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Preview: Ken Livingstone:"The world is run by monsters"

Our exclusive interview with the Labour challenger, in tomorrow's magazine.

By Alice Gribbin Published 08 February 2012 17:29

Our exclusive interview with the Labour challenger, in tomorrow's magazine.{C}

boris ken

Click here to read extracts from Jemima Khan's interview with Boris Johnson

For this week's issue of the New Statesman (on newsstands tomorrow), Jemima Khan interviewed -- on the same day -- both of the leading contenders for the 2012 London mayoral election: the incumbent, Boris Johnson, and the inaugural mayor, Ken Livingstone.

Here are some edited from Khan's breakfast with the Labour challenger.

Ken on Boris:

I think he has real ability, real intelligence, and he just never achieves his potential with it. It is why I think in the end he won't be prime minister . . . I don't think he has really got a solid ideological brain, like [George] Osborne or [William] Hague. It is very hard to find anything in Boris's career that he's serious about. He just loves life too much to really succeed as a politician.

Ken on Thatcher:

Clinically insane.

I am not going to watch it [The Iron Lady]. I do not want to feel sympathy for her. I feel sympathy for the people whose lives she destroyed.

Ken on bankers' bonuses:

In the time I was mayor, I used to do meetings with City bankers and I'd often open by saying, 'This isn't the world I would have created . . .' [Bankers' bonuses are] like penis extensions, among a small league of men - mine is bigger than yours.

. . . The world is run by monsters and you have to deal with them. Some of them run countries, some of them run banks, some of them run news corporations.

Ken on his private life:

We [Boris and I] both have five [children]. I can admit to all mine.

[The public] should be allowed to know everything, except the nature of private relationships - unless there is hypocrisy, like some Tory MP denouncing homosexuality while they are indulging in it.

Pressed by Khan about his use of "Tory MP", Ken responds:

Well, the Labour ones have all come out . . . As soon as Blair got in, if you came out as lesbian or gay you immediately got a job. It was wonderful . . . you just knew the Tory party was riddled with it like everywhere else is.

Ken on News International:

When Murdoch smashed the [print] union I refused to be interviewed by any Murdoch [paper] out there for - let me think, for five years, and then when I realised his empire didn't collapse with my boycott, I recognised I had to give in and go and be interviewed by them.

Ken on what he will do if he wins:

We will restore the 1,700 police jobs that have been lost. We spent all day yesterday locked in a room going through the police budget . . . We have only made two specific pledges - to cut fares, we know we can do it; and to restore police cuts, we know we can do it. The other thing will be cutting top salaries and using the money to give above-inflation pay increases to the lowest-paid.

Ken Livingstone quick-fire questions

How important is it to be liked?
It is nice, but I would rather do what is right than be liked.

Your idea of perfect happiness?
I suppose it's on a beach with a pina colada. Very cheap and tacky.

Your greatest fear?
That humanity is virtually extinct by the end of the century. It's a very real risk with climate change.

Which living person do you most admire?
Living person? I can only admire people who I have never met and are dead - because you know so much about anyone who is alive. The people I really most admire are Robert Kennedy and Franklin Roosevelt. If you know someone, it is very hard to revere them. I mean, how many people revere me, for God's sake?

What is the trait you most deplore in yourself?
I don't work hard enough. If I had worked harder I might have been prime minister.

What's the trait you most deplore in others?
A love of Boris.

On what occasions do you lie and when did you last lie?
I think I have gone through my entire public career never telling a lie. I have made mistakes but I never knowingly lied. In your private life you do [lie], because you don't want to hurt people's feelings and all that and also you want to protect yourself.

Which living person do you most despise?
There are so many members of the government I could say that about, but I might have to deal with them in a hundred days' time, so I really shouldn't.

What or who is the greatest love of your life?
I am not going to answer that.

If you could change one thing about yourself what would it be?
My voice. I would like to sound like James Mason. I reckon if I'd had a better voice I could have been prime minister. It is the most irritating voice in public life.

What is your motto?
I don't believe in any of that nonsense. Get up and work.

When did you last cry?
Oh, whatever silly thing I watched on TV. I can easily lose myself emotionally in absolute Hollywood garbage.

