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No EU member state should be honouring members of the biggest Jew-killing machine in world history.
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Tags: Holocaust Protest
Oh come on now Arminius, I had actually began to believe that you and JJ were showing the buds of a bit of understanding toward each other.
Lets all try a bit of peace and love with the exception of Mike.
Arminius, I pity any pig that has to pass through your digestive system.
Sorry - http://davidaslindsay.blogspot.com/2012/03/how-pro-eu-are-lib-dems-reall...
And on the contrary, JJ, I never cease to be amazed at my own clarity. Seriously, at least compared with a Eurofederalist who objects to Far Right influence. On that and many other issues, this magazine has a copy of my recent book with its commendations by figures such as Maurice Glasman and Bryan Gould, a book which this magazine would be more than welcome to review.
Stuart, you do your thing and stop trying to sound like a troll. On that, I would hope Arminius would agree with me (it really pained me to write the last part).
I do agree with you but for others to blame us in the form of Churchill is ridiculous, what was he to do? send our exhausted forces on against the Russians without any support from the Yanks, that would have soon be over and they would have occupied far more of Europe than they did.
That doesn't excuse marchers celebrating the SS nor the comments of halfwits like mike or the inane pompous stupidity of David Lindsay.
@David Lindsay: do you feel the need to spout your incoherent musings on EVERY thread? Ditto with regard to talking up your book which you did on at least one other thread.
The points you make have nothing whatsoever to do with the original article ie this thread. But you couldn't contain yourself could you?
Small mercies that you didn't use this thread as a handle for your views on Zionism.
And for that we have to be thankful.
Well, since you raise the subject of Zionism...
But no, I shan't. Not this time. There is in fact a reference to it in an earlier comment of mine.
Of course my comments about the British allies of parties such as this one, about how Latvia (among other places) was signed over by Churchill from Hitler to Stalin and suffered equally under both, about how MacShane and Company strongly supported SS revivalists in Yugoslavia in the 1990s, and about Far Right influence over our affairs through MacShane's beloved EU, are pertinent to this thread.
You either don't agree with my comments, or you can't understand them. Probably a bit of both. You are not used to being disagreed with, but you are used to always being the cleverest man in the room, although my mind boggles as to which room that must be. Perhaps you would be happier on popbitch?
@ David Lindsay
Now, I've never attended university, I have an engineering trade background yet I have only occasional difficulty reading Hitchens and Dawkins.
I too can prattle on about (engineering) technicalities but people generally get the gist of it.
You sir, on the other hand, seem to write in the pseudo-intellectual style of a post-modernist, designed to bamboozle and thus create an air of psuedo-authority
Your style shifts focus from one thought to the next, as if based on the assumption that every reader shares your seemingly deep and innate insight into Euro-politics... or that many even care since it's got sweet fanny-adams to do with this article as it is presented at the mundane level.
For the life of me I cannot see what your point is among all of the hubris written above.
Please get to the point, succinctly, if you have one.
Members of the Latvian Legion involved in atrocities against civilians (regardless of whether they were Jews or non-Jews) were in the minority in the unit and did not commit these crimes whilst in the unit. At the end of WW2 the allies recognised the special status of the Baltic Waffen-SS units and they were not lumped in with the rest of the SS as members of an illegal organisation or sent back to the Soviet Union under the Yalta Agreement.
I take particular issue with point no 4 of Lowenberg's open letter "4. When Latvian SS killed Soviet soldiers, they allowed Nazis on the western front to kill British and American soldiers in turn and thus made it possible for Auschwitz and other concentration camps to continue their heinous crimes against humanity". What would Lowenberg have done as a Latvian who had seen their country forcibly incorporated into the Soviet Union and seen thousands of Latvians killed or carted off to the Gulags? When these Latvian soldiers (not all were in the SS) killed Red Army soldiers they were doing so to defend their homeland as they saw it not to allow "Nazis" to kill Allied soldiers or facilitate the holocaust. This was not what they were fighting for and indeed many of thesse soldiers deserted from the Waffen SS and continued to fight the Soviets into the 1950s. Aside from the tone, some of the letter is historically inaccurate. The claim that the 15th Division was the most decorated out of all Himmler's SS divisions is simply untrue, it was not even the most highly decorated out of the two Latvian Waffen-SS Divisions. Lowenberg has her own agenda as her on going campaign against the commemorative marches and poorly supported e-petition testify. It can also come as no surprise that MacShane is current Policy Council member for Labour Friends of Israel.
