Syria: up to 100 dead in "new massacre"
What next for the conflict-torn country?
By Samira Shackle Published 07 June 2012 9:14
Last week, the Houla massacre shocked the world. In one of the worst moments of the Syrian war so far, 108 people – at least 49 of whom were children – were murdered by state-sponsored militia, who went from house to house slitting their throats or shooting them in the head.
It was clear at the time that this was not the first massacre Syria had seen, and nor would it be the last. However, the extremity of the incident seemed to mark a watershed in the escalation of the protracted and bloody conflict. That appears to have been borne out, with reports today of a “new massacre” of men, women and children, this time in Mazraat al-Qabeer, a small village near the city of Hama.
According to a spokesman for the opposition group, the Syrian National Council, 100 people were killed, including 20 women and 20 children. The British-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights separately reported 87 deaths. While the lack of media access to Syria makes it difficult to independently verify the facts, there is little doubt that something happened here. The regime says that the military killed “terrorists”, but denied that a massacre took place. It appeared to blame the opposition for the killings, with state media reporting that terrorist groups had committed a “heinous crime”.
The opposition, however, claim that the village came under heavy tank fire, before shabiha (state-sponsored militia) fighters took to the ground, shooting, stabbing and burning people to death. The BBC quotes one activist from the area:
They executed [nearly] every person in the village. Very few numbers could flee. The majority were slaughtered with knives and in a horrible and ugly way.
Graphic videos and images of charred corpses are proliferating online.
This tragedy comes as the United Nations’ special envoy, Kofi Annan, returns from Damascus to address the General Assembly in New York about the progress of his peace plan for Syria. It would be difficult to argue that the plan has been anything but a failure.
Where does this leave the west? Inevitably, more atrocities will lead to further calls for military intervention from the west. Yet, as a New Statesman leader pointed out last week, this is fraught with difficulties. The opposition is by no means united in calling for western intervention, while a substantial percentage of the population unambiguously supports President Bashar al-Assad. Elsewhere, the on-going bloodshed in Libya acts as a living reminder of the dangers of military action. There is also the risk of triggering full blown civil war, as the conflict hardens along sectarian lines, compounded by the cold war being waged between Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Qatar.
After the Houla massacre, Fawaz Gerges argued that military action remained unlikely:
Atrocities could make military intervention more likely, but the west, and particularly the US, believes that the disadvantages of intervention (increased carnage and a region-wide war) outweigh the advantages of saving civilian lives.
Already, up to 12,600 lives have been lost during the 15 month conflict, with comparisons being drawn to the early stages of Lebanon’s 15 year civil war. If the UN has any real hope of achieving its aim of a negotiated settlement, Russia must come on side. The question is: how many more massacres will it take for something to change for the better?
UPDATE 3pm:
The chief of the UN monitoring mission, General Robert Mood, has said that Syrian troops blocked UN observers from visiting the site of the massacre: "They are being stopped at Syrian army checkpoints and in some cases turned back. Some of our patrols are being stopped by civilians in the area." The Syrian government said this was "absolutely baseless" and accused rebels of carrying out the massacre to try and garner international attention.
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131 comments
Well there we go again, yet another thread taken over by the right nut jobs from left and right Jew and Muslim, who totally turn any subject into a crusade of hate the make the Old Crusaders look moderate. It's about time you, The NewStatesman banned the lot of them.
Of course, nobody has a copyright on massacre. Whether it was massacre perpetrated by Jews, such as the burning of the Christians of Najran by Yusuf As'ar or the slaughter of the Muslim population of Deir Yassin by the Zionist Irgun, massacre plus by the barbarous Crusaders who cannabalised their victims, massacre indiscriminate by the Khmer Rouge's of just about anybody, Catholic Isabella's slaughter or convert policy applied to Muslims and Jews or Hitler's massacre of everything he deemed inferior. Zionists though would want us to believe that they own the market when it comes to victim-hood and that their suffering is so unique as to justify the massacre and persecution of others.
'Hitler's massacre of everything he deemed inferior.'
Yes, but that didn't apply to Muslims did it? We remember the Mufti who was Hitler's ally and who called for the total extermination of the Jews. He went to Berlin and met Hitler, urging Hitler (who needed no urging) to finish of the Jews.
Yet, Hitler regarded the Muslims as Untermenschen and used the Mufti. for his own purposes.
Nice try, Silican.
