Shambo: Sacrificing Hinduism's credibility

51 comments from readers

Champ
01 August 2007 at 14:44

Simply put...replace Shambo the Bull with your child/spouse......life in both are the same.......would you slaughter your child/spouse?

No, you will dig deep into your pockets......raise funds to get the treatment and try to ease the pain and make them better.

Shambo should have been quarantined and treatment provided, who has the right to take any life?

The problem is there are too many Hindu speakers, who do not speak for the Hindu community but are commercially driven

Well-done for speaking up Dilipbhai....

chabria
01 August 2007 at 15:17

Dilipbhai we all thank you for support in this matter

Chitta
01 August 2007 at 18:37

A lot of this makes sound sense

parthasinha1
01 August 2007 at 19:59

The rationalistic angle of the Hindu religion is what we Hindus are proud of. As Swami Vivekananda has said, even those portions of the Vedas that are not rational are to be rejected. Keeping Shambo alive (even in isolation), would have been against the principle of "bahujana hitaya, bahujana sukhaya" (the greatest good for the benefit of the greatest number) as there would have been the risk of infecting other animals and humans in Wales and even a perfect isolation would have prolonged the misery of Shambo and diverted resources for the benefit of other humans and animals elsewhere. To keep Shambo alive under such a situation would have clearly been an irrational act which cannot be supported by Hindu principles for how can irrationalism be supported by a religion professing rationalism? Don't we take antibiotics to kill harmful bacteria? While life taking is certainly to be avoided, rationality must prevail for greater benefit to all concerned. Such Shambo like episodes only further confirm the Western misconception equating Hinduism to cow worship, idolatary and castism.

Jigar
01 August 2007 at 23:10

Mr Lakhani's views are hypocritical especially when there was such a wide support for the Hindu community. He displays his marked ignorance of Hindu values despite claiming to be an expert. In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna asks us to do our duty and not think about the results. The 20,000 Hindus who signed the petition were therefore doing their duty, and unlike Mr Lakhani's claims in his piece above, were not looking for the results.

Simon Kahn
01 August 2007 at 23:14

The author seems bent on maligning a reputable Hindu organisation for some strange personal reasons. The Hindu Forum of Britain represents Hinduism much more than the author of this article, who runs a one-man show. At least the Forum has sought the views of several thousands of people and reflected their opinions. Mr Lakhani thinks rather lopsidedly that he represents the best view of Hinduism, while speaking in such a condescending way about the monks of Skandavale and the champions of Hinduims like Ramesh Kallidai, and thus displays nothing but arrogance and spite - the very anti-thesis of the Hinduism he claims to represent, but does not!

Snigdha Patel
01 August 2007 at 23:22

I must admit that I have met Mr Lakhani once and thought his approach to Hinduism was rather eccentric. He stood in the public arena, crouched forward in a pose that seemed like he was about to leap off the stage and said in a strange gargling voice, "Hinduism means pluralism, pluralism, pluralism. If a child says that his mother is the best in the world, and another says that his mother is better than the first. then it leads to conflict. We must understand that our mother is the best in the world for us. Similarly, we should think that our faith and our views are the best for us, and someone else's faith and views are best for them."

The question that begs attention is that despite running around the country wearing a silly saffron jacket and preaching his version of pluarlism, Mr Lakhani cannot even practice what he preaches.

He cannot accept that the views of the 25,000 Hindus who signed the petition were best for them, and that the views of the farmers were best for them, and the views of the Hindu Forum were best for them, and that his own eccentric views are the best for him.

Instead, he stands here full of arrogance and declares that only his views are the best in the world and the millions of Hindus who campaigned for Shambo were all wrong!

He cannot even consider that each of their views were right for them.

How can such a silly man preach pluralism when he cannot even practise a whiff of it?

Healer, heal thyself, before you start posing and acting like a one!

Tirath Ram Mahadeo
01 August 2007 at 23:27

Mr Jay Lakhani - I can say with sureity you are not an expert in Hinduism. Otherwise how will you not understand that cow protection and go raksha are the pillars of Hindu and Vedic ethos?

If there was anyone who made a mockery of Hinduism it was you. While all other Hindus stood together in a united stance, you wanted to score a few brownie points to get your name in print. And what do you? You go blaming people!

If anyone takes resort in the blame culture, they are surely not a true representative of Hinduism. You would be the last person my children would learn Hinduism from.

Janardan Murjani
01 August 2007 at 23:30

A fair analysis of the issue, and some valid points about the 'greater good'. But I am puzzled about what the greater good is and who will have the authority to decide that a lesser good is of not as much importance. This could lead to potentially dangerous games where man plays God.

Senthil Natesan
01 August 2007 at 23:38

The author has picked up some points from his fertile imagination and tried to pass that off as a version of Hinduism. His arguments do not represent the true Hindu view by any stretch.

He claims that the money spent on the bull should have been spent on saving other cows in India for the greater good.

Will Mr Lakhani, consider stopping medical treatment for a terminally ill relative like his mother or daugther, and take the money he saves to give medical treatment for orphans in India for the 'greater good'?

Of course he wont.

