America's confused outlook

Hugh O'Shaughnessy

Published 21 July 2008

The re-appearance of the fourth fleet prompts Hugh O'Shaughnessy to cast his mind back to his first trip to Venezuela in 1962

Let me remind you, in case you missed it, that this month the US Navy's Fourth Fleet,disbanded in 1950, took to the waters of the Caribbean, the Atlantic and the Pacific Oceans once again. According to whom you listen to, the sailors' tasks as they steam out of their base in Florida will be to police, or to protect, to threaten or to build confidence and trust in the region by focusing on, we are told, threats common to the US, the Caribbean and Latin America. President Evo Morales of Bolivia is blunter. For him the warships are just "the Fourth Fleet of Intervention".

Its re-appearance now made my thoughts race back to 1962 and the first of my many trips to Venezuela. The experience of landing at dusk at the international airport of Caracas on a narrow ledge of land beside the Caribbean port of La Guaira was thrilling. Even more thrilling was the taxi ride up the motorway, through its tunnels and over its viaducts into the blazing light of the Venezuelan capital itself thousands of feet up in the Andes. The short, smooth ride brought me face to face not just with a dazzling dose of Latin glamour but also with the wisdom of the rulers of what was Spain's empire in America. It demonstrated to me the care they took where they could to establish their capitals well away from the coasts. At sea level the British, French and Dutch under commanders such as Francis Drake or the Netherlander Piet Hein could deploy their powerful fleets and plunder the galleons taking treasure back to Spain.

Throughout Spain's lands in America ports from La Guaira to Cartagena and Barranquilla, and from Veracruz, Valparaiso and Tampico to Portobelo took their chance at sea level under whatever protection their fortresses' cannon could offer. Mexico City, Bogota, Quito, Managua, Guatemala, Santiago de Chile and the rest with their politicians in their viceregal palaces and treasuries were out of reach of foreign enemies' cannons, outside the range not only of direct fire from ship-borne guns but also of any amphibious force that their foes wanted to put ashore.

The same is the case today as it was three centuries ago. Chavez in Caracas and Correa in Quito can afford to laugh at the US Navy. In landlocked Bolivia - where Evo Morales' government is allowing local inhabitants to set the speed at which locally stationed US forces have to evacuate their lands, the threat from the Fourth Fleet is nugatory.

The question remains why George Bush thinks the new deployment of the Fourth Fleet is worth the candle. Ever before the collapse of Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac, the domestic funding agencies, the Federal budget was already overstretched as the collapse of the dollar showed. The strains imposed on US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan - as evidenced by their defeats by the Taleban whom they once created to fight agains the Soviets and compounded by the audacious frauds of US civilian contractors - are piteous.

Washington's outlook is confused. We are told that while assault carriers menace Venezuela and US war planes intrude into Venezuelan airspace from their base in the Netherlands Antilles the State Department is seeking to mend bridges not just with Chavez in Caracas but with Ahmedinejad in Teheran. It's very puzzling.

One big loser is George Bush's main ally, President Alvaro Uribe high up in his Andean capital of Bogota. The freeing of the guerrrillas' long-term prisoner Ingrid Betancourt gave him a little respite and he has gone to make a bit of peace with his adversary Chavez while he can. Buy sadly for him President Correa of Ecuador hasn't come round to forgiving him for his recent murderous attack on Ecuadorean territory and Uribe's decision to opt out of the Latin Americans' new defence alliance has not commended him to the rest of the continent.

The other day he lost his foreign minister. Up there in the heights of Bogota the Colombian leader doesn't look safe. He looks isolated.

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22 comments from readers

roberto white
21 July 2008 at 16:03

How can this magazine continue to publish such tripe? Hugh O'Shaughnessy must truly be an alias because anyone with such a name would have better command of the English language and at least a little better thought processes

Ian Crause
21 July 2008 at 16:25

I think the latin right need to start their Bolivian civil war pretty damn sharpish.They only have til November and the US elections to create uncontainable havoc on the continent before ol' yellow belly Obama pulls the plug.I think Mr. O'S is right as usual, epecially in light of the approaching recession and the disastrous waste of money and men in the gulf.

I'm sorry I disagree with you again, Mr. White.

Please don't forward my IP address to Mr. Pink, Mr. Amber, or, God forbid, Station Chief Mr. Gold.

bren92
22 July 2008 at 13:21

I presume it isn't the Uribe with 80% approval ratings who has hammered the FARC into a corner while achieving unprecedented levels of growth that this old Trot is jabbering on about?

knave
22 July 2008 at 13:32

The great liberal and drug lord , Escobar "idolized" Uribe and that he had obtained "dozens of licenses for landing strips and hundreds of aircraft and helicopters on which the drug trafficking infrastructure was built" while Uribe served as Director of Civil Aviation (1980-1982).