The Grand Mufti was one man and what did he do for the Axis War effort? Compare and contrast him with the hundreds of thosands of Muslims who fought on the Allied side and who helped achieve the victory that saved Jews from total extermination.
Of course, Islamists would rather you forgot about the pogroms against Jews they have commited: The murders of women and children in Hebron in 1929: 67 Jews were slaughtered and acts of barbaric savagery were done to them:
'On Friday, August 23, 1929, that tranquility was lost. Arab youths started throwing rocks at the yeshiva students. That afternoon, one student, Shmuel Rosenholtz, went to the yeshiva alone. Arab rioters later broke in and killed him, and that was only the beginning.
Friday night, Rabbi Ya’acov Slonim’s son invited any fearful Jews to stay in his house. The rabbi was highly regarded in the community, and he had a gun. Many Jews took him up on this offer, and many Jews were eventually murdered there.
As early as 8:00 a.m. on Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, Arabs began to gather en masse. They came in mobs, armed with clubs, knives and axes. While the women and children threw stones, the men ransacked Jewish houses and destroyed Jewish property. With only a single police officer in Hebron, the Arabs entered Jewish courtyards with no opposition.
Rabbi Slonim, who had tried to shelter the Jewish population, was approached by the rioters and offered a deal. If all the Ashkenazi yeshiva students were given over to the Arabs, the rioters would spare the lives of the Sephardi community. Rabbi Slonim refused to turn over the students and was killed on the spot. In the end, 12 Sephardi Jews and 55 Ashkenazi Jews were murdered'
yes JJJ, stories like these are heartbreaking and it is depressing to see how many such events have taken place. i have absolutely no idea though how this event from over 80 years ago has any direct relevance to what is going on right now in Syria.
so what was your point exactly?
No, I regret my polite response to you. It's more than what you deserve Jankaas. You are trolling: Instead of having a go at Silican for bringing up rubbish that has nothing to do with Syria, you resort to red herrings. Just as Arminius did.
And quite frankly, by bringing up these events which the NS or people like you wouldn't are not for your benefit but for other more objective people.
why should i fight your battles for you JJJ? i don't demand you sort out Julia, Coleridge or Frederic on my behalf when they post things i find objectionable. if i don't like something then i comment on it. simples.
as it happens all that Silican said was that Jews do not own the copyright on victimhood. and as you say it was off topic, so there is no need to respond. so why did you bother?
and on and on we can go, playing your favourite game of 'anything but the topic under debate'. any chance of your solution to this Syrian crisis? you claimed to have ideas, but after many days of waiting all i see is you pratting about giving history lessons, though none about Syria....
well..?
Jankaas, The post was a response to the above poster. For a fuller explanation, see my response to Arminius. I'm not being rude, it's just that Arminius posted before you.
What really is the point in recounting this atrocity story from early last century? I could list some of the atrocities committed by Jewish terrorists from the Lehi and Irgun of which there is no shortage but the point is that savage killing is not the sole preserve of Arabs.
If you think that the Israelis do not hero worship their terrorists in the way that many Arab groups do, find out why the village of Ramat Raziel is so named.
This is classic trolling. Thing is, you are intelligent enough to know that: The poster above went on a propaganda spree recounting some event with Jews and Christians which did or didn't occur 1000 years ago. And he also mentioned the crime of Deir Yassin.
Yet, you are offended that the pogroms against Jews by Muslims is brought up. I didn't bring up history, the poster did. And this is also a response to your post about the Jews being given refuge in Ottoman Turkey. Since you can raise history, others can too.
You see, unless someone brings up Hebron, Zefat and others, people will be unaware of historical events that may influence them. Since I don't expect you or the NS to bring up these events, I did so.
And yes, the Stern gang were terrorists. But Raziel was killed on a mission fighting on behalf of the British Army. No doubt in your mind, defending Mandatory Palestine against allies of Nazi Germany is the greatest crime. But that's your view.
Classic trolling my a*se. I have come across enough Zionists to know that they like to bring up the crimes committed against Jews whilst ignoring, excusing or denying the crimes they have committed. The original poster stated that "of course, nobody has a copyright on massacre", which is true and should be borne in mind by certain rabid anti-Muslim posters wallowing in the bloodshed in Syria.
Raziel was a violent killer who met his end doing something useful for the Allied War effort. Good that he died doing this as no doubt he would have turned on the British later but the mission he was killed undertaking is not the reason he is celebrated in Israel. The killers of the Lehi and Irgun, including those who blew up the King David Hotel have all been decorated by the Israeli State.
