU BELONG. QUIT MAKING NOISE IMBECIL...............

CHECHO...... I BACK YOU UP 100%

THAT NEW CONSTITUTION IS BULL............. MADE BY A BUNCH OF IGNORANTS........................ THANKS

Ian Crause
13 December 2007 at 21:27

Autonomia was voted for through the referendum in 2006. Evo chose to ignore it.

This is your version of a democracy?

What this actually is is democracy.So yes, this is my idea, as an englishman, of what democracy is.

Let me explain.

You had a general election and Evo Morales got 54% of the vote.I know one of you said that it's not enough that he won with an absoloute majority, he needed to take into account the political desires of those who lost.

He didn't.That is democracy.If you win, you implement your program.If you lose, try again next time, although, as you well know, Morales will keep on winning as he has the demographic of an Andean majority on his side.Tough shit.That's life.That's what happens in every other democratic country.

The referendum was held on the government's terms as they won the election.The majority of Bolivia's 9 departments needed to vote for it.They didn't, only Santa Cruz, Beni, Pando and if memory serves correct, Tarija.La Paz, Oruro, Potosi and Cochabamba voted against.

Is your version the same as that of Manfred Reyes Villa, who proposed, as Prefect of Cochabamba, that they rehold the referendum as he didn't agree with the 'no' vote?You know, the thing that started the fighting last year.

Is that your idea of democracy - vote the way I want or I won't accept it?Outrageous.That appears to be the Camba definition of democracy.

The vote against in Cochabamba was 75% - a mirror image of Santa Cruz, 'yes' vote.Hardly a close call.

So according to the rules laid down by the legitimately elected government, the answer was close -5 to 4 - but it was a no.

Now I think Morales made a huge and stupid mistake, and should have engaged the autonomistas and started negotiating from the off, but I guess he suspected - and events seem to have borne this out - that the autonomy idea, whilst it feels like you're fighting for your linda tierra against a communist dictator, is a really just a political ruse to keep the white business class (many of whom, as is common knowledge in Santa Cruz, made their initial fortunes running drugs from the cordillera to the Brazilian Pantanal in the 1980s) in political power.

No! al MAS, No! a las drogas, indeed.

I remember at least one occasion when he invited representatives of Santa Cruz to La Paz to discuss the idea and they refused to go.At first they kept saying that although they'd received an invitation, it wasn't 'formal', whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean.Maybe they think they're royalty.

Of course, the point wasn't to fight for autonomy in anything resembling a consensual way, it was to sow dischord.Which is the Bolivian opposition's tactic more or less in full.

And you know what Dante had to say about that, don't you?

Read Taypi Pata's post.That's about the measure of it, especially as regards Langley's finest, Goldberg.Another sower of dischord.

Ian Crause
13 December 2007 at 21:38

Oh, and Churchill was the greatest wartime leader but useless in peace.I suggest you read George Orwell.

Taypi Pata
13 December 2007 at 21:45

JGAMA post is typical of the tone and treatment given to people they disagree with. Sounds like one of Costas Hitler Youth Revival is on the internet.

The people who wrote the constitution were elected by people in each of their districts. So just because they wear a polera or a wool hat they are IGNORANT acording to JGAMA. Not to mentions the intellectuals who were there.

So I should go back to Chapare, sorry, maybe I will walk up the street to UMSA, which unlike the U Autonoma in Sucre isnt completely overrun by thugs who all Bolivians who have watched the news, even on UNITEL, will know tried to burn down the Theatro Mariscal Santa Cruz and tortured at least two constitutional assemblymen less than a month ago spoiut on old women wearing mantas, burned down the police stations, a¨nd tried to burn down the prison which btw contains sons and daughters . free to come and go. whose parents are there.

I will see if I can copy verbatim the constitution articles about property and education tommorow so readers can judge for themselves.

Ian Crause
13 December 2007 at 21:59

British people need to listen to this guy.

Taypi Pata
13 December 2007 at 22:42

I might also mention that NOT ONE of the Prefectos leading the separtist movement was elected with a majority vote. They have no elected legislative body to approve or disapprove of their actions, or the way they spend money.

In Pando,for example, the majority of mayors and city councils were elected to parties allied with MAS. The Perfecto owns a grand percentage of the land in Pando and refuses to release funds to the mayors not allied with his own fascist group. In Cochabamba, for another example, Perfecto Manfred Reyes Villa, who has an easily confirmed history of fascist/narco dealings (and has quite a bush of Hitleresque pubic hair over his upper lip), spends money on a fleet of $50,000 automobiles while the poor section of Cochabamba floods every year.

