Sugar babies and plastic porn
What do women really want?
By Rhiannon and Holly Published 28 May 2012 10:06
Sexual relationships have always been fraught with confusion. The vagaries of love, its obstacles and its limits are as old as time itself. In danger of stating the obvious, no one half of a relationship is the same: each of us has different needs, instincts, aspirations and desires, because we are all composite individuals.
In recent, more enlightened times, it has been argued that relationships are more outwardly complex than they have ever been before. You can have two dads, or two mums, or be polyamorous. You can make a test tube baby, be friends with your ex without wanting to ride him, have a range of different sexual partners, divorce, remarry. Hell, you can do all of those things at once without even cancelling your anarchist book club meeting.
The right wing press would have it that such developments have occurred in a world gone mad. They would like us to revert to a simpler time - a time when you were stuck with the first person you’d ever shagged, waiting happily in a fridgeless kitchen for him to bring home the bacon. They’d like you at your husband’s economic mercy, because hasn’t all this liberation lark got a little out of hand? Aren’t you tired of trying to have it all? After a hard day at work, don’t the apron strings, the baking oven, and the china tea set look like a welcome relief?
Which is why the outrage at programmes such as Channel 4’s "Sex, Lies and Rinsing Guys" has been so puzzling. The programme follows three women (three makes a trend, remember?) as they, as the Mail would have it, ‘trawl the internet for rich men to fund their extravagant lifestyles.’ The women get sent designer clothes, jewellery, underwear, and sometimes cash. In return, they offer a bit of chat, a bit of flirting, but certainly no sex. In a slightly more depressing echo of these sentiments, reports have come around again that more female students are turning to the sex industry (mainly stripping) for tuition fee top-ups than ever before. And by the way, selling your dirty knickers on the internet, a phenomenon Glamour magazine described this month in not exactly discouraging terms, could net you seven grand.
Then we have the launch of Sugar Daddy locating website seekingarrangement.com, which matches women with rich men in need of a good "rinsing." When Channel 4 News interviewed a self-proclaimed "sugar baby" on Thursday, asking candidly whether the term is merely "shorthand for prostitute", the well-to-do manager of a successful events company replied that even though she enjoys the financial side of benefiting from a "sugar daddy", she doesn’t actually require the funds herself. Rather, she continued, it was the underlying idea of "tradition" that attracted her to the sugar daddy/sugar baby relationship dynamic: the male as a provider and as a "gentleman", who pulls out a chair for his girlfriend before he sits down to eat. As an entirely self-sufficient businessperson economically, she had sought this treatment because she felt that it had been "lost" from her own generation, or certainly at the very least her own peers.
We may live in a world where sex sells, and sells in a much more up-front way (no pun intended) than it ever has done before. But our ideas of what it means to be in a relationship are stubbornly stagnating in a tepid puddle of conservativism (surely just what the right wing press would want?), obscured by complaints about specifics like the qualities of porn when there’s a more pervasive disease afoot. The rehabilitation of the sex industry into the mainstream can also be blamed on how technologically available pornography has become; certainly it muddies the waters when it comes to our own sexual relations. Relationship issues have been so wrought with unnecessary complications nowadays that "my employer asked if I wanted children" has become drowned out by "my boyfriend wanks in the disabled toilets at work to my face superimposed on an anime character, courtesy of the latest iPhone app." Magazines are full of tales of women whose sex lives have been ruined by their husbands’ porn addictions.
But it isn’t technological advancement or even skyrocketing availability of the "plastic porn" so loathed by Alain de Botton that is to blame for our recent social throwback to daddies with wallets and babies with boobs. PornHub may fail to excite our higher virtues, but the illusion of choice in the new age of stripping for pocket money and rinsing for goods is just as dangerous as the shiny, hairless aesthetic pushed by repetitive dirty videos.
No wonder men are sometimes confused. We thought you wanted liberation, but now you want a Cartier watch, paid for by me? We’re confused ourselves. The capitalist system has meant that consumer goods, especially those which enable that generic "sexiness" so often demanded of women, have become the key to empowerment. In a time of economic decline, is it any wonder that women are manipulating the qualities that they have been told for decades are their most desirable, in exchange for economic "freedom"?
Selling your sexiness might seem like a powerful notion, but in fact it exemplifies the regression to 1950s values that has taken place in this economic downturn. Being adopted by a sugar daddy but keeping your job and sleeping with who you want doesn’t preclude the fact that a transaction has taken place, in the context of a value system that places women’s bodies and men’s minds as their most respectively attractive commodities. Sexiness is brilliant, but collating it with empowerment is just an extension of objectification that we don’t need. And women-as-ornaments is just outdated interior design.