Here's what the propagandists would rathe you didn't know:
The pogrom of Safed in 1929:
'David Hacohen was a resident of Safed and witnessed the aftermath of the Safed pogrom. He documented his observations in his diary.
"We set out on Saturday morning. . . I could not believe my eyes. . . I met some of the town's Jewish elders, who fell on my neck weeping bitterly. We went down alleys and steps to the old town. Inside the houses I saw the mutilated and burned bodies of the victims of the massacre, and the burned body of a woman tied to the grille of a window. Going from house to house, I counted ten bodies that had not yet been collected. I saw the destruction and the signs of fire. Even in my grimmest thoughts I had not imagined that this was how I would find Safed where "calm prevailed."
The local Jews gave me a detailed description of how the tragedy had started. The pogrom began on the afternoon of Thursday, August 29, and was carried out by Arabs from Safed and from the nearby villages, armed with weapons and tins of kerosene. Advancing on the street of the Sefardi Jews from Kfar Meron and Ein Zeitim, they looted and set fire to houses, urging each other on to continue with the killing. They slaughtered the schoolteacher, Aphriat, together with his wife and mother, and cut the lawyer, Toledano, to pieces with their knives. Bursting into the orphanages, they smashed the children's heads and cut off their hands. I myself saw the victims. Yitshak Mammon, a native of Safed who lived with an Arab family, was murdered with indescribable brutality: he was stabbed again and again, until his body became a bloody sieve, and then he was trampled to death. Throughout the whole pogrom the police did not fire a single shot'
I see the zionist whackos are out in force, publshing and copying their usual bile. Frankly JJJ whay you post is sheer unadulterated bull Do you really think anybody cares about what you say. Go back to you AIPAC freaks
Well, Jankaas, are you going to comment on what this poster has written? Or are you going to play your parochial game as per usual.
just reading what some of these fanatical Islamists have posted here I'm beginning to think the crusaders had a point.
These "Crusaders" you admire routinely massacred civilian populations in the Levant during the crusades making no distinction between Muslims and Jews. Crusaders returning from the Holy Land also indulged themselves with pogroms against Jews in Western Europe eventually leading to the expulsion of Jews from many countries in Europe. Most of these Jews found sanctuary in the Ottoman Empire. The only point here is on top of your head.
Thus spake the defender of the Waffen-SS conscripts on the Denis McShane thread. Thus spake the exonerator of Waffen-SS conscripts.
Your highpocrisy knows no bounds. Thus spake the defender of the Gaza war where 1400 men, women and children were massacred by Israeli brutes and cowards, hiding in aeroplanes and tanks.
Denis "I love Zionism" McShane (the man who would attend the opening of an envelope so long as he could claim for it on his expenses) is as ill-informed as you are.
" The Baltic Waffen-SS Units (Baltic Legions) are to be considered as separate and distinct in purpose, ideology, activities, and qualifications for membership from the German SS, and therefore the Commission holds them not to be a movement hostile to the Government of the United States".
These are not my words but those of the US Displaced Persons Commission. That is why these men were employed by both the US Army and BAOR as auxilliaries carrying out such diverse duties as guarding Nazi War Criminals at Nuremberg and participating in the Berlin Airlift.
Any more smears in the locker scumbag or will you leave the dirty work to one of your sock puppets?
china gets its energy from russia. Russia gets its consumer goods from china. Hence no need to play along with the un charade. Kofi and the un has sunk as low as you can get.
The Syrian people are bleeding because they have been killed by NATO supported CIA/MI6 mercenary groups such as al-Qaeda. This is shameless war provocation, backed-up by despicable propaganda from the state supported media.
The claimed justification for an invasion of Syria is so that innocent lives can be saved; this is a baseless argument, we need only remind ourselves of the millions killed in Iraq and Afghanistan to know that there is more to it than that – these people care nothing of the rights and well-being of innocent people trying to go about their daily lives.
An invasion of Syria – failing that the incitement of a civil war – is all about destabilising the country and the region as a whole. The same strategy has either played out or is in the process of being played out in Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Yemen, Lebanon and Iran. Ultimately, it’s about subjugation by the west and the seizure of natural wealth, just like the Soviet Union ‘experiment’ and the phoney cold war – do your research.