He argues on the basis of his unsupported version of Hinduism that since the life of this bull posed danger to other bulls, therefore for the greater good, we should let the bull die.

By the same logic, if his mother has Bird flu and poses danger to 100s of others, would we send her to be put down in the name of 'greater good'?

Would that be Hinduism or for that matter any other faith?

What I find laughable is that Mr Lakhani is polishing of a rather childish and immature version of Hinduism to the general public, and then claims that other more mature and seasoned experts are naive and simplistic.

What he needs to do i sto probably leave aside his idiosyncracies and actually practise this religion, rather than just preaching it.

Vijay Hirani
02 August 2007 at 00:51

Senthil,

From you comments I get the feeling that you are trying imply that as the bull belongs to the Skanda Vale they can spend as much money as they want to look after him, just as I would spend on my children.

It has already spread to other animals on the farm. Don't forget that they claimed to have isolated it with no effect what so ever on other animals. They have betrayed their own animals

My question is that if it spreads to other farms do they take responsibility and pay full costs or for that matter to all farms in the UK if it is the source of a national wide spread. Or do they say that no, no only my animal counts, the others are the governments responsibility and close their eyes.

Even after treatment a chance exists for the bTB to spread in other animals after while. Also do not forget that as bacteriologist will tell you the more it spreads the more the chance its has to evolve and fight treatments. When you give deadly bacteria a free reign you are playing with fire ...

Perhaps the government to start a NHS like health system for animals which would involve hug sums of money. Clearly the government wouldn't pay as the majority won't accept it.

Would Hindus sell their posh cars and cut down on lush wedding to pay of it. somehow I don't think so.

Chitta
02 August 2007 at 03:22

Jigar

You haven't really said what Duty these Hindus are actually performing by campaigning to save Shambo. If you are saying it is a Hindu Duty to campaign to save Shambo, then why does the Duty end at only Shambo. Why not campaign to save other Bulls.

Sridutt Ramsharan
02 August 2007 at 08:49

This author's points are hollow and unsound. His campaign against the Hindu Forum and its Secretary seems to stem from personal grudges, because I have often heard his thoughts. Somebody who can make his personal grrudges into a debate like this surely loses all credibility and does not follow the Hindu ethos in any way - thereby losing right to tach such a majestic religion. If there was anybody's credibility being sacrificed, it is Mr Lakhani's, and if there was anybody sacrificing Hinduism's credibility, it is Jay Lakhani and his small crowd of motley supporters. Plus - he keeps singling out the Hindu Forum of Britain in all his public sayings, but his own organisation, the organisation that he is a Director of, the Hindu Council UK, has supported this campaign from the start too. Why does he not look at his own organisation before accusing and blaming others? This to me shows that he is not a Hindu in practice, but only in speech. What a shame that a person of such deep personal spite is made to look like an expert that he is not!

Dabhi
02 August 2007 at 09:54

lets Face it what's done is done, We cant change it, By argueing amongst our selves is not going to get us anywhere. From what has happened we should put all the facts and learn from it . Not fight against each other and in any case why do so publicly in news papers make the hindus fight for each other that I am supirior to Jay then Ramesh or vise versa. Hindutva - show Ekta - be civilised - work together not against each other. our Guruji, Mahatma's, Ancestors have given US HINDU such knowledge let us use it, practice make sit perfect. SO LETS LEARN THE LESSON AND GET ON WITH LIFE AND IMPROVE..

Sacheen Nanda
02 August 2007 at 11:26

Dabhi

Please look at the history of the public fight. Ramesh Kallidai never said anything publicly like this ever before against other Hindus. On the other hand, Jay Lakhani, for his own personal reasons, had started a smear campaign and hate against Ramesh Kallidai for the last eight weeks in newspapers. Ramesh, who is a gentleman, had kept quite until now. Only when Jay Lakhani stepped over the mark, did he say anything. Even then, if you read what Ramesh has said, he passed no personal remarks questioning Jay's credibility - he merely states facts - that Jay said this, HCUK did that etc. On the other hand, Lakhani, who as a teacher of Hinduism should have known better, should have risen above petty jealouses, but did he do that? No - he makes personal attacks on Ramesh, who in my opinion at least, is slaving his life off in the service of the Hindu cause, while Lakhan wears his saffron jacket, gallivanting around the country giving his strange talks that many of us find corny.

Chirag
02 August 2007 at 11:35

Dear Snighda Patel

I felt really tickled by what you said about Jay Lakhani because I can relate to what you said too.

This guy came to my school about five years ago (I have since graduated), and did a talk about Hinduism. He kind of stood in a funny posture with knees bent and his body hunched forward, almost as if he was going to leap off the stage and jump at you. Then he pushes his hands in front of him and turned his right hand into a fist, and throughout the talk, he had a frown on his face, and kept looking at his fist. His speech was rather melodramatic and theatrical, and did not sound sincere at all. The worst part was that pupils from other religions came to me later and said things like this bloke made me crack up or that what crap did he say etc. I felt really let down when a girl who used to be my best friend, but is Jewish came said that he thought this guy sounded fake and like one of those tele-evangelist s from America. This really broke my heart, because I am passionate about promoting positive images of Hinduism, and we had sveral wonderful Rabbis, Imams and Priests from other communities, who sounded really pleasant, spiritual, and humorous. The pupils loved them - then we had Lakhani! Someone should tell him how to speak and stand properly - he really is not the right person to represent Hinduism to young people, and he keeps doing it wrongly.