Sadly, this article is poorly researched and seemingly based on misperceptions regarding Latvia's wartime activities - perhaps fueled by blatant Russian misinformation (Russia Today makes Fox News truly appear 'fair' and 'balanced' by comparison).
The Latvian Legion fought neither for Germany nor the Nazi Party, but for a free Latvia. Free from the Soviets and, ultimately, free from Germany. Latvia suffered greatly under Soviet Occupation 1940-41 and even though Germany had previously sold Latvia out (the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact) it was seen as the means for regaining independence.
Oberführer Adolf Ax, the (German) commander of the 15th Waffen-SS Division on 27 January 1945 reported: "They are first and foremost Latvians. They want a sustainable Latvian nation state. Forced to choose between Germany and Russia, they have chosen Germany, because they seek co-operation with western civilization. The rule of the Germans seems to them to be the lesser of two evils."
Were there Latvians complicit in killing of Jews in Riga and elsewhere? Yes, of course. The activities of the Arajs Kommando are well known. Incidentally, the Arajs Kommando numbered about 1500 at its peak and it is estimated that perhaps a third of them directly participated in the killing of Jews.
Compare that to the roughly 200,000, mostly conscripted but eager enough to fight, members of the 15th and 19th Divisions (one of whom was my father along with several uncles) and the implied allegation that *all* Latvian Legion members were complicit in the crimes against the Latvian Jews, is clearly ridiculous.
In case maths isn't your strong point, the former Arajs Kommando directly responsible for murdering Latvian Jews made up around 0.25% of membership of the Latvian Legion.
Anyway, that wasn't really the point I wished to make and I don't want to write a book...
@Stuart Eels - Are you the same SE who was so civil towards me in your post, yesterday?
Arminius beat me to it, but you have no idea of my views on the foundation of Israel. So please don't get your knickers in a twist. After all, you thought you knew my views too, didn't you?
@Steve L, brilliant!
Stuart Eels - What's to understand? Trolls do not post anything of worth.
Stuart Eels - "I can't for example forget that Israel was formed by a load of terrorists and that the London bombings were carried out by a load of Islamic nutjobs!" - So we have more in common than you thought.
You cannot have failed to notice that Zionist trolls resort to insults and provocations when they realise that they know little about the subject.
Eduards - "Anyway, that wasn't really the point I wished to make and I don't want to write a book" - The book has already been written; Latvian Legion by Artur Silgailis.
Whilst I can only agree with the sentiment of your post I would take issue with the numbers quoted for the 2 Latvian W-SS Divisions. The 200,000 would be nearer to the figure for all Latvian in German service including schoolboy Flakhelfers. Latvian Legion has become something of a generic term for all of these guys (and a few girls) rather than just the 15th and 19th Divisions. Otherwise i cannot fault your post, upsetting as it may be for Zionists, Russian nationalists, Communists and their useful idiots.
@Arminius@17.41 - Do you agree with Mike's views?
I abhor the killing of Afghans by the soldier in the incident you refer to.
What you said in your last post about the Baltics and Israel is baseless and you can throw mud about and deflect as much as you want: You are the degenerate.
Next thing we know Arminius, you'll be calling for the prosecution of Jewish partisans who fought the Nazis!
Since your posts on this thread began after mine, you are the troll here not me.
Is it just austrian economics that makes you hate the germans? The fact that they stood up against worthless economic systems and freed themselves while you are enslaved by the euro that makes you all hate the germans
I think my father may have a copy but unfortunately I lost command of the Latvian language a long time ago.
Are there any photographs in the book?
If so, then it is probably the book I'm thinking of. My father almost had a heart attack when he received it as there is a photo of him sitting in a wheelbarrow in his camo smock.
To Stuart Eels - I never said the march should have taken place.
JJ - "Since your posts on this thread began after mine, you are the troll here not me" It is content not chronology that expose you as a troll and not a very good one at that.
I thought we had established with the "most highly decorated" post about the 15. SS that your knowledge is lacking. It is not only in the Baltic States that the Israelis like to interfere, this is also true of Hungary. That you do not know this or refuse to acknowledge it only serves yet again to show your ignorance.