Which historical figure do you most identify with?
When I was at the GLC and we only had a majority of four, the Tories always demanded special sessions, hoping to catch us out. They had a legal power to demand a special session, but I had the legal power to say when it would be - and I always called it on Friday afternoon because a handful of the Tories went to their country estate for the weekend. And then I was reading Suetonius's Twelve Caesars and [Julius Caesar] did exactly the same thing. He convened the senate on Friday afternoons. That is the only thing I can say identifies Julius Caesar with me - we chose the same squalid tactic.

What is your greatest boast?
That I am still here after 30 years of unremitting media hostility.

Click here to read extracts from Jemima Khan's interview with Boris Johnson

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Tags: London Mayoral Election Boris and Ken London Mayoral Race 2012

More from Alice Gribbin

View the discussion thread.

57 comments

Thu, 2012-02-09 07:42 — Luddite (not verified)

Ken Livingstone “The world is run by monsters” Well-Ken knows all about monsters; didn't he once invite one to London? Please vote for this political liability; it will be a timely reminder why the rest of England, don't wish to see the return of another London dominated economically discredited, political correct. Ex-Socialist government.

Mon, 2012-02-13 17:20 — Mark Wallace (not verified)

Jo Oldale + Mike Cobley - so you don't think Chavez is a monster? I forgot that you inhabit an NS world where tyrants are acceptable if they're on the left.

Try to remember that Chavez is oppressing critical media outlets and journalists http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/AMR53/009/2011/en/bc1c6180-c11a-...

Thu, 2012-02-09 08:22 — Claude (not verified)

Gary Weightman & al...

If you really think Ken's remarks were in any way "homophobic" then you really must be either 1) very very young or 2) not very observant.

Livingstone is probably the one living politician who's done the most in favour of LGBT rights. He was literally ripped to pieces for at least two decades, and vilified with all sorts of insults and threats because of his pro-LGBT stand.

Do us a favour...

Thu, 2012-02-09 08:36 — Fergus Pickering (not verified)

I seem to have been censored. Let me try again. It wasn't the Labour Party who legalised homosexuality; It was David Steel in a Private Members Bill. There is plenty of homophobia in the Labour Party. Think Trade Unions.

Anything wrong with that?

Thu, 2012-02-09 10:00 — Mike Thomas (not verified)

Well, we all know who the nasty party are now don't we?

Thank you Ken for showing your true colours.

Of course, for those that place human rights above human morality (the left); this will be whitewashed because after all he is one of their own.

Sun, 2012-02-12 09:21 — fairplay (not verified)

when did hugo chavez become a monster? was it when he decided to put the people of his country first over the foreign corporations who were pilfering their natural resources?

wish we had a monster like that in charge

great comment on thatcher too ken. spot on

Sun, 2012-02-12 10:49 — Claude (not verified)

@Lox
"Red Shift, a gay tory is a contradiction? That is the biggest load of bullshit. Explain the relationship between your sexuality and your opinion on how an economy should operate."

Maybe the fact that until the other year the party was en-masse ranting and railing against even the slightest fights against sexual discrimination? Maybe the constant homophobic views? Maybe Section 28? Maybe the Age of Consent? Maybe the "Gay Mafia" slurs? That clear enough for you?

Thu, 2012-02-09 12:12 — mike cobley (not verified)

So Mark W thinks Chavez is a monster? Wow, that must be some stoking puff you're smoking there, Marky!

Thu, 2012-02-09 12:31 — CitizenSix (not verified)

It seems obvious to me that what Ken was referring to by 'riddled' isn't homosexuality per se but hypocrisy about homosexuality - which the Tory party and wider society very much is riddled with.

Thu, 2012-02-09 12:55 — Raymond Dance (not verified)

It really is time for this sleazy old windbag to retire.

Thu, 2012-02-09 13:11 — Claude (not verified)

You've got to love the way Ken Livingstone can so easily and successfully wind up the humourless bigots and "loonie rightists" of this country...

I'd vote for him just for that.

Thu, 2012-02-09 14:23 — Aelita (not verified)

" You've got to love the way Ken Livingstone can so easily and successfully wind up the humourless bigots and "loonie rightists" of this country...I'd vote for him just for that."

