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Never criticise the family

Geoffrey Wheatcroft

Published 02 October 2008

Zionism is one of the most contentious ideas, freighted with emotion by both partisans and detractors. Now some Jews are speaking out, breaking a long self-censorship

Never criticise the family

A Time to Speak Out: Independent Jewish Voices on Israel, Zionism and Jewish Identity

Edited by Anne Karpf, Brian Klug, Jacqueline Rose and Barbara Rosenbaum

Verso, 310pp, £9.99

Journey to Nowhere: One Woman Looks for the Promised Land

Eva Figes

Granta Books, 184pp, £14.99

Plowshares Into Swords: From Zionism to Israel

Arno J Mayer

Verso, 432pp, £19.99

The Returns of Zionism: Myths, Politics and Scholarship in Israel

Gabriel Piterberg

Verso, 298pp, £16.99

On the Other Hand

Chaim Bermant

Vallentine Mitchell, 352pp, £17.95

Before Edward Gibbon began The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, he had thought of writing another - a history of England in his own time. But he shrank with terror from a subject where every reader is a friend or enemy, "where a writer is expected to hoist a flag of party, and is devoted to damnation by the adverse faction". Gibbon's words will haunt anyone who writes about Zionism, and they are brought to mind by a group of new books. The whole topic of Zionism, its causes and consequences, is a minefield. No other subject is so fraught emotionally, as well as intellectually, so rarely discussed sine ira et studio.

This is explained in part by the bullying which tells non-Jewish critics of Israel that they are anti-Semitic, and Jewish critics that they are self-hating, but there is more to it. Given the circumstances in which the Jewish state was born, in the shadow of the most horrible catastrophe in Jewish history, it was difficult - if not morally impossible - for most Jews to disown the newborn state. History was rewritten to evade the inconvenient fact that when Theodor Herzl wrote The Jewish State in 1896 and launched his audacious project, most of the Jewish people were either indifferent to political Zionism and such a state, or fiercely hostile.

In recent years there has been a significant turn in opinion. Younger readers may not remember that there was once a time when Israel was deeply admired in the west. Since the 1967 Six Day War there has been a reaction, slow at first and then accelerating, which has found eloquent expression among Jews themselves, as various as the "independent Jewish voices" collected in A Time to Speak Out, or Eva Figes's memoir, which is also a polemic against Israel, or the Israeli scholar Gabriel Piterberg, or the American historian Arno Mayer, or the late and much-missed Chaim Bermant.

Throughout, there runs a theme, of resentment at having been expected to conform to a party line, or a code of omertà. "What is intolerable," writes Gabriel Josipovici, "is your father telling you never to criticise the family because a family must always present a united front." And Jacqueline Rose addresses head-on "the myth of self-hatred". But Mike Marqusee, in defending left-wing Jewish critics of Israel from the charge of anti-Semitism, raises another problem. One can't deny that the cast list here is politically predictable, and three of these books come from the same publisher: Verso is the publishing arm of the New Left Review, which is symptomatic, and a pity, however much that list should be commended for issuing valuable books.

As an old-fashioned philo-Semitic assimi lationist (if I may say), I have felt strongly for some time past that it would be disastrous if any large public controversy were to develop in which all, or even most, Jewish opinion were on one side and all non-Jewish opinion on the other. In June 1967 the British, like the western Europeans and Americans, Jew and Gentile alike, overwhelmingly supported Israel. By July 2006, however, when Israel attacked Lebanon, British Jews who supported Israel were painfully isolated. The division of opinion throughout the world that summer went roughly speaking like this. On one side: Israel, the Bush administration, the United States Congress, much of the Diaspora and Tony Blair. On the other side: everyone else. In one poll, only 22 per cent of British voters thought that the Israeli response was justified.

And although Jewish opinion is itself divided, as these books demonstrate, it would be even more lamentable if this question were to become one of left against right. Such liberal western Jews as still feel fondly towards Israel cannot be pleased to notice that her strongest defenders are now on the intransigent right, not only in America, but among the dismal Anglo-neocons who have infiltrated the Tory party. Nothing could be healthier than for an intelligent and honest conservative critique of Zionism to appear, or rather to reappear.

As it is, Jewish anguish can take dispiriting forms. Eva Figes is a much-admired novelist, but Journey to Nowhere is not a book that is easy to warm to, written as it is with such anger and bitterness. Figes's family were Berlin Jews who managed to escape to London before the war, leaving behind Edith, their housemaid, also Jewish. She miraculously survived, made her way to Palestine, where she was friendless and unhappy - German Jews were not beloved of many other Zionists - and then came to London, where she told young Eva her extraordinary story. Figes weaves this into her own disillusionment with Israel, but with a boiling rage that does not much enlighten us. "Zionists and Nazis had more in common than is generally acknowledged," she writes. But maybe not that much, as even critics of Israel might agree.

In Plowshares Into Swords, Arno Mayer gives a sweeping and often illuminating overview of the story of Zionism. He tries to rescue forgotten heroes such as Martin Buber, Judah Magnes and Yesha yahu Leibowitz, who lived in the Holy Land and were deeply absorbed in Jewish life but who strongly opposed the chauvinistic and brutalising tendencies of Zionism. It might seem paradoxical that Mayer also voices some admiration for Vladimir Jabotinsky, the founder of right-wing ultra-nationalist Revisionist Zionism (and still a hero to Tzipi Livni, who seems likely to become prime minister of Israel shortly), but it is not so strange, given Jabotinsky's intellectual honesty and clarity.

Despite the immense time and space devoted to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in the news media, Jacqueline Rose has observed that very little is ever written about Zionism as such. In The Returns of Zionism, Gabriel Piterberg tries to make amends with an analysis of the intellectual and literary origins of the Zionist ideology. He begins unpromisingly by saying that other studies "adhere to an Idealist causality, because they privilege not only the ideational sphere but also the intentions of the Zionist settlers", whereas his own book will insist "on collapsing several alleged dichotomies".

Must you? There is a curious cultural pheno menon on display here. Piterberg pays glowing tribute to Perry Anderson, thanked by Mayer also. But it was Anderson who, eight years ago, acknowledged that the only starting point for an honest left as a new century began was "a lucid registration of defeat", while also lamenting the execrable prose of too much Marxist-academic writing. Indeed so, and the two may be related. Especially in America, such writers are as remote from the real life of their country as 4th-century monks or hermits in the desert. Hermetic is the word for so much of their discourse, almost as though they don't want anything they write to be accessible to the mere multitude.

But Piterberg's book proves to be very well- informed, and even fascinating. He has examined numerous Hebrew texts unknown in the west, to friend and foe of Israel alike. There is a particularly striking section on Chaim Arlosoroff, one of the leaders of Labour Zionism, who was much cleverer, though much less ruthless, than his rival David Ben-Gurion. Arlosoroff was assassinated in Tel Aviv in 1933 and it has always been supposed that his killers were Revisionists of some stripe or other. Ever since, it has been highly convenient for Israeli Labour and its western allies to make Labour look better by portraying the Revisionists as quasi-racists and fascists.

And yet it has always been clear to anyone who looked harder that what really distinguished Jabotinsky from Ben-Gurion in their attitudes to the Palestinian Arabs was that Jabotinsky expressed himself publicly with a frankness that Ben-Gurion thought inadvisable. As Piterberg shows, the martyred Arlosoroff himself rejected joint organisation with Arab workers, and expressly compared the Zionists with other European settlers elsewhere.

When scholars such as Mayer and Piterberg write about Zionism as a colonial project that assumed an inferior place for the Arabs, they tend to adopt a now-it-can-be-told tone, as though these are startling revelations. But they only seem so because of the prolonged, and truly weird, attempt by some Zionists, especially Labour Zionists and their fellow-travellers, to deny the obvious truth. Martin Peretz, the former owner of the New Republic in Washington and a most voluble champion of Israel, proclaims risibly that "Israel was an anti-imperialist creation" whose "decolonisation struggle looks very much like other decolonisations, in the Indian subcontinent, for example", and insists that the Jews who settled in the Holy Land "were not colonialists". Well, that's what they looked like to the Palestinians - and that's what both Jabotinsky and Arlosoroff were happy to call themselves.

But if the problem on one side has been denial, on the anti-Zionist side it's prochronism. Herzl and his colleagues were not cruel or rapacious men, they were men of their age. Political Zionism was born in the heyday of European nationalism and European colonialism, and it would have been surprising if it had not echoed both. Zionists from the 1890s stand accused of ignoring the wishes and interests of the indigenous inhabitants, but what thought did the British at that time give to the wishes and interests of the people they ruled in Asia and Africa - or the Americans to the wishes and interests of the Indians of the West?

