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Robert Service

Published 07 June 2007

Communism destroyed millions of lives, but its critics are now branded "neocons". Why has the left's poisoned love affair with it endured?

Communism, like nuclear fuel, has a long afterlife. In country after country across Europe - from Russia to Albania - it has been discredited for its record in power. No government in Africa or the Americas subscribes to it except the Castro regime in Cuba. In Asia, the communist flag is waved in Vietnam and China without anyone denying that the economic future lies with capitalism; only North Korea stands by the basic precepts of Marxism-Leninism.

What happened in the October 1917 revolution in Russia was an ideological bank robbery. Its leaders were nothing if not daring. Lenin and his party took over a state and then declared that no other kind of socialism was worthy of the name. They instituted a red terror. They seized hold of an entire economy, persecuted all religious faith, imposed a one-ideology media and treated society as a resource to be mobilised on their whim. These are historical facts that no communist in the 1920s sought to deny. Quite the opposite: the facts were advertised by the Communist International as the only way to do away with "bourgeois rule" and induce the birth of true socialism.

A minority of socialists around the world accepted this case, formed communist parties and joined the Communist International. None of these parties, except for the Mongolian one, stood a serious chance of coming to power until after the Second World War. Geopolitics changed after 1945. The Yugoslav communists had won supremacy in wartime. The Soviet army, being the occupying force elsewhere in eastern Europe, imposed a communist state order east of the river Elbe. In 1949, China experienced a communist military and political take-over. Ten years later, Cuba went the same way.

In doing the research for my book Comrades: A World History of Communism, I tried to find whether there was a basic pattern to the regimes that resulted. The conclusion was a stark one. In all cases of durable state communism, there was some approximation to the Soviet "model". A single party kept itself in power without concern for electoral mandate. A nomenklatura system of personnel appointment was introduced. Religion was harassed. National traditions were emasculated. The rule of law was flouted. The political police was ubiquitous and ruthless; labour camps were established. Foreign travel permits were made hard to come by. Radio and TV broadcasts from abroad were banned. A prim public culture was installed.

This was the pattern despite the many national differences. Popular music in Cuba remained lively and beautiful even though its exponents could not take themselves and their instruments to other countries. In Poland, the Catholic Church was allowed to function in the open. In China, there was some pride - except during the cultural revolution of the late 1960s - in those emperors who had governed a unified nation.

The new communist states, like the Soviet Union before them, undoubtedly engineered rapid industrial growth. The exception was Cambodia under Pol Pot, who emptied the towns of their entire populations. The same states fostered programmes of mass education. They also facilitated the promotion of people who had previously suffered from negative social discrimination. Reading and numeracy flourished. While capitalist economies failed to solve the problems of unemployment, everyone could find work under communism and had access to free health care and cheap housing.

All this I mentioned repeatedly in my book, but it was not quite what one reviewer, the Guardian's Seumas Milne, wanted. He denied that I stated that communist leaders unleashed a drive towards industrial and cultural modernisation. Next, he alleged that I followed a "neoconservative" agenda. He also maintained that the so-called "revisionist" school of Soviet history was not getting a fair wind in the western media.

His Stalinoid form and content of argument involved deliberate misrepresentation. It would seem that Milne and his like consider it fair game to denounce anybody who comes to a considered anti-communist standpoint as a neocon. This is a shoddy way to handle a serious political discussion. If this farrago had not come from the editor of the comment pages of one of our national newspapers, it would not be worth bothering about. What is more, Milne is typical of a more general trend that retains a nostalgia for communism, and it is a trend that ought to be repudiated.

Milne rails against people who describe Stalin's Soviet Union or Mao's cultural revolution as totalitarian. His preference is for the alleged even-handedness of the "revisionist" school. What he has in mind here is the body of work written since the 1970s which stresses that not everything in communist politics was controlled by the supreme leadership. It would be ludicrous to claim that Stalin or Mao directed and controlled every aspect of thought and behaviour. I know of no one who does this. Communist states were indisputably very far from a condition of total regulation from above. In fact, they were more chaotic in many ways than are most liberal democracies.

The reasons for this have long been obvious. Liberal democracies, despite all their faults, have lots of advantages. They have a pluralist culture and free media. They have an independent judiciary. They allow competition among political parties. Such features provide mechanisms for the correction of abuse that were largely absent under communist rule. The result is that such democracies have possessed more orderly societies than communist ones. Work discipline was generally poor under communism. Apathy about politics was widespread. Bureaucratic ineffectiveness was rampant.

