Russia's veto over Kosovo

Published 16 August 2007

Observations on the Balkans

While Tories fret about Brussels, a more interesting question is who now decides EU policy - the nations of Europe, or the Kremlin?

Tony Blair leapt to being a world player when he lined up Bill Clinton with Europe to stop the butchery in Kosovo. But missiles, bombs and military presence are not enough. Kosovo is still without status or statehood, and now Russia is defying Europe and the United States by saying nyet to any move forward. Soon Gordon Brown and his Foreign Secretary, David Miliband, will have to decide whether to take a stand on Balkan policy, or let the Kremlin displace the EU in the region.

While Slovenia is already in the EU, and Croatia is on the road to accession, the real prize for peace and stability in the region remains Serbia. Belgrade is the capital of the Balkans - with a clever, educated, multilingual and post-industrial people ready, once Serbia is in the EU, to take the entire region to its long-overdue rendezvous with 21st-century modernity.

The historical links between Serbia and Kosovo are undisputed. But like with the English centuries-long suzerainty over Ireland, Serbs find it hard to admit that the time has come for Kosovo to follow Croatia and Slovenia in freeing itself from Belgrade's tutelage.

After the military intervention in 1999, Kosovo became a limbo land, under the control of the UN but still not fully independent from Serbia. This non-independence and non-recognition no longer makes sense. Kosovo has to be freed from Serbia precisely to allow Serbia to free itself to enter the EU and Nato. In private, all serious Serbian political leaders, other than ultra-nationalists and Milosevic leftovers, agree that Kosovo can never return to control by Belgrade. But in public, no one has the courage to say it is time to let Kosovo go.

The UN asked the former Finnish president Martti Ahtisaari to produce a plan allowing Kosovo conditional independence under EU supervision. The US and the EU accept this compromise, but the Russians have announced they will veto the plan at the UN. Ostensibly their justification is that both Pristina and Belgrade have to come to a deal. But since the Serbs will not accept even a conditionally independent Kosovo, the Russian position is dishonest. Moscow's ambition is to see the Balkanisation of Europe rather than the Europeanisation of the Balkans.

The endgame is clear. It is a Serbia, free of Kosovo, joining Croatia and Slovenia in an EU and Nato that can bring prosperity and security to the Balkans. The region's future should be decided by Europe, not Moscow. Slovenia takes over the EU presidency in January 2008. Europe supported that country's assertion of independence against Belgrade, and Kosovo deserves no less - with, or without, the permission of Russia.

Denis MacShane is Labour MP for Rotherham. As a Foreign Office minister he travelled frequently to the Balkans

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58 comments from readers

samsgaard
16 August 2007 at 11:20

The situation with Russia who has announced to vetoes in a UN Security Council vote on conditional Independence for KOSOVO, is taking away the tiniest hope for progress in the deadlock on KOSOVO's future status.

In my opinion, the only way forward is that all involved parties will have to agree in a supportive role with KOSOVO as an autonomy state under EU supervision and a defined referendum after five years.

I hope for the best, giving prosperity and future to both Kosovo Albanians and for Kosovo Serb’s, may God bless them.

T.S.

KOSOVO

MikePaz
16 August 2007 at 11:58

"The historical links between Serbia and Kosovo are undisputed. But like with the English centuries-long suzerainty over Ireland, Serbs find it hard to admit that the time has come for Kosovo to follow Croatia and Slovenia in freeing itself from Belgrade's tutelage."

I must say I am dismayed that this is your opinion. It is well known that rapid demographic shift over the last century, in which large numbers of Albanians immigrated into the majority Serb lands of Kosovo, which has resulted in the current situation. That and the fact that the fighting has lead to an exodus of Serbs, leaving only the Albanians. But the real story that has been swept under the carpet by the Western media is the fact that during World War 2, fascist Italian-controlled "Greater-Albania" exterminated more than 100,000 Serbs in the province, and settled 100,000 Albanians from Albania. In short, it is Europe which helped create this problem by strongly favouring the Albanians and slighting the Serbs, and they now want to solve this problem by, once again, strongly favoring the Albanians and slighting the Serbs. And you wonder why Serbia has more faith in Russia than the EU.

If succession on the grounds of demographic majority is granted, it sets a very dangerous precedent. Does any nation with a liberal immigration policy risk losing portions of their country? Could Mexico one day get part of Texas back? And what if your riding, Mr. MacShane, were to be overrun with an ethnic group which was militant about succession from the UK, and expressed this ambition by bombing police stations, as the KLA did during the 1990's. Would you support their right to independence and autonomy?

No. You'd tell them that when they immigrated to this country, they voluntarily became a part of it. If they no longer wish to be a part, they are more than welcome to leave. And if they engage in violence, the police and military will respond accordingly.

arvikel99
16 August 2007 at 13:19

Just a small correction on MikePaz comment above:

I am an Albanian from Kosovo. My family has lived here since 1878, when they were expelled from today's Southern Serbia (Nis - Prokuplje region). I agree with Mike Paz that some Kosovar Albanians have moved to Kosovo. The true fact is that they did not move from Albania, but from today's Serbia (you can check Newspapers in Serbia from early 20th century for proves).

Princip,uk
16 August 2007 at 13:45

Kosovo & Metohija is not an ethnic group nor has ever existed as a state. It is predominantly populated by ethnic-Albanians whose country borders the Serbian province. It is absurd to suggest that Kosovo & Metohija should be a state as to suggest that any county of England should now become a state because an ethnic minority had become a local majority. Moreover it is clear that his Hon. Dennis Macshane MP in all his visits to the regions has done little to learn of the contemporary importance to the democratic Serbian nation of its medieval heartland of Kosovo & Metohija. I seem to recall the UK upheld it's sovereignty over a very insubstantial parcel of land (Falklands) some 8,000 miles to the south of the UK just 25 years ago. Yet Serbia must relinquish it's sovereignty over its integral province because the province is now populated by the neighbouring Albanians?

In 1999 Blair stated that the illegal NATO war was for "humanitarian" reasons is Macshane now suggesting it was an illegal war of "partition". If so why did the UK and US formulate and agree on the valid UN SC resolution 1244 to end the conflict? The agreement upheld Serbia's sovereignty and it states;

"Reaffirming the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia"

The Republic of Serbia is the successor state to FR Yugoslavia. Thus the UK govt and one would assume its Ministers of Parliament have an obligation to maintain Serbia's sovereignty while it remains valid as it still does.

Is Machane now suggesting that the UK should rip up the very agreement that the UK assisted in formulating and signed and as such undermine the UN itself? This is going beyond just by-passing the UN but is actually tantamount to contempt of the very foundations upon which all member states sovereignty is guaranteed. I doubt very much that the UK Govt. would act so abruptly against the UN (& what the UK had formulated & agreed to only 8 years ago in the UN) especially in light of the disaster that has unfold on the last occasion where the UK was merely bypassing the UN!