Something else is missing. All of our contemporary Jewish critics of Israel focus their attention on the Palestinians and their treatment. It is a fine thing that such voices should have set aside group loyalty and returned to the noble Jewish traditions of justice and individual conscience. And yet one would never guess from these books that the passionate Jewish opposition to Zionism once had nothing to do with its effects on the Arabs and everything to do with its potential effects on the Jews. Claude Montefiore was president of the Anglo-Jewish Association and an exceptionally proud and pious Jew. He entirely rejected, as many Jews then did, what he called the fundamental Zionist propositions that the Jewish people were "a 'nation', or might profitably become a nation".

Along with David Alexander, president of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, he wrote to the Times shortly before the Balfour Declaration in 1917, denouncing any proposal to invest the Jews in Palestine "with certain rights in excess of those enjoyed by the rest of the population". This could only "prove a veritable calamity for the Jewish people", for whom, wherever they lived, the principle of equal rights was vital. "The establishment of a Jewish nationality in Palestine, founded in this theory of Jewish homelessness, must have the effect throughout the world of stamping the Jews as strangers in their native lands," he wrote, "and of undermining their hard-won position as citizens and nationals of those lands."

Those prophetic words might have been understood by Chaim Bermant; and On the Other Hand, a collection of his pieces, is a reminder of what a sane as well as witty voice was lost when he died ten years ago. Brought up on a shtetl in Latvia, he came with his father, a rabbi, and family to Glasgow just before the war. After it, he repeatedly visited Israel and almost settled there. He hated the Revisionist right - he mentions how in Jerusalem in the early 1950s he shunned Kapulski's cafe, "the hangout for the Begin crowd" - and later became a ferocious critic of the settlers in "the Wild West", as he nicely called "Judaea and Samaria".

While he knew all about the contradiction in "religious Zionism", Bermant was more indulgent towards his Labour friends, and overlooked that other contradiction - what George Steiner has perceptively called Zionism as a secular-political movement invoking a scriptural-mystical justification "to which it could not, in avowed honesty, subscribe". Or as the Israeli writer Amnon Raz-Krakotzkin, cited by Piterberg, puts it, "There is no God, but He promised us the Land" (thank the Lord, wherever he may be, that Zionism has not extinguished another great tradition - Jewish irony).

And yet what was most admirable about Bermant was his rejection not only of Zionist violence, but of the sense of embattled exclusion that underlay it. He whose entire larger family, and every childhood friend, had been murdered by the Germans in 1941 disliked the "Holocaust industry", Holocaust museums and studies, and the harping on this horror "as the central event in Jewish history", all of which "can have a pernicious effect on Jewish attitudes to the outside world. It intensifies paranoia and the sense of isolation." He regularly told readers of the Jewish Chronicle that the Jews were not and never had been friendless.

That is my own sentiment, reinforced by all of these books. Maybe there are still some Jews who don't particularly wish to hear their dilemmas and misgivings discussed by non-Jews, but I hope not. I could not agree more with Bermant's central message. And my own belief, which I like to think Jewish readers might understand, is summed up by an everyday phrase: We're all in this together.

Geoffrey Wheatcroft's books include "The Controversy of Zion: Jewish Nationalism, the Jewish State and the Unresolved Jewish Dilemma" (Perseus), which won an American National Jewish Book Award, "The Strange Death of Tory England" (Penguin) and "Yo, Blair!" (Politico's)

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55 comments from readers

gnuneo
02 October 2008 at 18:01

well written, and nicely balanced. I shudder to think of some of the polemic you will no doubt be exposed to on this page very shortly.

Carl Jones
02 October 2008 at 19:15

gnuneo; I read it and walked away the first time. . It is balanced, but only upto a point. I posted a link to an article about Jews welcoming the Iranian President to New York.....it was censored.LOL

I don`t want to focus on Israel, or Jews....they have lives to live like most other people. My focus is on elite ---- and they make up a large section of the NWO. see the latest comment by Pencils on "Everything you need to know about the bank crisis".

platonicnumber
02 October 2008 at 19:28

A few questions:

-Which 'country' in the Middle East, has the most powerful best equipped military, with recruitment capabilities that would be the envy of any developed nation?

-Which 'country' in the Middle East, has had military conflicts with all its, and prevailed in all of them?

-Which 'country' in the Middle East (arguably in the world), has the best espionage and security apparatus?

-Which 'country' in the Middle East, is ranked amongst the top 10 nations worldwide in research and development?

-Which 'country' in the Middle East, is the 6th nuclear power in the world. attaining that status within 25 years of its inception-on land that had no infrastructure to support such a rapid development?

-Which 'country' in the Middle East, has an ongoing government settlement and home building programme for all its citizens, non-stop over the past 60 years?

-Which 'country' in the Middle East, has the highest rate of inward immigration?

-Which 'country' in the Middle East, is able to continuously flout UN resolutions, and count on the unconditional support of the world's most powerful nations; regardless?

And on and on.

-This is a 60 year old 'country' that has no natural resources to speak of.

-That is almost 50% desert.

-That has no economic relations with its neighbours.

-That is constanly at war.

-That has a captive, hostile population of several million souls.

And so on.

Nothing about this so called 'country' addes up, and if we dare put all this in the context of the current economic and political woes, a more sinister picture emerges of this unsustainble colony; that the Zionist settelers would have us believe is actually a 'country'!

Well, Israel is not a country and those of us who have been on the receiving end of its wars, its never ending hate campaigns and fear mongering, know it for what it is; an unsustainable wet dream of religious fanatics, who will go to extraordinary lengths of deception to propagate and justify their supremacist ideology.

Carl Jones
02 October 2008 at 20:20

Platonicnumber, so you should focus on London and New York. They are the reason why Israel is what it is.

platonicnumber
02 October 2008 at 22:03

Carl Jones: How inventive you Zionists are when it comes to fear mongering.

What am I meant to "focus on London and New York" exactly!?

Well I'll answer my own question-as I would hazard straight answers are probably not your bag!

I suppose you are, clumsily, trying to imply that people who are not fans of Israel, must also harbour a destructive hatred of Western Civilisation, as embodied by the great cities of London and New York ie terrorists or potential terrorists. To you I would say, "Pull the other one" as this forum requires significantly more brain power, than you seem able to muster.

The sad thing of course, is that since the tragedies of 911 and 7/7, the 'embedded' intellectuals in our media and phony bloggers like you, have been making hay by peddling the “us and them” argument and painting a deceitful and distorted picture, in which the enemies of Israel have morphed into the enemies of the world.

Well guess what, the world is not buying it any more so go FUD some where else!

platonicnumber
02 October 2008 at 22:17

Oh and just for the record,,, and the lovely boys and girls at GCHQ.

Western Civilisation:

well I guess Depeche Mode put it best: "I just cant get enough,,,"

;)

gnuneo
03 October 2008 at 06:15

damn i LOVE this!

this has absolutely to be the only time in Carl Jones life he has actually been accused of being a Zionist - i'd almost suspect a parody, if PN wasn't so clear in his own message.

CJ, you *have* to save this page for posterity! LOL

PN: what i think Carl meant, was that Israel was set up (in the form it was set), for the agenda of a group of power-brokers in Washington and London, who were not only NOT acting in the best interests of the Palestinians and surrounding countries, but ALSO not in the best interests of the Jews who moved to Israel - the normal Jews, whose children have been brainwashed into a suicidal hatred of their surrounding civilisations, and informed the only chance of their survival is through a militarisation that is entirely unsustainable, yet the process and acts of the militarisation will mean it *must* be sustained.

even the history of historic Israel itself tells of the inevitable consequence of such, such a pity as Geoffrey says, it is the secular Zionists, who believe more in marxist, high modernist notions of power, power and more power rather than the religious Jews who refuse to take part in the Occupation, who are setting the narrative for Israel.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/56637

davka
03 October 2008 at 11:53

None of Geoffrey 's nonsense makes a blind bit of difference to the main fact: the Arabs ethnically cleansed a million Jews from their own countries. The majority found a haven in Israel and they ain't going back where they came from. These people and their descendants comprise more than half the Jews of Israel. Zionism has been vindicated by 1400 years of Arab and Muslim antisemitism culminating in 20th century state sanctioned persecution and dispossession. Regardless of the Holocaust and what happened to the Jews of Europe, we are talking of the Arabs' utter failure to treat decently their minorities. Israel is a Middle Eastern answer to a Middle Eastern problem, what Jacqueline Rose and other fools might think is is all tosh.

platonicnumber
03 October 2008 at 15:42

Davka: “Zionism has been vindicated by 1400 years of Arab and Muslim antisemitism culminating in 20th century state sanctioned persecution and dispossession.”

