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"Negging": the anatomy of a dating trend

Ever been insulted in a bar? It's possible you were being "negged".

"Negging": a dating tactic
Photograph: Getty Images

A woman is drinking at a bar. She is alone; perhaps she is waiting for a friend. A man sidles up to her. He is nervous, unsure of himself. He is not a classic lothario, nor is he classically cool. He is probably alone too. “Your roots are showing,” he says.

She looks round, confused. Perhaps she has misheard. “Your roots are showing,” he says again, gesturing weakly at her hair. She furrows her brow. “Excuse me?”

The guy tries a different tack. He is sweating. “You know,” he says, “you look just like my little sister.”

You may never have come across this bizarre phenomenon before, but in various forms it is being practised as a seduction technique around the world. Negging, as it is called, is in essence a trick. The idea is to undermine a woman's confidence by making backhanded or snide remarks – give a compliment with one hand, and take away with the other. It is about control, putting the man in charge of the interaction by pushing the woman to earn his approval.

Someone appears to have given an implicit promise: verbal negativity means sexual success. Those two lines in the opening scenario are both real approaches recommended by seductionscience.com, one of a massive range of websites giving advice on this and other pick-up techniques.

Here are a few lines that women I interview have had used on them. “You look amazing. What have you done?” “If your face was as good as your legs I'd have to marry you.” “Nice eyes – even though one is bigger than the other.” “How brave of you to wear an outfit like that,” and even: “You have a great body. Are you bulimic?” (The last interviewee adds that she was, at the time, bulimic.)

A day spent browsing seductionscience.com – which is full of pleasant little tidbits like: “all women will turn into whores and gang-bang the whole football team if you can bring down her anti-slut defense” – is not a happy day. It offers more stock lines, like “I like that outfit you’ve got on, but your shoes don’t really match.” “Your nose is a little red. You’re like an Eskimo.” It explains: “Negging women is ideal for really hot girls – 8s, 9s, and 10s. For an average girl (6s, 7s), you don’t want to use value zingers. All you need to do is demonstrate social value – you don’t need to lower hers. Hers wasn’t that high to begin with.”

It seems, though, that these tactics can sometimes work. I speak to Rebecca*, who admits that she fell for negging when it was used on her in a bar. “I had been feeling quite low, as had recently ended a long-term relationship, and he came up to me and said something like 'you're a bit less hot than your friend, but it's OK, because I fancy you.' Obviously I am a smart, intelligent, confident and successful woman, so should have thrown something at him; but instead I was charmed.

“Anyway, at his house I found he had a spreadsheet of all the women he was seeing, colour coded with days and nights. Do I think he was using those techniques sociopathically, instead of natural charm? Yes. I think he was terrified of having a typical relationship, and he had set lines so he didn't have to risk actual intimacy.”

"Negging" and the pick-up artist was born on internet message-boards in the early '90s, and became a vast subculture, with varying strategies and tribes. It became a global phenomenon following the publication of a book by a music journalist, Neil Strauss. The book was called The Game, and it chronicles Strauss's headlong journey through this peculiar world just as it was starting to gain momentum, and his own metamorphosis into a pick-up master, teacher and guru.

The internet age taught the nerdy kid who was picked on at school that the world was theirs for the taking. The geek shall inherit the earth. Women, who retained an untamed sense of mystery, didn’t fit the matrix. So this community turned the opposite sex into a logical problem which could be solved. These men went online and started comparing notes and running experiments. They stole aspects of neuro-linguistic programming, evolutionary psychology, and some of the techniques of the salesman – the “close”, and so on. Then they hit “the field” looking for “targets”. They wrote field reports detailing what worked, and what didn't. From this, the early pick-up artists were born.

I put out an appeal online to look for someone who had successfully used negging and would be willing to defend it, and get an immediate response from Dan. “Yes, of course it works,” Dan tells me. “I like to think of it like currency: every insult increases the value of my compliment stock - which I then choose to spent wisely at maximum value and the most opportune moment for maximum effect to make my acquisition.”

There it is: “acquisition”. The lingua franca of scientific seduction is pretty unpleasant. Talk of “targets”, “acquisitions”, “sets” and so on put my teeth on edge. Language has power, and if every interaction with the opposite sex is coloured by a certain vernacular set – in this case the metaphors are all militaristic or hunting ones, perhaps with video games as their origin – then that is likely to colour the way the people who use it think about women at a fundamental level, even if they did not already think of them in this way.

But, there is another truth here. The description might be unpleasant, but what is being described is actually quite close to how ordinary flirtatious conversation works. “Writing this kind of stuff down as if its some kind of sensational trick just gives women a reason to get suspicious about a totally normal part of human interaction,” says a (male) commenter on the discussion thread I started. “It's nothing more than good natured teasing, that someone decided to coin as 'negging'. It's just a normal part of flirting. What's the big deal?”