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47 comments
Surprising how women are intimidated by women appearing in that off-shoot of the sex industry, pornocracy, whilst even the most challenged - in every department - men have no feeling of inferiority.
Men must be good at comparison stats, duh.
Male Airheads
So what is your idea of sex?
Gatas Gostosas
Here's a clue what women want:
Rod Stewart- wife 26 yrs younger.
Michael Douglas- wife 25 years younger.
Rupert Murdoch- wife 37 years younger.
Woody Allen- wife 34 years younger.
Geraldo Rivera- wife 32 years younger.
Billy Joel- wife 32 years younger.
Bad read, but what kind of opportunity it brings! This confusion should be used for discussion. It's perfect! It's open!
Is this article about why women are confused, or why men are confused? Or is it about why crap TV takes the worst examples of society and attempts to somehow portray them as being normal and then meeja types jump on the bandwaggon giving the crap far more publicity than it ever deserved?
To be honest I don't know if even the authors know the answer to that one.
Confused? Yep, I think they are.
Don't be too hard on them, they're more to be pitied than scolded.
I'm always amazed at the public "disgust" with porn, yet (at least in the US) we are now showing every type of violence, gore, dead bodies on billboards, TV, etc as entertainment. In primetime hours for the kids, full color, extreme close-ups no less. Even the TV news & Internet news leads with it. Most people (men especially) are biologically hardwired to be attracted to want to look at good looking people but the gore-fest in our entertainment really does creep me out. I don't get it...
@cheese
Because lots of porn is not to everybody's taste as we already know. Besides, people are entitled to have opinions, and since they express their disgust (or whatever), public debate continues, which is good. All good.
And now I'm gonna have 3some with some nice couple from porn hub, hell YES!
Still didn't answer the question... Lemme phrase it another way- chicken or egg? Is it the producers pushing extreme gore & violence due to perceived demand or are they producing it in response to high demand? Beyond the juvees, I don't know anyone interested in it. Again, I'm talking about the US- not sure where you hang your hat...
Wrong address darling.
In general I think, if what you are doing is not hurting anyone then do it. I cant stand people taking moral ground over what people should or shouldnt be doing. If a rich man wants to buy a woman a watch then let him.
The problem i have is the view, in society, portrayed by women that they are the underclass. It reeks or women needing something to moan about, taking things from history and trying to make people feel sorry for them today. In a equal world why dont women pull a mans chair before he sits down?
?????
'If a rich man wants to buy a woman a watch then let him.' - ehm, who is to let him? We? You? Who?
'The problem i have is the view, in society, portrayed by women that they are the underclass.' - nah, it's solely your view and it's about women being underclass, not 'portrayed by women that they are underclass'.
The thing is, if a rich man wants to buy a woman a watch it supposed to be his own decission. If a poor man wants to write a poem to a woman it supposed to be his own decission. Gifts are gifts. Gifts are not about money, ever. Gifts are about being generous. Whatever The Gift!!!
Some of us do, and articles like this do our gender a disservice.
Why do articles like this do our gender a disservice? The people in the photograph above are all women. Why are they dressed in such a way? And, do they carry out this service work simply because they are poor, or for some other reason?
Ae any of the women in the photograph above students?
Could it be that some women want something different than other women?
Yes, as a matter of fact, I usually want Pink shoes and Green bags (to match).
And so you may, but I prefer Green shoes and a pink handbag. Together do you think that we may clash?
May is over, happily.
We are not together, obviously.
Two, seven and nine please.
Make mine 1 through 10.
Steve
I think one area where there's a disconnect is many men are perfectly happy to treat a picture of a woman as an object, where as feminists treat a picture of a woman as a woman.
In fact they go further, that object that is a picture of a woman that they treat as an actual woman, isn’t any women. It’s not a picture of one of the billions of woman on the planet, it’s them you’re looking at . When you look at that bit of paper they believe that you are looking at them and turning them into an object.
Now I’m only of average intelligence and I can totally tell the difference between a collection of pixels and a real life woman. Every time, I’ve never not once got confused between a picture and a real life woman. And if I see an object that is a picture of a woman and not an actual person, I’m not thinking about you when I’m looking at it. In fact, it’s none of your business that I’m looking at a picture, it has nothing to do with you. They’re my eyes, it’s my body and you can tell me what to do with it.
And that’s what I think about objectification.
Apart from those b1mbos they have lined up at the end of the Formula One to give the drivers something to walk past on the way to the podium, WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THAT! If I was an actual feminist I’d go on a killing spree after seeing that.
'[...] b1mbos [...] If I was an actual feminist I’d go on a killing spree after seeing that.'
I consider myself feminist and, how weird (!), I'm not going on a killing spree :-)
'They’re my eyes, it’s my body and you can /not:can't?/ tell me what to do with it. And that’s what I think about objectification.'