“we are talking of the Arabs' utter failure to treat decently their minorities.”

WHAT???

- Here is an example of the “Arabs' utter failure to treat decently their minorities.”

From: Biographical History of Modern Egypt. By Arthur Goldshcmidt Jr.

“Qattawi Yusuf Aslan (1861-1942)

Enterpreneur, engineer, member of parliament, cabinet minister and leader of Egypts Jewish community. Yusuf’s family traced its residence in Egypt back to the eighth century; his father served in the government of Abbas, Sa’id and Isma’il. Yusuf began his career as an engineer in the Public Works Ministry. He became a member and then elected president of the Egyptian Chamber of Commerce and served on the boards of the Bank of Misr (the Bank of Egypt, which he helped to found) and other companies. He was elected in 1913 to the Legislative Assembly and in 1923 to the Chamber of Deputies, chairing its budget committee. He was minister of economy and communication in the Ziwar cabinet of 1924/25. He became a member of the short-lived Ittihad Party and was appointed member and speaker of the Senate from 1927 to 1931. His wife a lady-in-waiting to Queen Nazli, and Yusuf was reputedly close to King Fouad. He was President of Cairo’s Shephardic Jewish Council from 1924-42 and was succeeded in the post after his death by his son Rene.”

As late as 1952, Egypt had a Jewish Finance Minister. There was never ethnic cleansing of Jews in the Arab world, as you would have people believe; in fact Jews fled Christian persecution to Arab and Islamic countries.

But what there really was, is Zionists organizations who bombed Jewish businesses in Arab countries, in the 1930s and 1940s, to create panic and fear prompting an ‘exodus’ into Palestine; in order to bolster the settler numbers.

Of course this is not a new fake sob story for If one was to believe your miserable history then it seems that you have spent the last 3000 years escaping “persecution” form every civilization known to man:

-Chased out of Babylon

-Chased out of Egypt

-Chased out of Arabia

-Chased out of Palestine

-Chased out of North Africa

-Chased out of Europe

-Chased out of Russia

And so on,,,,

The true persecution, is what ‘embedded’ Zionists in Western media, Hollywood and political organisations, have enacted against Arabs/Muslims. If we were to believe the media then it seems that:

-Arabs are all terrorists

-Arabs are abusers of Women

-Arabs are enslavers of Black people

-Arabs are killers of Gay people

-Arabs are haters of Western civilization and democracy

-Arabs are haters of minorities eg Kurds etc

-Arabs control world oil markets

And so on,,

I wouldn’t be surprised if, in current climate, I was to read a headline saying, ‘Israeli scientists discover that Arabs cause cancer' !!!

And for the record, I dislike all organized religion in equal measure.

davka
03 October 2008 at 17:32

Of course there was a Jewish finance minister in Egypt. There was also one in Iraq! But where are their descendants now? CLUE: NOT in Egypt or Iraq. there are precisely 6 Jews left in Iraq out of 140,000. There are 30 in Egypt of 80,000. That's ethnic cleansing. Like all apologists you try to deny it or blame the Jews for their own misfortune. But my family went through it, so we know!

Carl Jones
03 October 2008 at 20:09

gnuneo: I must really thankyou for saving me half an hour of my Friday evening......and you put it much than I could. :)

gnuneo
03 October 2008 at 23:07

davka: Diasporic Jews have lived throughout the ME since the beginning of the Diaspora, usually peacefully (and successfully) with their Muslim neighbours, who are commanded by the Qoran to treat Jews with respect as the fellow Abrahamicists they are. Yes, there were instances and times of oppression, but NOTHING like what happened to Jews unfortunate enough to live under the various Christendoms, Catholic, Orthodox or Protestantism.

what happened since the formation of Israel (upon Muslim territory, is 3-fold:

1. the Israeli intelligence community undertook secret ops (including attacking Jews themselves), to convince Sephardim to immigrate to Israel. (This is easily researched, and there are direct quotes from senior, influential Zionists laying the groundwork and explaining the "necessity" of doing so.)

2. the way Israel was created, and the suffering of Palestinians led to a 'surge' in anti-semitism across the Islamic world, both by the normal people and by the Leaders (who could grab much of the emigrates wealth), this is also true. Most of this could have easily been avoided, by not treating the Palestinians as untermenschen.

3. Israel offered many incentives to 'gather in' many Sephardim, who facing a growing backlash in their home countries against Israel and Judaism (as most senior Jews at the time warned about - Geoffrey's article refers to that as well) decided a carrot was better than a stick, and moved of their own free will.

mistakes and injustices were performed by BOTH sides. Get your history accurate, it makes your arguments much more potent.

CJ: no worries, buy me a drink sometime. ;)

btw, cheers for the recommendation of the Icke vid, very interesting.

davka
04 October 2008 at 15:56

gnuneo

lies lies and propaganda. How do you explain the fact that 1,000 Jews were killed by Arab mobs in the decade BEFORE Israel was established? Perhas the Jews can be blamed for their own deaths. Suggest YOU get your history accurate.

gnuneo
04 October 2008 at 17:33

right. And how many had died in the long centuries before that? 1000 every decade? Nope, and you know it.

do you think the mass displacement of Palestinian peasants from their historic lands because their largely Egyptian land-owners sold the land from under them had *nothing* to do with this violence?

now, i am not at all condoning this violence, i am even sure many of those killed were against the way Israel was being reborn, as Geoffrey's article says, at the time most Jews were. And there can be no doubt that a wave of horror went through the ME as it became clear the Western Powers were intent on establishing a religious-racist colony for Jewish settlers and refugees within the area of Palestine, which led to them invading with the intention of preventing this in embryo. This also was a terrible mistake and helped create the tragedy we see today. You should however note the Western Powers were fully aware that this reaction would happen, and left the Jews almost undefended - even at this stage, Israel was seen as part of the Final Solution.

There can be no doubt there were many mistakes made on both sides, and a vast amount of unnecessary suffering and bloodshed, but there can also be no doubt that 99.999% of the problems between Islam and Judaism are caused by Israel's current policies towards the occupied lands of Palestine, and indeed, the occupied Palestinians themselves.

You can go looking for evidence of historic and eternal hatred between Jew and Muslim - but you're simply not going to find it.

davka
04 October 2008 at 19:34

Gnuneo:

In the 1066 Granada massacre, more than 1,500 Jewish families ( 4,000 persons) "fell in one day", and in Fez in 1033, when 6,000 Jews were killed. There were further massacres in Fez in 1276 and 1465.

Other mass murders of Jews in Arab lands occurred in Morocco in the 8th century, where whole communities were wiped out by Muslim ruler Idris I; North Africa in the 12th century, where the Almohads either forcibly converted or decimated several communities; Libya in 1785, where Ali Burzi Pasha murdered hundreds of Jews; Algiers, where Jews were massacred in 1805, 1815 and 1830 and Marrakesh, Morocco, where more than 300 Jews were murdered between 1864 and 1880.

The Damascus affair occurred in 1840, when an Italian monk and his servant disappeared in Damascus. Pogroms occurred in: Baghdad (1828) Aleppo (1850, 1875), Damascus (1840, 1848, 1890), Beirut (1862, 1874), Dayr al-Qamar (1847), Jerusalem (1847), Cairo (1844, 1890, 1901-02), Mansura (1877), Alexandria (1870, 1882, 1901-07), Port Said (1903, 1908), Damanhur (1871, 1873, 1877, 1891), Istanbul (1870, 1874), Buyukdere (1864), Kuzguncuk (1866), Eyub (1868), Edirne (1872), Izmir (1872, 1874). In Meshed, thousands of Jews were forcibly converted to Islam (but that's OK, they were still alive!) in the 19th century.

Apart from all these incidents Jews and Muslims lived in perfect harmony!

bodek_tzitziyot
04 October 2008 at 22:27

Wheatcroft claims that after the Holocaust “history has been rewritten to evade the fact that...Jews were indifferent or hostile to Zionism when it was launched”. This is nonsense. The false consciousness of the Jews in pre-Holocaust Europe was the most fiercely debated issue in Zionism before, during and after WW2. The Holocaust confirmed totally the correctness of the Zionist analysis of the political situation of Europe's Jews, and also confirmed the lack of political judgement of the anti-Zionists who believed Jews had a future in Europe.