It is worth noting that in the resolution itself, it states in regard to resolution, “self-governing” three times, “self-government” four times, “self-administration” once, “substantial autonomy” three times; whereas neither “self-determination” nor “independence” is mentioned in the document. Thus, the "end-game" that Macshane should allude to is Autonomy of teh Serbian province if he upheld the obligations that teh UK has in UN resolutions that it has formulated and agreed to.

Ivan
16 August 2007 at 14:49

Trying to argue with arguments of law and standards is worthless in this case since apparently when ever its not in the interests of UK and US, the others are to blame, and they are immediately labelled as bad guys. What Russia is doing is simply using its right of veto in saying that it disagrees with the politics of US and UK over the issue of Kosovo. UK and US would to the same, if Russia came up with a resolution that Kosovo must remain within Serbia.

As to whether Kosovo and Metojia should be independent or not, I would like to ask UK as to what are they doing in Northern Ireland then? Or if Kosovo is to be independent, would UK then follow its own principle and offer Scotland and Wales a referendum on their own independance?

John
16 August 2007 at 14:55

Apparently Mr. MikePazz does not know the whole history of Kosovo, or choose to ignore it. Kosovo Albanian's are ethnic habitants of Kosovo and descendant of Illyrians, and have lived in the area for millennia before Slavs arrived in the 7th century AD. It was Serbia with the help of Big Powers that took Kosovo in 1913 at the Conference of Peace held in Paris, and there were Serbians that in the beginning of 20th century applied genocide and drove hundred of thousands of Albanian's out of Kosovo into wilderness of Annadolli fields in Turkey and Albania

ment
16 August 2007 at 15:16

John...

Please spare me the parallels between the UK and Serbia. Scotland and Wales could both have referendums tomorrow and declare independence. Most of their populations CHOOSE to stay within the UK, but run their own local affairs. Both countries have MP-s in the British parliament.

When it comes to dealing with different ethnic groups Serbia is NOWHERE close to the UK. It never was.

leka_g@hotmail.com
16 August 2007 at 15:19

Regarding comments made by 'princip UK',

Resoultion 1244 page 4 paragraf e) refers to Rambouillet accords with regard to the final status, and the Accords chapter 8 part 3. clearly state

''.. a final settlement for Kosovo, on the basis of the will of the people..''

which is Independence, hence here are the legal grounds my friend for the people of Kosova to be free once in for all, and not have to deal with someone like yourself in the future.

(one would hope Europeans would be spared of the same torment based in deceipt and lies, if Sebia joins the EU one day)

ment
16 August 2007 at 15:37

A small correction:

My earlier comment was directed at Ivan's comment not John's.

As for Northern Ireland, a settlement was agreed by both the concerned parties. Both Britain and Ireland helped in that process as well.

Princip

The Falklands (Malvinas) is a disputed territory over which both Argentina and the UK claim sovereignty. However, the territory is inhabited by people that WANT to be part of the UK.

Argentina ignored that fact and tried to take it by force... and payed for that arrogance.... kind of like Serbia.

lazer
16 August 2007 at 15:57

POple get dissmayed when they dont know the truth in history of the Balkans as a whole and especially the Albanians in total. Serbian presence in Kosovo has been tainted with lies, especially in Communism, denying the historicall being of Albanians as descendants of the Illyrians in the area of Balkans.

Treaty of Versailles gave them control that they widely miused and murdering and ethnicaly cleansing Albanians.

Even now, Serbia insists on maintaining its legal sovereignty over the land and is offering the people wide autonomy, but not a share in governing Serbia as equal citizens.

It is too late for that. That is a stupid proposition that no Albanian will accept.

AussieSurf
16 August 2007 at 16:10

It is clear that Kosovo is Serbian land. I am from Australia and I know that Serbs will fight for their land regardless of UK and USA work on creation of an artificial country from the part of Serbian lands. UN resolution 1244 supports Serbian integrity of borders. UK and USA supported UN resolution #1244. Clinton and Blair have pushed the resolution as an assurance to Milosevic that he does not need to worry for Serbian integrity if he withdraw Serbian army from Kosovo. Such a politic just exposed Clinton and Blair weak nature. It looks like, West does not have other choice than to accept reality that is less painful that possible NATO war with Serbia.

venik4
16 August 2007 at 16:25

Kosovo is no more Albanian than California is Mexican. Just because in the past fifteen years Kosovo has been overrun by illegal Albanian immigrants, Kosovo did not become a part of Albania or an independent state.

It's funny that Americans are supporting Kosovo's independence-through-illegal-immigration. If the same principle is applied to the US in a decade or two, the country will lose sovereignty over most of its southern states.

The author writes: "Kosovo is still without status or statehood." Mr MacShane seems to be forgetting that Kosovo's statehood is as a part of Serbia and its status is clearly recognized by the UN, including the European Union and the US, as signatories of the UN resolution 1244.

John
16 August 2007 at 16:25

"It is clear that Kosovo is Serbian land"

AussieSurf; Have you ever read the history of Balkans?

Princip,uk
16 August 2007 at 16:29

Leka,

why did you not provide the sub-section of the UN SC resolution 1244 fully? Maybe because it is not as clear cut as you would like;

"(e) Facilitating a political process designed to determine Kosovo’s future status, taking into account the Rambouillet accords (S/1999/648);"

"taking into account "does not imply it must be literally accepted word for word. Such an ambiguous connection as you put forth holds very little water. Beyond that Rambouillet Accord has been reported as merely a pretext to war;

"If the Yugoslav government had signed the accord, they would have been relinquishing all claims to sovereignty over their own territory. The Berliner Zeitung noted, "This passage sounds like a surrender treaty following a war that was lost ... The fact that Yugoslavian President Milosevic did not want to sign such a paper is understandable."

The way in which the Yugoslav government was called upon to sign this diktat--delivered as an ultimatum--and the secretiveness regarding its content, suggest that the Rambouillet and Paris conferences were aimed at providing a pretext for war, not a political solution to the Kosovo conflict.

"An accord such as this could not be signed by any head of a sovereign state," commented the radical newspaper Taz, the first German paper to publish passages from the Accord itself. "

http://rrojasdatabank.info/agfrank/nato_kosovo/msg00091.html

However, there is no ambiguity regarding Serbia's continued sovereignty over its southern province. The negotiations & talks are on-going with regards status and until and as such as the replacement of UN SC resolution 1244 of a new UN SC resolution all UN member states especially those who formulated and agreed (including the US & UK) have an obligation to;

“the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia"

If no resolution replaces 1244 then 1244 remains valid and there is no two ways around the obligation that the US & UK or any other UN member state can recognise any illegal declaration of independence without being in breech of the UN charter and Helsinki Final act. Such an abrupt act goes far and beyond by-passing the UN as was done as recently as 2003 regarding the Iraq invasion and the consequences and repercussions could be far more destabilising to the sovereignty of all UN member states - I very much doubt the EU or any individual EU state would be so willing to tie the US line on this matter.

Surely it is better that all parties started to think out of the 'conflict' box and found a solution base upon compromise and respect for international law? Partitioning & dismembering the Sovereign, Democratic and European Republic of Serbia as suggested by his Hon. Macshane MP is clearly thinking in the box of getting back to the conflict as it was before 10th June 1999 when the UN resolution1244 was signed and agreed by the UK!

