Interview: Eva Schloss, Anne Frank’s stepsister

No more nightmares: Jemima Khan talks to Eva Schloss.

New Statesman
Eva Schloss at the opening of the new exhibition 'Misschien trekken ook wij verder' ('We too might move on') at the Anne Frank museum in Amsterdam. (Photo: Getty Images)

You published your account of the Holocaust in 1999. Why did you wait so long?

When I came back in 1945, I was desperate to talk about what had happened. But people were not interested. The war was finished, people wanted to move on. In 1986, when the first Anne Frank exhibition came to London and Ken Livingstone had organised it, he said, Eva will want to say a few words. I was in shock but eventually everything that I had suppressed came flooding out.

Had you ever talked to your close friends or your family about your experiences?

No, not at all, certainly not to my family because it was too painful. But of course Otto Frank [Anne Frank’s father] became my step-father and he was my children’s grandfather so my children knew the story of Anne Frank.

You knew Anne Frank when you were children. What was she like?

I knew her from 11 to 13 and at that time she was not so special. I didn’t have any inkling that she might write a diary with such meaning. She was a child, interested in clothes and fashion, in hairstyles, in boyfriends.

When did you first read her diaries?

At a time when I was still very, very bitter – I was a miserable teenager and I must say at that time I thought, it’s the same thing I went through; I wasn’t particularly impressed.

How did you get to a point of acceptance about the Holocaust?

I was full of hatred and discrimination, and not just against the Germans but against the world because I felt everybody had let us down. I was suffering from my own hatred and it was Otto Frank who told me, you know if you go through the world hating people, you will be suffering, not the people you hate. So slowly, I started to accept what had happened.

Have you been back to Auschwitz, where you were imprisoned?

In 1995, Dutch television contacted me. There was going to be a big memorial service in Auschwitz with all the heads of states from the western world and they wanted to do a programme with me there. Going back was horrific. After that, I have never been back. Now, it’s become a sort of a tourist attraction.

How did you find your family and friends, when you came out?

My mother was with me. In 1945, we were liberated but the war wasn’t finished, so we travelled for four months with the Russians till we ended up in Odessa. When the war was finished, we came back through France to Holland and there were transports coming back from Germany, people who had survived. It was a very sad period; people asking have you been in this camp, have you met this person, do you know anything? We didn’t hear anything till we got a letter from the Red Cross saying that both my father and brother had died in the camp. I got over my own suffering but that loss is something I will never be able to forgive.

Would you mind describing the moment when you last saw your father?

My mother had been selected by Mengele to be gassed. For three months I thought I had lost her and I was in a very bad mental and physical state. I was on the point of giving up. One day a couple said somebody is here to see you and I went out of my barracks and there stood my father with his SS boss. I don’t know how he was able to get to see me – it was unbelievable – and he told me that my brother was still OK. I told him that my mother had been killed. Now I feel very guilty because I think that probably made my father give up. He came three times to see me and then I never saw him again. I was 15.

When did you find out your mother was alive?

When the Germans realised the Russians were approaching, they evacuated most of the camp. It wasn’t so strict any more; you could go around from one camp to the other and people told me they’d seen my mother alive. At first I thought they told me that to cheer me up but it was true and then we were reunited. She was very weak, so this was the point when I became an adult. I had to look after her.

What happened to your faith during your years at Auschwitz?

I came out of Auschwitz an atheist; I lost faith in everything, in humans, even in God, because the suffering was unbelievable and if we are supposed to be God’s people, how can he let this happen without helping? But the birth of my first daughter was a miracle and I started to believe, perhaps God did protect me and I started to have faith again.

Why did you decide to keep your tattoo?

I’m glad to have it because schoolchildren always want to see it. I say to them it’s very important for you to remember because when we are not around in 20 or 30 years, a new generation of youngsters will have to keep the story alive and say, yes, I’ve seen somebody, I’ve seen their tattoo.

Do you have nightmares about Auschwitz?

I used to for many years because you had to suppress it and then it came out at night. But since I began to speak out, I don’t have nightmares any more.

Eva Schloss is the author of “Eva’s Story” and “The Promise” (Puffin, £5.99)

Click here for a longer version of this interview

29 comments

KFKF's picture

Eva Scholz's story will be, no doubt already has been, used in "Holocaust Education", yet what does it tell us about the Holocaust as coventionally defined? Very little, nothing in fact.