If Jewish Partizans who fought the Nazis committed war crimes then they should be prosecuted. That they fought on the winning side and their ethnic origin should have no bearing on this. Poland and Lithuania have tried to bring Jewish war criminals to justice but have been blocked by Israel. See the case of Salomon Morel, a Polish Communist labour camp commander who was wanted by the Polish State for war crimes and crimes against humanity. When his crimes were exposed, he legged it to Israel and was automatically granted entry because he was Jewish. This despite the fact that he had served the Communist Polish state for decades and was a war crimes suspect. Poland requested his extradition but this was twice refused by the Israeli state inspite of the compelling evidence against Morel. Israel initially refused the Polish extradition request on the grounds that the statute of limitations had expired on war crimes. A second request was refused because the Israelis thought the charges were potentially part of an antisemitic conspiracy, on the grounds that the statute of limitations against Morel had run out, and that Morel was in poor health. Even a moral degenerate such as yourself shoulf be able to smell the stench of Israeli hypocracy here.
1.Not a single Latvian ss veteran was a member of the NAZI party.
2. Latvian Waffen SS veterans were entrusted with guarding the NAZI war criminals awaiting trial at Nuremberg in 1945 to 1946.
3. USA government has clearly stated the Latvian Legion to be a distinct entity and not associated with the crimes of the SS. " does not pose a threat to the USA".
4. about 25000 of the 146000 legionnaires were volunteers. Most had members of their families deported tortured or shot in the period June 1940 to July 1941 by the Soviet forces. On the night of 14 June 1941 about 15000 latvians were deported to Siberia. over the next 12 days several thousand were shot including most serving latvian army officers. For the surviving officers, I wonder if you would have expected them to go searching for the murderers of their comrades, sisters brothers grandfathers mothers with bunches or roses in their hands??????
Monica lowenburg hey nice halloween costume maybe you could tell the palestinians where to get the same get up seeing as how your brethren have murdered them forced them off of their land and held them in "refugee" concentration camps since 1948? What do you think the least you could do while you are busy making sure the world knows that jews are more important than the rest of humanity disgusting lady
Stuart - I think that we should let them get on with it and watch the combustion.
'One in the eye' - to the Russkies ?!
@Arminius, the day I start to take lessons from someone who hadn't a clue about the effect of the 'Battle 'of Cable Street on Mosley's downfall will be the day that the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
Solomon Morel suffered the murders of his closest family by a Polish officer and the Poles have always shielded the murders of 1,000 Jews that occured AFTER the Holocaust.
The fact that the Poles changed the charge from torture to genocide shows how ludicrous the whole thing was.
Fact is that Poland did not persist with the prosecution following the Israeli rebuttal.The Polish authorities lied about the numbers of prisoners under Morel. The whole thing was a shot across the bows of the Israelis to desist from trying to achieve justice for the 1000 Jews murdered by Poles after the war.
Point 1: "However, it was equally distressing to discover that the men actively involved in the mass murders of Latvia's Jews joined the 15th and 19th Divisions of the Latvian SS in 1943. The 15th Division was the most decorated out of all Himmler's SS divisions. In an EU country, these men are today held as "heroes" by many Latvians.... The current Latvian prime minister feels we should "bow" our heads to these Waffen-SS klillers."
Point #2: It was not the prime minister that said those words, but rather the president. I would not have said those words.
Point #3: Nazi AND Soviet crimes had everything to do with how people behaved back then. Almost all of the holocaust in Latvia happened about two years before the veterans/marchers were drafted. I agree that they enabled the holocaust in the rest of Europe to continue longer and this is the main reason I think their decision to fight was the wrong one. However, a humongous mitigating factor is the evil Red army that was approaching. Any piece on the Latvian Waffen SS that ignores this fact is not a balanced article and bad journalism. These vets are being tried in the court of public opinion and they deserve at least to have all mitigating evidence presented, yes, even in the above article. In this light, 7,000,000 Ukrainians and all of the other millions Stalin killed has everything in the world to do with the topic of the article!