Chirag
02 August 2007 at 11:36

Also - can someone tell him to stop wearing this saffron jacket? It looks cheesy. He should either wear a proper suit or Indian clothes.

Nehal
02 August 2007 at 11:47

Dilipbhai - you have my complete support in this matter. And also, this is about a serious issue, can we not turn it into an attack against Dilipbhai - Thanks.

Blore
02 August 2007 at 13:07

By the way, where was Hindu Forum during mad cow epidemic. Was slaughter then appropriate?

Blore
02 August 2007 at 13:21

Sadly this issue has sparked personal attacks on Dilipbhai.

How many these people have had the courage to stand up to issues of mass conversions of Hindus, caste system, enlightening our youngsters to divinity of man.

Dilipbhai has has had the courage to stand up in face of this Abrahamic onslaught. Well done Dilipbhai!!!

Debate should be around the "issue" .

What about the suffering of cows - cattle dished out on the streets of Mumbai?

Let your frustration be directed to - as Dilipbhai says - "greater good". Take a trip to Mumbai and preach divinity of all living beings - animals and humans.

Chirag
02 August 2007 at 14:47

Blore, what is sad is that it was Dilip (Jay) Lakhani who started the personal attack on Kallidai and Hindu Forum - not the other way round.

What goes round comes round - he should know better about that if he is Hindu!

Don't flex the issue by starting to talk about Lakhani's courage about Abrahamic onslaught! That sounds like a fundamentalist view, not that of a pluralist! You guys make me laugh.

Sacheen Nanda
02 August 2007 at 14:52

Where was the Hindu Forum when mad cow disease struck? Why are you singling out Hindu Forum again? Is it because your mentor Jay Lakhani has an intense dislike for the publicity they get which he doesnt? Why dont you also ask where the Hindu Council UK, of which Lakhani is Director was during the Mad Cow disease? And where was VHP, NCHT, and others? You keep singling out Hindu Forum, because you want to play Jay Lakhani's game of politics in undermining what he considers to be a rival organisation even though they are doing better work than him.

Blore1
02 August 2007 at 16:41

Chirag – issue of conversion etc is in no way fundamentalist. Wake up – be aware of realities in the world outside. Choice is yours – loose your youngsters to other faiths or take up the challenge and stand up against conversions to/from any faith. Just make sure you choose to defend “pluralistic path” – not passively but actively – not through violence or cohersion - but standing up strongly and firmly. You can only practice/preach right from wrong from strength!!

Sacheen – you are again missing wider picture. Point here is it would be good idea to guide the monastery away from cruelty to existing animals on its premises. Take this further – take up the challenge what would be their view on cruelties against animals committed in Wales or being committed in Mumbai? Guide them out of their small cocoon to address atrocities committed in the name of religion in outside world.

You choose to dwell on narrow issue of politics. Read Dilipbhai’s artice in totality – it has a small reference to Hindu Forum. Focus on the issue addressed in the article.

Blore1
02 August 2007 at 17:28

Jigar states "In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna asks us to do our duty and not think about the results."

This he said to Arjuna - to fight in the battlefield for wider good - not to look for moksha by being weak -stand up against wider cruelty for the benefit of good for all.

The 20000 who signed - ask them what they were looking for - wider good or hoping for moksha through inaction?

Blore1
02 August 2007 at 17:33

Simon states "The Hindu Forum of Britain represents Hinduism much more than the author of this article, who runs a one-man show."

Surely - that shows strength of - this one man - Dilipbhai.

Perhaps Hindu Forum should approach Dilipbhai and work for Hinduism rather than political representation.

Blore1
02 August 2007 at 17:44

Ms Patel states "He cannot accept that the views of the 25,000 Hindus who signed the petition were best for them, and that the views of the farmers were best for them, and the views of the Hindu Forum were best for them, and that his own eccentric views are the best for him."

Ms Patel - is it appropriate to keep these 25000 people happy through inaction? and sacrifice life of other animals?

Hindusim is not passive religion - but active - action packed. Active enough to be practiced and preached in the midst of battlefield - Kurukshetra!!

Blore1
02 August 2007 at 17:49

Tirth Ram states "You would be the last person my children would learn Hinduism from."

But please do send them to Hinduism classes elsewhere - you may be surprised to find that these other schools use the material of Dilipbhai. You may also find other schools charge fees and are politically biased towards one or other faith.

Again please read Dilipbhai's article in totality! Hopefully it will enlighten you and your children.

Blore1
02 August 2007 at 17:57

He claims that the money spent on the bull should have been spent on saving other cows in India for the greater good.

Senthi states - "Will Mr Lakhani, consider stopping medical treatment for a terminally ill relative like his mother or daugther, and take the money he saves to give medical treatment for orphans in India for the 'greater good'? "

How sad! You were to personalise such an emotive issue.