A 'real life woman', not a picture of a woman can also be treated as an object. Do you go that far? I bet you do, lots of men do and lots of women too. Many men don't mind being objectified, many women do mind. Nobody tells you what to do with your body and mind... but women have the right to create public space as well (gender equality) using the way they perceive themselves and objecting to be perceived the way they object to be perceived. Cool?
Jesus flipping Christ. just noticed they women in the pic above have rosettes pinned to them, like cattle in a country show. That's a nice touch.
If they don't want to be called b1mbo, don't take a job that is to stand in a line in skimpy outfit clapping while a man walks past, like a Stepford wife coach party. That's real objectification, a man wanted it, and the women created it.
Top work on the last sentence, made me chuckle.
You own yourself and your perceptions, you can't own anothers perception, anyway, I bet you don't stand in a line every other Sunday clapping a man who can drive fast, so you're probably alright.
I love porn !!!!!
Is it really such a problem?
I'm delighted when any woman gets what she wants: seriously, who wouldn't be?
It's women being given all the things they don't want, from closed-off opportunities and slut-shaming and pervasive body-hate propaganda, all the way down to 'trapped' relationships, abuse, and violence... That's a thing that's missing when I hear the sneering and the whining about women who 'want it all'.
That, and the sense that someone's missing some humanity and empathy.
Seriously, given what women *get*, they aren't asking very much. And, despite the occasional Wonderbra-induced rush of blood from the head, I don't find it difficult to find myself supporting the view that they can and should be treated as people rather than as objects.
'Supporting the view' as in actually *doing* stuff: political stuff like making up the numbers on the counter-demonstrations to the hate protesters in Bedford Square, social stuff like saying "Listen mate, she's nervous and she doesn't want any more of that creepy shit from you", economic stuff like not putting money into companies that treat women like dirt and making it clear to the advertisers and investment managers why this is a bad idea.
Meanwhile, the thing that bothers me most about 'Making Arrangements' - and similar sites - is how little money is involved, in exchange for giving up so much autonomy. Not to mention a lifelong risk of blackmail. The sums are small enough that I read economic desperation into it; and you don't have to believe in equality, or anything close to it, to look at that as anything but bad, bad news.
Who wouldn't be?...I don't know, lets start with the families of victims killed by woman and go from there.
In fact, what with woman being actual people with all the failings that comes with that condition, there's probably loads of occasions when a woman getting 'what she wants' is going to royally piss off all sorts of other people.
Who wouldn't be?...I don't know, lets start with the families of victims killed by woman and go from there.
In fact, what with woman being actual people with all the failings that comes with that condition, there's probably loads of occasions when a woman getting 'what she wants' is going to royally piss off all sorts of other people.
"Seriously, given what women *get*, they aren't asking very much. And, despite the occasional Wonderbra-induced rush of blood from the head, I don't find it difficult to find myself supporting the view that they can and should be treated as people rather than as objects."
Women by and large get very angry with men that treat them just like anyone else instead of pretending women have some sort of moral superiority.
i.e. social stuff like saying "Listen mate, she's nervous and she doesn't want any more of that creepy shit from you",
I'd expect a guy to say, "Hey that is enough of that. I don't appreciate it and I am not interested."
Note: Not shaming and insulting of the socially inept (creepy). No need to shame and insult just, plainly in clear language make your desires knows. No rudeness involved.
A woman is not a child and should not require some male "minder" to make sure she is comfortable.
I fully support equal opportunity but, at the same time it seems many women really need to grow up and accept personal accountability.
"I'm delighted when any woman gets what she wants: seriously, who wouldn't be?"
Really? Why should I be exactly?
What if "what she wants" is to hurt an ex using their shared children? Is that a noble endeavour I should be "happy" for her succeeding at?
Why shouldn't I be happy I a man gets what he wants? Your statement was exclusionary.
Some women are fabulous others are absolute dirtbags. I cannot be the only person to recognise this. Clearly, you do not from your comments though.
Oh and it is "seeking" not making arrangements. So, seriously your biggest issue is that prostitutes are not charging enough?
Give your head a shake. Pro-prostitution or anti-prostitution debates do not need such a low level of insight. here is a hint: You inadvertently insult and de-humanize the very people you claim to side with. That is about the worst tactic I've seen on the net. And, I started when the net was new.
'it seems many women really need to grow up and accept personal accountability.'
The same applies to men; wouldn't you advise a woman to grow up disregarding her personal choices? It is far easier/more convenient than accept somebody/especially a woman, actually makes choices.
I don't think an average person is ever fully responsible for their actions, you overlook interactions part. Only highly isolated individuals don't interact, people with certain issues.