They both sound delightful.

knave
22 July 2008 at 13:34

Also 85% of Germans thought Hitler was fantastic in 1940.

Was he a good guy?

bren92
22 July 2008 at 14:22

Knave

A world class argument. You clearly know a lot more and have far better judgement than the vast majority of Colombians.

antileft
23 July 2008 at 09:55

"I presume it isn't the Uribe with 80% approval ratings who has hammered the FARC into a corner while achieving unprecedented levels of growth that this old Trot is jabbering on about?"

Actually, its the one with the 85 percent approval rating! The peak was 95 percent, but that was just after the freeing of Betancourt... You know, the one that has halved the murder rate, grown the economy far faster than virtually any predecessor, and made kidnappings go down to 1 tenth? Apparently, according to hugh here, he's... Struggling? Hmm bizarre. Im with roberto white on this- is this guy just having a laugh?!

"Chavez in Caracas and Correa in Quito can afford to laugh at the US Navy. In landlocked Bolivia - where Evo Morales' government is allowing local inhabitants to set the speed at which locally stationed US forces have to evacuate their lands, the threat from the Fourth Fleet is nugatory."

Hugh this is such nonsense! BOATS CARRY PLANES AND TANKS hugh! And planes carry people! Honestly, where do you get this stuff from?! If America wanted to invade any of those countrys they could do it very easily- even while theyre bogged down in Iraq.The left in that region always tries to sound bigger than it is: "America doesnt come here because its navy cant reach us and we have a few russian-made jets! Hoorah!!! VIVA LA REVOLUCION!!!" Yeah sure. Hugh is right about something- americas foreign policy is an irrational mess. But dont think that they COULDNT invade any of those countries! Holding them together is another matter but invading then is just what they are good at. Being on a mountain stopped mattering a few centuries ago!!! Hahaha "We re on a mountain! IN YOUR FACE america! Cant get to us here!!!" Hugh, youre a funny man, Ill tell you that.

Oh and Knave- if you dont understand the situation at all why do you even bother posting?? Youre worse than hugh- at least hes wrong for the purpose of propaganda- youre just wrong because you dont know the first thing about the situation. "Hes like hitler!" Is just the kind of moronic simplification that bush made about saddam. Only someone who knows NOTHING about the situation could try something as idiotic as that.

knave
23 July 2008 at 10:04

Oh and Knave- if you dont understand the situation at all why do you even bother posting??

Youre worse than hugh- at least hes wrong for the purpose of propaganda- youre just wrong because you dont know the first thing about the situation. "Hes like hitler!" Is just the kind of moronic simplification that bush made about saddam. Only someone who knows NOTHING about the situation could try something as idiotic as that.

So anybody who disagrees with you AL.

Interesting.

We still love you Captain hook.

Also Brengun

there is something called the tyranny of the majority.

Like other tyrannies, the tyranny of the majority was at first, and is still vulgarly, held in dread, chiefly as operating through the acts of the public authorities. But reflecting persons perceived that when society is itself the tyrant -- society collectively over the separate individuals who compose it -- its means of tyrannising are not restricted to the acts which it may do by the hands of its political functionaries. Society can and does execute its own mandates; and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with which it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself. Protection, therefore, against the tyranny of the magistrate is not enough; there needs protection also against the tyranny of the prevailing opinion and feeling, against the tendency of society to impose, by other means than civil penalties, its own ideas and practices as rules of conduct on those who dissent from them; to fetter the development and, if possible, prevent the formation of any individuality not in harmony with its ways, and compel all characters to fashion themselves upon the model of its own. There is a limit to the legitimate interference of collective opinion with individual independence; and to find that limit, and maintain it against encroachment, is as indispensable to a good condition of human affairs as protection against political despotism.

bren92
23 July 2008 at 14:56

Knave

Oh dear, "the tyranny of the majority". In which part of Wikipedia did you look that one up? Obviously far better to have the tyranny of someone like you rather than those damned pesky Colombians voting in overwhelming numbers for Uribe, eh?

knave
23 July 2008 at 17:06

Oh Bren

Like the millions who voted for Hitler.

Tyranny like me. Am I running for office ?

knave
23 July 2008 at 17:07

By the way the quote isn't from wikipedia but by a guy called Mill

bren92
23 July 2008 at 21:02

Knave

Ever been to Colombia? Thought not.

knave
24 July 2008 at 08:29

I have actually but a long time ago

So to comment on any subject you have to lived there. Strange logic.

