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Treat with extreme caution

Simon Singh

Published 17 April 2008

Homoeopathic medicine is founded on a bogus philosophy. Its continued use is a drain on NHS resources and can endanger the health of patients

Two years ago, a loose coalition of like-minded scientists wrote an open letter to chief executives of the National Health Service Trusts. The signatories simply stated that homoeopathy and other alternative therapies were unproven, and that the NHS should reserve its funds for treatments that had been shown to work. The letter marked an extraordinary downturn in the fortunes of homoeopathy in the UK over the following year, because the overwhelming majority of trusts either stopped sending patients to the four homoeopathic hospitals, or introduced measures to strictly limit referrals.

Consequently, the future of these hospitals is now in doubt. The Tunbridge Wells Homoeopathic Hospital is set to close next year and the Royal London Homoeopathic Hospital is likely to follow in its wake. Homoeo paths are now so worried about the collapse of their flagship hospitals that they are organising a march to deliver a petition to Downing Street on 22 June. Local campaign groups are being formed and patients are being urged to sign the petition.

Homoeopaths believe that the medical Establishment is crushing a valuable healing tradition that dates back more than two centuries and that still has much to offer patients. Homoeopaths are certainly passionate about the benefits of their treatment, but are their claims valid, or are they misguidedly promoting a bogus philosophy?

This is a question that I have been considering for the past two years, ever since I began co-authoring a book on the subject of alternative medicine with Professor Edzard Ernst. He was one of the signatories of the letter to the NHS trusts and is the world's first professor of complementary medicine. Before I present our conclusion, it is worth remembering why homoeo pathy has always existed beyond the borders of mainstream medicine.

Homoeopathy relies on two key principles, namely that like cures like, and that smaller doses deliver more powerful effects. In other words, if onions cause our eyes to stream, then a homoeopathic pill made from onion juice might be a potential cure for the eye irritation caused by hay fever. Crucially, the onion juice would need to be diluted repeatedly to produce the pill that can be administered to the patient, as homoeopaths believe that less is more.

Initially, this sounds attractive, and not dissimilar to the principle of vaccination, whereby a small amount of virus can be used to protect patients from viral infection. However, doctors use the principle of like cures like very selectively, whereas homoeopaths use it universally. Moreover, a vaccination always contains a measurable amount of active ingredient, whereas homoeopathic remedies are usually so dilute that they contain no active ingredient whatsoever.

A pill that contains no medicine is unlikely to be effective, but millions of patients swear by this treatment. From a scientific point of view, the obvious explanation is that any perceived benefit is purely a result of the placebo effect, because it is well established that any patient who believes in a remedy is likely to experience some improvement in their condition due to the psychological impact. Homoeopaths disagree, and claim that a "memory" of the homoeopathic ingredient has a profound physiological effect on the patient. So the key question is straightforward: is homoeopathy more than just a placebo treatment?

Fortunately, medical researchers have conducted more than 200 clinical trials to investigate the impact of homoeopathy on a whole range of conditions. Typically, one group of patients is given homoeopathic remedies and another group is given a known placebo, such as a sugar pill. Researchers then examine whether or not the homoeopathic group improves on average more than the placebo group. The overall conclusion from all this research is that homoeopathic remedies are indeed mere placebos.

In other words, their benefit is based on nothing more than wishful thinking. The latest and most definitive overview of the evidence was published in the Lancet in 2005 and was accompanied by an editorial entitled "The end of homoeopathy". It argued that ". . . doctors need to be bold and honest with their patients about homoeopathy's lack of benefit".

An unsound investment

However, even if homoeopathy is a placebo treatment, anybody working in health care will readily admit that the placebo effect can be a very powerful force for good. Therefore, it could be argued that homoeopaths should be allowed to flourish as they administer placebos that clearly appeal to patients. Despite the undoubted benefits of the placebo effect, however, there are numerous reasons why it is unjustifiable for the NHS to invest in homoeopathy.

First, it is important to recognise that money spent on homoeopathy means a lack of investment elsewhere in the NHS. It is estimated that the NHS spends £500m annually on alternative therapies, but instead of spending this money on unproven or disproven therapies it could be used to pay for 20,000 more nurses. Another way to appreciate the sum of money involved is to consider the recent refurbishment of the Royal Homoeopathic Hospital in London, which was completed in 2005 and cost £20m. The hospital is part of the University College London Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust, which contributed £10m to the refurbishment, even though it had to admit a deficit of £17.4m at the end of 2005. In other words, most of the overspend could have been avoided if the Trust had not spent so much money on refurbishing the spiritual home of homoeopathy.

Second, the placebo effect is real, but it can lull patients into a false sense of security by improving their sense of well-being without actually treating the underlying conditions. This might be all right for patients suffering from a cold or flu, which should clear up given time, but for more severe illnesses, homoeopathic treatment could lead to severe long-term problems. Because those who administer homoeopathic treatment are outside of conventional medicine and therefore largely unmonitored, it is impos sible to prove the damage caused by placebo. Never theless, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence to support this claim.

For example, in 2003 Professor Ernst was working with homoeopaths who were taking part in a study to see if they could treat asthma. Unknown to the professor or any of the other researchers, one of the homoeopaths had a brown spot on her arm, which was growing in size and changing in colour. Convinced that homoeopathy was genuinely effective, the homoeopath decided to treat it herself using her own remedies. Buoyed by the placebo effect, she continued her treatment for months, but the spot turned out to be a malignant melanoma. While she was still in the middle of treating asthma patients, the homoeopath died. Had she sought conventional treatment at an early stage, there would have been a 90 per cent chance that she would have survived for five years or more. By relying on homoeopathy, she had condemned herself to an inevitably early death.

The third problem is that anybody who is aware of the vast body of research and who still advises homoeopathy is misleading patients. In order to evoke the placebo effect, the patient has to be fooled into believing that homoeopathy is effective. In fact, bigger lies encourage bigger patient expectations and trigger bigger placebo effects, so exploiting the benefits of homoeopathy to the full would require homoeopaths to deliver the most fantastical justifications imaginable.

Over the past half-century, the trend has been towards a more open and honest relationship between doctor and patient, so homoeopaths who mislead patients flagrantly disregard ethical standards. Of course, many homoeopaths may be unaware of or may choose to disregard the vast body of scientific evidence against homoeo pathy, but arrogance and ignorance in health care are also unforgivable sins.