How many of us have teased, or been cheeky, or been the recipient of such, without thinking? The problem I have is with the systematising, the same as explaining a joke scientifically – it kills it. Flirtation is not a war, requiring battle-plans and set-pieces, it is just a part of how humans interact with each other. The systematisation of this natural interaction, however, turns it into a manipulative deception.

There are really three levels of negging users. The first are the proper pick-up artists featured in The Game, who use neuro-linguistic and other more serious tricks, a sort of mind-control for seduction, which is creepy because it undermines female agency of choice and control – but also because it appears, at least superficially, to work. “I suppose I would like to think I am an individual,” says Rebecca, who fell for the pick-up artist, “but it turns out in emotional terms I'm depressingly predictable.”

The second are those like Dan, who sees himself as using his extant charm as a basis, and simply spicing it up with a few tricks here and there. The third and most common level consists of the people don't quite understand these theories, but are too shy to approach anyone any other way than with rote lines. Those are the ones who are making fools of themselves in bars, with clumsy attempts at negs.

The clichés are no longer “do you come here often”, or “nice ass” or “hey baby”; now, especially since the publication of The Game, negs are the new passé. Some of the creepier or more aggressive users have been on the more unpleasant websites, and have used the inherent hatred of women they found there to confirm their loneliness. It can be a downward spiral of misogynistic confirmation-bias.

Dan makes one last appeal for the defence. He admits that there are aspects of the community that have little respect for women. But, he says: “at the same time, there are decent, well-meaning guys out there who want to have meaningful relationships, and who get very sad that things keep going wrong for them, who just need a few pointers about how their behaviour is perceived – and what kinds of approaches would work better; and why.”

Perhaps the hypothetical shy, awkward guy in the bar I described at the beginning of the piece is looking for just that, and perhaps he has a better chance of finding it with this framework around him. But, I feel, it is more likely that framework will help him cement the idea of women as a different, inferior species, to be manipulated, hit with "negs", and preyed-upon.

The really odd thing is that the conclusion Strauss reaches in The Game, the holy bible of pick-up artists, is that picking up women is a lonely, empty, mechanical life. Strauss ends the book in a healthy relationship, which he is clear he arrived at despite – not because of – his tactical approach. The subculture that still worships him ignores this fact, feasting on the beginning of the book and ignoring the personal development at the end. Strauss's final line is: “it was time. . .to leave the community behind. Real life beckoned”.

*some names have been changed

Nicky Woolf tweets as @NickyWoolf

22 comments

LOL's picture

I wouldn't have falling for this crap but then I was a major slut and I didn't care who knew it.

Whooo Doggie's picture

Flirtation is communication on an emotional level. Emotional communication is traditionally a woman's game. Men who are less socially adept are especially challenged in this arena. Pick up artistry is just an attempt to translate between emotional and intellectual communication. Women are appalled and fearful of this why? It's unreasonable and unfair to the men. As if women weren't bombarded with sociocultural information on how to manipulate men.

Evil Pundit's picture

Well, that whole "Let's talk about men" theme week was a real fizzler, wasn't it?

O journalism, where art thou?

AJ Holland's picture

Well, it's refreshing to see a broadly Leftist article on the subject that doesn't hysterically chuck all men who have perused dating psychology books into the same box together - and makes some distinction for those that read books with a healthy, critical mindset and an interest in understanding how behaviour can be perceived; rather than trying to find some grubby little trick to get their end away.

Sam Gisoad's picture

1) about a decade late

2) "The first are the proper pick-up artists featured in The Game, who use neuro-linguistic and other more serious tricks, a sort of mind-control for seduction, which is creepy because it undermines female agency of choice and control – but also because it appears, at least superficially, to work."

I think this translates as "Men are tricking women into bed". Which isn't ten years too late. It's about fifty millenia too late.

McMac's picture

...And finally, this piece has a rather too perfect interviewee.
So the guy, who's a master of deception, an expert in tricking women into bed using the mind control powers he learnt off the internet, took "Rebecca" home, powered up his computer and showed her his colour coded spreadsheet? That’s what happened?

How good of him to provide evidence of his nefarious techniques, just in case "Rebecca" should ever get interviewed and need to prove that this man was a sociopathic predator.

I'd love to see Nicky's interview notes backing up that bit of the story, eh Nicky?

McMac's picture

I’d never heard of ‘Negging’ or The Game til this piece.

I’ve been doing a bit of reading around the subject, and if anything my opinion of the author has diminished.