What is more, it was no coincidence that durable communist states maintained a heavy load of repression. Millions of citizens always wanted things that incurred official disapproval. They hated the disrespect for national traditions, culture and religion; they were attracted by non-communist ideologies. In order to hold on to power, the communists used the secret police and labour camps. Some leaderships were more brutal than others. Life was different under Brezhnev and Andropov from what it had been under Stalin. And Cuba has held a smaller number of political prisoners as a proportion of its population than was true of the Soviet Union. Nevertheless, all communist states were dictatorial, and it was no coincidence that they practised radio and TV jamming and made it difficult for their peoples to travel abroad.

The proof of the pudding came in 1989-91 in eastern Europe and the Soviet Union. The old cultural and political controls were loosened. Free public discussion and organisation were permitted, and in country after country there emerged a challenge to the ruling nomenklatura. Wherever contestable elections were held, the state order of communism fell apart.

Some "revisionists" denied that the savagery of the great terror in the Soviet Union or the cultural revolution in China was attributable to Stalin or Mao. Several of them supported ridiculously low figures for the number of deaths and arrests. There was also an endeavour in some quarters to lay stress on the positive economic and educational achievements of regimes, rather than on the persistent repression.

The United Kingdom, of course, never had a communist revolution. Only a handful of communist MPs were ever elected. The Communist Party occasionally did well in local elections, but it never won more than a tiny proportion of the vote in national elections. We now know just how closely it was supervised from Moscow. It received money on a regular basis. It received guidance on policy, and there was trouble for those British communist leaders who stepped out of line until the 1980s. By and large, the Kremlin used the party as an instrument for propaganda in favour of Soviet foreign policy. There was no serious effort to turn it into an insurrectionary force.

But what if the CPGB or any of the small anti-Soviet communist groups were to have attracted greater support and come to power? What would have happened next? By no stretch of the imagination can one imagine that communism's political opponents would have folded up their tents and withdrawn from the field. The communists would never have enjoyed universal popularity. Without force it is hard to imagine how a British communist regime would have lasted very long if it disrupted the usual workings of the economy and offended social and religious sentiments. Communist ministers would then have faced the same choices as presented themselves to previous communist regimes elsewhere.

The point is that repression was not some aberrant phenomenon under communist rule around the world. It was ideologically condoned in advance; it proved also to be a practical necessity for the consolidation of communist states. Communists from the 1920s through to the 1940s were frank about this: they eulogised dictatorship. Subsequently, they avoided debate on the matter or else contended that they would break with the models provided by historical communist states. They never explained how they would introduce communism except by massive force. The ghosts of the victims of all those bloody purges cry out for us to reject the printed apologias for the communist past.

Robert Service's "Comrades: A World History of Communism" is published by Macmillan

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41 comments from readers

ZSUZSANNA CLARK
08 June 2007 at 19:48

Unlike you, Mr Service I was actually born and bought up in a communist country. The truth is that life in Hungary in the 1970s and 80s was much better for the majority of people than it is in the 'free' capitalist jungle of today. No one denies that great crimes were committed by the likes of Stalin and Mao, but you make no effort to talk about the positive achivements of communism ( there was far more than just free health care and housing) and the life of ordinary working class people after 1956.

Seumas Milne is right: it is time for a more nuanced account of what happened under communism, something old cold war hawks with your black and white thinking are incapable of producing.

Byron
09 June 2007 at 20:15

Nostalgia for the old communist system is not unknown, as Ms. Clark's comment shows. There will always be people willing to overlook anything and everything, if only they can be taken care of by the state, at whatever low level.

The question is how many Hungarians would vote to bring that system back again. The Terror Museum in Budapest and the strictly-for-laughs park full of communist-era statuary outside of town indicate the answer with great clarity.

kareldepauw
11 June 2007 at 10:04

'While capitalist economies failed to solve the problems of unemployment, everyone could find work under communism and had access to free health care and cheap housing.'

This is far too generous! Under the old regime in Poland, friends and relatives of mine had to live, sometimes for decades, in cramped, dysfunctional, flats with their parents because there was no alternative accommodation available. And the quality of the health care often left a lot to be desired, unless one was able and willing to offer bribes, preferably in western currency. As for the much vaunted full employment - the old joke, 'we pretend to work and the state pretends to pay us' was only too painfully true.

