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Thou shalt not hug

Frank Furedi

Published 26 June 2008

British society no longer trusts grown-ups to interact with children. In a controversial new report, Frank Furedi and Jennie Bristow argue that the culture of "vetting" adults is damaging relationships between the generations

British society no longer trusts adults to interact with children. Since 2002, growing numbers of people have found themselves required to undergo a Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) check simply because their work or voluntary activities bring them into contact with children. This includes football coaches, cricket umpires, Guiders and Scoutmasters, volunteers in churches, charities and community centres, parents who volunteer for school trips or after-school clubs, and members of parent-teacher associations - as well as a host of others whose work is not to do with children, but might just involve having contact with them, such as bus drivers, or plumbers who fix school radiators. This month the BBC calculated that one in four adults will have to register with the new Independent Safeguarding Authority next year. The ISA boasts that something like 11.3 million people will be affected by the new scheme for vetting adults.

In the report Licensed to Hug, published on 26 June, my co-author Jennie Bristow and I explore the implication of the steady expansion of criminal-record checks on intergenerational relations and community life. What we found is that the system of vetting adults has taken on a bizarre life of its own. Already the question "Have you been CRB-checked?" has become part of everyday discussion at the school gates. We have talked to parents who were told that they could not attend their children's disco because they were not CRB-checked. Suspicion of grown-up behaviour towards children has fostered a climate in which it has become normal for some parents to trust only adults who possess official clearance. As one manager of a children's football team stated, "I only allow CRB'd parents to drive team members to training."

The research for Licensed to Hug indicates that most of our respondents in the voluntary sector accepted that a system of national vetting was now a fact of life. Many prefaced their statement with the word "unfortunately". Some were sceptical about its efficacy; others felt that it was burdensome and confusing. There were complaints about the enormous costs of maintaining the system and the amount of time it takes to process the paperwork. A significant minority of volunteers have been put off from working with children. One volunteer manager of an under-13s cricket team told us of his frustration at losing his "inspiring" coach who simply got "fed up with the hassle and paperwork".

Supporters of the new culture of vetting grown-ups argue that, whatever the critics say, the system protects children from adult predators. However, our experience of vetting as a society raises a question mark over the idea that the system "works", either in terms of protecting children from abuse, or in terms of increasing public confidence in those working or volunteering with children. As the recent history of the Criminal Records Bureau has shown, the first consequence of more stringent vetting procedures has been a demand for even more stringent security procedures. This indicates that the effect of CRB checks is less to increase trust in those organisations and institutions that insist upon vetting than it is to fuel mistrust in those that do not.

Experience indicates that the institutionalisation of the vetting of adults has unleashed a logic towards increasing the number of people who are deemed to be in need of formal clearance. So, in February 2008, the government announced trials of a new scheme that would enable parents to check with police whether a '"named individual" - a family member, a neighbour who looks after children, a new sexual partner - has child sex convictions. The Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith, stressed that the initiative would not be a "community-wide disclosure", with information given out to anyone who asks. The more this process goes on, however, the more arbitrary it becomes to say where vetting should stop and trust begin.

The alleged protective effects of a system of vetting are largely illusory. Aside from the fallibility of record-keeping and technical systems, vetting takes into account only what somebody has done in the past. The most sophisticated system in the world cannot anticipate how individuals with a clean record might behave. Thus, the CRB provides little guidance about people's behaviour in the future. It provides the impression of security, but not the substance. It is difficult to avoid the conclusion that the national vetting scheme represents an exercise in impression management rather than offering effective protection. Vetting measures also fuel suspicion about adults. In that sense, they are not just harmless rituals, but negatively influence the conduct of adult-child relationships.

Although proponents of the scheme contend that it is designed to prevent "worst-case scenarios", the very institutionalisation of the scheme encourages worst-case-scenario assumptions to become the norm. One consequence of this process is that adults feel increasingly nervous around children, unwilling and unable to exercise their authority and play a positive role in children's lives. Such intergenerational unease has not made children safer than in the past: if anything, it is creating the conditions for greater harm, as adults lose the nerve and will to look out for any child who is not their own. Perversely, it inadvertently encourages grown-ups to avoid their responsibility for assuring the well-being of children in their community. One of the principal consequences of the vetting of grown-ups is the legitimisation of the idea that it is not the responsibility of the older generation to take a direct interest in the lives of children.

The most regrettable outcome of the new child protection policies associated with vetting is the distancing of intergenerational relationships. They foster a climate where adults feel uneasy about acting on their healthy intuition and feel forced to weigh up whether, and how, to interact with a child. Such calculated behaviour alters the quality of that interaction. It no longer represents an act founded on doing what a mentor feels is right - it is an act influenced by calculations about how it will be interpreted by others, and by anxieties that it should not be misinterpreted.