The famous Civic Committees AREN´T ELECTED AT ALL except in meetings of the rich landowners. Why does am unelected blatently rascist owner of 27,000 hectares of Santa Cruz land, as well as various factories get like 100 x TV time on the private TV channel news to anyone from the government, and 10000 x more TV time than anyone from the provinces and indigenous sector who constitute the majority? Duh, his group-fasicito owns the TV channels.

jimshultz
14 December 2007 at 02:10

As someone who has lived in and written from Bolivia for a decade, it is good to see some additional progressive analysis from abroad, but in the interest of credibility, The New Statesman might also add some attention to accuracy as well:

A few examples from this post:

“The right-wing majority in the upper house of congress, sabotaged the drafting but, in the absence of the opposition, this was adopted last month.”

The Bolivian Congress has nothing to do with drafting the new Constitution, a task assigned to an independently elected Constituent Assembly with one house, not two.

“Before Bolivians voted in 2005 the US ambassador in La Paz warned them that if they elected Morales they would lose Washington’s cash and goodwill. Last month the President had to warn the US envoy not to meddle again in Bolivia’s internal affairs.”

The incident involving the US Ambassador was in the run up to the 2002 elections, not 2005. A different US Ambassador in 2005 deliberately and smartly kept his opinion to himself. It is a third US envoy still that, in 2007, has been accused of meddling in Bolivia’s internal politics.

“He [Morales] must meanwhile keep a sharp eye on some US troops stationed in Bolivia.”

While the U.S. is capable of interfering here in al kinds of ways, mostly involving ending trade preferences and the like, and perhaps behind-the-scenes support for the opposition, no one with an intelligent view here thinks that the handful of U.S. troops in Bolivia (DEA agents, actually) are any kind of a direct threat.

Jim Shultz

The Democracy Center

Cochabamba, Bolivia

www.democracyctr.org

Rafael
14 December 2007 at 02:34

Cambodia, Rwanda, Darfur populated by “nobodies” that suffered and died under the notion of entitlement. “Your ancestor wronged my ancestor so you must relinquish your life/land/way of life.” “Your skin is this color so I am your superior.” It is this notion that has led nations to genocide. Emotions acted out violently deluded by empty promises of land and wealth best describes the followers of Evo Morales. Morales is wrong to believe he is leading merely because he helped to draft an unsupported constitution. He may have to use it to soak up the blood and tears of the innocents caught in the violent upheavals he seems to desire.

Unfortunately, few outside of Bolivia care for its people.

Outside nations and companies see Bolivia as a repository of natural resources waiting to be drained. Hugo Chavez sees Bolivia like some sort of socio-political experiment. But Bolivia’s worst enemy comes from within. Corruption, blind to race and politics, has infested and eroded the institutions designed to protect and educate Bolivians for decades. Bolivia’s future continues to succumb to sabotage by greed.

There is no solution for a forcibly united Bolivia built upon a foundation of fear and resentment. True freedom for a nation’s people must first be based upon an appreciation of all life.

Ian Crause
14 December 2007 at 15:09

So what you're saying is to vote for a progressive government who will do what, exactly?

Because it appears that either a government with a redistributionist , socialist program or a heavily indigenous slant are unacceptable.

Pehaps we can ask Santa Claus for help.I understand he's due to make a pan-american whistlestop tour shortly.

And while I acknowledge Jim Shultz is obviously an expert on Bolivian affairs, was the word 'perhaps' really necessary in that last sentence, Jim?:)

I'll also second what you say about the DEA guys stationed in Bolivia, as most of the ones I heard about were only a problem when coked up.

Taypi Pata
14 December 2007 at 17:34

Rafael posted, " Emotions acted out violently deluded by empty promises of land and wealth best describes the followers of Evo Morales. "

My response: First, the violence is almost exclusively coming from the supporters of the big land owners which I have described in length above. Why do you insist on ignoring it?

If you watch Unitel you may believe the opposite of the truth. I will give a recent example. Evo led a march from El Alto to Plaza Murillo, completely within bounds of the Non-Violent Action Handbook. The supporters of the Old Age Pension (Bono Dignidad) , which had been blocked by PODEMOS stayed in Plaza Murillo, perhaps about 5000 people, many dressed in clothes from their different regions. All of the national media TV was there. What all of the nationalk media showed were people sitting down on mantas in circles chewing coca and smoking cigarettes. The voice over on UNITEL talked about these sit down strikers as being "shock troops". PODEMOS is on the tube for three days claiming they were beat up, not allowed into the Senate etc.... no scratches, no bloody lips, just the same old slick hair and squeaky clean white shirts... more importantly none of the media came up with even a single clip of a PODEMOS Senador being attacked or refused entrance. Nada. Do you really think that if any PODEMOS senator had been beat up, spit upon, or bullied in anyway, UNITEL wouldn't have played the clip over and over for a week?

