Democratic Socialism were markets are regulated and wealth is distributed to the many is the only way forward. Unelected technocrats are only a small step away from facist dictatorship.

Spot on.

I'll take Good Democracy over Bad Capitalism every time.

Maybe, just maybe, we need a global meltdown to force a change .. not for this generation for whom it will be a terrible disaster, but for generations to come.

Too much wealth and power is concentrated in too few hands. If that fact can be acknowledged by the majority change will come when they reject it.

Sorry for the weekend pedantry, but surely it should be "the basic tenets of human rights", and not "tenants", unless human rights are now occupied too? Thanks for the article...

I cannot believe the vitriolic rascism being spouted by B.SMALL above.

I am not Greek but am still offended by such hateful bile.

In 1968 a French worker in his 50s was heard to say, 'I've been waiting since 1936 for this opportunity to come again. I never knew I'd have to wait so long.'

I know exactly how he felt. Let's not throw away this opportunity to push capitalism over the cliff now we've got the chance. Especially as it's already done half the job for us.

Livers, it's hardly racism. Let's face it, the Greek public sector is overmanned, bloated, inefficient and overpaid, mainly as a constitutional requirement. Such a featherbedded welfare state is hardly likely to vote for austerity and hard work, despite its absence being the main reason for the Greek crisis, not the banker boogyman, nor capitalism either.

B.SMALL - You should be ashamed for your blatant xenophobia and racism. It is offensive, inflammatory and unhelpful.

Livers - You cannot be offended by B.SMALL's writing since it was not directed at you, but you can, however, find it offensive. Playing the 'offended' card dilutes the effect on those who are actually i the position to be offended, ie the Greeks (and Japanese and Americans, to a lesser extent).

I think we have to acknowledge that the game is up for capitalism, at least in its current form. Greed is not good, and an economic model where we are all in hock to the banks and the nebulous 'markets' is unsustainable. Just like the protesters, I do not know what the answers are, but I do know that what we have at the moment is broken and we need a model of economics which is realistic. Unfortunately for us in the UK (and, truth be told, in every other country in the world) we are ruled by those who represent only the 1% and their associated vested interests.

the rule of capital and markets is incompatible with popular rule: the idea that the Greek demos could have a say in arrangements made for them by their lords and masters provoked outrage among the elite.

The spin opinion makers put on this is fascinating to watch: last night the tv news did a vox pop from Athens, reporting that "many people" were worried that a referendum would result in a 'no' vote.

@Ranting Lunatic - "the lazy, starve and die, the industrious live well and long in china and russia"

You want to subject people to the laws of evolution? Do away with society altogether, and any principle of collective co-operation, and let the strong survive and the weak perish? That's fair enough, but let us do away with all law. I fancy my chances against an investment banker on a level playing field. Don't you understand we have socialism already, but it's only for the rich (bailouts anyone?). The poor are told to fend for themselves in the capitalist utopia.

"all of them show the sacrifice that WHITE-ANGLO-SAXON-CULTURED MEN AND WOMEN MADE"

Do you know how many Indians died in that war you historically illiterate moron? Do you know how many Africans, people in the Arab states, Chinese, and others who were not white fought and died for your freedom to spout such ignorant garbage?

The "FACTUAL REALITY" of your "proclaimations" are more like the bizarre rantings of someone sporting a sandwich board and a bout of delusionals caused by severe psychosis. If this is indeed the case I mean no sarcasm when I say I feel empathy with your plight.

B.SMALL-MINDED wrote:

[quote]I am your WORST NIGHTMARE, an old Anglo- Saxon engineer,

Who has watched his country, trying to recover from the GERMANS AND THEIR BESTIAL REGIME[/u]

A bit later this was followed by:

[quote]Get yourself an EDUCATION IN HISTORY[/u]

Well, my understanding of history is that the Angles and Saxons were both tribes that came from the land that is now Germany, so feel free to pop over to the motherland at any time to spout your drivel to your own Germanic people whom you are so proud to be one of yet simultaneously hate.
Failing that, do take care when handling fireworks tonight. You're the last of a dying breed, and we all need someone who inspires us to never be like them.

PS. Engineers really are my worst nightmare. I don't like spanners.

What is ironic is all these anti-European Brits demanding a referendum to get out of the EU and being outraged at the audacity of a Greek PM proposing a referendum to his people before they embark on an era of extreme austerity.
Obviously democracy, that was invented by them, does not apply to the Greeks. What hypocrisy!
The people who rants against the Greek people speak out of total ignorance.Their image of Greece is a tourist resort as I doubt they ever ventured in the real Greece and met real people. For their information, the Greeks are people who work extremely hard, some of them have 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet.Coming from a nation who have millions of people who have never worked a day in their lives but prefer to live on benefits, your judgement of other people is disgusting and stinks of hate and pure xenophobia.Britain is such a hard working country that it has to import immigrants to do jobs the natives won't do.
British tolerance, another big myth.
And I am not referring to the nutter B.SMALL, but to other commenters who seem to agree with his sentiments somehow.
Why is it that racism is now finally unacceptable but that xenophobia remains OK. If you replaced the word "Greek" with the word "black" or "African" everybody would realize how odious those comments above really are.
Xenophobia towards other Europeans is now the refuge of racists who get away with the most outrageous comments because they talk about other white people.Why is that OK?
Where is that new moderation policy NS?? Why is it that in that policy you have provision for "racism" "homophobia" "misogyny" but not "Xenophobia"?

It's that time again when elimination of capitalism as a totally failed system is being seriously discussed for the first time in nearly a hundred years, but let's not forget, it's essential we understand that Marxism or socialism are NOT!! viable options. Both have failed miserably in the recent past because they are unworkable systems of societal coordination.

@Luddite

Who said anything about Marxism?

Capitalism is failing badly. Getting that acknowledged is the first huge step, then we might want to understand why it is failing.

Once that has happened we can move onto alternatives or improvements.

These things take time, hell, its taken 100 years just to get a public dialogue focussed on the problem.

Before I even looked at the comments my first thought was end fractional reserve banking, this is the basis of this mess, however bankers with the assistance of politicians and the financial markets have done other greedy things beside this which has increased the rate of debt and theft of the public's money, also the lack of democracy is what has got us into this mess not the other way round. Love to everyone and pay attention to the new unelected leaders of Italy and Greece they have strong banking ties......

Livers your right, your fucking right, but where is your alternative?
Working people are in the main indifferent, we are too busy working long hour's making end's meet.. to be engage in left-wing middle-class concerns.

Oh and for those involved in the protests at St Pauls? Good on you!