Wheatcroft then recalls a time when Israel was deeply admired in the West. He patronizingly implies that it is Israel that has changed for the worse, rather than the West. He cites a list of Jewish “critics”, and accepts without question that their criticism is valid, even though most of it is way over the top. And he also accepts that these critics have a justified resentment at “having been expected to conform and refrain from criticism”. He offers not a shred of proof that any pro-Israeli activist has ever coerced such Jewish anti-Zionists. And the fact is that no group of Jews is more voluble and noisome than Israel's critics, and also that no group of Jews has so little regard and respect for the opinions and feelings of other Jews.

Wheatcroft goes on to describe the anti-Israel sentiment in Britain after the 2006 war, and says it is justified. He does not confront the fact that the reason for most anti-Israeli sentiment is rooted not in Israel's actions, but in opposition to its very being. Nor does he acknowledge the poisonous effect on the masses of the corrupt British media, and the endemic anti-Semitism of the European peoples.

Wheatcroft then asserts “German Jews were not beloved of many Zionists”. This is nonsense. German Jews established many of the legal, economic and social institutions of pre-state Israel, and their contribution to Zionism and to Israel's military strength have always been well recognized.

Wheatcroft continues to describe Buber, Magnes and Leibowitz as “forgotten heroes”. Again, complete nonsense. They are neither forgotten nor heroes. They opposed what they saw as chauvinism, but they did so with a lack of judiciousness and with a venomous tongue that justly earned them their position in the periphery of Israeli political life.

The murder of Arlosoroff is an unsolved mystery to this day. Some believe the British were responsible, since Arlosoroff was coming round to the view that the only way to save Europe's Jews from death was to establish a military dictatorship and bring masses of Jews from Europe to Palestine immediately. Others believe that Goebbels was behind it, since in the past they had a shared mistress. The third view is that Revisionists were the culprits, owing to their newspaper campaign against him that used inflammatory language.

To describe Zionism as a colonial project is an act of political illiteracy. Colonial projects require a mother country, a foreign territory unconnected historically to the people of the mother country, a policy of settlement and imposition of control on the colonized territory by people of the mother country, and the transfer of wealth from the colony to the mother country. Zionism has none of these attributes.

Herzl harbored no ill wishes towards the Arabs, and did not see them as a moral or political obstacle because they were so few in number. In 1917 the census conducted by the British showed there were fewer that 750000 people in the territory of Palestine, including what became the Kingdom of Jordan. Today, more than 15 million people reside in this area.

The likes of Claude Montefiore and David Alexander showed a complete indifference to the interests and fate of Europe's Jews. Their “I'm all right Jack” mentality is worthy only of contempt. Living at a time of rising xenophobic nationalism, they could not imagine a world where multiple loyalties were not only accepted but were the norm.

“We're all in this together”, claims Wheatcroft. No, we're not. When push comes to shove, we Jews are totally alone. When the gas chambers and crematoria were operating, the free world stood by and did nothing. Cold and callous indifference towards the Jews was universal. Cosmo Lang said that the Jews had brought this calamity upon themselves. Anthony Eden gratuitously sabotaged attempts to save Jewish children from gassing. The Minister of Information forbade the BBC from broadcasting information about the extermination of the Jews. After the war, Ernest Bevin said of the pitiful Holocaust survivors that the Jews were always trying to push in to the head of the queue. When some of those survivors on the Exodus were turned back from Haifa by the British Navy, the Attlee Government planned to send them back to concentration camps in Germany. In 1956, British intelligence handed to the Egyptians valuable information on Israel's air defences. When the Yom Kippur War broke out, Edward Heath forbade the transfer of medical supplies to Israel. The list could go on and on.

And when the Iranians attack and try to exterminate Israel with nukes, as they are preparing to do, the world will exhibit the same lack of solidarity with the Jews that it showed during the Holocaust and in its aftermath.

Douglas Chalmers
05 October 2008 at 13:34

The Jewish state was born in the shadow of the control and manipulation of the Arab world by the West. The holocaust was merely a convenience making millions of Western Jewish migrants immediately available. Jews have been deliberately suckered into an "Its either them or us" mentality ever since - and it has been continued to be deliberately perpetrated to pander to the rabid Christian Zionists in the USA.

Thus no wonder that Jewish opinion is divided both in the fake state of Israel and elswhere that Jews have settled. But Semites are both Arab and Jew as well as a few other ethnicities and in East Africa as well. "Anti-Semitism" is a learned Western misnomer. So much for European ignorance about Asia, uhh.

While we are at it, this Jewish author has also been conveniently overlooked in this article - Shlomo Zand and the Final Solution to the Jewish Problem http://www.zionism-israel.com/log/archives/00000524.html

Douglas Chalmers
05 October 2008 at 13:42

And, for the weekend, some of the real music from Palestine, once land of Arabs, Christians and Jews http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-4NHJXisEQ&feature=related

platonicnumber
05 October 2008 at 18:48

Bodek_tzitziyot:

At the risk of sounding jingoistic; who is doing the lying and who is doing the dying. In today’s world it is not Zionists nor is it Jewish People.

So lets us look at something more tangible, than the rich tapestry of delusions and distortions that you would refer to as ‘history’; lets look at the present. Jewish people are by no means victims today, on the contrary, some, and I am one of them, may argue that Jewish people are the most powerful religious and political collective on the face of the earth.

For example, Zionist Jewish people have an almost exclusive control of Hollywood. And who has been, and still is, the most maligned ethnic group in Hollywood cinematic output over the past sixty years or so? Well for the answer I refer you to a book and documentary titled “Reel bad Arabs”. This phenomenon of Zionist domination is mirrored in other US centres of political and financial power; the current White House administration-and the next administration of the soon-to-be President Obama for that matter, the Pentagon, the CIA and the Orwellian ‘Department of Home Land Security’ are a few examples. As an example of Zionist political control, one only needs to study the recent career set backs of Hillary Clinton and Ken Livingston, on the other side of the pond. This trend can also be perceived in the UK and France, but in a far less overt manner. Of course the subtle Zionist European approach may well be out of the window with the dawning of the age of Monsieur Sarkozy, this omnipresent Mr Fix It to all the worlds problems; but that’s another can of worms.

Keeping this in mind and looking at the Middle East today, namely Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan, Lebanon, Somalia, Sudan and before them in time Palestine, Egypt, Syria, Libya; all predominantly Muslim or Arab countries. All are in, or have been in military conflict with the US or the UK, even though this is against the common interests of all of the parties involved; except Israel of course. See a trend, or as the great Billy Bragg would say: “Must I draw you a picture”.

The first thing a psychopath does is to convince himself that he is the victim; after that he is able sanction anything. And it is this psychopathic sense of victim hood that Israelis and terrorists have in common; with the exception that Israel’s is phoney and far far more devious and powerful.

It is another aspect of this phoney sense of victim hood, that the Zionist led media is exploiting in ‘The West’; by falsely convincing people that Arabs and Muslims are ‘the enemies of freedom and democracy’, enemies of women’s freedoms, enemies gay rights, and killers of “Black Africans”, bombers of Hindus and the Chinese. Basically, since 911 enemies of Israel have morphed into enemies of the entire planet, if we are to believe the likes of the BBC and its plethora of professional liars like the soothingly convincing Mr Frank Gardner.

This is done by reawakening, the thus far dormant European monster of ‘Racial Superiority’ and ‘Racial Purity’-in 2004 a Jewish woman, Patricia Richardson (nee Feldman), won a council seat in Essex for the BNP! - and how Islam is now an intrinsic threat to ‘our way of life’. The proverb, ‘Running with hare and hunting with the hounds’ immediately springs to my mind.

And just to farther illustrate and without naming names, does anyone remember in 2004/05, certain big department stores in London, who would not put up Christmas decorations, lest they offend Muslims!? Can anyone hazard a guess at what links the ownership of these companies?

Taking a more comprehensive look, we have Europeans and Americans watching with fear and sometimes hatred, members of ethnic minorities such as Muslims or Arabs in their midst; and this I say based on personal experience.

In other words, thanks to decades long Zionist driven cultural and political onslaught, the daily experience of the Zionist settler in the 1980s and 1990s Israel, has been transplanted into that of the current daily experience of many a cosmopolitan European. Israel’s enemies are also The US and Europe’s enemies. A few fancy moves and Israel’s fight with its neighbours becomes ‘The War on Terror’; absolute genius.

