The NS Interview: Ayaan Hirsi Ali

“Islam is exempted from scrutiny – and spreading fast”

By Sophie Elmhirst Published 02 July 2010

You grew up in Africa and then moved to the Netherlands. How did that affect you?
It was my first gateway to western life as it is lived, not the way I read in novels in Kenya.

You have written of your traumatic childhood. Is there anything that you owe your family?
I am grateful to my father for sending me to school, and that we moved from Somalia to Kenya, where I learned English. And that my mother has always been a very strong woman.

Your family still lives within Islam. How do they feel about your atheist life in America?
My brother thinks it is very, very bad that I left Islam. My half-sister wants to convert me back; I want to convert her to western values. My mum is terrified that when I die, and we all go to God, I will be burned.

Do you feel that you belong in America?
I'm finally at home. I feel welcome, I feel free.

Which thinkers have shaped your ideas?
Many: John Locke and John Stuart Mill, Friedrich Hayek, people like Karl Popper. Defenders of individualism.

You defend free speech, yet you're under guard because you criticise Islam publicly. How do you deal with this contradiction?
I'm willing to face the continuous stream of threats. It's not the same as my freedoms being taken away. If I'd gone with the man my father chose, I wouldn't be living the way I want to.

Did you intend to become known for your outspokenness on Islam?
I don't define myself by this subject, I just publish and debate other participants' involvement.

In your book Nomad, you talk about the west's superiority as an objective truth.
Freedom, women's rights, prosperity, stability - by all these indicators, the west is superior. That's not opinion, it's basic fact.

What do you want your work to achieve?
I'd like Muslims to look at their religion as a set of beliefs that they can appraise critically and pick and choose from.

Is there anything you like about Islam?
There are things I don't mind - people praying and fasting because it makes them feel good. But there are all these rules governing men and women. And the political dimension: jihad.

What ideology does appeal to you?
Liberal capitalism is not perfect, but compared to the other isms it's far superior.

Do you ever worry that your ideas contribute to mistrust or intolerance of Muslims?
I don't think so. What I do is not create division, but expose the reasoning and the activity, and how persistently it violates human rights.

When you talk about a clash of civilisations, are you trying to be provocative?
To provoke debate, yes. Islam is spreading very fast. Westerners exempt Islam from scrutiny.

You are sympathetic towards Christianity, but doesn't it also have its unpleasant extremes?
Christianity has gone through a process of reformation. Islam has not.

Isn't that an idealised view, given the recent abuse scandals and so on?
If I idealised it, I would be a Christian. Are all religions equally bad? Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins say so. I beg to differ. It doesn't blind me to Christianity's imperfections.

You say western feminists are soft on Islam. Can't Muslim women fight their own battles?
Some Muslim women will say, "You're patronising," but the ones who are locked up, who are forced to wear the burqa, they will be grateful.

Do you support Europe's moves to ban the veil?
No. I'm against the veil because of the idea that a woman is responsible not only for her sexuality but also for that of men.

How do you view the recent events around the aid flotilla sent to Gaza?
Turkey provoked Israel. It is moving away from the west and slowly Islamising.

What are your hopes for Britain's government?
I really hope it will be strong on national security and push back the Islamisation of the UK.

Is there anything you regret?
I regret that Theo van Gogh was killed.

Do you vote?
I just voted in Holland, for the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy [VVD]. Their philosophy is comparable to David Cameron's.

Do you have a plan?
When I took the train from Germany in 1992, I didn't know where my life would lead me, but I'm really glad that I did it.

Are we all doomed?
No. Things can always be improved - and it's worth trying.

Defining Moments

1969 Born in Mogadishu, Somalia
1976 Settles with family in Kenya, having lived in Ethiopia and Saudi Arabia
1992 Political asylum in the Netherlands
2000 MA in politics, Leiden University
2002 First book, The Son Factory, published
2003 Enters Dutch House of Representatives
2004 Receives death threats after broadcast of Submission, her film with Theo van Gogh
2007 Becomes a permanent US resident
2010 Nomad is published

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Tags: Interviews

View the discussion thread.

92 comments

Sat, 2010-07-17 09:32 — Muhammed (not verified)

Triumph and domination are your words and your interpretation of my post which only called for muslims to concern themselves with living in harmony with the majority.
Many would see my post as a call to promote peace,harmony and respect but some are intent in ignoring the facts and creating discord at every opportunity.

Fri, 2010-07-02 20:13 — Ali (not verified)

Hirsi Ali is suffering from Inferiority Complex....let us see how her mentors treat her in the future! She blames Turkey for provoking Israel,,,that shows her own mind is crooked not to understand the issue of Palestine............she is just a stooge of Zionists ..Tine will tell.......