If it is justifiable for the manufacturers of homoeopathic remedies in effect to lie about the efficacy of their useless products in order to evoke a placebo benefit, then maybe the pharmaceutical companies could fairly argue that they ought to be allowed to sell sugar pills at high prices on the basis of the placebo effect as well. This would undermine the requirement for rigorous testing of drugs before they go on sale.

A fourth reason for spurning placebo-based medicines is that patients who use them for relatively mild conditions can later be led into dangerously inappropriate use of the same treatments. Imagine a patient with back pain who is referred to a homoeopath and who receives a moderate, short-term placebo effect. This might impress the patient, who then returns to the homoeopath for other advice. For example, it is known that homoeopaths offer alternatives to conventional vaccination - a 2002 survey of homoeopaths showed that only 3 per cent of them advised parents to give their baby the MMR vaccine. Hence, directing patients towards homoeo paths for back pain could encourage those patients not to have their children vaccinated against potentially dangerous diseases.

Killer cures

Such advice and treatment is irresponsible and dangerous. When I asked a young student to approach homoeopaths for advice on malaria prevention in 2006, ten out of ten homoeopaths were willing to sell their own remedies instead of telling the student to seek out expert advice and take the necessary drugs.

The student had explained that she would be spending ten weeks in West Africa; we had decided on this backstory because this region has the deadliest strain of malaria, which can kill within three days. Nevertheless, homoeopaths were willing to sell remedies that contained no active ingredient. Apparently, it was the memory of the ingredient that would protect the student, or, as one homoeopath put it: "The remedies should lower your susceptibility; because what they do is they make it so your energy - your living energy - doesn't have a kind of malaria-shaped hole in it. The malarial mosquitoes won't come along and fill that in. The remedies sort it out."

The homoeopathic industry likes to present itself as a caring, patient-centred alternative to conventional medicine, but in truth it offers disproven remedies and often makes scandalous and reckless claims. On World Aids Day 2007, the Society of Homoeopaths, which represents professional homoeopaths in the UK, organised an HIV/Aids symposium that promoted the outlandish ambitions of several speakers. For example, describing Harry van der Zee, editor of the International Journal for Classical Homoeo pathy, the society wrote: "Harry believes that, using the PC1 remedy, the Aids epidemic can be called to a halt, and that homoeopaths are the ones to do it."

There is one final reason for rejecting placebo-based medicines, perhaps the most important of all, which is that we do not actually need placebos to benefit from the placebo effect. A patient receiving proven treatments already receives the placebo effect, so to offer homoeopathy instead - which delivers only the placebo effect - would simply short-change the patient.

I do not expect that practising homoeopaths will accept any of my arguments above, because they are based on scientific evidence showing that homoeopathy is nothing more than a placebo. Even though this evidence is now indisputable, homoeopaths have, understandably, not shown any enthusiasm to acknowledge it.

For now, their campaign continues. Although it has not been updated for a while, the campaign website currently states that its petition has received only 382 signatures on paper, which means that there's a long way to go to reach the target of 250,000. But, of course, one of the central principles of homoeopathy is that less is more. Hence, in this case, a very small number of signatures may prove to be very effective. In fact, perhaps the Society of Homoeopaths should urge people to withdraw their names from the list, so that nobody at all signs the petition. Surely this would make it incredibly powerful and guaranteed to be effective.

"Trick or Treatment? Alternative Medicine on Trial" (Bantam Press, £16.99) by Simon Singh and Edzard Ernst is published on 21 April

Homoeopathy by numbers

3,000 registered homoeopaths in the UK

1 in 3 British people use alternative therapies such as homoeopathy

42% of GPs refer patients to homoeopaths

0 molecules of an active ingredient in a typical "30c" homoeopathic solution

$1m reward offered by James Randi for proof that homoeopathy works

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66 comments from readers

woodchopper
17 April 2008 at 14:11

A great article. How and why the NHS wastes money on 'treatments' that have no scientific basis is a complete mystery to me.

If people want them they can spend their own money. But the taxpayer shouldn't fund quackery.

If homeopaths and the like really want to be taken seriously they should produce the research to show that it works, rather than relying upon the credulity of the vulnerable.

DrBrianKaplan
17 April 2008 at 15:42

In the article above Simon Singh writes: 'When I asked a young student to approach homoeopaths for advice on malaria prevention in 2006, ten out of ten homoeopaths were willing to sell their own remedies instead of telling the student to seek out expert advice and take the necessary drugs.'

May I state unequivocally that I was called up by a young lady at that time asking me the question that Singh writes about. I told her in no uncertain terms that homeopathy cannot and should not be used as prophylaxis against malaria and that anyone advising her that it could would be giving her dangerous, potentially fatal advice. Therefore Singh's figure of 'ten out of ten' is utterly incorrect, deeply misleading and unfairly damaging to homeopathy and homeopaths. Perhaps the 'student' did not report the doctors who advised her correctly - she did sound a bit disappointed when I told her to take orthodox anti-malarials. I think a magazine of your stature should think twice before publishing articles by this journalist again. I can verify what I have said here because I wrote to people about it at the time.

phayes
17 April 2008 at 17:25

DrBrianKaplan, perhaps the young lady who questioned you and the researcher are not the same person. If they are, which one of the ten reports* contains the misrepresentation of your advice?

Anyway, whatever the facts are about that particular piece of investigative journalism, it will not change the fact that homeopathy is absurd nonsense and that homeopaths give bad medical advice - they could hardly do otherwise without putting themselves out of business!

* http://www.badscience.net/?p=291

bobrayner
17 April 2008 at 17:38

Thanks for a great article.

It's bad that the UK wastes millions of pounds on magic water; it's worse that many of the public can fall for ludicrous 19th-century pseudoscience; but worst of all is that the silly promises of an "alternative" (unencumbered by mere evidence of efficacy) lure many people away from the real health benefits of evidence-based medicine.

AndrewMorrice
17 April 2008 at 18:40

Oh Dear, Here we go again.

It really is hard to know where to start. The same small group of anti-homeopaths trotting out the same old arguments time after time after time. Presumably that if you repeat something often enough everyone will beleive it is true.

So lets just get one point straight. The scientific case against homeopathy is not cut and dried unless you have an intense wish for it to be so. The 2005 paper that triggered this whole campaign is a horribly flawed study, and the Lancet refused to publish any of the very many papers criticising it. Change the topic and most respectable clinicians would run a mile from basing any conclusions on it.