The idea that there are secret tricks, potions or rules, that one can apply to ‘get all the women you want’ has indeed been a fantasy of many a sweaty handed teenager. Such things have been advertised on the back pages of gentlemen’s publications since Caxton printed the first edition of Ladies Ankles Uncovered.

The adult men who use these strategies aren’t powerful manipulators of woman, cutting swathes through the nations virginity with verbal Rohypnol. They’re lonely people who are uncomfortable in social situations. They are the guy on the autistic spectrum, the skinny bloke worried about his looks and the 28 year old virgin.

The strategies don’t work, as such. The reason Rebecca responded to the ‘neg’ is because she would have responded to anything. She was feeling lonely and at a low ebb, and at that moment getting some attention from a man was what she wanted.

If you want to meet someone and have a relationship the one sure-fire way to fail is to sit in the corner too nervous to do anything else. The trick behind negging isn’t some pseudo-scientific nonsense about neuro-linguistics, it’s that the guy got off his arse, walked across the bar and started a conversation.

The real reason for ‘negging’ and why it’s been around forever, is that it gives the person putting themselves up for rejection an emotional escape chute when the vision of loveliness looks them up and down and tells them to “Piss off!”. “Nah…I didn’t really fancy her I was just ‘avin a laugh”.

Anoni$h's picture

Are you serious? This article almost 15 years too late.

What's up next week here? "Did an asteroid really kill the dinosaurs?".

The benevolent assumption as to the reason for this article would be ignorance or a slow newsweek.. However, that is unlikely. Instead the real reason for this article is as Feministsmakethingsup explains: trying to package-deal the PUA community with the MRA community.

This prospectively would make MRA's easier targets for criticism. But the effort is futile.

Arturo Bandini's picture

Titbit, not tidbit.

Away with your American puritanisms.

Karlwasright's picture

Waste of newsprint. Trying to intellectualise such really low male behaviour is pointless, and worse, counter productive.

Better present the case for your female readership to ignore such nonsense, and if they feel harassed, make lots of noise.

If they are up for it, a suitably directed physical attack will yield excellent results, because most men (tossers in this case), will run a mile from the embarrassment. Take a short course in Jiu Jitsu and disable them with a couple of moves in about 2 seconds (it does work !!), which would be doing the universe a favour.

Most girls/ladies I know from non media type backgrounds already know this, so I suspect this silly article is another example of NS's little biases to fill the space. Not really advanced Beatrice Webb's vision here have we ?

Evil Pundit's picture

"If they are up for it, a suitably directed physical attack will yield excellent results"

You're advocating dating violence? Seriously?

What is the matter with you?

Alex person 's picture

This is really old and it would be hard to pretend it's news. This article would have been very of the moment in about 2004. What self respecting woman hasn't found out about negging by now?

Though you're making legitimate points, it's hard to feel there aren't more current ways of sparking the same debate.

John Roland's picture

Jesus, this article certainly brought the misogynists out of their holes. Defensive much?

Feministsmakethingsup's picture

Hi John

I can see the misandry and double standards in the article, but I cannot see any misogyny the comments, can you point out the misogyny you see in the comments and when you say "Defensive much?" is that supposed to be vague accusation relating to sex criminality?

I'm guessing from the accusations of ill will towards women, that you are of the feminist persuasion, is that right?

JackLan's picture

MCMAC did you read the article? Seriously?

McMac's picture

Yes.

to summarise.

Men the world over are using misogynistic super-powers to strip woman of choice and control, forcing them into date rape.

McMac's picture

Interesting that the men this week are talking about mainstream everyday life and issues that effect things like, life and death, having roof over one’s head, access to education and a family life, jobs.

Then we have this piece of anti-male sh-t, which is nothing more than someone trawling the internet to find some saddos, breathlessly proclaiming them a worldwide phenomenon and turning into another ‘men a bustards’ hatchet job.

JUST FCK OFF.

Martha Gill's picture

You do know that Nicky Woolf is a man, right?

Feministsmakethingsup's picture

You don't have to be a woman to publish man hating hatchet jobs.

Look at Hugo Schwyzer, Micheal Flood, Kimmel, David Futrelle etc.

David Futrelle in particular specializes in PUA hate and conflating PUA's with legitimate mens issues, to attempt delegitimize and ridicule them.

McMac's picture

No I didn't.

There’s two discussions this week. One is thoughtful and questioning, the other childish, shallow and hateful. This piece is firmly in the second category.

Feministsmakethingsup's picture

I suspect these feminists are taking their ques on how to attack and delegitimise mens rights from their american counter parts that propagate the lie that the PUA community and men's rights are the same thing.

Feministsmakethingsup's picture

That whole PUA thing is only the male version of the mainstream women's dating advice industry, its just that feminists start with the double standards, pearl clutching, self pedestalising and damselling when those guys do it.

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