In sport, the difference between a coach automatically reaching out to correct a child's position and a coach asking himself, "Is this all right?" before doing so is that the former is a spontaneous action based on a desire to improve the child's game, and the latter is a timid gesture, reflecting an uncertainty about authority that the child must surely sense. In a community group, the difference between giving a distressed child a hug and asking that child, "Would you like a hug?" is that the former is given as an unprompted expression of human compassion, and the latter is a transaction that requires a child's formal consent.

Without doubt, children need to be protected from those who may prey upon them. However, the policing and formalisation of intergenerational relations does little to help this. The policy of attempting to prevent paedophiles from getting in contact with children through a mass system of vetting may well unintentionally make the situation more complicated. One regrettable outcome of such policies is the estrangement of children from all adults - the very people who are likely to protect them from paedophiles and other dangers that they may face. The adult qualities of spontaneous compassion and commitment are far more effective safeguarding methods than pieces of paper that promote the messages: "Keep out" and "Watch your back".

Adults feel at a loss

During the course of our discussions with people working in the voluntary sector, it became evident that applying formal procedures to the conduct of human relations also threatens to deskill adults. Many adults often feel at a loss about how they should relate to youngsters who are not their children. When formal rules replace compassion and initiative, adults become discouraged from developing the kind of skills that help them relate to and interact and socialise with children. This process of deskilling the exercise of adult authority may have the unfortunate consequence of diminishing the sense of responsibility that adults bear for the socialisation of the younger generation. Individuals who talked to us about the "hassle of paperwork" also hinted that they were not sure that working with kids was "worth the effort". And if adults are not trusted to be near children, is it any surprise that at least some of them draw the conclusion that they are really not expected to take responsibility for the well-being of children in their community?

Most policymakers, as well as thinking adults, do sense that there is something wrong with the conduct of intergenerational interaction. Of course, the crisis of intergenerational trust is a complex cultural problem, to which there are no quick fixes. It would be one-sided to argue that policy developments such as the national vetting and barring scheme have created this problem, and that removing them would solve things overnight. However, our research suggests that the creation of a probationary licence for adults through the national vetting scheme exacerbates the breakdown of trust within communities, and throws assumptions about adult authority and responsibility into question in a way that militates against people stepping in to help children out when things go wrong.

What is needed is both enlightened policy, which puts greater trust in the ability of professionals and volunteers to act on their instincts and less pressure upon them to cover their backs; and less policy: putting a halt to the juggernaut of regulation and behaviour codes that makes voluntary organisations increasingly difficult to run, and volunteers resentful and unsure of themselves. As the government evaluates its national vetting scheme, we suggest that it pays at least as much attention to the consequences in terms of deterring "good" volunteers as it does to the scheme's effectiveness in keeping "bad" volunteers out.

However, the single most important problem that needs to be addressed is how society can affirm and support the exercise of adult authority through acts of solidarity and collaboration.

The growing distancing of encounters between the different generations in our society can only be fixed through providing adults with greater opportunity to interact with children. Adults need to be encouraged to exercise their responsibility towards the guiding and socialising of young people. That means that we need to question and challenge cultural assumptions that automatically throw suspicion on adults and the exercise of adult authority.

Frank Furedi is professor of sociology at the University of Kent. Jennie Bristow is a journalist and the mother of two pre-school girls

"Licensed to Hug" is published by Civitas (£5)

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35 comments from readers

ronyewpg
26 June 2008 at 09:48

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Have we became a sick society because we don't touch each other (our interpersonal space is huge compared to latin countries) OR we don't touch each other because we have became a sick society?

mitchy
26 June 2008 at 13:40

Interesting article, many valid points made about a phenomenon I reckon has a significant cultural element to it. Its interesting how in many European countries, attitudes towards children are very different, much less marred by the uncertainty and paranoia which seems to have taken hold in the UK and US. Indeed, Europe could teach us many things about our attitudes to various aspects of life, such as alchohol consumption, community etc, but I digress.

Carl Jones
26 June 2008 at 16:12

This is Britain at the cutting edge of family destruction. I have to be CRB checked for my work (sorry antileft) and this is at the higher level. "I haven`t been caught yet, so the system doesn`t work that well"....of course, I don`t mess around with childern . My wife has at verious times agreed to look after friends children and at the drop off you can read what the mum is thinking, "is my child safe".

In one job I did alot of work with children, this was pre 1990 and our golden rule was NEVER be alone with a child and in my experience, I found this a great protection from children coping with a screwed home life.

When a swimming teacher told me that 75% of the children in her classs were under care orders (for what ever reason), you can see that adults also need protection. Outside the family unit, I can`t see a need for any adult to be left on their own with a child. The NS has had verious rants about getting higher rape convictions and there is already a trend to move away fom true justice, so how far will the bar need to fall before the majority of people develope the perception their children are safe?

