The real hysteria is coming from morons like Pickles and Warsi who have reacted completely over the top to a perfectly logical court ruling. These are people who have no clue what the word "secular" really means. It seems that when it comes to public debate, there's one rule for the religious who can say what they want to, and completely another for atheists who apparently should just shut up, be good and roll over. http://www.squidoo.com/best-double-jogging-strollers-reviews

"we are striking a blow for localism over central interference"

How I laugh at Pickles lack of a sense of irony. The Localism Bill, designed to devolve power from the centre to the local, will decree by central diktat that prayers be included in the officiating of local government.

Wake up Pickles.

Interesting wording, this competence power - "enables councils to do anything an individual can that is n't pohibited by law"

Since when could an individual require someone else to sit through a prayer session?

So the Tories are ready to restrict council membership solely to christians? That's one way to ensure a Tory majority.

And Localism: now you see it, now you don't. He quotes it now, but if you want to protect your environment from developers the national government will make sure the devopers win.

Obviously Pickles has done something right; he's annoyed you lot. Well done, stout fellow.

Oh do fuck off, you fucking dimwit Bowles!

Praying might be more efficacious, don't you think, O godless one?

Seti - There is no such law, quite the opposite. Nobody was being compelled to pray. In fact this argument started when people were compelled not too.

Gringo - Your argument is intellectually unstimulating.

Mcquade "Then they can do that in their own time and in an appropriate place."

Hence my use of the words "unprofessional behaviour (these people were praying during council hours)"

Russel - secular is not about repression of faith nor is it about spreading humanism. It is about freedom of religion and the freedom of people to abstain from religion if they wish. Don't confuse the militant atheist idiocracy with the reasonable secularist.

Sir M

In other words a "hysterical atheist" is anybody who has the insolence to speak up and challenge the status quo. We should all just shut up and let irrational pre-historic superstitions continue to be granted special status in society.

The real hysteria is coming from morons like Pickles and Warsi who have reacted completely over the top to a perfectly logical court ruling. These are people who have no clue what the word "secular" really means.

It seems that when it comes to public debate, there's one rule for the religious who can say what they want to, and completely another for atheists who apparently should just shut up, be good and roll over.

If you aren't a militant secularist, then stop kicking up a fuss about a prayer before council meetings. I'm an agnostic but I'm happy to recognise the decent moderate place the CofE has in this country, far from being clerical fascist like some other Christian and non-Christian religions. If some councillors want to pray that the Lord looks over their deliberations, it really shouldn't be an issue. It's even more idiotic when we have an established Church, so demands religion should be kept separate from political proceedings have no basis in our law.

The only people who could care less are the genuinely militantly secular like Portentous-Woo, who I guess would revel in the title.

Hoping the Fat-Bastard - EP - has said his prayers !

Test - the issue isn't that they were praying, it is a matter of their conduct during employment hours, and the working environment of their colleagues.

If, rather than praying, they were handing out dirty girl magazines and comparing the pictures within. Would you consider this a good use of council time? Would you be concerned for the women councillors there and their rights? The same reasoning applies here. There is nothing that praying does that requires councils time.

The problem in this case is that the National Secular Society, who are basically a bunch of hysterical atheists, decided to turn this into a religious issue for their own purposes.

This just highlights that fact that councillors have nothing better to think about due to their total lack of intelligence, and 'real world' knowledge. Anybody with a big enough mouth can become a councillor, and in due course will probably end up doing an important job, such as planning. Now I don't know about your town or village, but in ours the B&B owners run the whole show, and it is an unmitigated disaster. You wouldn't give an important job to somebody with no O Levels, so why is no standard applied here.
Their next act of stupidity will be to make dam sure that non of the actual locals, has any say when it comes to Localism!

Many religious people are disturbed at the way this is going. Even the Archbishop of Canterbury said it would be perfectly all right to turn up before the meeting to pray – and presumably those who were of different denominations or religions could pray in separate rooms. None of this is about spirituality, it's naked politics. Witness Bishop Nazir-Ali on Newsnight the other day claiming pretty well all good things in the British constitution as Christian (and ignoring all the bad things) http://wp.me/pfo1I-ar

"The problem in this case is that the National Secular Society, who are basically a bunch of hysterical atheists"

What is a hysterical atheist? can you not be atheist these days withour being hysterical or militant? I find the national secular society to be quite reasonable and i am glad that there is now an organisation prepared to stand up for the rights of non believers. It's just a shame that christians seem to think we should not have a voice and anyone that speaks out is hysterical or militant. It is ludicrous and it is this sort of tabloid tripe that stifles proper debate.Atheists are now getting a bit of political clout and it is long overdue.They are also right on this issue. Prayers have no place at council meetings.

A local council is local government -whether it is Bideford or Tower Hamlets. If the Tower Hamlets meeting agenda included getting the prayer mats out before every session and this was what the fuss was about then I don't Eric Pickles would have rushed through the same bill.
This is why politics and religion have to be kept seperate.

"In an increasingly atheistic and multi-faith society, a secular state, which protects all religions and privileges none, is a model to embrace. Now is as good a time as any to do so."

Absolutely agreed, but I don't see the relevance here. The councillors were not praying for guidance of decision making, nor where they praying that god fix the leaking library roof rather than council tax payers. This was their own observance of their religion for its own sake.

One could argue this on grounds of bullying (an atheist felt ostracized by this activity) or unprofessional behaviour (these people were praying during council hours), but seperation of church and state? A hysterical conclusion. There is absolutely no indication the state is promoting or spreading religion.

I agree entirely that this case (as well as a lot of others) demonstrate we desperately need a First Amendment style law here, set in stone, that the state may neither respect nor supress religion. If that happened these kinds of cases could be argued on their own merits as opposed to becoming pawns in the ludicrous game being played between religious fanatics and militant atheists.

More than half of the population (as stated in the census) are not Christian. Observance in church is much smaller.

How many councillors are free masons?

The simple point is that these councillors are wasting meeting time by "praying" whilst in session. If it's so important to them they can congregate in faith groups for 15 mins in their OWN time, not the time they should be giving to public service. And let's not forget the generous allowance they receive for representing us, paid by us. I am not paying them to chant out loud to their deities. It's as farcical as schools being legally required to deliver "worship" each day.

"This was their own observance of their religion for its own sake."

Then they can do that in their own time and in an appropriate place.