The best response would be to ask the question to your own self - what would you do?

You have the priviledge of using your rational mind.

my voice
02 August 2007 at 18:48

“These Hindu bodies are only fighting for special privileges for animals at Hindu temples” says Mr. Lakhani, as if this was a crime.

What does a religion mean in the end, when it is not prepared to do what it can, to keep up its basic values at least in its temples.

This is a serious question of values somehow. I wonder what Mr. Lakhani or anybody else of his opinion would do, if they were to be slaughtered for some “greater good”, instead of being treated, when they are ill (please think about this point very well, even if you feel somehow unconvenient with it).

(some kind of “Irony” now following:)

The money saved by not treating such ill people could be used to save children in africa from dying of Hunger.

(”Irony” end.)

That´s what he suggests in his statement shown above (example with the money, that should be used to save cows in india instead); not for humans but for animals, that is his way of thought. But I think it is completely wrong, this attitude towards life, especially when you are claiming to be a Hindu following sanatana dharma. How can one claim authority in religious questions with such a view om life.

——

Mr. Lakhani should be removed from his post as an educationalist. He should not be allowed "educating" anyone for any longer.

Chirag
03 August 2007 at 01:39

Blore, you guys make crack up. If your Dilipbhai makes personal attacks on Kallidai and keeps pulling Hindu Forum down on BBC websites, BBC Wales and newspapers, thats perfectly OK according to you. But if Kallidai even whispers anything (as far as I know for the very first time ever), then he i making persoinal attacks and creating politics. It is Mr Lakhani who is creating politics, and he is the one who started this slanging match.

On the issue of conversion you have it all wrong Blore - I am equally concerned, but the way you expressed it is laughable.

And you think that L:akhani through his books and talks represents Hinduism? Not at all - through his actions in the Shambo saga, through his petty rivaliries with Hindu Foru,, by playing politics and concusting a smear campaign in the media for ythe lasyt six weeks against respectable Hindus, and then after all that when he bears the brunt, by sending jokers like you and asking you to post on his behalf, he is making a laughing stock of himself. On the other hand, the Hindu Forum, with its campaigns, events, projects and networks has done much more for Hinduism than he has. I know several young people who smirk at his teaching methods. The main thing is that his arrogance comes across in everything he does - that is not the right attitude for teaching Hinduism.

And your condescending attitude to Tiraath Ram begs questions of your arrogance too - asking his children to feel 'enlightened' by this bunkum that Lakhani has written and assuming ythat most people take Lakhani's books to teach is the height of ignorance. There are many schools that teach materials with resources created by VHP, Chinmaya and ISKCON, and they are all ecumenical and non-samparadayic too.

And you accuse Senthil of personalising this issue - but why dont you ask Lakhani why he personalised this issue in the media for six weeks by launching his smear campaign against Hindu Forum and Kallidai? According to you there is one logic for Lakhani, and anothe4 for the rest of the world.

You guys really need to stop posting your childish responses that smack with arrogance, conceit and condescension, and assume that the rest of us know very little about Hinduism. The very fact that you think the 25000 prople who signed up only did so out of emotion just becaause they dont think like you shows how condescending you lot are - you think your view of Hinduism is the best - thus defeating all claim you have for teaching an ecumenical tradition.

HINDU Solja
03 August 2007 at 01:46

I think you guys have all missed the boat on this Lakhani bloke. He can keep his views to himself. But why does he diss other Hindus in the media? It was bad enough watching people dragging Shamboo away to be killed, then this guy leaps on stage dissing Hindu leaders who doing a good job. Who's he anyway? Best service he coulda done woulda been to keep his mouth shut and noyt speak to the media, youngstahs, and anyone else. Someone should tell him that according to Hindooism, SILENCE is GOLDEN.

bradleydean
03 August 2007 at 03:04

As an American Vedantist, I followed this story with both amusement and amazement. Contrary to the bitter commentary of some posters, Mr. Lakhani brings an valuable perspective to this story, salvaging the image of Sanatana Dharma amongst non-Hindu readers. Mr. Lakhani's thougthful comments are entirely consistent with the Shrutis and Smritis. Thank you, Mr. Lakhani.

darbar
03 August 2007 at 12:49

The saga of Shambo the bull being culled is a metaphor of a greater cull which is about to take place.

Just as the government came and took away Shambo the government bodies are going to

come for the real infectious bull and cull it too.

That bull is called Iskcon represented in disguise by Ramesh and Hindu Forum.

Unless Hindu forum ditches Ramesh it will be seen as an extnesion of Iskcon.

Now if you want to know what Iskcon is about visit http://surrealist.org/gurukula/articles/index.html

This is a cult that has numerous cases of child abuse and has now managed to secure funds

under the guise of 'I' foundation with the help no doubt of Hindu Forum for funding a Hindu school.

The Shambo shambles is going to make the government bodies rethink its policy about funding

any such school run by such fanatics who could not give a simple rational response to the issue

of how to save other animals from being infected.