My main issue isn`t with the checks, but with the police and courts who will come under greater and greater presure to convict. We already live in a society where it is fast becoming the responsibility of the citizen to prove their innocence.

ashleyhk
27 June 2008 at 04:39

I live in Hong Kong and have done for the last 15 years, with no thought of returning to the UK. Here, adult interaction with children is just considered normal. I can take my daughetr and her friends to the movies, the beach, whatever, with not a second thought.

One of the things which finally drove me to leave the UK was one day when I was at a zebra crssing, and a small girl-maybe 5 or 6 was waiting to cross by herself. It was a very busy junction (where were the parents, I wonder) and I took hold of her hand to ensure she would get across safely. It suddenly struck me, when we were crossing the road that I was putting myself in danger if anybody misconstrued what I was doing. I felt sick that our society had come to the point where something as innocent could possibly be a source of concern.

mike ellis
27 June 2008 at 08:46

The Feminist Movement has much to answer for.Yet again, Harman has shown her true colours in supporting human rights only when it suits her. Indeed wasn’t it the now Deputy Leader Harriet Harman who once said of men/fathers that their need and worth is unproven, yet on Friday 20th June 08 Ms Harman praised her record on human rights, quote “when I was at Liberty, I did not support people who opposed the Human Rights Act," Harman told ITV News. Ok, so being that words can and often do come cheap let us just look at the facts behind the woman and her ideology. In 1990, Harriet Harman (who became a Cabinet minister), Anna Coote (who became an adviser to Labour's Minister for Women) and Patricia Hewitt expressed their beliefs in a social policy paper called “The Family Way”.

It said: "It cannot be assumed that men are bound to be an asset to family life, or that the presence of fathers in families is necessarily a means to social harmony and cohesion."

This in itself was a staggering attack on men and their role in modern life and in my view a forerunner of what was to come, a very subtle yet insidious agenda inflicted on families of a kind never witnesses before. Hewitt, in a book by Geoff Dench called “Transforming Men” published in 1995, said: "But if we want fathers to play a full role in their children's lives, then we need to bring men into the playgroups and nurseries and the schools. And here, of course, we hit the immediate difficulty of whether we can trust men with children."

For nearly four decades, these pernicious attitudes towards family life, fathers and boys have permeated the thinking of our society to such an extent that male teachers and carers are now afraid to touch or cuddle children and as for fathers they fear to embrace their very own daughters!

So easy is it for Ms Harman to quote human rights as her guiding light, yet still another to implement them along with the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child and this I fear will forever remain her Achilles heel at the expense of family life.

Far better would she be were she to concentrate on Top Family Court Judge Justice Coleridge who rightly so has launched a devastating attack on our fractured society and puts the blame squarely on her governments shoulders.

IsThatcherDeadYet
27 June 2008 at 11:36

Murdoch's tabloids and their 'paedo on every corner' style scaremongering must share the blame. Unfortunately we get the society we deserve.

Andrea Gomez
27 June 2008 at 14:18

What nobody seems to have noticed (with regard to cost of the CRB checks to society) is another creeping concern. CRB checks are often processed by private companies licensed by the CRB to perform the checks on their behalf using software licensed by the CRB to process CRB data. We are now seeing a rapid growth in 'CRB Check start-up companies' among the entrepreneur sector, and private companies are quickly emerging as get-rich-quick middlemen, cashing in on paranoia. Such companies have very little interest in CRB checks and child protection (other than the profit they stand to earn from them).

knave
27 June 2008 at 20:59

I did love that story of a mob in pompey who had taken the name of a pedo, which they got from the news of the screws, looked up the local thompson guide and then tried to attack this family.

They happened to be pediatricians.

You have got to love your average British journo and the mob mentality of "sun readers".

Red Shift
27 June 2008 at 23:00

Men who want to have sex with children will find it easier to access the schools, voluntary services, care homes.

It is men. I haven't heard of a woman deliberately organises her life to gain access to kids for sex.

Next time you think a kid needs a hug, try improving your conversational skills.

Therefore the controls should remain in place.

Cybertiger
28 June 2008 at 11:30

Jonesy said,

" We already live in a society where it is fast becoming the responsibility of the citizen to prove their innocence."

I think we should all remember Sally Clark , the evil of Professor Sir Roy Meadow and a hopelessly malign, dysfunctional justice system. Lest we forget ....

julianerik
28 June 2008 at 18:18

In response to Red Shift, let's not forget that abuse can be more than sexual or physical it can be emotional and psychological as well. Women are as capable as men of perpetrating such acts. There are no convictions for such abusers and so such people could easily be hired particularly with a smaller pool of available volunteers.

To alienate men from caring professions (if I get your meaning) may well exclude highly qualified and suitable persons from taking up a position while encouraging belief that nobody has to worry about abuse now that only women have access to children.

Alienating and discouraging men from such roles would also have serious and wide ranging impacts on the social and emotional development of young boys. Men are not the enemy!

Cybertiger
28 June 2008 at 18:39

@knave

"I did love that story of a mob in pompey who had taken the name of a pedo, which they got from the news of the screws, looked up the local thompson guide and then tried to attack this family. They happened to be pediatricians."