The big news is the "attacks" on the private media. For three days they showed one ten second clip of some sort of arguement in front of one of the private channels, trather spurious because the guy doing the kicking was dressed like, and looked like a Camba, and since there were no arrests or any interviews, we don´t know if it was a provocateur or just some drunk. The point is that all the private media could come up was one spurious ten second clip and a an avalanche of bullshit accusations. In the meantime UNITEL has completely ignored the death threats to the 12 assembly people in Chuquisaca, the recent grenade attack that luckily didn´t kill a little boy asleep below where the grenade exploded. More importantly, as you may or may not know, TVB (channel 7, the puiblic channel) and populist radio had been attacked for weeks in Sucre and the so-called 'Republic of Santa Cruz' by Costas Hitler Yoputh Revival. In fact TVB couldn´t cover Sucre violence Nov. 23-24 because they violence against them forced them to leave and the populist radio station was looted.

I also might suggest you read the new constitution which renounces war, promulgates non-violence in numerous sections, prohibits manufacture of arms and is strongly pacifist in nature.

Evo isn´t the one promotong violence, the big landowners, their Union Juviniles, PODEMOS are.

Ian Crause
14 December 2007 at 18:41

Well, I witnessed all this sort of thing and what this guy is saying is true.

All the threats and violence directed at anyone who's not actively against the government; the mobs running around attacking indigenous people in santa cruz; the outrageous media complicity in the situation, icluding the reporting of attacks against socialists as being carried out by 'patriots'.

It's just not been reported by the anglophone media for whatever reason.

'Socialism is the philosophy of failure, etc...'.

I'm guessing he's not going to renew his subscription to the leftwing magazine The New Statesman, then.

Clever, clever Camba.

Taypi Pata
14 December 2007 at 19:21

Ian,

Tomorow is the celebration of the new constitution in La Paz. IO´ll be able to give a first hand account since I plan to march and celebrate with the people from my province.

I wanted to note a few things that never get mentioned. I live in a small community in the provinces, a long bus ride from La Paz. We elected a campesino MASISTA as mayor and a MASISTA city council, about 95% (i.e. by consensus) of the vote. I have been in my community over 25 years and have a small flower farm.

1) RACISM

I am "white", middle class professional university prof. type living in a sea of Aimara speaking people and a few ex haciendotes who still live in the area. The racism all comes from the ex haciendotes who still consider the Aimara people to be stupid, ignorant and incapable of doing anything except produce babies like rabbits (even though the haciendotes are even more rabbit like if you include rape of servent girls etc.) The sea of Aimara people have always been friendly, even elect me to offices in the sindicates and FEJUVE and so on. They really don´t give a damn that I am a white middle class University type and the amount of racism I feel is less than I did in a recent visit to the USA, where even though I am white, I speak with an accent.

2) I have seen more progress in our province in the past two years during MAS than I have seen in the 23 years previous to MAS. It used to be that the mayor, always from MNR or ADN (AKA PODFEMOS) took in all the money and somehow ended up with fancy houses in La Paz, a new truck etc, while nothing happened in the municipality. The past year we have a whole process designed to allow everyone from all the communities and small towns to decide how the budget should be spent. The POA and PDM (budget) are strictly controplled and questioned by antyone who comes to the frequent meetings. Wer also have things like garbage pickup (a radical concept, LOL), free medical for over 60, the Cuban doctors have cured dozens of semi-blind people, as well as done hearing campaigns, and supply free medicine to anyone who needs it regardless of age, color, social class or anything else, we have free school lunches (desayuno escolar), roads being repaired, micro-irrigation systems going in, production workshopes, school bonuses that pay for the school supplies (Juancito Pinto) or clothes or whatever a child needs (and I´ll kick ass anyone who says the Indians use the bonus for beer, thats bull). We have a new schools under construction... the list is unbelievable.

And this is after having been completely ignored for centuries.

Ian Crause
14 December 2007 at 20:17

Please post.I'm sure there'll be quite a few British people who'd like to read a first hand account of things.

What you say as a white person amongst indigenous rings very true for me as a gringo in Santa Cruz.For the white professionals who move in ex-pat circles and have white English speaking friends, they only see a 'car-window' version of Bolivia.