ZSUZSANNA CLARK
11 June 2007 at 10:43

Opinion poll after opinion poll shows that most Hungarians think that life was better under Kadar, something even Viktor Orban, the staunchly anti-communist leader of the Fidesz opposition party has conceded. Byron, nobody is denying that terror took place pre-1956, but why don't you concentrate on what happened in the 70s and 80s?

Jaroslaw
11 June 2007 at 12:54

Dear Ms. Clark,

Regarding the opinion polls you refer to, it is generally observed that most respondents are guided by a nostalgia for the past. Everything is better in hindsight, because it was the time of our youth... I also grew up under Communism (in Poland) and, well, martial law in 1981 was quite an adventure for a teenager.

One should also point out that by measures of both income and the Human Development Index (longevity, quality of life, etc.), the previously captive nations are doing much better than in 1989. I am aware that there was a period of regression in the 1990s, partly due to the traumatic but necessary new experience of freedom and responsibility.

2. Students of Hungarian history are aware that following the 1956 rebellion the government relaxed its economic restrictions, allowing greater prosperity in return for an end to independent political involvement. As a result, Hungary was the richest of all Soviet-occupied countries during the period you mention. Moreover, focusing on these two decades in Hungary should not obscure the bigger picture of continuing Communist repression and diversion elsewhere. The years 1975-1989 were not so prosperous for the Soviet-sponsored states of Cambodia and Vietnam, for example.

Inkyone
11 June 2007 at 13:00

'Communism is Mans' inhumanity to Man and Capitalism is the reverse'. 'Secret police', 'labour camps' and ' a heavy dose of repression' have not been communist exclusives - 'capitalism' has had and has its fair share of repressive regimes. In many ways discussions based on theses old labels obscure as do labels like democratic socialism and globalism. The sort of society emerging in the UK and USA gives one pause for concern in this regard.

I would argue that a clearer perspective is provided by focusing on the struggle between egalitarian liberal democracy and stratified authoritarian plutocracy. If you have an overwhelming preference for egalitarian liberal democracy as I do (easily arguable as the rational preference - but then I am biased as should be 99 percent of a rational humanity) it is the old "prisoner's dilemma" writ large at the level of the species.

As an ending non sequitur - for those that style themselves as "neocons" and their apologists - they remind me of the old saying about the Holy Roman Empire, "It was neither Holy, nor Roman nor an Empire" - the neocons are neither "new" nor "conservative". I would humbly submit that "oldrecs" would be a more accurate label for these old reactionaries.

Sophia123
11 June 2007 at 13:02

At 9 years old the Romanian communist regime failed and I was really lucky to hear for the first time words like "truth", "freedom" , "equity". My most beautiful memory in that regime was : I was waiting for my mother, who was fighting along with a crowd in order to get some oranges . An orange sliped away. I picked it up and I wanted to give it to the men in the trucks who were unloading the merchandize. But they gave me that orange , and that big orange orange in that cold night was for me happiness. I think communism has affected the human essence of too many people, in many many ways. It's hard to cure the wounds of those people who endured so much. But at least now there is hope that we will find a cure for ourselves.

DriveByAbuser
11 June 2007 at 13:37

An interesting piece. I was once called a Neocon immediately after I had stated clearly that I though Invading Iraq was a ridiculously bad idea, but didn't think that the UK brought 7/7 on itself. I hadn't gone far enough in ameliorating the dogmatic views of one particular reactionary Islamist on the Guardian's CiF... so I’m a Neocon too.

( It then occurred to me that there have always been these inadequate Wolfy Smith types; in the 70s they'd have called you a "fascist pig". Right on brother. Same terms of posturing ridicule and political ineffectuality apply. )

One point of contention though - the cross-pollination of Cuban and Senegalese music in the 1960s led to the breathtakingly brilliant fusion of Latin American and West African styles that was typified by bands like Orchestra Baobab, whose Pirates Choice album remains one of the finest collections to ever emanate from Africa. This couldn't really have been possible without the flux between the two nations of the most committed and talented musicians... I guess Castro knew he could never tame that beast anyway...

jmikhael
11 June 2007 at 14:25

There certainly was repression in some Capitalist regimes (such as Iraq). This should not be seen as a point in disfavour of Capitalism. There will always be tyranny in every political system, and the only way to check it is through having a constitutional democracy, which is easiest to achieve with Capitalist systems. The interesting thing about Communism is that it is tautologically a tyranny. There is and was no Communist government in existence that did not grossly repress its population. And that repression, as Milne points out, always occured through labour camps, politcal prisons, execution and starvation. To deny that more deaths were caused by Communism than war in the 20th century is as bad as being a Holocaust denier.