"Kosovo has to be freed from Serbia precisely to allow Serbia to free itself to enter the EU and NATO. "

Has any other EU member state been requested to give up its territorial integrity to join the EU or NATO? Is this a possible new clause for membership by prospective States? I wonder whether his Hon. Macshane MP will requesting the dismemberment and partition of Turkey to join the EU and to "free" itself from its Kurdish citizens?

AussieSurf
16 August 2007 at 16:30

Ment, there is no sense in your story that UK went to Focklands to fight Argentina because the inhabitants of Focklands (you forgot to mention that they are Argentinias, lol) want to be UK citizens. It is same as waging war against China because people that lives in Hong Kong wants to be part of UK. China is not an easy prey as Argentina.

John
16 August 2007 at 16:41

Vinik4

"Just because in the past fifteen years Kosovo has been overrun by illegal Albanian immigrants, Kosovo did not become a part of Albania or an independent state."

Are you kidding me. Before you put a comment it would be better reading some history. Read this http://lamar.colostate.edu/~grjan/kosovohistory.html

Princip,uk
16 August 2007 at 16:52

John, I think that Laser (clearly an Albanian) agrees with Aussie surf regarding Serbia's southern province;

"Even now, Serbia insists on maintaining its legal sovereignty over the land and is offering the people wide autonomy. "

Its funny how even ethnic-Albanians cannot cover up the legality of Serbia’s continued sovereignty over its province!

Yet it touches upon something Blair said some months ago regarding those who come to the UK from different backgrounds "conform to" and integrate and maybe that is what should be said of the ethnic Albanians in Serbia? Surely if a "European" solution is to be found it should be based upon pulling down borders and allowing free movement and respect of all minorities not creating artificial borders and mono-ethnic entities? Is it that the Russians are closer to the principles of the EU then some in the EU? The Russians are certainly closer to a European solution then the US who as we all know have become very selective in spreading democracy and freedom. I am starting to wonder what Macshane is meaning by ;

"Kosovo has to be freed from Serbia precisely to allow Serbia to free itself to enter the EU and NATO. "

On his basis Serbia should drop its province and as such it would join the EU but what then does he imply would happen to the province itself? Would it be excluded to ? or would it be allowed in? If it was allowed in then why the need to create artificial temporary borders? This clearly makes little sense.

John
16 August 2007 at 17:12

Princip

"If it was allowed in then why the need to create artificial temporary borders? This clearly makes little sense."

Clearly Princip it looks like you also need to deepen your understanding of the history of Kosovo, and represials of Serbs over Albanians since 1912, than it will make a lot of sense to you (unles you are a Serb). Serbs have proven in different occasions (1912, 1918, 1989, 1999) that they will resort to ethnic cleansing, force, and genocide; that is why the Western Powers should let the Kosovo people decide for their future, and put an end to the unjustice started in 1912 by granting Kosovo to Serbia.

lazer
16 August 2007 at 17:19

Kosova will become INDEPENDENT thx to UK, USA and major countries of EU. For the rest and Russia, WHO CARES!!!

All you IDIOTS can post and try to convince other non-serbs to think otherwise, we all know what the serbian regime is all about.

Its come to an end, INDEPENDENCE is IMMINENT.

Princip, put on your freaking seat-belt as the air bag will cover you when you hear a big Ben

lazer
16 August 2007 at 17:22

Pricip, those Hornets did a good job in Bosnia and Kosovo, right.

Ask your buddies who were running like chickens when they got clustered with ....

ilir2
16 August 2007 at 17:44

Thank good I say we Albanians , Kosovar's are with US and EU and not with Russia and Putin, and that's the all story.

Thank good somebody trust's us and that;s becuase some about 5000 thousand Albanian's from Kosovo and around are working for B&R or other US, UK or western countries contractors in Iraq, Kuwait, Afhganistan, Dubai, Qatar, Kosovo, Macedonia, etc

And thanks good we have thrown communism before all in ex Yugoslavia.

So ciao From Pristina, Ilir

ilir2
16 August 2007 at 17:50

I have meant 5000 or 5 thousand, working Kosovo or other Albanians currently in Iraq, and Afghanistan if somebody do not know this, can check around

Ilir

Kosovo will at end be for those who lives here longer and want to live longer, us Kosovars,

Princip,uk
16 August 2007 at 17:57

Laser,

no need to get your knickers in a twist but I was just highlighting what you accepted & wrote yourself;

"Even now, Serbia insists on maintaining its legal sovereignty over the land and is offering the people wide autonomy"

- surely it is the right of any country to protect and maintain "its legal sovereignty" - I am not disagreeing I am fully and wholeheartedly agreeing with you!

Ment,

Serbia's sovereignty over it's southern province is not in dispute and thus the example of the UK protecting it's sovereignty oevr some as you suggets "disputed" islands 8,000 miles away can be held as a example to Serbia. That is the real use of the example i.e. if the UK can protect it's soverignity over Islands in "dispute" remote from itslf then Serbia has every right to protect it's sovereinty too.

Oh by the way Laser, I would not nor hold onto too much hope the new UK PM Gordon Brown & his Govt. will wish to out do the predecessor Blair by spinning a deception regarding Serbia's province and undermining the UN itself by tearing up a UN SC resolution that they formulated and agreed along with the US. Dubya might do such a reckless act but I very much doubt our PM Gordon Brown is willing to go along with such an abrupt action against the UN. In fact I bet my last penny against the PM Gordon Brown recognising an illegal entity if the ethnic-Albanians unilaterally declared independence out with the UN. Beyond that I also very much doubt Bush would too especially next year with the US elections looming ever closer - I think he has enough on his plate!

John,

I have a very good British account of European history thank you and would suggest you consider opening your mind to other broader historical accounts beyond just Albanian history books which were very selective indeed especially under the communist regime of Enver Hoxha. If I recall correctly during the 2nd World War the Albanians set up their very own SS division (SS Skanderberg) in full support of the Nazi ideals of ethnic purity and set about doing just that in war time occupied Yugoslav territory of Southern Serbia! But surely it is better that the tit for tat over history is put behind and finding a way to build reconciliation and trust amongst all of Serbia’s citizens is the best way forward rather then highlighting differences, creating artificial borders and mono-ethnic entities or going over and over who did what in the past? Surely a “European” solution is one based upon bring barriers down and protecting human rights and that should be the overriding issue for ways at resolving Serbia’s southern province!

ment
16 August 2007 at 18:30

Princip

The argument was slightly different with Aussie and the other guy. But since we're talking ...

Well actually, Serb sovereignty over Kosovo has always been disputed... by the Albanians who've lived there since Serbia violently claimed the region as its own with the help of some of the early 20th Century European powers.

In any case, sovereignty is not GOD's law. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but Germany gave up sovereignty over the Sudetenland after WWII mostly due to its role in starting the war against Czechoslovakia.