People are internally conflicted because they have too much information to process. Also, they have the need to fit into roles society enforces on them and the need of belonging. Without skills to balance the above, articles like this one emerge. It doesn't matter men or women.
This artice could have been written by men as much as women. You will tell a 23 year old 'grow up', but would you be so keen to tell a 63 year old the same words?
'You inadvertently insult and de-humanize the very people you claim to side with. ' - contradictory opinions within oneself are as old as humanity. You have them as well.
"I don't find it difficult to find myself supporting the view that they can and should be treated as people rather than as objects."
personally i think that is well trodden territory, so well trodden that i find it more relevant to ask why this applies almost 50/50 for men and women. in my 5th decade and for every down trodden women i know there is a man to match the same mundane struggles.
i just don't buy into the claim that this is all beer and skittles for men, there's clearly enough sh*t to go around for both genders. on balance i don't think either is particularly in front or behind.
I agree with Jankaas.
What do women really want? Simple, according to this article a sugar daddy who will buy them a Cartier watch. The question appears to imply 'all women' is this really the case? or, is it much simpler for some women to prostitute themselves for materialistic reasons? I find no reason to believe that women students are taking their clothes off to fund their education, what do the male students do as the equivalent?
A less than well thought out piece of non-sense.
I find the idea that woman are all different, and not all nice middle class Oxbridge graduates with solid feminist politics, terribly shocking. Why hasn’t the New Statesman told us about this before?
This idea that pretty much any woman can have sex any time she wants, as long as she's not too unpleasant looking, well behaved, brings beer, etc. Where does that come from? I suspect it's from men who see women as slightly better quality sex dolls. If what you want is intimacy free friction, then maybe it's a reasonable idea. But for many women, sex has to include intimacy. So the offer of intimacy free friction is effectively not sex; and the required form of sex is not on offer quite so easily.
So what is your idea of sex?
Not all women require intimacy. That's a stereotype. :)
True. Some of them don't know what they require. I tend to agree that charging low for friction is at least badly thought over (if it comes to charging that is).
They don't know What they are stripping themselves of, because it was never there, or else, they didn't know they could afford it. Yes, afford it. If it comes to money that is.
"... as long as she's not too unpleasant looking, well behaved, brings beer, etc. ..."
who mentioned looks, manners and gifts? not the person who made the suggestion that women can get laid at the drop of a hat whereas men have to jump through a series of hoops.
"Where does that come from?"
the real world i suspect, though i can't provide any evidence beyond anecdotal from a large number of friends, male and female, over several decades.
"But for many women, sex has to include intimacy."
can you define intimacy just so we can see if it's an exclusively female requirement?
To be perfectly honest, I think porn takes too much flak.
There are lots of us guys in the world who find it really hard to pull, and much, much harder than most women. Most of the women I know, regardless of their looks, their intelligence, their charm, have no problem getting sex, whenever they feel like it. Not so with most men I know, even the charming, bright, handsome ones.
Porn provides an outlet for pent-up sexual tension, it makes people reflect on sex, it has something for every taste (I'd argue it's uniquely tolerant, due to the fact that it's 100% commercial. Whatever sells, is made.).
I know there are problems with porn, most notably emotional problems amongst performers, which are exacerbated by having sex for money, with people you might not fancy.
But amongst porn consumers, I doubt there are that many problems. Restricting access to porn, or rather, to sexual gratification, seems to be much more dangerous, only look to fundamentalist religions for proof of it. Cardinals abusing choir-boys, islamists blowing themselves and others up to get the 72 virgins, etc.
Porn is certainly flawed, but I think calling it "filth" that must be removed from society is a great misunderstanding.
today the girls ask "What do women really want?" yet fail to provide anything approaching an answer to this conundrum. how underwhelming.
Several billion humans on earth = several billion ways of defining the ideal relationship/s.
As a woman, I'm not offended or threatened by other women wanting to take on a more submissive role in a relationship even though it doesn't appeal to me. If it works for you, great, I wish you all the best and hope you find a complementary partner.
But if this is enough to confuse people into thinking that we should all stick to those roles, then what is going on? Why are people so confused? I'm confused about why people are confused.
Good read(?) but truly shocking to me (shock scale beyond PornHub loads).
I'm shocked. I'm not easily shocked, but this is beyond my recognition.
Rhiannon, what do you really want?
Holly, what do you really want?
'No wonder men are sometimes confused. We thought you wanted liberation, but now you want a Cartier watch, paid for by me?'
No wonder women are sometimes confused. We thought you wanted liberation, but now you want to fund a Cartier watch?
How does a gift (no matter of its price) relate to the above? Does it relate at all?
ooops sorry, it was so slow I thought it hadn't worked :(
removed
I think you mean "conflating" not "collating" in the last but one sentence ?