A short digression. The BBC is Israel’s biggest friend bar none. The BBCis a formidable global instrument of Zionist propaganda; like no other. Its bias can be observed in its highly selective coverage and its injecting into pubic discourse of IDF terms, like “facts on the ground” and “blood on their hands”. Hence the Zionists constant pre-emptive spin, of falsely accusing the BBC of anti-Israeli bias, lest anybody starts digging into the archives. Here is link to a very interesting article you may want to read, which deals with the BBC’s role in the global Zionist agenda.

Paste Link: http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=5004

To cut a long story short and keep my blood pressure down; Zionist Jewish People, are not the victims. On the contrary, the real victims have a couple of things in common:

i-Firstly they are soldiers, sons and daughters of citizens and subjects of countries scared out of their wits by a Zionist led media hate campaign and a bought and paid for political apparatus; all living their lives in a state of unexplainable fear and anger at home, while abroad their sons and daughters are dying in the service of the expansionist dreams of ‘God’s chosen people’.

ii-And on the receiving end of this Zionist whipped-up ‘fear and loathing’ are those perceived to be enemies or potential enemies of the Zionist state ie Arabs and Muslims.

From medialens.org:

" The horrific shooting of eight young people at a Jewish seminary in Jerusalem last Thursday was followed by saturation media coverage. International statesmen lined up with condemnations of the attack and condolences for the victims and their families.

Prime Minister Gordon Brown announced: "This is clearly an attempt to strike a blow at the very heart of the peace process.” (Jon Smith, Press Association, 'Brown: massacre "strikes at heart of peace"', March 7, 2008)

Foreign Secretary David Milliband described the slaughter as “an arrow aimed at the heart of the peace process so recently revived.” (Donald Macintyre and Eric Silver, 'Massacre in the heart of Jerusalem', The Independent, March 7, 2008)

The Guardian’s front page declared: "the descent into violence in the Middle East accelerated last night" in a "dramatic escalation". (Rory McCarthy, ‘Eight dead as gunman hits Jerusalem religious school’, The Guardian, March 7, 2008). A Daily Mirror headline read: ‘Kids Murdered In The Library’ (Allison Martin, March 7, 2008). The Telegraph asserted that the attack “is likely to be remembered as the moment the Middle East peace process died.” (Tim Butcher, ‘Hopes of peace in the Middle East are blown away in a hail of bullets’, Daily Telegraph, March 7, 2008)

The contrast to reactions to the killing of over 120 Palestinians, including many women and children, in occupied Gaza the previous week could hardly be more striking. On one day alone, 60 people died in a hail of Israeli firepower using F-16 planes, Apache helicopter gunships, tanks, armoured bulldozers and ground troops.

No Western leader was heard condemning the Israeli assault on Gaza as “an attempt to strike a blow at the very heart of the peace process.” To our knowledge, no reporter suggested that “the peace process” had now “died”. No headlines screamed of Palestinian babies “murdered” in their beds. In short, news reports from the Gazan bloodbath typically lacked the anguished details and tone that suffused the reporting from Jerusalem less than a week later.

“Oh the tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive’

Douglas Chalmers
05 October 2008 at 19:53

"By July 2006, however, when Israel attacked Lebanon, British Jews who supported Israel were painfully isolated..."

But who are the Lebanese and the Palestinians, really? They are not Moslem alone but actually 40% CHRISTIAN!!! That is, the USA (and Britain) pay Israel to torment fellow Christians while trumpeting to the world what great Christian countries they are.....

In fact, Christianity is primarily an ARAB religion. It is not and never was Jewish - and it may yet be proven that Jesus was not an ethnic Jew, whatever they are supposed to be. He certainly never was an Ashkenaze, the current dominant group of Israeli white "settler society".

Jews include many ethnic Arabs, actually - and not all Arabs are Moslem. Ironically, Judaism and Christianity are respected by Islam but Islam does not receive the same consideration in return. Even in Iran, there is a thriving Jewish community. The problem is with the landgrabbers in what was once known as Palestine.

Here is Lebanon's famed Arab singer, Fairouz (Fayrouz), a Maronite Christian, who often sang traditional hyms in Arabic- "The Passion as sung by Fairouz" and see related videos http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9QCZc2A1p7Y

davka
05 October 2008 at 20:28

there are some seriously disturbed posters on this site

platonicnumber
05 October 2008 at 20:50

"Douglas Chambers"

Whats the weather like in Tel Aviv tonight?

;)

Douglas Chalmers
06 October 2008 at 04:56

What does Tel Aviv have to do with anything, platonicnumber? You seem to have misunderstood simply because I added the plight of Arab Christians (also Semites) to the argument..

But then, you can't even spell my name correctly. As it is Scottish, what hope have you for realizing the reality of things elswhere when you are equally inept about matters in your own homeland?

fairplay
06 October 2008 at 09:42

davka, can you answer these questions please

are the majority of jews in israel ashkenazi? if so why do you think eastern europeans have a right to the land?

are sephardics treated as second class citizens in their own land? if so why? do they hold any senior positions in government?

why do we have labour friends of israel and conservative friends of israel in the uk when no other "nation" gets this? is it political and financial blackmail?

what is the difference between present day israel and apartheid south africa as far as the treatment of the palestinians is concerned? seems worse in israel to me.

do you think the people in the entertainment/media world are hypocrites after their crusades against south africa ? do you think if they are its because they dont want to rock their paymasters boat by criticising israel?

why should any jewish person who stands against zionism be classed as a self hating jew? judaism is a religion, zionism isnt.

what is the position of the thousands of jews in iran at this moment in time after being offered vast sums of money by israel to emigrate there and refusing? if israel attack iran will warning be given by israel to the iranian jews beforehand?

why is the enemy of the west now "islam" when it never was in the past and without media intervention wouldnt be now either?

honest questions. my jewish mates all reel off the same answers to these questions which are basically what is force fed down their throats from birth. they actually dont like talking about it. as you seem well read and opinionated what are your thoughts on the above?

by the way, this is not a dig. i would like a constructive discussion about it. we either get one side or the other but no middle ground. how do you feel about any of the above questions?

Carl Jones
06 October 2008 at 11:17

Elite ---- don`t care about ordinary ----. It doesn`t matter where they live. The NWO would even consider using Israel as a sacrifice to further their global agenda. The anti semitic lable is used to gag anyone who questions this globa agenda. The British arrest of Tobin, has been done to highlight the fact that Britian still has some semblence of free speech....wot ever that is.LOL Europes holocaust denial laws are a joke. Your legal team can`t even offer a defence, lest they also be arrested. It just makes one wonder what they`ve got to hide?

Carl Jones
06 October 2008 at 12:13

Sorry; "Toben".

platonicnumber
06 October 2008 at 18:23

" If you live in an American swing state you may have received a copy of ‘Obsession’ in your Sunday paper. ‘Obsession’ isn’t a perfume: it’s a documentary about ‘radical Islam’s war against the West’.

In the last two weeks of September, 28 million copies of the film were enclosed as an advertising supplement in 74 newspapers, including the New York Times and the Chronicle of Higher Education.

‘The threat of Radical Islam is the most important issue facing us today,’ the sleeve announces. ‘It’s our responsibility to ensure we can make an informed vote in November.’ The Clarion Fund, the supplement’s sponsor, doesn’t explicitly endorse McCain, so as not to jeopardise its tax-exempt status, but the message is clear enough, and its circulation just happened to coincide with Obama’s leap in the polls.

The Clarion Fund is a front for neoconservative and Israeli pressure groups. It has an office, or at least an address, in Manhattan at Grace Corporate Park Executive Suites, which rents out ‘virtual office identity packages’ for $75 a month. Its website, clarionfund.org, provides neither a list of staff nor a board of directors, and the group still hasn’t disclosed where it gets its money, as required by the IRS. Who paid to make ‘Obsession’ isn’t clear – it cost $400,000. According to Rabbi Raphael Shore, the film’s Canadian-Israeli producer, 80 per cent of the money came from the executive producer ‘Peter Mier’, but that’s just an alias, as is the name of the film’s production manager, ‘Brett Halperin’. Shore claims ‘Mier’ and ‘Halperin’, whoever they are, are simply taking precautions, though it isn’t clear against what. The danger (whatever it is) hasn’t stopped Shore – or the director, Wayne Kopping, a South African neocon – from going on television to promote their work.