Llolan
03 August 2007 at 14:35

If a religious community, like the temple here or the Hindus in general, does seriously believe in the concept of "the sanctity of life", then they must of course be very interested to keep it up in their temples. If the agenda of another group of people (here the government) is to "kill what is ill", then this has nothing to do with the "sanctity of life", it is a different concept, that can not be cooperated with, unless those believing in the "sanctity of life" want to loose their credibility and make a joke out of what they believe in. What Mr. Lakhani suggests is exactly the latter, and I think he should be seriously investigating how such thoughts could ever enter his mind. And he should not forget, that in the given case, the danger for other animals to be infected with TB, if it really existed here, is not a good reason to give up the concept of the "sanctity of life" , because all those other animals, "endangered" by TB, are to be slaughtered for one or the other reason by their owners anyway quite soon - a much greater "risk" to them than TB. Hopefully people do now better understand where the real "risk" for the life of most animals lies.

The next suggestion of Mr. Lakhani will be that instead of sending our pets to the vet for treatment, when they are ill, we let them kill (by DEFRA or someone else) and donate the money we saved then to some charity in india or somewhere else, that looks after the needs of pets (see his example with the cows in india).

Doesn´t anybody realise the false logic behind these suggestions? Is it about some money here, or about a life in someones responsibility?

My conclusion is, that Mr. Lakhani doesn´t understand the concept or doesn´t believe in it (which is probably the same here).

There was no reason to kill life in this case, but every reason to fight for it. The Hindu Council UK and the Hindu Forum UK should quickly go together and talk to the government about a solution for temple-animals, so that there is at least a few places on earth, where a religion of compassion can be practised.

Blore1
03 August 2007 at 14:58

Llola suggests "There was no reason to kill life in this case, but every reason to fight for it. The Hindu Council UK and the Hindu Forum UK should quickly go together and talk to the government about a solution for temple-animals, so that there is at least a few places on earth, where a religion of compassion can be practised."

Absolutely - all Hindus agree with this. But surely temple boundary is 'wider - universal' rather than a few square metrs around a shrine!!! A Ram Rajya perhaps?

Blore1
03 August 2007 at 23:19

Chirag - trust you have heard of the breaking news today of an outbreak of foot and mouth in Surrey today.

Sad.

Do try to unite opinion to support search for an urget cure or else there may be a another major cull.

Chirag
04 August 2007 at 06:38

Why is it that the Lakhani sidekicks on thie site like Chitta, Vijay and Blore never answer the real questions raised about Lakhani?

Why do they accuse others of making personal attacks, when Lakhani started the whole attack thing in the media? Why do they accuse others of politiciisation, when it was Lakhani who started it with his attacks on HFB, while keeping silent about his own organisation for which he is a Director, the Hindu Council?

In fact, if anything, instead of looking at HFB, if he had been a real Hindu, he should first have spoken against his own organisation, ?Hindu Council.

But most IMPORTANT IS THIS: IF ANYONE HAS SACRIFICED THE CREDIBILITY OF HINDUISM BY SUPPORTING SHAMBO, AND WHEN THE HINDU COUNCIL UK'S SECRETARY HAS TIME AND AGAIN SUPPORTED THE SHAMBO CAMPAIGN, THEN IT MEANS THAT THE ORGANISATION THAT LAKHANI REPRESENTS AS DIRECTOR, HAS ALSO SACRIFICED THE CREDIBILITY OF HINDUISM.

SO WHY IS SHAMELESSLY CONTINUING AS DIRECTOR OF HINDU COUNCIL? IF HE WAS REALLY A MAN OF MORALS, HE WOULD HAVE RESIGNED FROM HIS DIRECTORSHIP AND NOT REPRESENT HINDU COUNCIL ANYMORE. HIS POSITION IS UNTENABLE UNLESS HE BREAKS LINKS WITH HINDU COUNCIL, AS UNTIL HE DOES THAT, HE IS PROVING THAT HE IS NOTHING MORE THAN A POLITICAL ANIMAL.

sangam
04 August 2007 at 12:41

Chirag I second your comment, which to me is the most sensible in this entire message trail. Why indeed does Lakhani continue to be Director of an organisation, that if you apply ths same logic he did for HFB, also took part in the activity to 'sacrifice the credibility of Hinduism'? Hindu Council UK's statements on Shambo are quite obvious: their Secretary has issues many statements supporting the campaign, and even immediately withdrew all public links to Lakhan's one-man joy ride of making a laughing stock of the community in the national media (thankfully though!). Yet, he still continues unabashedly as Director of the Hindu Council UK. Oh - I think I know why - they send out emails to thousands of people to publicise Lakhani's visits to schools and small-time interviews on some local radio station. If Lakhani was really able to lend any credibility to himself (instead of question others) he would have shown that he is a man of principle by resigning from all posts in Hindu Council UK. Sadly, he does not seem to show his principles by action. I used to respect him a lot before - but now I can see how petty and political he has become, and therefore have no wish to consider his work to be benign.