Here we are again, yet the people within western nations still refuse to see the higher agenda, the hidden hand that is at work and has been for so very many years – the Fabian Society (self-proclaimed wolf in sheep’s clothing) is one of the many instruments of control. One can only conclude that the people are happy in their ignorance and servitude (debt peonage), yet there is the blood of the millions dead on their hands also.
Imperialism: a system that mercilessly exploits humanity and condemns nations and their people to terrible suffering for the gain of a very few. Divide and conquer is the favoured method – supporting both sides in the conflict if necessary – seeding and fostering hatred within mankind so that all may fall. Time for all to unite and begin to push back against this abomination, that which has been the scourge of humanity for so long.
The Syrian people are bleeding because they have a Baathist fascist killer as their president and the 'opposition' is led by homicidal Islamist crazies who are just as murderous. For some sicko Islamist to blame the US for Moslems butchering Moslems in Syria is quite remarkable and represents a completely diseased mind.
There is ample evidence to show that the Israelis, Brits, French and American special forces are training the rebels. What a surprise, Israel involved.NO!!!!
Since 1948, almost 10 million Muslims have died at the hands of fellow Muslims
Where is the outrage over that? Double standards abound. As the Israeli envoy Dan Gillerman said in 2008: "When Christians kill Muslims, it's the Crusades. When Jews kill Muslims it's murder, and when Muslims kill Muslims, it's like talking about the weather. Nobody really cares about it."
And as the late Samuel P. Huntington observed: "Wherever one looks along the perimeter of Islam, Muslims have problems living peaceably with their neighbors. The question naturally rises as to whether this pattern of the late 20th century conflict between Muslim and non-Muslim groups is equally true of relations between groups from other civilizations. In fact, it is not. Muslims make up 1/5 of the world's population but in the 1990s they have been far more involved in intergroup violence than the people of any other civilization....Islam's borders are bloody, and so are its innards."
Trust Julia to peddle this crap again. You ahve already been banned form one thread. You come up with this predictable unoriginal. I am guessing your standard fo writing is such that not even your favourite comic the Jewish Chronicle would employ you. I wonder why. Let me think................
You have cut and paste this before from the Danish Fascist Website before (EDL members love the site). At least give them a credit in your post or even try thinking for yourself.
True to form, as the canine in Pavlov's experiment, up jumps our resident troll. The one whose contempt for Jews (not Zionists, mind you but Jews) shows on all threads going back for months. Without an original thought in his mind, he feverishly reads websites such as Rense, Veterans Today, David Duke and other Nazi websites. But since this is a Left Wing paper he knows his audience. So he positions himself on the Left, knowing that he can tap into the wellspring of antisemitism in the Radical Left.
Yes, it's Armi, readers. Armi who heils...sorry...hails from Scotland (meh) and is here with his tin foil hat made out of the smelted helmet of a Waffen SS soldier that Armi keeps firmly on his head as he forays once more from his local paper shop to the DSS to his computer.
But the only question that is yet to be answered: When will Armi's sidekick appear? The Costello to his Abbot? Surely, it can't be long before the other Schlemeil makes an appearance.
After all, bills must be paid and fees from the Islamist/BNP paymasters must be earned.
So Jankaas, are you going to comment here too?
true to form JJJ uses the most miserable events in recent history for a bit of a laugh. no respect for the memory of all those who were annihilated, just abuse it as a blunt weapon to score petty points against those who annoy JJJ. what a 'man' eh?
so JJJ you got your wish, i am here. now what? i rather doubt you'll be able to stay on topic and stand your ground against me. go on genius, give it your best shot, what would you actually suggest for this Syrian crisis?
Sorry to be the one to break the news to you but commenting on this site is not the sole preserve of Zionist cut and paste amateur propagandists, EDL/BNP goons and kosher fascists.
You do not have to display your stunningly unoriginal bacofoil prejudices in this way; I already know you are a loony.
Are you the duty Zionist troll tonight or are the other spankers just taking a break (all that bile spouting must be so tiring)?
I will do as I please and don't take any kind of direction or notice of an utter low life like you.
If we are going to refer to lowlifes, I think you could easily win the award. Nobody gives a hoot about what you think or say. I heard you were banned from another NS thread.LOL
I will take this as a confession that beyond cut and paste propaganda fed to you by the EDL and other hate groups you are simply a brainless mong.
I take a charitable view of Arminius . He cannot help being a vile racist and anti-Semite. He is the product of a lunatic Madrassa in apartheid Pakistan and his parents were siblings. The combination of a twisted education and inbreeding is what we see here polluting these comments.