The 60-minute film was first released in 2006 and shown during the mid-term elections on Fox News. Since then it has received top billing at ‘Islamo-Fascism Awareness’ week on American campuses, at Christian-Zionist conferences and at events organised by Republican politicians in Florida. It has found a powerful backer in the real estate magnate Sheldon Adelson, who describes himself as ‘the world’s richest Jew’. The Endowment for Middle East Truth, a neoconservative think tank in Washington DC which recently hosted a series of seminars named after Adelson and his wife, arranged distribution of ‘Obsession’, at a cost in the tens of millions.

The makers of the film, like their subjects, are soldiers of God. Almost everyone associated with it or with Clarion has worked for Aish HaTorah, an ‘education’ group with offices in East Jerusalem and strong links to the settler movement. Clarion was incorporated in Delaware to the New York offices of Aish HaTorah and Rabbi Shore was the director, as well as the founder of its media organisation, Honest Reporting, which campaigns against a two-state solution in Israel/Palestine. It’s illegal in the US for nonprofit organisations, or for foreign nationals, to try to influence the outcome of an election.

The film’s chief claim is that 2008 is like 1938, only worse, since there are more Muslims than Germans and they’re more spread out geographically: ‘They’re not outside our borders, they are here.’ Violent raptures and spectacular carnage unfold in slick montages set to throbbing Middle Eastern music: Pakistanis deliriously burning the American flag, Palestinians celebrating the 9/11 attacks, Hizbullah chanting ‘death to America’, clerics praising the ‘magnificent 19’ and the murder of unbelievers, children training to become suicide bombers, the planes crashing into the towers. These images are interspersed with footage of Nazi rallies and Hitler’s speeches. A chapter – narrated by Martin Gilbert, Churchill’s biographer – is devoted to the Mufti’s collaboration with Hitler.

Scary Muslims are everywhere, and the umma stands more united than ever, driven by hatred of infidels and Jews and determined to conquer the West, a civilisation gone soft, weakened by self-doubt, political correctness bordering on treason, and, worst of all, a ‘culture of denial’. Gilbert spells it out:

In the 1930s, the danger of Nazism was there . . . but people thought, well, this is a German problem, it’s a limited problem . . . And I think the same is true today . . . They don’t see that Islamic fundamentalism is a global network and a global problem . . .because if you come to that conclusion – and I’m sure it’s the true conclusion – then you have to do something about it.

‘Obsession’ doesn’t say what we should do – except steer well clear of dialogue and negotiation.

Although there are interviews with the usual ‘terrorism experts’ – Daniel Pipes, Alan Dershowitz et al – the film’s portrayal of the region is mostly left to native informants like Nonie Darwish (a leader of Arabs for Israel and the daughter of a slain fighter from Gaza), Brigitte Gabriel (the Lebanese-Christian author of They Must Be Stopped) and Walid Shoebat, a ‘former PLO terrorist’ who operates under a pseudonym – for security reasons, of course. Shoebat runs the Walid Shoebat Foundation, described on its website as an ‘organisation that cries out for the Justice of Israel and the Jewish people’. He’s made a career of recounting his journey from Islamic terror to Christian Zionism before audiences at Evangelical gatherings and the US Air Force Academy. It’s not clear, though, that he ever laid a hand on anyone. According to a relative, ‘the biggest act of terror he ever committed was to glue Palestinian flags on street posts.’ What is very clear is that, for the makers of ‘Obsession’, having once hated Jews gives you privileged access to the Muslim mind, and not only if you’re an ex-Muslim. Among the film’s authorities on radical Islam is a former leader of the Hitler Youth, Alfons Heck, who says that ‘what the Muslims do to their own children is even worse’ than the things the Nazis did to young Germans – as only a Nazi could know.

If you didn’t receive ‘Obsession’ with your paper, you can watch it on YouTube.

It’s been posted by a "former Muslim" whose screen identity is ‘fuckmohammad’. "

The London Review of Books

October 2008

Douglas Chalmers
07 October 2008 at 10:41

French FM and co- founder of Médecins Sans Frontières, Bernard Kouchner, seems to be making the most of their presidency of the EU to exhort/permit Israel to launch a nuclear strike against Iran in exchange for peace with the Arab Palestinians.

Europe may freeze this winter thanks to him and fellow Jew + Neocon puppet, president Sarkosy, uhh! http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world/view/380424... And a U.N. nuclear conference of 145 nations indirectly criticized Israel on Saturday for refusing to put its atomic program under international purview..... http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/10/04/nuclear.midea...

Carl Jones
07 October 2008 at 20:11

Douglas, I`ve mentioned it before, but if you and others had forgotten (lol).....Sarkozy is a Massad agent and was questioned by French police after becoming president....of course, he can`t be touched until he leaves office. Sarkozy is the NWO`s direct replacement for war criminal Tony Blair.LOL

davka
07 October 2008 at 22:40

davka, can you answer these questions please:

I'll try, but you have chosen very odd ones, fairplay.

Jews are Jews - the word comes from Judea. That's the region around Jerusalem. They are not just a religion, they are a people.

Sephardim have served in senior government posts and the gaps are narrowing rapidly between groups

You will find Conservative and Labour friends of everyone under the sun

Palestinian Arabs don't live in Israel proper and are governed by their own Palestinian authority, or Hamas government in Gaza. Comparisons with SA apartheid are ridiculous, and people who believe them are fools. For real apartheid go to Saudi Arabia. Why no outrage, no boycotts, etc. That's hypocrisy.

The 20,000 Jews still left in Iran are the remnant of a community of 100,000. Even in 1939 Germany one fifth of the Jewish community was still living there. (That doesn't mean that life is so wonderful in Iran or was so wonderful in Germany.) An Israeli attack on Iran does not bear thinking about. Maybe by then Ahmadinejad will be bumped off Inshallah

.

platonicnumber
08 October 2008 at 12:59

From: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-445979/Teachers-drop...

- “Teachers drop the Holocaust to avoid offending Muslims.”

“Schools are dropping the Holocaust from history lessons to avoid offending Muslim pupils, a Government backed study has revealed.”

“There is also resistance to tackling the 11th century Crusades - where Christians fought Muslim armies for control of Jerusalem - because lessons often contradict what is taught in local mosques.”

From: http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/may/16/highereducat...

- “Nottingham 'student' detained under Terrorism Act”

“Two men aged 22 and 30 have been arrested on the University of Nottingham's campus under the Terrorism Act, police confirmed today.”

“The arrests are understood to relate to alleged radical material.”

“Terrorism on campus is an ongoing government concern. The higher education minister, Bill Rammell, issued revised guidelines for universities earlier this year after outrage at the government's original guidelines asking academics to "spy" on suspect students.

Lecturers have concerns about the new government guidelines to tackle terrorism in further education colleges, which say staff should watch out for students with an interest in al-Qaida and monitor students' internet activities, and external speakers invited on to campus, to spot potential terrorists

The union believes the whole tone of the consultation and guidance is wrong and risks singling out Muslim and other faith groups as predisposed towards violence.”

From: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7656607.stm

- “Schools told to counter extremism.”

“Schools are being given advice on how to prevent pupils becoming drawn to violent extremism and terrorism.”

“Mr Balls said the initiative was a direct response to a call from schools for support and advice to tackle extremism.

"This is not about asking teachers to be monitors and to be doing surveillance, that's not their job.

"But if something concerns them, we want them to know who to turn to for help," he said.”

"Violent extremism influenced by Al-Qaeda currently poses the greatest security threat but other forms of extremism and hate- or race-based prejudice are also affecting our communities and causing alienation and disaffection amongst young people," he added.”

From: http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/oct/08/teaching.pup...

- “Terror code tells teachers to watch pupils.”

“Teachers will be asked to monitor pupils' behaviour and inform the authorities - including police - if they suspect teenagers are being drawn into violent extremism, under government guidance published today.”

“The most controversial element of today's plan will be to extend the "in loco parentis" responsibilities of teachers to monitoring whether their charges are developing extreme views and informing the authorities where there are concerns.”

fairplay
08 October 2008 at 20:09

so the ashkenazis are from judea then? all those history books must be wrong then. i thought they were from eastern europe. what a fool i am.

whats the percentage of ashkenazis in positions of power in israel compared to the sephardics davka?

please tell me. no eastern european has a right to the biblical lands!! and what is the difference between present day isael and apartheir south africa? i dont see any

gnuneo
08 October 2008 at 23:01

davka:

"In the 1066 Granada massacre, more than 1,500 Jewish families ( 4,000 persons) "fell in one day", and in Fez in 1033, when 6,000 Jews were killed. There were further massacres in Fez in 1276 and 1465..."

and i stated that there was oppression in Muslim societies towards Jews - of course, in EVERY society there is always a level of violence towards minorities, Islam is no different. One thing that struck me though - how many pogroms and slaughters were actually committed by *Palestinians* (or people living in the area of Palestine if you want to be argumentative about it)?