It is astounding that anyone with any scientific training and clinical judgement can conclude that the evidence for homeopathy is conclusive either for or against.

I will be very interested if this same camp of bold campaigners is going to have a go at the "waste of NHS resources" on SSRI antidepressants, much of physiotherapy, much of General Practice, and big chunks of many hospital specialities.

As a GP I know only too well how many gaps in "evidence based medicine" there are and how many patient really do get tangible benefit from "worthless" treatments. Lets hope our politicians and the public spot this for the misguided fundamentalism it really is.

Andrew Stevens
17 April 2008 at 18:51

Hahaha that's great. Its easy to make all sorts of pompous comments until someone publishes the transcript. Just like Billary and her tales of heroism under sniper fire in Bosnia.

I wonder what 'DrBrianKaplan's excuse will be .... Though I guess he will just sulk off.

bobrayner
17 April 2008 at 19:20

AndrewMorrice, I can assure you that the principles of homeopathy are impossible to reconcile with a 21st century understanding of physics & chemistry. Or a 20th century understanding, for that matter. Do GPs have to study (or accept) the theory of "molecules" at some point in their training? I presume so, since it's a pretty uncontroversial cornerstone of the GCSE chemistry syllabus. Hahnemann, though, wasn't having any of it; he thought you could just dilute and dilute endlessly.

And then there's the absurd idea that magic shaking and magic diluting actually makes things *more* potent.

As for the clinical evidence: if you want to get that point straight, perhaps you could explain where you think the big 2005 meta-study went wrong? (Yes, a meta-study; covering hundreds of individual trials). There are *plenty* more than that came from. How about this meta-study? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16376071

If you can think of an excuse to ignore one study that doesn't fit your beliefs, I'll be happy to present another study and another until the cows come home. How about a few Cochrane reviews? There's no shortage of studies. Are they all part of a medical-establishment conspiracy to hide a better method of treatment?

Homeopathy is wrong on both sides: its principles cannot be reconciled with universally-accepted science; and when tested in the real world, it fails. Repeatedly.

Somebody once said "Trust between doctor and patient, and trust between society as a whole and the professional group are fundamental". How can that trust be maintained when administering magic potions that perform no better than a placebo?

Cybertiger
17 April 2008 at 19:46

"But the taxpayer shouldn't fund quackery."

But the taxpayer funds the 'cholesterol-industrial-complex' to the tune of around £2bn per year. Quack, Quack! Methinks you should go back to chopping wood, in the backwoods, funny little woodchopper.

bobrayner
17 April 2008 at 20:02

To Cybertiger: even if that were true, and even if it were bad, would two wrongs make a right?

There are, sadly, plenty of myths and fallacies persisting in this enlightened age. Discarding one of the more harmful ones - homeopathy - can only be a good move.

Cybertiger
17 April 2008 at 20:04

@AndrewMorrice

"I will be very interested if this same camp of bold campaigners is going to have a go at the "waste of NHS resources" on SSRI antidepressants, much of physiotherapy, much of General Practice, and big chunks of many hospital specialities. "

And statins!

Statins are, without doubt, a massive, criminal waste of NHS resources ....

phayes
17 April 2008 at 20:06

AndrewMorrice, the burden of proof rests with homeopathy and whether the one Lancet paper you mention is flawed or not is largely irrelevant. Homeopathy has been criticised - campaigned against, if you prefer - since long before 2005* and it is astounding to me that anyone with any knowledge of science, of homeopathy, and the ability to reason rationally would do anything other than laugh at it. There is a big difference between a counterintuitive notion in science and an absurd one and homeopathy really doesn't merit a second thought (much less the empirical testing it has actually been subjected to). As Petr Skrabanek notes in his Follies and Fallacies in Medicine, "Numerous trials, carried out when it was still thought that homeopathy deserved a fair trial, have failed to substantiate its claims. It is difficult to see why there should be a prima facie case for such inquiry..."** I suspect that those who do not consider the scientific case against homeopathy to be cut and dried have a rather different notion of what science is than I do.

* http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/holmes.htm...

** http://www.medicine.tcd.ie/public_health_primary_care/skraba...

Cybertiger
17 April 2008 at 20:17

"It's bad that the UK wastes millions of pounds on magic water; it's worse that many of the public can fall for ludicrous 19th-century pseudoscience; but worst of all is that the silly promises of an "alternative" (unencumbered by mere evidence of efficacy) lure many people away from the real health benefits of evidence-based medicine."

This pompous prat is a groupie for a sect of 'bad scientists' led by bad science guru Dr Benjamin Goldacre. Dr Ben dabbles with live patients, writes for the Guardian on the fools gold of the Pharma-funded-evidence-for-pills-that-kill. Allegedly Goldacre writes for the New Statesman.

http://www.badscience.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4921

You really couldn't make it up ...

Rich Scopie
17 April 2008 at 20:32

An excellent article - many thanks. As for the homeopathic nay-sayers who've flocked to defend their own particular brand of quackery, the challenge is, as always; show one, properly documented, incontrovertible example (with references) of a non-self-limiting condition that has been cured by homeopathy, and people will start to listen. Until then, accept that you're clinging onto superstition and proudly waving your stupidity in the face of laughing millions like a band of deranged clowns.

Ad hom attacks such as those spouted by Cybertiger bear all the hallmarks of the child in the schoolyard desperately trying to be funny while the whole class points and laughs.

bobrayner
17 April 2008 at 20:40

Cybertiger, I don't mind your insults. However, I suspect the New Statesman or its readers expect reasoned, evidence-based argument.

You don't have any evidence to support homeopathy, because the evidence disagrees with homeopathists' fantasies; a reasoned argument for homeopathy is impossible, since homeopathy defies reason. I suppose the ad hominem fallacy is about as good as we can expect from you.

I'm alarmed that a soi-disant doctor falls for such fallacies. When you feel ready to debate the subject like an adult, I would be happy to join you.

DrBrianKaplan
17 April 2008 at 21:07

@phayes

I'm not interested in what cases this 'researcher' documented. I know what she asked me and what I said. I was unequivocal about their being no such thing as homeopathic prophylaxis against malaria. This 'research' was reported on TV at the time and it was the same 'researcher'. People worshipping at the shrine of scientism should at least follow the rules of their divinity.

Meta-analyses of homeopathic trials are a different matter altogether and dishonest investigative journalism is not acceptable - but I guess you might say that the end justifies the means. I don't.