Serbia pulled a similar stunt. It abused its sovereignty over the region of Kosovo and the Albanian population there. As a result... it will most likely lose it. Period.

lazer
16 August 2007 at 19:09

Principe,

I wrotte this:"Even now, Serbia _INSISTS_ on maintaining its legal sovereignty over the land and is offering the people wide autonomy, but NOT A SHARE in governing Serbia as equal citizens.

The last paragraph makes the whole point and you cut it so it means something totally different.

Not the version you put down.

When people do that (misquoting) it really pisses me off, 'cause it is very LOW ETHICS to do that.

By doing that you try to portray that I wanned to say something else or different.

In any case, to go back to your question of DU used by NATO weaponry,

there is a company in Serbia that was selling DU to Pentagon even as they were being bombed.

All the Western analysts and NATO officials know that. Just tells you how money hungry they were.

lazer
16 August 2007 at 19:20

"The United Nations Thursday ordered Kosovo to start preparing for elections despite continued disagreement between the ethnic Albanian majority and Serbia over the province's eventual political status."

I guess we are moving forward with GIANT STEPS>

lazer
16 August 2007 at 20:09

Kosovo is NOT Serbia's , never has been, it is NOT, Never WIL BE!

Princip,uk
16 August 2007 at 20:18

Ment,

only 8 years ago the US, UK France and the rest of the UN SC reconfirmed Serbia's continued sovereignty with regards it's southern province - no need to go back in history! One good thing is you too clearly recognise & accept Serbia's continued sovereignty even if you wrongly think "it will most likely lose it." Given that Serbia had its sovereignty re-affirmed over the province to end the conflict what abuses are you talking about since Serbia has not done anything of the sort. The only abuse is the ethnic-cleansing of the 240,000+ non-Albanians from the province since then and the constant and daily attacks against all non-Albanians that continue with many living in pogrom like enclaves segregated by barbed wire and protected by armed NATO troops against attack by certain radical ethnic-Albanians.

Laser,

I was highlighting the fact that you indeed accept that Serbia has legal sovereignty and as such was using your words but if you prefer me to have used the whole sentence then fine. However, it still states that you agree regarding Serbia's sovereignty over it's province as exemplified by your words;

"Even now, Serbia insists on maintaining its legal sovereignty over the land and is offering the people wide autonomy, but not a share in governing Serbia as equal citizens. "

- your right Serbia should insist on maintaining "its legal sovereignty"! I would disagree that it is not wanting to treat all it's citizens as equal - there is an Albanian member of parliament representing ethnic-Albanians beyond the province so that begs the question - what is different about ethnic-Albanians in Serbia's province beyond the ethnic-Albanians in the rest of Serbia? Beyond that what is wrong with Serbia giving autonomy to the province and allowing full self representation and governance under autonomy for its southern province and not giving seats in the Belgrade parliament? There are many in the UK who think it is unjust that at the current moment in the UK with a devolved (not autonomous) Scottish Parliament that some Scottish representatives are allowed to vote on say Education which is separate for England & Wales from the Scottish system but they therefore do not have representation! You can't have your cake and eat it - if you want autonomy and self governance then why should you be able to vote in the Belgrade parliament on matters that you have no representation for? This is exactly like wanting to create the unjust West Lothian issue in Serbia. However, if you accepted fully the state you were in and integrated completely without a separate parliament then I see no reason why there would not be representation in Belgrade - the choice is of your own making. I am certain that Serbia would accept such an agreement quite gladly.

regarding your last comment I guess you can flip-flop your mind but the reality is as I said only 8 years ago the US, UK & France all agreed in the UN SC that on the contrary Serbia's sovereignty over its province was to continue.

Is it not about time that everyone thought out of the box to find a solution that is a true "compromise" and supported building reconciliation, trust and much need economic development while respecting the obligations already agreed and the very foundations guaranteeing sovereignty of all UN member states?

lazer
16 August 2007 at 20:38

Serbia only INSISTS. It would NOY INSIST IF THEY HAD SOVEREIGNITY over Kosova/

So The Conclusion is: Serbia has NO SOVEREIGNITY over Kosova.

Clear?

Princip,uk
16 August 2007 at 21:07

I really do hope is Hon. Denis Macshane reads this coment page and considers what the best "European" solution is for Serbia's province and takes note on some of the comments who fail to understand the question put forth;

AlbanBytyci
16 August 2007 at 22:15

The most convincing, balanced and influential historical arguments on the question of Kosova and the Balkans, have been published by Dr Noel Malcolm, in his books, Bosnia: A Short History and KOSOVO: A Short History. I would suggest none of you "comment zealots" waste time telling us the history of that particular land, because you know it too well that no one pays any attention to them.

Phoenix
16 August 2007 at 23:13

Serbia never enjoyed holding Kosovo, because it never been hers, just like in a everyday life you never enjoy something that isn't yours, sooner or later it will flip from your hands (it took long for Kosovo but better later then never). Just like they have successfully portrayed "Krajina" as some kind of historical Serbian province populated entirely by peace-loving, tax-paying Serbs ethnically cleansed by evil Croats in 1995. Blatant falsification - "Krajina" was built in 1991 on the mass slaughter of up to 20,000 Croats more than 4000 are still missing and the ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands more. Croatians should indeed be proud of their own liberation from such a hell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdMOG3gJvYs&mode=related&sear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J34rrhKbgys&mode=related&sear...

http://voiceyour2cents.com/html/world_news/world_013.html

A piece of critical information missing from this article, and also missing from the many I’ve read on Serbia and Albania: Serbians at that time were under the control of Bulgar or Byzantine rulers and did not organize their first state until 1170. Serbia reached its zenith under Czar Stephen Dusan who died in 1355. His death was followed by civil war among Serbian nobles which led to a Turkish invasion. The Serbs suffered a stunning defeat at the battle of Kosovo in 1389 and another at Smederevo in 1459. Serbia remained only as an Ottoman vassal state well into the nineteenth century when it was fully reestablished as an independent state by the Treaty of Berlin in 1878. To understand the genesis of Serbia, Serbia has lost every war, Serbias inferiority, insisted on the unique features of Vulture lose the war and win the campaign of waiting for someone in its weakest point in such situations swoop down on its carkus. Such vulture-like behavior is self-evident in Flag of Serbia. Croats battle at Petrinja in 1592, Zrinski in 1566, Zrinsk and Fran 1621-1671, Udbina and ... as Serbias vultures swoop down on ther dead carkus.

Do you remember Slobodan Milosevic? He was on trail for genocide when he died in custody. His trial had been going on for four years which is longer than the genocide he actually committed. How about General Radko Mladic? He directly supervised the slaughter of 8.000 at Srebrenica and was indicted for it twelve years ago. He is known to be in Serbia. From my point of view, the UN could have made a decisive statement that it would no longer tolerate genocide but it didn’t. It looked into the face of evil, blinked, and babbled in bureaucratic impotence. Do you remember General Ante Gotovina? UN and EU imagined General Ante Gotovina would be an appropriate political "counterpart" for Slobodan Milosevic and other Serbian war criminals such as Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic, although the former General Ante Gotovina defeated them and stopped their very crimes. Croats, Bonia and Albania were murdered in areas occupied by Serbs.