So you cannot write about 1066 because you were not there.

Also Bren you have been to Columbia

I assume as an advisor to right wing para groups or Uribes hilltop battalion or ,a typical UK journo, like O Keefe who get their kicks by seeing trades unionists arrested and tortured.

Bren as one of these wonderful human beings, not unlike their FARC adversories, who enjoy inflicting misery onto others.

Personally I think the old bard said it best

"A plague on both your houses"

knave
24 July 2008 at 08:37

6,255,785,507 dollars is the amount of money given to Uribe in the last 2 years by Bush.

Christ ,even Brown couldn't make a boll"""ks of the economy with that amount of dosh coming into the country.

antileft
24 July 2008 at 09:55

Knave no kidding you went to colombia! Fascinating- where did you stay? Which area and hotel? What did you do there? Which year did you go in? Id love to hear about your experiences, Knave. Tell us all about it, please.

You would, however, have to know NOTHING about the situation to simply compare uribe to hitler. Before Uribe, you could barely travel from city to city. Now, you can go way off the track into tiny rural places. The murder rate has more or less halved. The economy has grown much faster than for many decades. Farc has shrunk massively. ELN and AUC are much smaller than they were. the kidnap rate is 1 tenth what it was. Do you disagree with these statistics or do you just... Not think they matter?

By the way, maybe you should read up a bit about colombia? You could start here- its an article explaining why uribe should stand down now (they said the same thing after his first term).

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=1...

It starts with "ONLY those blinded by ideology would deny that Álvaro Uribe has made Colombia a better place". Does that sound like you, knave? Or are you just completely ignorant of the situation?

Now, tell us about your trip to colombia knave? Lets hear aaaall about it. Im sure itll be enlightening, without anything copied and pasted from wikipedia.

antileft
24 July 2008 at 10:03

"6,255,785,507 dollars is the amount of money given to Uribe in the last 2 years by Bush.

Christ ,even Brown couldn't make a boll"""ks of the economy with that amount of dosh coming into the country."

You just read that, didnt you knave?! The number is "six billion dollars", knave, and most of it is in military hardware, as you really should know but probably dont...

If you want to see a really big number, look how much the americans have given chavez for his oil. PHEW!!!

Now tell us about your trip to colombia.

knave
24 July 2008 at 16:35

You just read that, didnt you knave?! The number is "six billion dollars", knave, and most of it is in military hardware, as you really should know but probably dont...

That doesn't account for military hardware or personal.

You would, however, have to know NOTHING about the situation to simply compare uribe to hitler.

I was actually making the point about opinion polls. The fact that Hitler enjoyed great popularity. Also the polls were probably taken in white right wing middle class areas full of antilefts

Before Uribe, you could barely travel from city to city. Now, you can go way off the track into tiny rural places.

With the amount of US soldiers and money I am not surprised

The murder rate has more or less halved.

Those figures come from Aribe police. Yes you can believe them.

The economy has grown much faster than for many decades.

Nonsense compared to other countries and with billions of dollars pupmed in are you surprised.

Farc has shrunk massively. ELN and AUC are much smaller than they were.

I agree with that but thanks to efforts of Chavez and the ecudorian president.

the kidnap rate is 1 tenth what it was.

Again when the government controls the right wing paras who along with the unfashionable FARC kidnapped most of the people . Now the government just arrests them without trial.

Colombia (IPA: /kəˈlʌmbɪə/) officially the Republic of Colombia (Spanish: República de Colombia?·i, Spanish pronunciation: [reˈpuβlika ðe koˈlombja]), is a country located in northwestern South America. Colombia is bordered to the east by Venezuela[1] and Brazil;[2] to the south by Ecuador and Peru;[3] to the north by the Atlantic Ocean, through the Caribbean Sea; to the north-west by Panama; and to the west by the Pacific Ocean. Colombia also shares maritime borders with the Caribbean countries of Jamaica, Haiti and the Dominican Republic and the Central American countries of Honduras, Nicaragua and Costa Rica.[4][5]

Colombia is the 26th largest nation in the world and the fourth-largest in South America (after Brazil, Argentina, and Peru), with an area more than twice that of France. It also has the second largest population in South America after Brazil.[6]

The territory of what is now Colombia was originally inhabited by indigenous tribes which had migrated from North and Central America, including the Muisca, Quimbaya, and Tairona. To the south lay the Inca Empire.[7] The Spanish arrived in 1499, and initiated a period of conquest and colonisation which ultimately led to the creation of the Viceroyalty of New Granada (comprising what is now Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador and Panama) with its capital at Bogotá.[8] Independence from Spain was won in 1819, but by 1830 "Gran Colombia" had collapsed with the secession of Venezuela and Ecuador. Modern day Colombia, with Panama, emerged as the Republic of New Granada. The new nation experimented with federalism as the Granadine Confederation (1858), and then the United States of Colombia (1863), before the Republic of Colombia was finally declared in 1886.[9] Panama seceded in 1903.