DriveByAbuser
11 June 2007 at 14:35

"To deny that more deaths were caused by Communism than war in the 20th century is as bad as being a Holocaust denier."

Seconded.

PMcNamara
11 June 2007 at 15:44

Zsuzanna,

One must wonder if your fellow Eastern Bloc compatriots would feel a similar good-ole-days nostalgia – say for instance Ukrainians?

I’m eager to read Seumas Milne’s nuanced account of the Ukrainian Terror Famine – six million people starved and murdered in order to keep the Soviet vanguard in Moscow well-fed.

Bread was cheap in Moscow back then, but it was grown in the blood-drenched soils of Ukraine. But I’m sure there’s some nugget of gold for revisionist to mine.

Look at Castro’s Western apologists, they’re quick to note Cuba’s free education – all the way through graduate school, if you’re a good apparatchik – and the island’s marvelous dental care.

Jaroslaw
11 June 2007 at 16:31

Lnkyone, when you write that "'capitalism' has had and has its fair share of repressive regimes," I do wish you would provide some examples. Perhaps you mean Franco's Spain? Or some of the South American regimes? I would quibble that for the most part the government controlled most of the means of production even in those countries usually tagged as "right-wing," therefore they were not capitalist, i.e., it was not capital that predominated. Please look at "The Road to Serfdom" by F. Hayek and books by Milton Freedman like "Free to Choose," which explore the important connection between freedom of capital and freedom of conscience.

I agree about your point about the conflict being now between democracy and plutocracy. I write these words from Saigon, Vietnam, and your distinction is vivid here. But that was not the choice we had in the 20th century... At commentarymagazine dot com you can read a seminal essay by Jeanne Kirkpatrick about the distinction between "plutocracy" (as authoritarianism) and communism. She says that the former can evolve, the latter can only endure. It is interesting to look at this essay in hindsight (it was written about 30 years ago), Vietnam's example (and China's) seems to suggest that many Communist countries devolve to plutocracies before, perhaps, becoming democracies...

Jmikhael, I am at a loss about what to make of your comment that Iraq (under S. Hussein, I assume) was a capitalist regime. It was by any definition a regimented state-controlled economy, with no freedom for capital.

charlesfrith
11 June 2007 at 19:30

Communism destroyed millions of lives, but its critics are now branded "neocons".

This is a deeply disingenuous statement. Risible even, Its shows a misunderstanding of Neoconservatism (liberals mugged by reality) and more importantly why communism has yet to be assessed as model outside of the wealth creation metric. Its not hard to tell greedy people. Not hard at all.

Jon6400
11 June 2007 at 21:39

Does Mr. Service think we are idiots. What a typically "neocon" attempt at argument via distraction.

Yes... so now we're supposed self-censor our dislike of neocons because we're really just responding to... what was it? Nostalgia for communism! What a ludicrous suggestion. Criticism of neocon stupidities and nostalgia for communism (I've never met anyone who has felt this peculiar emotion) are entirely separate issues. Only a complete moron or a man who is hopelessly dishonest intellectually would suggest such a thing (but then intellectual dishonesty is the sine qua non of neoconservatism).

jmikhael
12 June 2007 at 00:44

Jaroslow, I meant Hussein's Iraq in the same way as you presented the other, so-called "Capitalist regimes". They were supported by the Americans because that person shared and initially supported certain ideologies with the Americans, including capitalism (and the Americans supported these tyrants because it was the lesser of two evils - democracy no longer being possible in those countries). But you are right that they often degenerate to serfdom, mainly because, as we all know, "absolute power corrupts absolutely". The tyranny that follows from these examples occurs because of the lack of democracy, and not, as many tragically associate, because of their original support for capitalism.