AndrewMorrice
17 April 2008 at 21:08

I suggest people have a look at the conclusions of the various metanalyses if they want to see just how limited these conclusions are (i.e. they don't give a ringing endorsement of homeopathy either).

I mention the 2005 study because it does seem to have started a ball rolling. Read it, its very interesting. If you can tell me which actual trials the authors compared to draw their final conclusions I'd like to hear about it.

In General:

This is a much more complex topic that it appears if one simply approaches it from the angle if "it can't work".

Just to point out a few common confusions in this whole feild (not confined to homeopathy or even to alternative medicine)

1) absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

2) "no better than placebo" is not "same as placebo".

3) "placebo" = "imaginary/non-existant/worthless"

there are at least 3 different kinds of placebo effect and placebo effects can often be very large and clinically useful, with "active treatment" adding a little more effectiveness over placebo.

4) Randomised controlled trials can answer all clinically relevant questions in medicine.

There are several problems with this idea including the foregoing points about placebo, also problems of "external validity" i.e. the conditions and patients outside trials often don't closely resemble the conditions and patients within trials. In fact no-one in Evidence based medicine thinks RCTs are the answer to everything, but its a nice simple message to put accross to the public. I think this is known as "public understanding of science" but it looks like a simplification of clinical reality to me.

Specifically:

the campaign against homeopathy seeks to destroy the few very small institutions where homeopathy is being practiced by state-regulated health-care professionals, and where patients are protected from flawed advice to dump their conventional treatments or use homeopathic antimalarials. The outcome data for these units have been published and are in the public domain.

Over and out.

woodchopper
17 April 2008 at 21:13

Cybertiger, excellent that you have discovered the internet and all of those 'links' from one 'website' to another.

Anyway, in my cabin in the deep dark woods I get to look at other sites. You may be interested in a BBC investigation broadcast a couple of weeks ago into homeopaths recommending their remedies to someone worried about malaria. Yes, they are still doing exactly what Simon Singh writes about here.

There's no doubt about what they said because it was videoed and broadcast. Anyone who has any doubt about the irresponsibility of advising people to take homeopathic remedies instead of malaria prophylaxis can see for them self here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTMH5s04ibE

pv
17 April 2008 at 21:24

show one, properly documented, incontrovertible example (with references) of a non-self-limiting condition that has been cured by homeopathy, and people will start to listen.

Beat me to it. The thing is that after two hundred years of meticulous record keeping and documentation, not to mention curing everything with the exception of death, homeopaths can't produce one single shred of evidence to support their claims. And these claims become wilder and more fantastic as each year goes by. Cures for Aids, cures by email, cures by CD, cures by thinking about it. Meanwhile...

Back in fantasy land Lionel Milgrom is busy trying to construct a mechanism for a post hoc explanation of how and why homeopathy works, using Quantum Electro Dynamicbable to bamboozle homeopaths and their supporters into not deserting their sinking shipwreck. Suddenly nitwits who don't have the capacity to get to grips with elementary school science will be spouting stuff about weak interactions and particle spin - it's because "Milgrom says so", like "Samuel Hahnemann said so" before. Anyway, who needs evidence when you have your Organon bible, undying faith and a load of quasi-medical theologians to keep you on the straight and narrow (and their hands on your pockets)?

Rich Scopie
17 April 2008 at 21:28

@AndrewMorrice

You quite correctly point out that:

'"no better than placebo" is not "same as placebo". '

It's not. "No better than placebo" is "as good as, or worse than".

Also, again, absence of evidence is not, as you correctly point out, evidence of absence. However, in the 200 years since homeopathy was invented, you'd think there'd be some good evidence by now, wouldn't you? And frankly, before anything is purported to be a medical treatment, shouldn't there be some evidence that it actually works?

Your point about randomised controlled trials is misleading; you're implying that somehow homeopathy is above the best design system for a scientific trial that we currently have. Well... Why don't you tell us exactly how we can test homeopathy to find this elusive evidence, eliminating all bias?

So, in the absence of evidence, or any sensible notion of how to test homeopathy, we can conclude that it is, in a most hopeful scenario, as good as placebo.

Alternatively, maybe it really can't be tested because it's carried out by intergalactic pixies from the ninth dimension of Spong.

pv
17 April 2008 at 21:34

AndrewMorrice wrote:

"The outcome data for these units have been published and are in the public domain."

You wouldn't like to do the decent thing and point us to them, would you? Or do you think it's sufficient just to make the assertion?

Now, what about that incontrovertible example of a non-self-limiting condition being cured by homeopathy. You know, documents, references... I've been waiting for months for this having posted the request on the Internet last year. Still no takers then? Filing system a bit disorganised? It's not too much too ask is it?

phayes
17 April 2008 at 22:45

DrBrianKaplan, no - the ends do not justify the means and Singh/Sense About Science had no need to and should not have exaggerated or concealed any part of their findings (if that is what they did). After all, even if they consulted a hundred homeopaths and it was only the first ten who gave the dangerously poor medical advice, that is still unacceptable.

AndrewMorrice, the best protection the state could give us aganst the flawed advice handed out by quacks of any sort would be to simply outlaw such behaviour. Regulating them, building specialist hospitals for them, providing them with 'science' degree courses etc. is elaborate folly.

gimpy
18 April 2008 at 08:34

DrBrianKaplan, I am curious why you didn't mention this apparent discrepancy between what you claim and SaS claim at the time of broadcast?

Regardless of this minor issue it is clear that there are a great many homeopaths out there who believe in homeoprophylaxis are are barely regulated by their so-called-societies. Indeed many of these lay homeopaths have a deep distrust of modern science, medicine and GMC regulated Doctors such as yourself. May I suggest that the Faculty of Homeopathy should spend some time and energy disassociating itself from the non-medically qualified homeopaths if it wishes to maintain at least some semblance of respectability for the profession.

SRP
18 April 2008 at 09:37

Singh says he's spent two years studying this subject? Maybe he'd like to pick up his phone and find out exactly what NHS services are delivered from the refurbished RLHH. He might be surprised.

Cybertiger
18 April 2008 at 09:40

@bobthebadbuilder

“Cybertiger, I don't mind your insults. However, I suspect the New Statesman or its readers expect reasoned, evidence-based argument. “….I'm alarmed that a soi-disant doctor falls for such fallacies. When you feel ready to debate the subject like an adult, I would be happy to join you.”