Sir Roy Meadow, emeritus professor of paediatrics, was once seen as the all powerful Child Protector of all England and beyond. A serial offender, Sir Roy systematically undermined public confidence in the principles of British justice and trust in the medical profession. The damage has been incalculable.

fairplay
29 June 2008 at 09:15

i love kids. i have 3 of my own and our house is a base/playground for everyone elses. a complete madhouse but we love every minute of it. must we be vetted soon as a household and whether we have the neccessary credentials to carry on what we deem to be a normal life? the world has truly gone mad but the sadists running the governments and their servants in the justice system are usually the ones caught out for the very crimes they are supposedly trying to prevent. how ironic.

my niece was being bullied at school. she had a netball match and my brother asked me to go along and watch her to give her some moral support. when i got there i was the only adult spectator in a gym full of 13 year olds girls. so what you might ask. i thought the same. anyway, to say i was made to feel unwelcome by the teachers is an understatement. even having a family member involved in the match wasnt good enough for them. the scaremongers are doing the job they set out to do. the breakdown of the family unit is high on the NWO agenda.

love your kids, hug your kids, love your family, love your spouse and love your fellow human beings. do all these things and these bastards at the top will not break us down

writeon
29 June 2008 at 10:30

What's being created in our culture is an exaggerated climate of irrational fear of the unknown. Society is turning into a form of scary, horror movie, with murderers, rapists, thieves, muggers, child molesters, around every corner and hiding in every bush and shadow.

We are basically talking about "witchcraft" and that too served multiple pruposes in its day. That people believe in virtually non-existant threats and dangers, doesn't make their attitudes less dangerous. It's almost like being afraid to leave one's house and go outside because one might be struck by a meteor.

Clearly there are groups that are making a great deal of money and clawing power to themselves by selling fear to the public. These are powerful mechanisms. Society is being molded into a society under seige, from external and internal threats. The media have a great deal of responsibility for this. They sell scary stories in order to sell newspapers and sell their readers to advertizers. The security industry is booming. Politicians like fear because they can step forward and promise to protect us. Only the wise guardians are only interested in accruing power and building a society based on control. Control is insidious - it spreads slowly but surely. A society built on control and fear, is easier to rule.

Cybertiger
29 June 2008 at 10:59

"Society is turning into a form of scary, horror movie, with murderers, rapists, thieves, muggers, child molesters .... "

... and measles ...

" ... around every corner and hiding in every bush and shadow."

Have you noticed how a harmless childhood illness has now been turned into a killer disease, ready to jump out at any unvaccinated child?

Carl Jones
29 June 2008 at 19:59

Cybertiger; the vaccines are TOXIC, designed to to induce deferred death in later life....we are being farmed!! LOL

Carl Jones
30 June 2008 at 11:19

Censorship is alive and well. The elite are protected from child abuse crimes.lol

gnuneo
30 June 2008 at 19:31

in the USSR, and in Mao's China, children were used to spy on their parents - the Ultimate State Spies, disassociated from their parents, and indoctrinated into worshipping the State.

the paranoia and fear this engendered, not only in the parental generation, but later in the former children, who grew up in a childhood psychological environment of fear, mistrust and intergenerational isolation, is incalculable - but most cerainly harmful, both to society and the citizens.

do you know what the soviet leaders would say about the West? They would enviously note that most of the USSR's social control mechanisms were also in place here yet more widely accepted, and they would grumble that the difference is, the West's leaders managed to always make the control mechanisms seem like a benefit to the People.

thus as a child i heard about the dreaded surveillance systems of the USSR - now *we* have camera's on every corner. Soon we will have microphones, and earphones, so our rulers can hear everything we say.

i learned about the dreaded 'secret police', the KGB, with their networks of informers, we now have a higher %pp of 'undercover cops' than the darkest days of the USSR, and who has not seen all those notice-boards calling out to the British Public to shop each other out?

sory, i am wondering off the topic, my apologies.

whether this is deliberate, or simply just part and parcel of the society they wish us to move towards, all these 'measures', justified by massive scare-mongering in the mainstream press (basic rule-of-thumb - if legislation comes out of a media blitz, one can be pretty much assured it is harmful legislation.) never do what they are claimed to do, but nearly always are part of a process that ends with the exact opposite result!

as FF says, "One consequence of this process is that adults feel increasingly nervous around children, unwilling and unable to exercise their authority and play a positive role in children's lives. Such intergenerational unease has not made children safer than in the past: if anything, it is creating the conditions for greater harm, as adults lose the nerve and will to look out for any child who is not their own. Perversely, it inadvertently encourages grown-ups to avoid their responsibility for assuring the well-being of children in their community."

yet one can easily imagine the shit-storm that would be whipped up by the murdock press if the Govt reverses course, and acts in common sense for once.

which really highlights the growing problem of our society is not some vast underground conspiracy of 'pedos', but is the unchecked power of the media barons.

as for changing the policy - it is also easy to see that anyone coming forward to challenge the system will be called a paedophilephile, but we can only hope that for bloody once in new-labour's history, they can actually show some back-bone, go against the will of the media, and reverse this catastrophic trend before intergenerational isolation becomes set into our culture. More than it is already.