Another important point is that even if Communism did not lead to the brutal oppression of tyrants (as it always does), it would still fail because of its completely mistaken economic/ethical theories. It is shocking that even though volumes of work present the worst events of the 20th century being due to Communism, and that the world saw sharp decreases in all negative indicators (number of wars, deaths, starvations) after the fall of Communism, that there is still a significant number of followers. I guess we'll always have college freshmen...

girondistnyc
12 June 2007 at 02:38

Zsuzana -- the question isn't whether life was better in the 80s versus the 90s. Unquestionably the shock of moving rapidly from one system to another had some devastating consequences for some people -- pensioners and those in late middle age, for example, had a (failing and creaky) safety net taken away in exchange for opportunities they were in no position to take advantage of. Many intellectuals (particularly in Hungary) had a degree of status and security that proved difficult to replicate after 1989.

But most historians don't believe that the "decent" communist countries like Kadar's Hungary or Tito's Yugoslavia could have maintained the 70s or 80s standards over the short term. The heavy industrial approach wasn't working anymore and communism proved completely unable to move past the steel and coal era into the electronics and computers era. Its noticeable that many Soviet satellites were reliant on funds from the wicked capitalist west by the 80s to satiate consumer demand (especially Poland until they couldn't pay anymore). As for the USSR itself, it was periodically reliant on the USA and Canada to feed its people -- a distinct decline in autarky since the Tsars. And putting aside the fact that the glorious rose tinted Kadar era was unsustainable, if you want to focus on the problems that followed 1989 it should also be acknowledged how many of them were a direct result of the communist system. Factories were located where military or political concerns dictated they should be built in the 50s -- once you expose this type of setup to any type of efficiency test its going to be a disaster. Building steel plants in a Hungary without the necessary raw material inputs because that is what the plan demanded was always going to lead to unemployment and insecurity.

The real question is whether Hungary or any other Eastern Bloc country would have been better off if communism had never been imposed in the first place, and its frankly unbelievable that any serious person could argue that they wouldn't have been. Compare West Germany versus East Germany. Look at the environmental damage done throughout the old Warsaw pact. Benefits to the working class? Spain, Ireland and Greece were as poor or poorer than the Czechs at least before the war and they didn't have anything close to democratic capitalism for the first couple of decades of the cold war -- yet they did ultimately embrace capitalism and all of these societies now have fairly well distributed lifestyle gains and GDPs that dwarf those from the East. To claim its all EU money doesn't dispose of this question -- capitalistic EU nations generated surpluses that could be spent on new entrants, while the USSR increasingly robbed its satellites rather than helping them.

Note that all of the above is largely focused on economic performance -- and one of the "nicer" (post 1956) East Bloc countries at that. You don't really need to go into the secret police, Stasi, Ceausescu, Gulags, Krondstadt, Pol Pot etc. as by its own, Marxist materialist terms communism was a dismal failure.

Jmonroe64 -- It boggles my mind, but yes there are still nostalgics for communism out there -- read the posts from the beginning since the first poster proves why Mr. Service needed to write this piece. The point of the piece, by the way, is rather obviously not to shield neo-conservatives from attacks (they are only one strand of intellectual opponents of communism) but rather to point out that criticism and discussion of the sins of communism is a perfectly defensible topic on its own that shouldn't be invalidated by ideologically charged (and incorrect) name-calling.

Terry
12 June 2007 at 02:57

jmonroe64:

What elegant, Insightful rhetoric! It almost matches the subtlety of comrade charlesfrith's "Its not hard to tell greedy people" comment!

becket03
12 June 2007 at 04:20

lnkyone:

"Egalitarian liberal..." an oxymoron, like giving racehorses the freedom to run, but forcing them all cross the finish line at the same time.

"Equality, I spoke the word as if a wedding vow,

Ah but I was so much older then,

I'm younger than that now."

My Back Pages Bob Dylan

I'll never be the poet Bob Dylan was and is. Never be his equal. On matters of poetry and music, I submit myself to his authority. It gives me great joy to do so.

So also for the millions upon millions of distinctions among human beings. Distinctions of age, time, place, interest, talent, luck, circumstance, heritage, culture, influence, chance, study, discipline and many more of the serendipitous forces at work in that most complex of all structures in the universe -- the human brain.

And yet Mr Lnkyone asks us to endow the lumbering, faceless STATE with the omnicompetence required to sort out such distinctions fairly, behind a Rawlsian "veil of ignorance" about what's different between you and me.

