The NS Interview: John Varley
“If you’ve got thin skin, you shouldn’t run a bank”
- John Varley, chief executive of Barclays
How do people react when you tell them you're a banker?
Not a lot of spontaneous applause.
Do you like being a banker?
Yes, I do. I like leading a big organisation, knowing that what we do, if we do it well, makes a difference to the 50 million customers we serve.
Have you had threats or abuse from members of the public during the financial crisis?
Yes, but that goes with the turf. If you've got thin skin, you shouldn't be the chief executive of a listed company, still less of a bank.
Do you believe bank bosses have anything to apologise to the British public for?
I've said in public many times during the past three years there is much to be sorry about. There have been many players in this drama, but it's clear that the banking industry got a lot of things wrong. As a chief executive of a big bank, I acknowledge that and am grateful that governments, through the injection of taxpayers' money, rescued the global banking system.
Why do you reject the proposal to split retail banking from riskier investment banking?
I don't think that the size of a bank is a good indicator of its riskiness. Nor do I think that combinations of activity, by definition, create risk - they very often diversify risk. At the heart of our ability to generate profits for our shareholders is the diversity of our business portfolio, which creates advantages for customers and shareholders alike.
Big, sophisticated banks can help society tackle some of the biggest issues that confront it - like the privatisation of welfare provision, the funding of health-care programmes, the development of infrastructure and even the tackling of carbon emissions. I don't believe legislation that was regarded as fit for purpose in the 1930s to deal with a very different economic crisis would be helpful to the world as it emerges from this crisis in 2010.
Do you understand why people are so upset about bankers' pay and bonuses?
I have to be sensitive to what the public thinks, because a lot of taxpayers' money has been put to work in the banking system. And if the pay of nurses and teachers is frozen because of the economic crisis, then the public is going to look carefully at what bankers get paid. Last year, Barclays profits were down 16 per cent, but total compensation was down about 50 per cent. That's an indication that we are sensitive to this subject. But pay judgements are difficult. I am obliged, as chief executive, to field the very best people I can by paying fairly. But be clear - we're seeking to pay the minimum consistent with remaining competitive.
Will the bonus tax really drive talented bankers abroad? Isn't that just scaremongering?
The banking industry is increasingly global. Talent is mobile. So if the best talent feels compromised by an unlevel playing field, then, yes, it will go. And it will not be good for the economy if talented people conclude they're better located in Madrid, New York, or Singapore.
Will Barclays be paying out a multibillion-pound bonus pot in 2010? Or will you defer it?
When we make our decisions about bonuses for 2009 - and we've not made them yet - three things will guide us. First, how we've performed during the year: we have a pay-for-performance culture. Second, we must pay in a way that serves the interests of our shareholders. Third, we must comply fully with the new FSA code on compensation. As we have done in the past, but more so, a lot of the compensation of senior executives will be deferred, with the objective of further aligning their interests with the interests of our owners.
Do you think the public will ever regain respect for banks (and bankers)?
Banks and bankers must show humility and acknowledge what's happened. That said, they've got to be good at what they do. If the global economy is going to grow, then that has to be facilitated by banks doing their job well. If banks are successful, they invest in business; they lend; they employ a lot of people; they pay dividends; they pay tax. Society benefits as a result. I don't expect these things to be much recognised in this environment. But in time they will be recognised again.
What would you like to forget?
There are a few days over the past three years that I would like to forget.
Has this recession harmed you personally?
If you're a shareholder in a bank, as I am, the experience has been a bad one over the past three years. So of course I've suffered economically.
Are we all doomed?
I'm looking out of my office window in our building in Canary Wharf. Below me there's a skating rink. Some of the skaters are skating elegantly, some tentatively, but they're all getting round the rink. That's how we all are, really. We're not doomed! We're getting round the rink.
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