Do they deserve to be the scapegoat for the rest of Islam's offences? Should the Irish be entitled to slaughter Spaniards for what the British did to them?

bodek_tzitziyot:

"To describe Zionism as a colonial project is an act of political illiteracy. Colonial projects require a mother country,"

Zionism was an almost entirely European concept.

"a foreign territory unconnected historically to the people of the mother country"

Palestine seems to fit the bill.

"a policy of settlement and imposition of control on the colonized territory by people of the mother country,"

i rather think the Balfour Declaration fits that description nicely.

"and the transfer of wealth from the colony to the mother country. Zionism has none of these attributes."

ahh yes, the poor peasant Jewish Israelis, living the same pastoral lifestyle Palestinian peasants have lived for millenia. Or not.

gnuneo
08 October 2008 at 23:12

"Wheatcroft goes on to describe the anti-Israel sentiment in Britain after the 2006 war, and says it is justified. He does not confront the fact that the reason for most anti-Israeli sentiment is rooted not in Israel's actions, but in opposition to its very being."

and this is just outright BS. Every political analyst/commentator in the UK apart from any ultra-Zionists, will tell you that pro-Israel sentiment is higher than pro-Islam - and that the article is entirely correct, that the incredible brutality and neo-con agenda of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon was a major water-shed in British pulbic opinion towards the long-suffering neighbours of modern Israel.

"We're all in this together”, claims Wheatcroft. No, we're not. When push comes to shove, we Jews are totally alone. When the gas chambers and crematoria were operating, the free world stood by and did nothing..."

i have met Danish Jews who exist today because normal Danes risked everything to help their ancestors escape, there were countless non-Jews who cared very deeply indeed about what was happening. You insult them and their memory, and you should be ashamed. Many normal citizens stood up to oppose Nazism, and ended alongside Jews, gypsies and Communists in the concentration camps - you mistake normal citizens for our far-less-than-democratic 'Leaders', who did indeed actively take part in the Final Solution, across Europe. There are no words for the contempt i feel towards them.

gnuneo
08 October 2008 at 23:30

PN: "So lets us look at something more tangible, than the rich tapestry of delusions and distortions that you would refer to as ‘history’; lets look at the present. Jewish people are by no means victims today, on the contrary, some, and I am one of them, may argue that Jewish people are the most powerful religious and political collective on the face of the earth."

oh dear oh dear - basic logical fallacy.

just because "SOME Jews have a lot of power and are not victims", by no stretch of the imagination does that become "ALL Jews have a lot of power and are not victims".

can you see the basic fallacy here? You have moved beyond a simple expression of 'reality' (some Jews control a lot of America's media output), to a basic expression of racism (Jews control everything).

there is a brilliant essay on this fallacy by Robert anton Wilson, unfortunately i can't find a link, so imagine you've just read a brilliant essay by Robert Anton Wilson critiquing this fallacy instead.

davka: "Comparisons with SA apartheid are ridiculous, and people who believe them are fools. For real apartheid go to Saudi Arabia. Why no outrage, no boycotts, etc. That's hypocrisy."

we all already know KSA is a backward, fundamentalist-paradise of ignorant play-boys and ignorant hicks (sounds startlingly similar to the US put like that!) for one, and for two, the KSA is never described as "an outpost of Western Civilisation". I wouldn't be opposed to sanction upon the KSA to improve its human rights, most certainly - but which group in Washington would scupper such ideas? And don't you find it odd this group is also the strongest apparent supporter of Israeli atrocities? Egged on Olmert into the catastrophic Lebanon debacle, and also the Georgians into their South Ossetian 'adventure'. Not people i would be looking to for good advice, really.

Douglas Chalmers
09 October 2008 at 00:30

Quote: In an interview with the right-wing magazine Newsmax yesterday, Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT) called Sen. Barack Obama's worldview "naive." Asked if Obama had "the right stuff to bomb Iran if it came to that level," Lieberman replied..... http://thinkprogress.org/2008/10/08/lieberman-obama-bomb-ira...

fairplay
09 October 2008 at 12:43

Joe Lieberman

now there's an honest guy. zionism at it's purest

fairplay
10 October 2008 at 06:31

oh dear davka

even the jewish people are questioning it now!!

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/cook.php?articleid=13569

davka
10 October 2008 at 11:03

Fairplay

This man Sands is just a useful idiot - his speciality is French politics, not Jewish anthropology. Jonathan Cooke is a propagandist for whom Sands' loony work is grist to the mill.

The Ashkenazi Jews are not from Eastern Europe. Ashkenaz means Germany, if you must know. Jews are a people with a common history, culture, language and a faith. Genetic studies have shown Ashkenazim and Sephardim have more in common with each other than with the Gentile populations they lived amongst. Educate yourself.

davka
10 October 2008 at 11:09

One thing that struck me though - how many pogroms and slaughters were actually committed by *Palestinians* (or people living in the area of Palestine if you want to be argumentative about it)

Gugneo

"One thing that struck me though - how many pogroms and slaughters were actually committed by *Palestinians* (or people living in the area of Palestine if you want to be argumentative about it)?"

Where do you want to begin? There were massacres in Safed in the 19th century, riots in the 1920s in Jaffa against the Jews, and Arabs killed 67 Jews in Hebron and 45 in Safed in 1929. Between 1939 and 41 the pro-Nazi Mufti of Jerusalem lived in Baghdad and incited the Arabs of Baghdad against the Jews and this resulted in 180 Jews being murdered in the Farhoud pogrom of 1941.

gnuneo
11 October 2008 at 02:41

right - all after the Zionist Program began, i note. Presumably that is just coincidence?

"Genetic studies have shown Ashkenazim and Sephardim have more in common with each other than with the Gentile populations they lived amongst. Educate yourself."

genetic studies have also shown a very strong link between Palestinians and Jews - not really amazingly surprising.

fairplay
11 October 2008 at 09:42

"Genetic studies have shown Ashkenazim and Sephardim have more in common with each other than with the Gentile populations they lived amongst. Educate yourself."

i darent comment

so davka, are these guys mad as well?

http://www.nkusa.org/

davka
12 October 2008 at 09:54

Yes, Neturei Karta are a tiny lunatic fringe with almost no support amongst Jews. .

Steve Brook
13 October 2008 at 15:39

What is the point of constantly rehashing atrocity figures about who murdered who and when? The point surely is to see both Israelis and Palestinians (however defined) as peoples who eventually will have to live with each other in two clearly-defined states, and plan activities towards this goal. Who fired the first shot is utterly irrelevant.

fairplay
13 October 2008 at 15:52

but the point is before the zionists came they used to live together in peace

Steve Brook
15 October 2008 at 06:18

Playing the Blame Game is a complete waste of time, and lives too. So the Zionists are evil bastards? Fine. Hamas are evil bastards too? Also fine. Where do you go from there?

fairplay
16 October 2008 at 13:57

you go to the reason why hamas are evil bastards. the same reason people in the uk would be if their land was invaded and taken over and they were made to feel sub-human.

hang on a minute. thats happening right now isnt it?

vildechaye
17 October 2008 at 15:28

Jews and Zionism - Two Narratives (by Eve Garrard)

Some anti-Zionist books by Jewish authors have just been favourably reviewed in the New Statesman. The reviewer, Geoffrey Wheatcroft, embeds his comments on the individual books into a matrix of more general reflection on the relationship between Jews and Zionism. But inside his general account there are, in fact, two quite different narratives struggling to get out.

This is the first one: in Wheatcroft's view, the whole topic of Zionism is a uniquely overheated one, partly because Zionists are so partisan, and so ready to accuse those who disagree with them of being anti-Semitic or, alternatively, self-hating Jews. But they and we need to remember that right from the start, many Jews and Jewish leaders have been extremely hostile to the Zionist project. In the aftermath of the Holocaust, when Israel was established, it was morally impossible for Jews to disown it, but now once again many Western Jews are eloquently speaking out, in Jewish anguish, against the Zionist project. Their setting aside of group loyalty, and their concern for the sufferings of the Palestinians, is a fine thing: it represents a return to noble Jewish traditions of justice and individual conscience. But those Jews who originally rejected Zionism realized that it's also bad for Jews, and some of these modern writers are aware of this too. Zionism is underpinned by a particular psychology: a Jewish sense of embattled exclusion (partly the result of paying too much attention to Holocaust museums and studies and in general the whole 'Holocaust industry'). But this sense of isolation is misplaced and indeed paranoid. Jews don't need Zionism - they don't need to engage in this colonialist and imperialist project, since as a matter of fact Jews have, and always have had, plenty of friends. As Wheatcroft, a self-declared philo-Semite, remarks, 'We're all in this together'.