Wed, 2010-07-21 10:34 — Muhammed (not verified)

Well all is ok, Real Islam is good.
Thankyou very much.

Mon, 2010-07-19 11:30 — Muhammed (not verified)

The last two posters are showing their true colours,They display the kind of attitudes muslims have to put up with on a daily basis.
Rather than engage in pointless point scoring with either of you I would take comfort from the fact the majority do not share your twisted and perverted views.
People who share your views used similar scaremongering tactics against another religious minority a few years back in germany.

Thu, 2010-07-08 22:08 — Garry K (not verified)

A link for all faith apologists --- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSLkQnCurgs&playnext_from=TL&videos=bvADU...

Mon, 2010-07-05 02:10 — hala knust (not verified)

how ever invited the western world to teach muslim countries[ iraq, afganestan..]
democracy and impose their values on other socities
and when it's refuesed , you [ the west] accuse muslimes of being backword , barbaric.....etc.
europa neede centuries to evolve and develope why donn't just leave other countries to take their time and do things their way.you know why because of their intresst in the area [ OIL , STRATIGIC LOCATION....]
religion is never the issue, it's a pretext to use the area and diverte poeple from the real reasons
AYAAN IS JUST A TOOL [ WEAK ONE] LAKING REAL KNOWLDGE LESSER THAN EVEN ARGUING WITH HER LET HER TALK BLA BLA BLA....

Thu, 2010-07-15 21:02 — Thomas Devine

Do remember Muhammed, that many people also embrace Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, and secularism. The last keeps no records but is always much stronger than allowed. Many Islamic scholars thought Africa would become purely Islamic, however native faiths are making a comeback and Christianity is growing a a high rate too. There are many cases of converts from Islam in both cases.

India sees far greater growth amoung Christians and Buddhists than Islam, and secular attitudes are growing in popularity.

Islam isn't much of a factor in the USA. Almost all growth is from emmigrants fleeing to America for religious freedom.

Latin America seems to be going Pentecostialist , Bahia, and Afrio-Carribean faiths are doing well too.

Frankly Muhammed, Islam isn't very likely to make relative gains in terms of Earth's population. Further, the Arab lands, Iran, Pakistan, Bangledesh, and Afganistan, all lack fuctional eccology movements. They've got unsustainable populations, ruined water sheds, deterriorating farmlands, and single reasource or otherwise shabby ecconomies. The future of Islam, in its core regions, is likely to be harsh.

I don't think triumphalism is called for.

I suggest winning the good opinions of others. You'll need it!

Fri, 2010-07-02 21:31 — Mick (not verified)

The brainwashing effect of Islam is apparent in some of the remarks on here. It is a deeply-flawed ideology with a deeply-flawed founder.

Wed, 2010-07-07 17:52 — Al (not verified)

Muhammed,

“Watch how many embrace islam and shun the secular way of life”, you say.

Very few so far, I’m afraid. The highest estimate of native Brit converts to Islam from any trustworthy source I have ever seen is 20,000 and in a recent Standpoint piece was put at a maximum of 14,000. Out of the millions of UK Muslims! Not one prominent Brit has converted since Cat Stevens, and how long ago was that?

The only reason Muslim numbers have increased in the UK over the last decade was NuLab’s mass immigration policy, and that is now being reversed. Also, the new government’s reduction in benefits will seriously reduce the Muslim demographic bulge.

So Muhammed, we’re no longer afraid because at last the constant appeasement of Islam and Islamism by the last government is being reversed.

And I wonder how many UK Muslims are now ex-Muslims. I certainly know a few!

Fri, 2010-07-02 21:46 — Thomas Devine

Ayaan Hirsi Ali's knowledge of Islam includes living in a culture were traditionalist religious teacher defend genital mutilation. It also includes the fact of her mutilation.

From what I know of African Islam, Ayaan Hirsi Ali would have been taught to recite large sections of the Koran by heart. Having read the Bible and studied theology, and ending-up Agnostic tending toward Athieism, my experience tells me mere religious study does not a believer make.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali experienced Islam as it is lived in her homeland and in the Netherlands. Her experience can't be sneered at by honest people. Neither is it the last word either on Faith in general, or Islam in particular. But it is a lived experience.

If the people on this board may claim to be progressive in any valid sense of that term, then they should respect both Ayaan Hirsi Ali and her demand to live in freedom.

The modern West won the right to personal freedom against a traditional culture that had no use for it. In the Islamic lands, people are just being to struggle for the same basic rights. How can we turn our backs on them and hold ourselves to be progressives?