Sangita Dadlani
04 August 2007 at 12:46

I think that Lakhani and Kallidai are both doing a splendid job in their own right. Lakhani's work in education speaks for itself, and Kallidai's work in lobbyibg, several community projects (and Chitta - you are wrong, many projects are launched and they are benefiting the community). What is wrong though is that there are a bunch of people online who seem fastidously arguing in public supporting one over the other and shaming the community with this slanging match. If all of you were in any sense loyal to the Hindu cause, you would discuss this elsewhere - face-to-face - like mature individuals. Please stop this slanging match: there is no need to score a point here. As far as I am concerned both individuals have done some good work and both need to be respected. Let noble thoughts come from all directions. Peace!

Hparekh
04 August 2007 at 15:20

Chirag

It is sad to read your arguements which to me have a lot of spite and acrimony. Any organisation that is mature should be able to handle criticisms, debate and discuss differences. If everybody in the organisation is expected to say the same thing and agree on everything, then the Hindu Forum will be like the Taliban where dissension is not tolerated. If the Hindu Forum whats to be meaningful, differerences are healthy and more important a firm believe in the upholdment of the faculty of reason. Once that goes - hey we might be like sheep, following blindly.

The key issue in this Shambo's story - is the role of rationality and reason. Whether the bull or the cow is sacred, is a personal belief. It is ironic that yesterday in Surrey, there was an outbreak of foot and mouth disease. If this outbreak does not get controlled, the health of the nation is at risk. Is the Hindu Forum going to organise petitions /protest on this? There will be mass culling of animals at the farm. If authorities do not do this, there will be another repeat of the 2001 mass culling throughout the UK.

Chirag step back, the real issue behind all this shambles of Shambo is what is the role of Hinduism - in the future and its relationships to the modern society. Is it going to be perceived to be stuck in this cow and animal worship or do we leverage the knowledge and rational elements of our rich culture and proudly stand shoulder to shoulder with science in the modern society.

If the Hindu Forum can not debate these challenges then it will remain stuck in the medieval age.

Chirag
04 August 2007 at 16:17

Parekh

I think you need to step back. You are making assumptions that Hindu Forum cannot debate - even though they have put up their story here to debate. But on the other hand, you have no answers to Lakhani's untenable position of continuing to be Director of another organisation that has also in his words contributed to the loss of credibility of Hinduism, because of his selfish motives. So just step back, as you advised me.

yoda
04 August 2007 at 18:43

Shree Ganeshaya Namah and Jai Shree Krishna:

I just read many of the blogs/postings ‘ruminated’ by various participants, Hindus or otherwise, regarding how a bull (~aka Shambo) suffering from bTB and the subsequent social and moral dilemma has been/was handled in the past few days by the authorities and institutions involved (government, temple, society and members-at-large from both organizations). Hai Allah!! -- It is indeed extremely alarming to notice that a debate on a bull suffering from bTB in a country that has most recently been ravaged by Bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE), commonly known as mad cow disease, has turned into a “pissing match” between two organizations whose most important objective is to offer a “unified” front, and an unequivocal and “BALANCED” viewpoint on holistic Hinduism to those seeking to learn more about it in the UK and world over.

As a reader maintaining his emotional composure that allows me to rationalize differing viewpoints and then offer suggestions/comments objectively, I must agree wholeheartedly with just two seemingly learned and wise individuals who have posted their views on this recent “Shambo sham”. One such individual is Ushma Williams who has hit the nail on the head with her comments posted on 2nd and 3rd August. And the other individual is Sangita Dadlani who has posted her astute comment on 4th August. So folks on either side of the issue -- it is time to move on! But not before each of you goes back and takes the time to read all the comments posted from both ends of the debate. This is necessary in order to understand how ridiculous and full of “Shambo shit” (pun intended) most of the comments are from either side of the aisle.

It is time for ALL of us to wake up and smell the tea, pastries and cucumber sandwiches! This debate has an underlying tone that happens to be much larger than the comedy blogs around saving Shambo versus culling Shambo, cows and motherhood versus bulls and fatherhood, beefeaters (not the Yeoman Wardens found at the Tower of London) versus vegetarianism, KFC Versus BK, Hindu Council versus Hindu Forum, one’s physical stance versus one’s religious/spiritual stance OR politics versus religion. It is however about putting EVERY important issue up for discussion in its proper CONTEXT and then making a rationalized decision, even if a particular decision is something that we may completely disagree with or vehemently not believe in!

More importantly, Hinduism is probably the only religion in the world that urges one (not in any dogmatic or threatening way) to find a balanced way through EVERY issue in life AFTER rationalizing it with every fiber of our body and mind. If we don’t, then we do a disservice first and foremost to ourselves – and if we can’t be clear about ourselves then we cannot provide that level of clarity in belief and vision to others seeking to learn about us, our spirituality and our beliefs!

Jai Shree Krishna!

Kris
04 August 2007 at 20:13

I think we have to step back and analyse the bigger picture. To see what is best for everyone, regardless of their religion. The fact of the matter is, that cow is sick and suffering from a contagious disease. If that cow is left to roam around, he will infect others. !

Moderation in every belief is needed!

shweta singhania
04 August 2007 at 20:55

I would much rather agree with the insights of some deeply spiritual people than that of Mr Lakhani, who may be able to speak and teach Hinduism, but doesnt seem to be practising it effectively (his public attack on Hindu organisations and individuals, his continuing as Director of an organisation that is idealogically different to his critical stance on Hinduism, and his hunger for publicity are an antethesis to the religion he claims to be an expert of).