Cybertiger
30 June 2008 at 22:50

I've missed you! Nice to see you back. Have you been away, gnuneo?

MisterMitchell
02 July 2008 at 21:12

This as bad as the tyranny and ridiculous surveillance that is going on here in the States. Our country may be falling apart but the U.K. doesn't need to take steps like this to join us.

Cybertiger
02 July 2008 at 21:32

"... in the States. Our country may be falling apart but the U.K. doesn't need to take steps like this to join us."

The British have so much to learn from Americans ... and it's is always what NOT to do.

I love you Mr. Mitchell - you have real understanding.

BillN
03 July 2008 at 10:00

Furedi over eggs his case to the nth degree.

First, the repeated emphasis on onerous paper work tha tputs people off. I have to be CRB checked for my job and I spent about 15 minute son it. Fill in a short form and show a couple of examples of ID and that was it. There is more paperwork for the admin of the organisation but time and effort demanded of the individual being checked is minimum.

He gives us the rather obvious fact that checking can only tell you about the past, and what has been detected, but not the future. Of course it cant predict and does not guarantee future conduct, but there are masses of cases in the past where people with histories of abuse have got themselves, because of the lack of any vetting, in positions that give them unobserved access to children. Or people whohave been sacked in one job for abusive behaviour only to move on to another job in another area. The ISA will prevent this by maintaining a register of care workers.

When Furedi treats us to some of the ludicrous and over the top instances of "vetting mania" he reminds me of The Sun and The Daily Mail hunting out absurd loony left stories of multiculturalism gone mad in order to discredit policies of wehich the examples are not represetattive at all. I have been in and out of my grandsons school and have never beeen questioned about my CRB status. The idea that parents across the country are discussing CRB checking outside the school gates is I beleive a projection of Furedi's obsession and not a real representation of the content of parental conversations.

In fact I have never heard anyone have a conversation about CRB clearance outide of my working life in socail care. Even here CRB is accepted as a routine procedure and is not a topic of concern to most people in the industry.

As for his plea to leave it to professionals, and I am speaking as one, to use their judgement: that judgement is simply not reliable as means of protecting those vulnerable to abuse. I reacall a case in the South of Engalnd, can't recall which local authority, where the head of child care who was considered a local guru in child care was found to have been running a ring of abusers through the authroties childrens homes.

Furedi claims that the lack of trust in adults is fostering a breakdown of intergenerational relations. I don't see it. On the contrary our real concern should be the impact of the demonisation of young people fostered by the media and encapsulated in rafts of new crime and justice legislation. Apolice officer came into my grandsons school last week (he is 11) and told them that if they are out in groups of more than three this can be considered anti social. A few months earlier the class teacher had informed them they should not congerate in groups of more than five while waiting in the yard in the morning as this could be intimidating to parents dropping their children off.

Perhaps part of the reason adults feel ill at ease with children is that public spaces for children are being squeezed out of existence.

While Furedi wants to hang any malaise in intergenerational relations on a protection cullture he is kind of ignoring the seismic shifts in lifestyle and consumerism that are far more relevant than any protection culture. Perhaps people need to think more about spending tim ewith their kids rather than spending money on them.

Prior
03 July 2008 at 14:03

Hello, I would like to add my two pennies worth on this. Some of the comments passed on the article are correct, but i feel the majority of it isn't. The society we live in today demands new rules. Paedophillia is a new discovery, and what has become apparent is that there many of them around. With that in mind it is better to err on the side of caution.Yes, you can argue that a response to a child should be instictive, but any responsible person's actions should be "considered". Therefore my solution would be that there should be some guidelines if there aren't any already.

Carl Jones
03 July 2008 at 23:40

"Paedophillia is a new discovery".....is this a trick statement?

Joe Feld
04 July 2008 at 18:05

When I was a year 6 teacher in Hackney, I brought in a professional football coach to encourage the boys to improve their team skills. I was in structed that I must never let him be alone with the class because he had not been vetted. After months I asked the head why it was taking so long to vet him. She replied that she had no thought of vetting him, it was just up to me to constantlyt watch him!!!

Carl Jones
04 July 2008 at 18:29

Joe; at least she trusted you.:)

gnuneo
06 July 2008 at 01:32

CT: ty!