If that's the kind of thing that floats your boat Claude, but it's really a sound basis for good & happy governance is it?

Ken has a solid & ongoing reputation for divisiveness, effectively pitting groups against each other but expecting their votes all the same. He's not changed a bit. He seems quite happy to upset gay people by courting the likes of Al-Qaradawi who'd be happy to see them killed. But, hey, if people get upset by that they must be frothing right-wingers, correct? People who don't fancy being executed must be humourless bigots? Politically imbecilic. Actually, just imbecilic full stop.

Thu, 2012-02-09 14:36 — Fraziel1

He is bang on about Thatcher and to all those pc idiots who are oh so offended by his language about homosexuals,despite his obvious support for the gay community, get a f*cking life!

Thu, 2012-02-09 14:40 — Mr Danger

Ken promises to spend lots of money and give us stuff for free!

Yay!

Thu, 2012-02-09 16:31 — Paul Hillyard (not verified)

" Riddled"
He meant the Tory Party is riddled with hypocrisy not homosexuals.

Pathetic attempt by the thicko's (see George Monbiot's recent article).

Wed, 2012-02-08 17:47 — Mark Wallace (not verified)

"The world is run by monsters and you have to deal with them." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7585330.stm
You went one step further and actually became an adviser to one of them [Chavez], though, didn't you Ken?

"We have only made two specific pledges - to cut fares, we know we can do it"
Except as Channel 4 factcheck found out, you can't do it in any way you've claimed as the "surplus" you talk about is a fiction.
http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/can-ken-livingstone-deliver-a-fare-d...

Wed, 2012-02-08 17:51 — Mark Wallace (not verified)

"I think I have gone through my entire public career never telling a lie."

Err, except for the two lies you told about restraining fare rises in 2004 and 2008? http://crashbangwallace.com/2012/01/09/kens-con/

Thu, 2012-02-09 18:40 — Matt Thompson (not verified)

And always HAS BEEN. And that includes the socialists.

Wed, 2012-02-08 18:03 — Cogito Dexter (not verified)

The use of the word 'riddle' implies that homosexuality is a disease. Absolutely shocking and disgusting from someone supposedly in the 'progressive' party of the Left and, as usually, exposing that as the great sham that it is.

Wed, 2012-02-08 18:19 — Frederick James (not verified)

No doubt jo oldale will be equally magnanimous towards Boris next time he uses an infelicitous turn of phrase in relation to a minority group.

Wed, 2012-02-08 18:30 — Tom (not verified)

"Lefty crap" makes Boris angry? Can't say much about the Tory crap that they've done.

Thu, 2012-02-09 20:11 — Tom (not verified)

He has a point about Tory hypocracy. When a closete gay politician is caught in a lie and comes out, can you name one time when it WASN'T a Conservative?

Thu, 2012-02-09 20:43 — la potenza della speranza (not verified)

The press flop out the same old trite nonsense to discredit left-wing thinkers in order to please their paymasters and large swathes of people, against their own interest, eat it up with a spoon. Never ceases to amaze me.

Thu, 2012-02-09 21:22 — Indu Pendent (not verified)

"It is nice, but I would rather do what is right than be liked."

Wonder if Ken gets on with Milibandwagon. They obviously have nothing whatsoever in common.

Wed, 2012-02-08 19:57 — Geraint (not verified)

Ken is guilty of mis-speaking his words. Anyone who thinks Ken is a homophobic, is an idiot. Ken has done a lot with the LGBT community and has done a lot to promote LGBT rights. Obviously, he meant, that a lot of gay Tories were too scared of coming out, just in case it damaged their career in the Tory party. I think it is obvious that is what he was saying.

Wed, 2012-02-08 20:08 — C Baker

Ken is stuck in a 1970's timewarp. He had a voice in a time when things were really different. Today he comes across as uncomfortably irrelevant and out of touch with modern life. No use for the London of today. Best he retires comfortably on his earnings with his slippers and a good 1970's political student textbook (maybe he could borrow one from Ed)or have tea and biscuits with Harriet and lament about the poor and pretend they all still wear cloth caps and that gang culture, knife and gang crime are not happening.