This sort of pretentious crap makes me angry.

The 'bad science' cultists …

http://www.badscience.net/

… whinge on about the evidence base and the expense of homeopathy and yet can't see that the ‘Emperor Statin’ is without clothes - and is standing up in front of the good lady NHS, stark, bollock naked. And there are many other upstanding little emperors strutting their stuff on the taxpayer funded stage.

SRP
18 April 2008 at 09:44

"Second, the placebo effect is real, but it can lull patients into a false sense of security by improving their sense of well-being without actually treating the underlying conditions"

You mean like painkillers and antidepressants, Simon?

SRP
18 April 2008 at 09:47

"it is impossible to prove the damage caused by placebo. Nevertheless, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence to support this claim."

So anecdotal evidence has some value after all??

:)

bobrayner
18 April 2008 at 11:37

cybertiger, how do any of those non-sequiteurs help your point?

Why do you repeatedly refer to the badscience forums as though it's a bad thing? Perhaps I should link to the anti-vaccine forum where your childish attacks are widespread, and where comments like mine are swiftly deleted from those forums; fans of such quackery know how easily their fantasies are undermined by skepticism, reasoning, and evidence.

Here in the real world (or, at least, a New Statesman comments page), things are a little different. You can't delete my comments here simply because they disturb your fantasy. In the real world, evidence is king. Homeopathy lacks evidence: several high-quality studies have shown that it's no better than placebo; homeopathic theory is incompatible with universally-accepted science; and Benveniste's experimental results were easily debunked (though he got a couple of Ig Nobel prizes for his trouble). Homeopathy is quackery.

I'll finish with the words of professor Edzard Ernst: "Study after study has shown it is simply the purest form of placebo. You may as well take a glass of water than a homeopathic medicine".

ali jennings
18 April 2008 at 11:41

The debate about medical evidence for CAM misses the key point that the major contribution made by CAM practitioners and Integrated Medicine doctors is in meeting the emotional, social, and spiritual needs of patients which otherwise get medicalised within the current health system, at enormous cost to the tax payer. Added to this are the huge benefits to patients and society of self-help approaches which have been shown to improve coping, quality of life and survival, the evidence for which is often to be found in the psychology and psycho-neuro-immunology, rather than medical journals.

IH practitioners also play a major role in preventive medicine, helping the public to take personal responsibility for their health and well-being. As such, we have a vital role to play in helping to avert the looming health crisis due to Western lifestyle which health economists warn could bankrupt our government and insurance companies in 20 years if current rates of chronic illness continue.

Dr Rosy Daniel BSc MBBCh

VelvetUnderground
18 April 2008 at 12:14

On a thread on the JABS forum, one poster advised a worried parent to withhold medication (antibiotics) and switch off wireless devices - including baby monitors. Despite being a doctor, Cybertiger saw no reason to make any comment on this reckless and foolish advice. I think that is appalling behaviour from a medical professional, but you can judge for yourselves by following one of these links:

http://www.jabs.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1138

http://jdc325.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/an-open-letter-to-jab...

http://jaycueaitch.wordpress.com/2008/02/01/jabs-and-public-...

Cybertiger
18 April 2008 at 12:53

"I think that is appalling behaviour from a medical professional ..."

The less than VelvetUnderground (aka 'pv' or something like it... snigger) is a very tedious, specious little lady and a very bad scientist (snigger again). A 0.5ml jab of Gardisil, repeated 6 months later (private script for £161 plus mark up) should do the trick - and that is my professional advice. Homeopathy certainly won't work for this stage of advanced disease.

bobrayner
18 April 2008 at 13:11

Perhaps a professional would be able to spell "gardasil".

Certainly a professional would realise that evidence-based medicine is more valuable than insults, fallacies, and irrelevance.

Now, can we try to move the discussion forward? Where's your evidence? What's your reasoning? We're still waiting. Just step into the ring.

Cybertiger
18 April 2008 at 13:59

"Perhaps a professional would be able to spell "gardasil". 2

Bobtheunprofessionalbuilder has been googling and getting nowhere ... lol. Do you need a rescue remedy, bob?

PS. Where's our precious Velvet. Perhaps she's gone underground.

VelvetUnderground
18 April 2008 at 14:41

Among other things, Cybertiger has claimed the following:

That I am also known as PV

That I am a lady

That I am a very bad scientist

Cybertiger had no evidence for these claims and is, in fact, wrong on all counts. But that's not unusual for an anti-vaccination lobbyist is it?

Interesting to note that Cybertiger recommends a vaccine for HPV to someone who is not at risk of infection with HPV. Was that a tongue-in-cheek remark Cybertiger or should I continue to worry about your competence as a doctor?

Instead of writing abuse about my being tedious and specious, would you consider explaining why you ignored reckless recommendations to switch off baby monitors and withhold antibiotics? You haven't dealt with any of the points I made - just made assumptions about me. Most of which were rude and/or factually incorrect. Is that what passes for intelligent discourse in your 'alternative' world?

Cybertiger
18 April 2008 at 16:14

@VelvetUnderground

"Instead of writing abuse about my being tedious and specious ... "

.... and precious ... with all your velvet preciousness ... I feel sure you'll get on famously with that bigbobthe builder ... what with the way he can burrow down below (snigger, snigger).

Rich Scopie
18 April 2008 at 16:37

@Cybertiger

Do you actually have anything sensible to contribute to this, or just sneering, posturing and a few irrelevent attempts to derail the whole thread?

Ah. Thought so.

David Colquhoun
18 April 2008 at 16:56

As one of the signatories of the 2006 letter to which Singh alludes, I'd just like to point out that I have very often commented on bad trials of conventional drugs on http://dcscience.net, as has Ben Goldacre on http://badscience.net.

It may be hard to believe for somebody who is living in the fairy-tale land of homeopathy, but some of us have a genuine desire to find out what works and what doesn't. That is equally true whether its a homeopathic sugar pill or an SSRI.

I have often been struck by the close similarity of the tactics used in the alternative business (a huge and very profitable industry), and by the regular pharmaceutical industry at its worst. The difference of course is that the pharmaceutical industry at its best has brought about real benefits.

May I assume that the homeopaths who have written here to defend their early 19th century view of medicine insist on a homeopathic anaesthetic when they visit the dentist?