Point #4 - Atrocities against the Jews should not be excused. Murders must be brought to justice. However, these vets say they did not commit such atrocities and distance themselves from people that did. The Latvian government is not stopping the rehabilitation of murders because murderers are not being rehabilitated. Though you don't distance these vets from murderers, the vets themselves do. So did the allies at Nuremberg that used these vets to guard the real Nazi war criminals. The governments of United States of America, Canada, Australia and many other countries also distance these vets from murderers by having allowed these "murderers" to immigrate to their respective country without these men having to hide their past membership in the Latvian Waffen SS. By the way, the men were put into the Waffen SS because the bogus race rules of the German army did not allow these men to be drafted into the German army. The Latvians did not choose the name "Waffen SS". If you are going to try someone in the court of public opinion, then please introduce all of the evidence, including the mitigating evidence.
Here is an example of a Latvian soldier that Lowenberg would have you believe was a "Jew killer" not worthy of being afforded the honour of a soldier even after his death:
Once you've been diagnosed by a significant other as a waffler and you accept it, you get to recognise this insidious trait in others.
Unfortunately, you can't cure it, only curb it.
Based on the above, David's case would seem imminently terminal, I fear.
The article makes some good points, but there are inaccuracies and fallacies in the article. Here are some things readers should know.
1. The veterans taking part in the march do not allow people that were involved or suspected of being involved in the murder of Jews to participate in the march. (Wouldn't the Soviet Union have tried such people during its 50 year long occupation of Latvia?!)
2. Though the occasional politician participates in the march, the march is not government sponsored and March 16 is not a national holiday. Why would you want to kick ME out of the EU, when I have never participated in the march?!
3.The author downplays Soviet crimes - Stalin wiped out millions, for example, 7 million Ukrainians were starved to death during the winter of 1932/33. Why don't we here more about these seven million? Latvians themselves had lived through the "Horrible Year" of the first Soviet occupation from 1940-41.
4. The vets, though I think misguided, were not fighting for Hitler in their minds. They were trying to save their own skins and were hoping a repeat of WWI would happen. They said: "First we hit (fight/kill) the red ones, then the brown ones." I think they got the order wrong, but they were hoping that both the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany would be defeated, leaving a vacuum, allowing Latvia to be independent just as after WWI.
So fault them for getting the order wrong, but at least get the facts straight in your article, which was not balanced. Peace to you and your family.
JJ - Up to you if you wish to believe the mythology of the left about the so called Battle of Cable Street but that's all it is - a myth. BUF membership was declining long before the Cable Street incident.
Salomon Morel was a killer who fled to Israel sure in the knowledge that he would be protected from justice there because of his ethnicity. What Morel may or may not have suffered at the hands of Polish collaborators (he actually owed his life to a Polish gentile who hid him and his brother from the Nazis) does not excuse his treatment of ethnic Germans at Zgoda labour camp.
I am aware of the smokescreen of BS thrown up by Efraim Zuroff and his minions to excuse Israel's refusal to extradite Morel but the stink of hypocracy lingers. Zuroff would be the first to scream foul if any European country were to refuse to prosecute a war criminal because of a statute of limitations. Just another example of Israeli racism; Jews can kill Goyim and we will protect them but Goyim who kill Jews (or who are suspected of having even the smallest role in such a crime) must be pursued until the day they die.
Eduards - Latvian Legion by Artur Silgailis appeared several years ago in English since the author (formerly a high ranking officer in the Legion) lived in the UK and Canada post war. There is a second hand one for sale on Amazon's UK site but it is £42.00 as it is a high quality hardback edition from Roger bender Publishing in the USA. There are plenty of photographs in the book mainly from the collections of various veterans who helped Silgailis.
There are a few other books written by Latvian Legion veterans (Stormtrooper on the Eastern Front: Fighting with Hitler's Latvian SS by
Mintauts Blosfelds and Lisa Blosfelds for instance)but Silgailis' book is, in my opinion, the best and most comprehensive account.
Stuart Eels - Not that I think that you even remotely interested but here is the link that Mike failed to provide you with.
Let the love, peace and healing commence.