EU continues to turn a blind eye to Russia and Serbs evil deeds. A weak-kneed EU might unite in response to the Kremlin's provocation. This one is splintering also over big power Moscow and its Serbian mini-me. The EU plays softly with Serbia, even recently restarting talks toward eventual membership. If we start redrawing borders Southeast Europe could fall off track again with open bordering issue, with nasty repercussions for everyone and Moscow and its Serbian mini-me on doorstep of the West's elite clubs. Europe needs to do a better job of protecting our interests in reality Europe is inviting criminal Serbs in to its house, afraid of Serbs big brother bully Russia. kissing Russia ass also approves of Rassas views about increased tension and violence in the worldand calling United States pariah. EU your still eating serb s*it, and sucking up to the enemies.

gmbooks.com
16 August 2007 at 23:39

Your article, Russia's Veto over Kosovo, mocks international laws and encourages the violation of the UN Charter and the Helsinki Final Act. This has nothing to do with Russia, it's about stealing land, redrawing the map of the Balkans for the 5th time in ten years and absconding with the single largest asset of the Serbs—the Trepca Mines in northern Kosovo, estimated to be worth over $3 Trillion dollars, and one of the largest coal reserves in Europe that can last 500 years. Your editorial treats this asset like the elephant in the room hoping no one will notice this political robbery, no wonder Bush and MacShame are eager to grant Albanians independence, it's more payback for their corporate cronies. Dennis MacShame is self-serving as he ignores his own Faulklands war with total hypocrisy.

Serbs WERE the majority (80%) in Kosovo for a thousand years and built over 1,500 churches and monasteries in an area barely the size of Rhode Island. In my lifetime, Serbs have become a minority starting with the Holocaust under Benito Mussolini when the liquidation of over 100,000 Serbs reduced their numbers to 45%. After the war, Tito forbade the 155,000 ethnically cleansed Serbs from returning to Kosovo, giving their land to Albanian Nazis further reducing Serbs to 39%. When Tito granted Albanian "autonomy" in 1974 the Serbian language was banned and over 120,000 Serbs were cleansed as Serbian farms were burned and Serbian girls and nuns were raped, reducing the Serbs to 29%. Today Serbs are less than 8% and are forced to live in barbed-wire enclosed ghettos protected by KFOR. Those who venture out are murdered.

The very suggestion that independence will protect this minority is absurd when 17,000 NATO troops were incapable of stopping the violence in March, 2004 when 14 Serbs were killed, 500 Serbian homes were razed and 39 Serbian churches destroyed in 4 days of Albanian violence.

This is about the total eradication of the Serbs and a total Genocide achieved from the hopes and aspirations of these Albanian Nazis from 65 years ago in Kosovo, how appalling that MacShame manages to look the other way.

If the 350,000 recently cleansed Serbs and the 80,000 non-Albanian minorities were allowed to return to Kosovo and the 40% undocumented Albanians were forced to leave, there would not be this fictitious "90% Albanian" population to seek independence.

Is MacShame really this stupid? Your article is shameful, especially your omission that during this war 90,000 Albanians fled to Belgrade... into the arms of their Serb enemies?

MacShame's support of the illusion that undocumented aliens have more rights than citizens provides a clear picture of what is in store for California as illegal Mexicans become a majority.

Kosovo is not merely about population count, it is about the "Jihad" taking place in the Balkans while the major powers look away. Great Britian went to war based with the Clinton liar on "humanitarian" claims yet both countries totally ignore the human and legal rights being denied to the Serbs.

After WWI when the Serbs provided the first victory on the Salonika Front Great Britain's Prime Minister Churchill called it a "magnificent valor." Church bells rang in Great Britain for 24 hours to honor those Serbs and movie theatres played the Serbian national anthum before showing their film. Now your country defacates on the Serbs. What a shameful disgrace. Those Serbs lost 52% of their adult male population in that war and 25 years later lost one-third of their population in the Holocaust fighting for freedom and democracy. Now MacShame wants to rip from their bosoms their Jerusalem and the religious culture that is slowly being destroyed.

The failure to mention the 151 ancient Serbian churches that have been destroyed in the past 5 years, right under the noses of 17,000 NATO troops, or the that dozens of new Islamic mosques have been built, including the Osama bin Laden Mosque, all financed with Saudi money, is a form of mindless journalism as though there is only a Muslim side to this ugly story. A pox on all of your houses!

Why do we need two Albanian countries in Europe... or is MacShame pretending that a "Greater Albania" is not the end game here? Are Albanians lining MacShame's pockets like the KLA has done with UN Envoy Ahtisaari? Or are we also pretending not to know the truth about this Envoy's immoral indiscretions, too?

William Dorich

Los Angeles, California

The writer is the author of 5 books on Balkan history including his 1992 book, Kosovo. He is the recipient of The Order of St. Sava, the highest recognition given to a lay person by the Holy Synod of Serbian Orthodox Bishops, and, an Award of Merit from the Serbian Bar Association of America.

gmbooks.com
17 August 2007 at 00:05

Postscript to Dorich post:

I am the first plaintiff in a $100 million dollar law suit against the Vatican Bank for their money laundering

during the Holocaust. www.vaticanbankclaims.com

In the legal discoveries of this case we have unearth shameful participation by Great Britian, not only from morons like Kim Philby a communist bastard, but from the British government who aided and abetted war criminals including 740 Roman Catholic priests who fled Europe through the "Vatican Ratline" for Argentina where they lived quite comfortably on the blood treasure of my family and hundreds of thousands of Serbs, Jews and Gypsies.

The late Michael Lees, author of The Rape of Serbia (1989) revealed the duplicity of the British government in the Holocaust including his own betrayal. Why should anyone be surprised that you so easily betray the Serbs—allies with the West in two World Wars?

As a triple victim of Balkan Genocide my grandparents were "ethnically cleansed" from Kosovo prior to the turn of the century. They resettled in the Krajina, in the village of Vojnic where my father was born. Before he reached his 13th birthday the family was again cleansed, only this time it was called by a prettier term, "Displaced Persons."

My father came to the United States and away from these Balkan animals. But in 1942, Croat Nazis and their criminal priests locked 97 Serbs inside their church in Vojnic and burned it to the ground. Seventeen of those victims were my direct relatives.

In 1995 President Tudjman had the church ruins that stood for 65 years bulldozed to erase the crime, just as he bulldozed the Jasenovac Concentration Camp and its museum as the West looked the other way.

Today Croatian rock starts sing Ustashe songs and their audience give Sieg Heil salutes and yet morons like MacShame want them in the EU? Croatia, who used their Nazi checkerboard symbol under which hundreds of thousands of Serbs were liquidated is an embarrassment to the world.

Croats, much like Albanians in Kosovo will give you every excuse in the book but a Leopard does not change its spots. Croats will insist that their hideous checkerboard is an ancient symbol from the 15th century, while ignore the fact that the Swastika comes from the Bonze Age. Its not about when the symbol was created its what it represents.