I was more moved by this message on the Skandavale website by the monks than by Lakhani's article above:

Many people have been upset and confused by the recent comments made by Mr. Jay Lakhani in reference to Shambo's treatment by the Welsh Assembly Government.

We would like to assure those people that the views held by Mr. Lakhani's will never be ours. We pray that through a deeper experience of the Divine Mr. Lakhani will attain a clearer understanding of the philosophy of Sanatana Dharma.

Sacheen Nanda
05 August 2007 at 11:33

Yes Shweta - thank you for sharing the spiritual message of the Skandavale monks, which to me has much more value than Lakhan's raving and one-sided rant against HFB (while ignoring HCUK as he belongs to that organisation). Similarly, I received this poem written by a very respected Sannyasi who lives and serves in the UK, Swami Nirliptananda of London Sevashram Sangha. I would rather be moved and inspired by people like these than by the Lakhanis whose frialities in the form of envy, politicalness and pettiness are so evident. Please read this poem too:

THE SAMBO SAGA

By Swami Nirliptananda

He stood in majesty and innocence

In glory and in grace.

While like jackals and wolves

His human adversaries

For his flesh clamoured in haste.

The recent development of the Sambo saga

Reminded me of the past,

When a similar incident took place

About two thousand years and more.

It was about the “Sacrificial Lamb”

Against whom charges were laid.

With all intent to remove him

For which money was paid.

Groups of men demanded his death,

innocent as he was.

One authority washed its hands off it,

As was forbidden by the law.

Other men demanded his flesh

Appealed to a higher law.

Some betrayed and others protest

But poor Shambo was laid to rest

Those who loved and cared for him

Knew only too well,

That man made laws are full of flaws

Operated by imperfect men as well

Built a tower in his memory

Proclaiming the injustice and iniquity

So that posterity may not again

Commit such offence against humanity

In ancient times, so we are told

Vulture Jatayu saw the plight

Of helpless Sita carried away.

In courageous battle met his death,

Him we remember to this day.

Dharma teaches us to protect

The innocent, weak and vulnerable,

Not destroying other creatures

Depending on us for security.

As Rama commended his Soul to Heaven

The brave Jatayu lay in peace.

May He graciously remember Sambo,

The victim of man’s iniquity.

Chitta
05 August 2007 at 14:17

Yoda Thanks for this timely intervention. I echo that Ushma has hit the nail on the head. I also agree with Kris and Sangita Dadlani that this is time for reflection by all involved as all the issues are out in the open and very clear. Not a great deal of new value is being added through the ongoing debate. Let us all celebrate this huge achievement in less than a week.

There are many lessons to take back from this highly charged and powerful debate for each of us. Remember two of the qualities of Shiva are Rudra and Ashutosh meaning 'angry one who is easy to appease'. Such teachings may encourage us to engage in constructive (albeit passionate at times) and well reasoned debates to make better sense of our lives. This can only help to improve the environment in which we can all make spiritual progress in our own way. Therefore, first and foremost task for each and everyone of us is the need to reflect on ourselves and apply the learnings from this debate to our own life in the best way we can. Only winners in this debate are going to be who can move on to better things than they did before.

There have also been some clear issues (and even serious concerns) that have been raised in this debate about the 2 key Hindu organisations i.e. HCUK and HFB. These organisations are being run by the same people who were engaging mass recruitment of Hindu youngsters under the auspices of Isckon, VHP and the like few years back. They were exposed through the internet then. They need to take note that there are Hindus who will not stand for organisations portraying to be umbrella bodies and then serving only a narrow sector or abusing the privilege for personal gains or power politics. That kind of attitude brings disrepute to all the Hindus as well as the Hindu Religion. Hindu religion is about fostering values that enable spiritual progress for everyone (even animal life). It is clear that these bodies need to re-evaluate themselves before they are fit to take on this task. Otherwise, they will be made to account through the power of reason. The world of internet has moved on a lot in the last few years and blogs such as this are now a common place. So watch out.

I want to thank Jigar, Simon, Senthil , Chirag, Sridutt, Sacheen for interacting with me. I respect your views. I believe that your heart is in the right place. As Geeta teaches us that practice is the greatest purifier that leads to perfection. Keep going and best wishes.

Finally, I want to say that it is a bit sad that Skanda Vale community of Monks got dragged into this debate. I think their devotion and faith is beautiful and touches the heart. They are also doing good work for their community and I have every confidence that they can now move on. I may not agree with some of their sentiments but hope that they can understand this. Despite these differences I also hope that our paths will cross again in the future but under circumstances that are spiritually more conducive .

Namaste all

yoda
05 August 2007 at 16:34

Jai Shree Ganeshaya Namah!

Jai Shree Krishna!

Thank Chitta for your vote of confidence regarding my earlier blog. And THANKS for your mature comments.

Is there anyone else willing to take a positive appraoch (step back) and end this blasphemous blog and return to being rational human beings?

May I remind everyone to reflect on a couple of lines from the famous song 'US & Them' by Pink Floyd....