Cybertiger
18 April 2008 at 18:12

We appear to be currently witness to plummeting vaccination rates and the establishment crucifixion of Andrew Wakefield and his professorial colleagues. Could there be a link to homeopaths and other naughty alternative quackers? Prof Ernst certainly thinks so,

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/eletters/336/7647/754#193078

PS. A bit rich that spelling ... but then the Scopie guy is a total irrelevency.

curiouscat
18 April 2008 at 19:23

YAWN!!!!! So boring to hear the same old stuff......

Interesting that no one responded to SRP's 'original' comments isn't it?

Looks like there's a script for some and when points are made that aren't on it they just get ignored?

VelvetUnderground
18 April 2008 at 20:31

".... and precious ... with all your velvet preciousness ... I feel sure you'll get on famously with that bigbobthe builder ... what with the way he can burrow down below (snigger, snigger)."

I've never seen a homophobe descend into madness on the internet before. Thanks for sharing the experience.

Cybertiger
18 April 2008 at 21:56

I feel sure that the anti-homeopathic duet of bigbobthebuilder and the velvetsubwayqueen will be very happy ... and make lots of little homopathic babies ... who will have all their evidenced-based vaccinations including the HPV one.

bobrayner
18 April 2008 at 23:02

Homeopathy and vaccine-refusal often go hand-in-hand. Vaccination sits uncomfortably with homeopathy's holy text, the Organon, which says:

"But to use a human morbific matter (a Psorin taken from the itch in man) as a remedy for the same itch or for evils arisen therefrom ... Nothing can result from this but trouble and aggravation of the disease."

Vaccination has eradicated (or greatly reduced) several awful, widespread diseases; it has prevented literally billions of nasty infections. However, some reject vaccination because they can't square it with the Organon. Just like some people reject biology, geology, cosmology &c because these sciences provide evidence that disagrees with bits of the old testament.

There's an example in today's news:

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/health/orissa-homeopath-...

It's about time we overcame these silly old superstitions. Homeopathy is quackery.

vioxx
19 April 2008 at 08:46

Denial of adverse events from vaccines, wifi, GM and other corporate money spinners usually goes hand-in-hand with rubbishing complementary medicine, homeopathy in particular. Attempts to conceal the agenda (e.g. by pretending Sense about Science is independent of its industrial funders) have for the most part deceived the media.

salil
19 April 2008 at 11:15

Since Lancet has been brought up as some sort of an authoritative source, while unrelated to this topic, may I point out this:

http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/databomb/index.htm

If this is the level of research (thanks to inherent editorial biases at Lancet) I don't know why I should take its other editorial decisions - such as not publishing a study skeptical of homoeopathy - seriously. Lancet's activist editors need to learn the basic rules of journalism first.

bobrayner
19 April 2008 at 12:57

Perhaps vioxx could elaborate on the "adverse events" from vaccines, wifi, and GM; and explain how this is connected to homeopathy. I'm particularly interested in the wifi side, since this has been the target of much scaremongering despite there being *no* good evidence that wifi is a health hazard. None.

The most obvious connection is that the "wifi hazard" and "homeopathy" are both widely believed despite both being evidence-free and utterly ridiculous. Once you've fallen for one silly myth, it may be easier to fall for a second or a third; perhaps that explains why some homeopaths fall for absurdities such as antimatter provings [1], or that treatments may be transmitted over a phone line [2], or paper remedies (ie. effecting a cure merely by writing down the name of a treatment and keeping the paper in your pocket) [3]

There's no need to focus on "sense about science"; there has been plenty more research into homeopathy by many parties - including those funded by the homeopathy industry. Have a look at the evidence.

The evidence is clear: homeopathy is quackery.

[1] http://www.hominf.org/posi/posiintr.htm

[2] http://www.geocities.com/healthbase/homeopathy_benveniste.ht...

[3] http://www.otherhealth.com/homeopathy-discussion/1962-paper-...

Cybertiger
19 April 2008 at 17:20

"The evidence is clear: homeopathy is quackery. "

Oh, no, oh, dear, bignobrayner is still quacking on about the evidence for no quack homeopaths.

PS. If it farts like a duck, ducks like a quack, weaves like a fish, then it’s obviously a bobnobrayner.

vioxx
19 April 2008 at 18:21

Bobrayner - thanks, you prove my point. Your denial that a lucrative technology like wifi can cause harm is strongly correlated with your denial that homeopathy is more than a placebo. As for wifi, rf and emf, I expect you're right that industry funded studies produce 'no evidence'. For an alternative review of the evidence on safety: http://www.bioinitiative.org/press_release/index.htm

Cybertiger
20 April 2008 at 09:55

@bobrayner

"Homeopathy is quackery."

Malcolm Kendrick has looked at the true benefits of the statin group of life savers. The cost of statins to the English taxpayer in 2006 was £625m - the single greatest drug expenditure in the NHS.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/eletters/336/7635/100#187483

"In short, if a fifty year old man asked you how much longer he could expect to live if he took a statin for thiry years you can inform him 'just over two weeks - max.' "

The statins are clearly life saving drugs. Of course, there is no evidence for such a degree of life saving efficacy in the homeopathic remedy. I agree, homeopathy is pure quackery. It's a no brayner! Time to ditch the quacks.

PS. Please note that Dr Malcolm Kendrick wrote the book entitled 'The Great Cholesterol Con' which says it all for homeopathy.

Cybertiger
20 April 2008 at 14:49

@VelvetUnderground

"Among other things, Cybertiger has claimed the following: That I am a lady That I am a very bad scientist "

When preciousVelvet makes her way out of the underground, I feel sure she'll stop the statin, that 'elixir of a long and precious life' and switch her allegiance to the homeopathic quacks.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/334/7601/983

christobel
21 April 2008 at 11:56

I have waded through many of the comments, but feel the main principles of Homeopathy have not been addressed, nor understood.

Homeopathy works on treating the INDIVIDUALITY of the patient and their particular symptoms and NOT the disease. If two patients present with a diagnosis of Arthritis, then a Homeopath would not prescribe 'for' the Arthritis, but for the patient incorporating all his symptoms not just the arthritic ones. So patient A's pain is better once he starts moving about, whereas patient B is only better lying down, if you just treat the pain, then both those patients will get a different remedy, however the whole person should be treated, and this is where homeopathy parts company with conventional medicine which can only address symptoms.

In all the arguments about the placebo effect, no one ever mentions that Homeopathy is a very effective treatment for animals. So if it is entirely a placebo effect, how do you explain that an animal responds beneficially, since as far as we know they have no pre-conceived belief system?