However, intertwined with this rather upbeat and sunlit narrative, there's

vildechaye
17 October 2008 at 15:29

Part 2:

However, intertwined with this rather upbeat and sunlit narrative, there's another one, altogether darker and more disturbing. In this part of the story, Zionism is a brutalizing and violent ideology whose supporters falsify the history of Jewish opposition to Israel, and bully Jews and others into observing a Mafia-like code of silence about Israel's wrongdoings. In spite of this pressure, many Jews on the left are becoming hostile to Zionism, though regrettably there is no sign of this happening on the right. It is, in Wheatcroft's view, an unhealthy situation if Jews who are anti-Zionist are drawn exclusively from the left; it would be much better if an intelligent right-wing critique of Israel were also to (re)appear, thereby ensuring that opinion about Israel isn't divided into the left who are against it, and the right who support it. Wheatcroft agrees with those Jews who, from early in the 20th century up to the present day, have felt that a Jewish nationalist movement established in Palestine is a calamity for the Jewish people. As they see it, the Zionist picture of Jews in the diaspora as being homeless will encourage other people to regard the Jews in their countries as strangers, as outsiders. This will undermine the standing of Jews as citizens and nationals of the lands in which they were born, a standing which they have worked so hard to gain. Indeed Wheatcroft, as an 'old-fashioned philo-Semitic assimilationist', tells us that for some time he has believed that it would be disastrous 'if any large public controversy were to develop in which all, or even most, Jewish opinion were on one side and all non-Jewish opinion on the other', and it may be that support for Israel is just such a controversy.

Now both of these narratives seem to me to be highly questionable in their own right. Why is Jewish collective loyalty in conflict with the rulings of justice and conscience, when other national groups aren't open to this criticism? PART 3 to come.

vildechaye
17 October 2008 at 15:30

PART 3

Now both of these narratives seem to me to be highly questionable in their own right. Why is Jewish collective loyalty in conflict with the rulings of justice and conscience, when other national groups aren't open to this criticism? Why is it so important for Jews not to be supported by right-wingers, when many other groups have similar support without attracting similar admonition? If there is, as Wheatcroft claims, a Zionist 'code of omerta' against Jewish criticism of Israel, why are the self-described 'independent Jewish voices' whom he praises so easy to find in newsprint and in the universities?

But the most striking feature of these two narratives is that, as even a cursory analysis reveals, they contradict each other. Wheatcroft doesn't make explicit his reasons for thinking it would be so disastrous if Jews found themselves isolated in some large controversy, so that everyone else disagreed with them. But given his immediate endorsement of the view that Zionism undermines the standing of Jews as citizens and nationals in their native countries, it's hard to avoid the inference that the disaster in question would be the revival of hostility against them. Anti-Semitism is a light sleeper, he seems to imply, and Jews should be careful to avoid adopting views - such as the view that Jews have a right to self-determination - which everyone else finds abhorrent, for fear of waking it from its sleep.

I wonder if Wheatcroft would be happy to say to other minority groups (blacks, say, or homosexuals) or even to members of majority groups (such as feminist women), that they shouldn't collectively embrace unpopular views for fear of making others hate them; that the price of acceptance is and should be conformity to the dominant view? (That isn't a rhetorical question, by the way - I would truly like to know the answer to it.) Part 4 to come.

vildechaye
17 October 2008 at 15:31

Part 4

But I have no reason to believe that Wheatcroft generally recommends to minority groups a political position so numbingly hostile to independent thought and progressive reform. It seems likely that this prescription is one he reserves for Jews, perhaps because hostility towards them has in the recent past been so murderous, on so huge a scale, that it's especially important to prevent it recurring. But in that case, the claims and assumptions of Wheatcroft's first narrative collapse.

If anti-Semitism is so near to the surface of Western societies that it may be revived by Jewish dissent from conventional political views, then the claim that Jews needn't feel excluded or embattled, that they shouldn't take the Holocaust as being so important and instructive an event in Jewish history, seems to be obviously false. One of the lessons of the long persecution of the Jews, culminating but not, alas, ending in the Holocaust, is that a state of your own is a very useful thing to have – it can save a lot of lives. Where Wheatcroft sees colonialism and settlers, others see a life-raft state, a place where Jews can't be persecuted and murdered just because they're Jews - or if they are, their state will defend them rather than ignore or even instigate the persecution.

Much of Wheatcroft's account of Zionism rests on a particular diagnosis of Jewish psychology as inclining to a paranoid and obsessive response to the Holocaust. But those people who are fortunate enough to have undisputed citizenship in a state the majority population of which consists of people like them are perhaps not best placed to realize what the absence of such support is like, or how significant that absence can be. Wheatcroft's view that the hard-won standing of Jews in the countries of the diaspora is still fragile, tenuous, able to be upset by controversial views or behaviour, is flatly at odds with his claim that a Jewish sense of isolation is misplaced and paranoid.

Part 5 to come

vildechaye
17 October 2008 at 15:33

Part 5

The principal reason which he gives for this latter claim, and more generally for his view that Zionism is unnecessary for the well-being of Jews, is that Jews have, and always have had, plenty of friends. I am happy to agree with him on this point. Some of these friends of the Jews I have, like many others, read about with admiration and gratitude. Others I have had the pleasure and honour to know in my own life. These are admirable and often very remarkable people, and there are many of them, spread through all societies. However it's an obvious fact that the presence of such friends has not been enough to save Jews from persecution, and worse, in the past; and it's difficult to be sure that the future will always be markedly different. In these circumstances, and in a world in which the nation-state is the normal form of political organization, Jews have both the need for, and the right of, self-determination, just as Palestinians do, just as Japanese do, just as Indians do, just as Britons do.

I don't know, and I don't believe that anyone knows, whether a time will come when Jews once again have to face murderous persecution. I certainly don't know that it won't, and I don't think that anyone else knows that either, particularly in a world in which some states explicitly threaten to wipe Israel off the map, and others countenance and foster viciously anti-Semitic attitudes. The destruction of the European Jews was not the first genocide of the 20th century, nor was it the last: racist persecution and mass murder are a part - an appalling part - of the human repertoire.

Part 6 (end) to come.

vildechaye
17 October 2008 at 15:34

Part 6

In these circumstances, the light dismissal of any need for Jewish self-determination, the completely unargued assumption that Jewish group loyalty is something that justice and conscience should oppose, and the worried advice about keeping shtum so as not to annoy the goyim, constitute a set of views each one of which is independently questionable, and which jointly amount to a blatant contradiction. (Eve Garrard)

gnuneo
21 October 2008 at 14:35

vildechaye: an interesting piece.

there is however a rather rather large pink elephant sitting in the middle of it - you have totally ignored the existence of the Palestinians. Let us assume that instead of occupying Palestine, the Zionist project had accepted the proposal from the Brazilian Govt to have a large chunk of land within Brazil to build the modern Israel - would there now be a danger to Israeli existence? Would there be hostility from the entire World against its existence? Would the Jewish People have a secure, prosperous and safe homeland?

no, no, and yes.

it is remarkable how often Zionists such as yourself, indicative of the deep programming you have suffered, so totally dehumanise the Palestinians that they no longer even exist in your mind, have no effects, and who's needs are so far below the Jewish People's that they are worthy of even less mention than that of Israeli farm animals. Fortunately, the rest of the human race does not share your racism and genocidal beliefs, and neither it seems do a growing number of Jews themselves. You may claim that this is "mere anti-Semitism", rather than compassion for fellow humans, and no doubt the Afrikaners also attempted the same line when the world turned against the Apartheid practised there.

its not washing however.

fairplay
22 October 2008 at 09:45

glad you mentioned the afrikaners. its unbelievable how much media coverage and anti apartheid sentiment there was amongst the people in the entertainment industry where south africa was concerned but its deemed fine for the likes of paul mcartney to play in israel.

you cant tell who pulls the strings in the music, tv and film industries can you

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