Take each of the personalities in turn:
- Anne Frank was interned for six months in Auschwitz. As a 14-year-old girl from a bourgeois background she was presumably of little use for hard labour and would not possess valuable trade or professional skills. She was then evacuated to Belsen where she died of typhus in the horrendous epidemic that hit that camp at the end of the war.
- Anne's sister suffered the same fate as Anne.
- Anne's father was allowed to remain in the hospital at Auschwitz where he awaited the arrival of the Russians.
- Anne's mother is believed to have died of disease during the epidemic, but in another camp.
- Eva's father is believed to have died in a camp, but there has been no suggestion of foul play.
- Eva's brother: as her father.
- Eva lived for an unspecified period in Auschwitz despite. presumably having no more qualifications than Anne. She survived her captivity.
- Eva's mother, like Eva, survived her captivity.

So, if this is to be considered a microcosm of the Holocaust, we have 8 people of whom 3 survived 3 died of disease and 2 died of uknown causes but probably disease. The only one to have been, allegedly, selected for gassing somehow managed to avoid it, probably due to that legendary German inefficiency.

A pretty awful picture. All concerned deserve our sympathy and there is plenty to justify calling it a holocaust, but it is not "The Holocaust" as promoted. People who could not work were kept alive. At least 3 of the 8 survived. All the deaths appear to have been from natural causes, not murder, and no sign of a gas chamber anywhere.

reinenVernunft's picture

The "Holocaust" now enjoys a status that is more like an official state religion than the commemoration of an historical event.
In Germany, even questioning some of the more arcane minutiae (chemical traces in a gas chamber, authenticity of certain documents) of the dogma of the six million can earn a scholar or dissident a hefty prison term.
Historical truths, like any others, do not fear scrutiny or impartial investigation, and do not need the coercive arm of the state to act as a gendarme to protect them.
The fact is that the historical narrative which is propping up the current dystopia of the globalized, debt enslaved and multi-cultural Europe and its American appendix is hanging by the thinnest of threads.
The so called "Final Solution" was emigration, and later, resettlement of the Jews outside of Europe, not their physical extermination.
There never was an order given by Hitler, or any other functionary of the Reich, calling for the murder of all Jews.
There have been no mass graves or traces of remains found which would corroborate anything like the millions of alleged extermination victims.
The "assembly line of death" (mass gassings and cremations) as described by the eyewitnesses- including inmates and contrite SS members- are for the most part, an utter logistical impossibility.
All of the so called "extermination camps" were located in territory subsequently occupied by the Soviets, who were wont to commit atrocities- such as Katyn- and blame them on the Germans.
Must the Shoa business go on?

reinenVernunft's picture

The "Holocaust" now enjoys a status that is more like an official state religion than the commemoration of an historical event.
In Germany, even questioning some of the more arcane minutiae (chemical traces in a gas chamber, authenticity of certain documents) of the dogma of the six million can earn a scholar or dissident a hefty prison term.
Historical truths, like any others, do not fear scrutiny or impartial investigation, and do not need the coercive arm of the state to act as a gendarme to protect them.
The fact is that the historical narrative which is propping up the current dystopia of the globalized, debt enslaved and multi-cultural Europe and its American appendix is hanging by the thinnest of threads.
The so called "Final Solution" was emigration, and later, resettlement of the Jews outside of Europe, not their physical extermination.
There never was an order given by Hitler, or any other functionary of the Reich, calling for the murder of all Jews.
There have been no mass graves or traces of remains found which would corroborate anything like the millions of alleged extermination victims.
The "assembly line of death" (mass gassings and cremations) as described by the eyewitnesses- including inmates and contrite SS members- are for the most part, an utter logistical impossibility.
All of the so called "extermination camps" were located in territory subsequently occupied by the Soviets, who were wont to commit atrocities- such as Katyn- and blame them on the Germans.
Must the Shoa business go on?

Herbert's picture

'All of the so called "extermination camps" were located in territory subsequently occupied by the Soviets, who were wont to commit atrocities- such as Katyn- and blame them on the Germans.'

Fascinating double-think. The extermination did not take place and it was the Soviets who did it. That's what you're saying, isn't it, young Adolf?