Everyone who buys this bs should first do some reading of the talmud here is a direct quote from the talmud a girl aged 3 years and 1 day may be obtained in marriage via sexual intercourse sanhedrin 55b or how about its ok to have sex with a child under the age of 9 sanhedrin 54b adults may have sex with children kethuboth11b all gentile children are animals yebamoth 98a only jews are humans baba mezia 114a 114b when a jew murders a non jew there will be no death penalty sanhedrin 57a a pregnant non jew is the same as a pregnant animal coschen hamischpat 405 if a gentile hits a jew he must be killed hitting a jew is the same as hitting a god sanhedrin 58b its permitted to take the body and life of a gentile sephar ikkarim 3 c 25 pretty sick here is a direct quote from simon ben yohal tob shebe goyyim harog which translates to even the bust of the gentiles (non jews) should be killed that quote was from the original hebrew of the talmud as quoted by the 1907 jewish encyclopedia page 617 under the entry gentile published by funk and wagnalls 1907 compiled by isador singer oh the 3 year old sex thing saying its ok here are more spots it says the same in the talmud abodah zara 37a kethuboth 11b 39a yebamoth 12a 57b 58a 60b sodomy with a boy under 9 not pederasty sanhedrin 54a 55b it goes on and on and on and on jews are completely disgusting now its easy to get why hitler and most of europe wanted them out research it people don't you notice the increased sexual references in children cartoons and shows courtesy of jewish controlled hollywood wow jews truly are the chosen ones jesus also burns in eternal excrement in the talmud just read it
Stuart eels I don't care if your uncle was ghandi why don't you respond to one thing I say? Like churchills early books or like the jews claiming that 6 million of them were killed in a holocaust in ww1? Come you pathetic troll just once show you are not a zionist disinformation troll martine glynn american hebrew magazine 1919 ww1 holohoax shed some light on the palestinian murders or the armenian genocide of 1915 explain the communists all being jews and murdering christians explain bromberg bloody Sunday which caused germany to leave the league of nations and attack poland
By the way stuart if you want to know who I have been reading its paul rassinier the french resistance fighter libre norde who was caught by the germans helping jews escape to switzerland he was in buchenwald and dora and maybe some others and he was there for 2 years as far as I know he is the only person who claimed to have been in a concentration camp and isn't lying he was the father of holocaust denial and he claimed the jews were grossly exploiting the situation when they had in fact been at fault with their agenda of judea declares war on germany explain this mans actions of defending the germans when he had been a prisoner in their camps you are a real child man you can't even have an intelligent debate its pathetic you resort to name calling because you are an ignorant coward
I'm an Australian of Latvian heritage. My grandmother is still alive, having left Latvia with her son (my dad) in 1944. The unfortunate fact is that Latvians of her generation grew up in a very anti-Semitic society. I can't speak about modern Latvia, but if it's much like the other former Soviet states then the anti-Semitism presumably prevailed for decades after the war too, as (generally more literate than the average population) Jews were often despised senior Communist officials. I'm not making this up - I once heard my grandmother wonder out loud "Why did Jesus have to be Jewish?"
It's no excuse, however. These commemorations have no place in the post WWII, post Soviet era and do far more harm than good. Protestant marches in Northern Ireland are very similar - being inflammatory is no way to commemorate the dead.
Response to Arminius:'The 15th SS Latvian Division was the most decorated foreign volunteer division of the Waffen SS winning 13 knight’s crosses; more than any non-German Legion.'
It can come as no surprise that on other threads Arminius has made antisemitic, not 'antiZionist' comments. Armnius chokes each morning when he sees that Israel still exists.
Dave - Nice to see a "sane" post on this story for a change. Modern Latvia has a Jewish population of 0.3% of a total population of just over 2 million so I suspect that actual anti-semitism is minimal.
In Latvia as well as the other 2 Baltic States there are Holocaust memorials as well as memorials to those who fought on the Axis side against the Soviets. Not all Balts fought in the German forces as there were large numbers of Estonians who fought in the Finnish Army as well as many who fought on as Forest Brothers long after the Germans had surrendered. I do think that the Latvians (as well as the Estonians and Lithuanians) should be able to commemorate those who fought for its freedom but perhaps it should be more low key and also part of of a wider commemoration of all Latvian citizens who died in WW2 and its aftermath (including Jews and Latvians conscripted into the Red Army).
Arminius thanks id hate for someone like stuart who is so interested in discovering the truth not be able to find an article although he has the name year and paper it was published in anyway indebted to you my friend tell me is that true what nigel farage says about 80% of uk laws being made by unelected comissars? Also what do you think of the rothschilde enterprise in your part of the world? Are they not the essence of a gangster enterprise the funders of isreal?