I lived out in the barrios and I have to tell you that the racism of the Camba working class towards me, the hostility and mocking ignorance, was constant.The idea that they love gringos is a fallacy.They hate everyone, not just colla!

By contrast, when I moved to Andean indigenous, but no less poor areas of the city, the people were not so much outwardly friendly as civilised and respectful.They looked at me as an outsider, but once engaged in conversation, and, especially as I hold liberal views, they opened up and were friendly, intelligent, and a damn sight more civilised than the white rich I had encountered.I have formed the opinion that even after 500 years of living like dogs, the Andeans have managed to protect a hell of a lot of their human decency.I find it amazing how much, in fact.

I'm honestly not one to engage in ethnic fantasies and what you might call post-imperial hand wringing, but these people are so much more civilised and rational - they're far less religious than the lowland whites, for example - that I have taken away with me an abiding admiration for them.

Oh, and according to El Deber, the official figure for child rape in Santa Cruz, a city of 1.5 million people, was 1 every 7 minutes.

A city in their own image, is it not?

Write to us all about what happens tomorrow, including what stunts channels like Unitel pull in their reportage.We need to hear about this stuff in the UK.

Of course it is Marinkovic and co.s worst nightmare that white Europeans see what they really are.Many will be repelled, so use what you've got.

Also tell me about what happens in Santa Cruz with the declaration of autonomy.There is sure to be a bit of violence against sundry 'traitors' or their property to celebrate once they've had a couple of beers.

Taypi Pata
16 December 2007 at 19:43

Hey Ian!

I was too tired yesterday to post.

I spent from 10 AM - 5 PM at Km 0 in Plaza Murillo. That is right in front of the balcony of the Presidential Palace. The bleachers in front of the cathedral were reserved for diplomatic corps and the top brass of the FFAA (Fuerzas Armadas). About 10 AM some municipal guys set up unreserved bleachers in front of the Legislative Palace, mostly filled up with cholitas and older people. Plaza Murillo, at most was only half full throughout the day. The march, which apparerntly snaked from El Alto, went on for 4 hours. Most of the provinces sent a representation, which, for those who don´t understand Andean ideas, means that each provincial syndicate unanimously elected a half dozen representatives to travel to La Paz for the celebration. Some sectors, particularly miners and the campesinos from around Lake Titicaca came out in mass, complete with their tarqiada music and dance. Most of the marchers were dressed in their ponchos, mantas etc. a very colorful celebration.

I circulated around sharing coca with people, yes even the famous poncho rojos.

Marchers from Tarija, Beni, Santa Cruz and Pando were heavily applauded and showered with affection by the crowd at Km 0.

There were various youth groups (Antifascist Youth, Progressive Youth, Oruro Youth etc.), university student unions, even the shoe shine children, cute little six year old helping to hold up the banner.

The first speech of the day was by the President of the Committee of Indigengous People of the Oriente, someone from the Beni, followed by a Consitutional Assemblyman from Santa Cruz, then compañera La zarte, then Alvero and then Evo.

After Evo´s speech a number of groups were invited into the Presidential Palace to dance. What I noticed is that the Presidential Palace, for all the thousands of people up front, was guarded by two unarmed ceremonial soldiers (the ones with the red suits). Now just imagine having a big march like that right on the front steps of Buckingham Palace (or whatever, not really up on English stuff), and having people go in and out to dance, and only having two unarmed guards at the door.

Later in the evening fifteen different music groups played in Plaza Murillo, ranging from indigenous through folklorico through hip-hop and the Plaza brimmed over.

I think though that many of us felt sad later in the evening because of the parallel "cabildo" being televised on all TV channels except TVB (who switched back and forth between P. Murillo and S.C.) with Costas, Markinovich et al with their typical speeches brimming over with hate (the call us monkeys, animals etc. without even a blink of the eye lid and the crowd cheers). The crowd in Santa Cruz was emmense, with tens of thousends of green and white flags, fireworks... on the History Channel, running at the same time, and I am sure quite coincidentally, they were showing the Nazi ascension to power and its scary the similarity and speeches and the energy of the crowd in the early 30´s to that in Santa Cruz.

I am hoping to get a web version of their new Autonomy Statuate, which essentially declares >Santa Cruz independent, requires visas and govt. control of migration, management of all natural resourses, undoes land reform dating from 1952 (that is to say gives the new self-appointed governor RubenmCostas the power to do land and environment management and doesn´t recognize INRA titles) and a half a dozen other things that usurp both the present and new constitution.