During Operation Storm in August, 1995 when 200,000 Serbs were cleansed from Croatia the last 5 relatives of my name were too old and too sick to flee. I was notified a month later by the Red Cross that they were found with their throats slit.

Please do not preach to me about human rights, dignity, or legal rights when my entire family has been wiped out by these Balkan terrorists.

As as far as I am concerned my own government and political leaders defacate on the motto etched over the doorway of the U.S. Supreme Court.

"Equal Justice Under the Law." That might as easily say, "except for Serbs."

William Dorich

gmbooks.com
17 August 2007 at 00:37

Serbs did not try to exterminate the Albanians in Kosovo. Several journalist, including one from the UK were in Kosovo during the bombing and said the vast majority of Albanians were fleeing the bombing.

They also said the KLA was forcing Albanians to leave.

You, too ingore the fact that 90,000 fled to Belgrade into the arms of their Serbian enemies? Or that 100,000 fled to Montenegro or that 140,000 fled to Macedonia? You so even handed and such a hypocrite that its little wonder you have to resort to fowl language. Be careful you upbringing is showing or is that your lack of an Albanian education showing?

What a surprise that you ignore the facts that when the Albanians who fled to Albania were escorted back into Kosovo by NATO forces more than 100,000 former criminals and prisoners from Albanian jails were among them. You are just as evenhanded with the truth as MacShame.

Ivan
17 August 2007 at 10:31

I like the fact how albanian commentators, love to see Serbs as devils and ethnic clensers. You claim to be angels, saint and that UCK was a freedom army. But one thing confuses me, is that how come there are 3 thousand serbs missing from Kosovo and Metohija? How come the UNMIK forces that came to " protect " you, are now in fact protecting Serbs from you? Do you remember the March ethnic clensing? Maybe Gorazdevac will remind you of how angelic a siptar hand can be.

As for ment, I am not sure how much freedom do the Scottish and Welsh have with their own referendum. Last time i was there , they told me that if they think of independence, the same scenario would happen as in Northern Ireland. And as for Northern Ireland , we all know that the Irisih never wanted to be with English, and there was no consensus, because if there was why did the British troops leave that land only 40 years after the first violance broke out?

Ment, you claim that its the will of the people that counts. And i support you for that, but then why do you force Serbs in kosovo and Metohija to live under ANOTHER siptar state? Dont get insulted by the word siptar, its just how you guys call each other , right? Why do the siptar politicians oppose so much the division of Kosovo and Metohija? Allow the self determination principle :)

leka_g@hotmail.com
17 August 2007 at 13:03

IvaN, your name surely stand for Naïve.

Not to mention how insulting and arrogant you are, in using a term siptar, which only Cetnik's use. Are you a Cetnik?

We are Albanians to you, the oldest nation in Balkans. You my friend, can go back to Russia, where you came from in the first place, and you can forget about getting RUS in Kosova. The line is drawn between East and West and it's the Serbian border with Kosova. Whilst you’ll be singing with Ceca and playing balalajka on your side, we will be having BBQ and listening to some Bruce Springsteen with our US friends.

Bob Petrovich
17 August 2007 at 16:36

RtHon Denis MacShane speaks of Balkan's long-overdue rendezvous with 21st-century modernity, as if modernity exists.

It seems that the fact that we do not live in modernity any longer has escaped his attention. However, this article epitomizes the "abandonment of objective truth" characteristic to Postmodernism.

It seems that RtHon MacShane is either not a regular reader of New Statesman, or chose to forget the established facts.

In either case, I would recommend old copies of New Statesman, e.g. 13 December 2004 (John Pilger - Kosovo - the site of a genocide that never was) and June 2, 2003 (Neil Clark,George Soros: “The billionaire trader has become eastern Europe’s uncrowned king and the prophet of “the open society”. But open to what?) .

ALBIQETE
18 August 2007 at 04:44

Serbian ESCAPISM AND DENIAL

HONEST DECLARATIONS –believing what you say is the truth- in fact is not

OUTRIGHT LIES – avoiding to admit the truth

SELECTIVE PERCEPTION- chooses only an opinion to support or favor their viewpoint in the matter

SELECTIVE RECOLLECTION chooses to recollect only facts / fiction who favor only their viewpoint in the matter

SELECTIVE INTERPRETATION chooses only to interpret the topics who favor only their viewpoint in the matter

ALBIQETE
18 August 2007 at 04:46

FOOD FOR YOUR THOUGH about Serbian lies

Dobrica Cosic Former Yugoslav (Serbian) President

“We lie to deceive ourselves, to console others; we lie for mercy, we lie to fight fear, to encourage ourselves, to hide our and somebody else’s misery. We lie for love and honesty. We lie because freedom. The lie is the trait of our patriotism and the proof of our innate smartness. We lie creatively, imaginatively, inventively.”

hrcak.srce.hr/index.php?show=clanak_download&id_clanak_jezik=4768

ALBIQETE
18 August 2007 at 04:47

http://www.haverford.edu/relg/sells/reports/sevenfallacies.h...

ALBIQETE
18 August 2007 at 04:48

http://www.haverford.edu/relg/sells/reports.html#7Misconcept...

ALBIQETE
18 August 2007 at 04:48

http://www.bosnia.org.uk/bosrep/decfeb00/libraries.cfm

ALBIQETE
18 August 2007 at 04:49

http://www.bosnia.org.uk/bosrep/marjune00/museums.cfm

http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9911&L=jus...

http://www.haverford.edu/relg/sells/kosovo/herscherriedlmaye...

http://www.haverford.edu/relg/sells/reports/gopbelgrade.htm

ALBIQETE
18 August 2007 at 04:57

http://albanianrealitycheck.blogspot.com/

ALBIQETE
18 August 2007 at 05:00

THIS IS A MUST READ

UNDER THE HOLY LIME TRRE BY

DR. SABRINA p. RAMET

http://hrcak.srce.hr/index.php?show=clanak_download&id_clana....

Princip,uk
18 August 2007 at 08:59

Albiquete,

and how does such Albanian

" ESCAPISM AND DENIAL

HONEST DECLARATIONS –believing what you say is the truth- in fact is not

OUTRIGHT LIES – avoiding to admit the truth

SELECTIVE PERCEPTION- chooses only an opinion to support or favor their viewpoint in the matter

SELECTIVE RECOLLECTION chooses to recollect only facts / fiction who favor only their viewpoint in the matter

SELECTIVE INTERPRETATION chooses only to interpret the topics who favor only their viewpoint in the matter"

- all of which are exemplified in your links help to resolve the Gordian knot regarding Serbia's southern province?

oryx
18 August 2007 at 10:42

Ivan,

I agree that in Kosovo both NATO and the UN only look at the situation from a biased view that Albanians were only victimised by the conflict. In fact, what happened to all Kosovans (yes I say Kosovans) of Serb descent who had to flee from the UCK ethnic cleansing (it is no different than what was perpetrated by ALL parties in Bosnia. Both the UN and NATO have failed the Kosovans of Serb descent dismally and have not allowed for the return from Serbia of those who had to flee the UCK onslaught. As for building democratic institutions: unless we start recognizing that all segments of Kosovan society should participate in determining its future - meaning also the refugees returning to Kosovo to VOTE - we will fail to find a final solution. This is however a view not commonly shared by politicians in the west who fail to understand the complexities of Balkan societies both in history and the present.