The fact that so many people 'believe' that Homeopathy helps them surely speaks for itself. If it is a placebo effect, then this is short-lived and after a time, patients would realise that they were not getting better and move on to something else.

If you have a bad fall or some kind of physical shock, even after dental treatment, just try an Arnica 30. You dont have to believe in it, it just helps with the shock of the fall and the pain. Just try it!

Jam you finger in a door, the pain is excruciating, just try Hypericum 30 or 200 and you will be amazed at how quickly the pain is relieved and the shock dissipates.

VelvetUnderground
21 April 2008 at 12:08

Still flogging a dead horse Cybertiger?

I find your comments not just rude, but actually incredibly creepy. You are most certainly not the type of person I would like to have an appointment with to discuss my health. Are you still working as a doctor? Do you have any patients left? Has anyone ever told you just how creepy you appear to others?

You make my skin crawl.

VelvetUnderground
21 April 2008 at 12:14

"Jam you finger in a door, the pain is excruciating, just try Hypericum 30 or 200 and you will be amazed at how quickly the pain is relieved and the shock dissipates."

I injured my wrist on Saturday, Christobel and I was amazed at how quickly the pain was relieved and the shock dissipated. I hadn't taken hypericum or any other homeopathic remedies (or non-homeopathic remedies). Can you explain this?

VelvetUnderground
21 April 2008 at 12:30

"@VelvetUnderground

"Among other things, Cybertiger has claimed the following: That I am a lady That I am a very bad scientist "

When preciousVelvet makes her way out of the underground, I feel sure she'll stop the statin, that 'elixir of a long and precious life' and switch her allegiance to the homeopathic quacks.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/334/7601/983"

Untruthful, irrelevant and boring. If you are typical of the anti-vaccination lobbyists and homeopathy apologists then the skeptics must be absolutely delighted.

Cybertiger
21 April 2008 at 13:59

I see the VelvetSubwayQueen has crept out from under her stone - and here's me thinking she had eloped with little hobnobrayner to live together as homopaths happily ever after.

"If you are typical of the anti-vaccination lobbyists and homeopathy apologists then the skeptics must be absolutely delighted."

And what relevance, pray, has that little rant to do with the uselessness of statins? Of course, there is a link between the poverty of statins and the impoverishment of vaccines - the BigFarmer is cultivating mandated universal human sufferage on the expectation of a hugely rich harvest.

VelvetUnderground
21 April 2008 at 14:37

"And what relevance, pray, has that little rant to do with the uselessness of statins?"

And just how relevant to the original was your babbling about statins?

You aren't just a creep, you're a hypocrite and a fool. Par for the course at JABS, but you stand out like a sore thumb here. Loon.

lipstick
21 April 2008 at 16:21

Am I being stupid? What is 'homoeopathy' as it is referred to throughout, and what are its similarities to homeopathy?

lipstick
21 April 2008 at 16:25

Just wondering why the two names :)

C. MEE
21 April 2008 at 16:49

Simon Singh (advocate of the scientific method) begins his attack on homeopathy by telling us that "two years ago a coalition of like-minded scientists wrote an open letter to chief executives of National Health Service Trusts"...Does he ask us to accept that their beliefs are ultimate truth because (a) they are shared by a like minded group of scientists, (b) they are the product of a coalition of scientists, (c) their beliefs have matured, like wine for all of two years?

I would remind Simon Singh that there is a huge number of like-minded patients, and I am one of them, who have had relief from illness for many years, relief which was not available via the standard NHS path.

But there is a need for care. To accept the dictats of such coalitions blindfolded .. "trust me, I'm a scientist"... could be a dangerous way to go. I offer the argument at present raging over climate control as an example for when, (not if), the "let's try it and see" like-minded coalition has its way the damage to the planet may be irreparable.

That will of course, with the destruction of mankind, settle the question of Homeopathy.

ps. I offer myself as proof that homeopathy works so, please, may I have that $1,000,000 now?

VelvetUnderground
21 April 2008 at 17:28

"I offer myself as proof that homeopathy works so, please, may I have that $1,000,000 now?"

I think Randi might take issue with your use of the word 'proof'. Why not try anyway though? You have nothing to lose and $1m to gain...

Seriously though - have you ever wondered why no-one has taken Randi's million? I mean, if homeopathy really works it should be fairly easy to demonstrate shouldn't it?

http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007/12/simple-challenge-to-... has a challenge specifically for homeopaths. Updated here: http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007/12/100-homeopathy-chall... - and it is now 19 weeks without anyone taking the test. What are all the homeopaths scared of?

Homeopaths have issued similar challenges to skeptics - http://semiskimmed.net/22.html#lycopodiumchallenge2 - but in this case, the challenge was accepted. The homeopathic remedy failed to have any effect.

vioxx
21 April 2008 at 21:05

"Seriously though - have you ever wondered why no-one has taken Randi's million?" Indeed I have ...

http://psipog.net/print-beware-pseudo-skepticism.html

m3dorrh1num
22 April 2008 at 12:58

The article is based on a forgery. The signagtories of the letter to PCT's mentioned at the start f this article did not have permission to use the NHS logo and forge and impression that this was an official letter. They have been reprimanded but not charged. So this casts doubt on the ethics of these campaigners against alternative medicine.

Selina, Dover
22 April 2008 at 13:50

I have seen that Ernst has emailed directly some of my colleagues with his critiques of homeopathy. Is this something that a professional and serious researcher spends their time doing? I think not.

His claims to scientific rigour are spurious and this recent 'spamming' activity does nothing to demonstrate integrity.

Ernst is clearly on a serious money-making expidition!

Ralf Jeutter
22 April 2008 at 14:34

It seems Singh and Ernst have a book to promote. What often gets lost in the process are the truth and ethics:

Re ethics: This is what the Department of Health had to say about the infamous letter by Ernst, Baum et al to the Primary Care Trusts, which did a lot of damage to homeopathy: 'A document entitled 'Homeopathic Services' which was distributed to Directors of Commissioning earlier this year has caused some confusion because it carried the NHS logo. We would like to clarify that this document was not issued with the knowledge or approval of the Department of Health and that the use of The National Health Service logo was inappropriate in this instance.' (http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Bulletins/...)