BillN: "our real concern should be the impact of the demonisation of young people fostered by the media and encapsulated in rafts of new crime and justice legislation. Apolice officer came into my grandsons school last week (he is 11) and told them that if they are out in groups of more than three this can be considered anti social. A few months earlier the class teacher had informed them they should not congerate in groups of more than five while waiting in the yard in the morning as this could be intimidating to parents dropping their children off."

but this is not opposed, this is part and parcel. As the tragic experiences of the romania orphanages show graphically, children denied basic sensory stimulations (being held, being hugged) are far more emotionally isolated, very similar to some effects of autism - and they find it very hard to bond with others, or to grasp the emotional needs of others.

i am hardly claiming that a "hug a day" can turn british society around, but its a simple fact that to put in social practices that strongly militate against such basic mammalian needs is debilitating for the child.

one poster said "brush up your your verbal skills" - i put it to them, if there is a crying baby, would that baby get as much feeling of comfort and solace from a repeated recorded message played into their crib, as they would being picked up and held?

i think the answer is obvious.

pedophilia is real, and needs to be addressed - but NOT by measures that clearly, both in theory and practice, make the situation, and related situations far worse.

the demonisation of children, which is also very very real, and with also easily observed consquences, is a seperate issue, and must also be addressed, if we are to have a progressive, non-violent society. I think we can all agree on that.

fairplay
06 July 2008 at 07:20

i think an anti big brother day should do the trick. if thousands spent the day hugging their kids and dismantling cctv cameras en masse what would the authorities do?

we know the answer to that. they would instigate another terrorist atrocity, and kidnap a couple of kids, just to let us know why they are "protecting" us with all this surveillance!!

mitchy
08 July 2008 at 13:10

Sounds like a plan, Fairplay. I think a 'civil disobedience day' is long overdue.

@gnuneo: Children spying on their parents in USSR & Maoist China? I didnt know about this, but it doesnt at all surprise me. How long before it starts happening here I wonder?

My God, I know I've said it before in other posts, but Mr Orwell would be spinning in his grave if he could see the world now...

Thisisme
09 July 2008 at 16:16

Don't usually comments on these, but after reading the article and comments I felt I had to. I agree with BillN's comments, I had to have a CRB check for my last job and barely noticed doing it! I don't really see why they are a big deal?

I also agree that protecting children from abuse has to be a high priority, especially because children are often shy to speak up, a timid girl (or boy) who doesn't like been touched (in a way which could well be intended to be perfectly innocent, granted) by a PE teacher is unlikely to complain. I believe psychical contact with close family and friends is essential to a child, but these are people who are close to the child, who the child trusts; this is different to a PE teacher, coach etc who does not know the child well.

I'm all for children been looked after by the whole community, but in that situation they are been looked after by people their parents have chosen to trust and who the children feel comfortable with, you do not chose your teachers, care workers etc.

Many teachers and care workers do wonderful and difficult jobs, but until you eradicate child abuse I believe string vetting is needed. I would rather feel vetting is over the top then have even one child suffer from child abuse.

Also having read some of Furedi's other article, he does seem to like the kind over the top scare mongering that BillN pointed out is more at home in The Sun and The Daily Mirror.

Sorry if that sounded rant like.

Carl Jones
09 July 2008 at 19:19

Thisisme; you should comment more often. I have no problem with CRB checks, but as I pointed out in a previous comment, my worry is about the growing pressure on the police and courts to convict, such as the current climate on rape convictions and moves to place all the responsibility on the male to prove his innocence, even if both parties are drunk/stoned.:)

postmodern
10 July 2008 at 11:01

Couple of factors not yet mentioned: The growth of vetting etc is also part of the growng 'professionalisation 'of relationships amid the wider division of labour. We pay through taxes for teachers to teach our kids; police to catch our criminals ; social workers to deal with the difficult old lady next door etc....So now we are gradually professionalising the socialising of our children - anyone relating to children has to be qualified to do so - the minmum qualification is CRB vetting -but it the demands will probably grow..Secondly - it 's possible to see the anxiety about child assault(especially sexual), and the proliferation of attempts to stop it ever happening as a reaction to the permissiveness of the sixties which saw organisations like the Paedophile Information Exchange almost becoming respectable. We can view the subsequent reaction as an essential restatement and underlining of the the 'incest taboo' which was at risk of being breached. This fear has in some ways been heightened by such things as the the growth of freely availbale internet porn , and the the absence of agreed rational/ethical principles about sexual behaviour in general -eg. see discussions about Mosley and BDSM. Is it 'right' behaviour or not? Hard to decide, as a society, so thank goodness for taboos which help us all draw the line.

gnuneo
12 July 2008 at 19:13

postmodern: the taboo is really quite simple, and does not need much elaboration - and certainly no 'professionalisation' - it is this: do not do unto others, as they do not wish to have done. This is the basis of consent, which by very definition those under the legal age may not give (nor, btw, can parents or guardians - children are NOT property of their parents!).

adults are still allowed to hit children, to create and violently enforce any kind of stupidity they wish to, with the child often having as little say as a Southern Slave would have done.

abuse at the end of the day is abuse, whether physical, emotional, sexual psychical or intellectual, and our children have as much right to be protected from them all, as we adults do. In fact, i would argue far *more* so.