The only Madras I have had anything to do with was the one I ordered in the Rawalpindi in Saughiehall Street. I'm afraid that I do not have a charitable view of you bagel boy and believe the best part of you ran down your mother's leg.
If we are going to resort to lunatic asylum language, might I suggest you, Julia and JJJ take a break there. You clearly need it as tha ngst youa re carrying for Israel is falling on deaf ears
Um the article as far as I know doesn't originate and from any kind of EDL site and isn't where I have copied it from. As for being a brainless mong, it is Islamo fukwits like you who are filled with hate and are too stupid or thick to say anything of substance. You then try to insinuate that people who are rightly concerned about the Global Jihad and the spread of Sharia are the problem, your a joke.
When have you ever said anything of substance in your life. keep repeating your lonely mantra: I must try to write more intelligently!!!!! Go on!!!
When have you ever said anything of substance in your life. keep repeating your lonely mantra: I must try to write more intelliegently!!!!! Go on!!!
If you had read properly and thought before touching the keyboard you would notice that I did not suggest that the source of the article was not the EDL (to many big words for such boneheads) but rather Danish fascists. Why not cut and paste the web address of the source so we can all read the full article?
If there is a "global johad" then the thread will be addressed by the security services and, if necessary. There is no requirement for ill-educated bigots to stoke the flames of racial hatred and if you continue to do so I am sure you will find that there are other government agencies which monitor such activity. It may upset you to be called a brainless mong but if the cap fits....
If you had read properly and thought before touching the keyboard you would notice that I did not suggest that the source of the article was not the EDL (to many big words for such boneheads) but rather Danish fascists. Why not cut and paste the web address of the source so we can all read the full article?
If there is a "global johad" then the thread will be addressed by the security services and, if necessary. There is no requirement for ill-educated bigots to stoke the flames of racial hatred and if you continue to do so I am sure you will find that there are other government agencies which monitor such activity. It may upset you to be called a brainless mong but if the cap fits....
If you had read properly and thought before touching the keyboard you would notice that I did not suggest that the source of the article was not the EDL (to many big words for such boneheads) but rather Danish fascists. Why not cut and paste the web address of the source so we can all read the full article?
If there is a "global johad" then the thread will be addressed by the security services and, if necessary. There is no requirement for ill-educated bigots to stoke the flames of racial hatred and if you continue to do so I am sure you will find that there are other government agencies which monitor such activity. It may upset you to be called a brainless mong but if the cap fits....
If you had read properly and thought before touching the keyboard you would notice that I did not suggest that the source of the article was not the EDL (to many big words for such boneheads) but rather Danish fascists. Why not cut and paste the web address of the source so we can all read the full article?
If there is a "global johad" then the thread will be addressed by the security services and, if necessary. There is no requirement for ill-educated bigots to stoke the flames of racial hatred and if you continue to do so I am sure you will find that there are other government agencies which monitor such activity. It may upset you to be called a brainless mon but if the cap fits....
Arminius you deranged inbred Islamist do you need to repeat your crap three times?
Why is it that you Fredrick rear your ugly head and post vile racist nonsense when ever Israel in mentioned. Use of the word deranged and inbred show that you must be taking your cue from the EDL??????
Ask Julia and JJJ as they do the same thing. Please stick your head in a poly bag. Do I have to repeat this for you Opa?
Why not come clean and admit that it is Jankaas who does this and that you don't want to include him in your list because you don't want to upset him?
And prove it that I either 1. cut and paste my posts verbatim and repeat them; 2. press send more than once. Since you can't prove this, you are mistaken.
No JJJ it is you and your whacko Zionist trolls and you know who you are who post the usual rubbish about Islam, Muslims. I can see you are a diehard Israel fantasist, trouble is you are in a minority. Your contributions are neither original nor intellegent. As for your cheap shot at Jankaas, his contributions are witty, ironic and downright funny. The same cannot be said of your juvenile postings.
I am sure Jankaas does this as well but so what? I am not the a*sehole that brought the subject up in the first place you sad little teewat.
Um the article as far as I know doesn't originate and from any kind of EDL site and isn't where I have copied it from. As for being a brainless mong, it is hate filled Islamo fukwits like you who are filled with hate and are too stupid or thick to say anything of substance. You then try to insinuate that people who are rightly concerned about the Global Jihad and the spread of Sharia are the problem, your a joke.