Colombia has a long tradition of constitutional government, and the Conservative and Liberal parties, founded in 1843 and 1848 respectively, are two of the oldest surviving political parties in the Americas. However, tensions between the two have frequently erupted into violence, most notably in the Thousand Days War (1899-1902) and La Violencia, beginning in 1948. Since the 1960s, government forces have been engaged in conflict with left-wing insurgents and illegal right-wing paramilitaries. Fuelled by the cocaine trade, this escalated dramatically in the 1990s. However, the insurgents lack the military or popular support necessary to overthrow the government, and in recent years the violence has been decreasing. Insurgents continue attacks against civilians, and large swathes of the countryside remain under guerrilla influence, but the Colombian government has stepped up efforts to reassert government control throughout the country, and now has a presence in every one of its municipalities.[9]

Colombia is a standing middle power[10] with the second largest Spanish-speaking population in the world after Mexico.[6] It is also one of the largest manufacturers in South America. Colombia is very ethnically diverse, and the interaction between descendants of the original native inhabitants, Spanish colonisers, African slaves and twentieth-century immigrants from Europe and the Middle East has produced a rich cultural heritage. This has also been influenced by Colombia's incredibly varied geography. The majority of the urban centres are located in the highlands of the Andes mountains, but Colombian territory also encompasses Amazon rainforest, tropical grassland and both Caribbean and Pacific coastlines. Ecologically, Colombia is considered to be among 17 of the most megadiverse countries in the world.

Just what i can remember and this is wikipedia irony AL

gnuneo
24 July 2008 at 18:10

and soon the UK will also have 2 new carrier fleets to send down there, presumably to keep the peace by preventing the US from attacking Venezuela?

it is little wonder Chavez is copying the tactics of Castro, as Cuba is pretty much the only Latin nation to successfully oppose the US since the introduction of the Monroe Doctrine - once again we can see political system's theory running its course, the extent to which Cuba was forced to go to to maintain its independence against US imperialism, has now created a model that other regional nations can copy, with similar erosions of civil liberty and personality cults.

the tragedy is, and it is a main part of the Eternal Human Tragedy, that had the US and Western Elites really wanted development and democracy in these nations, and not mere consumers in a regional Empire for the enrichment of the Feudal Few, it could and would have been achieved decades ago, there is absolutely NO reason why every part of the Earth could not achieve a similar standard of living to Scandinavia, albeit with regional differences.

but that few always want as much of the pie as they can quietly or rudely steal, preventing development from taking place.

SETI? A search for TERRESTRIAL intelligence would be more valuable.

antileft
26 July 2008 at 06:51

Sorry, knave, but Im going to have to be blunt here. You lied about going to colombia, didnt you? Come on, admit it. It's so obvious.

You also make the ultimate stupid point that somehow... Chavez and Correa lowered the kidnap rate in colombia! hahaha yeah nice one. Even while the murder rate has ALMOST DOUBLED under Chavez in venezuela:

http://www.economist.com/world/la/displaystory.cfm?story_id=...

Which again, you didnt know, did you?

What a fool you are. And you also claim that somehow... The statistics are more or less made up by the government. Ok, I can understand- a lot of the figures are at least based in part on their numbers. But one slight problem... All you have to do is go there and see for yourself. It is SO BLATANTLY OBVIOUS that life there is better that its unreal. All you have to do is go- youll see that the statistics tell a truthful story. Its clear, knave. I just mention the statistics because its better than saying "everyone I speak to in colombia, in rural or urban areas, rich or poor, tells me that life is far, far better than it was before uribe". So quit being an idiot- you just dont know the first thing about colombia at all, do you? And dont lie to me- you havent been.

john61
31 July 2008 at 00:17

the us empire is in FULL panic. they are desperate. they know the the imperial house is caving in all around them. will try everything no matter how illogical. and of course true to form, their lemming automaton stooges such as the "Anti left" brainless MORONS will follow their Rich to the bottom of the gorge. it's such beautiful sight .

john61
31 July 2008 at 00:20

@roberto white,

the black price of the empire you are such a stooge moron.

antileft
13 August 2008 at 09:21

Very intellectual, john. Didnt even try to debate here, did you?

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