A bomb went off in the Justice Palace in Santa Cruz yesterday and the Union Juvenil Cruceño invaded a village called Santa Rosa and beat up everyone they could find, over 50 in the hospital, one in critical condition. This I caught on the radio so was unable to see exactly what went on, and the telephone correspondent was practically inaudible. My daughter´s mother´s boy friend tried, unsucessfully, to get a scheduled bus out to a village in Pacajes and the rumor is that Santa Cruz will be cutting the fuel valves to the Andes.

Doria Medina, leader of the moderate right wing opposition was on El Alto TV discussing his parties objections to the new constitution, mostly a bunch of semantic detail actually... and this morning I found that the semantic details he mentioned had been repaired. Also the editorial committee got rid of homosexual marriage and abortion rights which were not stated but implied grammatically in the last draft before the official. The new grammar says a marriage "between a man and woman" but doesn´t deny that other persons can get married...well, at least it could be argued as such. They deleted the clause that would have clearly permitted abortion, so as far as I can see so far, the subject isn´t even touched.

What is clear is that the A.C. (Constituent Assembly) made every attempt to accomodate all the REAL objections that they heard from all sides, even the evangelical right wing (National Conciounse Party) and the moderate right National Unity Party. PODEMOS, for the most part, is made up of the old fascist power structure with families that have more land per family than one or two provinces have in the Andes who are using blatent rascism to stir early 30´s gatherings reminescent of the Nazis. On the other hand, the people from the Oriente and Tarija were cheered In Plaza Murillo, and even some people had tears in their eyes that some, maybe most of our brothers and sisters there still love us and don´t think we are "monkeys" and "llamas" and "animals" and "ignorant redskins"... terminology used in the speeches in Santa Cruz and Pando last night.

Taypi Pata
16 December 2007 at 20:14

"...they only see a 'car-window' version of Bolivia. "

That seems evident from many of the posts on Schultz´s website. My older daughter, who was born here 18 years ago, understands things much better than I do after 30 years because I came in with a whole load hardwired thought processes. I find that except for the other ancient immigrants, I can barely find any common ground with the short-term immigrants who quite frankly, usually don't have a clue of what is going on with Andean people.

"I lived out in the barrios and I have to tell you that the racism of the Camba working class towards me, the hostility and mocking ignorance, was constant."

I am sorry to hear that about the working class. I haven´t been down there in 20 years or so and at that time hung out with U. students in my field of specialty so generally had a pretty good time. Never made it out to the barrios. I do remember though riding the roof of the train between Yacuiba and S.C. getting seriously hassled by some of the youth on the train.

" the official figure for child rape in Santa Cruz..."

Could you confirm this figure for me, sourcewise? Maybe thats the reason they are so against the constitution since it guareentees a non-violent environment to little girls and boys.

"Of course it is Marinkovic and co.s worst nightmare that white Europeans see what they really are."

I was discussing this last night with a friend. It seems that to make their new independent Santa Cruz work they need to not only be able to cut the gas and hidrocarbon valves off and take over the fields, but also have someone to sell gas to... like Brasil, Argentina or Chile (Plan Condor for the dismemberment of Bolivia, created by Pinochet shows southern Potosi as part of the "Camba Nation" and this shows up in their commentary from time to time). I know nothing about international diplomacy, but my guess is the only local country who would deal with the new Republic of Santa Cruz would be Brasil through Petrobras, In order to do that the R of SC would have to create enough violence to create an international crisis with UN "Peacekeepers" and US troops.

Now that they have their Autonomy Law, written by big landowners and promulgated through virulent racism, they, in less than 24 hours, bomb the Justice Palace and beat up and send to the hospital 50 plus villagers.

Tear gas police response in Sucre Nov. 23-24 was inneffective, the police got run out of town and all their installations and motor pool burned. Two people were shot by snipers with 22 caliber weapons and dressed in civilian clothes. Blamed on the government, but one has to be pretty stupid to believe that. If this continues, and it will, what choice does the Bolivian government have but to go in with the FFAA and protect people and govt. installations?

Taypi Pata
16 December 2007 at 20:16

Anyone who wishes to use my comments in any media may do so.

Ian Crause
17 December 2007 at 20:31

The article about child rape was in the newspaper El Deber about a year or so back.Having said that, everyone - including Masistas - had told me that this sort of sexual abuse and male chauvinism (and all that falls inbetween) was endemic across all Bolivian communities, indeed across most of Latin America so I think it was unfair in hindsight to mention it.

That aside, it looks like stage one of the Pentagon's plan is complete: find an opportune moment for the opposition to declare autonomy (they had to do it now because the govt.s autonomies don't allow them to arm up as this would obviously create the potential for violent conflict...hmm) and then stage two begins, the violent intimidation of traitors, a la 30s Germany, much as you have just described.