Ivan, I surely hope that someday a JUST solution can be found, but only if we let everyone participate fully.

roffel
18 August 2007 at 14:43

Poor Denis MacShane...

He obviously didn't understand what happened in 1999. There were small scale butcheries by both sides, but nothing on a scale that would justify a war that would claim 5000 lives. Many people believe it had more to do with Clintons need to draw the public attention away from the Lewinsky scandal as the situation in Kosovo. As for Blair, he didn't leap, but fall to the status of poodle.

If NATO/KFOR had restored order after the war and created a situation where minorities felt just as much at home as the majority Kosovo might now make a good chance for independence. But the NATO heroes from 10 km high proved cowards when they actually had to put themselves between the conflicting sides and in front of ruthless mafia bosses. And so they ended as PR men for an ethnic cleansing.

As Russia rightfully maintains: Serbia has the full rights over Kosovo's territory. If mr. Bush is so stupid to promise things in Tirana that are outside his authority that is his risk. I think his promise of independence for Kosovo should be discarded with the same resoluteness as when he would have promised the Channel Islands to France.

Resolution 1244 foresaw a short period of UN rule after which Kosovo would get a negotiated interim government. That interim government would negotiate with the Serbs about the final status. If KFOR/NATO had held to the letter of this resolution there would be no limbo here as Kosovo would at least have a solid interim status. But instead they chose to offer the Albanians a semi-independence that was better than anything they could expect from negotiations with Belgrade. By doing this they sabotaged the negotiations.

just_a_serb
18 August 2007 at 18:16

"The endgame is clear. It is a Serbia, free of Kosovo, joining Croatia and Slovenia in an EU and Nato that can bring prosperity and security to the Balkans. The region's future should be decided by Europe, not Moscow."

Is there any occasion a Brit would fail to demonstrate his ridiculous ignorance?

We'll make our best to retain our right to decide about our own future and to kick you out of meddling in our affairs. With the current support of Russia, there is an excellent possibility we succeed sooner than we expected.

Keep dreaming about "clear endgame".

just_a_serb
18 August 2007 at 18:49

Apologies to Brits. It should have referred to British politicians. Perhaps there are some of them who are not so ignorant and arrogant, but we failed to see any such recently.

jon
18 August 2007 at 23:23

I am sorry to see some ignorant people here portraying Russia as someone that is following the international law and doing nothing above the law. How about the recent planting of the flag on no mans land? Western countries are sick of the Slavic lies and propaganda. We know that Serbs came to Kosovo and it was never their land. Yugoslavia was an artificial country, which does not exist any more, so Kosovo will be independent to, rightly so. I am looking forward to go to visit the Independent Kosovo and get a stamp on my new passport.

ROBERT,P
19 August 2007 at 00:14

To all those that say kosovo belongs to a sovereign serbia. Kosova will gain it's independence with zero amount of partition with equal rights to all its citizens as long as they abide by the laws of the republic of Kosova . Firstly,given that Kosova was annexed by serbia in a unlawful manner Kosova's independence will in no way be in contradiction with international law.On the contrary,Kosova independence even before being qualified as a classic & unique case of secession from a sovereign state ,as serbs argue,should be considered as annulment of an unlawful annexation. in fact it was serbia that acted in contradiction with international law in 1912 when it annexed Kosova through military occupation after its war with the ottoman's even though Kosova had its historic & ethnic identity,accompanied by its right to liberation,whether that was from ottoman occupation (1912) or fascist occupation (1944),and in spite of its geographical demographic & cultural integrity. Consequently,instead of admitting its unlawful act,which serbia committed while violating international law in a bold manner,sebia is now using an argument which is scientifically & historically unsustainable,namely to "preserve its sovereignty over Kosova" which,as proven by facts she held in an unlawful manner for a long period of time without ever asking the majority population of Kosova or having their consent. Kosova was occupied during balkan war(1912-1913) in contradiction with the aspiration of the albanians,expressed during their national liberation movement (1878-1912).In this manner serbia,in spite of getting the "international legitimacy"for the occupation of Kosova,in no way was able to justify the legitimacy of its act.In addition to this,serbian possessive attitudes towards Kosova which refer to history are unfounded. Firstly they are unfounded in its methodological qualification of the national character of territory because if history is to be taken as a criteria in light of contemporary national-territorial realities,hungary has the right to the panonic part of yugoslavia,bulgaria & hungary would argue about their rights over belgrade,greece would claim a right over istanbul,Albania over janina,mexico over florida & california,sweden over finland,germany over shlezi & sudet regions denmark over shlezivik,iraq over kuwait etc, secondly,serbia's possessive attitudes towards Kosova are unfounded in the aspect of material truth,since Kosova,in spite of allegations of such nature"in neither a cradle of serbian nation,nor of serbian state".finally,imperialistic ambitions with "historic rights"could not be defended by england,france,spain,portugal,netherlands,which,as it is known "with centuries held many nations under their occupation.Therefore with the destruction of colonial empires over 120 new states were created".Serbia was "under the occupation of ottoman empire for over five centuries(1300's-1800's).spain " had conquered all latin america in the beginning of xvI century neither do russians ever mention their historic rights over ukraine".historic arguments speak very clearly that " serbs were placed in Kosova with their expansion under the rule of Nemanjics".As a result of occupations during the ottoman empire,many ethnic minorities,such as serbs,turks & roma,were placed in the ethnic Albanian territories.The serbian minority was greatly expanded with the violent colonization that occurred between two world wars; nevertheless their percentage never exceeded 10% of the overall population.On the basis of these facts the conclusion is very clear:it was in deed the serbian aggression,occupation & annexation of Kosova that violated the international law and not otherwise,namely that Kosova independence would violate international law.History is a witness of denationalization policies;of gross crimes against Albanians during 1912-1918; for genocidal serbian plans for the extermination of albanians;for the deportation of albanians thruout the world & for confiscation the lands of the population and its colonization with serbs & montenegrins.The time period between febuary 1998 and june 10,1999 only exeeded these special cases and took the gravity of a general genocide of the serbian regime against albanians.Secondly,the decision for Kosova's future cannot ignore the constitutional position of kosova in former yugoslavia although kosova did not enjoy the status of a republic,However,most importantly,Kosova was a constitute part of former yugoslavia with a defined territory and borders,which could not be changed without its consent.Kosova was directly represented in former yugoslavia federation the same as the other republics,not through serbia because we would create a paradox as in that case serbia would have 3 votes in the federation,while the other units would have only 1 vote.With its political-territorial identities,its constituition,Kosova was a federally constitute unit of the multinational federation of yugoslavia.That Kosova was not part of serbia can be proven by the following historical and political facts:kOSOVA was not part of the independent sovereign state of serbia with its international personality recognized in the berlin congress (1878);Kosova was not part of serbia in second AVNOJ congress (1943);Kosova was not part of serbia during its establishment as a federal unit in the anti-fascist popular liberation council(1944);Kosova was not a part of serbia in the structure of constitutional assembly of yugoslavia when the federal republic of yugoslavia was founded (1945). Kosova was not included in the sovereign serbia ,except in federal serbia within federal yugoslavia,during the military occupation of Kosova (1945).Finally it is worth mentioning that the abolishment of kosova's autonomy with the amendments in the constitution of serbia,an act,which occurred on march 28 1989,was done in a unlawful manner.Even if we didn't have the essential deficienciesregarding the declaration in the Kosova assembly, deficiencies that are proven,"lack of free will",as a result of extraordinary political pressures,makes the declaration for constitutional amendments unconstitutional. Yes serbia will be sovereign,but without the, INDEPENDENT COUNTRY OF KOSOVA ,KOSOVA WILL BE GOING ITS OWN WAY, TOGHETHER WITH THE GOD BLESSED U.S.A . NATO & EUROPEAN-UNION .