Thank you for confirming my thoughts about you, you are an idiot, I think the saying is useful idiot. I would guess you are a willing foot "soldier" of the swivel ones BNP or EDL, you are sick in the head and will believe any old nazi lies, get a life.
JJ and Arminius
I'm afraid you both prove me right by going for each others throats, while you are busy doing that nutters like Mike exploit it as justification for their own vile views.
Stuart Eels - I don't think of my post give any encouragement to the likes of Mike and since your own exchanges with him are not exactly expressions of mutual admiration, I fail to see what has proved you right.
You may disagree with what Mike writes but to dismiss him as sick in the head is rather flippant. There is some truth in what he writes but, as is the case with many holocaust deniers, the truth is mixed in with liberal amounts of BS. The fact is that if he were to express these views in Germany, Austria, France and many other European countries, he would likely be imprisoned. The Israelis and their Zionist supporters in the UK tried to force Tony Blair to introduce such laws here but they failed. Free speech is free speech no matter how repugnant you find it.
Hey jj continue being an idiot and don't refute one single historical fact that I listed like the little troll you are why don't you and your jews leave everybody elses politics and countries alone instead of hijacking them ?
'There is some truth in what he writes'
What, like spelling 'Switzerland' correctly? Actually, he didn't!
Arminius, in the spirit of Stuart Eels' exhortation to us not togo for each other's throats: Go to a good Jewish deli and have some chicken soup, falafel whatever. It will do you a world of good.
You can even have your favourite umm... Nuremberger sausages, kosher style.
Hey stuart I don't think you know a damn thing and you call me halfwit and what not because you are the grreatest form of human trash you think killing the messenger will kill the message I don't think so my sellout friend you are most obviously a payed disinformation operative here on the net why else would you be so incredibly childlike? Here is the newspaper article written by winston churchill where he claims the jews are engaged in a "worldwide sinister conspiracy to destroy civilization" its from 1920 february the newspaper was called the london illustrated Sunday herald check it out but I know you won't be able to fathom any of it all you will be able to say is uh halfwit because you couldn't muster the intelligence it would take to understand history or anything at all as you are a pathetic excuse for a human much less a man cheers mate
Damn I forgot the article for stuart here who can't actually read anyway stuart when you learn how the article by winston churchill published in the illustrated Sunday herald was called zionism versus bolshevism february 1920 look it up you puss filled pile of pig vomit
mike - I am sure that Stuart can use a search engine just as I can but also that he has no interest in reading the article.
Stuart doubtless believe little beyond what his ideology allows him to. Certainly he has no understanding of the Waffen-SS if he describes it as "sickest bunch of bastards ever to walk on earth". An organisation of nearly a million men from 20+ different nationalities (many of them conscripts and even a few Jews) can only be dismissed in such terms by someone profoundly ignorant or someone politically motivated like the author of this putrid article.
Nigel Farage is a Toryesque politician of the "Little Englander" type and consequently of little interest to me as a Scot interested in political independence. The "gangster enterprise" that concerns me the most is the one operating out of Westminster since it has been robbing my country blind for many decades.
JJ - The 15. Waffen Grenadier Division der SS (lettische Nr 1) if this is the unit you mean had only had 4 Knights Cross winners and of these 3 were Germans. I seems you are as well informed as this Lowenberg woman. You will have to do a little better research if you want to be a smartarse.
JJ the useful idiot wakes every morning a wracks he pe brain to think of ways that he can serve his Zionist masters.
mike - 'indebted to you my friend'
Chortle! Poor Arminius, too polite to tell mike to get lost. Needs Mike lie sh*** on a shoe. Now Arminius has a groupie who is going to embarrass him.
Aminius, you are intelligent. Why ally yourself with this loser?
Arminius I know that the waffen ss were in fact a volunteer european army devoted to the ideals of freedom for europe from bolshevism the men who marched to their deaths in a desperate attempt to stop communism are the ideal of righteous defense of ones homeland I can think of no group who sacrificed there very lives for freedom and were repayed by being branded every disgusting thing that the people they fought actually were and are I mean look at the evidence look at what the jews in russia did to the christians there 80 million people killed throughout the countries in the east? All of you people who didn't have to suffer the iron curtain better thank the waffen ss
Denis MacShane is MP for Rotherham and was a minister at Foreign and Commonwealth Office