I fear it is inevitable that there will be violent conflict in Bolivia because chaos is easier to create than calm is to maintain, especially with a propaganda machine behind the opposition that would make Leni Riefenstahl's jaw drop, and I spent 2 years watching the opposition decide that as they no longer had power, they were going to destroy the country and 'take their ball away' as it were.

Except it's not actually their ball, is it?

There was a British TV documentary for a show called Unreported World last year.The reporter travelled across Bolivia and finished in Santa Cruz where 2 incidents of note took place.The first was that, whilst interviewing Masistas who'd been attacked in their village outside of the city, a group of people supposedly representing the Comite Civico burst in and told them they didn't have permission to speak to the socialists.The journalists protested but the socialists were too scared to continue.The interview ended.

The other notable moment was when the reporter asked Marinkovic in an interview what would happen if he doesn't get everything he wants.

He just laughed and refused to answer.

I doubt we'll see him on the barricades, despite the fact that he's allegedly made a public request for Uzis and ammunition!!?They'll leave that to the penniless Camba taxistas and guaranie, assuming they still have them on board.

It's very funny to come up against the Camba trying to fight their corner in the international press, isn't it?I think Marinkovic actually called for a PR campaign a while back, and maybe they're just responding to the call like good Hitler Youth.

But it's telling, is it not, that when confronted with basic facts, such as an elected government having the right to rule, or the weight of evidence about the constant violence used by these people who consider themselves both warriors and victims - they're neither - It's interesting how quickly their justifications collapse.Their arguments are built almost totally on lies and fantasies.

I suspect I have been reported to the Camba Secret police and had my name recorded.I had a Bolivian skinhead come to check me out in London!He said he was a Masista, when I've since found out from one of his own relatives what I suspected at the time - he's a, well, I'd say fascista.He was operating undercover with the subtlety and elan you'd expect of the Camba's finest.

I'll check out to see if there's any news of that bomb going off.

At the risk of striking an ominous note, I think it has got to the point with Bolivia that the main campaign now will be to rally international opinion on both sides of the divide.It's beginning to look like 30s Spain, only this time the reformers don't have the Communists to betray them.

Ian Crause
17 December 2007 at 20:41

I'm looking in at the English language press on the internet and I can't find any mention of the people being attacked, but I know from my time in Bolivia that many things happened like this and it was never reported.

Taypi Pata
18 December 2007 at 18:05

Hi again.... I was just doing some research based on work by Ben Dengl of the USAID-OTI grants to Bolivia as well as grants from National Endowment for Democracy (NED). This is real shocking material.

Here is 1 million of 14 million $, a sample of mostly grants to aid the prefectos of the media luna:

"During the third quarter, OTI approved a total of 24 projects for $913,000. Thirteen of the new projects, totaling $465,800, are being implemented in support of the decentralization process through strengthened departmental governments. One newly-approved set of activities in the departments of Pando, Tarija, Potosí and Santa Cruz will facilitate the transparent, efficient flow of information between the various offices and divisions within prefectures. Its goal is to improve communication between departmental governments and stakeholders at the local government and community levels. "

Source: http://www.usaid.gov/our_work/cross-cutting_programs/transit...

Check out the latest year 4.4 million dollars to the prefectos.

Taypi Pata
18 December 2007 at 18:14

Grants 2007.. they are mostly along these lines:

"During the second quarter, OTI approved 18 projects for $488,210. While the majority of the new grants funded prefecture support activities, OTI also expanded its efforts to provide information and training to CA delegates via CIEDAC. The CIEDAC grant financed 36 technical workshops for 5 CA commissions, including sessions on autonomy, new state institutions, and the organization and structure of state commissions. OTI support also covered the costs incurred for technical experts that presented at the workshops as well as CIEDAC's costs for organizing and facilitating the workshops."

Source: http://www.usaid.gov/our_work/cross-cutting_programs/transit...

Check out the grants yourselves on the USAID page, its pretty clear that about $14,000,000 has been spent by USAID subverting the Bolivian govt. and Constituent Assembly.

Taypi Pata
18 December 2007 at 18:39

Hey Ian, just caught your long post!

yesterdays news was quite good. For one thing, Evo has refused to fight violence with the armed forces. At least so far. This forces the Santa Cruz self-appointed commandante Ruben Costas to have to become so outrageously violent to get a possible reaction that the international community can´t be blind to where the violence is coming from. My own take is that Evo should remain with non-violent reponses to all sorts of aggrevation... the problem being that the people in Santa Cruz are publically begging for government protection as the violence goes on, essentially without being reported in the media beyond radio.