" Us and Them

And after all we're only ordinary men

Me (me me me me me) and you (you you you you you)

God only knows it's not what we would choose to do...

Down (down down down down down) and Out (out out out out out)

It can't be helped but there's a lot of it about

With, without

And who'll deny that's what the fightings all about

Get out of the way, it's a busy day

And I've got things on my mind

For want of the price of tea and a slice

The old man died! "

Jai Shree Krishna!

kosinuus
06 August 2007 at 12:57

This is the official statement of the Hindu council UK:

"Hindu Council UK condemns the way the Welsh Assembly has behaved against a great religion, which by taking animals into temple sanctuaries reminds the people to respect all life, including those at a lower level of consciousness than us. The Welsh Assembly is only interested in commercialism, to make sure that Wales maintains its Zero TB certificate for meat production while discarding the feelings of the people affected by this sad saga. DEFRA has over-blown the public health fears and while the High Court Judge gave a secular common sense decision for a reprieve, the appeal court has been given a dis-proportionate lobbying against religious and yet humane sentiments.

DEFRA’s policy to maintain the Zero TB certificate for Wales has far wider undertones in that meat production requires huge resources to feed animals which later become part of the human food chain and whilst we now need to use Mother Earth’s resources in a more cautious manner it would appear that DEFRA remains set on its old ways to promote short term solutions like carbon trade off’s without adopting policies for a more humane and balanced life style of less meat and more vegetables consumption.

The Welsh Assembly’s bulldozing into the temple to kill a Bull in care does not make sense. The Bull has an Atma (soul) and the Monks asked for other options to be considered, more time to consider transporting the Bull to a temple in India but the Welsh Assembly would not hear of their pleas.

The way the Welsh Assembly has been single-minded to carry out the cull at the temple without even talking through various options, it is our opinion, that for the first time here the Government has chosen to desecrate an eminent Hindu temple in Wales. The Monks, while respecting the Appeal Court’s decision, have assured me that they will pray for the Bull’s soul as they will for the Welsh Assembly’s.

Anil Bhanot

General Secretary

Hindu Council UK

"

Why wasn´t this stament launched in the media instead of a single persons view....?

Chirag
07 August 2007 at 01:46

Dear Kosinuus

Thank you for sharing the statement by the Hindu Council UK. To me this proves what a political animal Lakhani is and to what level his lack of integrity is visible. Here is HIS organisation, the one he is Director of, which has supported the campaign. But instead of taking them to equal task, Lakhani singles out only HFB in his story and claims that they 'duped' the public, If anything or anybody, Lakhani has duped the public and is not fit to teach Hinduism or call himself an education expert for lack of integrity. Why did he not use the same brush to say that HCUK too had duped the public? Probably because he uses them. These people are a shame to the credibility of Hinduism.

yoda
08 August 2007 at 17:51

Yo! Chirag Dost-

Sounds to me like you are more of a Mullah than a Hindu and have some JIHAD/FATWA against Lakhani and HC....OR, are you just a difficult person to convince? We Hindu activists/readers realize that you HATE Lakhani's guts. Trust me, we get the message dude…LOUD and CLEAR! There’s absolutely NO need to further pound your personal tirade into every single blog posting about just how much Lakhani has done a disservice to you and the entire Hindu population of the world....not to mention the departed soul of Shambo.

You need to relax boss...take a CP (chill pill) or something. Or you will suffer from ACS (acute coronary syndrome) and will be laid out flat on a gurney and rushed to the nearest Hindu NHS centre. And with the sad state of affairs at NHS these days, Allah only knows if you’ll get the medical service you may require.

Take it easy bro....I am concerned about your health....Shambo is gone and we don't need another human casualty in Shambo's wake! Go out to the nearest pub and get a pint of something….anything….and while you are at it, just chant some calming Sanskrit mantras while at the pub. Just chill bro, CHILL! We love you man!

yoda
20 August 2007 at 15:22

Chirag-

Hey Bhagwaan....you have returned to the picket line! Your e-silence was golden for the last...ummm....9 days. Did you not get enough attention as a child or something? Everyone was breathing easy until you broke the 'e-maun rath' and started e-ranting again!

Chal Dost...Fuggedaboudit ! Maybe Lakhani wants to be the next PM after Gordo....maybe he wants the Queen's attention. Maybe both! Who are you (and we) to judge him? His ambitions are his prerogative. So more power to him. Leave him alone and just relax...take your CPs Chirag! It's not worth losing hair over dead Shambo's carcass...or wot's left thereof (I mean the carcass and not your hair)!

BTW, did you get a pint or two of that "calming" ale at the nearest pub like I had suggested boss? Trust me, beer is completely vegetarian...no living beings are harmed in the making of brew....well, maybe some yeast die in the process...but I won't tell if you won't ! And it's the best recipe for a sanity check...all for just a couple of quids...a miniscule amount compared to what it would cost at NHS to fix your jihad/fatwa-caused ill health. You won't regret the pub visit. Chal Dost, like Nike say...'just do it' yaar! C'mon now deekrah?! Be nice! Give us all a smiley face now....c'mon?!!

We STILL love ya man!