Go straight to the Gulag -- do not pass Go.

beckett

Dan Macek
12 June 2007 at 12:13

ZSUZSANNA - like you, I was born and bought up in a Communist country (the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic). Unlike you, I literally bask in the joys of the market economy whenever an employee in the service sector is polite to me. Full employment is an utter horror. People that have no reason to cherish their jobs treat you like filth. Roughly one in two Czechs continue to tell pollsters that they preferred the social certainties of the former regime over free enterprise. Luckily, the rest of us are now free to dismiss these incorrigible whiners as either malicious or lazy or both. No amount of historical revisionism at the Guardian or the New York Times can rob the Free World of its epochal victory over worldwide Communist tyranny. Hallelujah!

abogart
12 June 2007 at 12:56

How many millions of lives has capitalism destroyed and how many does it continue to destroy? Perhaps less Cold-War-era-driven thought and more attention to the criticisms Marx made of capitalim would help alleviate the present state of affairs? Though, to be sure, what passed for communism over the last century was no duck-walk, I would nonetheless wager that capitalism is by far the more destructive force. Surface level analyses will always have a tinge of bitterness, as many of the comments above do. Pity...

Dan Macek
12 June 2007 at 14:11

As Lenin said, "the masses vote with their feet". Believe it or not, the Berlin Wall was actually not built to prevent immigrants escaping the horrors of capitalism from getting into the GDR.

MlR
12 June 2007 at 15:13

"The tyranny that follows from these examples occurs because of the lack of democracy, and not, as many tragically associate, because of their original support for capitalism. "

Jmikael, regardless of who supports it, a state is either capitalist or it isn't. Iraq wasn't.

It also, though most Europeans are unaware of it, Saddam's Iraq was also an ally of the Soviets longer than it was of the United States. So even in that respect it would be closer to a 'Communist' country than a 'Capitalist' one.

MlR
12 June 2007 at 15:14

The US supported it briefly in the 1980s against Islamist Iran, not the USSR (which gave Iraq the majority of its weapons).

DriveByAbuser
12 June 2007 at 15:25

The reason that the Russians always vetoed UN security council proposed action against Saddamm was the enormous amount of weaponry Iraq still owed Russia for (several billions of dollars)

Gustave
12 June 2007 at 18:17

Girondistnyc:-

"Ireland...didn't have anything close to democratic capitalism for the first couple of decades of the cold war..."

Excuse me?

Jaroslaw
12 June 2007 at 18:39

"How many millions of lives has capitalism destroyed..." --As compared to what? This earthly existence is not heaven. People also die under capitalism... but this self-correcting system creates more prosperity and increases longevity better, by far, than anything we have tried so far...

sisu
12 June 2007 at 20:58

For what it's worth, I stayed in the Ukraine for 1.5 months. I was told by the people that I spoke with that their standard of living was better during the days of communism they had lived through. They felt nostalgic for those times.

Doug1943
13 June 2007 at 00:10

The terrible thing about democracy is that it lets people put thier money and their lives where their mouth is.

So if all these people in Hungary and Ukraine are really yearning for a return to Communism, why don't some of them form a new Communist Party and get voted in?

I once spent some time in a place with free food and clothing and shelter and health care, very well-regulated, no worries about getting your car tax paid or what to have for dinner. In some ways it was a stress-free environment and contrasted favorably to my present condition. But I wouldn't go back voluntarily and neither will the Hungarians or Ukrainians.

girondistnyc
13 June 2007 at 06:19

Gustave -- I was talking about the DeValera years, which in retrospect is grossly unfair to to the Free State's democratic credentials--Fianna Fail may have dominated but FG was hardly treated as the opponents of Franco or the Greek junta were. But Dev's vision of a autarkic agricultural paradise was hardly congruent with capitalism in a European social democratic form, let alone savage neo-liberalism (and it wasn't that far from Franco's reactionary Catholic economic vision in practice for many of the same reasons -- people made money but there was an era of stagnation). It was only later that Ireland embraced a more open and less regulated economy. And that is roughly when net emigration plummeted and the Celtic tiger emerged.

The point is that the Irish countryside in, say, the late 1940s wasn't radically better off then rural communities in Hungary (direct war damage aside). Despite the late start (and with the benefit of foreign investment and EU money from capitalist states) Ireland has seen phenomenal growth--compare and contrast with those that were stuck behind the wall. But the tie to Franco and the junta was strained as far as democracy goes--apologies because it really was out of order.