Second) the Presidents of Brasil and Chile were in La Paz for two days and signed all sort of agreements with Evo i.e. the Bolivian government and it seems clear that they will refuse to deal with Costas et al... even if they were to occupy the gas fields (which they will undoubtedly try and do) Brasil and Chile have already agreed not to pay them for gas, and I am sure Argentina is following the same lines. If the international community doesn´t recognize the Republic of Santa Cruz and won´t buy resources that the Bolivian people own from Santa Cruz or run their projects through them, that amounts to a strangulating blockade, I doubt Costas et all will survive for very long. I haven´t quite figured out how the USA will justify buying from and running projects through the Republic of Santa Cruz. Something for thought.

Also TVB (maybe also on other channels) has a very effective TV ad showing that the autonomy in the new constitution is almost exactly like what has been used as a rally cry for autonomy by the media luna. Not to mention autonomy is legal if the constitution is approved.

There was a public request by one of the Comite Civico of S.C. for arms and Cossio from Tarija just yesterday threatening to use arms if they aren´t allowed to peaceably take over the gas fields.

Yup, you generally have to be stupid to believe their lies and fantasies... or be paid. The problem is that the lies keep getting repeated over and over until they become "self-evident truthes". The US and UK press follow the program. Example, "They hate us because we are white." says some rancher Falangista and the LA Times splashes it on the first page like its the indigenous people who are the rascists, a blatent lie.

Don´t know about the Camba Secret Police. If they show up in my part of the Andes they´ll stick out like a sore thumb and just of think of the tricks we can play on them ;-)

Vis-a-vis international opinion Evo is being very adept at this point of time. I think the Bol govt. has it figured out that they need to stay as non-violent as possible in the face of escalating violence and opt for the ballot box at every turn.

Taypi Pata
18 December 2007 at 18:50

We can send the Camba Secret Police to "Pulgapampa" (Flea Place) about 20 kms by mule trail into an area infested by rattle snakes and monster biting flies looking for a big "indigenous weapons cache" that doesn´t exist and hope they have a great time trying to find it.

Oh we can have more fun sending the C.S.P. on important missions. ROTFLMHO

Taypi Pata
18 December 2007 at 19:12

http://abi.bo/index.php?i=noticias_texto_paleta&j=2007121721...

is a news article about what happened in Santa Rosa (and is still happening as of today). The people there are surrounded by club wielding Union Juvinile Crucenistas shouting racist taunts, and beating people, many of the injured are old people.

checho
20 December 2007 at 16:30

can someone explain to me why, if the goverment is not trying to limit private property, ARTICLE 398 of the new constitution will limit land ownership to 10,000 or 5,000 hec. (to be determined through a referendum).

under a democratic, non-communist, country, shouldn't you be allowed to owned all you can afford?

I agree that land should be worked and ppl shouldn't be enslaved.....

but why can't I own 30,000 and work them if I can??

the new text can be found here (page38 holds article 398) : http://www.eldeber.com.bo/2007/cpe%20final.pdf

Ian Crause
21 December 2007 at 20:41

Personally, I agree with what you say.I'm not a communist.Never will be.I'm not even anti-capitalist.I just believe in right and wrong, and people who have shown they are corrupt and tell a lot of lies, usually count as wrong to me.

I think the government see it not as an issue of ideology, but of justice, though they do get tied up in legal speak and technical terminology which must alienate a lot of people.

Remember though, the difference between Bolivia and Britain is that Bolivia has been asset stripped, like a bankrupt company, and those who were forced to watch this process, and who saw themselves and their descendants committed to eternal poverty have decided they're not going to tolerate it.I'm sure there are things wrong with the law, I don't know, and frankly it's not something I have a great aptitude for understanding, I freely admit, but the problem of huge amounts of land being sold to friends and families of corrupt and violent ex-politicians whilst many of the poorest live like animals is something that cannot be excused.Surely it is wong, however you look at it?

I particularly remember Marinkovic on the TV show 'Que No Me Pierda' with his lawyer present whilst a government minister showed an obviously forged land document his family held.I had to laugh.Someone else had added zeros onto the amount of land they owned!Branko kept quiet.His lawyer said it was a political witch-hunt, though he never actually denied any of the allegations with any counter-evidence.No way.It was obvious what had gone on.

That's the kind of the thing the opposition objects to, I think, although there's obviously myriad other aspects to the land reforms, and that's probably why the people with lots of land are worried - a lot of them probably obtained it through corrupt deals.