gmbooks.com
19 August 2007 at 04:54

P.S.

The Serbian Cyrillic alphabet was created for the Serbs in the 8th century, not that this should matter.

What should matter is that some of the oldest Serbian church ruins date to the 11th century and several churches that remain standing are from the 12th century. How compelling that the first Mosque was not built in Kosovo until 400 years after the battle of Kosovo in 1389 when the Muslim Turks defeated the Serbs. Today Albanian Muslims would have the West belive they were the foundation of Kosovo.

In a thousand years the Serbs were the majority until the Holocaust when they were reduced to 45%. During that thousand years they built over 1,500 churches and monasteries in an area barely the size of Rhode Island. In the past 400 years Albanians have built 114 mosques with three dozen of them built in the last 5 years. Dah!

Albanians have made comments in the media that these ancient Serbian churches were actually Albanian Catholic churches that were stolen by the Serbs and converted. Such historical revisionism makes most scholars laugh, especially when dozens of these Serbian churches have frescos on their walls of their founder holding a scale model of the church and those same saints are buried in the floors of the churches they built.

Goebbles was right in 1939 when he said, "Tell a lie a hundred times and it becomes the truth." Albanians have a total disregard for history or the truth and hope that stupid American who are ignorant of their own history will never take the time to research these outrageous newspaper remarks to discover that they are being lied to over and over again, sometimes by our own media.

DrJustice
21 August 2007 at 06:59

Despite all of the bogus claims and fanatical support for the illegal "independence " of Kosovo, this theatrical show has been created courtesy of NATO to maintain a base for its troops in the wake of the Cold War and to continue NATO's anti-Russian "defensive" policies by encircling Russia. Except for Albanian-Americans like Joseph DioGuardi, noboby in the West really cares about Kosovo except in the interests described above. Germany and the Vatican had a clear age-old strategic purposes in destroying Yugoslavia and stealing Serbian ancestral lands Western mainstream media propaganda notwithstanding. All of the subsequent suffering was started by these entities. However, Western leaders may now get what they wished for by restarting a new Cold War. Europeans who foolishly went along with this play will be suffering the most.

JimmyJames
22 August 2007 at 00:21

Dennis McShane is the consummate hypocrite. He has never defended the rights of the Kurdish people in South east Turkey to independence. Officially 40,000 have been killed there, not 2,000 as in Kosovo that NATO used as an excuse to bomb Yugoslavia to precipitate the overthrow of its President. As a NATO member should Turkey not be required to display far higher standards of human rights than Serbia? Not according to Dennis McShane. What about independence for Nagorno Karabakh, Abkhazia and South Ossetia? I suppose his instant answer must be that those who don't enjoy NATO favoritism by definition must be second class. McShane must be the model social democrat!

lazer
24 August 2007 at 12:30

gmbooks,

it is not gonna help you quoting Goebbels.

Take a look what Dobrica Cosic, the president of SANU said about lying and the Serbs.

The Serbian Monasteries in Kosovo, some where build by Serbs with the help and labor of Albanians.

Albanian Catholic churches where built way before Serbian churches, way before the Slavs came to the Balkans from the TUNDRA in the North.

Albanians accepted Christianity long before your Serbian murderous ancestors showed up in the Balkans and started killing the people that were living there already for thousands of years, Illyrians.

Illyrians were a very peaceful nation, Serbs were murderers, and the showed that, by killing hundreds of thousands of Bosnians, Albanians, Croatians....

Its a long list, and what you are trying here is to circumvent the TRUTH and TELL US A BIG LIE< THAT IS TYPICAL FOR SERBS>>>>KILLERS.

There is NO WAY BACK, KOSOVO INDEPENDENCE is IMMINENT.

It is going to happen.

And when you talk like that about AMERICAN PEOPLE YOU SHOULD BE THROWN OUT OF USA, Mr. Dorich.

Your books on "genocide" of Serbs is way overblown.

There were 6 million Jews who died in WW2, but they moved forward.

Your hate for USA that gave you a new life to live away from poverty in Krajina or Serbia oe where ever heck you come from.

I should report you for supporting the murderous regime of serbia. If you are a US citizen and you showing alligance to a foreign country tyhey can strip you of citizenship and DEPORT YOU TO SERBIA, mook

Sumar
29 July 2008 at 18:07

Balkan version of Al Qaeda, is a better approximation. KLA have, and still do, fund radical Islamic movements all over Europe. They stay out of US and US doesn't notice them.

The semtex explosive used in Britain was purchased from the Albanian mafia KLA in Kosovo, and what does UK do? They hand Kosovo into the pockets of the same people that supplied the terrorist attacks on UK. There is a leaked video on www.YouTube.com which follows a British reporter as he acts his way into the living room of a KLA soldier and buys quite a lot of plastic explosive.

It is mostly NATO and countries under the sway of NATO power that have recognized Kosovo

The word Kosovo has roots in the Serbian language, just as Sue stated. The word Kosova also has roots in the Serbian language pertaining to the bird "Kos".

Ancient history of who was there first has little to do with actual reality, or else the Native Americans would have claim to the total area of USA and Canada. This obviously isn't going to happen.

The only possible claim of separation the people of Kosovo might have, is if they had a referendum in which all citizens of Serbia were allowed to vote, this is the legal way.

This did not happen, the Kosovo parliament made the decision for all the people in Serbia, that Serbia can do without Kosovo. Illegal.

This is the reality, not some pseudo-nationalistic view of the world where every tiny group of people can pick and choose what territory belongs to them.

If the 'State of Kosovo' cannot separate legally, then it should be ready to do it by way of war, and to retain the sovereignty of its borders ON ITS OWN after the war. Unfortunately they cannot do this and rely on the protection of NATO, which does not make them an 'Independent State', it makes them a NATO base in Europe.

I say tiny because there are cities with bigger populations, and the police forces in these cities can defeat Kosovo and annex it. Its really not self sustaining.