Abogart: "no duck walk" -- the duck walk in question involved the largest famines in history (Great leap forward and the collectivization famine in the USSR--one from pure ideologically driven incompetence and another from the same plus ethnic and political malice on Stalins part). It didn't stop in the 50s as Zsuzanna said either -- Band Aid was in retrospect reacting to a terror famine caused by Mengistu's communist principles and the authoritarian logic of communism. Not to mention little things like Katyn, the Gulag, the cultural revolution, the Killing Fields and Sendero Luminoso's deranged campaign. People died in vast numbers. You can't skip over it with a pithy phrase-- particularly since there are no examples of communist (as opposed to ordinary decent socialist) regimes that didn't, at minimum, destroy freedom of expression, shoot enemies of the people and establish a police state if they stayed in power for more than a couple of years. None.

I wouldn't cavalierly write off the sins of "my" side of the debate by a cheap phrase. The US backing Pinochet, the ethnic slaughter disguised as anti-communism in Guatemala, Vietnam etc. were horrible events that need to be taken into account and debated. They were sins against fundamental human decency and should be taken to heart. And were no bloody duck walk as well, I suppose. They are not justified or excused by the fact that the other side did worse things, but I would at this point in the game at least expect that we wouldn't have people still pretending that they were the only sins of the cold war and passing off the deaths of millions with a bon mot.

Richard B
13 June 2007 at 11:23

Some thoughts about communism not just as a state system, but as an influence in democratic politics.

Being of the left, from a family of the left, I grew up with stories of my grandfather's frustration, as a union man, at Moscow-paid CP interference; with my mother's generation's memories, as her friends died in Spain at the hands of their supposed allies the CP.

The Daily Worker loudly praised the Nazi-Soviet Pact, and communists both sabotaged and deserted once the war began, in the name of their higher truth.

Nothing drew my mother's contempt more than the reappearance of the man she had known as Jimmy Miller, CP loudmouth then deserter, as Ewen McColl, full of songs of the common man. Con-man, surely.

In my turn, I certainly encountered such things. Though by the 1960/70s the CP was a spent force in Britain the same sort of zealot - IS and WRP and the like - were unscrupulous and dedicated. They mouthed anti-capitalism, but spent far more time trying to undermine fellow leftists. It is no exaggeration to say that you were far more likely to have your meeting secretly taped by a zealot than by Special Branch.

To object to this has always drawn fire, and each generation has its set slogans - " false consciousness" or "witch hunt" or now "neocon".

Josie Nguyen
13 June 2007 at 16:33

I have lived through two regimes during my early adult years (until 30 years of age); a very imperfect capitalist style dictatorship (in South Vietnam supported by the US) and a Marxist-Leninist dictatorship (the current Vietnamese regime). I now live in a democratic and free capitalist country called Canada. I wouldn't trade life in Canada for anything else in the world. And if I was forced to make a choice between the former corrupt Vietnamese regime of the South and the current Marxist-Leninist style of government, my choice is obvious - little freedom under the former South Vietnam is still better, far better by at least a factor of 10 to 1, to the current Marxist regime with no freedom and the Communist party is prepared to mercilessly crush any individuals, any groups, associations that show the slightest sign of wanting freedom of speech or freedom of any kind in general. If I'm poor in a free capitalist society at least I can hope to better myself in whatever way I can for myself and for my children. But in a Communist country, your future is tied to your family's tie to the Communist party. You are either born to prosper or born to be condemned for life. Vietnam has 84 million people and 2 million Communist party members and the arithmetic tells you a clear story; who are the winners and who are the losers under a Marxist regime.

saintonge
13 June 2007 at 22:06

So, what's a little mass murder compared to the important thing: Zsussanna Clark made out all right. The slaughter of all those millions was worth it, because her comfort was worth more than their lives.

If I hadn't read this, I wouldn't have believed it.

saintonge
13 June 2007 at 22:11

jmikhael:

Saddam Hussein's Iraq was not a capitalist country. Saddam's explicite model and ideal to aspire to was Stalin's Russia.

Go read up on the man before making further such comments, please.

Norman Hanscombe
14 June 2007 at 03:30

As a perhaps innately sceptical, but none the less extremely curious non-believer, growing up in Australia during the forties, I had what I then mistakenly thought to be the misfortune of being part of a heavily involved Communist family, living in a Catholic working class ghetto, attending a W.A.S.P. Primary school, plus having parents many of whose closest friends were Jewish. On the plus side, however, I learn two things.