The problem with all this talk of democracia in eastern Bolivia is that you can't do democracy by faith.It doesn't happen.It has to be done by reason.And reason means facts, checked and scrutinised.One can't just threaten people if one disagrees with them.

There's a film on British TV by the Scottish Director Kevin MacDonald next Thursday.It features Bolivia, and I think Santa Cruz, and it's called 'My Enemy's Enemy'.

If you don't know what it's about, see if you can find something on the internet about it.

You undoubtedly see Santa Cruz innocently defending itself against savage and vengeful campesino invaders, but the campesinos see the history of the white rich and their child murdering Nazi friends.Check it out.I'm not exaggerating.You'll see.

Feliz navidad, amigos.:)

tsn
28 December 2007 at 09:06

Ian & Taypi - thanks for your posts. I've honestly never before read so long into the comments after an article.

To briefly chime in on the land redistribution angle:

It's great to have the freedom to have private property. The changes propose LIMITS to this, not the abolishment of it. This reflects a tension between the good and bad aspects of freedom: the freedom to horde wealth often entails power and domination over others.

Communism and capitalism seem to have that in common: they both tend, historically and actually if not theoretically as well, toward centralisations of power and wealth. I mean that's just evident from looking around us. And many of the negative consequences of both seem to stem from that fact. By imposing a reasonable limit on this, you alleviate the consequences.

In so doing, you help far more people raise their standard of living than would otherwise under neoliberal "freedom" and voodoo "trickle-down" economics that witnessed its biggest failure throughout Latin America in the 20th century. A basic utilitarian argument favors this: the sum of the positive outcome for the majority far outweighs the benfits to the few rich who have horded all the goods for themselves (though maybe create a few jobs, whenever they feel like it) - and as has been pointed out, often not in fair/legal/moral ways. An abstract appeal to notions of "freedom", the freedom to dominate in this case, stacks up pretty weak against this argument. And that's why it will be defeated at the polls by those who will benefit from the policy in question.

This brings us to the other angle someone mentioned: if I've "worked hard enough", why can't I own as much as I want. It is an interesting question to ask, about the legitimacy of methods employed for people to obtain their vast riches. The 'myth of meritocracy' is just that - a myth. People don't get or have what they deserve. So "worked hard enough" ends up being: hostile take overs to establish monopolies; a slave operated economy; supporting military coups to overthrow democratically elected governments and accepting your material reward; price fixing/gauging; etc...People like Alan Greenspan will have you believe this never goes on, that the corporate/business/financial elites are a noble, worthy, better class of men (they are mostly men). Even Paul Krugman (ostensibly a good man) of the New York Times was taking him to task on that one in the wake of the sub-prime mortgage crisis.

So if a people, a largely admirable people such as the Bolivians - if they, through democratic means, wish to alleviate this problem through sensible and democratic policies - what's the problem with that?

You can always say "ah, but there are people who don't want those changes". But to treat these people like an oppressed minority is the height of Orwellian doublethink. They have the majority say in public media. Their point of view gets relayed to the voters ad nauseum. The views of relatively destitute indians (for example) have no comparable mechanism to put their views forth. In such an environment, if their views flourish at the ballot, you've got to be impressed.

Thanks again for your posts!

A great book: David Harvey's "A Brief History of Neoliberalism". He discusses neoliberal political economy far better than I can.

checho
08 January 2008 at 14:55

happy new years all!

though i do agree with the latest post by tsn, sometimes the ability to own becomes fueled by greed and "questionable" ownership , I wonder; "where does it stop?"

so now the government "limits" the amount of land I (bolivians) can own.....--beacuse people obtained it questionalby, or because they are not being worked, or beacuse it enslaves their workers, what ever the argument is, it "appears" reasonable...

but where do we stop and will we see the line?

i know this might be exagerating a bit, but what if 10 years from now (or more) owning 3 computers per household is an excess in the eyes of the goverment? and they enact another "limit". Or having mare than 5 toamtoes a week? -- is this what cubans are going through? the government is "limiting" their property.

and though cuba is cleary a communist society...how about venezuela? where you are allowed to spend ONLY $4,000 (us dollars) a YEAR on travel. If I have the means, shouldn't i be allowed to travel and spend my money as I please? this is far beyond "questionable" aquisition of VAST lands...

though the argument could be made for "questionable" aquisition of money... people running succesfull legitimate businesses can afford way more than 4,000/yr on travel.

I'm affraid that by begining to "limit" the people -- even with a "valid" land argument -- people will buy into being limited and then where do we end up?

like venezuela?? like cuba??