More erthics (and some truth): The Shang trial (2005) which has done (again) a lot of damage to homeopathy, the authors identified 110 relevant studies and then excluded all but 8 of them from the final analysis - and declined to name them (research misconduct is the term, I think). The paper also failed to mention that the institution from which it originates had expressed serious misgivings, and considered that the evidence did not support the findings. (point made by Dr Damian Downing - simply google 'Lies, damned lies and ...').

Truth: 'The National Library for Health section on homeopathy currently contains 32 systematic reviews and meta-analyses of its use in a wide range of disorders [...] Of the 32, 7 report a statistically significant clinical effect from homeopathy, 6 show a non-significant trend in its favour, and 3 show no effect; 16 concluded that there was 'insufficient data' to draw a conclusion either way. So of those that felt able to draw a conclusion about homeopathy, 81% found it beneficial.' It seems what evidence there is points in favour of homeopathy. It also seems that we need more good research.It appears Ersnt and Singh make a living fromCAM, and find it more profitable to knock it. A clever move, because it makes more headlines. For proper research we have to look somewhere else (Dr Iris Bell and Harald Walach spring to mind).

phayes
24 April 2008 at 12:11

Ralf Jeutter, you are entitled to your eccentric interpretations of the evidence and opinions on where to look for "proper" research but please try to leave out the exaggerated smears and groundless accusations.

I have a copy of the document sent with that "infamous" letter in front of me now. It appears to be a suggestion for a commissioning of homeopathic services policy document for the recipient NHS Trusts to use. It is in the form of a template with many fields to fill in. Above the offending NHS logo (which many Trusts use as part of their own logo) are the words, "Insert your NHS Logo Here".

http://www.dcscience.net/homeopathy_paper_for_nhs_commission...

The idea that this minor infraction of DoH rules amounts to unethical behaviour is ridiculous and, in view of the behaviour of many homeopaths, blackly ironic.

Similarly distasteful is your false accusation of "research misconduct" against Shang et al:

http://apgaylard.wordpress.com/2007/11/28/the-myth-of-the-se...#more-47

AndrewMorrice
24 April 2008 at 23:14

Its sad, but unsuprising to find on returning to this thread that things have got so disjointed, polarised, and often bad-tempered.

just picking up on a few points people are making (and sorry I'm not an avid reference recorder or link-storer, but I am doing my best to objective and honest here).

There are somewhere in the region of 160 RCTs of treatments involving "homeopathic remedies". Most of these do not look at the kind of individualised one: one homeopathy that happens in clinics. This is not very much evidence when you are discussing a system of medicine as a whole, and a lot of it is of too poor a quality to support the kind of robust conclusions usually sought in meta-analysis. So much for the "mountain of evidence". The number of times this small data base has been re-analysed is in danger of exceeding the number of primary studies available. Colleagues involved in research tell me that it is, despite this, become hard in the atmosphere fostered by Prof's Baum and Ernst, Drs Goldacre and their colleagues, to get approval for any further meaningful research in this area.

I would not accuse Shand-et-al of misconduct: I just think they felt their conclusions were self-evidently correct, as did the journal publishing them, and so some odd features of the paper were not picked up and sorted - like not stating which studies were selected for the "headline" analysis, and why. The real problem is the that the Lancet didn't publish any of the letters (many from authors holding academic posts) pointing out flaws in the trial - in the end the Journal of Alt and Compl Medicine published them so that they would at least appear somewhere in the literature.

The original design was very interesting indeed, it matched studies of similar types for the same conditions one homeopathic, one conventional in pairs. The trouble with this approach was that it showed (astonishingly) that the (poor) homeopathic studies were of higher quality, and that the conventional and homeopathic treatments were broadly equivalent in effectiveness. The authors then went on to do their lopsided comparison of the unidentified "highest quality papers".

You are on safer ground with the other meta-analyses, eg: the 2 Linde et al papers, Hill 1990, Kleijnen 1991, Cucherat 2000, and Jonas et al, 2003. Only one of these concluded that homeopathy was simply no better than placebo without any qualification, and several tentatively conclude that there is evidence for effectiveness over placebo. If you want references I can only point you to the Faculty of Homeopathy website: http://www.trusthomeopathy.org/case/res_toc.html. Most contributors to this thread may feel this is too biased a source, but it will give you references.

Intrestingly the NHS Centre for Reviews and Dissemination Effective Health Care 7:3 2002 which is widely held up as a "negative" review of homeopathy actually recommended "no change" i.e that the evidence could not support cutting or expanding NHS homeopathy services.

Bear in mind also that we don't pool all studies of drugs we can lay our hands on and meta-analyse the whole lot to measure whether conventional pharmaceutical interventions work. It is a somewhat non-sensical thing to do in my mind. The trouble is there aren't enough RCTs of homeopathy to support condition by condition meta-analysis.

The DBRCT model for this however suggests that our research hypothesis is that the actual medicine is the only active treatment. The argument can be made (and its often impatiently rejected) that homeopathy is a complex intervention. In practice, what we need to know is does the whole approach overall help patients?

Lastly. I think the policy implication of Singh and Ernst's line are very interersting. There are lots of treatments on the NHS, aside from CAM (which in truth uses an utterly tiny part of the budget (homeopathy in total accounts for 0.02% of spend for instance)). If we buy their argument they should all be cut. All of them.

This is the logical extension of what they are saying.

This would be a leaner and meaner NHS. If your condition fails to respond to Evidence Based Medicine, or you have contraindications or can't tolerate the EBM options; then tough, that's it, you're on your own.

Personally I am comfortable with trying to help such patients, particularly since 2/3 of my homeopathically treated patients report moderate or marked improvement in their condition: which has often continued unabated for years up to then. Its not "proof" but practically speaking the patients are better, and from their perspective they really aren't too bothered by all the arguments that fill this thread. It is also startlingly inexpensive treatment compared to may of the conventional options.

Oh, and by the way, many of them tell me they thought it couldn't possibly work.

phayes
25 April 2008 at 00:01

AndrewMorrice, lying to your patients or bolstering the lies they tell themselves in order to maximise the efficacy of placebo involves a (to say the least) tricky ethical evaluation. Nonetheless, if you have come to the conclusion that it is ok to do so - fair enough. But please don't try to pretend to me or to anyone else numerate and scientifically literate enough to appreciate that the theoretical principles behind homeopathy are utter nonsense, that the empirical evidence - unsurprisingly - fails to support the hypothesis that this ridiculous drivel actually does work.

phayes
25 April 2008 at 00:10

Oops! Replace "fails to support" with "does anything other than fail to support" in the above.

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