They couldn't all be right, but they were all capable of sincerely believing they were right. Eventually I concluded they were all wrong; but this in no way affected their sincerity. Reading many of the comments on what I'd seen as a thoughtful piece by Robert Service, brought back those childhood memories. What a comfort to know things haven't changed? Many of his "critics" responses were just like the "good old days". The logical basis for "True Belief" doesn't matter for genuine "True Believers". Having some form of "religious faith" is still what counts most. Some have a theistic faith, others a secular faith --- but both varieties bask in the comfort of a certainty which is operates on the basis of the reverse of normal analytical methods. Both first decide upon a conclusion with which they're comfortable, then fit their "evidence" into apparent support for that desired conclusion.

Isn't progress wonderful?

Josie Nguyen
14 June 2007 at 12:55

The very fact that we can exchange ideas in a place like this, with little to no worry about being monitored by an army of government cyber-police ready to catch and jail those "reactionaries", is a testament to the right of freedom of speech that people living under the remnants of Communism such as Vietnam, North Korea, China, and Cuba do not enjoy. Critics of capitalism sometimes forget that and they tend to criticize the imperfections of capitalism that is devoid of this context. Communists are very skillful in exploiting this. They translate criticisms of the left from the Western world toward capitalism to show to their people as evidence of how rotten capitalism is. And yet these very same communists would have no hesitation in rolling out red carpets to welcome "foreign direct investment" from the very corporations that they said they so despise. The remnants of the Communist world has degenerated into a state of affair that is the worst of both worlds - a politically oppressive police state and a crony capitalist economy in which party officials go to bed with big corporations as a watch dog to guard against unionism and environmentalism. The two most rapidly growing economies in Asia (and in the world in terms of percentage growth of GDP) are China and Vietnam are vivid examples of the new Communism - a combination of a police state and crony capitalism wearing a socialist outfit.

oldlady
14 June 2007 at 16:09

Wow! Just reading all the comments served to illustrate Mr. Service's point. I felt like I was back in a late-night dormitory b------t session in a Northeastern liberal arts college during the 1960s. Talk about nostalgia!

Dan Macek
15 June 2007 at 12:21

You go and tell them, Josie Nguyen! Thumbs up :-)

Andrzej Olszewski
15 June 2007 at 17:32

This is with regards to the comment by ZSUZSANNA CLARK. I too was born AND raised and educated behind the Iron Curtain (Poland). I'm not sure when Zsuzsanna left Hungary, but it must have been very early in her life, for her apparent nostalgia for the welfare of socialism (read: mediocrity for all) sounds like a piece of old-fashined commie propaganda or even - as her ideological comrads would put it - provocation. And to anyone who has spent more than a day in a Soviet Bloc country will find her longing for "free" healthcare and housing an insult.

jim aubrey
16 June 2007 at 16:16

If you substitute the word Nazi for Communist you see the absurdity of nostalgic apologists. There are arguments to be made for Nazi Germany's revitalization during the 1930's. But, there is an elephant in the room, and these apologists would look to opening a window. We could sure use George Orwell about now.

www.9323610.812.ru
16 June 2007 at 23:55

I lived in communist country,me and my friends were sure in future,and we are afraided of US nuclear missiles.Because US politics was always agressive after Nazi Germany.

We were happy than we live free country.I understand that communist system was not ideal,but most almost all people lived in their own flats.Communist system had and pluses and minuses.It`s life.

You want to say that democratic system is perfect,may be.But all the World see how US and Great Britain made new "cocaine" war in Iraq,it`s democratic countries but they work like Nazi Germany

http://www.nemtyrev.narod.ru

TjOC
23 June 2007 at 21:31

A Chairde,

PMcNamara questions whether Zsuzanna refusal to pander to simplistic and crude anti-communist historiography would be shared by her compatriots in the Ukraine. For refusing to admit that everything done by socialist regimes was "bad" and some of it had positive benefit to the masses, she is attacked.

I wonder if we can ever expect such honesty from those who still champion the poster children of anti-communism - those violent reactionaries who were essentially motivated by parochial peasant hatreds of anti-modernity and anti-semitism. Funny that the triumph of "democratic"(TM) forces in the former socialist bloc resulted in the negation of democratic content from those societies.

When the neocons insist on using crude phrases such as "communist regime" etc it reveals their refusal to examine their enemy in an honest way. The regimes that claimed to be building socialism are a far cry from their goal, and the difficulties of this were well known by Bolshevik leaders from the beginning of the revolutionary period - hardly a state secret.

Is míse le meas,

Tj O Conchúir

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