Wed, 2012-02-08 20:13 — John P Reid (not verified)

C baker, when ken was taking aobu homophobia sexism and naked women use to sell products in the 70's people thought he was mad, Yet he was proved right

Thu, 2012-02-09 23:27 — la potenza della speranza (not verified)

cenedict

Not always, and I never mentioned conspiracy. It's just people looking after their own interests and their mates

Wed, 2012-02-08 20:29 — Anthony (not verified)

Red Ken and the Labour party always remind me of a well known piece of graffiti.

I think it was sprayed on a garage door. It read "CLAPTON IS GOD" must of been a fan of blues music. If you looked at it through 3D glasses with a rosy tint, it read "STATE IS GOD". Then exactly at 8.01 pm, some little dude with a state approved ASBO sprayed over it.

Ironic really, his state enforced curfew started at 8.00 pm .

Wed, 2012-02-08 21:42 — Freeman2

Geraint writes, 'Ken is guilty of mis-speaking his words.'

Ah, 'mis-speaking'. Did you find that in the same box as 'taken out of context'? We're not stupid, you know.

Wed, 2012-02-08 22:02 — C Baker

Labour has a terrible record regarding homophobia and homophobic attacks. The Roman catholic Blair, sold out the rational, secular, liberal side of labour for any religious vote going, depspite the still terrible attitudes excused in the name of religion against homosexuals.

So Ken has spouted lots of rubbish and achieved nothing, but actually encourage more homophobia in London to get the religious vote. He has done nothing for domestic violence against women either. He is a self serving political careerist.

Sat, 2012-02-11 16:27 — C Baker

Boris is a rich capitalist (true) Vote for Boris. Ken is a rich capitalist.(true) Vote for Ken!

Wed, 2012-02-08 22:34 — Geraint (not verified)

The whole part of the interview, proves my point. While it was daft to use the word "riddled", the remarks were far from homophobic in intent.

Indeed, again, Ken has done a lot for the LGBT community and has always stood up for LGBT rights.

And to say Labour is homophobic is stupid and ridiculous beyond belief. It was Labour that legalised homosexuality, it was Labour that reduced the age of consent for homosexuals to 16, it was Labour that introduce civil partnerships, it was Labour that repealed section 28. Labour has a very good, very proud record of promoting LGBT rights and defending the LGBT community

Wed, 2012-02-08 22:49 — Julian2

'The public] should be allowed to know everything, except the nature of private relationships - unless there is hypocrisy, like some Tory MP denouncing homosexuality while they are indulging in it.'

Tell us more, Ken, unless you want to sound like a total creep.

Thu, 2012-02-09 00:21 — Aelita (not verified)

"Anyone who thinks Ken is a homophobic, is an idiot. Ken has done a lot with the LGBT community and has done a lot to promote LGBT rights."

What, like welcoming Al-Qaradawi to London & giving him a great big hug?

And whilst the Cons don't have a good record on gay rights & recognition, it's disingenuous in the extreme to wholly credit Labour with the legalisation of homosexuality. A Bill was put forward by a Conservative before Labour. And with the successful Bill the Labour MP's motives weren't exactly enlightened. Lord Arran (the horrid Conservative) had lost his gay older brother to suicide. After the Bill was finally passed he said 'Because of the Bill now to be enacted, perhaps a million human beings will be able to live in greater peace. I find this an awesome and marvellous thing'. Meanwhile the Labour & therefore clearly lovely politian Leo Abse was concerned with 'how we can, if it is possible, reduce the number of faulty males in the community' via legalisation. Politics is never as black & white as the fundamentalists on either side would have you believe.

Sat, 2012-02-11 19:28 — Lox (not verified)

Red Shift, a gay tory is a contradiction? That is the biggest load of bullshit. Explain the relationship between your sexuality and your opinion on how an economy should operate.

Thu, 2012-02-09 00:36 — JimmyRushmore (not verified)

"The world is run by monsters"

Good thing we've got those democratic icons Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro though, right?

Fri, 2012-02-10 16:22 — Red Shift

There are many Tory voters who really believe the Tories are conservative: morally, sexually and politically.

A gay person who is also a Tory is a contradiction. The problem is: are they like the Trots who tried to infiltrate the Labour Party? Masquerading as conservative but with an agenda that is radically progressive?