"Many teachers and care workers do wonderful and difficult jobs, but until you eradicate child abuse I believe string vetting is needed. I would rather feel vetting is over the top then have even one child suffer from child abuse."

did you even read the article? The point is, the stringent vetting is actually making the situation, in the mid to long term, far WORSE - these measures will ensure there are far higher levels of intergenerational isolation, interpersonal isolation, and greater levels of social paranoia.

this is hardly arguable, will you agree?

do you imagine a society that has these effects, will be one that is creating the kind of social community that reduces the numbers of crippled individuals who become pedophiles?

as somebody already pointed out, vetting can only apply to those already accused (and the UK is already at the point where to be accused is to be judged guilty), yet the vetting is ensuring that *more* pedophiles are likely to be created!

i would prefer my own children to grow up in an atmosphere of love, trust, compassion, empathy, and 'innocent until proven guilty', with the little bit of risk (and such a tiny amount, in reality) that they may meet the wrong person, than a life of fear, isolation, mistrust, paranoia and 'hatred of the unknown'.

if i caught someone abusing my children, i would quite possibly kill them right there and then with my bare hands - but i refuse to regard everyone i meet as a potential rapist.

Silas111
14 July 2008 at 18:48

I came across this article and it confirmed everything that I have been feeling since my experiences with Scouts Canada.

How many Scout leaders are there, in today's modern society, where the leader is not a parent of one of the scouts in the group?

How many scout trooped have folded; not because of the lack of children but because of the lack of male role models signing up as leaders.

How many coaches of "non-professional" sports do not have a child of their own on the team?

Is there a male teachers shortage?

How come there is such a shortage of school bus drivers?

How come young men are not signing up to fulfill their "Divine Calling" and becoming priests and ministers?

YES!

MOST DEFINATELY CHILDREN NEED TO BE PROTECTED!

Unfortunately, society has gone to the extreme and become paranoid that there is a child molester around every corner.

Even with all the new security and background check, people still question a guy's motives for wanting to work with children.

Society now thinks that men should be doing MAN'S Work like; construction, or one of the trades, or factory, or where a suit and work in big business.

Society has taken this position of a total hands off approach when it comes to children.

A mother can not slap a child to stop misbehavior. If the mother even jerks the child strongly, some one with no life of their own, will call the police and report child abuse.

Even the fathers (that are still around) are looked at with suspicion if they hug their own son in public.

Heaven forbid if they are caught wrestling around with their son and they lift of the boys shirt to blow on their belly.

That can be interpreted as a form of sexual abuse.

Same thing if the father pins the boy down and tickles them.

The boy is not screaming for him to stop because he is not enjoying the tickling. It is simply a great father and son time together.

Yet people with nothing better to do, would phone Children's Aid and make that family's life hell.

Heaven forbid if it was an uncle or family friend doing that to a boy.

Most definitely a Scout leader would be investigated if he tried to have fun like that with his troop.

Parents will not let their boys go to the local Y.M.C.A. for fear of a child molester hiding in every change rooms.

How did children survive growing up in the 1950's, 60's, 70's and 80's?

There is ZERO evidence that there are 100's more child molesters in the 1990's until today in 2008.

What has increased is the number of False Accusations from people with nothing better to do that to make a family's life hell.

I'm almost 100% sure that those numbers have increased 100 times more from the 1990's

The child does not tell the person that "Daddy" is abusing him or her.

There are no marks on the child.

People just see something, like the father and son examples I gave earlier, and call the police of Children's Aid.

It's too bad the Media does not report on False Accusations as much as the do on actual child molesting.

It's too bad Children's Aid does not have to stand accountable. C.A. Workers and 'friends of the family' love having their 5 minutes of fame and their face on TV when they are right.

Reporters love going around and interviewing those people.

I can already hear the LAME EXCUSES if we made people just as accountable when they are wrong.

"Oh we can't do that because people would not come forward and report child abuse for fear of being wrong."

You mean that a person that sees a father give his son a strong close fist punch in the mouth and causes the boys lip to bleed would not call the authorities?

If someone saw deep bruises on a child would not call police for fear of being wrong?

Newsflash!!! THEY ARE CALLING NOW!

They will continue to call under those circumstances.

What will stop is the trashing of a family's life because of false accusations.

Once someone is falsely accused, that suspicion remains with the person for the rest of their lives.

How many teachers had to relocate in order to try and put the suspicion behind them?

To bad the person with too much time on their hands, did not have to relocate because they were publicly humiliated for falsely accusing someone.

The entire family would have been publicly humiliated.

The wife would have people saying behind her back things like "She should have know..."

The daughter would have gossip about her like; "I wonder if the father abused her too."

The son, who is the supposed victim, would be interviewed and traumatized because he knows that "DADDY DID NOTHING WRONG TO HIM."