DuDochNicht's picture

My life has coincided with the Conversation about this, what is so damaged in our souls? I remember: as a child thinking that all of the silence and anger of the 60s was certainly caused by the "questionaire", it asked Wessies 131 questions to ensure their readiness for Full Western Democracy. Nope, the process was over in a few years, and was remembered in part for causing internees to wear funny clothes... I remember: the BundesKids (Wessies) in the 70s were desperate to know just what the hell had happened, they had been told very little, the ruins of the Camp system were as mysterious to them as Mayan pyramids. Explaining Dad's behavior was not required for them, just a brief explanation covering why half of the country is missing, and why their culture is the World's synonym for bad.
I remember: OssieKids were completely different, by the 70s they were jaded about the whole of history. The Soviets did not even bother with a questionaire, Nazis were put right back into positions of authority. Trust me, the transition to the western ways is baffling, and only in the West was there a special fascination for the hitlertime.
I remember: Operation Paperclip families. For one dollar a day, and no formal status in America, selected engineers and scientists worked for Nasa and the US Department of Defense. I have noticed that now, 67 years later, they are still sometimes condemned. 131 questions answered carefully would not have helped. I remember Huntsville engineers singing the Horst Wessel Lied for US Astronauts in Florida. The children of these immigrants now number in the thousands. I remember being shown the US space program during the Apollo program, they were building Moonships for America.
I married a girl who had not been taught that she was Jewish, she had recreated the entire religion and culture of her ancestors from books. Life is still an adventure with her, we have a Daughter now, Miriam. We have a new world. Neue Heimat.

Franz Holtzhäuser's picture

Hello folks,

I wonder only one thing right now, and have no idea if this has been asked - as I have no time to read the previous comments right now. So, onto the question!

Why was her mother selected to the gas chamber, but not gassed? This is a crucial detail - but I suspect we never will get a reply to this question, not a truthful one anyhow!
I believe somebody may answer "by sheer providence!", yeah right ;-)

Faithfully,
FRANZ

DuDochNicht's picture

Franz, an old friend who's father had been taken then had seen out the war desperately clinging to the fact that his father was assumed by his classmates to be a another soldier father. We have found the Deathbook page, Mathausen, dead by 1300 hours, natural causes. Either vague Socialism or Naturalism got him condemned and killed. The BRD government has not repatriated all of the "traitors" yet. They have made progress since '92, still my friend's lost father died dishonored, and we are yet waiting. Lives back then were sometimes bafflingly fast. My father's nightmares were of the debris, some of it human, which his airplane flew through as he attacked ground targets. In the 50s he found that he had attacked a cousin. My stepfather's nightmares were of being trapped in U175, sinking fast while under attack. My governess had been raised in SS camps, her nightmares were of starving. Our family had been very involved in getting people out of the way of hitler, biologists, physicists, business partners, the von Trapps. Captain von Trapp had only his family, his clothes, and a cigarette case engraved with the locations of ships which he had sunk in the Med. My uncle put the case in his pocket, and walked into the US with him. As a schoolboy, I remember Hasso von Manteufel complaining about how the trains were unavailable at times, hurting his whole "Panzer Graf" effort. He used to grumble about Keitel putting him on hold, while his tank crews went unsupplied. Spooky old Manteufel would have been happy without the Camp system to get in the way of his war. Between you and me Franz, G. Grass needed to offer to serve on the Isreali atombomb carrying U Boat he fears so much. He was willing as a boy to risk his life on the Great Admirals fleet, now he just writes criticism of Israel and Germany. Was gesagt werden muss is that we are in this together. Alles.
Ernst

jankaas's picture

i see, so because not every single Jew was gassed there is no Holocaust?
you also find it fitting to post a wink eye emoticon and inject a bit of comedy into this subject matter. this marks you out as an offensive twat.

Franz Holtzhäuser's picture

I'm sorry but you're wrong. I am a man, see? I do not have a vagina, if this interests yourself.
I also think calling somebody a "twat" is not productive for you. Name-calling is not a valid argument.
Why did you not answer my question, Jankaas? Why was the mother not thrown into the gas chamber despite being selected for gassing? Please provide an answer without calling me names.
If you like comedy I suggest you read about Fred Kort. There's a video of this joker, see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1y__Qves_s

I'm not trying to change the subject, but you brought up comedy. So this is for you, my friend.

I await in awe for your answer with regard to my question about the mother.

Faithfully,
FRANZ H.

jankaas's picture

you are most certainly not a man Franz. and thanks for confirming you are just another petty little Holocaust denier. you are dismissed.

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