Their friends would look at them and treat them differently because the suspicion is still there.

JUST MAYBE the suspicion would be a great deal less if it were publicly announced that the person that made the false accusation was nothing but a neighborhood gossip.

Maybe if the truth was told that the neighbor heard the boys screaming with LAUGHTER in the back yard because his father was spending time with him and tickling him silly.

How the neighbor would report it would be that they heard a boy screaming and saw the father pinning the boy to the ground.

That HALF TRUTH is enough for the authorities to start and investigation.

The FULL TRUTH is never told once the charges are dropped.

I'm talking from personal experiences.

Years ago, some anonymous parent thought I was "Too friendly with the boys" when I was a scout leader.

That was the exact way it was said to the District Commissioner.

He did a week long investigation to get to the truth.

He gave back and told me that he could not even find the parent that made the accusation about me.

I was allowed to go back to the scout troop but the damage was done to my reputation. The other leaders looked at me differently.

The boys never looked at me differently. In fact, while on a district campout, a few boys wanted me to go and play with them during free time.

The head leader said that it would be best if I stayed at the camp with the other leaders.

Tell me my reputation was not ruined because of some busy body parent and their false accusation.

Too bad that parent was not outed and made to feel like the liar like they were.

I felt uncomfortable wrestling around with the boys like I use to.

They would come up to me to playfully provoke me like that had done in the past.

They did not understand why the other leaders were all of a sudden rebuking them.

They did not understand why I was more distant toward them.

The boys lost out on having fun with the same leader they liked and trusted.

I lost out on having fun with them.

All because some parent had nothing better to do than to spread a rumor about me.

They did not even have the guts to come forward and repeat their accusation to the District Commissioner.

I strongly believe that the parent was jealous of me when they saw how much their son was enjoying the time with me.

They were jealous because I was showing their child more attention during one scout meeting than they did with their child all week.

Since they were incapable of having fun with their son, they felt their son should not have that much fun with me.

My situation is not an isolated incident.

Look around at the distance children and parents have with each other. You rarely see a parent show any form of affection to their child.

You do see parents yelling at their child.

You see discipline.

You see children fear their parents.

You see teenagers roaming the streets.

You always hear teenagers trashing their parents. That trash talk is so much different that in past generations.

If you take the time to actually talk with the teenager, they would gladly share their true feelings about their parents.

Most times it takes the form of them saying that their parents DON'T CARE!!

Their parents don't care how late they stay out.

They don't care who they hang out with.

They never showed any type of affection growing up.

The teenagers look at you like you were from another planet if you ask them if their parents ever said they loved them.

Society wonders why the youth of today are "out of control."

You have to wonder? WHY?

Society has set it up where there are no role models for the youth of today.

They set it up where there is such a fear that a man's actions will be misinterpreted so the male role model does not sign up to be a mentor.

If they do sign up there is a HUGE list of DON'Ts that they have to follow.

Don't wrestle with the boy.

Don't tickle him.

Don't grab him and throw him around in the pool.

AND whatever you do... DO NOT EVER HUG a boy.

The Don't List has been simplified over the years.

It's not simply "DON'T TOUCH A CHILD!"

Do you really have to wonder why teen suicide is up?

Do you really have no idea why children are so distant toward their parents?

Do you really wonder why teen pregnancies are up?

Children and teens have grown up with zero or little physical affection and love so they get it where ever they can find it.

Do you thing a child would go off with a total stranger if they were getting love and affection at home?

The opposite would be happening!!

Children would be running home after school because they knew they would get a warm hug from their mom and that Daddy would spend time playing with them in the back yard.

Now, children are told to "go watch TV"

Parents even put TV's in the child's room so they would not have to watch TV together with their child.

Parents get the child their own computer so they would not have to surf the Internet together with their child.

It's such a joke to heard parents say "I Never Knew...."

I will be so bold as to sat directly to the parent. YOU NEVER WANTED TO KNOW!!!

Parents are so grief stricken when a child a child commits suicide.

They come up with all the traditional things like "I should of..." I could of...

TO LITTLE TO LATE!!

I have ZERO sympathy for parents AFTER THE FACT!

If they said that they did everything possible and they showed the child all the love an affection they could then YES I would have sympathy.

Is it really possible to give too much genuine love and affection to a child?

When role models or mentors try to should affection to a child that needs it, they are falsely accused and labeled a molester.

When a scout leader wrestles with the scouts, people say he is being "too friendly."

Maybe the parents should start being "too friendly" with their own children like the scout leader is.

Prove me wrong!!!

Gwyn
28 July 2008 at 17:50

RE: Redshifts hateful comment

"It is men. I haven't heard of a woman deliberately organises her life to gain access to kids for sex.

Next time you think a kid needs a hug, try improving your conversational skills. "

I beg to differ, heres a few female teachers for instance

http://www.ishieldthefamily.com/teachers/Picasa/Newindex.htm...

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